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Your microphone is not on. 00:00:17
Good light. 00:00:29
All right. Good afternoon. I'd like to call to order a special meeting of this historic Resources committee. 00:00:35
Today is December 2nd, 2023. 00:00:43
So may we begin with the roll call vote these roll call. 00:00:49
Please. 00:00:54
Chair Anton. 00:00:56
Present. 00:00:57
Vice Chair steers here. 00:00:59
Member Greening. 00:01:03
Member Beckett. 00:01:05
Remember. 00:01:08
All members are present. We have a quorum. 00:01:10
Thank you. 00:01:13
We'll move to Item 2, that's the approval of the agenda and we do have a sort of a side note that the presentation for. 00:01:15
Item number. 00:01:24
8C. 00:01:27
The presenter is going to be late. We need to hear that around 2:00, so my sort of thought was we would. 00:01:28
Can just continue the agenda and if she's not here yet, we'll just go to the next item and then go back. 00:01:35
After we deal with that item, yes. 00:01:43
I would like to continue item 8C because I did not receive the errata document till 5:50 last night and I have not had a chance to 00:01:50
review that document. 00:01:55
And there's some items in there I would like to. 00:02:00
Well. 00:02:10
This is something we need to vote on then, if that's the case. 00:02:14
Having any any other concerns about it 8C. 00:02:18
This is this is just between us. 00:02:25
This is 4/20. 00:02:28
Hey, Cortana. Hey, Cortana. 00:02:31
It says right in the. 00:02:36
In the documents there that it's not on the historic inventory. 00:02:40
And this is a historic resources. 00:02:44
Saying why? 00:02:48
Why are we looking at it in the first place? 00:02:51
I'll defer to staff for that. 00:02:56
There's been a. 00:03:01
Phase Phase one and two report done on the. 00:03:04
The tea house. 00:03:09
And it does meet the standards to be a RES. 00:03:10
Eligibility. 00:03:16
To be a resource for the City of Pacific. 00:03:18
I haven't seen a phase one. There's a phase two. 00:03:22
In the package here, but. 00:03:27
Yeah, there's a phase two in here, but there's not a phase one. That answers the question, is it historic or is it not? 00:03:30
And I haven't, I don't see that that question has been answered yet. 00:03:37
I was going to say that our committee deals with houses that are taught that are more than 50 years old. 00:03:45
Whether they're historic or not, they've been dealing them with any house over 50 years. 00:03:54
And this fits that category. 00:04:00
Sure, I'm telling. 00:04:05
The initial response from staff. 00:04:11
So the the municipal code. 00:04:13
Property does not have to be already listed on. 00:04:19
The HRI in order to be considered or in order for a permit on that property to be considered by the HRC, it just has to be 00:04:23
identified. 00:04:29
By a qualified historian as eligible to be listed. 00:04:36
And per the code that properties that are listed or eligible to be listed, it's. 00:04:40
The code directs those to come through the HRC rather than through the ARB. 00:04:51
And to be considered by the HR. 00:04:56
Yeah, if it's on the, if it's on the HRC, it should come here, yes. 00:05:00
And I'm thinking it probably will. 00:05:05
But isn't there an initial study that you do ahead of time? 00:05:08
That goes to us and we look at it and if we're not sure about it, then we ask them to do a phase one historic. 00:05:12
Assessment that answers the question, is it historic or is it not? We haven't seen any of those things. 00:05:22
We as part of the condition of approval. 00:05:33
After it goes to planning. 00:05:37
The commit. 00:05:40
Condition of approval. 00:05:42
Is to come back to the HRC and get that determination before the building permit is issued. 00:05:43
That's sort of backwards, yes, to be added to the HRC. 00:05:50
As well as historic preservation. 00:05:56
Never seen that before. 00:06:03
Been doing this a long time. 00:06:06
That sounds pretty backwards, but OK. 00:06:08
Other discussions before we look at the agenda. 00:06:15
I am concerned that we have people from out of town that have come here for that project. 00:06:19
That, you know, it's kind of last minute to say to them that we're not going to hear it. 00:06:27
I don't think that's fair. Without warning, I did look at the the AR. 00:06:35
And I've been assured by staff that the arena is just further information, just. 00:06:42
That goes with all the the information that we already have, that nothing has changed, nothing, none of the building. 00:06:49
Has been changed. It's it's an additional information about a lot of landscape and the trees and. 00:06:57
And then a nice letter from Mr. CV that kind of further explains the whole project. 00:07:03
But it doesn't change the the. 00:07:09
Heart of the project that we're here to look at. 00:07:12
So with that information. 00:07:20
We're here to approve an agenda that mean you're you can vote no if you wish. 00:07:23
May I have a motion to approve the agenda? 00:07:29
I move to approve the agenda. 00:07:32
We have a second. 00:07:35
I'll. 00:07:37
All right, it's. 00:07:38
We have a question. 00:07:41
Yes. Are we appro? 00:07:43
8C. 00:07:47
As being deferred till later? Or are we proving HC is being heard now? 00:07:50
No, no. 00:07:57
The agenda would have 8C being heard today. But if if we get to 8, C and the. 00:07:59
Planner isn't here right then they will go to the next item and come back to 8C when she when she will just move back if we need 00:08:06
to. It may be that will take enough time. 00:08:11
Having these discussions will be there. It'll be all in order. 00:08:17
To be to be determined. 00:08:23
Any other questions before we approve the agenda? 00:08:26
All right. 00:08:30
And we have a roll call vote for the agenda. 00:08:32
Member. 00:08:35
Yes, Member Grant. 00:08:37
Yes. 00:08:39
Chair Anton. Yes. 00:08:41
Vice chair steers. 00:08:44
Remember Beckett? 00:08:47
Five Eyes, 0 nays, Motion passes. 00:08:50
Thank you. 00:08:54
And you got Who made the motion and who seconded? 00:08:57
OK. Yes, I did. Thank you. All right. 00:09:00
Item number three, committee and staff announcements. Do we have any committee announcements from up here? 00:09:02
Other than happy holidays to everybody coming. 00:09:09
Do we have any staff announcements? 00:09:12
Yes, Chair Anton, we have staff has one announcement. 00:09:21
CD Interim CDD director Lou Bauman. His last day will be Friday this Friday. 00:09:25
It's been a pleasure working. 00:09:32
Do we have a replacement? 00:09:35
Dan. 00:09:38
Interim CDD director will be Dan. 00:09:42
Until we can again find another. 00:09:46
I don't have a pencil stuck in. 00:09:50
Excuse me, do you have a pencil I could use? 00:09:57
Not a pen I don't want. 00:10:00
Victim. 00:10:02
All right, let's move on to council liaison. 00:10:07
Announcements. 00:10:11
Mayor Pete, thank you for coming. 00:10:13
Chair Anton and committee members, thank you for your service. As you probably already know, recently Council reinstated Zoom for 00:10:19
the public. 00:10:25
And we discussed and. 00:10:31
Discussion to a later date on the skate park and we heard a report on the finances for the golf course. 00:10:36
Which actually looked good. 00:10:44
And tonight at Council will be looking again at the considering approval of an agreement with Rincon on the Focus General Plan 00:10:48
update. This is a revision. 00:10:54
Of the update agreement that council already approved on August 2nd will also be hearing about a Chinese the concept of a Chinese 00:11:00
pavilion on or in El Marie. 00:11:08
Park, which would replace the deteriorating gazebo that's there. Also on tonight, we'll be celebrating two people. 00:11:17
Two longtime city employees that are retiring. 00:11:27
Diana Godwin and Rocky Pinero and and there should be refreshments, so if you can make it, come here at 6:00 and help in the 00:11:32
celebration. And last but not least, please get the word out that we're on our annual drive for committee members on. 00:11:42
All the city committees and the deadline has been extended. 00:11:54
To the end of the month, so I'll let your friends and neighbors know we're interested. 00:11:59
And folks serving thank you. 00:12:05
Thank you for. 00:12:08
Do we have any written public comment I guess that would that we need to. 00:12:13
Note there has been some written comment. 00:12:18
Believe Debbie has attached. 00:12:25
You haven't received that. 00:12:28
I I don't. We don't have it so. 00:12:33
If you could just check in on that. 00:12:38
Checking on. 00:12:43
All right, we'll move. 00:12:46
So we go to the consent agenda. 00:12:50
But you have several items on here. 00:12:54
And is there anybody on this committee that would like to pull an item from the consent agenda for discussion? 00:12:56
Seeing none anybody from the audience that would like to pull an item from the consent agenda. 00:13:05
Consent agenda. 00:13:14
1109 Ripple Ave. is one of my old projects. I think I should probably. 00:13:18
Recuse. 00:13:24
Chair Anton. 00:13:28
Did we skip general public? 00:13:31
I'm getting to that, OK. 00:13:33
Oh, I'm. 00:13:35
I am. 00:13:39
Thank you for that. All right, let's put this on hold. 00:13:41
I guess I'm anxious to get to the hearings. All right, let's have general public comment, which most deals with matters that are 00:13:45
subject to the jurisdiction of the Historic Resources Committee and that are not on the regular agenda. I will open up now to 00:13:53
public comment from those in the audience. Do we have anybody that would list just like to speak? 00:14:00
Seeing none, do we have anybody from the virtual audience that would like to speak? 00:14:10
Yes, I will allow Lisa Ciani to speak. 00:14:17
Thank you. I relieved that my hand is not. My raised hand is not invisible. 00:14:24
I'm. I am. 00:14:32
Confused because. 00:14:34
It's my understanding with the Pat Hathaway house that the. 00:14:37
Staff wouldn't allow that to be brought to HRC even though it had a phase one report. 00:14:43
That justified a phase two report, which they didn't do. But the phase one report said it qualified for the HRI, so. 00:14:52
Now now we're being told. 00:15:00
Oh, it it is supposed to come to the HRC? Well, I'm glad, except that you don't have anywhere near enough information, but that's 00:15:03
another matter. 00:15:07
My 2 comments I wanted to make because I'm not sure that you all. 00:15:12
Watched the Planning Commission meeting on December 14th. 00:15:19
And I don't see a timer here. 00:15:22
The Planning Commission did not do as well as they've been doing recently, and so for 111 10th St. they. 00:15:26
They didn't grasp that that they're supposed to be looking at the mass of the addition in relation to the existing. 00:15:37
Historic Resource. They just looked at the mass in relation to surrounding neighborhood, so they approved the project. I'm very 00:15:51
disappointed. 00:15:56
I hope the neighbors will appeal. 00:16:02
And on 270? 00:16:06
Central Ave. which they're converting to what they call a bed and breakfast, but is in reality. 00:16:09
STR's there is no central kitchen and they get Box Breakfast brought in from someplace or some deal like that, but the important 00:16:18
thing is the windows. 00:16:23
The. 00:16:29
Building official declared that all the windows. 00:16:31
In the buildings were. In the building, the main building at least were. 00:16:37
Deteriorated beyond repair and all had to be ripped out and replaced, even though there are windows in perfectly good good 00:16:43
condition. 00:16:48
And with the original Glaz. 00:16:53
And they're going to all be replaced with Marvin Windows. So it's it's really unfortunate to see situations like that happen where 00:16:56
that building couldn't even come to you. 00:17:03
For for review first because of. 00:17:11
Some something in the code that says staff can do an administrative review even though they don't understand the window situation 00:17:16
for historic buildings. But anyway, so that's very disappointing news. 00:17:23
And I. 00:17:31
Staff gets this figured out so that projects will come to you consistently are found. 00:17:33
Eligible for the HRI. Thank you. 00:17:40
Thank you. 00:17:43
Other public. 00:17:46
We have one more hand raised. I'll allow Anthony Ciani to speak. 00:17:49
Good afternoon, Chair and members of the HRC. 00:17:58
I'm going to follow on with what Lisa Gianni mentioned about 270 Central Ave. 00:18:04
It's a building, actually several buildings that are on the H. 00:18:14
