No Bookmarks Exist.
It is 6:01 PM minute late. I am Stephen Lilly and I will call to order this October 19th, 2023 Special meeting. 00:00:04
Of the Pacific Grove Planning Commission. 00:00:13
Mr. Campbell, will you please call the roll? 00:00:15
Is would that be you tonight or? 00:00:19
Mr. Sidor. 00:00:21
Chair Lily under the other this evening. 00:00:23
So, Commissioner Davison. 00:00:25
Commissioner Murphy. 00:00:30
Here. 00:00:33
Commissioner Nuzenski, Commissioner Sawyer here and Chair Lily. 00:00:33
Here. 00:00:38
Chair Lily, We have a quorum for this evening's meeting, with five commissioners present and two commissioners absent. 00:00:40
Commissioners Frederickson and Kubica. 00:00:48
OK is, Mr. Sedor said. We have. 00:00:51
5 Commissioners present. To my left is Vice Chair Murphy, to my right or Commissioner Sawyer, Davison and Izinski. 00:00:54
Commissioners could be cut and Frederickson have excused absences. Nevertheless, we have a quorum. 00:01:01
The meeting tonight is being conducted under revised rules mandated in Assembly Bill 2449. 00:01:08
This is a hybrid format with our meeting in chambers and virtually or with zoom participation. 00:01:13
The women are ID and toll free telephone numbers are on the agenda face sheet. 00:01:19
When the host opens the agenda for public comment, those wishing to speak. 00:01:24
Via Zoom Should press Star 9 to raise your hand and then Star 6. 00:01:28
To unmute when recognize. 00:01:33
Before we continue, let me remind. 00:01:37
All of you, including myself, that we must turn on our microphones and speak directly into them so that our equipment can properly 00:01:39
record us, because we've had a couple of problems in the past. 00:01:44
We now come to our agenda. Does anybody have any changes to the agenda? 00:01:50
If not, may I have a motion to approve the agenda? 00:01:57
Commissioner. 00:02:03
Sawyer. 00:02:04
I make a motion to approve the agenda as noted. 00:02:05
All right. Is there a second to the motion? I'll second the motion. So, Commissioner. 00:02:09
Sir, you're moved. Approval of the agenda is submitted and that was seconded by Vice Chair Murphy. 00:02:15
Is there? 00:02:20
Umm. 00:02:21
Any. 00:02:22
Further discussion about this. 00:02:23
Or should then, Mr. Sidor, would you please call the roll? 00:02:25
Commissioner Sawyer. 00:02:29
Aye. 00:02:31
Vice Chair Murphy. 00:02:33
Aye. 00:02:34
Commissioner Musinski. 00:02:36
Aye. 00:02:38
Commissioner Davison. 00:02:39
Aye. 00:02:40
And Cheryl Lilly. 00:02:41
Aye. 00:02:43
Share The motion is adopted by a vote of. 00:02:44
5 to 0. 00:02:48
Good with you absent. 00:02:49
So we now come to Commission and staff staff announcements #3 on our agenda. 00:02:53
Does any Member of the Commission have an announcement? 00:03:00
Is your Sawyer. 00:03:07
I just have a couple of questions. And it's mainly just to sort of see where we are. I am wondering where are we with the Title 23 00:03:09
corrections? Has this been sent to Legal and are we going to see it any time soon? 00:03:17
When will we be seeing the Tribal Resources and Tribal Monitoring Document? 00:03:26
Is there an update on the draft document from Integral Consulting for Coastal Hazards section of the Local Coastal Plan? 00:03:33
The last report from Mr. Sidor stated that data collection and modeling was being done. 00:03:42
I'm just wondering when that might come. 00:03:48
Just to us to see. 00:03:50
I believe also there's been a problem with Mr. Robert Davison. 00:03:53
Who keeps getting? 00:03:58
Emails for our Mr. Davidson and I'm wondering if the CD could look at their listing to ensure that they have the correct spelling. 00:04:01
So this poor gentleman. 00:04:06
Quits getting all of this city. 00:04:13
Mail. 00:04:15
And I'm wondering when are we going to see the meeting and policy procedure updates that we have requested to look at for the 00:04:17
Planning Commission? 00:04:21
And I was also wondering, we usually have a work plan update included in our. 00:04:26
Agenda and I did not see it here this time and I was wondering why that was. Thank you. 00:04:33
OK. Are there any other announcements from members of the Planning Commission? 00:04:41
If not, I have a couple of announcements and I will also answer a couple of missus or of Commissioner Sawyers. 00:04:47
Questions. Because they probably lie with me. 00:04:55
I'll begin with the work plan. Usually I update the work plan and put it in the package. I didn't this month because. 00:04:58
We had the housing element and there just wasn't the time, so that's no reflection on anything the staff didn't do, they. 00:05:05
They did what they were supposed to do. That's my feeling and I will have it in next. 00:05:11
Months agenda, which I think our meeting is on November 9th if I'm not mistaken. So that's the situation with the work plan. 00:05:16
But any case last just a report, a couple of things I have Last night the City Council approved a contract with Mr. Lou Bauman to 00:05:26
be Interim Community Development Director. 00:05:30
Previously, he was with at Monterey County for 20 years. 00:05:35
And last served as Chief Administrative Officer. I'm not sure of his start date, but that's what I understand is the situation. 00:05:38
Last night I appeared at the City Council meeting and urged they support revisions to the draft housing element. 00:05:48
Mr. Sidor will have more details about that. 00:05:57
During the that portion of the agenda that deals with the housing element. 00:06:00
But. 00:06:05
As I said. 00:06:06
Last night I attended that City Council meeting to present our recommendations. 00:06:07
On that draft housing element. 00:06:12
During the public comment. 00:06:14
Period. 00:06:16
On Zoom, several individuals used racial slurs and epithets to disrupt the meeting. 00:06:17
Appropriately mere peak admonish them to stop and City Attorney Peric advised, and they were disrupting a public meeting. 00:06:23
They refused to cooperate and were subsequently muted. 00:06:30
Let me state very clearly there is no place for this kind of disruptive conduct in our community meetings. 00:06:34
This type of hate speech that disrupts our meetings will not be tolerated. 00:06:40
We need and welcome public comment at our meetings, members of the community. 00:06:45
Exercise their right to address government councils, committees. 00:06:49
And agencies. 00:06:52
And do so with many thoughtful, incisive comments. 00:06:53
That is transparency, a hallmark of our system of government. 00:06:57
As chair? I asked speakers. 00:07:00
To identify themselves and their address, although they. 00:07:02
Don't have to, according to the legal counsel. 00:07:05
Further, I will enforce our rules for time limits on comments and maintain order. 00:07:08
Thank you for your patience and let me address this. I think it needed to be said after. 00:07:13
The shock of hearing what we heard last night from. 00:07:17
A number of individuals who. 00:07:21
Have engaged in this kind of conduct all over California in the last few weeks. 00:07:23
Including shutting down the Monterey City Council meeting recently so or a meeting of that council recently. So just wanted to 00:07:28
make those comments. 00:07:33
We'll move on. 00:07:38
Umm. 00:07:41
As far as the. 00:07:42
Pardon. 00:07:45
Ohh. 00:07:47
Are there any staff announcements? Mr. Campbell, do you have any announcements? 00:07:51
Just address the Title 23 updates and whether or not that has gone into legal. It hasn't gone to legal fully yet. Joe Sidor and I. 00:07:55
Need to discuss? 00:08:05
A direction for what? What legal's going to do and Joe has been neck deep in the housing element. So trying to get a meeting with 00:08:08
him to do that has been difficult and we do plan on doing that next week. And as soon as that meeting is ready we have the 00:08:14
guidance to for for legal, we will be handing that off. 00:08:20
Chair. 00:08:31
Regarding the Cultural Resources Monitoring Protocol. 00:08:33
Umm. 00:08:37
That item. 00:08:41
Has. 00:08:43
Well, there's there's a need to. 00:08:46
Amend the contract. 00:08:48
To add more to to the budget for that contract in order to. 00:08:50
Have the consultant available for public meetings. 00:08:54
And so that's something that the public works director is. 00:09:00
In the process of working on right now and. 00:09:06
So that. 00:09:09
Protocol will come back to the Planning Commission at a future date, still to be determined. 00:09:11
For the coastal hazards. 00:09:17
I will be following up next week with the consultant to find out. 00:09:19
Where they're at with the modeling and when they anticipate submitting. 00:09:24
A draft to staff. 00:09:31
And regarding the. 00:09:34
Issue with Mr. Robert Davison receiving. 00:09:38
Emails intended for Ross Davidson. 00:09:43
On the Planning Commission. 00:09:48
That issue was addressed by IT several weeks ago when this first issue when this issue first came up. 00:09:50
And was identified the the addresses are correct in the cities e-mail groups. 00:09:58
So. 00:10:05
It it may be a situation I I don't know for certain, but it may be a situation where someone has. 00:10:07
A cashed e-mail address group. 00:10:14
That they're using that has an incorrect e-mail address, so I would just ask. 00:10:18
The planning Commissioners and. 00:10:23
Members of the public, if you're using an old cashed e-mail group address list to please make sure that. 00:10:26
Is updated. 00:10:35
And that's all. 00:10:38
Thank you. 00:10:39
Thank you. 00:10:40
Add one thing to Mr. or ask Mr. Sidor a question then. 00:10:42
For the tribal monitoring protocol. 00:10:48
Will that? 00:10:52
Document be superseded The one we have now be superseded by something else or. 00:10:54
I don't quite understand. I I don't have any more information at this time, I'm sorry. 00:11:00
Let me also say, in response to Commissioner Sawyer's comment about where that was, I bear some responsibility for that not being 00:11:06
on the agenda this evening because. 00:11:10
There was quite a few bit of of discussion at the last. 00:11:15
Our September meeting about. 00:11:19
Problems with the document and I can understand why staff might want to have Rincon review the situation because I found it. 00:11:21
Very confusing to read over the weekend and there's there's some redundancies and things I frankly don't understand. So we'll 00:11:28
probably have to meet offline to go over this. So I appreciate your. 00:11:33
You're addressing that issue. 00:11:39
