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I'd like to call to order. 00:00:00
The October 25th, 2023. 00:00:02
Meeting of the Historic Resources Committee. 00:00:05
Like to call it to order? 00:00:08
And may we have a roll call vote please. 00:00:11
Chair. Anton, the roll call, please. 00:00:13
Chair Anton. 00:00:16
And the president? 00:00:18
Vice Chair Sears here. 00:00:20
Member Greening. 00:00:22
Member Grannis. 00:00:25
Member, please. 00:00:27
Member Bickett. 00:00:30
We have. 00:00:34
Five members present, one member absent. 00:00:35
And one vacancy. 00:00:39
Thank you. 00:00:40
And. 00:00:42
Any questions on the agenda? 00:00:44
May we have a? 00:00:47
Motion to approve the agenda, please. 00:00:50
2nd. 00:00:55
May we have a vote please? 00:00:57
Member Grannis. 00:01:00
Member Grannis. 00:01:04
Vice chair steers. 00:01:06
Here, yes. 00:01:08
Chair Anton. 00:01:10
Yes. 00:01:12
Member Greening Yes. 00:01:13
Member, please. 00:01:17
Motion passes. 00:01:20
5 to 0. 00:01:22
One vacancy. 00:01:25
Thank you. 00:01:26
One absent. 00:01:27
And do we have any staff announcements? 00:01:29
Yes, I have one. 00:01:31
A staff announcement. 00:01:32
You're Mr. SO. 00:01:35
Yes, we do have one staff announcement. 00:01:38
Staff would like to introduce the new Community Development Department Interim Director Lou Bauman. 00:01:41
Thank you for being here. Thank you and welcome Madam Chair Board members, a pleasure to be here and. 00:01:50
Before I joined, I was the county administrator with Monterey County for 14 years of public works director before that. 00:01:56
And then I had the pleasure to serve with the Monterey County Water Resources Agency. 00:02:03
During last winter's floods. 00:02:08
And then also the privilege to serve as the general manager for the Monterey Peninsula Regional Park District during a brief 00:02:10
recess by that general manager. So it's a pleasure to join your city and help facilitate the transition to a permanent director. 00:02:19
Create that. Thank you very much. Thank you, welcome. 00:02:29
And do we have any committee announcements? 00:02:36
Yes, that would be. 00:02:39
That would be you. I just wanted to say I'm. 00:02:40
I with some sadness I. 00:02:43
I am announcing my resignation from the Historic Resources Committee. 00:02:45
This committee, I've been on it, I think about five years if I do my timing right, and I have loved it dearly. It's been such a 00:02:50
value to me. 00:02:53
Those of you who know me, my story is not cancer. 00:02:57
I love my kids. I'm working full time and it's just a lot. 00:03:00
But my kids are. I'm working in a title one school. It's a very. 00:03:04
Umm. 00:03:09
Underprivileged school, if I may say. They're very challenged and if you will give me a bit of indulgent, I've got a very haiku 00:03:10
ish type poem that my kids, my writing kids wrote and it's a little bit with the ocean. 00:03:16
It's called the poem by 9 year olds. 00:03:22
Beach waves crash at Ocean's edge. 00:03:24
Against sand, soft is powdered sugar. 00:03:27
A breeze shakes nearby palm trees by water. So clear. 00:03:30
A speck of dust shows itself from deep within. 00:03:34
And I just want to say thank you. I would wish that the the minutes maybe got here a little bit sooner for those who are working 00:03:38
on them. And also I hope you replaced me with the secretary and I have loved being here. 00:03:43
Thank you very much. 00:03:49
I hope you're staying for the meeting. Yes, of course. I'll take notes and I'll give them to the new person. 00:03:52
Yeah. 00:03:58
This is news to me, so thank you. And thank you for that's my letter of resignation right there. 00:03:59
Umm. 00:04:06
Any others from other people? 00:04:07
I just had a couple of things. One is just. 00:04:09
And this kind of relates to Mr. Bowen being present, but you know we've had some changes in our staff upstairs and I just would 00:04:12
like. 00:04:16
To ask everybody to just be patient. 00:04:21
And I know that Mister Bellman will get things sorted out and. 00:04:24
As we've had some changes lately so. 00:04:28
We appreciate your working together and I think we're looking ahead. That's going to go very well. 00:04:32
Umm. 00:04:38
I also want to thank Garrett. I'd like to thank you for making our packets available on weekends. 00:04:40
If we don't get in to get them on Friday afternoon or sometimes forget. 00:04:46
You make them available to us and I appreciate that and. 00:04:52
Gives us more time to look them over. 00:04:55
I also want to remind. 00:04:58
Everybody here and the audience that are. 00:05:02
November and December meetings will be at a different time and a different usually where the fourth Wednesday that they will be 00:05:04
the third Wednesday. 00:05:08
And because that is the night of City Council, the meetings will be from 1:00 to 3:00 on those two. 00:05:13
Dates. 00:05:19
So November 15th and December 20th. 00:05:20
It just got too well. One was going to be the day before Thanksgiving and. 00:05:23
The other one right after Christmas so. 00:05:28
With everybody's. 00:05:30
Approval Here we decided to make a change. 00:05:32
So they'll be a week earlier and they'll be from 1:00 to 3:00. 00:05:36
So those are my announcements. 00:05:40
Do we have? 00:05:43
Our Council liaison present. Thank you Mayor Pete for being here. 00:05:45
It's thank you. Good afternoon Chair and Tom and thank you for committee members for being here this afternoon and and serving and 00:05:55
welcome to Mr. Bauman for coming and helping us out as CDC Director and. 00:06:04
Goodbye and best wishes to. 00:06:14
To chill, Thank you for serving so much. I've loved it. 00:06:17
Understandable. 00:06:21
What Council has done of significance, most recently was to direct staff. 00:06:25
To transmit the draft housing element. 00:06:31
To the state, the state's Housing and Community Development Department, where they will take a look at it. 00:06:36
And suggest any changes that they. 00:06:44
Desire. 00:06:49
Ultimately leading to certification of that housing element for us probably in. 00:06:50
In the beginning spring of next year. 00:06:59
And upcoming items. 00:07:03
Council will be talking about cannabis. 00:07:06
And possibly passing a cannabis ordinance. And we're also looking forward to a new interim city manager that will be announced. 00:07:09
For the next council meeting. 00:07:21
Thank you again for your service. 00:07:24
Thank you. 00:07:26
Sorry. 00:07:29
The draft housing. 00:07:30
Whatever you call it. 00:07:33
Draft Housing element, Is it available? 00:07:34
To see. 00:07:38
By the public now. 00:07:39
Yes, I certainly so it was presented. 00:07:41
At a couple of planning the. 00:07:45
Couple of Planning Commission meetings and. 00:07:48
Also at the the last City Council meeting so you can go online and get access, I think if you go to the housing web page, there's 00:07:51
there's a the link to the document. It is 400 pages long. So I just warn you on that and council did make. 00:08:00
Some recommendations? 00:08:10
Umm, and let's see, we approved the recommendations of the. 00:08:12
Planning Commission to remove. 00:08:20
The Noah Building. 00:08:22
From consideration also the Community Center, I think those. 00:08:24
To the 2. 00:08:31
Items that the community is most. 00:08:32
Concerned about. 00:08:36
Yeah, OK. 00:08:37
Thank you. 00:08:40
All right. The next item is general public comment. 00:08:46
This must deal with matters that are under the jurisdiction. 00:08:50
Of the Historic Resources Committee. 00:08:53
And the city that are not on the regular agenda. 00:08:55
So I will open first to public comment from the audience that is present. 00:08:59
Seeing none do we have any virtual audience? We have Angle, Lawrence and Dumber. 00:09:07
Chair Antonin Committee members. 00:09:16
I too want to welcome. 00:09:19
Lou Bowman. 00:09:21
Although we couldn't see because of course the Zoom audience doesn't have a camera angle on on him. But welcome and I look forward 00:09:23
to getting some things straightened out. 00:09:28
And I had a question of. 00:09:34
Of Well, yes. Or an observation and a request of that when the property files are scanned in. 00:09:37
So that we can see them online. 00:09:46
Umm. 00:09:49
Unfortunately they're scanned many times upside down, sideways, and the problem too is they're layered on top of each other, so we 00:09:50
never can really see. 00:09:55
The whole thing, and I'm wondering if that could be rectified by staff when they're attached to the agenda items, because it would 00:10:02
be most helpful. 00:10:07
To be able to. 00:10:13
Figure out what's really there. 00:10:16
Thank you very much. 00:10:19
Thank you. 00:10:21
We have no other. 00:10:28
All right. That's good. 00:10:30
She just spoke. 00:10:34
Ohh. 00:10:35
OK. 00:10:48
I will then close public comment and move to the consent agenda. 00:10:49
Is there a? Does anybody? 00:10:54
On the committee wish to pull an item from the consent agenda. 00:10:56
Does anybody from the audience wish to pull an item from the consent agenda? 00:11:02
Seeing none, can I say that? 00:11:18
OK. I'm just waiting for an honor. OK, seeing none, can we have a motion to approve the consent agenda? 00:11:21
I'll make a motion to approve the consent agenda. 00:11:30
I'll second. 00:11:34
And before we vote, I just want to comment that the reason the August Minutes are on here is because we didn't. 00:11:37
Approve them. Last time there needed to be a correction and it nothing happened, it didn't get it. They didn't get approved or 00:11:44
not. The correction has been made so. 00:11:48
That's why they're on there twice. 00:11:53
So can we have a vote please? 00:11:55
Vice chair steers. 00:11:59
Aye. 00:12:00
Member Greening. 00:12:02
Member Grannis. 00:12:05
Aye. 00:12:06
Member, please. 00:12:07
Aye. 00:12:08
Chair Anton. Hi. 00:12:11
We have Five Eyes, 0 nays and one absent 1 vacancy. 00:12:13
Motion passes. 00:12:19
Thank you. All right, we move to the regular agenda. First item is item 8A. 00:12:20
Architectural permit for 143 8th St. 00:12:26
And may we have a staff report please? 00:12:30
Good afternoon, Chair Anton and committee members. 00:12:36
The proposed project includes. 00:12:39
Remodeling an existing nonconforming 900 square foot, one story single family residence and the construction of a two-story 00:12:41
addition. 00:12:46
Adjacent to the existing residence. 00:12:51
The two-story addition includes. 00:12:53
A 165 square foot first floor. 00:12:56
821 square foot, Second story with a rooftop deck. 00:12:59
And a 291 square foot attached garage. 00:13:03
The applicant also proposes to construct a 495 square foot first floor attached AU. 00:13:07
Per state law. 00:13:14
Per state law. 00:13:15
The AU is ministerially approved because it meets the state law and Pacific Grove AU Ordinance Developmental Standards. 00:13:17
The resulting structure will include 2636 square feet spread across two stories. 00:13:24
And an attached garage. 00:13:31
The additions without the AU would result in 2177 square feet spread across two stories. 00:13:33
And an attached garage. 00:13:40
On September 27th. 00:13:42
2023 The Historic Resources Committee. 00:13:44
Considered the proposed project and voted to continue the project to a date uncertain. 00:13:48
With the recommendation of redesigning the front porch of the existing structure. 00:13:53
In response to the HRC's recommendation. 00:13:58
The applicant has prepared an alternative. 00:14:01
Design of the front porch, which includes minimizing the size of the porch as well as centering the porch. 00:14:04
Over the windows and door. 00:14:10
Staff recommends the Historic Resources Committee approve AP23-0097 subject to the findings, Conditions of Approval. 00:14:12
And section 15301. 00:14:22
Class one and section 15. 00:14:25
3. 00:14:27
31 Class 31. 00:14:28
Categorical exemptions for existing facilities and historical restoration. 00:14:31
Rehabilitation, respectively. 00:14:36
I'm available for questions as well as the applicant. 00:14:39
Thank you. 00:14:41
Thank you very much. 00:14:42
And we would like to hear from the. 00:14:44
Architect. 00:14:47
Thank you. 00:14:49
Good afternoon. Jeannie Byrne, Architect and I also have Paul Simpson. 00:14:53
Who's the project architect on this? 00:14:58
So. 00:15:01
Would really like to thank you for some of your comments from the last meeting because it gave us the opportunity to. 00:15:02
Kind of reconfigure that front porch. 00:15:09
And be more specific about maintaining the historic windows and door. 00:15:11
Which is kind of. 00:15:16
The real feature for why? 00:15:17
This canopy is being proposed. 00:15:20
If you looked at some of the historic pictures, including the most recent one that was around. 00:15:23
19501960. 00:15:29
This is probably the least the third rendition of this front porch. 00:15:31
Canopy. 00:15:35
So. 00:15:37
And we're proceeding with the real rehabilitation standards for the Secretary of the Interior standards. 00:15:38
And we've had. 00:15:45
Historian can't see me review it. 00:15:48
So I'll let Paul be very specific about the configuration of the. 00:15:50
The new configuration of the front porch that was submitted to you. 00:15:56
Ohh, and we also wanted to reserve some time to answer any comments or questions. 00:16:02
Thanks. 00:16:07
And community members. 00:16:17
You have the. 00:16:19
Right. 00:16:24
Hopefully you all had a chance to review the elevation we submitted so. 00:16:25
Part of the as Jeannie said the. 00:16:30
Real concern from the from the homeowner that they expressed to us was the. 00:16:33
Preservation of the existing windows and door Which? 00:16:38
Or get a good battering every winter. 00:16:42
Took it with increasing storms because last winter. 00:16:45
They're pretty much make them inoperable due to, you know, swelling and and so on, So protecting those doors, the original. 00:16:49
Windows and Door is something they really wanted. 00:16:56
Would like to want to do. 00:17:00
And maybe preserving the the facade of the building. 00:17:03
So the existing front porch as Jeannie mentioned based on that on the photo that the owners. 00:17:07
Found from roughly 1950s or so. 00:17:15
Show that the. 00:17:18
The railings have gone through, you know. 00:17:20
There's a couple of renditions. 00:17:23
That doesn't represent doesn't. 00:17:25
Replicate what's there currently. 00:17:27
So it has been redone over the years. 00:17:29
And So what we are proposing to do is to increase the coverage to protect the windows extended so it protects the windows. 00:17:34
And but we will maintain the applied. 00:17:43
Callums, do you have a photo? 00:17:46
Ohh. 00:17:50
Yes. 00:17:51
There are applied columns on either side of the of the door onto the wall. 00:17:53
And we propose will be keeping those. 00:17:58
And then the new columns are are. 00:18:01
Directly in front of it. 00:18:03
Will be replicating the existing columns and then the additional. 00:18:05
Columns to the outer edges. 00:18:11
Will likewise. 00:18:13
Replicate the existing columns. 00:18:14
So it will maintain. 00:18:17
Some of the character and maintaining the existing ones at the house face. 00:18:20
Turning the stairs to the side. 00:18:25
Allows us to bring those stairs into code compliance for the riser height and so on to allow for. 00:18:29
Safer. 00:18:36
You know, entrance and an exit. 00:18:37
And. 00:18:41
Centering the whole design. 00:18:45
Helps to. 00:18:48
Show the the face of the building itself more, whereas the previous rendition had the port shifted to one side. 00:18:50
We. 00:18:58
Centered it kind of between the looking at the doors, the windows and the overall. 00:18:59
Facade of the building and. 00:19:05
Work with those proportions to center that porch. 00:19:07
Thereby really showing more of the face of the building. 00:19:10
Umm. 00:19:14
And highlighting that. 00:19:15
Umm. 00:19:17
Per Kent CV's phase Two assessment and the supplemental supplemental letter that he. 00:19:19
Submitted. 00:19:25
Umm. 00:19:27
He outlines the. 00:19:28
The some of the codes and standards that allow for such rehabilitation. 00:19:29
Umm. 00:19:34
And. 00:19:35
Helps to give new life to, you know, to a historic structure and also. 00:19:37
Allows the enjoyment of the of the for the new owners. 00:19:41
Umm. 00:19:44
The porch cover will help to actually preserve the original door and windows and. 00:19:46
Expand their life, their lifespan. 00:19:52
If you have any questions, I'm happy to. 00:19:56
Yeah. 00:19:58
Not yet. 00:19:59
I. 00:20:01
Do we know? 00:20:02
What the EU say there's? 00:20:04
Been about three different renditions of the front porch or something like that? Well, at least at least two because there's, you 00:20:06
know, it's currently doesn't look like the that photo. 00:20:10
Yeah, I see that. That's probably so. 00:20:16
Do we know what the other ones were, or are they just gone and we have no record of it? 00:20:19
Yeah, I don't know if there's a record of them, but so this is, you know what what is currently there is certainly at least #2. 00:20:24
OK. 00:20:31
Thanks. 00:20:33
Correct. 00:20:39
Yes. 00:20:39
So you can see that it has the columns that sort of the half columns at the wall on the other side of the door. 00:20:42
And those we will be. 00:20:48
Leaving. 00:20:50
And then the. 00:20:52
The chamfered posts. 00:20:53
Will be replicated out of the front edge. 00:20:56
Because the current poster. 00:20:59
In need of. 00:21:01
Replacing. 00:21:02
Due to RAW anyway. 00:21:04
Thank you. I'm going to have you stand by and we may have questions in a little bit. 00:21:09
All right. I will open to public comment. 00:21:15
Do we have any comment from the audience first of all? 00:21:18
Lower committee members. I'm Donna Phillips. I'm one of the. 00:21:29
Caretakers and owners of 1438 St. 00:21:33
And I brought up a couple of notes that I forgot to mention last time I was here and talked to you guys. 00:21:37
At the last meeting I spoke about our deep connection to the Ruth Hooper House and our constant efforts to maintain. 00:21:43
It's historical value, but what I didn't speak about so much was the unique struggles of defending the old growth Redwood walls. 00:21:49
Windows and doors against insects, rats and increasing challenges of more extreme weather that we keep having each year. 00:21:55
I personally have learned every square inch of our house in my efforts to not just plug the holes, but to. 00:22:02
Make long lasting improvements to avoid Future Past water or sun damage to the boards that have weathered 127 years so far. 00:22:08
I have personally refinished and repainted. 00:22:17
Both the outside and the inside of the house twice so far. 00:22:19
I have seen the condition of the Redwood and it's struggling a bit, especially on the front of the house where it takes the brunt 00:22:22
of the storms in the afternoon sun. 00:22:26
We've replaced the rope and the double hung windows multiple times. 00:22:30
But they continue to fail, leaving us without the ability to open them in the hot months and close them fully in the winter 00:22:33
months, making the house. 00:22:37
Pretty much a big energy waster, but we, you know, we get through it. 00:22:42
Living in the South, I learned the value of where I grew up on the upper good front porch, especially the wrap around kind. 00:22:46
And not only does it make for more community interaction, but a good awning covering. 00:22:53
The front windows and doors extends the life of the house as you go, you all know. 00:22:58
Protects the inside also like the carpets and the furniture and the inhabitants from. 00:23:01
The sign of the rain and sometimes hail that we get right on the front door. 00:23:08
Umm. 00:23:12
So yeah, it is our interest to preserve the history as much as we can and we want that wood to last. And you know, I'll keep 00:23:13
painting it and I'll keep. 00:23:16
Refinishing it, but I'd like to protect it better. That's mainly my concern. 00:23:21
The orientation of the stairs to the side is also important. 00:23:25
And keeping with the the look of so many historic homes in Pacific Grove, we drove up and down the streets just near our our 00:23:28
neighborhood. 00:23:31
And found I think 30 in less than an hour that had the side orientation. 00:23:35
And it was interesting to see all the different ideas and we really liked the centering that you guys kind of pushed us to go back 00:23:40
and look at what you need. And Paul, the centering looks a lot better. 00:23:45
I think while protecting the windows and doors. 00:23:50
And umm. 00:23:52
You know, I also fell recently and broke my shoulder on a garden hose, of all things, and Sandy. My partner had hip surgery 00:23:53
recently. 00:23:57
And you know, that's when we learned the stairs can be a challenge. So. 00:24:01
Having a few less errors in a proper set of risers that the right height would be helpful to have a shorter entry. 00:24:04
Into the house, at least from that angle. 00:24:11
So those are just things I wanted to throw out there and and have you guys consider on our behalf. Thank you. 00:24:14
Thank you. 00:24:20
Anyone else in the audience? 00:24:21
Do we have anybody in our virtual audience that would like to speak? 00:24:24
With Tony Chiani. 00:24:27
Good afternoon. 00:24:31
Members of the Historic Resources Committee. 00:24:33
I'm going to wreck. 00:24:37
I have some observations. 00:24:39
But but before I start I just want to. 00:24:41
Urge you to approve the project. 00:24:44