And instead of bringing. 00:18:22
The project. 00:18:24
To replace. 00:18:27
Of the existing. 00:18:30
For your consider. 00:18:33
It went directly to the Planning Commission. 00:18:36
The note. 00:18:42
And the agenda was that. 00:18:43
Staff made a deter. 00:18:46
A like a counter. 00:18:51
Of the replacement of the windows. 00:18:54
And basically on December 1st they said they had a letter. 00:18:57
From the building official, The chief building official saying all of the windows. 00:19:02
Required. 00:19:09
Well, I've been doing this for 50 years when I say this. 00:19:12
I've been doing historic preservation. I'm a licensed architect. 00:19:17
I have done a bed and breakfast before. 00:19:22
I've done in. 00:19:26
Replacement of Windows but. 00:19:30
I've done with the Secretary of Interior standards. 00:19:32
Require and what our code requires and that is. 00:19:35
Repair, retain and repair. 00:19:39
In this case, you weren't given the opportunity to make that kind of a determination. 00:19:45
I went out there and you can stand on the street stand immediately adjacent to the building and the windows. 00:19:51
You can look at for example this large. 00:19:57
That's under the. 00:20:02
Of the 2nd floor. It's in a in a porch front porch. It is not subject to the weather. 00:20:06
It appears to be in good to excellent condition. 00:20:13
I saw no. 00:20:16
No evidence of termites, of course I can go up there and poke. 00:20:18
But there is no evidence of the inspect. 00:20:22
The staff had no evidence of this report. I asked for it over and over again. 00:20:27
And they have not provided that. 00:20:32
This is. 00:20:37
I'm sorry to have to say those words. 00:20:40
But the fact of the matter is. 00:20:44
And the facts and the evidence. 00:20:47
That this decision was made without the facts and evidence. 00:20:51
And you should ask to have it brought back. 00:20:56
Thank you. 00:21:00
Thank you. 00:21:03
Do we have any other virtual audience? 00:21:07
I will allow Inga, Lorenz and Dahmer to speak. 00:21:12
Thank you very. 00:21:18
And we do seem to have a problem since the HR. 00:21:20
I mean, the HRC is supposed to be for the historic properties. We've seen several slip through. 00:21:25
And the planning Commissioners, bless their hearts, are not historic and. 00:21:34
You who denied 1. 00:21:40
10th St. because it was way too for big and for the. 00:21:43
The. 00:21:50
Resource that was supposed to. 00:21:53
Preserved. 00:21:56
You know, it's it's like the Planning Commission did, just as Lisa said, determine it on wrong criteria. 00:22:00
Because they don't understand, or certain members of the Planning Commission do not seem to understand, that historic is different 00:22:06
than regular. 00:22:11
As far as today goes on the and yes it is. 00:22:16
The historic resource on Central Ave. is. 00:22:21
We need a better definition of bed and breakfast. 00:22:25
Which we used to have because other than being 70 / 75 years old and having 8 rooms, they're turning it into a building of eight 00:22:29
stores. It is nowhere near a bed and breakfast. 00:22:36
In any sense of. 00:22:44
And as far as the Tea House today goes, yes, the Tea House is historic. It's it's been said to be eligible. Just because it's not 00:22:46
on our inventory does not mean it's not historic. So I'm glad it's in the right position here, but I'm very sorry that Pat 00:22:53
Hathaway's house wasn't when. 00:22:59
Same historian even said yes, it's historic. 00:23:06
And this body did not seem to even want to entertain the fact that it was historic. So I think we need I think Pacific Grove is 00:23:10
having a lot of difficulty. 00:23:16
In ascertaining whether something should come to the HRC or. 00:23:23
The ARB or just sidestepping the whole process, I'm really we've got three projects here that have been kind of. 00:23:29
Run around the block and I would. 00:23:39
Clarification on many items on this so that we don't let others slip away. 00:23:43
Thank you very much for the work. 00:23:49
Thank you. 00:23:54
I see no other hands raised, OK? 00:23:58
I will then close public. 00:24:03
And we don't have written anything written to share then. 00:24:06
No, we've received. 00:24:13
But I don't have them with me. 00:24:17
All right, let's go to the consent agenda. 00:24:20
There are several items on here. 00:24:24
And do we have a motion to accept the? 00:24:27
Consent agenda. 00:24:31
I still move. 00:24:33
2nd. 00:24:35
So moved by granite, second by. 00:24:38
And any discussion? 00:24:42
Once again, the 7B. 00:24:46
Is one of my old projects and. 00:24:51
Offering to recuse myself unless it messes up the quorum. 00:24:56
Business or anything else? 00:25:03
All right. I'm going to go out to the audience is everybody but from the audience that would like to pull an item from the consent 00:25:05
agenda. 00:25:10
He did that backwards. 00:25:17
I don't. I don't see any hands raised. 00:25:21
All right. And anybody from the present audience. 00:25:34
Seeing none. All right then. May we have a vote on the consent agenda, please? 00:25:39
Remember. 00:25:44
Yes. 00:25:45
Member Beckett. 00:25:48
Vice chair. 00:25:51
Yes, Chair Anton. 00:25:53
Yes, we have 5 ayes, 0 nays, motion passes. 00:25:56
All right. Thank you. Let's go to the regular agenda item a public hearings will begin with. 00:26:03
And the architectural permit. 00:26:10
239 Granite St. Do we have a staff report? 00:26:12
Good afternoon, sorry. Good afternoon, Sherry, Anton and committee members. I'm Joseph Sedor. The project site is an interior lot 00:26:58
located at 239 Granite St. between Laurel Ave. and Short St. in an area consisting of medium to large size one and two-story 00:27:05
residences and the 2nd edition residential neighborhood. 00:27:12
And R1 Zoning district. The 3600 square foot parcel is currently developed with a 12117 square foot, one story single family 00:27:19
dwelling. The proposed development would include a 90 square foot infill addition. 00:27:27
Of an existing rear covered porch and the construction of a 287 square foot second story addition to the existing residence, 00:27:36
resulting in a 1594 square foot two-story single family residence. 00:27:43
The proposed additions would conform to all required development standards and the project would not modify. 00:27:51
Nor increase the existing nonconforming features of the property as proposed. The project is categorically exempt for sequel 00:27:58
guidelines. Sections 15301 for existing facilities and 15331 for historical resource restoration and rehabilitation. 00:28:07
For the phase two historic assessment prepared for the project, the proposed development would allow efficient contemporary use of 00:28:16
the property while protecting the remaining character defining features of the existing vernacular residence. 00:28:23
All work would be undertaken in conformance with the Secretary of the Interior Standards for the Treatment of Historic Properties 00:28:30
under the Standard for Rehabilitation. 00:28:34
And as proposed, the alterations would allow the building to keep its residential use while retaining the existing character, 00:28:39
defining features and distinctive materials and features that define the house's style, such as the wood siding, wood windows, and 00:28:46
wood. Details of the front primary elevation would be retained and repaired as needed. 00:28:53
And this concludes staff's presentation. 00:29:00
And I'm available for questions as well as the applicant. 00:29:04
Thank you very much. Does anybody? 00:29:07
I have questions for the staff at this. 00:29:11
All right, then the next would be to hear from the applicant or the owner or a representative of the applicant. 00:29:19
And you have time to speak to us if you are here. 00:29:27
Do you have the application on I? 00:30:00
Sorry, chariot on the applicant does not appear to be. 00:30:05
Attending the meeting virtually at this time, however, the owner of the property is. 00:30:11
Not present. 00:30:17
Well, I heard a. 00:30:22
You're welcome to come to the podium if you're here. 00:30:24
Oh, absolutely not. 00:30:34
Yes. 00:30:39
My daughter's field trip to the to the City Council. If you'll speak into the mic, please, because we are recording and making 00:30:41
sure it's on. 00:30:44
So state your. 00:30:49
My name is Jessica. 00:30:52
All right. Is there anything you would like to say in favor of your project? 00:30:56
No, we've just we've been residents of Pacific Rd. for 19 years. We love living here. We just had two kids in the time since we 00:31:01
bought the home. 00:31:04
Seeing familiar faces. This is nice and we only have one bathroom, so you can imagine four people with one bathroom. So we want to 00:31:09
keep our home as beautiful as it always has been and and give us some more space to live a little bit. 00:31:15
Any questions for her? 00:31:24
All right. Thank you. Thank you. 00:31:29
I'll open now to public comment. Again, we're discussing the house at 239 Granite St. Is there any public comment? 00:31:33
Any public comment present? 00:31:42
I don't think so. Any public comment. Virtually I have one hand raised. I'll allow Anthony Johnny to speak. 00:31:45
Good afternoon again, members of the. 00:31:56
I I understand that the letter I sent you yesterday was received this morning after your meeting for the this afternoon after your 00:32:02
meeting started. 00:32:06
Anyway. 00:32:12
Comment on several of the items that are on the agenda on this one. 00:32:14
I think the applicant and the. 00:32:19
Approach is. 00:32:23
Extension, especially considering the need to expand and grow a family. 00:32:26
However. 00:32:32
I think if you look at the proposed E exterior elevation that. 00:32:35
On the screen. 00:32:39
You'll note that the new addition. 00:32:41
Which replaces the original ins. 00:32:46
Porch. 00:32:51
It is all in plain. 00:32:53
In other words, the new Ed. 00:32:56
Is and not only is it in the same plane as the other. 00:32:58
Walls of. 00:33:04
The new work has the same exterior siding. 00:33:06
It has the same type of fenestration, in other words, window glazing patterns, window trim. 00:33:11
And. 00:33:21
An acceptable approach for in addition to an existing building. 00:33:23
The new material should differentiate. 00:33:29
From the original authentic materials. 00:33:32
The windows should not be identical as these. 00:33:35
I think this project could be approved. 00:33:39
The 1st and 2nd floor. 00:33:43
Could be offset, say inset. 00:33:47
Into the. 00:33:52
Even a matter of inches and maybe with some corner trim where it changes directions. 00:33:54
And definitely a change in the window patterns. 00:34:01
The number of pains and the way they're arranged and the window trim. 00:34:06
And a differentiation in the exterior materials. 00:34:10
Thank you. 00:34:16
Other public. 00:34:23
I see no other hands raised. 00:34:25
All right. I close public comment and bring it back to the committee for discussion. 00:34:28
Who would like to speak first? 00:34:35
I'll chime in here. I agree with Mr. Chaney that the. 00:34:39
That the exterior building materials and windows and so forth. 00:34:45
Are not don't seem to be differentiated from the existing. 00:34:50
Historic ones. 00:34:56
It could be. 00:34:58
But I'm not seeing it here in the drawings and it should be in the drawings to make sure it gets done the windows need to be. 00:35:02
Slightly different, but if they are. 00:35:09
Let's say dual pane. 00:35:13
Aluminum clad windows or something like that. 00:35:17
Existing windows or something? 00:35:21
Perhaps. 00:35:24
I'm just saying suggesting that that's enough. 00:35:26
So that you can distinguish between the new and the old. 00:35:31
Deciding looks the same in the drawings and I'm not seeing anywhere here that. 00:35:36
The new siding will. 00:35:43
Different. It doesn't need to be a lot different. Could be just a slightly different size, or a different texture, or something 00:35:46
else. 00:35:50
But it needs to be different so that we can see. 00:35:55
What's new and what's old? That's the point of all. 00:35:59
Other people would like to speak Jennifer. My my comment is that the house itself, the existing house, is a shingle, Redwood sided 00:36:04
painted shingle which does not show up in the drawings but it is shingled. So I agree with Rick, there needs to be differentiation 00:36:11
between the new addition and the original house. 00:36:18
I would agree with that. 00:36:25
Would you speak into the? 00:36:30