So if there's no more other staff announcements, then I will go to legal counsel announcements I trust that we have. 00:11:43
Erica Vega, our assistant City Attorney with us on Zuma. Is she here or there? She is. 00:11:50
Welcome. 00:11:56
Thank you. I don't have any announcements for you this evening. 00:11:57
OK, good. Well, I'm glad you're here. 00:12:00
So now we come to. 00:12:03
Council Member Coletti, do you have any announcements from the City Council? 00:12:05
Yeah, Good evening, Chair and members of the Commission. 00:12:10
Council did act on the count on the housing element last night and. 00:12:13
On a four three vote sent it to HCD, essentially. 00:12:19
It's pretty much the same. 00:12:24
Recommendations that the Planning Commission made essentially to eliminate home key. 00:12:28
Language as well as site. 00:12:33
At the the Noah site, but we also. 00:12:36
Added. 00:12:39
Bringing based on staff recommendation. 00:12:41
We added. 00:12:44
The removal of the Community Center site. 00:12:46
And we will include. 00:12:50
Or staff will be using the 50 or so comments, edits that the Planning Commission worked up when they. 00:12:52
Or. 00:13:00
Reviewing the document. 00:13:01
Other than that, council really didn't develop any policy on their own, so. 00:13:03
The document is headed to 8 CD and we'll see where it goes from here. Have a good meeting. 00:13:09
Thank you. 00:13:15
We now come to item five, general public comment. 00:13:17
This must deal with matters subject to the jurisdiction of the City and the Planning Commission, but are not on the agenda this 00:13:20
evening. 00:13:23
This is an appropriate time to comment on items in the consent agenda. 00:13:27
But only if the speaker does not wish to have the item pulled. 00:13:31
Comments from the public will be limited to 3 minutes per speaker and will not receive Commission action. 00:13:34
Comments regarding an item on the agenda will be heard at the time of the Commission's consideration of that item. 00:13:40
Before we continue, I I would mention that we have received numerous letters and emails. 00:13:47
They are included in our agenda packet this evening, or at least in part. Others were submitted for after the distribution of the 00:13:52
agenda packet. 00:13:56
Our administrative technician, Debbie Gonzalez, keeps a copy of all communications in our. 00:14:01
To our Commission in a binder, in the, in her, in the Community development office. 00:14:06
Which is free for inspection by. 00:14:11
Any member. 00:14:14
Of the community. 00:14:15
Our public at large. 00:14:16
Would anyone like to address the Commission on matters not on the agenda? 00:14:20
All right. Hearing none, then we'll move on to the consent agenda. 00:14:27
Charlie. 00:14:31
We do have two Microsoft right in front of me and I didn't see it. 00:14:33
Apologize. So this is Lisa Chiani and is that correct? 00:14:39
Yes, thank you. 00:14:43
Welcome. 00:14:44
Thank you. 00:14:45
And I was a little slow getting my hand up there. I'm sorry. 00:14:47
I just wanted to. I appreciate hearing. 00:14:52
Why the archaeological protocol is not on? 00:14:56
The agenda tonight and. 00:15:00
And I do hope if they're taking time to. 00:15:03
To. 00:15:06
Adjust or revise that that contract. 00:15:08
That there will be some. 00:15:11
Um. 00:15:14
Maybe major work done in making that a a? 00:15:16
More user friendly. 00:15:22
And straightforward. 00:15:25
And accurate. 00:15:27
A document. 00:15:30
But I guess we'll see. All right. Thank you. 00:15:31
Thank you. 00:15:36
Is there anyone else? 00:15:40
Chair No other attendees have their hand raised. 00:15:44
All right. Well, thank you. 00:15:47
Now we can go to the consent agenda. 00:15:49
Which deals with routine and uncontroversial non controversial items and may include actions on. 00:15:52
Resolutions, ordinances are up, other public hearings for which testimony is not anticipated. We only have one item this evening 00:15:58
on the consent agenda and that is the Planning Commission minutes for eight August 10/20/23. 00:16:04
As listed in the agenda item 7A. 00:16:11
Reports requiring action. 00:16:15
Would any Commissioner like to remove this item? 00:16:17
From the consent agenda. 00:16:20
Commissioner Sawyer. 00:16:22
I would like to move to remove that from the consent agenda there are. 00:16:25
A number of Corrections that need to be made. Thank you. Can we take care of those this evening as as an agenda item later on? 00:16:31
Absolutely. All right, We'll do that because I want them approved. 00:16:36
Therefore, since that's the only item on the consent agenda, there's no need to have a motion to approve. 00:16:43
The consent agenda, because there's nothing on it. So we'll move on. 00:16:48
Well, now we're at the regular agenda. We tonight we have hearings under sections 8A and eight through 8C. 00:16:53
Before we proceed, let me briefly review our rules. First, we will have an agenda and staff report. 00:16:59
In the. 00:17:06
Applicant. 00:17:10
Our proponent involved with the. 00:17:12
Hearing will. 00:17:15
Or the proposal? 00:17:16
We'll be given 10 minutes to speak. 00:17:18
There would be. 00:17:21
If there is a, and I have to ask Mr. Campbell this, if anybody has asked for time to speak in in opposition to the. 00:17:23
And you you've indicated, no, it's that OK. I was going to say if that were the case, then there would be brief rebuttal or 00:17:30
surrebuttal regarding that. I will then open the public hearing for comment. Those wishing to speak will have 3 minutes each. I 00:17:36
would then close the hearing to further comment from the. 00:17:42
Public and the Commission. They can ask questions to deliberate and make a decision. 00:17:49
We should also be aware that findings and conditions are a necessary part of the decision making process. 00:17:55
Therefore, the Commission at its pleasure. 00:18:00
May either make a single motion that includes both findings and the decision, or make separate motions for findings and a 00:18:02
decision, and those findings or decisions would also include, as appropriate, sequel compliance. 00:18:09
So the first item we have is item 8A. 00:18:15
Planning Commission call up of AUP which is administrative use permit. 00:18:18
23-0179 and that would be at 215 Forest Ave. 00:18:23
Assessor Parcel number 006282026 and so I will now open the public hearing. 00:18:29
Let me briefly review this situation and then Mr. 00:18:37
Campbell can give his staff report. 00:18:42
On July 17th, 2023, then Community Development Director. 00:18:44
Why it issued an administrative use permit for a pub? 00:18:49
Food service. 00:18:52
Music venue at 5215 Forest Ave. which used to be an embroidery or T-shirt shop. 00:18:54
Miss Lorenzen Dahmer. 00:19:00
Requested a hearing on the matter which was later held on Monday, August 21st, 2023. 00:19:02
Subsequently, on August 28th, 2023, Director Wyatt, then Director Wyatt issued an administrative use permit for this project. 00:19:09
Then on September 14th. 00:19:16
2023 This Planning Commission voted to call up this matter for further review. 00:19:19
Reasons for the the call up included. There seemed to be some confusion about what this establishment would be, and so we're here 00:19:25
this this evening to to get information about that. 00:19:31
Umm. 00:19:37
There was also insufficient indication that the project involved the development of proper kitchen facilities is required. 00:19:39
For a bona fide any place. 00:19:45
So we called it up. 00:19:48
So at that point or this point now, Mr. Kendall, Mr. Campbell, can we have your staff? 00:19:51
Report which I believe came in the package. The general report did. I do have a presentation. Thank you, Chair and members of the 00:19:56
Commission. 00:20:01
I will be presenting the call up and this is of the August 21st Zoning administrator hearing decision as you had said, I'm going 00:20:08
to give you just a little bit of. 00:20:12
Let me make sure that I am. 00:20:19
There we go. A little bit of the background here. I won't go too deep into it since. 00:20:23
Chair Lily mentioned it the on 7/27/2023 the request was filed for the zoning hearing concerning the administrative use permit 00:20:30
for. 00:20:35
Wait, 2-3. 00:20:40
Dash 0179 and on that permit, it said, allowing alcohol sales at 215 Forest Ave. And that's the popping hiss. 00:20:42
That meeting was scheduled. The hearing was scheduled for 8/21/2023 and the zoning administrator. 00:20:50
Recognize some discrepancies. 00:21:00
The between both the notifications that were mailed. 00:21:03
And the posting and one had said restaurant and one had said pub and that had caused some confusion. 00:21:07
At that time, the administrator directed staff to clarify the use. 00:21:15
With the applicant and then issue an updated administrative use permit. 00:21:20
On the August 28th they updated AUP. 00:21:27
Allowing the pub use in the commercial downtown. 00:21:32
Zoning District was issued and posted for a 10 day period to allow the request for public hearing and the permit was considered 00:21:35
effective on the 11th day. That's nine. 00:21:39
I believe it's the 8th that might have the wrong day on there, 2023. 00:21:44
And as you said on the 14th during the general public comment. 00:21:48
At the regular Planning Commission meeting to request the call at the zoning administrators decision was made. 00:21:52
And the PC voted to call up that decision. 00:21:57
At the next available meeting. 00:22:00
Since it seems that there are some confusions about procedure. 00:22:03
And and we didn't actually get much direction from why this item is being called up, possibly procedural, possibly something 00:22:09
having to do. 00:22:14
With the state ABC license. 00:22:20
I'm going to run you through. 00:22:23
The review and administrative use permits and this one particular, but I'm going to be a little general. 00:22:26
And add some other things in here that might clarify some. 00:22:31
Some of the the policies and procedures. 00:22:34
First thing is we received the application. 00:22:39
And when we receive a. 00:22:42
An application for an administrative use permit and it's just for the use and this is without development. 00:22:45
We meet with the applicant to discuss the activities. 00:22:51
That are. 00:22:55
To be related to. 00:22:57
This business in this particular meeting, originally Laurel. 00:22:59
O'halloran was was the planner. 00:23:04
And it was found that the original application instead. 00:23:08