Possibly with some. 00:24:46
Thoughts of? 00:24:49
Maybe how to? 00:24:51
Mitigate this. 00:24:53
The size. 00:24:54
Of the. 00:24:55
Addition to the rear and left. 00:24:58
Of the elevation of action. 00:25:01
First of all. 00:25:03
I think. 00:25:04
This project. 00:25:06
Is an excellent example. 00:25:07
That is instructive. 00:25:10
Of looking at all the other historic. 00:25:11
Properties. 00:25:15
That are on. 00:25:17
The list. 00:25:18
Of deletions. 00:25:19
Specifically those. 00:25:21
Where? 00:25:23
Page and Turnbull has said. 00:25:24
Oh. 00:25:26
Someone added a front porch. 00:25:27
Or someone. 00:25:30
And close to front porch. 00:25:31
At some point in time. 00:25:34
A lot of them they don't even know. 00:25:36
When the enclosures when we're done. 00:25:37
My experience over the last 50 years is when people first developed on the coast in California. 00:25:41
They would have these open verandas and porches. 00:25:47
And then eventually they would enclose. 00:25:50
Part or all of them. 00:25:53
To be more habitable to deal with the winds and the storms. 00:25:55
To protect the facade of the building. 00:25:59
And this is an example. 00:26:02
A contemporary example. 00:26:04
Working. 00:26:06
Contemporaneous example. 00:26:06
Where that is happening now? 00:26:09
And so when you're looking at. 00:26:12
Other projects. 00:26:14
Including some that are on the agenda today. 00:26:16
Were page and Turnbull has, said Ohh. 00:26:19
This project lost its integrity, no? 00:26:22
That is part of the history, history and story of the property. 00:26:26
Umm. 00:26:30
I wonder about. 00:26:32
The the roof deck. 00:26:34
It does. 00:26:36
Add an element that. 00:26:37
Is out of character. 00:26:40
And. 00:26:42
Doesn't contribute to the integrity. 00:26:43
I also wonder if the applicant. 00:26:46
Or the architects would consider. 00:26:49
A change in the color. 00:26:51
Of the portion of the building that's larger and to the left left something that would subdue the building, that part of the 00:26:53
building, and allow the brilliance of the original. 00:26:58
This. 00:27:04
To. 00:27:05
Be in front to be proud of the new additions. 00:27:05
I also think. 00:27:09
The. 00:27:11
Proportion. 00:27:12
Of the sliding glass doors. 00:27:13
To the left. 00:27:15
In relation to the walls. 00:27:16
Is a little bit. 00:27:19
Large. 00:27:20
Otherwise. 00:27:21
I think it's a project you should approve. 00:27:22
And keep in mind when you're looking at proposed deletions, simply because. 00:27:25
Over the time. 00:27:30
Of a lot of these buildings. 00:27:32
The porches have been enclosed. Thank you. 00:27:34
Thank you. 00:27:39
We have Inga Lorenzen, Dahmer. 00:27:42
Thank you. 00:27:47
Chair and committee members. 00:27:48
Umm. 00:27:51
I too agree that the rooftop deck is pretty much out there. It doesn't fit in with anything. 00:27:53
And the size of it. 00:28:01
The addition. 00:28:05
Is. I think it completely still overwhelms the original. 00:28:06
And because it's right there attached and I was going to suggest you look. 00:28:12
One of the deletions that's on the agenda today, which is 111 Grand Ave. which is up there for deletions because of. 00:28:18
Massive additions, and I'm going to say that this project will probably end up there too in a few years. It's so. 00:28:28
That's all I have to say. Thank you. 00:28:38
Thank you. 00:28:41
And the others? 00:28:45
You have no other. 00:28:47
All right. I will close the public comment. 00:28:49
And bring it back to the committee for discussion. I I would want to comment that. 00:28:57
Our issue last month was really about the front porch. That seemed to be the sticking point, so. 00:29:03
I kind of think we should. 00:29:09
Focus our comments now on the front porch and not sort of bring back the whole project all over again. But that's just my 00:29:11
suggestion. 00:29:15
So do we have comments? 00:29:20
The. 00:29:25
The front porch that's on there now is a 1950s edition, and it's clearly not original and we don't know what the original one was. 00:29:26
So. 00:29:37
To my mind, that kind of. 00:29:40
Freeze them up. 00:29:42
To. 00:29:45
Add something back on there. 00:29:48
Because. 00:29:50
We don't know what was original and what wasn't. 00:29:52
And. 00:29:57
If we did, I'd be inclined to. 00:29:58
Uh. 00:30:02
Imitate or use the. 00:30:04
You know, inspiration from the old one, but this is not this, is not it so? 00:30:07
Yeah. 00:30:13
It's OK with me. I think it's fine. I I think it's a nice project and I'd like to approve it. 00:30:15
Do we have other comments? 00:30:23
Well, I'll just say I, I appreciate what you guys did as far as changing the look at it. 00:30:26
Is something. 00:30:32
I think I can live with it. It is going to add to the porch, but it's not. It's going to add to the. 00:30:34
Project, but it's not. I don't feel it's going to take away. 00:30:40
I I did mention last time that I thought that the addition was fairly large, but then we got up on the porch, so. 00:30:45
Umm. 00:30:52
I think I'll just leave it at that. 00:30:53
I think the addition is is very large too. 00:30:57
Umm. 00:31:00
And yet I I applaud the applicant for coming back again because. 00:31:03
It's very time consuming and. 00:31:07
You know, spending your hours here is. 00:31:09
Is long and probably not your favorite thing to do. I'm just imagining. I mean, go figure. 00:31:11
But so. 00:31:17
You know my question is, is the size the? 00:31:19
I just applaud you coming back here and if the rest of the committee would be for it, I would be for it as well. 00:31:22
Thank you. 00:31:28
I would approve. 00:31:30
Their plans as as they are now. 00:31:31
And. 00:31:34
I think they've done a. 00:31:35
Excellent. 00:31:36
Work for the environment where it's. 00:31:38
Is this on? Yes. OK, now I think the plans work well with the amount of. 00:31:42
With within the neighbourhood with all the larger buildings and I think. 00:31:48
They've the plans. 00:31:53
I'm fine with the way the plans are. 00:31:54
Yes and I. 00:31:58
I think I like the symmetry of it now. 00:31:59
It's centered and. 00:32:03
I think that just overall it's going to have a. 00:32:06
A nicer appeal. I certainly approve of the project. 00:32:09
And just do we have any other comments to make anybody? 00:32:13
I did like Mr. Messianic's comment about maybe painting a different color. 00:32:19
On the add on so that it would show. 00:32:25
The cottage more as an individual, I did like that idea. 00:32:28
So noted. 00:32:35
So do we have a a motion to approve? 00:32:37
I'll make the motion yes, let's approve the project as submitted today. 00:32:41
Thank you. Do we have a second? 00:32:47
I'll second. 00:32:49
Thank you. May we have a roll call vote? 00:32:50
Vice chair steers. 00:32:54
Aye. 00:32:55
Member Greening. 00:32:57
Member Grannis. 00:33:00
Aye. 00:33:01
Member, please. 00:33:03
Chair Anton. 00:33:05
Aye. 00:33:06
We have 5. 00:33:08
IS0 nose. 00:33:10
One absent and one recused motion passes. 00:33:13
Thank you and thank you for being patient with us. Thank you for coming back. 00:33:17
And good luck with your project. 00:33:21
Yeah. 00:33:23
All right, we now move to item number. 00:33:29
Item Number 8B Deletion of 112 Caledonia. 00:33:34
From the HR I do, we have a staff report. 00:33:39
I'll have to, Yeah, that's correct. We have two. Wait, we have a We have an issue here again. 00:33:43
So before you leave. 00:33:49
We will explain what we're going to do before you leave, because we don't have. 00:33:51
We need at least four people to make a decision and so there is a way to solve the problem, which I'll let. 00:33:57
Mr. Campbell explained. 00:34:05
So when we don't have a quorum because of recusals, we will be using the rule of necessity and in this case. 00:34:07
We'll randomly choose the two, in this case two people who would be recusing themselves, and we'll do that by. 00:34:15
We have names. 00:34:21
That would be drawn and that person, the way this was explained to us for the sake of this meeting, wouldn't be able to recuse for 00:34:23
the rest of the meeting if they had recusals for. 00:34:29
For other. 00:34:35
Other properties. 00:34:37
So if. 00:34:38
This is mostly it's spelled out in our boards and committees. 00:34:41
Guidelines if you want to refer to that later, I'd be. 00:34:47
Happy to read it now if you want or no sure. 00:34:51
So if the number of members recusing themselves due to a conflict of interest disrupts the quorum, the rule of necessity allows 00:34:55
the random selection of the fewest number of conflicted members to vote. 00:35:00
As is needed to enable a quorum to participate and reach a decision. In this case it would only be one person that we'd need. 00:35:05
Because we have to have four for a quorum, we also need. 00:35:09
Or I votes for for a motion to pass. 00:35:15
And they give an example. For example, if four out of seven committee members are conflicted, the committee may select one of the 00:35:20
conflicted numbers to vote so as to have a quorum. 00:35:24
We decided to use this because we pushed this off so many times it's time to. 00:35:29
Finish the project you know. 00:35:36
The agenda so. 00:35:37
Who gets to draw the lucky name? 00:35:39
So one of you will leave of it. 00:35:42
Who knew about this rule? 00:35:46
Not now. 00:35:49
My. 00:35:51
There's the name out of the the bull. 00:35:53
Do we need a drum roll? Yeah, blindfolded. 00:35:57
Number of grants. 00:36:03
Member Grannis, chosen first is the chosen person to taste, so Greening may refuse. 00:36:04
Hey, sorry, but don't go too far. 00:36:11
OK. 00:36:15
I also just want to comment from B through whatever the last letter is I'm going to limit. 00:36:18
The public comment to two minutes. 00:36:24
Again, we've been trying to get through these for a long time and. 00:36:27
I'm determined to get through all of them today, so. 00:36:32
With that. 00:36:35
May we have a staff report on 112 Caledonia? 00:36:36
The item before you is the removal of 112 Caledonia St. from the Historic Resources Inventory. 00:36:43
City records indicate. 00:36:50
The building was constructed in 1888. 00:36:52
Per page until Turnbull. 00:36:57
Some of the evaluation notes. 00:37:00
They provide is. 00:37:02
In 18/18/88, Sandborn shows a tent framed adjacent to one story dwelling. 00:37:04
Rear W portion of the extant building. 00:37:11
By 1892, the 10th frame was enclosed or replaced with a North Bay, and the North Bay was added. 00:37:14
And the South wing was added. 00:37:21
And an open porch was constructed. 00:37:23
At the primary. 00:37:26
East and South facades. 00:37:27
By 1897, a small rear porch was constructed, as well as two outbuildings, one of which was demolished by 1905. 00:37:30
By 1914, the South Wing was expanded. 00:37:39
Based on Sanborn Mass between 1926 and 1962. 00:37:43
The open porch at the primary E facade was enclosed and expanded. 00:37:47
So the commutative. 00:37:53
Changes have resulted in loss of historic integrity. 00:37:55
Page and Turnbull's recommendation is to remove the property from the Historic Resources Inventory. 00:38:01
Therefore, staff recommendation is to remove the property from. 00:38:06
The Historic Resources Inventory. 00:38:10
This concludes my staff report and I'm available to answer questions. 00:38:13
Thank you. 00:38:18
I'll open now to public comment. 00:38:19
Public comment Yes. 00:38:24
Apologize. Speak in the mic please. 00:38:36
Oh, no, thank you. My name is Goldwyn Smith. 00:38:38
This is my third time here. 00:38:42
Last time I had a little outburst. I apologize for that. I was recovering from COVID-19. 00:38:43
And it was my second time here, and it was. 00:38:50
European. 00:38:52
Ohh, I'd like to first of all, and I realize. 00:38:54
Help. 00:38:58
This my wife who has been a. 00:39:00
An attorney for a long time man. 00:39:03
And decent. 00:39:05
Doesn't practice your body. 00:39:07
Put this together. 00:39:11
Which refutes. 00:39:12
The pains and noble or whatever it is. 00:39:13
There assertations with. 00:39:18
Pictures from the family we've which is owned the property. 00:39:24
At least a packed into the teens. There's seven generations. We've contacted them, talked to them, they've visited us. This copies 00:39:29
of this have been in your hands. 00:39:34
For months. 00:39:40
Umm. 00:39:41
With all the pictures and supporting data. 00:39:42
Umm. 00:39:46
Nancy who couldn't be here because we have on newly born granddaughter and my daughter. 00:39:48
As. 00:39:55
Did you is need some support and Nancy got a call this morning and had to. 00:39:56
Go and support. 00:40:02
So she is, and she wrote this. 00:40:04
I did not. 00:40:06
I'll read it. 00:40:07
My name is Nancy Schiffer. My husband, Goldwyn Smith, and I bought the house at 112 Caledonian, 2017, and moved here from 00:40:09
Annapolis, MD, in 2018. 00:40:13
Really relocated because her daughter and son-in-law and most importantly our grandson. 00:40:18
Lived here. 00:40:24
On one of our early visits from Annapolis, our daughter urged us to look at this house, and we did. 00:40:26
The one that was for sale. So we called the realtor and spent about 25 minutes walking through it. We both liked it. Capital 00:40:31
letters. We both liked it. 00:40:35
You. 00:40:42
We like this history as a retreat house. Built in 1888. Same identical footprint since 1914. I'm sorry, but the time is up. 00:40:43
But but we did receive all of your information, and we've all read it. 00:40:51
Good. 00:40:56
OK. 00:40:57
Thank you. 00:40:58
Umm. 00:40:59
Thank you. 00:41:02
Is there any other public comment? 00:41:04
We have Angela Lorensen Dahmer. 00:41:08
Please go ahead. 00:41:14
Thank you. 00:41:15
Chair and committee met. 00:41:17
Am I muted or unmuted? 00:41:26
No, we hear you. 00:41:28
Thank you. 00:41:30
I think it should remain on the historic resources list. Thank you very much. 00:41:31
Thank you. 00:41:38
We have to leave the Gianni. 00:41:44
Thank you. 00:41:48
Umm. 00:41:49
I I agree I I believe it should stay on the HR I. 00:41:50
It. 00:41:56
It. 00:41:57
It clearly has. 00:41:58
Received tender loving care. 00:42:01
And from from its current owners and I walk. 00:42:04
In that whole neighborhood, regularly. 00:42:10
Um, it it's part. 00:42:13
Of the whole neighborhood. 00:42:15
And and it's a more. 00:42:17
What's the word it it it's not. 00:42:22
As. 00:42:24
As. 00:42:27
Ohh gosh, I just went blank on the words but it's a much more humble. 00:42:28
House then a lot of them. But I love that. 00:42:33
As as as being part of that neighborhood. 00:42:38
And and the point is. 00:42:40
It. 00:42:43
It. 00:42:44
Still meets the criteria to be on the HRI and. 00:42:45
And I hope that you will retain it. 00:42:51
Ohh and I do want to say that. 00:42:54
If you don't. 00:42:57
Retain it. 00:42:59
Then it definitely should be on the neighborhood character list. But I hate to even say that because then sometimes. 00:43:00
The committee goes straight to that idea and and I really want you to strongly consider retaining it. On the HR, I thank you very 00:43:08
much. 00:43:12
Thank you. 00:43:18
We have Tony Chiani. 00:43:20
Honesty, Simplicity. 00:43:25
Uh. 00:43:28
Simplicity of materials, simplicity of construction, simplicity of design. 00:43:29
All. 00:43:35
Are characteristics of a building of this era. 00:43:36
Clearly the information provided by. 00:43:40
And and the public comments about the. 00:43:44
Care and love of this property. 00:43:48
Show. 00:43:51
That it has integrity. It has integrity of ownership. 00:43:52
Has integrity of its historical use and has integrity of. 00:43:56
Of the Pride. 00:44:01
For this very simple building, it should not be taken off. 00:44:03
The HR. I thank you. 00:44:07
Thank you. 00:44:11
We have no other comment. 00:44:14
OK, I'll close public comment, bring it back for discussion. 00:44:16
Comments from the committee. 00:44:23
I think we should keep it on the. 00:44:26
Historic inventory. 00:44:28
Partly because this. 00:44:31
The house the front of the house was added on to. 00:44:35
And I'm looking for the date. 00:44:39
I had one at my desk. 00:44:41
But I don't have it here. I don't have the proof here but. 00:44:43
It was added on to. 00:44:47
At an early. 00:44:50
Date I think before 1926. 00:44:52
And it has the windows. 00:44:56
All the windows going around it except. 00:45:00
On the left hand side, it used to be an open porch. It's now not. 00:45:03
But the the porch was added on to or enclosed later, but enclosed in a way that is consistent with the design. 00:45:09
That it has. It's a nice looking design. I like it very much and I I agree that it matches the character of the house, but I also 00:45:18
think that it's. 00:45:23
Predates. 00:45:28
The 1926. 00:45:30
Cut off. 00:45:33
Or. 00:45:36
Historic. 00:45:37
Consideration I guess. 00:45:39
I too think it should stay on. I'm sorry. I too think it should stay on the HR I I I really admire. 00:45:43
The owner's dedication coming here so very many times. I know that's not easy and sitting through our. 00:45:51
Very long meetings and I just want to thank you for your perseverance and I want to say that I enthusiastically support it being 00:45:56
on the HR. I thank you. 00:46:00
Right. 00:46:06
Well, I feel that's really interesting information that it it was done before 1926, so. 00:46:08
I also feel like it should stay on. 00:46:15
Thank you. 00:46:20
I'm, you know, I think sometimes Page and Turnbull goes way too far. I think they're looking at this house. 00:46:21
As it might have looked in 1892, but I think we can we stretch. 00:46:28
Are sort of cut off much later than that. 00:46:34
I was looking actually at the Heritage societies, the the old DPR from 1977 where somebody wrote. 00:46:38
That had been greatly altered but not giving a date. 00:46:45
And I want to comment, having been part of that in 1977, that there are a lot of untrained people. 00:46:51
Contributed to those DPR reports. 00:46:57
Back in 1977. 00:47:00
Umm, so they're they were not done by a company like Page and Turnbull anyway. 00:47:02
And so I think that probably alterations were made. 00:47:08
After 1892 but. 00:47:13
At the same time I, I. 00:47:17
Feel that it should stay on the HRI. 00:47:19
So with that, may we have and I'm so sorry you had to wait, but I think you have to understand technically where we're. 00:47:22
Our hands are tied at times. We finally found a solution, otherwise it would happen again today. 00:47:29
So please understand. 00:47:34
Our situation and I appreciate your. 00:47:36
Hanging in there with us. 00:47:40
So may we have the vote, please? 00:47:42
You get a motion. 00:47:48
Maybe have a motion. Yes, the motion that. 00:47:49
112 Caledonia remains on the HRI. 00:47:54
2nd. 00:47:57
I'll second it, yes. 00:47:58
Now maybe have a vote. 00:48:00
Member, please. 00:48:03
Aye. 00:48:04
Vice chair steers. 00:48:06
Aye. 00:48:07
Chair Anton. 00:48:09
Aye. 00:48:10
Member Grannis. 00:48:12
Poor eyes. 00:48:16
0 nays, 1 recused, 1 absent, 1 vacancy. 00:48:18
Motion passes. 00:48:23
Or. 00:48:24
OK. That's correct. Thank you. 00:48:26
All right, next item. 00:48:30
Thank you. 00:48:32
The next item is item 8C and we're talking about 718 Grove St. May we have a report of staff report please? 00:48:33
The item before you is the removal of 718 Grove St. 00:48:42
From the H from the Historic Resource Inventory. 00:48:49
City records indicate. 00:48:52
The building was constructed in 1890, per Page and Turnbull. 00:48:55
And the evaluation notes. 00:48:59
Include a large scale of the second story addition plus the shed roof. 00:49:01
Garage addition at the side. 00:49:08
Obscure the original narrow, rectangular one story volume of this tent cottage. 00:49:10
The massing of the tent cottages is one of their most characteristic features, and thus. 00:49:15
This building no longer retains sufficient historic integrity. 00:49:20
Page and Turnbull's recommendation is to remove the. 00:49:25
Property from the Historic Resources Inventory. Therefore, staff recommendation is to remove the property from the Historic 00:49:28
Resources Inventory. 00:49:31
This concludes my staff report and I'm available to answer any questions. 00:49:36
Thank you very much and I'll open that to public comment. 00:49:41
Anybody in the audience. 00:49:45
Anybody virtually. 00:49:47
We have. 00:49:50
Technician Liani. 00:49:51
As you all know, I've been practicing historic preservation architecture since 1973. 00:49:56
I guess that's about 50 years. 00:50:03
What I've learned over the years. 00:50:06
Is. 00:50:09
The consultants. 00:50:11
Including me. 00:50:13
Need to be flexible in their analysis using. 00:50:14
The. 00:50:18
The standards, whether it's the standards for determining A boundary of A. 00:50:19
Property or a district? 00:50:24
Or applying the strict standards of. 00:50:25
The treatment of historic structures. 00:50:29
I think Page and Turnbull. 00:50:32
Came in. 00:50:34
Very. 00:50:35
Rigidly applying the standards. 00:50:37
So. 00:50:40
This is an example. 00:50:41
Several of the others following on this agenda are examples of properties. 00:50:43
That. 00:50:48
I'm sure. 00:50:49
Quite confident if you look back. 00:50:50
Past the standards of Architectural review. 00:50:53
For additions to an existing historical structure. 00:50:56
So. 00:51:01
What you will be doing if you take this off? 00:51:04
Is you'll be saying to all of the predecessor. 00:51:06
Committees. 00:51:10
And architectural boards that they were wrong. 00:51:11
In approving these projects. 00:51:15