Sorry, I would agree. 00:36:31
With the differentiation being. 00:36:33
But the the plans otherwise I think. 00:36:36
Certainly fit into the. 00:36:40
I also agree it's just too bad that the architect is in here so that we can verify. I mean, we really, really don't know. It 00:36:42
doesn't look like there's any difference. But you know, without actually talking with him, it's hard. 00:36:48
To decide. 00:36:54
Sure, Anton. 00:36:58
You may thank you. 00:37:00
Staff did speak with the designer, Mr. Tollison prior to the hearing regarding this topic and he did say that the the windows. 00:37:02
That would be placed in the addition would be fiberglass clad wood windows. 00:37:14
So they would be differentiated from the existing windows in that respect. 00:37:22
And then also the sighting could be. 00:37:26
According to the applicant, the siding could be narrowed or widened depending upon the preference of the HRC. 00:37:34
And that could be identified as a condition of approval on the. 00:37:42
Thank you. So I think we have a choice of. 00:37:50
Having a come come back or we could go ahead and approve it with that stipulation that the siding. 00:37:54
Clearly differentiated. 00:38:02
What's your pleasure here? What do you think? 00:38:04
Mr. Staff Member, what What would you, Mr. C Jordan would? 00:38:07
Well, yes, chair, it would be. 00:38:13
Up to the pleasure of the committee. 00:38:18
Probably. 00:38:23
A fairly straightforward approach would be to just apply that as a condition for the Siding differentiation. 00:38:25
Thank you. 00:38:36
So I. 00:38:38
Ask for a motion to approve the project with the stipulation that the sighting of the new area. 00:38:40
Be clearly differenti. 00:38:47
Does that. 00:38:51
Like, are you in agreement with that? That is sometimes. 00:38:52
Confusion. 00:38:57
I think maybe a conditional approval is a good idea, but perhaps. 00:39:02
A subcommittee to take a look at what they finally decide is. 00:39:09
As part of this. Well that to me would be to. 00:39:14
To not decide this time enough to have. 00:39:18
I'm not suggesting it could come back, needs to come back to the entire committee here, but. 00:39:23
A subcommittee can. 00:39:30
And be asked to go take a look. 00:39:33
At the Planning department. 00:39:36
Very simple and. 00:39:39
Quick. 00:39:43
So that would that would mean a motion to form a subcommittee. 00:39:46
To look at the project. But then I don't know that we are going to approve the project at this point until the subcommittee looks 00:39:51
at it. That's. 00:39:55
OK, I thought we could make it easy. 00:40:01
But I guess not. That makes a little harder I think. 00:40:04
It doesn't. I've done it before. 00:40:08
They call you up and say, can you come over at 1:00 and have a look at this at this point then do we approve the project with the 00:40:12
subcommittee being formed? 00:40:16
Make that part of the motion, Yes, that's what I'm saying. 00:40:21
How do you feel about that? 00:40:25
If Rick's on the committee. 00:40:27
Yeah, well, absolutely. Sure. I I feel fine about that. But I'd also like to stipulate the windows as well as the siding need to 00:40:29
be different. Everybody's just talking about the the siding, but I think the windows also we need to look at. 00:40:35
Yeah, let's see what they are. 00:40:45
Then I think we should continue the whole thing. 00:40:48
Then I agree. I think we should ask the architect to come to our next meeting and chair and I'll just explain what the windows are 00:40:51
going to be, though I understand that, but. 00:40:56
It would be better to hear it from him and any other questions we might have regarding Mr. Cedar. Yes, thank you Chair the the 00:41:01
applicant is present now. He had technical difficulties accessing the meeting via Zoom. 00:41:08
So if if you would like to ask him some questions, he is available at this time. 00:41:15
Right now. 00:41:24
Oh yes, please come to the. 00:41:25
Perfect. 00:41:29
So thank you for. 00:41:35
Seth Bergstein our past consultants on wearing a mask because I very sick so I don't want to be here too long. Thank you for I 00:41:37
tried to get on zoom. I just for the record want to say I tried calling. 00:41:43
I tried going through the usual process when I called in, said. The meeting didn't. 00:41:49
And then when I went on the Zoom code, it said there was a Planning Commission meeting and the meeting wasn't available. So 00:41:53
unfortunately I don't live far away, so I flew over here. 00:41:57
I did not get a chance to hear everything that Anthony Gianni said, but a lot of what I did hear, it was wrong. 00:42:03
There is no original alcove in the back of that building. That was all modified in the 50s or somewhere around there, and it's in 00:42:08
my report. 00:42:11
Reason why I know that is when you look back there. 00:42:16
You see plywood in the soffits. You see plywood all underneath. 00:42:18
You see, railing that dates well beyond what he's talking about. 00:42:22
There. 00:42:26
Original stuff back there. 00:42:28
Yeah. Any other questions I'd love to feel free to ask. 00:42:30
I'm familiar with the house and I agree with you completely, and it's a mess. Needs to be fixed. It's a mess. 00:42:34
Now the siding is very unusual. The siding is also not period to the date of the house. That house got a complete makeover. 00:42:42
If you look at the variation in roof lines, if you look at. 00:42:48
Variation of the original cross Gable if you look at the hip proof edition if you look at my symbol or map. 00:42:52
Indications in my report that house grew, basically. 00:42:58
To the. 00:43:01
Into the rear. 00:43:03
Over many years. 00:43:04
And then was clad. 00:43:06
Out of the historic period. 00:43:08
OK, now we have a new addition. Here we have it. We have a second story edition. It's set back behind. 00:43:10
The primary refine. 00:43:16
OK. So we're we're whatever you want to call the historically. 00:43:17
We are, you know, highlighting that feature, OK. 00:43:22
I would argue and I spoke to Aaron Aaron's granddaughters in the hospital. Right. 00:43:27
This poor little kid. They're rushing this poor kid up to San Francisco. He couldn't be here. That was the reason. 00:43:31
I assured him I would do this. That's why I flew over here while. 00:43:36
Currently having the. 00:43:40
Anyway, any questions you'd like to ask them here? Well, our our two concerns. 00:43:42
Are the siding because it's a historic house, one of the requirements really is that, that the siding that you add would be 00:43:48
differentiated from the what's there now. 00:43:53
Mm-hmm. And we we, we don't quite see that here in the drawings, but we would like to make sure that happens. Yeah, that's. And I 00:43:58
apologize for that. I had spoken Aaron about that this morning before they rushed up north. You won't even be able to find the 00:44:04
siding down below anymore. That is that is unusual. If you asked me mid century middle stuff, you don't even be able to match it 00:44:10
anyway unless you milled it. 00:44:15
I spoke to him and and if there's. 00:44:22
There's a recommendation you guys have, but we can do just an 8 inch exposure tongue groove, something that's very different that 00:44:25
is no problem with my clients. So really simply yes or no. Yes, the siding will be different, yes. OK, that's and if you need a 00:44:31
follow up letter or something from me that that is fine, but. 00:44:37
You know, we've all Gene and Rick, I've known you guys a lot of years. 00:44:43
One issue I always have with these follow-ups is we have no inspection to verify any of this stuff gets done. 00:44:49
You know, and that's a concern for me because when I when I write and I evaluate and I'm told how something's going to happen. 00:44:54
It's not my job to go back and make sure it happens so that that that's just something I'll throw out. 00:45:00
Just for everybody, but yes, I will, I will assure you. 00:45:05
That there will be differentiation on the on the upper floor. 00:45:09
And the. 00:45:12
I think that's already been assured by Mr. Sidor, so I think. 00:45:14
Does that answer all the questions we needed from this House? 00:45:19
Thank you. Yeah, I think we're good. Thank you for. Yeah. But I just want to be clear, I did not hear all the earlier 00:45:23
presentations because I couldn't get in, but. 00:45:26
Please correct me if I'm wrong, if my reports aren't clear enough or something, but if you look at the mapping just alone in the 00:45:30
sand forms. 00:45:33
It's very clear that that house just has multiple editions on it. And has anybody here and you guys have been in this town longer 00:45:37
than me. I've only been here 15 years, but have you seen a vernacular style house in this town that looks like that? 00:45:43
I haven't. 00:45:49
So. 00:45:51
Thank you. I really appreciate you. Thank you. Thank you. 00:45:52
All right. Are we ready for a motion? We have a motion. 00:45:56
We need a motion. 00:46:01
Is there a motion on the table I'm trying to remember? Do we have a motion on the table? 00:46:05
I kind of got. 00:46:10
No, we don't have a motion. There was, there was talk about a condition of approval, but that may have been solved. 00:46:15
Let's just say, do we have a motion? Please can we have a motion? 00:46:22
I move we approve the plans as. 00:46:27
With the. 00:46:31
Of news, differentiated siding and differentiated windows on the new construction. 00:46:34
I second it. 00:46:42
We have a motion by greening, second by Gran. 00:46:46
To approve the. 00:46:50
Including the stipulation that there will be differentiation in the newer part of the building with regard to the siding and to 00:46:52
the windows. 00:46:57
May we have a roll call vote please? 00:47:02
Member Greening. 00:47:05
Member Grannis. 00:47:08
Remember Bickett? 00:47:10
Vice chair. 00:47:13
Yes, chair. 00:47:15
Yes. 00:47:17
Five Eyes, 0 nays. 00:47:20
Motion passes. 00:47:22
Thank you. 00:47:24
All right, the next one. 00:47:32
Architectural permit for 120 Ocean View Blvd. 00:47:34
Which is? 00:47:40
That's blanking, right? 00:47:45
Hopkins, Hopkins Meeting Station and Mr. S. 00:47:48
Yes, Chair. Anton, I just need a moment to prepare. 00:47:55
Good afternoon, Sharon Town and committee members. The project site is the Lobe Building located on the Stanford University. 00:48:46
Hopkins Marine Station at 120 Ocean View Blvd. 00:48:55
As. 00:48:59
On this site, plan outlined as the area of work. 00:49:02
And the property is located SeaWorld of Ocean View Blvd. In the city's recreational trail and is currently developed with multiple 00:49:07
institutional buildings. 00:49:12
Surrounding land uses include the Monterey Bay Aquarium and Veronica's Community Market, the ATC site and residences along Ocean 00:49:16
View Blvd. The proposed development would include installation of mechanical equipment and screening. 00:49:24
On the roof of the low building, replacement of an exterior door and construction of an accessibility ramp over an existing 00:49:32
hardscaped area. 00:49:36
As proposed, the project is categorically exempt per sequel guidelines, Sections 15301 Existing facilities and 15331 Historical 00:49:42
Resource Restoration and Rehabilitation. 00:49:48
Per the phase. 00:49:55
Historic assessment prepared for the project. The proposed development would be consistent with the Secretary of the Interior 00:49:57
Standards for Rehabilitation of Historic Buildings. 00:50:02
And the rehabilitation of the building would allow efficient contemporary use while not impacting the character defining features 00:50:07
or overall historic integrity of the building. 00:50:12
Further report the alterations do not remove any distinctive materials nor alter any exterior spatial relationships, and all 00:50:18
existing character defining features of the building will be retained. 00:50:24
And. 00:50:30
Staff would also like to respond to a comment that was received from an interested member of the public regarding this particular 00:50:32
project. 00:50:36
In the comment was. 00:50:41
Apply a recommendation or a suggestion to apply a special condition that the construction work only be allowed June 15th and 00:50:46
November to protect adjacent harbor seal colony habitats, which are, according to the e-mail, approximately 350 feet to 400 feet 00:50:53
from the building. 00:51:00
And to protect the habitat area from disturbance due to construction noise. 00:51:08
Staff would just like to be. 00:51:13
Comment. 00:51:17