Deli food and alcohol. 00:23:12
And music venue. And so when a planner gets these things, we look at it and we say. 00:23:15
OK. 00:23:21
These don't fit into a box. 00:23:23
How do we fit these into a box? What do we do? So we we go to our Chapter 23 and see, see what uses actually support these 00:23:25
activities. We don't have music venue. 00:23:30
But we have. 00:23:35
Different uses that allow. 00:23:36
Alcohol sales. We have uses that allow food service. 00:23:38
And with those uses. 00:23:43
Music. 00:23:46
Is also allowed. 00:23:47
So we were able to come down with something and they're basically 2. 00:23:48
To uses that were. 00:23:52
Compatible with this and one was breastaurant and the other was pub. Unfortunately both. 00:23:55
Were somehow mixed in on the original permits. 00:23:59
Once that. 00:24:07
Compatible uses identified in this particular case the pub use for us and and what ended up being on the application after the 00:24:08
zoning hearing which we were instructed to. 00:24:15
To clarify with the applicant. 00:24:22
We make the applicant aware of any conditions that might be related to that and those conditions are included in the 00:24:25
administrative use permit and they must be adhered to or the permit may be revoked. So this is actually just a view of of what we 00:24:30
have here, the. 00:24:34
And this is a typical planning. 00:24:39
A permit. 00:24:42
This one in particular. 00:24:43
Is the updated version with the the. 00:24:46
The location, 215 Forest Ave. and an important thing that we look at here is really when we receive these is the zoning district, 00:24:50
which is commercial. 00:24:55
Commercial downtown. 00:25:01
When we look at that and we say what is the purpose of commercial downtown zoning district? 00:25:04
And we try to, it's actually it's right in the code. So we look to see if that use is going to be compatible with the commercial 00:25:08
downtown in this case. 00:25:13
Includes retail, restaurant services, entertainment, upper floor residential and other compatible uses which enhance the vitality 00:25:18
and character of the city's historic commercial core. 00:25:23
And we again we say what are the allowed uses? 00:25:29
And this is actually the graph of the allowed uses that are. 00:25:32
This this table is actually huge. I just took out a little section and highlighted some that I can describe the way that this 00:25:38
works. 00:25:42
You can see up Top Bar, Tavern and Nightclub. 00:25:46
Is has little dashes. 00:25:50
Those are not allowed. 00:25:53
And if you look over at the sea. 00:25:54
Did you go down that column there? 00:25:56
And you find what is allowed and and we have a UPUP. 00:25:59
NP. 00:26:04
First, addressing PPP is a permitted use. 00:26:06
There is no planning application required for the permitted use. However, when the business license is applied for, we receive a 00:26:09
zoning clearance form from our third party licensing agency. 00:26:15
And that asks us, is this use and allowed use in this particular district and we respond with either yes or no. 00:26:22
And and then the business license is then? 00:26:30
Either issued or not. 00:26:33
An AP is an administrative use permit. 00:26:36
Those outlined. 00:26:38
In our zoning. 00:26:40
Or as you can see, next to under specific use regulations we have 23.64 point 290. 00:26:43
Those give us the rules. 00:26:50
For each of those. 00:26:52
Uses and each of those rules are put onto the permit. 00:26:54
And I'll get into that a little bit, a little bit further, a difference between the use permit and and administrative use permit. 00:27:00
I'm going to come back. 00:27:08
Is that? 00:27:10
All administrative approvals, they're based on findings. 00:27:11
In the code. 00:27:16
They're all based, all the conditions are based. We do not have any discretionary. 00:27:17
Review of permits, administrative uses. They have to be spelled out. 00:27:22
And we passed that on. 00:27:26
In the permit and they are given to the applicant with that permit, that is that is issued. 00:27:28
So another thing when we meet with our our applicants is any applicant, we try to make sure that whatever they're doing. 00:27:37
Meets the definition of what they are requesting, and keep in mind this is a use. 00:27:44
Without development, it's basically asking can I have this use in this location? 00:27:49
And the answer? 00:27:55
Is yes. 00:27:57
But it's yes, with conditions and conditions that are clearly spelled out. 00:27:58
In the zoning. 00:28:03
So we would meet with our clients or clients or applicants and say hey, you want to do. 00:28:05
A bar, Tavern, nightclub. 00:28:11
Can't do it. You're out. 00:28:13
You want a restaurant. You have to meet these definitions, and that's only part of it. 00:28:14
Definitions are only part of of what they are. Definitions tell us what something is, and there are some requirements and 00:28:18
definitions, but also. 00:28:22
We have our conditions of use that have further requirements. 00:28:26
We have findings of fact that we have to meet again. These findings are. 00:28:32
Directly. 00:28:37
From the zoning code in this case. 00:28:39
Chapter 23.70 point 030 under Staff Approvals. 00:28:45
E is the findings under that and one through 5 are additional use. 00:28:51
Permits or, sorry, not addition, not use permits, but administrative use permit findings that we're required to find on top of 00:28:55
that. 00:28:58
There is also a section that takes us to the Planning Commission findings that we have to meet. 00:29:02
Those findings as well and those findings are placed. 00:29:07
This is a cut out of the actual permit. 00:29:11
For. 00:29:14
Pop and hiss. 00:29:15
We placed those findings. 00:29:16
On the permit. 00:29:18
To to let people know that we do. 00:29:19
Follow these findings and that we actually have to as administrative staff. 00:29:22
So. 00:29:29
Simple question. 00:29:30
Why do uses require use permits or administrative use permits? 00:29:32
Conditions. 00:29:38
That's it. The reason that they the difference between a permitted use. 00:29:40
Administrative use permit. 00:29:45
Is that? 00:29:47
Conditions are applied and they're spelled out in the zoning. 00:29:48
So. 00:29:51
That's why you would need and the. The difference between an administrative use permit and use permit is there are some. 00:29:54
I mean, there does have to be a connection with with. 00:29:59
With code with use permit is the Planning Commission. 00:30:02
So in this, what are the conditions of use for a pub? 00:30:07
And then the brew pub. 00:30:10
The and this the same minimum requirements. This is in. 00:30:12
23.64 point 290. 00:30:17
Which is alcoholic beverages. 00:30:21
And it lists the minimum requirements for this use and these are. 00:30:24
That all alcoholic beverages and food services to customers shall be discontinued between the hours of 12:00 AM and 7:00 AM. 00:30:29
The business shall comply with the ABC license requirements for a bona fide public eating place. 00:30:36
All foods from the standard menu should be available for purchase during all but the opening and closing hours of alcoholic 00:30:42
beverage service. 00:30:45
And this may include different menus for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Meals and amplified and unemployed Music and entertainment 00:30:49
are allowed indoors. 00:30:53
And should not generate noise in excess of 70 decibels. 00:30:57
65 between the hours of 10:00 PM and 12:00 AM. 00:31:01
At the property line. 00:31:04
Of any such site amplifying them. And this says the same thing for outdoor music. 00:31:05
These. 00:31:11
We sit down with the applicant. 00:31:12
And we explain. Can you meet these requirements? 00:31:14
The answer is yes. 00:31:18
There's nothing that we can do prior to the business starting to say that they cannot. 00:31:20
They we cannot prove that they wouldn't be able to meet these requirements. 00:31:25
We have to see it. 00:31:28
After the business was. 00:31:30
In place, especially when it comes to music. 00:31:32
As pertaining to the ABC license requirements for a bonafide public eating place, that is not a. 00:31:35
Specific. 00:31:41
Liquor license. 00:31:42
We do not. 00:31:44
Mandate the type of license they have. But we do say because in our code it says you have to have an eating establishment. 00:31:46
With a pub. 00:31:52
We took the definition. 00:31:54
For the ABC's. 00:31:55
Eating place, Bonafide eating place. 00:31:58
And they have to meet that requirement. 00:32:00
This is also taken directly from the the. 00:32:06
Permit that was posted. 00:32:11
On the 828. 00:32:13
And they have all of the conditions of approvals listed. 00:32:16
So what happens once the AP is issued? 00:32:21
It's posted for 10 days, giving people a chance to request a hearing. It's considered. 00:32:24
Effective on the 11th day. 00:32:30
Then the applicant submits plans to the building department. 00:32:33
And the. 00:32:37
The. 00:32:38
Conditions of approval that are required for that use. 00:32:39
Are required to be. 00:32:43
Included in those building plans. 00:32:44
What happens there is that. 00:32:47
The building department receives the plans. 00:32:49
They see there are conditions of approval. We actually also notify them to their conditions of approval. It gets sent to us to say 00:32:52
are they meeting the conditions of approval. 00:32:57
For this use. 00:33:02
If they are. 00:33:03
It goes back to them and they continue with the. 00:33:04
With issuing their building permits if it does not. 00:33:07
Then we require them to meet the conditions of approval before they can. 00:33:09
Even get their building permits, let alone open their business. 00:33:14
After that, if. 00:33:22
They're all met. The final check, as I mentioned before, is a business license. 00:33:24
And we do that through a third party licensing company and what they do is we the applicant applies for a business license and the 00:33:28
and the third party sends us a zoning verification form and they say hey. 00:33:34
This this person is applying for a license. Is this allowed in that district? 00:33:40
And we send it back and say yay or nay. And in this case, if we receive something for that, they have to still go through. It's 00:33:47
like basically our final check. 00:33:52
Or we say we don't issue a business license. 00:33:57
Without knowing. 00:34:00
Fully well that that that use is is allowed. 00:34:01