This is an example of a property that should remain on. 00:51:17
Shouldn't be on a neighborhood character list. 00:51:20
It should be. 00:51:24
Part of the. 00:51:25
HRHRI. 00:51:26
I strongly. 00:51:28
Urge you. 00:51:30
To keep it on the list. 00:51:31
Thank you. 00:51:33
Thank you. 00:51:36
We have Lisa Gianni. 00:51:38
Thank you. 00:51:44
Umm. 00:51:45
This is another house that I walk by. 00:51:47
Regularly. 00:51:50
And it's a jewel. 00:51:51
I was absolutely shocked when I saw it on the list for deletions. 00:51:54
Then after reading. 00:52:02
The the DPR form you know and. 00:52:04
Walking by again and again I could see. 00:52:08
The issues that. 00:52:13
They that page and Turnbull had with it. 00:52:16
But. 00:52:19
I It was done. 00:52:20
With. 00:52:23
Such care and and and. 00:52:24
I don't think. 00:52:29
Anybody would walk by this and say ohh, that's not historic. So I. 00:52:31
I think that and then the when. 00:52:37
Next to it to the left. 00:52:41
Umm. 00:52:43
Which is? 00:52:44
Not as. 00:52:45
Totally delightful as this one. But but there's just there's a wonderful. 00:52:47
Feel there and and the one on the corner. 00:52:52
Two, but this one is it just. 00:52:55
An absolute jewel. 00:52:57
And and I hope. 00:52:59
That you will retain it on the HR. 00:53:00
Thank you. 00:53:04
Thank you. 00:53:05
Are we having a timer issue? 00:53:07
Yes, it's up on the upper right hand corner of the screen, but for some odd reason the. 00:53:10
The timer itself isn't working. We can. 00:53:15
That's OK. If you if you can see it, that's. 00:53:19
And we can see. 00:53:21
I'm fine. 00:53:23
As long as we're keeping track. 00:53:24
And we have Angular, Ants and Dahmer. All right. Thank you. 00:53:26
Thank you. 00:53:31
In the interests of the time, Mr. Chair and the committee members, I will just say that I wholeheartedly enthusiastically agree 00:53:32
with both Tony. 00:53:37
And Lisa Gianni's comments? 00:53:43
Thank you very much. 00:53:45
Thank you. 00:53:47
Any others? 00:53:49
No, no other comments. All right, I will close public comment, bring it back to the committee for discussion. 00:53:51
Well, I. 00:53:59
I'm in favor, definitely of keeping this on. I go by there on a daily basis too, and I never would have thought that, you know, 00:54:00
this was not a Victorian house. 00:54:06
I I know the addition but I I really don't even notice that it's it's just got so much character on the front porch and. 00:54:12
And I I just think it should stay on. 00:54:20
Jill, I totally agree. 00:54:25
I think it's it's very well done. 00:54:27
Umm. 00:54:30
Yes, you know the the tent home is probably. 00:54:31
There, but I'm wondering, you know, I know my little house has little had a little side garage that I converted and I don't know 00:54:34
if we have any earlier pictures or recommend or our history of it, but I'm imagining there was some kind of a little. 00:54:40
Little garage there next door. 00:54:47
To that in the early, early times. 00:54:49
It's just a possibility somebody here might be able to say. 00:54:51
If that's correct or not, that's just a an assumption on my part, but I think it's well done and. 00:54:54
I would be for keeping it. 00:55:00
I also agree that the. 00:55:03
This House should remain on the historic inventory. 00:55:06
The additions. 00:55:10
Above and to the right hand side of it are. 00:55:13
Set back and they are simpler. 00:55:16
And then the. 00:55:20
Then the front porch the existing. 00:55:22
Historic. 00:55:25
Part and they are consistent with it and. 00:55:27
I think they've done a very nice job of. 00:55:31
Expanding without damaging the the design. 00:55:35
So. 00:55:39
A vote to keep it. 00:55:42
And. 00:55:44
I would say the fact that they're set back is usually acceptable to Page and Turnbull. 00:55:45
Again, I've said this before, if you could take off the addition, you still have the house underneath. 00:55:51
The house underneath is charming, and the addition isn't quite so charming. 00:55:57
I. 00:56:01
But anyway that beside. 00:56:02
I I certainly agree. I think somebody walking by that didn't know the neighborhood or know the story. 00:56:05
Would just assume that the. 00:56:12
You know this is a Victorian house that got expanded and. 00:56:14
It didn't get. 00:56:18
The original didn't get demolished. 00:56:20
So. 00:56:23
I would vote to accept Can we have? 00:56:24
A motion please. 00:56:27
I'll vote. 00:56:30
No, because. 00:56:31
This was the proposal here was to remove it and I'm saying no, don't remove it. 00:56:33
We need a motion, so that's my motion. 00:56:39
Wait, your motion is? 00:56:43
Is to vote no on the removal. 00:56:45
Oh, I see. I see. OK. 00:56:50
Say it any way you want. OK. Thank you. I I make a motion that we maintain. 00:56:52
Yeah, let's be positive here. Yeah, Maintain 718 Grove St. on the HRI. 00:56:57
Thank you. 00:57:03
Now do we have a second? 00:57:04
Hi, seconded. Thank you. May we have a roll call vote please? 00:57:05
Member, please. 00:57:11
Member Grannis. 00:57:13
Member. 00:57:16
Vice chair steers. 00:57:17
Aye. 00:57:19
Chair Anton. 00:57:21
Aye. 00:57:22
4/4 eyes, 0 nays. 00:57:24
One recused. 00:57:28
1. 00:57:30
Absent in one vacancy. 00:57:31
Motion passes. 00:57:34
Very good. 00:57:36
All right, the next item is 184 Pacific St. 00:57:37
And. 00:57:42
May we have a staff report please? 00:57:44
The item before you is the removal of 184 Pacific Ave. 00:57:49
From the Sri. 00:57:56
City records indicate the building was constructed in 1920, per page and Turnbull. 00:57:57
Their evaluation notes. 00:58:04
Replacement windows are not compatible. 00:58:07
Immaterial operability or pattern of lights. 00:58:10
Cladding also likely not original. 00:58:14
Cumulative alterations have resulted. 00:58:17
In loss of historic integrity. 00:58:20
Page and Turnbull's recommendation is to remove the property from the HR I. 00:58:23
Therefore, staff recommendation is to remove the property from the HRI. 00:58:27
This concludes my staff report and I'm available to answer any questions. 00:58:31
Thank you. Anybody from the audience wish to speak? 00:58:36
Does anybody from the virtual audience wish to speak? 00:58:41
We have Lisa Chiani. 00:58:49
Thank you. I really can't speak to the integrity of it. It's on a street full of. 00:58:52
Of. 00:58:59
Historic homes. 00:59:01
It. 00:59:04
I love that it is multifamily. 00:59:06
Umm. 00:59:10
And you know, so that. 00:59:10
I don't, but I don't know the whole history of it. I did not have time to to read up on on this one. 00:59:14
So I I will. 00:59:21
Certainly. 00:59:23
Be respect, whatever you, whatever you decide but. 00:59:25
It's it's a great building that's being well used. 00:59:30
Thank you. 00:59:34
Thank you. 00:59:35
We have Angela, Lorenz and Dumber. 00:59:40
Yes, I would request that staff put up the photo at least of the project when they do their report for us. 00:59:43
Audience members, I would appreciate that. 00:59:53
And on this one, I think it should remain in neighborhood character because it does add so much to the neighborhood. 00:59:56
Thank you very much. 01:00:04
Thank you. 01:00:06
We have Tony Chiani. 01:00:10
Good afternoon again. 01:00:14
I think one way to look at a lot of these properties. 01:00:17
As you're looking at them in in groups, which is. 01:00:20
I I really appreciate. 01:00:24
If you looked at this property as part of the retreat. 01:00:29
The historical retreat. And you think of this? 01:00:33
As part of a. 01:00:36
A larger historical district. 01:00:38
That, that might. 01:00:41
Help. 01:00:42
And the evaluation of its. 01:00:44
Significance and its integrity. 01:00:47
I don't think the building has the integrity of the original, period. 01:00:49
Of significance. 01:00:54
I don't think it should be on the HRI. 01:00:55
The the notion that it could be. 01:01:00
Part of the neighborhood character list. 01:01:03
Does make sense? 01:01:05
So I don't think it's a contributing structure structural historical district. 01:01:07
I don't think on its own it's historically significant. 01:01:11
But surely it might contribute to the overall neighborhood character. 01:01:14
Thank you very much. 01:01:19
Thank you. 01:01:21
We have no further commenters. OK, I'll close public comment bring back for discussion. 01:01:24
We'll start with you, Nina. 01:01:30
Yes, I think it should be taken off. I it's just too many changes. The window upstairs is is just a window. I mean they they've 01:01:32
really done nothing to. 01:01:38
To bring it to even I'm not even sure it should be myself on the. 01:01:43
Character list I I I think it should be taken off. 01:01:50
Jill. 01:01:55
Umm. 01:01:56
I I do think it should be off the HR I, but I would be supportive of having it on the character list. 01:01:57
Rick. 01:02:04
I agree with this proposal to remove it from the HR I because of the. 01:02:06
It. 01:02:12
Doesn't have any of its original characteristics. We don't even know what they are, but they're not here. 01:02:13
And or maybe they're completely agree with Mr. Gianni. 01:02:21
About that and I see a pure permit here for aluminum siding. 01:02:26
1968 and of course the window groupings and things are. 01:02:32
Not characteristic of. 01:02:37
The older. 01:02:39
Older homes either I think it needs to go. 01:02:42
Or let me ask this question. 01:02:45
Off the HRI, but on to the. 01:02:48
Proposed neighborhood character list. 01:02:51
Let me ask you that and then I'll come back around. 01:02:54
In my opinion, off the HR I that's it. I don't need it on the. 01:02:57
On the character list, not part of the neighborhood character I don't think. Jill, your thought. 01:03:02
I'd I'd like it on the neighborhood character list. I'm not. 01:03:07
Tied to that, so. 01:03:10
I would not. 01:03:14
Would not. 01:03:15
All right, let's have a motion, please. 01:03:16
Well, I'll let the motion maker decide whether. 01:03:20
Who would like to make a motion? Well, I'll move that. We remove it from the. 01:03:24
HRI. 01:03:28
That is, to vote yes on this proposal. 01:03:30
We have a second. 01:03:34
I'll second. 01:03:37
May we have a vote please? 01:03:39
Vice chair steers. 01:03:43
Aye. 01:03:45
Member Grannis. 01:03:47
Aye. 01:03:49
Chair Anton. 01:03:51
Member, please. 01:03:54
We have four eyes, 0 nays. 01:03:59
One absent and one recused motion passes. 01:04:02
And I don't hear enough support for being on the neighborhood character list, so we'll move on to the next item then. 01:04:07
Yeah. 01:04:14
OK, just a minute here. 01:04:17
Next item 172 Pacific Item 8 E. 01:04:21
May we have a staff report please? 01:04:25
The item before you is the removal of 172 Pacific Ave. 01:04:28
From the Historic Resource Inventory. 01:04:33
City records indicate the building was constructed in 1915. 01:04:36
Per Page and Turnbull. 01:04:41
Their evaluation notes include. 01:04:43
Based on Sanborn map evidence. 01:04:47
The property originally featured 2 narrow dwellings side by side. 01:04:49
The two dwellings were joined at an unknown date between 1915 and 1926. 01:04:54
Significantly altering the design. 01:05:00
Pattern of windows and doors. 01:05:02
And the entry. 01:05:05
The cumulative. 01:05:07
Alterations have resulted in a loss of historic integrity. 01:05:08
Page and Turnbull's recommendation is to remove the property from the HR I. 01:05:12
Therefore, staff recommendation is to remove the property from the HRI. 01:05:16
This concludes my staff report. I'm available to answer any questions. 01:05:20
Thank you. 01:05:24
Umm. 01:05:25
All open to public comment. 01:05:26
Anybody from the audience? 01:05:29
All right. Seeing none anybody virtually. 01:05:33
We have Tony Chiani. 01:05:35
Thank you. 01:05:37
This is an interesting property because of the. 01:05:40
Changes that occurred over time, except. 01:05:43
History is not static. 01:05:45
The notion that there were two. 01:05:48
Cottages side by side. 01:05:51
And they got merged into one larger home. 01:05:53
Is not unusual, there are many. 01:05:57
Including on the National Register. 01:06:00
Historical properties where that occurred. There's actually properties where cottages were. 01:06:03
Dragged by horses. 01:06:10
From one lot to another, Lot ganged together to make. 01:06:12
A larger historical home? 01:06:15
That are on the National Register. 01:06:18
That isn't a reason not to have it. 01:06:21
I think the aluminum windows. 01:06:23
Just detract from its historical integrity. 01:06:26
Unless those were changed. 01:06:31
I think the building does not have the integrity. 01:06:33
Of the materials and workmanship. 01:06:36
From the original building. 01:06:39
We don't really know. 01:06:41
But the fact that it got changed. 01:06:42
As early as before 1926, Hello. 01:06:45
50 years and older. 01:06:49
50 years from now. 01:06:51
Going back? 01:06:54
Makes 1926. 01:06:56
An eligible building. 01:06:59
So we shouldn't be. 01:07:01
Throwing those buildings out. 01:07:04
Or off the HRI. 01:07:06
I don't think it qualifies because of the aluminum windows. 01:07:09
Thank you. 01:07:12
Thank you. 01:07:14
Well. 01:07:16
Any other? 01:07:18
We have no other commenters. 01:07:20
The other hands, Alright, closing public comment, back for comment and we'll start. 01:07:28
But Mr. Steers this time. 01:07:33
I agree with this proposal that it should be removed from the HR I, mostly because of the window treatments or. 01:07:35
Not historic at all. 01:07:44
And the porch enclosure is also not historic. Those are newer. 01:07:46
And. 01:07:52
Nice, but not in character with the. 01:07:53
History of the. 01:07:57
Cindy. 01:07:59
Joe. 01:08:02
Yes, I agree, the whole front has been changed and. 01:08:06
It needs to come off. 01:08:09
And I agree as well. So I mean, we have a motion. 01:08:12
On this. 01:08:16
Project. 01:08:17
172 Pacific. 01:08:19
I'll move that we. 01:08:22
Vote yes on this proposal to remove it from the HR I I second sort of a double negative or something Ohh. I want it. I like it 01:08:24
positive. OK let me we have vice chair Sears. 01:08:30
Aye. 01:08:37
Member Grannis. 01:08:39
Chair Anton. 01:08:42
I. 01:08:43
And remember, please. 01:08:45
4I0 nays. 01:08:48
One recused, 1 absent. 01:08:51
Motion passes. 01:08:53
All right, now here, get to the. 01:08:57
Really fun part because I have to recuse, but I will go out and bring in. 01:08:59
Missus missus greening. 01:09:06
And I will see you later. 01:09:09
I'll turn. 01:09:13
Ohh OK. 01:09:15
Surprise. 01:09:17
All right, this is the. 01:09:22
Motion to remove 111 Grand Ave. from the HRI. 01:09:24
Do we have a report? 01:09:31
The item before you is the removal of. 01:09:34
111 Grand Ave. from the Historic Resource Inventory. 01:09:37
City records indicate the building was constructed. 01:09:42
In 1905, per Page and Turnbull and their evaluation notes include. 01:09:45
Says it's not shown on 1905 Sanborn. 01:09:52
But may have been built soon after. 01:09:55
1914 Sanborn map indicates an open porch at the northwest corner. 01:09:58
And on the South facade. 01:10:03
After 1962, the front porch was enclosed. 01:10:06
But set back from the Ballister and posts which were left in place. 01:10:09
A second story edition is set back from the primary facade. 01:10:14
Commutative additions. 01:10:19
Have a loss of historic integrity. 01:10:23
That. 01:10:27
Page and Turnbull's recommendation is to remove the property from the HR I. Therefore, staff recommendation is to remove the 01:10:28
property from the HRI. 01:10:32
This includes my staff report and I'm available to answer any questions. 01:10:37
Thank you. 01:10:41
OK. 01:10:42
Do we have any comments from the? 01:10:44
Audience. 01:10:48
That includes the the online audience as well as the we have. At least that's Gianni online. 01:10:53
Let's let's hear from Lisa Chiani then. 01:11:00
Thank you. 01:11:04
I. 01:11:06
Wouldn't recommend removing this. 01:11:08
Reading. 01:11:11
Page in Turnbulls Evaluation notes. 01:11:12
On the DPR continuation sheet, which which Garrett just just read. 01:11:15
Umm. 01:11:21
The things it's saying. 01:11:23
As if they are. 01:11:25
Detracting from its. 01:11:27
Integrity of don't seem to me to be detractions. 01:11:29
It says. 01:11:36
The 1914 Sanborn map indicates an open porch at the northwest corner and on the South facade. 01:11:37
After 1962, the front porch was enclosed. 01:11:44
Like, no big deal, but it says. But set back from the baluster and post which were left in place, That's a good thing, isn't it? 01:11:49
And and the second story addition is set back from the primary facade, also a good thing. 01:11:56
So I I don't see what what would cause it. 01:12:03
To lose integrity. 01:12:08
And I hope you'll retain it. 01:12:10
Thank you. 01:12:13
Thank you. 01:12:14
Do we have any more? 01:12:15
We have Angular rinse and Dumber. 01:12:18
Thank you Vice Chair and committee members. This is exactly why I liken this to Jeannie Burns project here, because I think it 01:12:22
should remain. 01:12:27
Umm. 01:12:33
The porch. 01:12:35
The setback. 01:12:36
Umm. 01:12:38
And it happened a lot further in the past than what's happening today. So if it's supposedly, if her project is, you know, 01:12:39
historic today, this one should certainly remain on the historic list. 01:12:47
Thank you. 01:12:55
Thank you. 01:12:57
We have Tony Chiani. 01:13:01
OK. 01:13:04
The very least, this should be on the neighborhood character list, but I urge you to look at this property in terms of the larger. 01:13:07
Surrounding area. 01:13:15
As a historical district. 01:13:17
Page and Turnbull. 01:13:19
Recommended. 01:13:21
That this area would be a historical district. 01:13:23
It was recommended as a historical district. 01:13:26
In the local coastal program. 01:13:29
Working papers in 1980. 01:13:31
Somehow, the city has. 01:13:37
Failed to implement the historical districts. 01:13:39
I believe. 01:13:43
If this were a historical district. 01:13:44
This property would be a contributing structure. 01:13:47
The additions. 01:13:52
Have allowed the original building to sit forward and proud. 01:13:55
Of the addition. 01:13:59
The fact. 01:14:02
Again. 01:14:03
That. 01:14:04
Properties. 01:14:05
Especially on Windy coastal. 01:14:07
Areas. 01:14:10
Where porches were eventually enclosed. 01:14:11
To create either another warm space or to create a sun, what used to be called sun porches or sunrooms or where lot logical 01:14:15
historical. 01:14:20
Progressions. 01:14:25
Of properties back in the. 01:14:26
First part of the 20th centuries. 01:14:29
I don't understand if this building is connected. 01:14:33
Directly connected to the building. 01:14:36
To the left of it, it's it's viewed in this. 01:14:38
Picture. 01:14:41
I'm sorry I didn't go down there and look. 01:14:42
Um, if it's not. 01:14:44
Then I think it should remain on the HR. I thank you. 01:14:47
Thank you. 01:14:52
We have no other public commenters. 01:14:54
I'm sorry. We do have. No, no, no more, no, no, Sir. 01:14:58
Let's move the let's move it back to the board here. 01:15:03
What does the board have to say? Any comments? 01:15:08
Well, they are two separate structures. I, I, I have gone by there and I I'm. 01:15:12
I'm almost positive they are. 01:15:17
Rick, do you know? 01:15:21
Was it was? 01:15:23
Was the porch like, I mean, was it built that way or was the front? 01:15:26
I couldn't find anything earlier than this myself and we don't have anything in here but. 01:15:32
It was. It appeared to be. 01:15:39
A separate. 01:15:43
Structure. 01:15:44
Standing alone. 01:15:45
But now it's been absorbed into the. 01:15:47
Well, but with the with the hotel or whatever you call it. 01:15:50
Yeah, Excellent. 01:15:53
So I was just thinking looking at the picture, that this part could be. 01:15:55
A front porch, actually. 01:15:59
Yes, probably is, so this was probably added on. 01:16:02
On the side here. 01:16:07
I suppose the entryway, I should imagine, was where the porch was. 01:16:10
So I think that, you know, yeah. 01:16:15
Yeah. 01:16:17
But we don't have any pictures of what it was. So have any indication of it either would be interesting to know because it's kind 01:16:19
of a puzzle. I mean, it's a nice looking place and it is. 01:16:24
Separate. 01:16:30
Umm. 01:16:31
From the other structure. 01:16:32
So I don't know, not knowing the dates those things were done. 01:16:36
It's it's hard to. 01:16:39
It it was remodeled this? 01:16:41
In 86. 01:16:44
Yeah, they they changed, but we don't know what they did, right? 01:16:46
It's got it on here. I remember seeing that, but I don't remember the windows, the Bay windows. 01:16:49
But most of it was. 01:16:57
2nd edition I I think it's just it fits into the character of the. 01:16:59
Yeah. 01:17:06
My feeling is it fits into the character of the district and I've. 01:17:09
Yeah, I think that might be a good idea too. 01:17:13
It is a very nice looking house. 01:17:17
And they've kept it up well. 01:17:20
Any other comments? 01:17:23
I'm not. 01:17:25
I don't have a. 01:17:26
Urgency to put it. 01:17:27
I'm so sorry. 01:17:30
Umm. 01:17:32
I don't have an urgency to keep it on the HR, not like I did on the other ones, but. 01:17:33
I would absolutely think it should be on the neighborhood character list without a doubt. 01:17:38
Yeah, my own feeling is that it should remain on the. 01:17:43
Historic and inventory partly because. It's. 01:17:47
In character with the general appearance and feel of the neighborhood, and it's connected to a much larger building. 01:17:52
And it's. 01:18:03