Uh, in order to apply a condition to a project, there needs to be a Nexus. Uh, some type of evidence to show that. 00:51:19
The the condition is needed or or required in some way. However in in this case. 00:51:31
Given. 00:51:38
Scope The minimum scope of the work, or I should say the scope of the work, which is pretty minimal. 00:51:41
In terms of the exterior work on the building. 00:51:48
And the distance from the the nearest harbor seal all out location. 00:51:51
And also the fact that noise travels by line of sight. 00:51:59
And there are build. 00:52:04
Between the Haul Out location, the nearest Haul Out location and the the area where the work would be performed outside on the 00:52:08
exterior of the building. 00:52:13
Therefore staff believes that. 00:52:19
There's really no Nexus to apply this type of restriction or condition on the project. 00:52:22
And this concludes staff's presentation and I'm available for questions as well as the applicant. 00:52:30
Thank you. Are there any questions for Mr. Sidor at this point? 00:52:37
See. None. OK. Do we have. I don't know. Do we have a we do somebody from Hawkins here that would like to speak? 00:52:44
Sure. I'm Paul Davis, Architect or the architect. 00:52:53
Representatives here as well, if you have any questions, can you speak into the mic this We have to record all this. 00:52:58
Sorry. 00:53:04
Thank you. Finally, thank you Joe for that report. This is a interior remodel of an existing lab. 00:53:06
And what's exciting about it is what is going to be in that lab and there it will be a very precise. 00:53:15
We need a really precise environment for the microscopes that are going to be used. 00:53:27
By the students in this lab. And so we needed to have. 00:53:34
A complex. 00:53:39
A piece of equipment on the roof to be able to deliver. 00:53:41
The the temperatures that we need and maintain them in really tight tolerances. So we are asking for this piece of equipment to be 00:53:45
on the roof. 00:53:50
We have detailed a screen. 00:53:55
That will screen them the material that that equipment. 00:53:59
It's we'll we're going to paint it sage, sage green so that when you see it from. 00:54:05
You'll be seeing the all the Cypress trees there and then we would have have that one other color to be able to screen the. 00:54:13
That's the only exterior work that we're doing is having a crane. 00:54:23
Pick up a piece of equipment and put it. 00:54:28
And build that screen, otherwise all of the. 00:54:31
The the rest of the work is interior. 00:54:35
To the. 00:54:39
So we feel that. 00:54:41
That's number one. Number two, the comment that Joe came up about the the seals and seal pups. 00:54:45
I mean that beach is Hopkins Beach and. 00:54:54
They. 00:54:59
How sensitive that is? And they're not going to do anything to be, you know, during that time. 00:55:00
To. 00:55:09
What's happening there? The the aquarium has a an approved. 00:55:11
A seal and seal plan by the Planning Commission. That will be that we can, that we can use. 00:55:18
As a condition of approval if. 00:55:26
But and and then really, that's all the project. 00:55:30
Any questions? 00:55:36
You're just enlarging one door. Well, no, it's we're replacing one door. 00:55:39
With another. 00:55:47
It's for accessibility, so it opens the wrong way. It doesn't have. 00:55:48
The 10 to 12 inches at the base of. 00:55:55
It's not an original door, it's an aluminum door and then we'll have A and that will be because of the thickness of the concrete 00:55:58
walls. 00:56:03
And to make it accessible for a wheelchair in a tight. 00:56:09
Take vestibule. We need to change the operation of that door to open. 00:56:14
Other questions? 00:56:22
All right. Thank you. 00:56:24
I'll now open the public. 00:56:28
Hi, my name is Tom. 00:56:46
I was going to come comment on this anyway and I was going to apologize because my concerns really aren't in the purview of this 00:56:49
board. 00:56:53
For this Commission, but with the conditions that the staff just outlined, apparently it is. 00:56:57
I'm not concerned at all about the project or what it is or anything. My only concern is the noise and the timing of it because I 00:57:04
am concerned. 00:57:09
About those Barber seals that are 300 and 75400 feet. 00:57:14
Just for the record, I'm not the person who register your comment advance about that. 00:57:19
We have been discussing it and we've been looking through the plan to see if we could figure out. 00:57:24
Anything about the timing of the work, the outdoor work and commitment. So it's gonna come and see how we do that. 00:57:30
In case this is the only public hearing that's going to be held on this, and I think it. 00:57:37
But I. 00:57:42
The internal works no problem at all, and probably that ramp in the door is probably no problem. 00:57:45
But working on the roof may seem minimal, and from a construction point of view I'm sure it is. 00:57:51
Using a crane may seem. 00:57:58
But the animals that are lying on? 00:58:01
Are hypersensitive. They sleep in daytime, they disturb easily. 00:58:05
A couple of years ago, you may know the city had some. 00:58:10
Fairly innocent water. 00:58:14
Water. 00:58:16
Replacement in the Street View. 00:58:17
We question the timing because it was during the popping. 00:58:21
The City Council decided that it'll be all right. It wasn't. It caused a couple of dozen miscarriages of upset year, and the 00:58:25
federal government stepped in and stopped it. 00:58:31
I don't, but I ever seen that happen. 00:58:37
It's avoid. 00:58:40
The lifting of this, the roof work that they're talking about. 00:58:42
Doesn't seem like it's going to take a lifetime if you plan around the pumping season. 00:58:46
No problem. 00:58:52
You know, no harm, no foul, and that's, I don't know what the timing is. 00:58:53
As I understood the comments, it just happened. 00:58:59
It may not be bent out and they don't think it's going to be a big deal. It could be and that's my only concern that finding the 00:59:03
outdoor, the work that could be heard off site because because those animals are there, because of what they. 00:59:09
What they do. 00:59:17
It is centered area. 00:59:18
The city staff has some. 00:59:20
Getting. 00:59:23
It is an. 00:59:25
It's the Coast Mission understands it, no understands it. And I'm just asking that just schedule the outdoor work around the 00:59:27
Harrisville schedule and no problem. 00:59:32
Thank you. 00:59:37
Thank you. 00:59:39
Do you have any other public comment on this matter? 00:59:43
Please come to the pod. 00:59:47
You're coming now. It's public comment. 00:59:49
Since we have a professors in the room, the pupping season is. 00:59:52
The season is in March. 01:00:00
And according to the schedule, that equipment may not get there until May or May 15th. 01:00:02
Sometimes it, sometimes. 01:00:12
And the the putt beans and and then the season ends June. 01:00:15
So we will. 01:00:21
That is, the installation of that equipment would be. 01:00:25
Very, very. 01:00:29
In in the petting season. 01:00:30
Thank you. 01:00:34
Is there other public comment? 01:00:36
Do we have virtual public? 01:00:39
Yes, we do. 01:00:42
I'll allow Inga Lorenzen Dahmer to speak. 01:00:43
Thank you very much. 01:00:48
I studied this pretty completely because I look right out over Hopkins Marine Station. I'm a block up and I've watched it for 70 01:00:51
years, so plus. 01:00:56
And this one. 01:01:03
Obviously the accessibility of the low building. 01:01:07
Excuse me, that building is ancient, historic and in need of. 01:01:12
Some updates and that is absolutely no problem. I have rented out over 23 years to professors, postdocs, whatever. They walk 01:01:18
around the corner. 01:01:24
I feel very close to them. 01:01:32
And frankly, I couldn't get up the stairs and move around anymore myself. Period. 01:01:35
With the roof of pertinence I appreciate. 01:01:42
The green bit. 01:01:46
The painting it green. 01:01:48
Because it will protrude and unlike their HVAC which is an absolute. 01:01:51
Horrid protrusion on their other building that they painted black. 01:01:57
Which does not. For my view, it sticks out like a sore thumb. It does not blend in with the sand color of the. 01:02:03
And as far as the trees, they are so overgrown, Those Cypress haven't been trimmed in years that it will probably hide most of it 01:02:13
anyway, certainly from my view. So obviously I'm. 01:02:20
Absolute support. 01:02:28
Of Hopkins updating their building to continue their research. 01:02:32
And being absolutely aware of caretaking the seal and the seal popping on their beach, I can't imagine that they would do anything 01:02:38
else but offer them the greatest protection. 01:02:46
However, the Monterey Bay Aquarium decided to. 01:02:54
Great. It's generator room and have lengthy discussions with the Aikman's etc too because they weren't quite aware. 01:02:58
Of the seals and the sensitivity at the time, which was an interesting thing because you would think they would also. 01:03:10
Anyway, I'm in basic support of this this project. 01:03:19
And I wish they would. 01:03:24
That horrible HVAC protrusion on the other building. 01:03:27
To blend in with their building rather than stick out black like a sore thumb. 01:03:32
Thank you very much. 01:03:37
I think your message may have been. 01:03:41
Related over here maybe? 01:03:45
Do we have any other public comments virt? 01:03:47
The next speaker will be Lisa G. 01:03:51
Thank you. I have no problem with the project. That sounds fine except the timing. I'm a black oyster catcher monitor and so I'm 01:03:57
very familiar because they nest at Hopkins on both sides. 01:04:06
On the West beach and or just above it and. 01:04:16
On various places on the what would that be north side? 01:04:22
And so I'm very aware of how skittish the the harbor seals are and. 01:04:31
Late, even very late in the pupping season is not late enough. 01:04:38
It it. 01:04:44
Outside the pupping season. Pupping season doesn't start and end on a specific date. In any case, that's that's up to the harbor 01:04:47
seals. We have nothing to say about it. 01:04:52
The Har. 01:04:59
Pup not only on the West beach where everybody watches them from the fence they pop on. They have a significant Rookery on Fisher 01:05:01
Beach, which is on the side between the Lure Building and the aquarium. 01:05:10
And. 01:05:19
Those are the ones that are going over there to get away from all the people on the other side, so. 01:05:21
A crane overhead and any days there's disruption that that's a kind of. 01:05:28
Very significant disruption I I would believe for the harbour seals, so I would just. 01:05:35
Please ask you to make a condition of approval that this be outside. 01:05:44
The The Pupping Season Our Harbor SE. 01:05:49
Deserve our respect and and they are. 01:05:55
Not only a marvelous natural resource of our community, but they they generate income for this city too. 01:06:01
If you need to look at it that way, but in any case I it's very important that they not be disturbed. 01:06:12
Trying to come back from the very. 01:06:22
Disruptive pupping season they had when the city did its St. work and, and call him, did its water. 01:06:25
Pipe repairs for months and had to be shut down by Noah. 01:06:34
The marine sanctuary, so I hope that you can. 01:06:41
Allow them that condition of approval. Thank. 01:06:46
Thank you. 01:06:51
Have anybody else? 01:06:57
The next speaker. 01:06:59
Anthony. 01:07:00
Good afternoon. 01:07:05
First of all I want to thank. 01:07:07
And the. 01:07:09
For taking this. 01:07:12
Time to. 01:07:15
The natural resources, not just historic resources. 01:07:18
I think. 01:07:23
The architect for the applicant or the applicant mention. 01:07:25
That they're aware. 01:07:29
A protocol. 01:07:32
To protect the seals and that they're willing to follow that. 01:07:34
I would just. Obs. 01:07:38
And doing construction like this myself. 01:07:42
In the past. 01:07:46
Where there's. 01:07:49
It's a good idea to prefabricate things such as the screen. 01:07:51
Off site and then bring it. 01:07:56
Yeah. 01:07:59
Pieces that can eat more easily be installed, so the racket of. 01:08:03
Fabricating something like that on a roof. 01:08:09
Could be. 01:08:12
Um. 01:08:15
That element could. 01:08:16
Have some absorption quality. 01:08:20
Into the backside of it, the equipment side of. 01:08:22
I and I. 01:08:27
Mr. Sidora's comment about. 01:08:30
Travels by line of sight. 01:08:33
And I. 01:08:38
Possibly even. 01:08:41
Buffers, no. 01:08:43