And finally for this, if at any time the conditions of approval are not met, the administrative use permit may be revoked and that 00:34:07
is again back to the very first thing that is said in 23.6. 00:34:13
4.290. 00:34:19
About alcoholic beverage sales and the failure to maintain food service or any other applicable requirements of this section. 00:34:22
Or failure to comply with any conditions of the use permit or administrative use permit shall be grounds for revocation of the use 00:34:28
permit. 00:34:31
Or administrator you've used permit. 00:34:35
Depending on what authority. 00:34:37
Issued that permit. 00:34:40
They are the people who have the opportunity to revoke that license. 00:34:42
Or that that use use perfect. 00:34:45
So again, the key takeaways I have from this is in this case, is a public use allowed? 00:34:50
In the commercial district. 00:34:56
The answer is yes, with an AUP and applicable conditions of approval. 00:34:58
I'm also, uh, point out since that. 00:35:04
Some questions about what this use is. 00:35:07
Someone had questioned about there's a retail use, by the way. Retail use is one of those permitted uses that do not require. 00:35:12
Planning permit, so if there's anything. 00:35:19
Beyond this. 00:35:22
It it, it's really outside of anybody's purview, so if they want to have a record. 00:35:23
Store this is a very large space in a part of this there it's a permitted use we will receive. 00:35:28
That zoning verification from the business licensing. 00:35:34
A contractor and. 00:35:38
We'll say. 00:35:39
Yay or nay on that? 00:35:41
Does he use requiring ABC license? Yes. But the state is the regulatory authority for the sale and issuance of those licenses. 00:35:44
Does the city require a specific ABC license? No, but we do require that a bona fide eating place as defined by ABC. 00:35:51
Is required. 00:36:00
Which we find that through the building permitting process which we've done for. 00:36:01
Every administrative use permit. 00:36:06
That we've. 00:36:09
Issued. 00:36:10
Our plans required with the application for an AUP that does not have development. 00:36:12
No. 00:36:17
Conditions of approval will be attached to building plans again and zoning compliance will be verified. 00:36:19
And has the applicant agreed to the conditions of these approval? And yes. 00:36:23
They are aware of the conditions of approval and if they are not met. 00:36:27
The use will be. 00:36:31
Revoked. 00:36:33
Our our determination is that staff followed the requirements and procedures as prescribed in 20 Title 23 as I pointed out. 00:36:36
The call up lacks merit and. 00:36:44
Or valid justification. We haven't seen any. 00:36:47
No one has really brought us to anything that would. 00:36:51
Give us reason to say that this use was not allowed. 00:36:54
And so our our recommendation is just to inform affirm the administrative decision of zoning administrator for a UP23-0179. 00:36:58
At this point, I'd also like to have Erica Vega hop on. 00:37:08
And give us a little bit of guidance and direction as to what this? 00:37:12
This type of hearing is called hearings. 00:37:16
What we what we do and and how we move forward with that. So if Erica could could speak that would be great. 00:37:19
Yes, thank you. So I just want to clarify procedurally that this call appearing is what we call a de Novo hearing. So there's you 00:37:27
know, there's no appellant or respondent, it's it's treated as if it was the initial hearing. So the decision is made based off of 00:37:34
the findings that are listed in the code that were pointed out to you in in Aaron's presentation. It just as if the Planning 00:37:42
Commission was the initial approving authority. So procedurally that's how it runs. 00:37:49
Which also means that the order of testimony is the same to psychol of your typical public hearings. 00:37:57
And that your decision needs to be made based off of. 00:38:01
The findings that are provided, that is the the crux of of the decision making process here. So if there is any concern about the 00:38:05
ability to make one or more of those findings, we would need a specific information as to why you believe one of those findings 00:38:10
cannot be made. 00:38:15
We extend your remarks, Miss Vega. 00:38:27
That. 00:38:32
Yes, we already have any questions we're we're here for you. 00:38:34
I think we'll defer questions until later until we've had the applicants presentation and then the. 00:38:38
And then public comment. 00:38:45
If that works. 00:38:47
So with that. 00:38:48
The applicant is free to come forward and make a presentation, I believe. 00:38:51
There's a representative for the client. 00:38:56
I don't know your name, so would you please state so and welcome? 00:38:59
That I think it's off. So you have to press a button. There you go. 00:39:13
Yeah, you turned it back off. Now it's on. 00:39:18
You got it. You got. No, you don't. Alright, alright, we got it. 00:39:20
Good. 00:39:23
Thank you. My name is attorney Eric von Ferrick. I am. 00:39:24
Miss Kesters legal representative in this matter. 00:39:27
And I've been authorized to speak to you tonight on her behalf, and I. 00:39:32
Very much thank you for the opportunity to speak in front of you tonight and may I have a time check on this just so that I can 00:39:38
keep my. 00:39:42
Remarks on time. 00:39:46
I think it was 10 minutes, but 10 minutes. But I don't, I don't have a countdown there, so yeah. 00:39:50
Thank you. 00:40:00
I believe, as has already been stated by by Mr. Campbell and staff, that this has already. 00:40:03
This is a permitted use, but I think it would be useful to go ahead and. 00:40:09
Go through the procedural posture which brought us here and it already has been alluded to to some extent. 00:40:13
This first started on June 28th when the application for an APU was submitted. 00:40:19
That application. 00:40:27
Facially had a. 00:40:29
Had a small defect on it. It stated that it was. 00:40:31
Going to be for a restaurant. It was then changed to a pub to conform to the code for the APU. 00:40:34
At that point, the zoning administrator stated that it was a permitted use. 00:40:41
And. 00:40:47
There were also there were complaints that came in in the interim that stated that. 00:40:48
Uh. 00:40:52
There. 00:40:53
Needed to be a bona fide eating. 00:40:56
Place in. 00:41:00
Linked to the ABC license that that really is not correct. 00:41:02
Of the ABC license on point for Miss Custer's. 00:41:07
Establishment. 00:41:11
Is going to be a type 90 and I will get into that in a minute. 00:41:12
The zoning administrator determined that the sale of alcoholic beverages for consumption is consistent with the provisions of the 00:41:18
city's General Plan and Municipal Code. 00:41:23
They're Then on September 14th, there was objection by. 00:41:28
By a miss Dahmer which stated that there are procedural errors and and the the applicant applied for the wrong ABC license. This 00:41:33
was not. 00:41:37
This was not there was no foundation to this at all. And it was not. 00:41:43
Supported by any factual evidence whatsoever. It was merely an allegation. 00:41:47
So on the On the mission, on a motion by Commissioner Sawyer. 00:41:52
This was. 00:41:56
And also seconded. 00:41:58
The Planning Commission voted in favour of a call up. 00:42:00
And then there's the findings are the ABC license requirement for a bona fide public eating place, as set forth in the in the code 00:42:05
is not. 00:42:09
Requirement. 00:42:13
For an ABC license. 00:42:14
And per the code, failure to maintain food services or any other. 00:42:16
Applicable requirements of this section. 00:42:20
Our failure to comply with any conditions of the administrative use permit shall be grounds for revocation. 00:42:23
I'll get into that a little in a little bit in more detail as well. 00:42:28
Made it earlier. 00:42:34
The type of license that Miss Kenster is has. 00:42:35
Officially. 00:42:39
Applied for with the ABC is called a type 90. 00:42:41
On sale. 00:42:45
General music slash music funeral venue which states. 00:42:46
Authorizes the sale of beer, wine, and distilled spirits. 00:42:51
At the retail consumption on the premises in a music entertainment facility is defined by. 00:42:54
Business Professions Code 23550. 00:42:59
Sales, service and consumption of alcoholic beverages are limited to. 00:43:02
The time period from 2 hours. 00:43:06
Before live performance until one hour after live performance and minors are allowed on the premises. 00:43:09
That really is the type of license that is on point for the pop and hiss. That is what it's fairly new. 00:43:14
Which might have been worth some of the confusion came from, but is absolutely on point with the type of license that she needs 00:43:22
for that. 00:43:25
For her business. 00:43:29
Stated there were. 00:43:32
Comments by the public earlier that stated. 00:43:35
That there were procedural errors with regard to her application, as we stated, as I stated earlier. 00:43:38
The only the only air was the dominus and facial. 00:43:43
Error which stated that the was being applied for was a restaurant that has since been remedied. 00:43:48
To a pub and that is on record and is in the agenda packet tonight. 00:43:52
There there was also a an allegation that there was this was the wrong ABC license. 00:43:59
Again, without any foundation any evidence that it's the wrong one. 00:44:04
I just read to the. I just read to the Commissioners. 00:44:08
That this is. 00:44:10
On point and exactly the type of. 00:44:13
License ABC License that the Pop and his needs. 00:44:15
Also, next I want to get into the duties of of the staff, OK, the staff here. 00:44:24
Mr. Campbell. 00:44:29
Zoning administrator. 00:44:31
They have a duty to the city. 00:44:33
And to the and to the community. 00:44:35
To not allow a non conforming. 00:44:37
Use. 00:44:39
They have a duty as part of their employment to not allow that. 00:44:40
Well, they both allowed it and you've heard a very detailed presentation from Mr. Campbell tonight. 00:44:43
That it should be allowed. 00:44:48
And there's really no compelling evidence to the contrary. 00:44:50
The only facts in here, in this, in this matter, have been remedied as stated in the facial de minimis. 00:44:52
Error in the initial application that has, I stated been remedied. So there. 00:44:59
The duties of the staff. 00:45:05
Are to not allow a nonconforming use, and they are stating that this is a conforming use. I think that's important to mention. 00:45:07