By the way, it was originally owned by Julia Platt, which. 01:18:05
Umm. 01:18:10
Definitely leads me towards. 01:18:14
Keeping it. 01:18:16
Missed that. So that sways me absolutely to keep it on the HR I absolutely. 01:18:18
So 115 was owned by Julia Platt. 01:18:23
It also says 111 is as well. Yeah, Then we need to keep it, yeah. 01:18:30
Definitely. 01:18:36
There we are. 01:18:38
Do we have a motion? 01:18:40
Make a motion that we keep it on the HR we keep. 01:18:42
111 Grand Ave. on the HRI. 01:18:46
I second it. 01:18:49
Yeah, we have a vote then. I mean, yes. 01:18:52
Member, please. 01:18:56
Member Grannis. 01:18:59
Aye. 01:19:01
Member Greening. 01:19:03
Vice Chair Steers, Aye. 01:19:06
For eyes. 01:19:09
0 nays, 1 absent, 1 recused. 01:19:11
Motion passes. 01:19:15
Thank you. 01:19:17
When do we invite? 01:19:22
No, I think she. 01:19:24
Our chair back in, there's a room. 01:19:26
Ohh. 01:19:28
11 She only recusing for for this one. 01:19:31
Property. 01:19:34
The rest of the property you do, You know The rest of the properties are on Grand Ave. 01:19:36
She'll be out all of this, I think. All of them, because they're all closed together. 01:19:45
Yeah. 01:19:49
We're at 115 grand. 01:19:54
From 1:15 grand. 01:19:59
We're not there yet. 01:20:01
In a second. 01:20:03
All right, 115 grand then. Do we have a staff report? 01:20:05
We do one second. 01:20:12
Alright, I don't know before you is the removal of 115 grand. 01:20:28
Ave. from the Historic Resource Inventory. 01:20:33
City records indicate the building was constructed in 1882. 01:20:36
Per Page and Turnbull. 01:20:42
Their evaluation notes include. 01:20:44
2 1/2 story addition at side and rear facades is highly visible and results in an overall loss of historic integrity. 01:20:47
Front porch has been partially enclosed, so the cumulative alterations have resulted in loss of historic integrity. 01:20:56
Page and Turnbull's recommendation is to remove the property from the HR I. 01:21:04
Therefore Staffs recommendation is to remove the property from the HRI. 01:21:08
This concludes my staff report. I'm available to answer any questions. Thank you. 01:21:13
Thanks. 01:21:22
Do we have? 01:21:23
Comments from the audience. 01:21:24
From from their virtual audience as well. 01:21:28
No. 01:21:32
Jeannie Anton, speaking as a private citizen to this house, I just want to remind you when if you read the packet that this house 01:21:34
was once lived in owned by the First Lady Mayor of Pacific Grove. 01:21:41
Which is one of the criteria for houses to be on the HRI that. 01:21:48
Somebody significant? 01:21:52
Lived and owned. 01:21:55
The house. 01:21:57
It it has some kind of an interesting historical background too, that it originally faced Fountain Ave. 01:21:59
And when they thought that Grand Ave. was going to be the Main Ave. and the PG. 01:22:06
They turned the house around. 01:22:12
Yes, it has been added on to, but if you went to look at the house, you'll see that it's. 01:22:14
It's a very lovely single family dwelling now. 01:22:20
Been brought back to. 01:22:23
A lovely state from once being a. 01:22:26
Kind of a beat up Fourplex. 01:22:29
So I just wanted to call that to your attention. 01:22:31
I think it should stay on the HR I. 01:22:35
Thank you. Thank you. 01:22:37
We have Pony Chiani online. 01:22:43
Well, OK, let's go with it. 01:22:47
Good afternoon. I think this is one of those cases that that. 01:22:50
That as you pointed out on the one just before this. 01:22:54
The consultants. 01:22:59
If you look at their report. 01:23:02
Acknowledge that they didn't do the historical. 01:23:03
Research on these properties. 01:23:06
These were primarily done. 01:23:08
As a windshield survey. 01:23:10
Or a walk in survey. 01:23:12
So they don't have the historical background. 01:23:14
To. 01:23:17
Support. 01:23:19
Or not support. 01:23:20
Listing of a building. 01:23:22
Regardless of its architectural character. 01:23:24
Umm. 01:23:27
This looks like Jeannie Byrne did it. 01:23:28
With all due respect, maybe it was Jeannie Burns, grandmother. 01:23:32
But. 01:23:37
This building should stay on. 01:23:37
The Historical HR I. 01:23:40
I strongly urge you to do that. Thank you. 01:23:43
Else. 01:23:50
With Lisa Channing. 01:23:53
Thank you on page and Turnbulls 2018 DPR form. 01:23:57
Their evaluation note says. 01:24:03
That. 01:24:06
A 2.5 story addition at side and rear facades is highly visible and results in an overall lot. 01:24:07
Excuse me, Loss of historic integrity. 01:24:15
Front porch has been partially enclosed. 01:24:18
Cumulative alterations have resulted in loss of historic integrity. 01:24:21
Well, if you then if you look at the 1977. 01:24:26
DPR form. 01:24:31
When it was originally listed. 01:24:34
And you compare the photographs. I mean, there is a a large. 01:24:38
Tree. 01:24:44
Sort of on the left side, but. 01:24:46
In the current. 01:24:48
Photo. 01:24:49
But. 01:24:50
So much looks. 01:24:52
The same that I don't quite get how. 01:24:54
How the? 01:24:58
Large. 01:24:59
Umm. 01:25:01
Addition, you know is. 01:25:03
It detracts from it. 01:25:06
Umm. 01:25:08
Anyway, I think it's a. 01:25:09
Um. 01:25:12
A very fine. 01:25:15
Historical home and and hearing that it also was. 01:25:16
First lived in by historical. 01:25:23
For person in PG a very historical very important historical person I would keep it on the HR I&I hope you will thank you. 01:25:26
Thank you. 01:25:37
Anyone else? We have Inga Lorenzen dummer. 01:25:40
OK, let's hear from her. 01:25:43
Thank you. 01:25:45
Umm. 01:25:47
How can you get more historic and Pacific Grove and Julia Platt? I don't know. So let's keep it on and keep it going going. 01:25:49
Thank you very much. 01:25:59
Are we done with? 01:26:05
Public input? No, they're hands raised. 01:26:07
Oh. 01:26:10
Let's bring it back to the board then. 01:26:13
Comments. 01:26:15
I'm convinced to keep it on. 01:26:16
Same here. 01:26:18
You too. 01:26:21
I too am convinced to keep it on. It was originally owned and built by George Laws in 1882. We haven't mentioned that Julia Platt 01:26:24
bought it later. 01:26:30
And she is the she bought the whole property from one St. to the other, and she's the one who turned it around. 01:26:37
And the confused Some confusion arises from the fact that the address changed when you did that, but it's the same house. 01:26:46
And. 01:26:54
For all the reasons that have already been. 01:26:56
Umm. 01:26:58
Talked about, I completely agree that we should keep it on the historic inventory, please. 01:27:01
Do we have a motion? 01:27:07
I move that we keep one. 01:27:09
15 grand on the HRI. 01:27:12
I'll second. 01:27:16
Do we have a vote then? 01:27:19
Umm. 01:27:22
Member Grannis. 01:27:23
Aye. 01:27:25
Remember Greening? 01:27:27
Vice chair steers. 01:27:30
Aye. 01:27:31
Remember Cleese? 01:27:33
Or eyes 0 nays. 01:27:35
One absent. 01:27:38
One recused motion passes. 01:27:39
OK. 01:27:47
Are we? 01:27:51
No. 01:27:55
The next two houses, 118 grand and 122 grand, are pretty close together is. 01:27:56
Is Jeannie Anton still recusing? 01:28:02
I believe so. Let me go check real quick. 01:28:06
Yes. 01:28:10
OK. 01:28:11
And we need a staff report on 118 grand. 01:28:13
The item before you is the removal of 118 Grand Ave. from the Historic Resource Inventory. 01:28:18
City records indicate the building was constructed in 1885. 01:28:24
Per Page and Turnbull. 01:28:29
Their evaluation notes include. 01:28:31
Sanborn maps indicate. 01:28:35
That the building was originally originally square plan with a rear projecting Bay. 01:28:37
Between 1905 and 1914, a Bay window was added to the front facade. 01:28:43
An open porch added to the north corner. 01:28:49
And expand it at the rear. 01:28:52
At an unknown date later after 1962, the front porch. 01:28:54
Was enclosed. 01:28:59
Alteration of the chimney and replacement of cladding with wood shingles. 01:29:01
Which would not have been original or additional alterations. 01:29:06
Cumulative alterations and additions result in a loss of integrity. 01:29:10
Page and Turnbull's recommendation is to remove the property from the HR I. Therefore, staff recommendation is to remove the 01:29:16
property from the HRI. 01:29:19
This concludes my staff report. I'm available to answer any questions. 01:29:24
Any comments from our? 01:29:33
In house. 01:29:35
Audience or our online audience? 01:29:36
We have Tony Chiani online. 01:29:41
I I urge the committee to keep this or to recommend this for the. 01:29:44
Neighborhood character list. Thank you. 01:29:50
Yeah. 01:29:54
What else? 01:29:56
We have Lisa Gianni on line. 01:29:58
Well, you know, in reading the 1977 DPR. 01:30:03
1. 01:30:09
What? 01:30:10
And. 01:30:11
By then it had. 01:30:12
The. 01:30:15
The shingle siding. 01:30:17
You know it's it. 01:30:20
I don't. 01:30:22
Wait, it is interesting that the change in the in the. 01:30:24
Chimney but. 01:30:28
It's it says The style of the building is that of the typical sea cottage of Pacific Grove, which is characterized by its 01:30:32
simplicity and form. 01:30:36
And. 01:30:41
OK, they they have made. 01:30:44
Changes. 01:30:47
But. 01:30:48
I I I don't know. I I will leave this one up to you, but I I'm not. 01:30:49
Sure, it's absolutely clear. 01:30:57
That. 01:31:00
That this should be removed. 01:31:02
I I would. 01:31:04
I would retain it if. 01:31:05
I were on the HRC. Thank you. 01:31:07
Thank you. 01:31:11
We have Angular, Rinse and Dahmer online. 01:31:14
Please. 01:31:16
Thank you. 01:31:18
I would retain it. 01:31:20
Or at the very very least, put it on the neighbourhood character list. 01:31:21
It does have. 01:31:27
You know. 01:31:29
It's up to you. 01:31:31
Thank you. 01:31:33
Thank you. 01:31:34
We have no other online commenters. 01:31:38
OK. 01:31:40
Bringing it back because they're bored? Then do we have comments? 01:31:41
I am not in favor of keeping it. I think that picture window has just changed the whole look of the whole house. 01:31:46
And if I look back at the older, there's an an older picture. 01:31:53
Umm, in our packet and to me it doesn't even look the same, so I I wouldn't want to keep an eye. 01:31:58
Yes, I think there is a a very major alteration to the chimney too. 01:32:09
With the the bold, the original one was. 01:32:14
Very unique to Pacific Grove, but they've changed the top of the chimney. 01:32:17
I would still keep it on the. 01:32:22
Neighbourhood. 01:32:24
List even if we don't keep it on the. 01:32:26
The historic. 01:32:30
And on the inventory? 01:32:31
I would agree with that. 01:32:36
With the two other committee members. 01:32:37
Yeah. 01:32:40
The window does make quite a difference. 01:32:43
Surprise. 01:32:45
And they. 01:32:45
Winters as well. 01:32:46
I would be, yeah. I would be inclined to keep it on the. 01:32:48
Historic inventory because all of those changes. 01:32:52
Have always been in character with the original and the changes have been. 01:32:58
One of the the Excuse me the Bay window was in 1914. 01:33:05
Which is early enough to be within the historic period. 01:33:11
Umm. 01:33:15
The period of historic significance. That's the correct term. 01:33:17
And the. 01:33:23
And closure of the porch. You're right, the windows are different. 01:33:25
But I'm satisfied that it's within the character of the. 01:33:32
Of the house, the original house, and within the character of the neighborhood that. 01:33:38
I'm leaning towards keeping it on the HRI so. 01:33:44
I can be swayed. Do we have a Do we have a proposal? 01:33:48
I can be swayed absolutely. 01:33:53
Is. I'd rather err on the side of keeping it. 01:33:55
If if it's a question, then. 01:33:58
Eliminating it so. 01:34:01
Well, I'll make a proposal then, that we. 01:34:03
Umm. 01:34:07
Say no to this proposal, which was to to remove it from the HR I, In other words, keeping it on the historic inventory. 01:34:08
Entirely. 01:34:18
That's my proposal. Do we have a second? 01:34:19
I'll second it. 01:34:22
So what exactly? In other words, they keep it on the HRI. 01:34:23
That is the motion to keep it on the HR. 01:34:27
So would it be an over if you're not going? 01:34:29
It it's confusing that way, Yeah, it's. 01:34:31
The proposal was to take it off. I'm saying no, don't take it off. 01:34:34
Gets confusing though. I would say yes. 01:34:39
Well, let's just. 01:34:41
Can I reframe the motion? May I go right ahead? Then I will make the motion. I make the motion to retain it on the HRI property 01:34:43
118 Grand Ave. 01:34:48
I'll second it. 01:34:56
And we have a vote. 01:34:58
Member, please. 01:35:01
Vice chair steers. 01:35:04
Member Greening. 01:35:07
Remember Grannis? No. 01:35:10
All right. We have three nose. Ohh. Sorry. 01:35:15
Three eyes. 01:35:19
One No. 01:35:20
One absent. 01:35:23
One recused. 01:35:24
And I believe the motion fails. 01:35:26
And how? 01:35:32
Alright. 01:35:33
Yes. 01:35:34
It's tricky because I think when we looked at the recommendation was to take it off if. 01:35:36
There was a motion. 01:35:43
To. 01:35:45
A failed motion means it stays on because we should, I think maybe if we if we did. 01:35:47
Another motion to remove it. 01:35:53
Have it on there. I hate to say it on the negative side, but go with. 01:35:57
What? What was recommended then? 01:36:00
Everyone. 01:36:03
I guess but the whole. 01:36:06
You can't. It's it's difficult to say let's not remove it when it's already on there. So you say let's you you made a motion to to 01:36:08
keep it on and everyone and to retain it. 01:36:14
But the the the fact that the motion fails doesn't remove it from the HR I because it has to be a motion to actually remove it 01:36:20
from the HR I. So if you were to redo that motion. 01:36:26
And have it as a removal. And there was one. 01:36:33
One eye to remove it and three nays and the motion would fail and it would remain on the HR I. So I would recommend to do one more 01:36:39
motion. 01:36:43
To. 01:36:48
Follow the recommendation the motion or or to the someone make. 01:36:49
If someone was so inclined to make a motion or it could also die I suppose if that if one if then you wouldn't have it. Logically 01:36:54
if he wouldn't want to wouldn't have a he would have a second Yeah that would be a problem. I'll move again that we we remove it 01:37:00
from the HR I but put it on the. 01:37:07
The neighbourhood character that's that's reframing what we had originally voted on, so. 01:37:14
I I think therein lies a conundrum of. 01:37:21
We bring it back to staff because however that works, that we. 01:37:24
Three of us, because we don't have a second. 01:37:28
That's kind of up to you staff policy, but I don't believe that it should be reframed to have us say something that we didn't 01:37:30
originally say. 01:37:33
That's fair. 01:37:37
Perhaps another alternative is to simply bring this item back, trail this item, and then bring it back where we consider more 01:37:42
houses for removal from the list. 01:37:46
When you have a full. 01:37:53
Yeah, yes. Well, we've got another person here that has. 01:37:55
All right. 01:37:58
Oh. 01:38:00
I'll make another motion to continue it. 01:38:02
Until the point when we have more. 01:38:06
A larger group of on the on the board that is voting. 01:38:09
Yes, second. 01:38:15
You're looking doubtful. All right, vice chair steers. 01:38:19
Ohh is that a vote? Yes. 01:38:26
We can simply get a vote of your committee to continue the item. 01:38:33
A motion and a vote to continue the item. 01:38:38
Make a motion that we continue this item until to a date unspecified. 01:38:44
OK. 01:38:50
Do we have a second? I'll second it. 01:38:51
OK. 01:38:54
Remember, please. 01:38:56
Vice Chair Steers, Aye. 01:38:59
Member Greening. 01:39:02
Member Grannis. 01:39:04
Aye. 01:39:06
We have four eyes, 0 nays. 01:39:07
One absent 1 recused motion passes. 01:39:10
OK. Thank you. 01:39:17
122 Grand Ave. 01:39:22
Well, that's the end of the agenda. She wants to go home. She could do one more. 01:39:31
Listen. 01:39:37
122 grand, but she's. 01:39:38
Recusing herself. 01:39:40
Yeah, Chair Anton is recused for this item for all of the houses on Grant. 01:39:43
That's our last. 01:39:48
Yeah. 01:39:50
That's the last item you have to close the meeting. 01:39:51
As the chair. 01:39:53
OK. 01:39:55
The other way. 01:39:58
We have. 01:39:59
We have one one more item left. 01:40:00
All right. 122 grand. 01:40:05
All right, the item before you is the removal of 122 Grand Ave. from the Historic Resources Inventory. 01:40:07
City records indicate the building was constructed. 01:40:17
In 1905, per Page and Turnbull, the revaluation notes include. 01:40:24
The large addition obscures original form and design of the residents. Cumulative alterations, including additions and inclosed 01:40:31
porch, results in loss of historic integrity. 01:40:37
Page and Turnbull's recommendation is to remove the property from the HR, therefore. 01:40:44
Staff recommendation is to remove the property from the HRI. 01:40:48
This concludes my staff report and I'm available for any questions. 01:40:52
Thank you. 01:40:57
You look like you wanna say something. 01:40:59
OK. 01:41:04
And umm. 01:41:07
Let's hear from the. 01:41:10
Audience including the. 01:41:12
Online audience. 01:41:16
Are there any comments? 01:41:19
We have Lisa Chiani. 01:41:21
Thank you. 01:41:25
Well, there is in the cities records at least no 1977 DPR form we compare. 01:41:26
The. 01:41:35
2018. 01:41:36
DPR form. 01:41:38
2. 01:41:39
It. 01:41:42
Looks like it may not. 01:41:43
Be eligible to stay on the HR I but. 01:41:49
Anybody could change my mind easily? Thank you. 01:41:53
Thank you. 01:41:57
We have Tony Chiani. 01:42:01
OK. 01:42:03
It's interesting that it wasn't on the 1977 list. 01:42:07
But. 01:42:10
You wonder how it got on here. 01:42:11
If it's on the HRI now. 01:42:15
I would recommend that you keep it under. 01:42:18
It appears. 01:42:21
By the photographs. 01:42:23
In the report by Page and Turnbull. 01:42:25
That there was a second floor addition to the property. 01:42:27
Umm. 01:42:31
It looks like the the addition was. 01:42:32
In character, the original building. 01:42:35
It's set back. 01:42:38
It doesn't overwhelm it. 01:42:41
I see no reason not to keep it on. 01:42:43
I recommend you keep it on. 01:42:46
Thank you. 01:42:48
Thank you. 01:42:50
Do we have any other? 01:42:51
Yes, we do. We have Angular, Rinse and Dahmer. 01:42:53
OK. 01:42:56
This is another one that at the very least, keep it on the neighborhood character. It certainly is neighborhood character. 01:42:58
And. 01:43:07
In absence of that other form, the DPR form I. 01:43:08
Leave questions. 01:43:14
To whether it should remain or not. 01:43:16
Thank you. 01:43:18
Thank you. 01:43:20
We have no other commenters. 01:43:23
OK. We'll bring it back to the board. Comments anybody. 01:43:24
Well, I guess I'm a stickler for Windows, because I I do think these windows that are in there now. 01:43:34
Are completely different from. 01:43:40
Umm. 01:43:43
What was there before? 01:43:44
And of course, the little. 01:43:46
Umm. 01:43:48
Gabbling up on the top. 01:43:49
Is different. I I don't know how I really feel about this. I'd rather hear from the rest of you right now. 01:43:53
Anyone else? 01:44:00
Well, I'll chime in while you. 01:44:05
Think about it. 01:44:07
Alright. 01:44:09
I have to agree with the page and Turnbulls assessment that. 01:44:10
Even though it's a very handsome building and it's. 01:44:16
Generally in historic integrity with the neighborhood, it's not in a. 01:44:20
It's been so vastly changed. 01:44:25
And the front of it that it really has to be removed from the historic inventory. 01:44:28
But said certainly beyond the neighborhood character list. That's my point of view. 01:44:34
Agree with that. 01:44:41
Yes, so would I. 01:44:44
I would. 01:44:45
Would agree. 01:44:47
I think there's too many changes done. 01:44:49
To keep it on the HRI, but I think it has the character of the neighbourhood. 01:44:52
Would you like to make a motion? 01:44:58
I move that we remove. I move that we remove 122 Grand Ave. from the HRI list. But consider putting it on the neighborhood watch. 01:45:04
I mean character, sorry. 01:45:15
Too many neighborhood things. I'll second that, yes. 01:45:19
Member Grannis. 01:45:29
Did you get a second? 01:45:31
Yes. 01:45:33
Yes. 01:45:35
Vice Chair Steers, Aye. 01:45:37
Remember Greening? 01:45:40
Member, please. 01:45:43
We have four eyes, 0 nays. 01:45:45
One absent, 1 recused. 01:45:48
Motion passes. 01:45:51
Thank you. 01:45:53
Thank you. 01:45:54
We'll have Jeannie Anton. 01:45:57
Pick up her chair as. 01:46:06
Yeah. 01:46:08
All right, Good job. 01:46:10
So that does conclude our business, I believe. 01:46:13
So do we have any reason to? 01:46:17
Hold up the meeting any longer. 01:46:20
Alright, thank you. Thank all three of you really for being here that's that's great support for us and. 01:46:23
I will make a motion. 01:46:30
Do we need a motion? Can I just declare the meeting? 01:46:33
I'm sorry, Garrett, you have something, maybe just another reminder about the special meeting on November 15th? 01:46:36
20/23 at 1:00 PM. 01:46:43
Thank you. And and we're calling it a special meeting because it's not at our normal time. 01:46:46
I mean, aside from that, it's not like. 01:46:50
Anything out of the usual, it's just a different time. Everybody understands. 01:46:53
OK, all right. I declare the meeting adjourned. 01:46:58
Thank you. 01:47:02
Thank you for coming. 01:47:03