Accentuating. 01:08:49
Panels could be. 01:08:51
Around the other equipment, on all the other buildings. 01:08:53
That might disturb the. 01:08:56
Thank you very much. 01:08:59
Thank you. 01:09:02
See. No other hands raised. 01:09:07
All right. Thank you. Having a close? Well, I'm going to ask Mr. Aikman to come back to the podium just for one moment. I have a 01:09:09
question. 01:09:13
Would you? 01:09:29
What the harbor seal pupping season? 01:09:31
I know you've worked it out with the city, So what are what are the limits? Starting and when and ending and when? 01:09:35
It. 01:09:41
An indeterminate. 01:09:44
There are today. It's raining and when we were down there, there were four seals on the beach. 01:09:46
Last week when we counted 117 seals on that. 01:09:52
Approximately 50 of them were pregnant females. 01:09:56
They are already. They're in Tri semester. They're third by semester now, so they are skittish already. 01:10:00
They're there or they're going to be there until they pop. And I'm sorry, basically April in that. 01:10:08
There will be 90% of the births have been in April the last few years. 01:10:16
So I'm not sure. 01:10:20
Who says it's March and it's over in June, but that has changed. 01:10:22
We do this, you know, counts, and the puppet counts for Noah have done so for more than a decade. We actually do them for. 01:10:27
The university now too, so they might have more accurate. 01:10:37
And. 01:10:45
But can you give me just from this? I wish they could. The Coastal Commission entered the permits here. 01:10:46
Define the pumping season as generally. 01:10:54
February through. 01:10:58
Generally, but they don't hold to. 01:11:00
They have conditioning work. Noah has conditioned work for the aquarium. 01:11:04
Do not begin before mid June. 01:11:09
And from mid June and then it stopped at the end of December. 01:11:12
They've got a couple of projects with that kind of. 01:11:16
Condition on it The Coast Commission has set some conditions too on projects and we'll do some more but. 01:11:20
The sensitivity starts when the pregnancy starts going up and. 01:11:28
Anytime but the actual delivery of PUP. 01:11:33
Will be usually in late March. 01:11:37
And they're usually all born, and the nursing will go on. 01:11:40
Through May and into June. So I wish I could give you an exact calendar, but that's. 01:11:43
Wait, it's not in September. At least I learned that. 01:11:50
All right. So what I'm hearing is that we, you know, we're fine with the building. We're just concerned with. 01:11:56
Harbor seals. 01:12:05
I think we can make some stipulations here. I know that's difficult, but. 01:12:07
What's your pleasure? 01:12:12
Bringing it back to discussion. 01:12:14
Comments from the Commissioner Committ. 01:12:17
There is the problem with the the puppy season. So are we looking February to May? 01:12:25
Or is it, You know, I mean, that's hard to come and that's hard to. 01:12:31
And they've got to do. 01:12:35
By. 01:12:37
Oh, I don't. I mean, I don't. I don't know what the answer is. 01:12:40
Other discuss. 01:12:47
I think we could. 01:12:53
Approve the project, I don't have any problem with it. Visually it's fine. 01:12:55
It's all about the pumping season, of course. 01:13:03
And we don't know when this pumping season is. So someone has to say, OK, pumping season is here now, you can't. 01:13:06
You can't do. 01:13:17
Heavy noise generating activities. 01:13:19
Until some other time which has to be determined. 01:13:22
By the seals and not by the people. 01:13:27
So I think a general. 01:13:31
A general condition. 01:13:37
Could be applied here. 01:13:41
Say that noise producing. 01:13:43
Should not occur during pupping. 01:13:49
I don't see what else we could do because we don't know when that is. 01:13:55
Well, we know sort of, when it is, and we don't know how loud that is either. 01:14:00
Well, I'm going to ask you a question if you'll come forward. 01:14:07
Again, do you have a sort of an idea of how long this project will take? 01:14:11
I mean just. 01:14:16
So that that that could work out just fine. 01:14:22
It's just if you I mean could, could, could, could any. 01:14:26
Is it condition of approval would be on exterior noise so that we can work on the interior, yes. 01:14:32
OK. 01:14:39
Thank you. 01:14:42
Well, there's other discussion. Or we want to make a. 01:14:46
Wait, wait. Wait. Whoa whoa whoa, whoa whoa. 01:14:53
If you'd like to speak, come forward please. 01:14:55
Thank you for the attention. My name is Chris Lowe. I'm a faculty member at Hopkins. I've been a faculty member for 12 years. 01:15:01
I just listening to the arguments, one thing that I think is important to say that. 01:15:09
Our business and our sensitivities. 01:15:14
This is what we do at Hopkins. So our sensitivities and our surveillance and our support of the the natural environment is what we 01:15:17
focus on. And so we're actually working directly with Noah, with Karen Grimmer to develop a plan for anything we do at Hopkins 01:15:24
that to make sure that the impact on any of the wildlife including the seals. 01:15:31
Is very minimal, so during this project we will be. 01:15:38
Consulting, consulting with nowhere to make sure that whatever we're planning is to the day is sort of planned based on the 01:15:42
activity of the seals. 01:15:46
On the beach. 01:15:51
Thank you. I have a question. 01:15:52
Is the these people or this process that you're describing, is there a group of people or does it? Is there a committee, a 01:15:58
department, somebody that we can? 01:16:04
Say, OK, these guys have to approve this timing. 01:16:11
Yeah. 01:16:15
I'd like to write that into. 01:16:17
I can put you in touch with the leadership at Hopkins. I'm just a representation. 01:16:20
I heard about these concerns this morning, and so I was just coming along just as a representative of the faculty. 01:16:25
But we can certainly put people in touch with the leadership at Hopkins who are making these decisions. 01:16:32
Yeah, which people. I mean, we have people in writing. Dear Michelle Fiorenzo. Michelle, who is the chair of Oceans at Hopkins. 01:16:38
And then she has told me this morning in discussion that she's working directly with Karen Grimmer from Noah to have a plan for 01:16:47
the sales. 01:16:51
If we just said. 01:16:57
I think they have much more expertise. 01:16:59
Yeah. 01:17:01
Very sensitive to these issues. It's not something that we take very lightly. 01:17:04
Yes, thank you very much. 01:17:08
Would you like to make a motion? Mr. Are we ready for that? Everybody, I just want Are we going to make a condition that they work 01:17:13
with Noah to assure us that the outside activities will not happen during the pupping season? 01:17:20
Write that down. That's our condition. 01:17:30
Right there. All right, We need to state it for. 01:17:33
Mr. McGowan, over here, Can you make a motion with that statement please? 01:17:36
All right. We'll. 01:17:43
The project as presented with the condition. 01:17:45
That the consultation. 01:17:50
From. 01:17:53
That the noise producing procedures. 01:17:56
Occur outside of the pumping season and. 01:18:01
Subject to the approval. 01:18:06
Noah. 01:18:10
OK, there. 01:18:12
About that, yes. Yeah. I second the motion. Thank you. 01:18:14
So the motion was made by Steers seconded by Vicket. 01:18:19
And I are we ready for? 01:18:25
Roll call vote here. All right, Roll call vote please Vice Chair, Ste. 01:18:28
I remember be. 01:18:32
Chair. 01:18:35
Member Green. 01:18:38
Member Grannis. 01:18:41
Five Eyes, 0 nays, Motion passes. 01:18:45
Thank you for. 01:18:50
Is our. 01:18:58
Other staff person present. 01:19:00
And I don't think we have any harbor seals down there. 01:19:17
High courtesy. We have a We have other animals that just yeah, right. Few other things. 01:19:21
OK, are we ready for this? 01:19:31
All right. Our next item then is our architectural permit and so on and so on for like losing the address here for 420 Lakhi Court 01:19:34
Day and may we please have a staff report. 01:19:42
I could have a minute to set up here. 01:19:52
OK, you. 01:19:54
Thank you. 01:19:57
Chair Anton. 01:20:53
We're having a little difficulty with the computer to get the plans up. 01:20:54
Loading. 01:20:58
Do you want to start with? 01:21:00
Presentation. 01:21:02
We, yeah, we do have our plans in front of us. 01:21:05
And maybe Mr. Cedar can get them going, if that's what he's going to do. 01:21:09
While you're reporting. 01:21:14
Sorry to the audience. 01:21:17
Good afternoon, Chair Antonio and committee members. 01:21:32
My name is Garrett McCown, assistant. 01:21:35
The City of Pacific Grove, and we have Dara Sanders. 01:21:38
Contract Planner She's the lead planner for this project. 01:21:43
The subject property is located at 420 Lakaya Court. 01:21:48
It's South of Eco Ave. and east of Sunset Drive. 01:21:52
The project is within the Pacific Rose Environmentally Sensitive Habitat area. 01:21:56
Archaeologically sensitive area and the coastal. 01:22:01
The project site has an existing 1233 square foot Chinese tea house. 01:22:04
400. 01:22:11
Square foot non historic addition connected to the. 01:22:13
Carport and a boardwalk. 01:22:17
Starting at lakaya court date and leading to the tea house. 01:22:19
The site would retain a permanent conservation open space easement of 22,489 square feet. 01:22:23
The proposed project would consist of a new 2195 square foot. 01:22:31
Two-story primary residence adjacent to the existing tea house. 01:22:37
The project would include relocation and restoration of the tea house, as well as the construction of a garage in the footprint of 01:22:42
the existing carport. 01:22:47
The existing boardwalk would be replaced and provide access to the proposed residents. 01:22:52
The relocation and rehabilitation of the existing teahouse would include the removal of the non historic. 01:22:59
459 square foot addition to the. 01:23:05
And relocation of the tea house to the southeastern most area of the. 01:23:09
And 90° rotation of the tea houses orientation. 01:23:14
Construction of a new foundation and the construction of a glaze connecting bridge between the tea house. 01:23:17
And the proposed. 01:23:23
An initial study mitigated negative declaration was prepared for the project. 01:23:26
And the review period has ended on November 3rd, 2023. 01:23:33
An extension has been granted to one resident of the. 01:23:39
To submit comments until January 8/20/24. 01:23:43
After seeking legal counsel, staff has been informed that we are OK to move forward with the HRC hearing because this committee is 01:23:48
not adopting the initial study mitigated negative. 01:23:53
Declaration and the HRC's. 01:23:59
Is to make a recommendation to the Planning Commission. 01:24:02
On the architecture and historic aspect of this proposed project. 01:24:06
The review period for the ISM and. 01:24:11
Will end before the Planning Commission approves the project. 01:24:14
This concludes my staff present. 01:24:19
I'm available for questions as well as Dara. 01:24:22
And the. 01:24:25
All right. Thank. 01:24:29
So our next would be to hear from the applicant owner or representative of such. Then you are Mr. Jefferson. 01:24:30
Welcome. Can I take a moment to coordinate with our planner? Certainly. 01:24:39
Possibly, say, anything intelligent about a Chinese house. It's not Chinese. 01:24:58
In a historic house, it's not. 01:25:08
California definition. 01:25:15
Everybody says it is, but I'm not convinced that. 01:25:21
OK. 01:25:26
Good afternoon, Chair Anton, members of the APG Historic Resources Review Board. My name is Angus Jeffers and I'm here on behalf 01:25:50
of the applicants, John Hodge and Stacy care. Today I'm joined by our project historian, Kent Seavy, along with our project 01:25:56
architect Hunter Eldridge. Hunter Eldridge is attending via Zoom as he's still recovering from the flu. 01:26:03
The property at 420 Lakaya Corte currently enjoys the 1233 two-story Tea House tucked away in Lisa Lamar Dunes. 01:26:11
It's a very interesting tea house I fail to recognize for 40 years until it was pointed out to me about half the property point 01:26:20
.64 acres is subject to a conservation easement to protect the highest value doing habitat. 01:26:27
The project proposed to seek to rehabilitate the tea house to its original dimensions, while also providing the applicant with a 01:26:34
functional main residence by the addition of a contemporary wing which is hyphenated and separated by the enclosed walkway. 01:26:42