Next thing I want to talk about is community protection. 00:45:19
All right. And hopefully this will go to alleviate some of the angst with regard to this project. 00:45:22
Has been stated earlier that the city reserves the right. 00:45:27
Planning Commission reserves the right. 00:45:31
Our staff return reserves the right As for oversight over this entire enterprise. 00:45:33
This entire enterprise. 00:45:38
You will have if there is something that is not being done, if there is something that is not being done to code. 00:45:39
This this authorized use permit. 00:45:45
AUP can be. 00:45:48
Basically rescinded at anytime at anytime from now. 00:45:50
From approval. 00:45:54
Up to the point of building permits. 00:45:55
To the point of opening and thereafter. 00:45:58
At any point in this process, should there be nonconforming use? 00:46:00
And the city has a factual basis to back that up. 00:46:03
This permit can be. 00:46:07
Rescinded. 00:46:09
I'd like to just you know also. 00:46:17
Reiterate what the the the Deputy City Attorney stated earlier that this Commission here the five of you tonight. 00:46:19
You're basically a fact finding. 00:46:27
Organization. 00:46:28
And. 00:46:29
There are no facts. 00:46:30
There are no facts. 00:46:32
That. 00:46:34
State that this is not. 00:46:35
Out and approved. Use no facts at all on the record. 00:46:37
All the facts support that this is a permitted use. 00:46:40
And the decision that you that you render tonight? 00:46:44
Should be 100% fact driven and fact driven only and not subject to any type of arbitrariness, capriciousness. 00:46:48
Or political pressure. 00:46:56
At all. 00:46:57
Of any kind. 00:46:58
You're a fact finding organization, and that's what this permit should be contingent on. 00:47:00
And I'd like to just finish and close. 00:47:12
That. 00:47:16
I am the personal representative, legal representative of Miss Kenster in this matter. 00:47:17
It the letter of Notice of representation is on file with the city. 00:47:22
Any and all communication regarding this matter should go through my office and not to miss Kenster at all. 00:47:26
There have been communications with her in the past, and I would respectfully request that that stop. 00:47:33
I would also ask that. 00:47:39
Any unfounded allegations or any type of unfounded interference? 00:47:41
With miss. 00:47:45
Hesters ABC license. 00:47:47
Stop. 00:47:49
Finally. 00:47:51
Two at 2:15. 00:47:53
Forest Ave. 00:47:55
Is not a site open to the public yet. 00:47:56
There have been several instances of people walking in off the street. 00:47:58
And going in for whatever reason. 00:48:02
That is a trespass civilly and criminally and will be treated as such from here on out. 00:48:05
So do not go in. Please tell the people listening. Do not go into 215 Forest Ave. It is not a public venue. 00:48:10
Finally. 00:48:19
Every day that's being delayed and this has been delayed further than it should have been at this point. 00:48:20
It's costing my client money. 00:48:25
She cannot. 00:48:27
The investigation for ABC license cannot commence. 00:48:29
Until this. 00:48:32
Authorized use permit is granted. 00:48:33
That's costing her money every month that she cannot open her business. 00:48:36
Additionally, she also cannot employ some of her contractors until this is approved. 00:48:41
So every bit of delay is literally taking money out of her pocket. 00:48:46
And so I would. 00:48:50
Respectfully request. 00:48:52
That based on the fact that staff has already stated. 00:48:54
And. 00:48:57
That this call up is without merit of any kind. 00:48:58
That you vote to approve. 00:49:01
This authorized use permit. 00:49:04
Thank you. 00:49:05
Thank you. 00:49:08
Does that conclude staff or I mean applicant presentation? Yes, OK. 00:49:10
Then we will go to and then yours. 00:49:17
Your presentation is completed, Mr. Campbell. Good. 00:49:21
Then we'll go to public comment. 00:49:25
And is that something that? 00:49:27
You're looking at well. 00:49:30
I think we'll go first to. 00:49:32
Zoom in and Inga, Lorenz and Dahmer has her hand raised. 00:49:35
And then I will. 00:49:40
Go back and forth from zoom to the audience. 00:49:42
There's anybody in the audience that wishes to speak? 00:49:45
So, Miss Dahmer, welcome. 00:49:48
Thank you very much Chair, Lily and. 00:49:52
Commissioners. 00:49:55
Umm. 00:49:56
That was a. 00:49:58
Very comprehensive. 00:49:59
Presentation and the big guns out. And I can assure them. 00:50:03
I have not communicated with Michaela in any way, nor ever step foot around. 00:50:07
The premises and I have no problem with her getting. 00:50:14
Her business going, I really don't. 00:50:19
But same as the ABC issues a liquor license according to their rules. 00:50:23
Pacific Grove was the issue, and AUP, according to PG. 00:50:29
Rules in our municipal code and all I have wanted added in. 00:50:35
Is. 00:50:41
Condition 3. The wording that was in there first. 00:50:43
Use permit granted. 00:50:47
Which were then subsequently discretionarily taken out was. 00:50:50
Condition 3. Alcohol Beverage Control ABC. The business shall comply with the ABC license requirements for a bonafide eating 00:50:56
place. 00:51:02
That is the only thing I want the words for. A bonafide eating place added in because those are the words of PG's municipal code 00:51:08
and you as a Planning Commission need to adhere to the words of our code. 00:51:16
And frankly, staff and issuing an AUP needs to comply with the words of our code also. 00:51:25
I I want Michaela to be. 00:51:33
Fully able to move on, you know. 00:51:36
With a legitimate AUP, but we need to have those words in there. 00:51:41
To comply with our. 00:51:46
Code. 00:51:48
And. 00:51:50
I know we are unlike other jurisdictions and if if 90 and the ABC considers that license good enough for a bona fide eating place. 00:51:54
Then it's fine. 00:52:05
Two hours before performance I have no problem with noise. Anything else I just want an AUP. 00:52:07
To accurately state. 00:52:15
What is in our Pacific Grove? 00:52:17
Municipal. 00:52:21
Code. 00:52:22
I don't even need my 3 minutes to say that. 00:52:23
I'm glad we got all this other. 00:52:26
Information that I have certainly reviewed on my own prior to this. 00:52:30
But there were two or three other discrepancies in the the original one and this one. 00:52:35
I just want these words added. It's very simple. 00:52:42
Because ABC can do their thing, but we must adhere to. 00:52:45
The wording in our. 00:52:50
Municipal code. 00:52:52
That's it. 00:52:54
Thank you very much. 00:52:56
Thank you. 00:52:58
Thanks, Speaker is Tony Chianni. 00:53:07
Welcome. 00:53:10
Good evening, Commissioners. 00:53:13
I really appreciate the fact that the Commission pulled this up and I appreciate the. 00:53:16
Detailed explanation by. 00:53:21
Staff this evening about the procedures. 00:53:23
What is not clear to me even now. 00:53:27
Even after that presentation, is. 00:53:31
Is this a change of use? 00:53:33
Change of use. 00:53:37
What was? 00:53:40
Or is. 00:53:41
The existing use is at retail. 00:53:42
And what is? 00:53:45
The new use going to be it's going to be a pub. 00:53:47
Slash bar something like that. 00:53:50
My experience is beyond that. 00:53:54
When you change from a retail use. 00:53:56
To a restaurant use of bar, use or. 00:54:01
Pub use. 00:54:04
That there's an intensification of the use. 00:54:05
And usually there's an intensification of the parking requirements for that use. 00:54:09
And those are based upon the occupancy. 00:54:14
So if the occupancy is. 00:54:16
Going to be. 00:54:18
Pub. Bar. Restaurant. 00:54:20
And the density and the. 00:54:22
Building is going to be greater than that. 00:54:24
It would have been as a retail use. 00:54:27
And that. 00:54:30
Means there's going to be more people there. 00:54:31
More parking requirements. 00:54:33
At least. 00:54:35
And if it's going to change from a retail use that didn't have a sink? 00:54:38
And a bar does have a sink then. 00:54:42
I'm assuming there's going to be building permits. 00:54:44
And I think the applicant even indicated that there would be. 00:54:47
That there's contractors involved. I think I heard that word. 00:54:50
That there's building permits involved that brings me back to the staff presentation that. 00:54:53
You know, on the cover sheet, usually the. 00:55:00
First sheet of the plans. 00:55:03
Under the general conditions, would be the requirements for. 00:55:05
The new use permit. 00:55:10
Such as? 00:55:12
The requirements for entertainment, music and stuff like that. 00:55:13
And. 00:55:18
I'm concerned that if you look at the whole site without plans, you're looking at this without any plans. 00:55:22
Are they planning to have outdoor entertainment? 00:55:29
Are they planning to remove existing parking? 00:55:32
I don't know. 00:55:36
Do you? 00:55:38
Is. 00:55:49
Mr. Ciani Dunn or. 00:55:50
I'm done. 00:55:52
Thank you. 00:55:53
Well, thank you. 00:55:55
Like he dropped off. 00:55:58
All right. 00:56:01
Is there anyone in the Zoom audience that wishes to speak? 00:56:05
If not, I will go to the audience present in the chambers this evening. Is there anyone in the audience in the chambers this 00:56:09
evening that would like to speak? 00:56:13
Miss McMurdo, I recognize you. Welcome. 00:56:21
Good evening, Chair Lily and commissioners, My name is Jenny McCarthy. I'm the President and CEO of the Pacific Grove Chamber of 00:56:26
Commerce. 00:56:29
And I did send a letter today. Thank you for looking at that. I appreciate it. 00:56:33
And we're here in support of trying to find a solution tonight. And we really hope that the planning commissioners will look at 00:56:37
everything and really find a way forward so this business can succeed. And we'd love to see the new business in our downtown. 00:56:44
We're excited to welcome them. So we hope that tonight you can find a way. 00:56:50
Forward for this applicant. 00:56:57
Thank you for your service. 00:56:58
Thank you. 00:57:01
Alright, is there anyone else who would like to speak? 00:57:04
Please come forward. 00:57:08
See if this is tall enough. 00:57:15
Hi, thank you very much for hearing my my concerns and thoughts. 00:57:16
Ohh, let's see. 00:57:22
The I'm here to speak about the findings #8. 00:57:23
In the presentation. 00:57:27
My name is Annalisa Miller and we own the building directly across from the back parking lot. 00:57:30
And Michael and I have been in communication, so we're trying to communicate and work things out. 00:57:35