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I'd like to call to order. 00:00:00
The October 25th, 2023. 00:00:02
Meeting of the Historic Resources Committee. 00:00:05
Like to call it to order? 00:00:08
And may we have a roll call vote please. 00:00:11
Chair. Anton, the roll call, please. 00:00:13
Chair Anton. 00:00:16
And the president? 00:00:18
Vice Chair Sears here. 00:00:20
Member Greening. 00:00:22
Member Grannis. 00:00:25
Member, please. 00:00:27
Member Bickett. 00:00:30
We have. 00:00:34
Five members present, one member absent. 00:00:35
And one vacancy. 00:00:39
Thank you. 00:00:40
And. 00:00:42
Any questions on the agenda? 00:00:44
May we have a? 00:00:47
Motion to approve the agenda, please. 00:00:50
2nd. 00:00:55
May we have a vote please? 00:00:57
Member Grannis. 00:01:00
Member Grannis. 00:01:04
Vice chair steers. 00:01:06
Here, yes. 00:01:08
Chair Anton. 00:01:10
Yes. 00:01:12
Member Greening Yes. 00:01:13
Member, please. 00:01:17
Motion passes. 00:01:20
5 to 0. 00:01:22
One vacancy. 00:01:25
Thank you. 00:01:26
One absent. 00:01:27
And do we have any staff announcements? 00:01:29
Yes, I have one. 00:01:31
A staff announcement. 00:01:32
You're Mr. SO. 00:01:35
Yes, we do have one staff announcement. 00:01:38
Staff would like to introduce the new Community Development Department Interim Director Lou Bauman. 00:01:41
Thank you for being here. Thank you and welcome Madam Chair Board members, a pleasure to be here and. 00:01:50
Before I joined, I was the county administrator with Monterey County for 14 years of public works director before that. 00:01:56
And then I had the pleasure to serve with the Monterey County Water Resources Agency. 00:02:03
During last winter's floods. 00:02:08
And then also the privilege to serve as the general manager for the Monterey Peninsula Regional Park District during a brief 00:02:10
recess by that general manager. So it's a pleasure to join your city and help facilitate the transition to a permanent director. 00:02:19
Create that. Thank you very much. Thank you, welcome. 00:02:29
And do we have any committee announcements? 00:02:36
Yes, that would be. 00:02:39
That would be you. I just wanted to say I'm. 00:02:40
I with some sadness I. 00:02:43
I am announcing my resignation from the Historic Resources Committee. 00:02:45
This committee, I've been on it, I think about five years if I do my timing right, and I have loved it dearly. It's been such a 00:02:50
value to me. 00:02:53
Those of you who know me, my story is not cancer. 00:02:57
I love my kids. I'm working full time and it's just a lot. 00:03:00
But my kids are. I'm working in a title one school. It's a very. 00:03:04
Umm. 00:03:09
Underprivileged school, if I may say. They're very challenged and if you will give me a bit of indulgent, I've got a very haiku 00:03:10
ish type poem that my kids, my writing kids wrote and it's a little bit with the ocean. 00:03:16
It's called the poem by 9 year olds. 00:03:22
Beach waves crash at Ocean's edge. 00:03:24
Against sand, soft is powdered sugar. 00:03:27
A breeze shakes nearby palm trees by water. So clear. 00:03:30
A speck of dust shows itself from deep within. 00:03:34
And I just want to say thank you. I would wish that the the minutes maybe got here a little bit sooner for those who are working 00:03:38
on them. And also I hope you replaced me with the secretary and I have loved being here. 00:03:43
Thank you very much. 00:03:49
I hope you're staying for the meeting. Yes, of course. I'll take notes and I'll give them to the new person. 00:03:52
Yeah. 00:03:58
This is news to me, so thank you. And thank you for that's my letter of resignation right there. 00:03:59
Umm. 00:04:06
Any others from other people? 00:04:07
I just had a couple of things. One is just. 00:04:09
And this kind of relates to Mr. Bowen being present, but you know we've had some changes in our staff upstairs and I just would 00:04:12
like. 00:04:16
To ask everybody to just be patient. 00:04:21
And I know that Mister Bellman will get things sorted out and. 00:04:24
As we've had some changes lately so. 00:04:28
We appreciate your working together and I think we're looking ahead. That's going to go very well. 00:04:32
Umm. 00:04:38
I also want to thank Garrett. I'd like to thank you for making our packets available on weekends. 00:04:40
If we don't get in to get them on Friday afternoon or sometimes forget. 00:04:46
You make them available to us and I appreciate that and. 00:04:52
Gives us more time to look them over. 00:04:55
I also want to remind. 00:04:58
Everybody here and the audience that are. 00:05:02
November and December meetings will be at a different time and a different usually where the fourth Wednesday that they will be 00:05:04
the third Wednesday. 00:05:08
And because that is the night of City Council, the meetings will be from 1:00 to 3:00 on those two. 00:05:13
Dates. 00:05:19
So November 15th and December 20th. 00:05:20
It just got too well. One was going to be the day before Thanksgiving and. 00:05:23
The other one right after Christmas so. 00:05:28
With everybody's. 00:05:30
Approval Here we decided to make a change. 00:05:32
So they'll be a week earlier and they'll be from 1:00 to 3:00. 00:05:36
So those are my announcements. 00:05:40
Do we have? 00:05:43
Our Council liaison present. Thank you Mayor Pete for being here. 00:05:45
It's thank you. Good afternoon Chair and Tom and thank you for committee members for being here this afternoon and and serving and 00:05:55
welcome to Mr. Bauman for coming and helping us out as CDC Director and. 00:06:04
Goodbye and best wishes to. 00:06:14
To chill, Thank you for serving so much. I've loved it. 00:06:17
Understandable. 00:06:21
What Council has done of significance, most recently was to direct staff. 00:06:25
To transmit the draft housing element. 00:06:31
To the state, the state's Housing and Community Development Department, where they will take a look at it. 00:06:36
And suggest any changes that they. 00:06:44
Desire. 00:06:49
Ultimately leading to certification of that housing element for us probably in. 00:06:50
In the beginning spring of next year. 00:06:59
And upcoming items. 00:07:03
Council will be talking about cannabis. 00:07:06
And possibly passing a cannabis ordinance. And we're also looking forward to a new interim city manager that will be announced. 00:07:09
For the next council meeting. 00:07:21
Thank you again for your service. 00:07:24
Thank you. 00:07:26
Sorry. 00:07:29
The draft housing. 00:07:30
Whatever you call it. 00:07:33
Draft Housing element, Is it available? 00:07:34
To see. 00:07:38
By the public now. 00:07:39
Yes, I certainly so it was presented. 00:07:41
At a couple of planning the. 00:07:45
Couple of Planning Commission meetings and. 00:07:48
Also at the the last City Council meeting so you can go online and get access, I think if you go to the housing web page, there's 00:07:51
there's a the link to the document. It is 400 pages long. So I just warn you on that and council did make. 00:08:00
Some recommendations? 00:08:10
Umm, and let's see, we approved the recommendations of the. 00:08:12
Planning Commission to remove. 00:08:20
The Noah Building. 00:08:22
From consideration also the Community Center, I think those. 00:08:24
To the 2. 00:08:31
Items that the community is most. 00:08:32
Concerned about. 00:08:36
Yeah, OK. 00:08:37
Thank you. 00:08:40
All right. The next item is general public comment. 00:08:46
This must deal with matters that are under the jurisdiction. 00:08:50
Of the Historic Resources Committee. 00:08:53
And the city that are not on the regular agenda. 00:08:55
So I will open first to public comment from the audience that is present. 00:08:59
Seeing none do we have any virtual audience? We have Angle, Lawrence and Dumber. 00:09:07
Chair Antonin Committee members. 00:09:16
I too want to welcome. 00:09:19
Lou Bowman. 00:09:21
Although we couldn't see because of course the Zoom audience doesn't have a camera angle on on him. But welcome and I look forward 00:09:23
to getting some things straightened out. 00:09:28
And I had a question of. 00:09:34
Of Well, yes. Or an observation and a request of that when the property files are scanned in. 00:09:37
So that we can see them online. 00:09:46
Umm. 00:09:49
Unfortunately they're scanned many times upside down, sideways, and the problem too is they're layered on top of each other, so we 00:09:50
never can really see. 00:09:55
The whole thing, and I'm wondering if that could be rectified by staff when they're attached to the agenda items, because it would 00:10:02
be most helpful. 00:10:07
To be able to. 00:10:13
Figure out what's really there. 00:10:16
Thank you very much. 00:10:19
Thank you. 00:10:21
We have no other. 00:10:28
All right. That's good. 00:10:30
She just spoke. 00:10:34
Ohh. 00:10:35
OK. 00:10:48
I will then close public comment and move to the consent agenda. 00:10:49
Is there a? Does anybody? 00:10:54
On the committee wish to pull an item from the consent agenda. 00:10:56
Does anybody from the audience wish to pull an item from the consent agenda? 00:11:02
Seeing none, can I say that? 00:11:18
OK. I'm just waiting for an honor. OK, seeing none, can we have a motion to approve the consent agenda? 00:11:21
I'll make a motion to approve the consent agenda. 00:11:30
I'll second. 00:11:34
And before we vote, I just want to comment that the reason the August Minutes are on here is because we didn't. 00:11:37
Approve them. Last time there needed to be a correction and it nothing happened, it didn't get it. They didn't get approved or 00:11:44
not. The correction has been made so. 00:11:48
That's why they're on there twice. 00:11:53
So can we have a vote please? 00:11:55
Vice chair steers. 00:11:59
Aye. 00:12:00
Member Greening. 00:12:02
Member Grannis. 00:12:05
Aye. 00:12:06
Member, please. 00:12:07
Aye. 00:12:08
Chair Anton. Hi. 00:12:11
We have Five Eyes, 0 nays and one absent 1 vacancy. 00:12:13
Motion passes. 00:12:19
Thank you. All right, we move to the regular agenda. First item is item 8A. 00:12:20
Architectural permit for 143 8th St. 00:12:26
And may we have a staff report please? 00:12:30
Good afternoon, Chair Anton and committee members. 00:12:36
The proposed project includes. 00:12:39
Remodeling an existing nonconforming 900 square foot, one story single family residence and the construction of a two-story 00:12:41
addition. 00:12:46
Adjacent to the existing residence. 00:12:51
The two-story addition includes. 00:12:53
A 165 square foot first floor. 00:12:56
821 square foot, Second story with a rooftop deck. 00:12:59
And a 291 square foot attached garage. 00:13:03
The applicant also proposes to construct a 495 square foot first floor attached AU. 00:13:07
Per state law. 00:13:14
Per state law. 00:13:15
The AU is ministerially approved because it meets the state law and Pacific Grove AU Ordinance Developmental Standards. 00:13:17
The resulting structure will include 2636 square feet spread across two stories. 00:13:24
And an attached garage. 00:13:31
The additions without the AU would result in 2177 square feet spread across two stories. 00:13:33
And an attached garage. 00:13:40
On September 27th. 00:13:42
2023 The Historic Resources Committee. 00:13:44
Considered the proposed project and voted to continue the project to a date uncertain. 00:13:48
With the recommendation of redesigning the front porch of the existing structure. 00:13:53
In response to the HRC's recommendation. 00:13:58
The applicant has prepared an alternative. 00:14:01
Design of the front porch, which includes minimizing the size of the porch as well as centering the porch. 00:14:04
Over the windows and door. 00:14:10
Staff recommends the Historic Resources Committee approve AP23-0097 subject to the findings, Conditions of Approval. 00:14:12
And section 15301. 00:14:22
Class one and section 15. 00:14:25
3. 00:14:27
31 Class 31. 00:14:28
Categorical exemptions for existing facilities and historical restoration. 00:14:31
Rehabilitation, respectively. 00:14:36
I'm available for questions as well as the applicant. 00:14:39
Thank you. 00:14:41
Thank you very much. 00:14:42
And we would like to hear from the. 00:14:44
Architect. 00:14:47
Thank you. 00:14:49
Good afternoon. Jeannie Byrne, Architect and I also have Paul Simpson. 00:14:53
Who's the project architect on this? 00:14:58
So. 00:15:01
Would really like to thank you for some of your comments from the last meeting because it gave us the opportunity to. 00:15:02
Kind of reconfigure that front porch. 00:15:09
And be more specific about maintaining the historic windows and door. 00:15:11
Which is kind of. 00:15:16
The real feature for why? 00:15:17
This canopy is being proposed. 00:15:20
If you looked at some of the historic pictures, including the most recent one that was around. 00:15:23
19501960. 00:15:29
This is probably the least the third rendition of this front porch. 00:15:31
Canopy. 00:15:35
So. 00:15:37
And we're proceeding with the real rehabilitation standards for the Secretary of the Interior standards. 00:15:38
And we've had. 00:15:45
Historian can't see me review it. 00:15:48
So I'll let Paul be very specific about the configuration of the. 00:15:50
The new configuration of the front porch that was submitted to you. 00:15:56
Ohh, and we also wanted to reserve some time to answer any comments or questions. 00:16:02
Thanks. 00:16:07
And community members. 00:16:17
You have the. 00:16:19
Right. 00:16:24
Hopefully you all had a chance to review the elevation we submitted so. 00:16:25
Part of the as Jeannie said the. 00:16:30
Real concern from the from the homeowner that they expressed to us was the. 00:16:33
Preservation of the existing windows and door Which? 00:16:38
Or get a good battering every winter. 00:16:42
Took it with increasing storms because last winter. 00:16:45
They're pretty much make them inoperable due to, you know, swelling and and so on, So protecting those doors, the original. 00:16:49
Windows and Door is something they really wanted. 00:16:56
Would like to want to do. 00:17:00
And maybe preserving the the facade of the building. 00:17:03
So the existing front porch as Jeannie mentioned based on that on the photo that the owners. 00:17:07
Found from roughly 1950s or so. 00:17:15
Show that the. 00:17:18
The railings have gone through, you know. 00:17:20
There's a couple of renditions. 00:17:23
That doesn't represent doesn't. 00:17:25
Replicate what's there currently. 00:17:27
So it has been redone over the years. 00:17:29
And So what we are proposing to do is to increase the coverage to protect the windows extended so it protects the windows. 00:17:34
And but we will maintain the applied. 00:17:43
Callums, do you have a photo? 00:17:46
Ohh. 00:17:50
Yes. 00:17:51
There are applied columns on either side of the of the door onto the wall. 00:17:53
And we propose will be keeping those. 00:17:58
And then the new columns are are. 00:18:01
Directly in front of it. 00:18:03
Will be replicating the existing columns and then the additional. 00:18:05
Columns to the outer edges. 00:18:11
Will likewise. 00:18:13
Replicate the existing columns. 00:18:14
So it will maintain. 00:18:17
Some of the character and maintaining the existing ones at the house face. 00:18:20
Turning the stairs to the side. 00:18:25
Allows us to bring those stairs into code compliance for the riser height and so on to allow for. 00:18:29
Safer. 00:18:36
You know, entrance and an exit. 00:18:37
And. 00:18:41
Centering the whole design. 00:18:45
Helps to. 00:18:48
Show the the face of the building itself more, whereas the previous rendition had the port shifted to one side. 00:18:50
We. 00:18:58
Centered it kind of between the looking at the doors, the windows and the overall. 00:18:59
Facade of the building and. 00:19:05
Work with those proportions to center that porch. 00:19:07
Thereby really showing more of the face of the building. 00:19:10
Umm. 00:19:14
And highlighting that. 00:19:15
Umm. 00:19:17
Per Kent CV's phase Two assessment and the supplemental supplemental letter that he. 00:19:19
Submitted. 00:19:25
Umm. 00:19:27
He outlines the. 00:19:28
The some of the codes and standards that allow for such rehabilitation. 00:19:29
Umm. 00:19:34
And. 00:19:35
Helps to give new life to, you know, to a historic structure and also. 00:19:37
Allows the enjoyment of the of the for the new owners. 00:19:41
Umm. 00:19:44
The porch cover will help to actually preserve the original door and windows and. 00:19:46
Expand their life, their lifespan. 00:19:52
If you have any questions, I'm happy to. 00:19:56
Yeah. 00:19:58
Not yet. 00:19:59
I. 00:20:01
Do we know? 00:20:02
What the EU say there's? 00:20:04
Been about three different renditions of the front porch or something like that? Well, at least at least two because there's, you 00:20:06
know, it's currently doesn't look like the that photo. 00:20:10
Yeah, I see that. That's probably so. 00:20:16
Do we know what the other ones were, or are they just gone and we have no record of it? 00:20:19
Yeah, I don't know if there's a record of them, but so this is, you know what what is currently there is certainly at least #2. 00:20:24
OK. 00:20:31
Thanks. 00:20:33
Correct. 00:20:39
Yes. 00:20:39
So you can see that it has the columns that sort of the half columns at the wall on the other side of the door. 00:20:42
And those we will be. 00:20:48
Leaving. 00:20:50
And then the. 00:20:52
The chamfered posts. 00:20:53
Will be replicated out of the front edge. 00:20:56
Because the current poster. 00:20:59
In need of. 00:21:01
Replacing. 00:21:02
Due to RAW anyway. 00:21:04
Thank you. I'm going to have you stand by and we may have questions in a little bit. 00:21:09
All right. I will open to public comment. 00:21:15
Do we have any comment from the audience first of all? 00:21:18
Lower committee members. I'm Donna Phillips. I'm one of the. 00:21:29
Caretakers and owners of 1438 St. 00:21:33
And I brought up a couple of notes that I forgot to mention last time I was here and talked to you guys. 00:21:37
At the last meeting I spoke about our deep connection to the Ruth Hooper House and our constant efforts to maintain. 00:21:43
It's historical value, but what I didn't speak about so much was the unique struggles of defending the old growth Redwood walls. 00:21:49
Windows and doors against insects, rats and increasing challenges of more extreme weather that we keep having each year. 00:21:55
I personally have learned every square inch of our house in my efforts to not just plug the holes, but to. 00:22:02
Make long lasting improvements to avoid Future Past water or sun damage to the boards that have weathered 127 years so far. 00:22:08
I have personally refinished and repainted. 00:22:17
Both the outside and the inside of the house twice so far. 00:22:19
I have seen the condition of the Redwood and it's struggling a bit, especially on the front of the house where it takes the brunt 00:22:22
of the storms in the afternoon sun. 00:22:26
We've replaced the rope and the double hung windows multiple times. 00:22:30
But they continue to fail, leaving us without the ability to open them in the hot months and close them fully in the winter 00:22:33
months, making the house. 00:22:37
Pretty much a big energy waster, but we, you know, we get through it. 00:22:42
Living in the South, I learned the value of where I grew up on the upper good front porch, especially the wrap around kind. 00:22:46
And not only does it make for more community interaction, but a good awning covering. 00:22:53
The front windows and doors extends the life of the house as you go, you all know. 00:22:58
Protects the inside also like the carpets and the furniture and the inhabitants from. 00:23:01
The sign of the rain and sometimes hail that we get right on the front door. 00:23:08
Umm. 00:23:12
So yeah, it is our interest to preserve the history as much as we can and we want that wood to last. And you know, I'll keep 00:23:13
painting it and I'll keep. 00:23:16
Refinishing it, but I'd like to protect it better. That's mainly my concern. 00:23:21
The orientation of the stairs to the side is also important. 00:23:25
And keeping with the the look of so many historic homes in Pacific Grove, we drove up and down the streets just near our our 00:23:28
neighborhood. 00:23:31
And found I think 30 in less than an hour that had the side orientation. 00:23:35
And it was interesting to see all the different ideas and we really liked the centering that you guys kind of pushed us to go back 00:23:40
and look at what you need. And Paul, the centering looks a lot better. 00:23:45
I think while protecting the windows and doors. 00:23:50
And umm. 00:23:52
You know, I also fell recently and broke my shoulder on a garden hose, of all things, and Sandy. My partner had hip surgery 00:23:53
recently. 00:23:57
And you know, that's when we learned the stairs can be a challenge. So. 00:24:01
Having a few less errors in a proper set of risers that the right height would be helpful to have a shorter entry. 00:24:04
Into the house, at least from that angle. 00:24:11
So those are just things I wanted to throw out there and and have you guys consider on our behalf. Thank you. 00:24:14
Thank you. 00:24:20
Anyone else in the audience? 00:24:21
Do we have anybody in our virtual audience that would like to speak? 00:24:24
With Tony Chiani. 00:24:27
Good afternoon. 00:24:31
Members of the Historic Resources Committee. 00:24:33
I'm going to wreck. 00:24:37
I have some observations. 00:24:39
But but before I start I just want to. 00:24:41
Urge you to approve the project. 00:24:44
Possibly with some. 00:24:46