The total floor area for this main residence will be 3476 square feet, but this is distributed across two floors with all the 01:26:51
proposed. 01:26:56
Development relegated to the lowest value habitat on the property, as determined by Tom Moss. The project is consistent with the 01:27:01
new 15% site coverage limitation along with the 750 square foot. 01:27:07
Landscaping allowance beyond restoration of the tea house, the project will expand the existing conservation easement by over 70 01:27:15
feet from 13,650 square feet to 22,489 square feet. Moreover, the project includes implementation of Tom Moss's dune habitat 01:27:22
restoration plan and this includes removal of ice plant as well as we have non-native. 01:27:30
Non-native lupins which are cross breeding with the native tide strums. 01:27:40
Besides relegating the proposed development to the property's least valuable Dunes habitat, the proposed 2 story residence sits 01:27:44
within a artificial depression. 01:27:48
And thus, as such, from Scenic and the Shoreline Trail, it will only appear as a single story residence of about 12 feet. 01:27:53
Tree removals were limited to 1 pine and two oaks, all of which are suffering from fungal decay. These will be replaced by three 01:28:01
new oaks. 01:28:05
And then based upon Sue Morley surveyed the property, there are no cultural resources on the property. And lastly, the project 01:28:10
seeks to abandon the existing septic tank on the property in favor of connecting to the municipal sewer system. At the same time, 01:28:17
we want to consolidate all the utilities within the boardwalk to minimize the total potential disturbance area in the future. 01:28:24
With that, there are no technical questions for me. I'd like to hand the presentation over to Kent CV to discuss these 01:28:32
historically significant Tea house. 01:28:36
Thank you. Wait one moment please. Does anybody have any questions for? 01:28:41
This time, thank you. 01:28:45
Good afternoon, commissioners. I can't see the historic preservation consultant on this project. 01:29:00
The Henna Tea House was built from plans acquired by Doctor Hannah. We don't know from whom either. Out of China, Probably not. I 01:29:06
would almost bet from the marshes. 01:29:12
But I cannot and have not been able to prove that. 01:29:18
The. 01:29:23
Teahouse itself. 01:29:26
Was introduced to Hannah when he was living in China. He lived in China, Japan, the Philippines, and Korea over a period of time. 01:29:30
Sometime after the turn of the century to 1909, when he returned to the United States and moved to Alameda. He was a chiropractor. 01:29:38
Number ask a boy who got out there and took a look at the world and came back. But he liked the tea house, and for all the right 01:29:48
reasons. 01:29:51
During his day stay in Beijing. 01:29:56
He was introduced the cultural life of the tea house. 01:30:00
Beijing had at least 454 of them. They were the McDonald's. 01:30:04
Of China at the. 01:30:09
Kiosk culture. 01:30:11
From the ancient times, but was particularly prevalent prevalent in the late 19th and early 20th century as a public space for tea 01:30:13
drinking. Today's coffee house. By the way. Gold and red are the colors. 01:30:20
Associated with it so the Golden Arches. McDonald's is today's version. 01:30:29
If this was a situation where in the early 20th century there's a public space. 01:30:37
Where citizens of all. 01:30:42
We're able to come together and mingle in a neutral. 01:30:45
Atmosphere, Peace and Har. 01:30:50
Visually available in the choice of design decor. 01:30:53
Including in both natural. 01:30:58
The outside and interior garden spaces. 01:31:01
And it was interesting because the design motifs throughout. 01:31:06
Were primarily interested in this, the function of an atmosphere of peace and harmony. 01:31:11
An escape, if you will, from the real world. The symbolic elements of peace and harmony were everywhere the moon shaped entries 01:31:18
which you'll find the one of each of these on this building envelope. 01:31:25
These. 01:31:33
The moon shape which we talked about the outside coming inside and the inside getting outside and escape of your will from the 01:31:35
real world. 01:31:40
And the moon also included the concept of perfection. 01:31:47
The Ming jar symbolized. 01:31:53
Both without and within. 01:31:56
As did geometrical forms such as the Octagon expressed the same, as well as happiness, abundance, and long life. 01:31:59
The basic comment that I found in my research on these things was may peace be with you in the coming and in the going out. So 01:32:09
this was a neutral space where everybody could play. The reason they were so extremely popular is because it was a place for 01:32:16
storytelling, the tea drinking in lieu of alcohol, but also body stories. 01:32:24
So it was also the corner bar. 01:32:32
In this instance, he must have had a very interesting idea about the whole thing. When he got back to the United States, he didn't 01:32:35
press him enough. 01:32:39
That I am sure that he was a regular visitor in 1915 to the fair in San Francisco, which housed the one major tea house in the 01:32:44
West at that time by. 01:32:51
The George. 01:33:00
Marsh and my bet based on some of the details of the. 01:33:03
Tea house in in the Sand. 01:33:09
Is that it may be based on that. 01:33:11
The very novel construction with the saddle roof. 01:33:16
With all of these elements of the tea house. 01:33:21
Paraphernalia. 01:33:26
Was that? 01:33:27
He meant this to be a vacation house. He. 01:33:30
May have begun it as early as 19/25/26 is the date that we're looking at kind of as it goes along. 01:33:34
But he did or was able to build the exterior of the building and my thinking is. 01:33:43
Again. 01:33:48
Is the saddle. 01:33:50
Had to be done by Chinese. 01:33:53
I don't think there was a Craftsman anywhere in this part of the world that did it. So my sense is that if you know and then 01:33:56
remember, George Marsh is building the cultural, his art gallery in Monterey at the same time. 01:34:03
So there had to be association between them and working on this. All he got done with, unfortunately, was the exterior of the 01:34:11
building home envelope. The exterior of the building envelope. In 1928 he passed away, went to his wife and ultimately to his 01:34:18
nieces who maintained the facility till about 1950. 01:34:26
And you can see the shell. 01:34:34
With the two stories, if we can go. 01:34:38
How do we drive this thing? Oh, there we go, the octagonal window. 01:34:42
Again without within the finials and their original roof covering was yellow tile. 01:34:47
And if you go to Marsha's and you drive. 01:34:57
Decide if you look up, you'll see that same yellow tile, and that was about the only place that he would have been able to access 01:35:01
that at the time. 01:35:06
Off. 01:35:12
Can we do we have the images that I made available? 01:35:14
By any chance? 01:35:19
The 50s edition of the material on the back. Here we go. 01:35:24
Here's typical of a house in China of the same vintage. 01:35:28
About this would have been about. 01:35:34
19101912. 01:35:38
We can't all lean over and look at it. 01:35:41
Thank you. So to give you an idea of the expression in the land, this one is naturally, naturally wood, but oftentimes they were 01:35:44
painted the red. His is painted red, and his still have some of the yellow detailing of symbols in the apex. 01:35:54
Of the roof. If we go on and go to his, I say I'm racing out of time, let's go to his. 01:36:03
Can we get that one showing the the roof in place? 01:36:12
Here we are. Now you can see that compared to the other one in context in sit two as it was originally, On the right you'll see an 01:36:18
American chimney with the gabled extension to the left. We want to remove that because the original building was a perfect square. 01:36:27
And then you can see barely here, the tiles in the roof. The building, amazingly enough, is in reasonably good. 01:36:36
And what we want to do is preserve that. 01:36:45
In its condition as a section Here, the way we do that is we connect it with a glazed. 01:36:48
Walkway. 01:36:56
Bridge glass on the. 01:36:59
And then the deck underneath, so the building itself, except for that connection to the second floor through the. 01:37:02
Rail. That's as much as it. 01:37:11
Oomp, the building itself sits adjacent to a sea Lam. 01:37:14
And you can see it today if you drive into a ceiling or make a right, go to where the housing units are and you can begin to see 01:37:18
it through a very scrubby. 01:37:23
Cups of wood. 01:37:30
But the idea here is that in having to do the foundation, we want to reorient it a little bit so that the people of this single 01:37:32
Lamar can see it and add to the cultural experience. 01:37:37
Of a sea Lamar. Otherwise you can't see it. It's in a. 01:37:43
It has been built. 01:37:47
To. 01:37:50
By very large modern homes on top of the. 01:37:52
But the property that's being designed. 01:37:55
Flat roofed, it's going to be the same color as the sand, sand, roof and glazed, so it will, if you can even see it, it's going to 01:37:58
be almost invisible. 01:38:03
I strongly recommend that you allow us to go ahead with this project because it's, you know, the Chinese have been in Pacific 01:38:10
rural for a long time, starting from 1850 up to the 20th century when we had a Chinese school in Pacific Grove caught by clerics 01:38:19
who had spent time in China. There are a lot of folks like that and this is a real cultural. 01:38:28
Anomaly, if you will, but it's a delightful expression of our association with the Chinese. 01:38:38
Can I answer any questions for you? 01:38:47
Well, if you have any questions for Mr. 01:38:50
I'm curious about the phase one. 01:38:54
I did ADPR for it. I don't know why it isn't in in your packets or it isn't here. 01:38:58
There was a DPR. 01:39:05
Yeah. 01:39:08
It may seem irrelevant, but it would help me to understand this whole thing if I could understand what part of this. 01:39:12
Makes. 01:39:19
Brings it into the historic. 01:39:21
You know Realm. Well, let's put it this way. We can call association. 01:39:27
If you wish, because the Chinese brought us the water, the Chinese brought us the railroad. 01:39:32
The Chinese were the first fishermen. They were the and this is an example or a representation of their culture that we still 01:39:38
retain. That's number two on your your, what is it? Historic. Yeah, historic relationship to the Chinese #2 associational 01:39:45
relationship. 01:39:51
Because of Hannah's interest in the Chinese and the architecture is unique to this place. If Marsha's is an historic building in 01:39:58
Monterey. 01:40:03
Then this tea house should be an historic building in Pacific. Just trying to wrap wrap around, wrap my head around this 01:40:09
conceptually. 01:40:13
Understand it. What? What is it that is precious to Pacific Grove? 01:40:18
And are we preserving that and so forth? 01:40:25
I'm still a little bit mystified by all this. Well, you should go to the and we can't see it because it's all on private property. 01:40:32
That's why we want to open it up by shifting it a little bit. So if you go on public property at a sea, Lamar, you can't see it. 01:40:40
And if you look at this in another concept, we all, not all of us, but most of us, have taken the walk. 01:40:51
Along. 01:40:58
To honor Kwok Moy. 01:41:00
She was from Monterey, but her Chinese presence is here on an annual basis, so this is the one example we have of this form. 01:41:03
Thank you, Mr. Seavy. 01:41:17
All right, I now need to open to. 01:41:22
Public. 01:41:26
Anybody in the audience wish? 01:41:30
How about virtually? 01:41:36
I will allow Anthony Ciani to speak. 01:41:40
Good afternoon. 01:41:45
This hearing is equivalent to having the cart before the. 01:41:47
The state Office of Planning and Research OPR is the highest agency in California responsible for administering the California 01:41:52
Environmental Quality Act, Sequa. 01:41:57
OPR provides the following. 01:42:04
Quotes. 01:42:06
Sequa requires public agencies to look before they leave. 01:42:08
That's what they say and. 01:42:12
The environmental consequences of their discretionary actions. 01:42:15
The IRS and negative declarations should be prepared as early as feasible in the planning process. 01:42:19
To enable environmental considerations. 01:42:27
Who influence? 01:42:30
Project program. 01:42:32