To discover and understand. 00:57:43
The discrepancy between. 00:57:45
A venue that needs food. 00:57:47
Uh. 00:57:50
Attached to the the Type 90 ABC license. 00:57:51
And where that food is served. 00:57:55
For right now, we understand it's going to be in a a portable. 00:57:58
Unit on the back parking lot. 00:58:01
Umm. 00:58:04
Perhaps there can be? 00:58:06
A way to control the noise. 00:58:08
However. 00:58:10
The awareness again is that there are 8 residential units. 00:58:11
I never received a contact that this was going in as per ABC requirements. I do have my letter stating here in July, but. 00:58:16
Nothing from the group. 00:58:26
That wants to open the business we'd love to have. 00:58:29
A great music venue on our street. We it's a wonderful St. 00:58:31
There is an enclosure. That is all. 00:58:36
Concrete wall. 00:58:41
And that is going to amplify sound. 00:58:42
And even though the venue of music will be inside. 00:58:45
The discussion of doors opening, closing doors opening, closing till 1011 at night is a concern for residents I have. 00:58:49
Tenants that have children that go to school at the middle school and it's right outside that window. So this isn't so much a. 00:58:56
Personal it is, but. 00:59:04
How do I determine and how do we as residents on the street understand? 00:59:07
That. 00:59:11
The. 00:59:12
Food truck use is part of. 00:59:14
Planning and is is. 00:59:18
Can address this type 90 ABC licensing. 00:59:21
And. 00:59:25
If indeed the noise exceeds. 00:59:26
As stated in the findings #8. 00:59:29
Umm. 00:59:32
How do we go from there? It would be a shame to have somebody spend so much time, energy and money on a business. 00:59:33
When the consideration wasn't. 00:59:40
Intact in the beginning. 00:59:42
So hopefully I. 00:59:44
I'm able to, kind of. 00:59:46
Let you know that we'd love to support businesses in our community and our street. 00:59:48
But the sound is concerned and the parking is a big concern. 00:59:54
And we'd love to write as owners of property on that street. Maybe there's a possibility of doing some kind of. 00:59:58
A parking permit. 01:00:04
In front of the buildings. 01:00:05
Of of, you know personally owned buildings so that. 01:00:07
Tenants have a place to park and we have a place to park too, so that was my in conclusion. Thank you for listening to my concerns 01:00:11
and thoughts. 01:00:14
And have a lovely evening. Thank you. 01:00:18
Is there anyone else who would like to speak? I think someone else raised their hand in the audience. 01:00:24
Surely there's also one more virtual attendee who has her hand raised. OK, we'll recognize her shortly. 01:00:34
Welcome. 01:00:41
The. 01:00:43
In. 01:00:44
28. 01:00:45
About one. 01:00:46
Yeah. 01:00:49
I bought one of the little live work buildings on Grand Ave. across the street from where the fire pit, food truck and stage. 01:00:50
Um side of what will be the pop in his? 01:00:58
My building is a long term rental and the storefront is also available for rent. Greyhound has massive potential and with the 01:01:01
right person running a business who has that it factor likability that attracts people, sales, laughter, experiences, all those 01:01:06
good memories. 01:01:12
And judging by all the support that Michaela got. 01:01:18
At the last meeting, it seems like Michaela has got that magic. 01:01:21
Potentially to bring life and energy to our street. 01:01:25
Why am I here? 01:01:28
Three things. One to welcome Michaela. 01:01:29
I hope everything comes to fruition. 01:01:32
To say that there is a vibrant live work. 01:01:35
And live community on Grand Ave. people who live there permanently or for three to four months. 01:01:38
At a time to learn foreign language. 01:01:43
Language Institute or TO? 01:01:46
Contracted engineers. Nurses. 01:01:49
Adult kids visiting their parents that have small homes, this kind type of thing. 01:01:52
And they could be your customers. 01:01:57
They'd love healthy lunch. Uh, they could take lessons, maybe even perform on your stage. I could imagine having. 01:01:59
Ocean View parklets with students waiting for their lessons and. 01:02:06
Using the Internet, maybe a T-shirt shop? Who knows. 01:02:09
Umm. 01:02:12
My point is that remember when we put the tables down the middle of the street and block the traffic. 01:02:14
We have multiple famous musicians that have buildings on this street. 01:02:19
And we have a Juilliard trained musician. They're already so. 01:02:23
This is all to say. 01:02:28
Welcome to Grand Ave. and not only do I welcome you welcome you, but I invite you for any synergies with Michaela. 01:02:30
Grand Ave. and the City of Pacific Grove. 01:02:37
Thank you. 01:02:41
Thank you. 01:02:41
So I think there was one name on the. 01:02:47
Zoom That would be Katie Stern. 01:02:52
Hi everybody. Thank you so much. I wanted to voice my support for Poppin Hiss. This is something that we've been waiting for in 01:02:57
Pacific Grove for a long time. 01:03:02
We already have a group that's very active looking to create an arts district and I feel this would be really amazing to 01:03:07
collaborate with Pop and Hiss in the Arts District. 01:03:12
It feels like something that would benefit multiple generations I also want to address. 01:03:18
The car issue. Our community is so walkable. I know a lot of us enjoy biking and walking downtown. 01:03:25
I'd like to remind everybody that not everyone travels by car, and I think that. 01:03:32
We don't always need additional parking just because a new business is entering the town. 01:03:37
Yeah, just want to voice my support. Thank you so much for. 01:03:43
Joining the community and I I hope you're successful. 01:03:47
Thank you and thank you for your service. 01:03:51
Thank you. 01:03:54
Any further comments in the audience on Zoomer in Chambers? 01:03:58
Yes, Chair. The next speaker is Dean H. 01:04:03
Yes, I'm sorry. Would you prefer to go with the virtual attendees first or go with the gentleman that's standing up in the 01:04:07
chambers and then we'll go to Christine H. 01:04:13
They're not virtual. You're real. You're real. Yeah, we have very real. 01:04:21
Um, am I good to go? It says 207. 01:04:28
Good evening, Commissioners. Thank you. 01:04:37
I've been. I am. My name is Sloan Camping. I'm trained as a city planner, though I'm not employed just one right now. 01:04:47
Umm. 01:04:53
And. 01:04:55
The community of Pacific Grove. 01:04:57
Cares very much about following the the code. 01:05:00
Here, as they should. 01:05:05
As do you. 01:05:06
Umm. 01:05:08
Mr. Ziani's comments that we just heard, he was he was pointing to a a change of use. 01:05:11
Now it would be my understanding that the change of use can only occur after. 01:05:19
Uses there. 01:05:22
So. 01:05:25
That they're seeing, I would, I would implore the citizens here to. 01:05:27
Understand what the code is and what this means. 01:05:32
Umm. 01:05:36
You know, Miss Dahmer spoke about wanting words added to an application here. 01:05:37
And to her point, we want those applications to be consistent and correct with the code. 01:05:44
And to the point, the staff. We want them to be consistent correct with the code however. 01:05:50
Words should not warrant a three month process, a three month delay. 01:05:55
In the process of a business trying to open. 01:06:00
A few words shouldn't do that. 01:06:04
Um, errors are found on applications all the time. 01:06:08
And they're corrected for in a timely manner. 01:06:12
And. 01:06:17
Though Miss Dahmer, you know, she says. 01:06:18
I I I'm happy that she wants this business, but. 01:06:22
She has been the impetus of this process, of this delay in this process because it was her comments. 01:06:25
That brought us to where we are now. 01:06:31
In terms of adhering to requirements, my understanding is this business and Michaela has done nothing but that. Staff has reported 01:06:35
that. 01:06:40
The zoning administrator has said that. 01:06:45
And here we are to hopefully affirm that, and I really hope that you do. 01:06:47
And in terms of parking requirements, this is a downtown district. I don't know what the exact parking requirements are. 01:06:53
But. 01:06:59
If there is. 01:07:01
Things that need to be added to the code. 01:07:03
For that. 01:07:05
By all means you can do that. 01:07:06
But for now. 01:07:09
This is conforming. 01:07:11
From what I hear. 01:07:13
From where I stand. 01:07:14
Thank you for your time on this. I'm. 01:07:17
And I certainly hope you affirm this. 01:07:20
So that a business can finally open. 01:07:23
And be consistent with the code. 01:07:26
Thank you. 01:07:27
Thank you. 01:07:28
Makes the speaker as Christine H. 01:07:37
Welcome. 01:07:41
Hi, thank you, Commissioners. I my name is Christine Hara and I'm a community member in Pacific Grove and I just wanted to call in 01:07:44
to express my support for pop and hiss. 01:07:50
I think it's wonderful what Michaela is putting together for our community, because not only would adults be able to enjoy this, 01:07:57
but I'm also thinking about students of music who would potentially have another venue to perform or even to. 01:08:04
Purchase food there when they're waiting for music classes and whatnot. 01:08:11
Umm. 01:08:15
I find it. 01:08:16
Really disturbing that this process has been able to take three months based on. 01:08:18
Verbiage that needed to be changed in the application and I understand the reasons for that and why we have codes in the first 01:08:24
place. 01:08:27
But I really do implore the Commission to. 01:08:31
Approve this. 01:08:34
Project and not have it hinge on having the wording of. 01:08:36
Bona fide pub, or whichever language that was, and in order to approve it. 01:08:41
This is one of our citizens in our one of our community members who's losing quite a bit of money and she's only trying to create. 01:08:46
More culture and more art. 01:08:53
And so I hope that the Commission is willing to approve it today. Thank you. 01:08:57
Thank you. 01:09:01
The next speaker is Lisa Chiani. 01:09:09
Welcome. 01:09:12
Thank you. 01:09:14
I I just wanted to ask. 01:09:15
Something about something that's not clear to me, but maybe it's clear to you and that'll be great. 01:09:19
But. 01:09:24
At the beginning of staff's presentation, there was reference to. 01:09:25
A use permit. 01:09:31
With. 01:09:34
Without development, as if as if we're talking about. 01:09:34
About. 01:09:39
A permit. 01:09:41