Thoughts of? 00:24:49
Maybe how to? 00:24:51
Mitigate this. 00:24:53
The size. 00:24:54
Of the. 00:24:55
Addition to the rear and left. 00:24:58
Of the elevation of action. 00:25:01
First of all. 00:25:03
I think. 00:25:04
This project. 00:25:06
Is an excellent example. 00:25:07
That is instructive. 00:25:10
Of looking at all the other historic. 00:25:11
Properties. 00:25:15
That are on. 00:25:17
The list. 00:25:18
Of deletions. 00:25:19
Specifically those. 00:25:21
Where? 00:25:23
Page and Turnbull has said. 00:25:24
Oh. 00:25:26
Someone added a front porch. 00:25:27
Or someone. 00:25:30
And close to front porch. 00:25:31
At some point in time. 00:25:34
A lot of them they don't even know. 00:25:36
When the enclosures when we're done. 00:25:37
My experience over the last 50 years is when people first developed on the coast in California. 00:25:41
They would have these open verandas and porches. 00:25:47
And then eventually they would enclose. 00:25:50
Part or all of them. 00:25:53
To be more habitable to deal with the winds and the storms. 00:25:55
To protect the facade of the building. 00:25:59
And this is an example. 00:26:02
A contemporary example. 00:26:04
Working. 00:26:06
Contemporaneous example. 00:26:06
Where that is happening now? 00:26:09
And so when you're looking at. 00:26:12
Other projects. 00:26:14
Including some that are on the agenda today. 00:26:16
Were page and Turnbull has, said Ohh. 00:26:19
This project lost its integrity, no? 00:26:22
That is part of the history, history and story of the property. 00:26:26
Umm. 00:26:30
I wonder about. 00:26:32
The the roof deck. 00:26:34
It does. 00:26:36
Add an element that. 00:26:37
Is out of character. 00:26:40
And. 00:26:42
Doesn't contribute to the integrity. 00:26:43
I also wonder if the applicant. 00:26:46
Or the architects would consider. 00:26:49
A change in the color. 00:26:51
Of the portion of the building that's larger and to the left left something that would subdue the building, that part of the 00:26:53
building, and allow the brilliance of the original. 00:26:58
This. 00:27:04
To. 00:27:05
Be in front to be proud of the new additions. 00:27:05
I also think. 00:27:09
The. 00:27:11
Proportion. 00:27:12
Of the sliding glass doors. 00:27:13
To the left. 00:27:15
In relation to the walls. 00:27:16
Is a little bit. 00:27:19
Large. 00:27:20
Otherwise. 00:27:21
I think it's a project you should approve. 00:27:22
And keep in mind when you're looking at proposed deletions, simply because. 00:27:25
Over the time. 00:27:30
Of a lot of these buildings. 00:27:32
The porches have been enclosed. Thank you. 00:27:34
Thank you. 00:27:39
We have Inga Lorenzen, Dahmer. 00:27:42
Thank you. 00:27:47
Chair and committee members. 00:27:48
Umm. 00:27:51
I too agree that the rooftop deck is pretty much out there. It doesn't fit in with anything. 00:27:53
And the size of it. 00:28:01
The addition. 00:28:05
Is. I think it completely still overwhelms the original. 00:28:06
And because it's right there attached and I was going to suggest you look. 00:28:12
One of the deletions that's on the agenda today, which is 111 Grand Ave. which is up there for deletions because of. 00:28:18
Massive additions, and I'm going to say that this project will probably end up there too in a few years. It's so. 00:28:28
That's all I have to say. Thank you. 00:28:38
Thank you. 00:28:41
And the others? 00:28:45
You have no other. 00:28:47
All right. I will close the public comment. 00:28:49
And bring it back to the committee for discussion. I I would want to comment that. 00:28:57
Our issue last month was really about the front porch. That seemed to be the sticking point, so. 00:29:03
I kind of think we should. 00:29:09
Focus our comments now on the front porch and not sort of bring back the whole project all over again. But that's just my 00:29:11
suggestion. 00:29:15
So do we have comments? 00:29:20
The. 00:29:25
The front porch that's on there now is a 1950s edition, and it's clearly not original and we don't know what the original one was. 00:29:26
So. 00:29:37
To my mind, that kind of. 00:29:40
Freeze them up. 00:29:42
To. 00:29:45
Add something back on there. 00:29:48
Because. 00:29:50
We don't know what was original and what wasn't. 00:29:52
And. 00:29:57
If we did, I'd be inclined to. 00:29:58
Uh. 00:30:02
Imitate or use the. 00:30:04
You know, inspiration from the old one, but this is not this, is not it so? 00:30:07
Yeah. 00:30:13
It's OK with me. I think it's fine. I I think it's a nice project and I'd like to approve it. 00:30:15
Do we have other comments? 00:30:23
Well, I'll just say I, I appreciate what you guys did as far as changing the look at it. 00:30:26
Is something. 00:30:32
I think I can live with it. It is going to add to the porch, but it's not. It's going to add to the. 00:30:34
Project, but it's not. I don't feel it's going to take away. 00:30:40
I I did mention last time that I thought that the addition was fairly large, but then we got up on the porch, so. 00:30:45
Umm. 00:30:52
I think I'll just leave it at that. 00:30:53
I think the addition is is very large too. 00:30:57
Umm. 00:31:00
And yet I I applaud the applicant for coming back again because. 00:31:03
It's very time consuming and. 00:31:07
You know, spending your hours here is. 00:31:09
Is long and probably not your favorite thing to do. I'm just imagining. I mean, go figure. 00:31:11
But so. 00:31:17
You know my question is, is the size the? 00:31:19
I just applaud you coming back here and if the rest of the committee would be for it, I would be for it as well. 00:31:22
Thank you. 00:31:28
I would approve. 00:31:30
Their plans as as they are now. 00:31:31
And. 00:31:34
I think they've done a. 00:31:35
Excellent. 00:31:36
Work for the environment where it's. 00:31:38
Is this on? Yes. OK, now I think the plans work well with the amount of. 00:31:42
With within the neighbourhood with all the larger buildings and I think. 00:31:48
They've the plans. 00:31:53
I'm fine with the way the plans are. 00:31:54
Yes and I. 00:31:58
I think I like the symmetry of it now. 00:31:59
It's centered and. 00:32:03
I think that just overall it's going to have a. 00:32:06
A nicer appeal. I certainly approve of the project. 00:32:09
And just do we have any other comments to make anybody? 00:32:13
I did like Mr. Messianic's comment about maybe painting a different color. 00:32:19
On the add on so that it would show. 00:32:25
The cottage more as an individual, I did like that idea. 00:32:28
So noted. 00:32:35
So do we have a a motion to approve? 00:32:37
I'll make the motion yes, let's approve the project as submitted today. 00:32:41
Thank you. Do we have a second? 00:32:47
I'll second. 00:32:49
Thank you. May we have a roll call vote? 00:32:50
Vice chair steers. 00:32:54
Aye. 00:32:55
Member Greening. 00:32:57
Member Grannis. 00:33:00
Aye. 00:33:01
Member, please. 00:33:03
Chair Anton. 00:33:05
Aye. 00:33:06
We have 5. 00:33:08
IS0 nose. 00:33:10
One absent and one recused motion passes. 00:33:13
Thank you and thank you for being patient with us. Thank you for coming back. 00:33:17
And good luck with your project. 00:33:21
Yeah. 00:33:23
All right, we now move to item number. 00:33:29
Item Number 8B Deletion of 112 Caledonia. 00:33:34
From the HR I do, we have a staff report. 00:33:39
I'll have to, Yeah, that's correct. We have two. Wait, we have a We have an issue here again. 00:33:43
So before you leave. 00:33:49
We will explain what we're going to do before you leave, because we don't have. 00:33:51
We need at least four people to make a decision and so there is a way to solve the problem, which I'll let. 00:33:57
Mr. Campbell explained. 00:34:05
So when we don't have a quorum because of recusals, we will be using the rule of necessity and in this case. 00:34:07
We'll randomly choose the two, in this case two people who would be recusing themselves, and we'll do that by. 00:34:15
We have names. 00:34:21
That would be drawn and that person, the way this was explained to us for the sake of this meeting, wouldn't be able to recuse for 00:34:23
the rest of the meeting if they had recusals for. 00:34:29
For other. 00:34:35
Other properties. 00:34:37
So if. 00:34:38
This is mostly it's spelled out in our boards and committees. 00:34:41
Guidelines if you want to refer to that later, I'd be. 00:34:47
Happy to read it now if you want or no sure. 00:34:51
So if the number of members recusing themselves due to a conflict of interest disrupts the quorum, the rule of necessity allows 00:34:55
the random selection of the fewest number of conflicted members to vote. 00:35:00
As is needed to enable a quorum to participate and reach a decision. In this case it would only be one person that we'd need. 00:35:05
Because we have to have four for a quorum, we also need. 00:35:09
Or I votes for for a motion to pass. 00:35:15
And they give an example. For example, if four out of seven committee members are conflicted, the committee may select one of the 00:35:20
conflicted numbers to vote so as to have a quorum. 00:35:24
We decided to use this because we pushed this off so many times it's time to. 00:35:29
Finish the project you know. 00:35:36
The agenda so. 00:35:37
Who gets to draw the lucky name? 00:35:39
So one of you will leave of it. 00:35:42
Who knew about this rule? 00:35:46
Not now. 00:35:49
My. 00:35:51
There's the name out of the the bull. 00:35:53
Do we need a drum roll? Yeah, blindfolded. 00:35:57
Number of grants. 00:36:03
Member Grannis, chosen first is the chosen person to taste, so Greening may refuse. 00:36:04
Hey, sorry, but don't go too far. 00:36:11
OK. 00:36:15
I also just want to comment from B through whatever the last letter is I'm going to limit. 00:36:18
The public comment to two minutes. 00:36:24
Again, we've been trying to get through these for a long time and. 00:36:27
I'm determined to get through all of them today, so. 00:36:32
With that. 00:36:35
May we have a staff report on 112 Caledonia? 00:36:36
The item before you is the removal of 112 Caledonia St. from the Historic Resources Inventory. 00:36:43
City records indicate. 00:36:50
The building was constructed in 1888. 00:36:52
Per page until Turnbull. 00:36:57
Some of the evaluation notes. 00:37:00
They provide is. 00:37:02
In 18/18/88, Sandborn shows a tent framed adjacent to one story dwelling. 00:37:04
Rear W portion of the extant building. 00:37:11
By 1892, the 10th frame was enclosed or replaced with a North Bay, and the North Bay was added. 00:37:14
And the South wing was added. 00:37:21
And an open porch was constructed. 00:37:23
At the primary. 00:37:26
East and South facades. 00:37:27
By 1897, a small rear porch was constructed, as well as two outbuildings, one of which was demolished by 1905. 00:37:30
By 1914, the South Wing was expanded. 00:37:39
Based on Sanborn Mass between 1926 and 1962. 00:37:43
The open porch at the primary E facade was enclosed and expanded. 00:37:47
So the commutative. 00:37:53
Changes have resulted in loss of historic integrity. 00:37:55
Page and Turnbull's recommendation is to remove the property from the Historic Resources Inventory. 00:38:01
Therefore, staff recommendation is to remove the property from. 00:38:06
The Historic Resources Inventory. 00:38:10
This concludes my staff report and I'm available to answer questions. 00:38:13
Thank you. 00:38:18
I'll open now to public comment. 00:38:19
Public comment Yes. 00:38:24
Apologize. Speak in the mic please. 00:38:36
Oh, no, thank you. My name is Goldwyn Smith. 00:38:38
This is my third time here. 00:38:42
Last time I had a little outburst. I apologize for that. I was recovering from COVID-19. 00:38:43
And it was my second time here, and it was. 00:38:50
European. 00:38:52
Ohh, I'd like to first of all, and I realize. 00:38:54
Help. 00:38:58
This my wife who has been a. 00:39:00
An attorney for a long time man. 00:39:03
And decent. 00:39:05
Doesn't practice your body. 00:39:07
Put this together. 00:39:11
Which refutes. 00:39:12
The pains and noble or whatever it is. 00:39:13
There assertations with. 00:39:18
Pictures from the family we've which is owned the property. 00:39:24
At least a packed into the teens. There's seven generations. We've contacted them, talked to them, they've visited us. This copies 00:39:29
of this have been in your hands. 00:39:34
For months. 00:39:40
Umm. 00:39:41
With all the pictures and supporting data. 00:39:42
Umm. 00:39:46
Nancy who couldn't be here because we have on newly born granddaughter and my daughter. 00:39:48
As. 00:39:55
Did you is need some support and Nancy got a call this morning and had to. 00:39:56
Go and support. 00:40:02
So she is, and she wrote this. 00:40:04
I did not. 00:40:06
I'll read it. 00:40:07
My name is Nancy Schiffer. My husband, Goldwyn Smith, and I bought the house at 112 Caledonian, 2017, and moved here from 00:40:09
Annapolis, MD, in 2018. 00:40:13
Really relocated because her daughter and son-in-law and most importantly our grandson. 00:40:18
Lived here. 00:40:24
On one of our early visits from Annapolis, our daughter urged us to look at this house, and we did. 00:40:26
The one that was for sale. So we called the realtor and spent about 25 minutes walking through it. We both liked it. Capital 00:40:31
letters. We both liked it. 00:40:35
You. 00:40:42
We like this history as a retreat house. Built in 1888. Same identical footprint since 1914. I'm sorry, but the time is up. 00:40:43
But but we did receive all of your information, and we've all read it. 00:40:51
Good. 00:40:56
OK. 00:40:57
Thank you. 00:40:58
Umm. 00:40:59
Thank you. 00:41:02
Is there any other public comment? 00:41:04
We have Angela Lorensen Dahmer. 00:41:08
Please go ahead. 00:41:14
Thank you. 00:41:15
Chair and committee met. 00:41:17
Am I muted or unmuted? 00:41:26
No, we hear you. 00:41:28
Thank you. 00:41:30
I think it should remain on the historic resources list. Thank you very much. 00:41:31
Thank you. 00:41:38
We have to leave the Gianni. 00:41:44
Thank you. 00:41:48
Umm. 00:41:49
I I agree I I believe it should stay on the HR I. 00:41:50
It. 00:41:56
It. 00:41:57
It clearly has. 00:41:58
Received tender loving care. 00:42:01
And from from its current owners and I walk. 00:42:04
In that whole neighborhood, regularly. 00:42:10
Um, it it's part. 00:42:13
Of the whole neighborhood. 00:42:15
And and it's a more. 00:42:17
What's the word it it it's not. 00:42:22
As. 00:42:24
As. 00:42:27
Ohh gosh, I just went blank on the words but it's a much more humble. 00:42:28
House then a lot of them. But I love that. 00:42:33
As as as being part of that neighborhood. 00:42:38
And and the point is. 00:42:40
It. 00:42:43
It. 00:42:44
Still meets the criteria to be on the HRI and. 00:42:45
And I hope that you will retain it. 00:42:51
Ohh and I do want to say that. 00:42:54
If you don't. 00:42:57
Retain it. 00:42:59
Then it definitely should be on the neighborhood character list. But I hate to even say that because then sometimes. 00:43:00
The committee goes straight to that idea and and I really want you to strongly consider retaining it. On the HR, I thank you very 00:43:08
much. 00:43:12
Thank you. 00:43:18
We have Tony Chiani. 00:43:20
Honesty, Simplicity. 00:43:25
Uh. 00:43:28
Simplicity of materials, simplicity of construction, simplicity of design. 00:43:29
All. 00:43:35
Are characteristics of a building of this era. 00:43:36
Clearly the information provided by. 00:43:40
And and the public comments about the. 00:43:44
Care and love of this property. 00:43:48
Show. 00:43:51
That it has integrity. It has integrity of ownership. 00:43:52
Has integrity of its historical use and has integrity of. 00:43:56
Of the Pride. 00:44:01
For this very simple building, it should not be taken off. 00:44:03
The HR. I thank you. 00:44:07
Thank you. 00:44:11
We have no other comment. 00:44:14
OK, I'll close public comment, bring it back for discussion. 00:44:16
Comments from the committee. 00:44:23
I think we should keep it on the. 00:44:26
Historic inventory. 00:44:28
Partly because this. 00:44:31
The house the front of the house was added on to. 00:44:35
And I'm looking for the date. 00:44:39
I had one at my desk. 00:44:41
But I don't have it here. I don't have the proof here but. 00:44:43
It was added on to. 00:44:47
At an early. 00:44:50
Date I think before 1926. 00:44:52
And it has the windows. 00:44:56
All the windows going around it except. 00:45:00
On the left hand side, it used to be an open porch. It's now not. 00:45:03
But the the porch was added on to or enclosed later, but enclosed in a way that is consistent with the design. 00:45:09
That it has. It's a nice looking design. I like it very much and I I agree that it matches the character of the house, but I also 00:45:18
think that it's. 00:45:23
Predates. 00:45:28
The 1926. 00:45:30
Cut off. 00:45:33
Or. 00:45:36
Historic. 00:45:37
Consideration I guess. 00:45:39
I too think it should stay on. I'm sorry. I too think it should stay on the HR I I I really admire. 00:45:43
The owner's dedication coming here so very many times. I know that's not easy and sitting through our. 00:45:51
Very long meetings and I just want to thank you for your perseverance and I want to say that I enthusiastically support it being 00:45:56
on the HR. I thank you. 00:46:00
Right. 00:46:06
Well, I feel that's really interesting information that it it was done before 1926, so. 00:46:08
I also feel like it should stay on. 00:46:15
Thank you. 00:46:20
I'm, you know, I think sometimes Page and Turnbull goes way too far. I think they're looking at this house. 00:46:21
As it might have looked in 1892, but I think we can we stretch. 00:46:28
Are sort of cut off much later than that. 00:46:34
I was looking actually at the Heritage societies, the the old DPR from 1977 where somebody wrote. 00:46:38
That had been greatly altered but not giving a date. 00:46:45
And I want to comment, having been part of that in 1977, that there are a lot of untrained people. 00:46:51
Contributed to those DPR reports. 00:46:57
Back in 1977. 00:47:00
Umm, so they're they were not done by a company like Page and Turnbull anyway. 00:47:02
And so I think that probably alterations were made. 00:47:08
After 1892 but. 00:47:13
At the same time I, I. 00:47:17
Feel that it should stay on the HRI. 00:47:19
So with that, may we have and I'm so sorry you had to wait, but I think you have to understand technically where we're. 00:47:22
Our hands are tied at times. We finally found a solution, otherwise it would happen again today. 00:47:29
So please understand. 00:47:34
Our situation and I appreciate your. 00:47:36
Hanging in there with us. 00:47:40
So may we have the vote, please? 00:47:42
You get a motion. 00:47:48
Maybe have a motion. Yes, the motion that. 00:47:49
112 Caledonia remains on the HRI. 00:47:54
2nd. 00:47:57
I'll second it, yes. 00:47:58
Now maybe have a vote. 00:48:00
Member, please. 00:48:03
Aye. 00:48:04
Vice chair steers. 00:48:06
Aye. 00:48:07
Chair Anton. 00:48:09
Aye. 00:48:10
Member Grannis. 00:48:12
Poor eyes. 00:48:16
0 nays, 1 recused, 1 absent, 1 vacancy. 00:48:18
Motion passes. 00:48:23
Or. 00:48:24
OK. That's correct. Thank you. 00:48:26
All right, next item. 00:48:30
Thank you. 00:48:32
The next item is item 8C and we're talking about 718 Grove St. May we have a report of staff report please? 00:48:33
The item before you is the removal of 718 Grove St. 00:48:42
From the H from the Historic Resource Inventory. 00:48:49
City records indicate. 00:48:52
The building was constructed in 1890, per Page and Turnbull. 00:48:55
And the evaluation notes. 00:48:59
Include a large scale of the second story addition plus the shed roof. 00:49:01
Garage addition at the side. 00:49:08
Obscure the original narrow, rectangular one story volume of this tent cottage. 00:49:10
The massing of the tent cottages is one of their most characteristic features, and thus. 00:49:15
This building no longer retains sufficient historic integrity. 00:49:20
Page and Turnbull's recommendation is to remove the. 00:49:25
Property from the Historic Resources Inventory. Therefore, staff recommendation is to remove the property from the Historic 00:49:28
Resources Inventory. 00:49:31
This concludes my staff report and I'm available to answer any questions. 00:49:36
Thank you very much and I'll open that to public comment. 00:49:41
Anybody in the audience. 00:49:45
Anybody virtually. 00:49:47
We have. 00:49:50
Technician Liani. 00:49:51
As you all know, I've been practicing historic preservation architecture since 1973. 00:49:56
I guess that's about 50 years. 00:50:03
What I've learned over the years. 00:50:06
Is. 00:50:09
The consultants. 00:50:11
Including me. 00:50:13
Need to be flexible in their analysis using. 00:50:14
The. 00:50:18
The standards, whether it's the standards for determining A boundary of A. 00:50:19
Property or a district? 00:50:24
Or applying the strict standards of. 00:50:25
The treatment of historic structures. 00:50:29
I think Page and Turnbull. 00:50:32
Came in. 00:50:34
Very. 00:50:35
Rigidly applying the standards. 00:50:37
So. 00:50:40
This is an example. 00:50:41
Several of the others following on this agenda are examples of properties. 00:50:43
That. 00:50:48
I'm sure. 00:50:49
Quite confident if you look back. 00:50:50
Past the standards of Architectural review. 00:50:53
For additions to an existing historical structure. 00:50:56
So. 00:51:01
What you will be doing if you take this off? 00:51:04
Is you'll be saying to all of the predecessor. 00:51:06
Committees. 00:51:10
And architectural boards that they were wrong. 00:51:11
In approving these projects. 00:51:15