The purpose? 01:42:34
Sequa is to inform government decision makers. 01:42:36
And the public about the potential environmental? 01:42:40
Of proposed activities and to prevent significant avoidable environmental damage. 01:42:44
Final quote is approval means the decision by the public agency which commits the agency to a definite course of action in regard 01:42:50
to a project intended to be carry. 01:42:57
By any person. 01:43:04
That would include historical and architectural. You were sent a 57 page errata at 519 yesterday evening. 01:43:07
With additional and revised technical information. 01:43:17
The recommended action. 01:43:21
In the agenda report for you is quote recommend to the Planning Commission approval of architectural permit. 01:43:23
Coastal development. 01:43:31
Use permit and. 01:43:34
Are you familiar with? 01:43:39
The findings for a coastal development per. 01:43:42
For a, use. 01:43:45
For a variance, I don't think so. 01:43:46
So, with all due respect, do you have knowledge and experience and authority? 01:43:52
To make the eight required findings to approve a coastal development. 01:43:56
As I first said, this project is equivalent to having the cart before the horse. 01:44:01
Therefore, I respectfully request that you postpone the. 01:44:07
Regarding the merits of the project. 01:44:11
To include. 01:44:14
Of the sequel review to address the inadequate findings of the ISMND. 01:44:16
And HCR report. 01:44:22
Maybe first? 01:44:25
You could designate the property to put it on the HRI. 01:44:27
And then second after the ISMND has been completed. 01:44:32
With all of the comments to address the adequacy and enact adequacy, the rotation of the original orientation of the building and 01:44:37
stuff like that. 01:44:43
That you could place it on the HRI and consider that stuff at a subsequent hearing. 01:44:49
Before the Planning Commission hears it in January. 01:44:55
Thank you very much. 01:44:58
Thank you. 01:45:01
Next speaker will be Lisa Gian. 01:45:13
Thank you. This hearing process is very rushed with the ISM and the initial study mitigated negative deck which is environmental 01:45:17
review document not complete yet. 01:45:23
And the the. 01:45:31
The errata yesterday, as my husband pointed. 01:45:35
Uh, it's this is a very special structure. It there's, as Kent CV said, a great view from it. Well, he didn't say great, but it's 01:45:39
a good view and if. 01:45:44
Plants would get out of the way. It'd be really good from a Sylmar State Park if you walk up to the top on the right. 01:45:50
Now I'll just quickly it covers some of the items in the agenda report. It says that the copper roof. 01:45:59
It will have a copper roof more consistent with the character of the tea house, even though can. 01:46:10
Pointed out that it had yellow tile roof, but in any case a copper roof is not good for the environment getting into the water and 01:46:15
it should be pre weathered. It says it's treated but it doesn't say what kind of treated. 01:46:24
The. 01:46:33
Concrete foundation is lifting the building and and they're saying that it needs therefore a an exception to the 25 foot height 01:46:35
limit. 01:46:40
And that will go along with. 01:46:47
A. Adding it to the HRI later and and I would think. 01:46:50
First, you'd add it to the HRI. 01:46:56
Because lots of things change between the planning. 01:47:00
Review and the building department. 01:47:05
Three. The color. Well, it looks from the pictures like it was dark brown. I love red. I think it looks great in red, but OK. 01:47:07
And #4 it's the agenda report refers to a window curtain facing West. 01:47:16
It doesn't say is there bird protective glass is there at non glare glass. Both of these the Coastal Commission requires. 01:47:23
And let's see, there's one other thing that I was going to try to oh, archaeology. I just wanted you to be aware that the first 01:47:35
presenter on this said that the archaeologist, Sue Morley, found no archaeological resources. But if you notice, there is. 01:47:46
Both archaeological and tribal monitoring required for this because it doesn't matter whether they didn't find archaeological 01:47:58
resources, they still could be there and this is very sensitive habitat in. 01:48:05
Archaeologically sensitive? 01:48:13
That's all I have time for. I hope you will continue this. 01:48:15
To your next meeting. 01:48:20
Thank you. 01:48:25
Next speaker will be Inga Lorenzen Dahmer. 01:48:32
Thank you very much. 01:48:37
Commissioners, this is 1. 01:48:40
Convoluted piece me. 01:48:43
After the fact. 01:48:47
New information. 01:48:50
Weirdest. 01:48:54
Things that I've heard before. 01:48:56
And you're supposed to make a recommendation to the Planning Commission to approve. 01:48:59
I find that. 01:49:06
Just amazing. 01:49:08
I think probably the Tea House is historic. 01:49:11
And should we? 01:49:15
Added to an inventory. 01:49:18
It. 01:49:22
Documented in phase one and two, what is known and what isn't known? Copper roofs. I live next door to 1, which should never have 01:49:24
been built. 01:49:30
And. 01:49:35
So detrimental to the environment I can't even believe. 01:49:37
We're even getting away from copper drain pipes because of the pollution factor. 01:49:42
Umm. 01:49:52
Golly by G That was one of my little fantasy places growing up. 01:49:54
In new well, in. 01:49:59
I think that this should be. 01:50:04
Because I can barely get through the documents as they come in. 01:50:07
And I. 01:50:14
I am not for variances in height. 01:50:17
There whatsoever. 01:50:20
Or re. 01:50:23
An orientation of where the tea house sits that changes so much. 01:50:25
Umm. And it looks to be like the Tea House is actually going to end up being an Adu. 01:50:33
I don't know. 01:50:41
But. 01:50:44
I haven't gone through the documents as well. 01:50:45
As possibly the Giannis have. 01:50:49
But I haven't had time to either because they keep dropping things on us. 01:50:52
So I would certainly. 01:50:57
Encourage continuing this project because you are going to be recommending this on to another body. 01:51:01
That certainly you should at least determine. 01:51:10
The historicity first. 01:51:14
So thank you very much for your time and attention. 01:51:17
Thank you. 01:51:23
I see no other hands raised. 01:51:30
All right. I will close public comment and bring. 01:51:32
The matter back to this committee for discussion. So do we have discussion? 01:51:36
Who would like to be first? 01:51:46
Well, I haven't been in a situation where a. 01:51:49
Has not been on the resources list. 01:51:54
But. 01:51:59
Planning to put it. 01:52:01
I mean, I've always had to deal with one that's on the list, so I'm not even sure how. 01:52:02
Proceed with. 01:52:08
Other comments. I definitely think it needs to be continued. 01:52:13
And more information and clearer information needs to be. 01:52:20
Add by all of us, including. 01:52:28
A tour. 01:52:33
The tea house and the lot, so we can. 01:52:36
That this Tea house is in this location, We're going to move it to that location. We're going to change its orientation. We're 01:52:40
going to. 01:52:44
Lift at the height of it a little bit. What does all that mean? And I I have no way of knowing that. And we just don't have the 01:52:48
information we need to make a good decision. 01:52:54
My my comment from what I've been able to see. 01:53:06
Is that? 01:53:11
I believe that they want to move the tea house because they're on a very limited piece of property and by moving the tea house 01:53:13
they will be able to. 01:53:18
The house where they would like to have it. I feel that putting a basement underneath the tea house and raising it up two feet. 01:53:24
Creates problems for the historic integrity and moving. It creates problems with the historic integrity of the building. Also the 01:53:33
addition which will be removed. I don't really have a problem with that, but it is over 50 years old, the addition, so it's not as 01:53:39
if it was built in the 80s, but I don't really have a problem with that so much. But I do have an issue with raising it up and 01:53:44
moving it. 01:53:50
Yeah, I agree with all of that. I just. 01:54:02
I drove out there this morning and I ended up in front of the house. You can see nothing. 01:54:06
And. 01:54:12
Yeah, I don't know. It's not on the HR. I don't know what our our job really is because I am not having enough information, not 01:54:14
being able to see it, not not knowing that much about it. I I do think we need to have more info in order to even really talk 01:54:20
about it. 01:54:25
Interesting. 01:54:34
Also, you know my other comment too is I got the erratic documents at 5:39 last night. There's another report and addendum from 01:54:36
Kent Seavy in there. There's plant lists from Tom Loss and others and it was just a lot of information that I did not have a time 01:54:42
to look at. 01:54:47
I haven't received it. In fact, I just went through my phone to double check and it's not in my junk or anything. No, I don't have 01:54:54
it either. I had a look. 01:54:58
Mr. Miguel, can you address? 01:55:03
What our charge is? 01:55:06
And I'm I'm asking you in light of receiving the documents late that we got my my understanding was they didn't really affect. 01:55:13
The architecture of the house in any way. 01:55:24
And so they were just sort of an additional information that that was included in the other in the original information. 01:55:26
So could you just address what our charges that is correct? 01:55:35
We included. I forgot to add the addendum to the historic report. 01:55:41
And then? 01:55:49
The plan, the extra plan set in there is. 01:55:51
The design is not changing. The proposed work is not changing. It's just clarifying images. 01:55:54
And notes. 01:56:01
So we decided to attach that seeing as we're doing our Rada. 01:56:03
The. The historic. 01:56:09
I mean, I can. 01:56:13
Apologies. Dara Sanders here. The the contract planner working with Garrett on the project. 01:56:17
May ioffer additional information beyond what Garrett has provided? 01:56:23
To answer your quest. 01:56:30
Certainly. Thank you, so. 01:56:32
As indicated, the additional plans that were provided did not have substantive changes. 01:56:37
There were updated plans that staff requested of the applicant to comply. 01:56:42
The Application checklist for an Architectural Permit as well as the Application Checklist for Coastal Development Permit. 01:56:48
We I think that you also asked what your purview here. 01:56:56
And what what you should be reviewing. 01:57:00
I see that in the staff report a recommendation to forward the coastal development permit request to the Planning Commission was 01:57:02
included. That should not have been included. 01:57:07
As the the the HRC does not, you know, have the purview of our coastal development permits. 01:57:13
Staff's intent and recommend it and making a recommendation to the HRC. 01:57:21
Was to was for the HRC to make a recommendation. 01:57:25
To the Planning Commission on the. 01:57:28
As well as the variance and the use permit because the variance in the use permit are directly associated with the siding and 01:57:33
design of the. 01:57:37
Relocation of the tea house as well as the sighting and the design of the proposed home, which has has been designed with the 01:57:41
intent of being compatible with the historic property and with the intent of designing the home in accordance with the Secretary 01:57:48
of Interior Standards or such. 01:57:55
So, so we are we are recommending that after. 01:58:03
The HRC. 01:58:07
Feels that it has sufficient information. 01:58:09
In a sufficient amount of time to make an informed decision, we are we are asking that you forward the project to the Planning 01:58:13
Commission for final action with some recommendation. 01:58:18
Speaking to the ISM and you know, this property could have qualified for a Categorical Exemption. However, staff aired on the side 01:58:25
of caution and prepared or requested Rincon to prepare an ISM and D for the property, given the types of studies that are required 01:58:35
for a property such as this in the local coastal program and the local coastal zone. 01:58:45
There we have consulted with legal counsel. Legal counsel has advised that the ISM and D is within the purview of the Planning 01:58:57
Commission and therefore this this committee does have the ability to forward. 01:59:05
The project to the Planning Commission, with some recommendation while the extended review period is, is still open. 01:59:15