That doesn't involve development and then later. 01:09:42
We heard. 01:09:46
That. 01:09:48
That. 01:09:50
Contractors are not being able to start. 01:09:52
And the a building permit is required and I think building permits are for development. 01:09:55
So I I found that confusing but. 01:10:01
Again, it may be perfectly clear to you and and thank you for your. 01:10:05
Careful consideration of this issue. 01:10:11
Thank you. 01:10:18
No other attendees have their hand raised. I think there's one out in the audience, the lady in OK Luke. 01:10:22
Welcome. 01:10:27
Hi, I just wanted to personally say that I helped Michaela on this project through the whole process in terms of helping with 01:10:32
design and everything. And I know that she was very diligent from the very beginning before she started anything to make sure that 01:10:38
she worked with the city. 01:10:43
To go through what their requirements were, what they needed as it changed even through the process as they were understanding the 01:10:49
code. She was very good about going through doing updates in a timely manner to actually. 01:10:56
Get through and make sure that she was complying and now that they have actually twice. 01:11:03
Now confirmed and approved it. 01:11:10
The fact that it's going on like this is kind of disheartening because the whole. 01:11:13
Process is supposed to be that the professionals go through, there's approval and then she can continue with what she's doing. 01:11:17
And so as a professional, this is kind of interesting to see in the design community that this is taking so long and that the 01:11:25
public is able to kind of hold it up in this process. 01:11:30
After multiple times of being approved. 01:11:37
And so I'm hopefully tonight there can be a conclusion so that she can continue. 01:11:39
The project and move forward with the whole process and so the community can then have a place and it can be open to them as well. 01:11:45
And they can see that she is in compliance and she can actually follow through with all the things that she can't prove right now, 01:11:51
but that she has told them that she will follow through with and that they are. 01:11:57
That she's able to actually do that. So thank you. 01:12:04
Thank you. 01:12:08
Mr. Sidor is at. 01:12:16
I believe that's all the speakers for this item. OK. 01:12:18
Vice Chair Murphy. 01:12:23
I I think I have to make a few disclosures. I live fairly close to Papa and his, but I'm outside the 500 foot. 01:12:24
Conflict zones, so I think I'm OK to be part of the hearing. 01:12:33
I didn't attend the last. 01:12:37
Meeting when this project was called up, but I did. I did watch it on on video. 01:12:40
And they also want to say I did attend. 01:12:45
The administrative hearing on the 21st of August. 01:12:47
Thank you. 01:12:51
I also will say at this point to that I attended the August 21st public hearing with Mr. Murphy was there. 01:12:53
And did not speak, just sat in the audience and and watched. 01:13:01
Commissioner Sawyer, did you have a comment? 01:13:06
I also attended the August meeting as well and. 01:13:09
Made no comments, just listen to what was being presented. Thank you. 01:13:13
All right. We now come to. So that will conclude then the public comment portion of the hearing. 01:13:17
So we will now move on to Commission. 01:13:24
Discussion and. 01:13:28
Potentially, possibly resolution of this. So who would like to begin? 01:13:31
Like you like, do you have any would like to ask questions or of of the applicant or the staff? 01:13:41
Because I have some, but when you're done, you know, maybe we can all. 01:13:47
Decide what we. 01:13:52
Yeah, I know. I I just have a couple of, I just have a couple of questions. 01:13:53
And we're required to make findings in order to make them like I think we have to understand them. 01:13:58
And one of the findings says the location size design. 01:14:03
And operating characteristics of the proposed use are compatible. 01:14:08
With the existing and future land uses in the vicinity. 01:14:12
Can you, I guess, Mr. Campbell, just briefly tell us a little bit about the. 01:14:16
Design and operating characteristics. I'm not sure exactly what that means here. 01:14:20
In general, thank you, Commissioner. 01:14:25
This is an existing building. So again, we're back to development to understand what development is. It's not a fit out or a 01:14:28
tenant improvement. 01:14:33
Where contractors are involved in development is. 01:14:38
For example, when you receive a use permit for. 01:14:41
For any development project that that you you see you are required to have plans because there's nothing there. 01:14:46
We have something there. So the design in this case just means the existing building's existing build. Yeah, that's pretty much 01:14:52
it. Thank you. 01:14:56
Umm. 01:15:00
In this. 01:15:02
And thank you also for your presentation that. 01:15:04
I think that helped me understand a bunch of things I perhaps didn't understand before, so thank you. Thank you very much. 01:15:07
I. 01:15:13
I've heard reference to a food truck. 01:15:13
And I I don't know whether. 01:15:16
I understand in our condition that a bona fide eating place is required. 01:15:19
And I guess again, I don't know if there is going to be a food truck or or not. 01:15:24
But if there is, is that a bona fide eating place? 01:15:28
If if there is only a food truck and not a kitchen and again I I don't know if that's the existing. 01:15:33
Situation and. 01:15:38
That perhaps Mr. Font Ferrick could answer that if. 01:15:40
The first question is to Mr. Campbell. We would we would first have to see so the definition of bona fide eating place, which is 01:15:44
actually written on the. 01:15:49
The permit. 01:15:54
Umm. 01:15:55
It does have to meet those. So if they're the food truck, we'd have to know the food truck, we'd also. 01:15:57
They will be required to get, just like, you know, an ABC license. We say the state is the authorizing agency. 01:16:02
Food truck is the county. 01:16:10
For that aspect of it, so we would have to we've got two requirements there we're going to have to meet our requirement says it 01:16:11
has to meet a bona fide eating. 01:16:14
Eating place. 01:16:17
And and again we do that through our our building process and they will let us know because we can't again we can't issue. 01:16:19
We can issue a business license. We can issue the the contract or the the building permits without knowing. 01:16:28
That there is a that it meets the requirements for a bona fide eating place. Thank you and if Mr. Fun Fact if you wanted to. 01:16:34
Add anything? 01:16:42
Yes, please. 01:16:43
Alright. 01:16:52
So for clarification. 01:16:52
There's been some references to a food truck similar to that. 01:16:54
That other facilities around the area. 01:16:59
Have this will be in an immobile. 01:17:02
Uh. 01:17:05
Fixed. 01:17:06
Place it'll be the the back end. 01:17:07
Of a food truck without. 01:17:09
Mobility. 01:17:11
So we'll be there on site. 01:17:12
And I can also reassure. 01:17:15
People. 01:17:17
As well, that miss. 01:17:18
This Kenster has done her due diligence in this matter. 01:17:21
She has talked to city officials. 01:17:24
With regard to this, what conforms? What does not conform? 01:17:26
And she's been given. 01:17:29
Things that she needs to. 01:17:30
Put in what she needs to build, and she fully intends to do so. 01:17:32
With regard to a backup kitchen facility. 01:17:36
That sort of thing. So I want to kind of dispel and try to reassure some people that this will be. 01:17:39
Code conforming. 01:17:45
Bona fide eating place and if it is not like I stated in my presentation. 01:17:46
You are all free to rescind. 01:17:51
The the authorized use permit. Thank you. That's helpful. And I I do have another question. 01:17:53
And I realized that ABC. 01:17:58
And permanent is is outside our purview. 01:18:00
But but I'm just curious, you mentioned a type 90 license and the way you described it. 01:18:03
Sounded as if. 01:18:10
Alcohol could be served only if they were live performance and still misunderstanding. That's correct, it states. 01:18:13
Two hours before a live performance. 01:18:19
Until one hour after a live performance is stated as the type 90. 01:18:21
Life insurance. But does that mean other times you cannot serve out? Correct. 01:18:26
That's correct. So it's if there is a live performance, then it's two hours before. 01:18:30
When all rafter. 01:18:34
So if they're performer 6, they. 01:18:38
Can't. 01:18:40
Yeah. 01:18:42
Again this. 01:18:44
That's the service of alcoholic beverages. Only now the place can remain open and not serve alcoholic beverages. 01:18:46
If that is, if those criteria are not met, OK. Thank you. And may I just address one other thing, a couple other things if it 01:18:52
would be. 01:18:56
Helpful in your deliberations. 01:19:00
Just a couple of things that came up in public comment that that. 01:19:02
With regard to noise, just want you all to know that Miss Miss Kenster will be employing a sound engineer. 01:19:06
All right, before every performance. 01:19:13
And we'll take readings. 01:19:16
That engineer will take readings to make sure to ensure that does not exceed the decibel limit pursuant to the code. 01:19:18
I want to give reassurance to that also that was stated that this was this application was first applied to as retail. That's not 01:19:24
correct. It the the problem was it was applied. It was applied to as a restaurant and then changed to a pub. 01:19:30
That was the only facial problem there was, and it's been remedied, remedied as I've stated. 01:19:36
Umm. 01:19:42
With regard to notification, ABC does not have a requirement. 01:19:43
To notify. 01:19:47
Establishments such as an Airbnb, such as the transient type of hotel, things like that, only residential facilities or tenancies 01:19:49
that's that are fixed. 01:19:54
Not Airbnbs and or anything of the like. So I just want to make sure that the Commission was aware of that before your 01:19:59
deliberations and those were pretty much everything that I had with regard to trying to. 01:20:04
Answer some of the questions that both you may have and and people online and here may have. 01:20:10
Thank, thank you very much and. 01:20:14
Well, he had a vice chair. Well, I didn't have another question. 01:20:18
I'm very confused. 01:20:25
And I'm hoping that we can sort of settle this. 01:20:27
I am totally in favor of what she wants to do. 01:20:31