This is an example of a property that should remain on. 00:51:17
Shouldn't be on a neighborhood character list. 00:51:20
It should be. 00:51:24
Part of the. 00:51:25
HRHRI. 00:51:26
I strongly. 00:51:28
Urge you. 00:51:30
To keep it on the list. 00:51:31
Thank you. 00:51:33
Thank you. 00:51:36
We have Lisa Gianni. 00:51:38
Thank you. 00:51:44
Umm. 00:51:45
This is another house that I walk by. 00:51:47
Regularly. 00:51:50
And it's a jewel. 00:51:51
I was absolutely shocked when I saw it on the list for deletions. 00:51:54
Then after reading. 00:52:02
The the DPR form you know and. 00:52:04
Walking by again and again I could see. 00:52:08
The issues that. 00:52:13
They that page and Turnbull had with it. 00:52:16
But. 00:52:19
I It was done. 00:52:20
With. 00:52:23
Such care and and and. 00:52:24
I don't think. 00:52:29
Anybody would walk by this and say ohh, that's not historic. So I. 00:52:31
I think that and then the when. 00:52:37
Next to it to the left. 00:52:41
Umm. 00:52:43
Which is? 00:52:44
Not as. 00:52:45
Totally delightful as this one. But but there's just there's a wonderful. 00:52:47
Feel there and and the one on the corner. 00:52:52
Two, but this one is it just. 00:52:55
An absolute jewel. 00:52:57
And and I hope. 00:52:59
That you will retain it on the HR. 00:53:00
Thank you. 00:53:04
Thank you. 00:53:05
Are we having a timer issue? 00:53:07
Yes, it's up on the upper right hand corner of the screen, but for some odd reason the. 00:53:10
The timer itself isn't working. We can. 00:53:15
That's OK. If you if you can see it, that's. 00:53:19
And we can see. 00:53:21
I'm fine. 00:53:23
As long as we're keeping track. 00:53:24
And we have Angular, Ants and Dahmer. All right. Thank you. 00:53:26
Thank you. 00:53:31
In the interests of the time, Mr. Chair and the committee members, I will just say that I wholeheartedly enthusiastically agree 00:53:32
with both Tony. 00:53:37
And Lisa Gianni's comments? 00:53:43
Thank you very much. 00:53:45
Thank you. 00:53:47
Any others? 00:53:49
No, no other comments. All right, I will close public comment, bring it back to the committee for discussion. 00:53:51
Well, I. 00:53:59
I'm in favor, definitely of keeping this on. I go by there on a daily basis too, and I never would have thought that, you know, 00:54:00
this was not a Victorian house. 00:54:06
I I know the addition but I I really don't even notice that it's it's just got so much character on the front porch and. 00:54:12
And I I just think it should stay on. 00:54:20
Jill, I totally agree. 00:54:25
I think it's it's very well done. 00:54:27
Umm. 00:54:30
Yes, you know the the tent home is probably. 00:54:31
There, but I'm wondering, you know, I know my little house has little had a little side garage that I converted and I don't know 00:54:34
if we have any earlier pictures or recommend or our history of it, but I'm imagining there was some kind of a little. 00:54:40
Little garage there next door. 00:54:47
To that in the early, early times. 00:54:49
It's just a possibility somebody here might be able to say. 00:54:51
If that's correct or not, that's just a an assumption on my part, but I think it's well done and. 00:54:54
I would be for keeping it. 00:55:00
I also agree that the. 00:55:03
This House should remain on the historic inventory. 00:55:06
The additions. 00:55:10
Above and to the right hand side of it are. 00:55:13
Set back and they are simpler. 00:55:16
And then the. 00:55:20
Then the front porch the existing. 00:55:22
Historic. 00:55:25
Part and they are consistent with it and. 00:55:27
I think they've done a very nice job of. 00:55:31
Expanding without damaging the the design. 00:55:35
So. 00:55:39
A vote to keep it. 00:55:42
And. 00:55:44
I would say the fact that they're set back is usually acceptable to Page and Turnbull. 00:55:45
Again, I've said this before, if you could take off the addition, you still have the house underneath. 00:55:51
The house underneath is charming, and the addition isn't quite so charming. 00:55:57
I. 00:56:01
But anyway that beside. 00:56:02
I I certainly agree. I think somebody walking by that didn't know the neighborhood or know the story. 00:56:05
Would just assume that the. 00:56:12
You know this is a Victorian house that got expanded and. 00:56:14
It didn't get. 00:56:18
The original didn't get demolished. 00:56:20
So. 00:56:23
I would vote to accept Can we have? 00:56:24
A motion please. 00:56:27
I'll vote. 00:56:30
No, because. 00:56:31
This was the proposal here was to remove it and I'm saying no, don't remove it. 00:56:33
We need a motion, so that's my motion. 00:56:39
Wait, your motion is? 00:56:43
Is to vote no on the removal. 00:56:45
Oh, I see. I see. OK. 00:56:50
Say it any way you want. OK. Thank you. I I make a motion that we maintain. 00:56:52
Yeah, let's be positive here. Yeah, Maintain 718 Grove St. on the HRI. 00:56:57
Thank you. 00:57:03
Now do we have a second? 00:57:04
Hi, seconded. Thank you. May we have a roll call vote please? 00:57:05
Member, please. 00:57:11
Member Grannis. 00:57:13
Member. 00:57:16
Vice chair steers. 00:57:17
Aye. 00:57:19
Chair Anton. 00:57:21
Aye. 00:57:22
4/4 eyes, 0 nays. 00:57:24
One recused. 00:57:28
1. 00:57:30
Absent in one vacancy. 00:57:31
Motion passes. 00:57:34
Very good. 00:57:36
All right, the next item is 184 Pacific St. 00:57:37
And. 00:57:42
May we have a staff report please? 00:57:44
The item before you is the removal of 184 Pacific Ave. 00:57:49
From the Sri. 00:57:56
City records indicate the building was constructed in 1920, per page and Turnbull. 00:57:57
Their evaluation notes. 00:58:04
Replacement windows are not compatible. 00:58:07
Immaterial operability or pattern of lights. 00:58:10
Cladding also likely not original. 00:58:14
Cumulative alterations have resulted. 00:58:17
In loss of historic integrity. 00:58:20
Page and Turnbull's recommendation is to remove the property from the HR I. 00:58:23
Therefore, staff recommendation is to remove the property from the HRI. 00:58:27
This concludes my staff report and I'm available to answer any questions. 00:58:31
Thank you. Anybody from the audience wish to speak? 00:58:36
Does anybody from the virtual audience wish to speak? 00:58:41
We have Lisa Chiani. 00:58:49
Thank you. I really can't speak to the integrity of it. It's on a street full of. 00:58:52
Of. 00:58:59
Historic homes. 00:59:01
It. 00:59:04
I love that it is multifamily. 00:59:06
Umm. 00:59:10
And you know, so that. 00:59:10
I don't, but I don't know the whole history of it. I did not have time to to read up on on this one. 00:59:14
So I I will. 00:59:21
Certainly. 00:59:23
Be respect, whatever you, whatever you decide but. 00:59:25
It's it's a great building that's being well used. 00:59:30
Thank you. 00:59:34
Thank you. 00:59:35
We have Angela, Lorenz and Dumber. 00:59:40
Yes, I would request that staff put up the photo at least of the project when they do their report for us. 00:59:43
Audience members, I would appreciate that. 00:59:53
And on this one, I think it should remain in neighborhood character because it does add so much to the neighborhood. 00:59:56
Thank you very much. 01:00:04
Thank you. 01:00:06
We have Tony Chiani. 01:00:10
Good afternoon again. 01:00:14
I think one way to look at a lot of these properties. 01:00:17
As you're looking at them in in groups, which is. 01:00:20
I I really appreciate. 01:00:24
If you looked at this property as part of the retreat. 01:00:29
The historical retreat. And you think of this? 01:00:33
As part of a. 01:00:36
A larger historical district. 01:00:38
That, that might. 01:00:41
Help. 01:00:42
And the evaluation of its. 01:00:44
Significance and its integrity. 01:00:47
I don't think the building has the integrity of the original, period. 01:00:49
Of significance. 01:00:54
I don't think it should be on the HRI. 01:00:55
The the notion that it could be. 01:01:00
Part of the neighborhood character list. 01:01:03
Does make sense? 01:01:05
So I don't think it's a contributing structure structural historical district. 01:01:07
I don't think on its own it's historically significant. 01:01:11
But surely it might contribute to the overall neighborhood character. 01:01:14
Thank you very much. 01:01:19
Thank you. 01:01:21
We have no further commenters. OK, I'll close public comment bring back for discussion. 01:01:24
We'll start with you, Nina. 01:01:30
Yes, I think it should be taken off. I it's just too many changes. The window upstairs is is just a window. I mean they they've 01:01:32
really done nothing to. 01:01:38
To bring it to even I'm not even sure it should be myself on the. 01:01:43
Character list I I I think it should be taken off. 01:01:50
Jill. 01:01:55
Umm. 01:01:56
I I do think it should be off the HR I, but I would be supportive of having it on the character list. 01:01:57
Rick. 01:02:04
I agree with this proposal to remove it from the HR I because of the. 01:02:06
It. 01:02:12
Doesn't have any of its original characteristics. We don't even know what they are, but they're not here. 01:02:13
And or maybe they're completely agree with Mr. Gianni. 01:02:21
About that and I see a pure permit here for aluminum siding. 01:02:26
1968 and of course the window groupings and things are. 01:02:32
Not characteristic of. 01:02:37
The older. 01:02:39
Older homes either I think it needs to go. 01:02:42
Or let me ask this question. 01:02:45
Off the HRI, but on to the. 01:02:48
Proposed neighborhood character list. 01:02:51
Let me ask you that and then I'll come back around. 01:02:54
In my opinion, off the HR I that's it. I don't need it on the. 01:02:57
On the character list, not part of the neighborhood character I don't think. Jill, your thought. 01:03:02
I'd I'd like it on the neighborhood character list. I'm not. 01:03:07
Tied to that, so. 01:03:10
I would not. 01:03:14
Would not. 01:03:15
All right, let's have a motion, please. 01:03:16
Well, I'll let the motion maker decide whether. 01:03:20
Who would like to make a motion? Well, I'll move that. We remove it from the. 01:03:24
HRI. 01:03:28
That is, to vote yes on this proposal. 01:03:30
We have a second. 01:03:34
I'll second. 01:03:37
May we have a vote please? 01:03:39
Vice chair steers. 01:03:43
Aye. 01:03:45
Member Grannis. 01:03:47
Aye. 01:03:49
Chair Anton. 01:03:51
Member, please. 01:03:54
We have four eyes, 0 nays. 01:03:59
One absent and one recused motion passes. 01:04:02
And I don't hear enough support for being on the neighborhood character list, so we'll move on to the next item then. 01:04:07
Yeah. 01:04:14
OK, just a minute here. 01:04:17
Next item 172 Pacific Item 8 E. 01:04:21
May we have a staff report please? 01:04:25
The item before you is the removal of 172 Pacific Ave. 01:04:28
From the Historic Resource Inventory. 01:04:33
City records indicate the building was constructed in 1915. 01:04:36
Per Page and Turnbull. 01:04:41
Their evaluation notes include. 01:04:43
Based on Sanborn map evidence. 01:04:47
The property originally featured 2 narrow dwellings side by side. 01:04:49
The two dwellings were joined at an unknown date between 1915 and 1926. 01:04:54
Significantly altering the design. 01:05:00
Pattern of windows and doors. 01:05:02
And the entry. 01:05:05
The cumulative. 01:05:07
Alterations have resulted in a loss of historic integrity. 01:05:08
Page and Turnbull's recommendation is to remove the property from the HR I. 01:05:12
Therefore, staff recommendation is to remove the property from the HRI. 01:05:16
This concludes my staff report. I'm available to answer any questions. 01:05:20
Thank you. 01:05:24
Umm. 01:05:25
All open to public comment. 01:05:26
Anybody from the audience? 01:05:29
All right. Seeing none anybody virtually. 01:05:33
We have Tony Chiani. 01:05:35
Thank you. 01:05:37
This is an interesting property because of the. 01:05:40
Changes that occurred over time, except. 01:05:43
History is not static. 01:05:45
The notion that there were two. 01:05:48
Cottages side by side. 01:05:51
And they got merged into one larger home. 01:05:53
Is not unusual, there are many. 01:05:57
Including on the National Register. 01:06:00
Historical properties where that occurred. There's actually properties where cottages were. 01:06:03
Dragged by horses. 01:06:10
From one lot to another, Lot ganged together to make. 01:06:12
A larger historical home? 01:06:15
That are on the National Register. 01:06:18
That isn't a reason not to have it. 01:06:21
I think the aluminum windows. 01:06:23
Just detract from its historical integrity. 01:06:26
Unless those were changed. 01:06:31
I think the building does not have the integrity. 01:06:33
Of the materials and workmanship. 01:06:36
From the original building. 01:06:39
We don't really know. 01:06:41
But the fact that it got changed. 01:06:42
As early as before 1926, Hello. 01:06:45
50 years and older. 01:06:49
50 years from now. 01:06:51
Going back? 01:06:54
Makes 1926. 01:06:56
An eligible building. 01:06:59
So we shouldn't be. 01:07:01
Throwing those buildings out. 01:07:04
Or off the HRI. 01:07:06
I don't think it qualifies because of the aluminum windows. 01:07:09
Thank you. 01:07:12
Thank you. 01:07:14
Well. 01:07:16
Any other? 01:07:18
We have no other commenters. 01:07:20
The other hands, Alright, closing public comment, back for comment and we'll start. 01:07:28
But Mr. Steers this time. 01:07:33
I agree with this proposal that it should be removed from the HR I, mostly because of the window treatments or. 01:07:35
Not historic at all. 01:07:44
And the porch enclosure is also not historic. Those are newer. 01:07:46
And. 01:07:52
Nice, but not in character with the. 01:07:53
History of the. 01:07:57
Cindy. 01:07:59
Joe. 01:08:02
Yes, I agree, the whole front has been changed and. 01:08:06
It needs to come off. 01:08:09
And I agree as well. So I mean, we have a motion. 01:08:12
On this. 01:08:16
Project. 01:08:17
172 Pacific. 01:08:19
I'll move that we. 01:08:22
Vote yes on this proposal to remove it from the HR I I second sort of a double negative or something Ohh. I want it. I like it 01:08:24
positive. OK let me we have vice chair Sears. 01:08:30
Aye. 01:08:37
Member Grannis. 01:08:39
Chair Anton. 01:08:42
I. 01:08:43
And remember, please. 01:08:45
4I0 nays. 01:08:48
One recused, 1 absent. 01:08:51
Motion passes. 01:08:53
All right, now here, get to the. 01:08:57
Really fun part because I have to recuse, but I will go out and bring in. 01:08:59
Missus missus greening. 01:09:06
And I will see you later. 01:09:09
I'll turn. 01:09:13
Ohh OK. 01:09:15
Surprise. 01:09:17
All right, this is the. 01:09:22
Motion to remove 111 Grand Ave. from the HRI. 01:09:24
Do we have a report? 01:09:31
The item before you is the removal of. 01:09:34
111 Grand Ave. from the Historic Resource Inventory. 01:09:37
City records indicate the building was constructed. 01:09:42
In 1905, per Page and Turnbull and their evaluation notes include. 01:09:45
Says it's not shown on 1905 Sanborn. 01:09:52
But may have been built soon after. 01:09:55
1914 Sanborn map indicates an open porch at the northwest corner. 01:09:58
And on the South facade. 01:10:03
After 1962, the front porch was enclosed. 01:10:06
But set back from the Ballister and posts which were left in place. 01:10:09
A second story edition is set back from the primary facade. 01:10:14
Commutative additions. 01:10:19
Have a loss of historic integrity. 01:10:23
That. 01:10:27
Page and Turnbull's recommendation is to remove the property from the HR I. Therefore, staff recommendation is to remove the 01:10:28
property from the HRI. 01:10:32
This includes my staff report and I'm available to answer any questions. 01:10:37
Thank you. 01:10:41
OK. 01:10:42
Do we have any comments from the? 01:10:44
Audience. 01:10:48
That includes the the online audience as well as the we have. At least that's Gianni online. 01:10:53
Let's let's hear from Lisa Chiani then. 01:11:00
Thank you. 01:11:04
I. 01:11:06
Wouldn't recommend removing this. 01:11:08
Reading. 01:11:11
Page in Turnbulls Evaluation notes. 01:11:12
On the DPR continuation sheet, which which Garrett just just read. 01:11:15
Umm. 01:11:21
The things it's saying. 01:11:23
As if they are. 01:11:25
Detracting from its. 01:11:27
Integrity of don't seem to me to be detractions. 01:11:29
It says. 01:11:36
The 1914 Sanborn map indicates an open porch at the northwest corner and on the South facade. 01:11:37
After 1962, the front porch was enclosed. 01:11:44
Like, no big deal, but it says. But set back from the baluster and post which were left in place, That's a good thing, isn't it? 01:11:49
And and the second story addition is set back from the primary facade, also a good thing. 01:11:56
So I I don't see what what would cause it. 01:12:03
To lose integrity. 01:12:08
And I hope you'll retain it. 01:12:10
Thank you. 01:12:13
Thank you. 01:12:14
Do we have any more? 01:12:15
We have Angular rinse and Dumber. 01:12:18
Thank you Vice Chair and committee members. This is exactly why I liken this to Jeannie Burns project here, because I think it 01:12:22
should remain. 01:12:27
Umm. 01:12:33
The porch. 01:12:35
The setback. 01:12:36
Umm. 01:12:38
And it happened a lot further in the past than what's happening today. So if it's supposedly, if her project is, you know, 01:12:39
historic today, this one should certainly remain on the historic list. 01:12:47
Thank you. 01:12:55
Thank you. 01:12:57
We have Tony Chiani. 01:13:01
OK. 01:13:04
The very least, this should be on the neighborhood character list, but I urge you to look at this property in terms of the larger. 01:13:07
Surrounding area. 01:13:15
As a historical district. 01:13:17
Page and Turnbull. 01:13:19
Recommended. 01:13:21
That this area would be a historical district. 01:13:23
It was recommended as a historical district. 01:13:26
In the local coastal program. 01:13:29
Working papers in 1980. 01:13:31
Somehow, the city has. 01:13:37
Failed to implement the historical districts. 01:13:39
I believe. 01:13:43
If this were a historical district. 01:13:44
This property would be a contributing structure. 01:13:47
The additions. 01:13:52
Have allowed the original building to sit forward and proud. 01:13:55
Of the addition. 01:13:59
The fact. 01:14:02
Again. 01:14:03
That. 01:14:04
Properties. 01:14:05
Especially on Windy coastal. 01:14:07
Areas. 01:14:10
Where porches were eventually enclosed. 01:14:11
To create either another warm space or to create a sun, what used to be called sun porches or sunrooms or where lot logical 01:14:15
historical. 01:14:20
Progressions. 01:14:25
Of properties back in the. 01:14:26
First part of the 20th centuries. 01:14:29
I don't understand if this building is connected. 01:14:33
Directly connected to the building. 01:14:36
To the left of it, it's it's viewed in this. 01:14:38
Picture. 01:14:41
I'm sorry I didn't go down there and look. 01:14:42
Um, if it's not. 01:14:44
Then I think it should remain on the HR. I thank you. 01:14:47
Thank you. 01:14:52
We have no other public commenters. 01:14:54
I'm sorry. We do have. No, no, no more, no, no, Sir. 01:14:58
Let's move the let's move it back to the board here. 01:15:03
What does the board have to say? Any comments? 01:15:08
Well, they are two separate structures. I, I, I have gone by there and I I'm. 01:15:12
I'm almost positive they are. 01:15:17
Rick, do you know? 01:15:21
Was it was? 01:15:23
Was the porch like, I mean, was it built that way or was the front? 01:15:26
I couldn't find anything earlier than this myself and we don't have anything in here but. 01:15:32
It was. It appeared to be. 01:15:39
A separate. 01:15:43
Structure. 01:15:44
Standing alone. 01:15:45
But now it's been absorbed into the. 01:15:47
Well, but with the with the hotel or whatever you call it. 01:15:50
Yeah, Excellent. 01:15:53
So I was just thinking looking at the picture, that this part could be. 01:15:55
A front porch, actually. 01:15:59
Yes, probably is, so this was probably added on. 01:16:02
On the side here. 01:16:07
I suppose the entryway, I should imagine, was where the porch was. 01:16:10
So I think that, you know, yeah. 01:16:15
Yeah. 01:16:17
But we don't have any pictures of what it was. So have any indication of it either would be interesting to know because it's kind 01:16:19
of a puzzle. I mean, it's a nice looking place and it is. 01:16:24
Separate. 01:16:30
Umm. 01:16:31
From the other structure. 01:16:32
So I don't know, not knowing the dates those things were done. 01:16:36
It's it's hard to. 01:16:39
It it was remodeled this? 01:16:41
In 86. 01:16:44
Yeah, they they changed, but we don't know what they did, right? 01:16:46
It's got it on here. I remember seeing that, but I don't remember the windows, the Bay windows. 01:16:49
But most of it was. 01:16:57
2nd edition I I think it's just it fits into the character of the. 01:16:59
Yeah. 01:17:06
My feeling is it fits into the character of the district and I've. 01:17:09
Yeah, I think that might be a good idea too. 01:17:13
It is a very nice looking house. 01:17:17
And they've kept it up well. 01:17:20
Any other comments? 01:17:23
I'm not. 01:17:25
I don't have a. 01:17:26
Urgency to put it. 01:17:27
I'm so sorry. 01:17:30
Umm. 01:17:32
I don't have an urgency to keep it on the HR, not like I did on the other ones, but. 01:17:33
I would absolutely think it should be on the neighborhood character list without a doubt. 01:17:38
Yeah, my own feeling is that it should remain on the. 01:17:43
Historic and inventory partly because. It's. 01:17:47
In character with the general appearance and feel of the neighborhood, and it's connected to a much larger building. 01:17:52
And it's. 01:18:03