It was not communicated to staff, unfortunately, by the previous managers of this project that that a member of the public 01:59:25
requested special notice, otherwise we would have. 01:59:32
Notified him, but you know that's that's an oversight that we are attempting to correct here. 01:59:38
So I think as we're hearing that the committee feels like additional information is needed in order to make that informed 01:59:45
recommendation to the Planning Commission and we would welcome feedback from the committee on the specific items that we can 01:59:51
prepare. 01:59:57
For you in your consideration. 02:00:03
OK. Thank you so. 02:00:07
That was clear as mud. I don't. 02:00:13
OK, honestly, it's going to take me a little bit longer to absorb all of this stuff. 02:00:18
Read all the things that we've been sent that. 02:00:27
I haven't had time to read or digest. 02:00:31
And I think we need a continuation. 02:00:35
I just want to reiterate my comment that, you know, we're the historic resources committee. 02:00:45
And we are supposed to look, try to maintain and keep historic properties intact. 02:00:50
And I think that by putting a basement underneath this and raising it up and moving it. 02:00:57
We're not doing if we allow that. We're not really doing what. 02:01:03
I think we should be doing, that's all. 02:01:06
I guess I sort of look at it differently. 02:01:13
I see. 02:01:16
Moving it in a way that would preserve it would be a good thing. 02:01:19
They're only moving. 02:01:24
Fairly small. 02:01:26
And reorient it a little bit and. 02:01:29
I don't see how that could be decremental, but overall I'm I'm sort of hearing here that. 02:01:32
The committee would like more time. 02:01:39
I I would really like a, you know, I went out there and it said no trespassing, so I didn't. 02:01:42
Get very close. I went into the carport and you know it would be kind of interesting to have a site view if if that is. 02:01:49
Thing to to get more of an idea of. 02:01:59
Me how it fits in and. 02:02:02
You know it fits in with. I won't say the neighborhood is more like the sand dunes, but the idea of oriented orienting it so that 02:02:05
it's visible from. 02:02:10
From a syllable, I find that interesting too. 02:02:16
So may I ask, is a site visit possible? We could. I should probably ask staff. I can see you nodding. 02:02:19
Mr. Jeffers, But would that be something we could do? 02:02:27
I think it would have to be decl. 02:02:31
Special meeting. 02:02:34
Notice that and that. 02:02:36
Chair Anton. We can work internally to obtain the property owner's permission. 02:02:39
See. 02:02:47
And we can work with the legal counsel to ensure that. 02:02:50
Appropriate notice is given if it is. 02:02:55
An open meeting. 02:02:59
OK. 02:03:01
Excuse me, Chair an. 02:03:05
Could could I expand upon that response that Miss Sanders just gave? Sure. 02:03:06
This is behind something else. I don't know that we all heard what she said. 02:03:12
Well, well, the the question of a. 02:03:18
A BCC or a committee or a Commission site visit to a site came up during a recent project before the planning Comm. 02:03:23
And because of the UH. 02:03:32
UH coordination challenges. 02:03:34
Especially given the fact that our city attorney. 02:03:38
For land use issues, is located in Southern California. 02:03:42
The the recommendation is that the site visit be conducted. 02:03:46
By individual members of the. 02:03:52
Committee or or at most 2, meaning not a quorum. 3 or more would be a quorum and then that way we avoid any issues also with 02:03:58
noticing or the Brown act. 02:04:05
And then also. 02:04:11
If two members go out and another three members go out to the OR two members go out, I'm sorry, three can't go out at one time 02:04:15
because there's only five members of the HRC, so 2. 02:04:20
And say 2-2 and one then whatever those. 02:04:26
Individual groups. 02:04:32
See on their site visit. It would not under the Brown Act. It would not be appropriate to discuss that amongst yourselves or 02:04:35
between groups. 02:04:39
I understand, I but we did that on another committee. But we we did the notification and I realized that's a lot of extra work if 02:04:44
maybe the owners would just allow us on a given day to just go out there. 02:04:50
And. 02:04:58
You went out there, right? 02:05:00
If they just said it's OK we go, we can go whenever we want. That I think that'll take care of. 02:05:03
Yes, staff would be more than happy to to assist the committee members in in coordinating with the the owner or the applicant 02:05:09
that's gonna be scheduled, say visits. 02:05:13
Go ahead, come up. 02:05:19
Thank you. Angus Jeffers, back for the committee, yes, on individually you are invited to to go across the boardwalk and inspect 02:05:24
the property on your own privately just for the committee members. 02:05:32
By the by the there which was falling over and posed a risk and on that basis we've removed that pursuant to the city and and 02:06:20
Kent's agenda confirming that no, no historical significance there. 02:06:26
Thank you. 02:06:33
Well, so it sounds at this. 02:06:35
That we could just agree to make a site visit on our own. 02:06:38
Or in twos. 02:06:43
And be prepared and continue this to the next meeting. I feel bad about that because it's been continued for a long time. 02:06:45
All going through all the steps, but I think that's important. 02:06:53
And did you have something to add? 02:06:58
Wait, wait a minute. Did you have something to add? 02:07:00
I would certainly like a copy of the pH. 02:07:04
Historic assessment, which apparently we're supposed to have, but I don't have it. 02:07:08
Can I speak just for? 02:07:14
You may can't come up, come up, come. 02:07:16
Sorry, because we're being recorded. 02:07:22
Of interest, I have a letter in my file from. 02:07:25
Paul Finnegan as director of Natural History Museum that he didn't understand in 2003. Why? 02:07:30
The two or three properties. 02:07:42
That were unique to this area were not listed in the Historic Resource Inventory, one of which was the Chinese Tea House, one of 02:07:45
which was the. 02:07:50
Place provide the. 02:07:57
What the hell were they making there across from Hopkins? 02:08:01
The big box and I can't remember the other two but it's I can put that in a package with my phase one that should be here because 02:08:05
it was done a while back. 02:08:10
So you'll have all that documentation. I'll do it through. 02:08:15
Yeah, I. 02:08:19
A better understanding. If anybody would like me to come with you, I'd be delighted to be careful as you go down. It's at this 02:08:22
point in time and space you step down into. 02:08:28
The area and you just want to be careful. 02:08:34
The walkway itself. 02:08:39
Building's fine, but the wall see the plants. 02:08:42
Must had to be avoided or anything. No, no, just it's the walkway has been sitting there for a very, very long time, unattended. 02:08:46
That's all good enough, thank. 02:08:55
You have one more thing. Yeah. My question is just, I know there's story pulls up because I've seen them from Sunset. Are there 02:08:59
story polls where the Tea House is going to be moved to as well? OK, Thank you. 02:09:05
So that'd be good to see that too. All right. 02:09:12
Without too much and I apologize. Are you the owners back there? 02:09:16
No, OK. I wasn't sure. 02:09:21
Let's continue this. We'll make a motion to continue this. 02:09:24
And between now and then, we'll have the information that we need and we'll have. 02:09:30
On our own site visits. 02:09:37
OK. So can we does that sound OK to you guys? Did you want to continue to a date certain to a date let well let's do a date 02:09:41
certain, let's make it January, January 24th whatever it is. 02:09:47
So can we have a motion to that effect please? 02:09:55
Come on, I'll make a motion that we continue this project. 02:10:01
To the January meeting having. 02:10:06
Made site visits and receiving the information on. 02:10:10
The what? 02:10:17
The phase one, phase one. 02:10:19
Historic assessment. Thank you. 02:10:23
And any other information that may come up, such as pictures of trees that had to be removed, will have to be removed. So we'll 02:10:26
have a full slate of information. 02:10:31
Well, by our January. 02:10:40
May I have may I have a second to that? 02:10:43
Thank you. So I made the motion. Grant a second. 02:10:47
I'm greening. Second, I said the wrong name greening. 02:10:50
May we have a roll call vote? 02:10:55
Chair. 02:10:58
I remember greening. 02:11:00
Vice Chair of Steers A. 02:11:03
For Pickett. 02:11:06
Member Grannis. 02:11:08
Five Eyes, 0 nays, motion passes to continue the item to the January. 02:11:11
HRC. 02:11:18
Bravo. Thank you gentlemen, for. 02:11:20
Being. 02:11:23
So, Garrett, I'm looking at the time. Are you willing to go on for at least one more? 02:11:24
Yeah, we have a little more time or two or three, we'll we'll see. I think the first one should go quickly. 02:11:32
So we will move now to the next item, which is considering the deletion of 135 1st St. from the city's historic resources 02:11:39
inventory. 02:11:43
And may we have a staff report? 02:11:49
One second, I just need to set. 02:11:54
Good afternoon, Chair Anton and members of the HRC. The item before you is the removal of 135 1st St. Pacific Grove, CA. 02:12:36
The city records indicate that the building was constructed circa 1939. 02:12:47
And the evaluation notes from page and turn. 02:12:53
One story wing and attached garage appears on 1st available Sanborn in 1962 but may not be original. 02:12:58
Cumulative alterations have resulted in the loss of historic integrity. 02:13:07
Staffs. 02:13:12
Paige and Turnbull's recommendation is to remove the property from the HRI. 02:13:14
Staff's recommendation is to remove. 02:13:18
Property from the HRI. That concludes my staff report. I'm able to answer any questions. 02:13:21
Any questions for Mr. 02:13:27
All right, is the owner present and would like to speak? 02:13:30
Seeing. 02:13:35
I'll build a public. 02:13:37
We have any public comment on this project 135 1st St. 02:13:39
Then in the audience, How? 02:13:47
Aaron. 02:13:51
I don't see any hands raised. 02:13:54
So I will close public. 02:13:56
Bring to. 02:14:00
Frankly, I think I think this is kind of an easy one. 02:14:03
I'm in favor of removing the house. 02:14:08
Pretty much disappeared. 02:14:10
Would you? 02:14:13
Yes, I think we need to. 02:14:15
Remove it from. All right, Yeah, we have a motion please. 02:14:18
All right. 02:14:23
I'll move that we. 02:14:26
Vote to. 02:14:29
In the affirmative to. 02:14:31
Remove this house from the historic inventory. Do I have a second? I second it. Thank you. So it's been moved by steers and 02:14:34
seconded by Grannis. 02:14:40
To remove this building 135 1st St. from the HRI. 02:14:46
May we have a vote please, Vice Chair, Ste. 02:14:51
I remember. 02:14:55
Aye member. 02:14:57
Member Greening. 02:15:01
Chair Anton. 02:15:04
Aye 5 eyes 0. 02:15:05
Motion. 02:15:09
I'll let you guys decide. 02:15:13
Need to go back to your regular job? 02:15:17
We'll just keep going here. 02:15:20
OK, the 2nd house is 133 3rd St. also being considered. May we have a staff report please? 02:15:23
The item before you is the removal of 133 3rd St. and Pacific Grove. 02:15:32
The city records indicate the building was constructed in 1890. 02:15:39
The evaluation notes from page. 02:15:45
The Sanborn maps indicate that the building footprint has been significantly altered, resulting in loss of historic integrity. 02:15:48
Agent Turnbull's recommendation is to remove the property from the HRI. Therefore Staffs recommendation is to remove the property 02:15:56
from the HRI. 02:16:00
This includes my staff. 02:16:05
I'm available for any. 02:16:08
Any questions for staff? 02:16:11
All right. Do we have an owner present that would like to speak? 02:16:15
Seeing. 02:16:21
Do we have any public comment on this particular House? 02:16:24
I will allow Anthony Gian. 02:16:29
Speak. 02:16:31
I recommend this good afternoon again. 02:16:36
I recommend that you retain. 02:16:40
Building to be on the neighborhood character list. 02:16:44
It appears that while a portion of it was original. 02:16:50
The at some. 02:16:54
Fit. 02:16:56
Sort of a mirror. 02:16:58
Of part of the original building. 02:17:01
To create a kind. 02:17:04
Little collect. 02:17:06
Shapes and. 02:17:08
That are representative of the past. 02:17:10