By the way, it was originally owned by Julia Platt, which. 01:18:05
Umm. 01:18:10
Definitely leads me towards. 01:18:14
Keeping it. 01:18:16
Missed that. So that sways me absolutely to keep it on the HR I absolutely. 01:18:18
So 115 was owned by Julia Platt. 01:18:23
It also says 111 is as well. Yeah, Then we need to keep it, yeah. 01:18:30
Definitely. 01:18:36
There we are. 01:18:38
Do we have a motion? 01:18:40
Make a motion that we keep it on the HR we keep. 01:18:42
111 Grand Ave. on the HRI. 01:18:46
I second it. 01:18:49
Yeah, we have a vote then. I mean, yes. 01:18:52
Member, please. 01:18:56
Member Grannis. 01:18:59
Aye. 01:19:01
Member Greening. 01:19:03
Vice Chair Steers, Aye. 01:19:06
For eyes. 01:19:09
0 nays, 1 absent, 1 recused. 01:19:11
Motion passes. 01:19:15
Thank you. 01:19:17
When do we invite? 01:19:22
No, I think she. 01:19:24
Our chair back in, there's a room. 01:19:26
Ohh. 01:19:28
11 She only recusing for for this one. 01:19:31
Property. 01:19:34
The rest of the property you do, You know The rest of the properties are on Grand Ave. 01:19:36
She'll be out all of this, I think. All of them, because they're all closed together. 01:19:45
Yeah. 01:19:49
We're at 115 grand. 01:19:54
From 1:15 grand. 01:19:59
We're not there yet. 01:20:01
In a second. 01:20:03
All right, 115 grand then. Do we have a staff report? 01:20:05
We do one second. 01:20:12
Alright, I don't know before you is the removal of 115 grand. 01:20:28
Ave. from the Historic Resource Inventory. 01:20:33
City records indicate the building was constructed in 1882. 01:20:36
Per Page and Turnbull. 01:20:42
Their evaluation notes include. 01:20:44
2 1/2 story addition at side and rear facades is highly visible and results in an overall loss of historic integrity. 01:20:47
Front porch has been partially enclosed, so the cumulative alterations have resulted in loss of historic integrity. 01:20:56
Page and Turnbull's recommendation is to remove the property from the HR I. 01:21:04
Therefore Staffs recommendation is to remove the property from the HRI. 01:21:08
This concludes my staff report. I'm available to answer any questions. Thank you. 01:21:13
Thanks. 01:21:22
Do we have? 01:21:23
Comments from the audience. 01:21:24
From from their virtual audience as well. 01:21:28
No. 01:21:32
Jeannie Anton, speaking as a private citizen to this house, I just want to remind you when if you read the packet that this house 01:21:34
was once lived in owned by the First Lady Mayor of Pacific Grove. 01:21:41
Which is one of the criteria for houses to be on the HRI that. 01:21:48
Somebody significant? 01:21:52
Lived and owned. 01:21:55
The house. 01:21:57
It it has some kind of an interesting historical background too, that it originally faced Fountain Ave. 01:21:59
And when they thought that Grand Ave. was going to be the Main Ave. and the PG. 01:22:06
They turned the house around. 01:22:12
Yes, it has been added on to, but if you went to look at the house, you'll see that it's. 01:22:14
It's a very lovely single family dwelling now. 01:22:20
Been brought back to. 01:22:23
A lovely state from once being a. 01:22:26
Kind of a beat up Fourplex. 01:22:29
So I just wanted to call that to your attention. 01:22:31
I think it should stay on the HR I. 01:22:35
Thank you. Thank you. 01:22:37
We have Pony Chiani online. 01:22:43
Well, OK, let's go with it. 01:22:47
Good afternoon. I think this is one of those cases that that. 01:22:50
That as you pointed out on the one just before this. 01:22:54
The consultants. 01:22:59
If you look at their report. 01:23:02
Acknowledge that they didn't do the historical. 01:23:03
Research on these properties. 01:23:06
These were primarily done. 01:23:08
As a windshield survey. 01:23:10
Or a walk in survey. 01:23:12
So they don't have the historical background. 01:23:14
To. 01:23:17
Support. 01:23:19
Or not support. 01:23:20
Listing of a building. 01:23:22
Regardless of its architectural character. 01:23:24
Umm. 01:23:27
This looks like Jeannie Byrne did it. 01:23:28
With all due respect, maybe it was Jeannie Burns, grandmother. 01:23:32
But. 01:23:37
This building should stay on. 01:23:37
The Historical HR I. 01:23:40
I strongly urge you to do that. Thank you. 01:23:43
Else. 01:23:50
With Lisa Channing. 01:23:53
Thank you on page and Turnbulls 2018 DPR form. 01:23:57
Their evaluation note says. 01:24:03
That. 01:24:06
A 2.5 story addition at side and rear facades is highly visible and results in an overall lot. 01:24:07
Excuse me, Loss of historic integrity. 01:24:15
Front porch has been partially enclosed. 01:24:18
Cumulative alterations have resulted in loss of historic integrity. 01:24:21
Well, if you then if you look at the 1977. 01:24:26
DPR form. 01:24:31
When it was originally listed. 01:24:34
And you compare the photographs. I mean, there is a a large. 01:24:38
Tree. 01:24:44
Sort of on the left side, but. 01:24:46
In the current. 01:24:48
Photo. 01:24:49
But. 01:24:50
So much looks. 01:24:52
The same that I don't quite get how. 01:24:54
How the? 01:24:58
Large. 01:24:59
Umm. 01:25:01
Addition, you know is. 01:25:03
It detracts from it. 01:25:06
Umm. 01:25:08
Anyway, I think it's a. 01:25:09
Um. 01:25:12
A very fine. 01:25:15
Historical home and and hearing that it also was. 01:25:16
First lived in by historical. 01:25:23
For person in PG a very historical very important historical person I would keep it on the HR I&I hope you will thank you. 01:25:26
Thank you. 01:25:37
Anyone else? We have Inga Lorenzen dummer. 01:25:40
OK, let's hear from her. 01:25:43
Thank you. 01:25:45
Umm. 01:25:47
How can you get more historic and Pacific Grove and Julia Platt? I don't know. So let's keep it on and keep it going going. 01:25:49
Thank you very much. 01:25:59
Are we done with? 01:26:05
Public input? No, they're hands raised. 01:26:07
Oh. 01:26:10
Let's bring it back to the board then. 01:26:13
Comments. 01:26:15
I'm convinced to keep it on. 01:26:16
Same here. 01:26:18
You too. 01:26:21
I too am convinced to keep it on. It was originally owned and built by George Laws in 1882. We haven't mentioned that Julia Platt 01:26:24
bought it later. 01:26:30
And she is the she bought the whole property from one St. to the other, and she's the one who turned it around. 01:26:37
And the confused Some confusion arises from the fact that the address changed when you did that, but it's the same house. 01:26:46
And. 01:26:54
For all the reasons that have already been. 01:26:56
Umm. 01:26:58
Talked about, I completely agree that we should keep it on the historic inventory, please. 01:27:01
Do we have a motion? 01:27:07
I move that we keep one. 01:27:09
15 grand on the HRI. 01:27:12
I'll second. 01:27:16
Do we have a vote then? 01:27:19
Umm. 01:27:22
Member Grannis. 01:27:23
Aye. 01:27:25
Remember Greening? 01:27:27
Vice chair steers. 01:27:30
Aye. 01:27:31
Remember Cleese? 01:27:33
Or eyes 0 nays. 01:27:35
One absent. 01:27:38
One recused motion passes. 01:27:39
OK. 01:27:47
Are we? 01:27:51
No. 01:27:55
The next two houses, 118 grand and 122 grand, are pretty close together is. 01:27:56
Is Jeannie Anton still recusing? 01:28:02
I believe so. Let me go check real quick. 01:28:06
Yes. 01:28:10
OK. 01:28:11
And we need a staff report on 118 grand. 01:28:13
The item before you is the removal of 118 Grand Ave. from the Historic Resource Inventory. 01:28:18
City records indicate the building was constructed in 1885. 01:28:24
Per Page and Turnbull. 01:28:29
Their evaluation notes include. 01:28:31
Sanborn maps indicate. 01:28:35
That the building was originally originally square plan with a rear projecting Bay. 01:28:37
Between 1905 and 1914, a Bay window was added to the front facade. 01:28:43
An open porch added to the north corner. 01:28:49
And expand it at the rear. 01:28:52
At an unknown date later after 1962, the front porch. 01:28:54
Was enclosed. 01:28:59
Alteration of the chimney and replacement of cladding with wood shingles. 01:29:01
Which would not have been original or additional alterations. 01:29:06
Cumulative alterations and additions result in a loss of integrity. 01:29:10
Page and Turnbull's recommendation is to remove the property from the HR I. Therefore, staff recommendation is to remove the 01:29:16
property from the HRI. 01:29:19
This concludes my staff report. I'm available to answer any questions. 01:29:24
Any comments from our? 01:29:33
In house. 01:29:35
Audience or our online audience? 01:29:36
We have Tony Chiani online. 01:29:41
I I urge the committee to keep this or to recommend this for the. 01:29:44
Neighborhood character list. Thank you. 01:29:50
Yeah. 01:29:54
What else? 01:29:56
We have Lisa Gianni on line. 01:29:58
Well, you know, in reading the 1977 DPR. 01:30:03
1. 01:30:09
What? 01:30:10
And. 01:30:11
By then it had. 01:30:12
The. 01:30:15
The shingle siding. 01:30:17
You know it's it. 01:30:20
I don't. 01:30:22
Wait, it is interesting that the change in the in the. 01:30:24
Chimney but. 01:30:28
It's it says The style of the building is that of the typical sea cottage of Pacific Grove, which is characterized by its 01:30:32
simplicity and form. 01:30:36
And. 01:30:41
OK, they they have made. 01:30:44
Changes. 01:30:47
But. 01:30:48
I I I don't know. I I will leave this one up to you, but I I'm not. 01:30:49
Sure, it's absolutely clear. 01:30:57
That. 01:31:00
That this should be removed. 01:31:02
I I would. 01:31:04
I would retain it if. 01:31:05
I were on the HRC. Thank you. 01:31:07
Thank you. 01:31:11
We have Angular, Rinse and Dahmer online. 01:31:14
Please. 01:31:16
Thank you. 01:31:18
I would retain it. 01:31:20
Or at the very very least, put it on the neighbourhood character list. 01:31:21
It does have. 01:31:27
You know. 01:31:29
It's up to you. 01:31:31
Thank you. 01:31:33
Thank you. 01:31:34
We have no other online commenters. 01:31:38
OK. 01:31:40
Bringing it back because they're bored? Then do we have comments? 01:31:41
I am not in favor of keeping it. I think that picture window has just changed the whole look of the whole house. 01:31:46
And if I look back at the older, there's an an older picture. 01:31:53
Umm, in our packet and to me it doesn't even look the same, so I I wouldn't want to keep an eye. 01:31:58
Yes, I think there is a a very major alteration to the chimney too. 01:32:09
With the the bold, the original one was. 01:32:14
Very unique to Pacific Grove, but they've changed the top of the chimney. 01:32:17
I would still keep it on the. 01:32:22
Neighbourhood. 01:32:24
List even if we don't keep it on the. 01:32:26
The historic. 01:32:30
And on the inventory? 01:32:31
I would agree with that. 01:32:36
With the two other committee members. 01:32:37
Yeah. 01:32:40
The window does make quite a difference. 01:32:43
Surprise. 01:32:45
And they. 01:32:45
Winters as well. 01:32:46
I would be, yeah. I would be inclined to keep it on the. 01:32:48
Historic inventory because all of those changes. 01:32:52
Have always been in character with the original and the changes have been. 01:32:58
One of the the Excuse me the Bay window was in 1914. 01:33:05
Which is early enough to be within the historic period. 01:33:11
Umm. 01:33:15
The period of historic significance. That's the correct term. 01:33:17
And the. 01:33:23
And closure of the porch. You're right, the windows are different. 01:33:25
But I'm satisfied that it's within the character of the. 01:33:32
Of the house, the original house, and within the character of the neighborhood that. 01:33:38
I'm leaning towards keeping it on the HRI so. 01:33:44
I can be swayed. Do we have a Do we have a proposal? 01:33:48
I can be swayed absolutely. 01:33:53
Is. I'd rather err on the side of keeping it. 01:33:55
If if it's a question, then. 01:33:58
Eliminating it so. 01:34:01
Well, I'll make a proposal then, that we. 01:34:03
Umm. 01:34:07
Say no to this proposal, which was to to remove it from the HR I, In other words, keeping it on the historic inventory. 01:34:08
Entirely. 01:34:18
That's my proposal. Do we have a second? 01:34:19
I'll second it. 01:34:22
So what exactly? In other words, they keep it on the HRI. 01:34:23
That is the motion to keep it on the HR. 01:34:27
So would it be an over if you're not going? 01:34:29
It it's confusing that way, Yeah, it's. 01:34:31
The proposal was to take it off. I'm saying no, don't take it off. 01:34:34
Gets confusing though. I would say yes. 01:34:39
Well, let's just. 01:34:41
Can I reframe the motion? May I go right ahead? Then I will make the motion. I make the motion to retain it on the HRI property 01:34:43
118 Grand Ave. 01:34:48
I'll second it. 01:34:56
And we have a vote. 01:34:58
Member, please. 01:35:01
Vice chair steers. 01:35:04
Member Greening. 01:35:07
Remember Grannis? No. 01:35:10
All right. We have three nose. Ohh. Sorry. 01:35:15
Three eyes. 01:35:19
One No. 01:35:20
One absent. 01:35:23
One recused. 01:35:24
And I believe the motion fails. 01:35:26
And how? 01:35:32
Alright. 01:35:33
Yes. 01:35:34
It's tricky because I think when we looked at the recommendation was to take it off if. 01:35:36
There was a motion. 01:35:43
To. 01:35:45
A failed motion means it stays on because we should, I think maybe if we if we did. 01:35:47
Another motion to remove it. 01:35:53
Have it on there. I hate to say it on the negative side, but go with. 01:35:57
What? What was recommended then? 01:36:00
Everyone. 01:36:03
I guess but the whole. 01:36:06
You can't. It's it's difficult to say let's not remove it when it's already on there. So you say let's you you made a motion to to 01:36:08
keep it on and everyone and to retain it. 01:36:14
But the the the fact that the motion fails doesn't remove it from the HR I because it has to be a motion to actually remove it 01:36:20
from the HR I. So if you were to redo that motion. 01:36:26
And have it as a removal. And there was one. 01:36:33
One eye to remove it and three nays and the motion would fail and it would remain on the HR I. So I would recommend to do one more 01:36:39
motion. 01:36:43
To. 01:36:48
Follow the recommendation the motion or or to the someone make. 01:36:49
If someone was so inclined to make a motion or it could also die I suppose if that if one if then you wouldn't have it. Logically 01:36:54
if he wouldn't want to wouldn't have a he would have a second Yeah that would be a problem. I'll move again that we we remove it 01:37:00
from the HR I but put it on the. 01:37:07
The neighbourhood character that's that's reframing what we had originally voted on, so. 01:37:14
I I think therein lies a conundrum of. 01:37:21
We bring it back to staff because however that works, that we. 01:37:24
Three of us, because we don't have a second. 01:37:28
That's kind of up to you staff policy, but I don't believe that it should be reframed to have us say something that we didn't 01:37:30
originally say. 01:37:33
That's fair. 01:37:37
Perhaps another alternative is to simply bring this item back, trail this item, and then bring it back where we consider more 01:37:42
houses for removal from the list. 01:37:46
When you have a full. 01:37:53
Yeah, yes. Well, we've got another person here that has. 01:37:55
All right. 01:37:58
Oh. 01:38:00
I'll make another motion to continue it. 01:38:02
Until the point when we have more. 01:38:06
A larger group of on the on the board that is voting. 01:38:09
Yes, second. 01:38:15
You're looking doubtful. All right, vice chair steers. 01:38:19
Ohh is that a vote? Yes. 01:38:26
We can simply get a vote of your committee to continue the item. 01:38:33
A motion and a vote to continue the item. 01:38:38
Make a motion that we continue this item until to a date unspecified. 01:38:44
OK. 01:38:50
Do we have a second? I'll second it. 01:38:51
OK. 01:38:54
Remember, please. 01:38:56
Vice Chair Steers, Aye. 01:38:59
Member Greening. 01:39:02
Member Grannis. 01:39:04
Aye. 01:39:06
We have four eyes, 0 nays. 01:39:07
One absent 1 recused motion passes. 01:39:10
OK. Thank you. 01:39:17
122 Grand Ave. 01:39:22
Well, that's the end of the agenda. She wants to go home. She could do one more. 01:39:31
Listen. 01:39:37
122 grand, but she's. 01:39:38
Recusing herself. 01:39:40
Yeah, Chair Anton is recused for this item for all of the houses on Grant. 01:39:43
That's our last. 01:39:48
Yeah. 01:39:50
That's the last item you have to close the meeting. 01:39:51
As the chair. 01:39:53
OK. 01:39:55
The other way. 01:39:58
We have. 01:39:59
We have one one more item left. 01:40:00
All right. 122 grand. 01:40:05
All right, the item before you is the removal of 122 Grand Ave. from the Historic Resources Inventory. 01:40:07
City records indicate the building was constructed. 01:40:17
In 1905, per Page and Turnbull, the revaluation notes include. 01:40:24
The large addition obscures original form and design of the residents. Cumulative alterations, including additions and inclosed 01:40:31
porch, results in loss of historic integrity. 01:40:37
Page and Turnbull's recommendation is to remove the property from the HR, therefore. 01:40:44
Staff recommendation is to remove the property from the HRI. 01:40:48
This concludes my staff report and I'm available for any questions. 01:40:52
Thank you. 01:40:57
You look like you wanna say something. 01:40:59
OK. 01:41:04
And umm. 01:41:07
Let's hear from the. 01:41:10
Audience including the. 01:41:12
Online audience. 01:41:16
Are there any comments? 01:41:19
We have Lisa Chiani. 01:41:21
Thank you. 01:41:25
Well, there is in the cities records at least no 1977 DPR form we compare. 01:41:26
The. 01:41:35
2018. 01:41:36
DPR form. 01:41:38
2. 01:41:39
It. 01:41:42
Looks like it may not. 01:41:43
Be eligible to stay on the HR I but. 01:41:49
Anybody could change my mind easily? Thank you. 01:41:53
Thank you. 01:41:57
We have Tony Chiani. 01:42:01
OK. 01:42:03
It's interesting that it wasn't on the 1977 list. 01:42:07
But. 01:42:10
You wonder how it got on here. 01:42:11
If it's on the HRI now. 01:42:15
I would recommend that you keep it under. 01:42:18
It appears. 01:42:21
By the photographs. 01:42:23
In the report by Page and Turnbull. 01:42:25
That there was a second floor addition to the property. 01:42:27
Umm. 01:42:31
It looks like the the addition was. 01:42:32
In character, the original building. 01:42:35
It's set back. 01:42:38
It doesn't overwhelm it. 01:42:41
I see no reason not to keep it on. 01:42:43
I recommend you keep it on. 01:42:46
Thank you. 01:42:48
Thank you. 01:42:50
Do we have any other? 01:42:51
Yes, we do. We have Angular, Rinse and Dahmer. 01:42:53
OK. 01:42:56
This is another one that at the very least, keep it on the neighborhood character. It certainly is neighborhood character. 01:42:58
And. 01:43:07
In absence of that other form, the DPR form I. 01:43:08
Leave questions. 01:43:14
To whether it should remain or not. 01:43:16
Thank you. 01:43:18
Thank you. 01:43:20
We have no other commenters. 01:43:23
OK. We'll bring it back to the board. Comments anybody. 01:43:24
Well, I guess I'm a stickler for Windows, because I I do think these windows that are in there now. 01:43:34
Are completely different from. 01:43:40
Umm. 01:43:43
What was there before? 01:43:44
And of course, the little. 01:43:46
Umm. 01:43:48
Gabbling up on the top. 01:43:49
Is different. I I don't know how I really feel about this. I'd rather hear from the rest of you right now. 01:43:53
Anyone else? 01:44:00
Well, I'll chime in while you. 01:44:05
Think about it. 01:44:07
Alright. 01:44:09
I have to agree with the page and Turnbulls assessment that. 01:44:10
Even though it's a very handsome building and it's. 01:44:16
Generally in historic integrity with the neighborhood, it's not in a. 01:44:20
It's been so vastly changed. 01:44:25
And the front of it that it really has to be removed from the historic inventory. 01:44:28
But said certainly beyond the neighborhood character list. That's my point of view. 01:44:34
Agree with that. 01:44:41
Yes, so would I. 01:44:44
I would. 01:44:45
Would agree. 01:44:47
I think there's too many changes done. 01:44:49
To keep it on the HRI, but I think it has the character of the neighbourhood. 01:44:52
Would you like to make a motion? 01:44:58
I move that we remove. I move that we remove 122 Grand Ave. from the HRI list. But consider putting it on the neighborhood watch. 01:45:04
I mean character, sorry. 01:45:15
Too many neighborhood things. I'll second that, yes. 01:45:19
Member Grannis. 01:45:29
Did you get a second? 01:45:31
Yes. 01:45:33
Yes. 01:45:35
Vice Chair Steers, Aye. 01:45:37
Remember Greening? 01:45:40
Member, please. 01:45:43
We have four eyes, 0 nays. 01:45:45
One absent, 1 recused. 01:45:48
Motion passes. 01:45:51
Thank you. 01:45:53
Thank you. 01:45:54
We'll have Jeannie Anton. 01:45:57
Pick up her chair as. 01:46:06
Yeah. 01:46:08
All right, Good job. 01:46:10
So that does conclude our business, I believe. 01:46:13
So do we have any reason to? 01:46:17
Hold up the meeting any longer. 01:46:20
Alright, thank you. Thank all three of you really for being here that's that's great support for us and. 01:46:23
I will make a motion. 01:46:30
Do we need a motion? Can I just declare the meeting? 01:46:33
I'm sorry, Garrett, you have something, maybe just another reminder about the special meeting on November 15th? 01:46:36
20/23 at 1:00 PM. 01:46:43
Thank you. And and we're calling it a special meeting because it's not at our normal time. 01:46:46
I mean, aside from that, it's not like. 01:46:50
Anything out of the usual, it's just a different time. Everybody understands. 01:46:53
OK, all right. I declare the meeting adjourned. 01:46:58
Thank you. 01:47:02
Thank you for coming. 01:47:03
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