However, she and I had a discussion. 01:20:36
And it feels like. 01:20:40
The license that she originally applied for, which is a 90 food, is not totally required. 01:20:43
And now she's a pub. 01:20:50
And so I'm just wondering where we are with that, who does not required with regard to the Type 90 license is required by the 01:20:53
municipal code. Therein lays a lot of the confusion. 01:20:58
She will be, she will be conforming to the code with regard to the eating. 01:21:03
Place but my concern. 01:21:08
And I don't know how to. 01:21:12
Have it come together. 01:21:14
Are. 01:21:17
PG municipal code is dated. 01:21:18
We had. 01:21:21
The ABC's be able to put forth. 01:21:22
A-90 license. 01:21:25
Which means she doesn't really have to serve food. But now we're requiring her to do that, and I just don't know. 01:21:27
How to make what we have on the books with what she really wants to do because she was real clear. 01:21:35
When she and I talk, she says. I don't want a restaurant, I just want to be able. 01:21:41
To do with this. 01:21:45
90 states that I can do and that's my dilemma for her. 01:21:47
Not being Privy to that conversation, I really can't speak to it. However, I can't speak to the fact. 01:21:51
That you're correct, it's not the type 90 is not contingent. However the municipal code is. So she's going to be held to that. 01:21:55
That's there is common enforcement that is that you have in the city that can go check. 01:22:00
I can go look and say you're not in compliance, you're at risk of having your permit revoked. 01:22:06
I think what we're doing here, I do have to point out the ABC license. 01:22:12
Is not. 01:22:17
Something that we can we have no. 01:22:18
Control over we have we can require the license we we understand that. I know and we're discussing it I think let's have some 01:22:20
order here so. 01:22:25
So you made your point that what was that again that the point is that the, the type of license is not part of our our zoning 01:22:30
ordinance, it's not part of our code nor is it part of our purview. 01:22:36
What it is is that we do require the the eating establishment for any of our drinking places. 01:22:41
Alright, thank you. It was. 01:22:47
And I'm very clear about that. However, we have a woman. 01:22:49
Who wants to have a business? 01:22:54
She's gonna have to spend more money because she's caught in this sort of catch 22 and that's the part that bothers me the most. 01:22:56
Is how How can we rectify that? I realize we have it. 01:23:03
And the municipal code that she has to have. 01:23:06
A kitchen, but she's been. 01:23:09
You know, maybe she doesn't want to have a kitchen because she's got an ABC License 90 that says she doesn't have to. 01:23:11
And our municipal code is not up to date. 01:23:17
That would be subject to conjecture, yeah. And not before the, not before the Commission right now, right. I can understand. 01:23:21
With this solution. 01:23:28
Whole point that she's done her due diligence as we understand that, we understand that. So Commissioner Sawyer or Commissioner 01:23:30
Davison? 01:23:34
I I mean, I think these are almost two different things where we could we can say that yeah, maybe we should change the municipal 01:23:38
code, yes, to allow for bars and Taverns, but in the meantime approve this to go forward as is and then there could be a change in 01:23:43
the future where she wouldn't need to serve it but not have it. 01:23:48
An issue at this point. 01:23:54
And and that was where my concern was, because I just feel that we're forcing her into. 01:23:56
A square box when she's a circle. 01:24:03
Well, like I said, Miss Miss Kester has every every intention to conform to the code, and you have all the power here to resend it 01:24:08
if she's not. 01:24:11
So. 01:24:15
There's really no downside here for the for the Commission. Understand that and I appreciate your comments. 01:24:16
I I have a question are there other questions? If not, I have a couple questions about this because I think this. 01:24:21
The confusion here is a type 90 license versus our code. 01:24:27
Bona fide evening establishment, Whether that's in or out, bonafide eating establishment has been typically associated with a Type 01:24:33
41 or 47 ABC licence. 01:24:38
So the question I have is. 01:24:43
Could a 90 license be considered? 01:24:45
A bona fide eating place. There's nothing in the language in in that I I didn't think so, but I just wanted to ask. States that 01:24:48
it's a requirement. 01:24:52
The requirement, a lot of the confusion as I stated is coming from that it's a a separate and apart. 01:24:56
Condition of the municipal code. 01:25:01
It doesn't have to do with ABC. 01:25:04
And. 01:25:06
That's that's where a lot of confusion really is coming from. And. 01:25:06
I hope I'm doing my best tonight to try to alleviate some of that. 01:25:10
It is not required for her ABC permit or license. It is required, however, to do business. 01:25:12
As she as she's looking to do. 01:25:19
Add Pop and his our our. 01:25:21
Municipal code though, as I read it, is very clear it says that. 01:25:23
The applicant will get an ABC license. 01:25:27
As a bona fide eating establishment. 01:25:30
That's not correct. That's not correct. Well then let's under that. 01:25:33
Because maybe you know, maybe that maybe That's the source of confusion here. 01:25:38
I think it's in 2364290 is that? 01:25:44
Does that sound correct, Mr. Campbell or that is correct, that's the correct section and. 01:25:48
If, if and we could also if you would like to to. 01:25:54
To check with the the assistant city attorney. 01:25:57
Before that, please the definition. 01:26:01
Is in the municipal code for what it states in the ABC. 01:26:04
OK, that's for definition uses only. 01:26:09
For what she can and cannot do. 01:26:11
This specific type 90 licensure does not require that, however the city code does. 01:26:14
See the the rub here it seems to me. 01:26:20
You know, to cut to the quake. 01:26:22
Is that she is. 01:26:24
Legitimately. 01:26:26
And I support this project, by the way, and I want to see her succeed, but we're trying to find a solution here. 01:26:27
And and there's confusion about it. 01:26:33
She's applied for an A Type 90 license. 01:26:37
My understanding and you can correct me if I'm incorrect. 01:26:39
My understanding is the state cannot. 01:26:43
Grant her that license. Until we have straightened this out here, that that part is correct, we cannot start the investigation as 01:26:45
I stated in my in my state that initially, initially until this is resolved. OK, so she's applied for a type 90 license that does 01:26:51
not include a food service. 01:26:56
But our our code appears to. 01:27:02
Require a bona fide food service, as Miss Dahmer pointed out. 01:27:05
So how did the two meet? 01:27:10
It it looks to me like. 01:27:12
She's agreed to the. 01:27:14
And and and you said she agreed to the conditions and and the initial use permit. It looks to me like she. 01:27:16
Agree to conditions that are defined by a type. 01:27:22
41 or 40 civil license. 01:27:26
That define or have in it. 01:27:28
Bona fide food service. 01:27:30
I mean that's that's really the crux of this, right. However is as staff had stated, as Mr. Campbell stated this, this Commission 01:27:33
design of authority. 01:27:36
To tell miss. 01:27:40
Miss Kester, what center license she can have. 01:27:42
No, we don't. We don't. But we can insist. 01:27:45
That she have, you know, just add the words if. 01:27:48
Just add the words on to the end of of of. 01:27:51
Of condition three that Miss Dahmer pointed out. And we'd be done. But the reality is, I don't think that gets her anywhere. 01:27:54
So maybe we're just going into this too deep, but but I, I, I, I wanna see your succeed. I wanna see your proceed ahead. 01:28:01
If she's ends up with a license that she can't use or doesn't make any sense for, well, I don't know what to say. 01:28:08
The license, if I may, since this is really a a code interpretation issue. 01:28:15
Is that OK? 01:28:21
Please. 01:28:22
So. 01:28:23
You know the I I fully understand the confusion the the wording in the code. It's a bit unfortunate that it uses such similar 01:28:25
language to the ABC licensing because it makes it a little bit muddy. 01:28:30
However. 01:28:36
What the code says is that the business shall comply with the ABC license requirements for a bona fide public eating place. 01:28:38
It doesn't say. 01:28:46
You have to obtain an ABC license for a bona fide public eating place. 01:28:47
So. 01:28:53
The the difference here is that she can she can get any type of ABC license that ABC. 01:28:54
Feels. 01:29:02
Is appropriate to issue. 01:29:02
To to her as an applicant. 01:29:04
On the City side, regardless of what kind of ABC license she obtains, we just verify. 01:29:07
That a bona fide public eating place is being operated. 01:29:14
On the premises, regardless of whether it is required by an ABC license or not. 01:29:18
So, so that that is the distinction there. 01:29:24
Umm. 01:29:27
And in the conditions of approval, it's actually clarified in my view. 01:29:28
From how the the code? 01:29:33
Is worded. 01:29:36
By saying the applicant must obtain an ABC license in condition 3. 01:29:38
Then condition four is the applicant must maintain a bona fide eating place. 01:29:43
So who Who in in the city determines whether it's compliant as a bona fide? 01:29:50
Eating place. 01:29:57
Well, I would certainly staff chime in. You would know processes a little bit better than me, but. 01:29:58
You know you're still at the high level. You're getting a use permit at this point. 01:30:04
Additional permits for tenant improvements and things like that will have to come through. They'll verify and then at some point a 01:30:09
certificate of occupancy will have to be issued. And at that point you would definitely verify that the facilities are there for a 01:30:15
bona fide public eating place and then once the business becomes operational. 01:30:20
Code enforcement could come in if they're not actually operating in that manner and. 01:30:26
Issue a citation. Or we could institute revocation proceedings if you know they have the facilities but they're not using them and 01:30:33
so therefore they're not maintaining the bona fide public eating place. 01:30:38
And who determines for the state? Well, that's a state issue. The state as I understand it. 01:30:44
Comes into an A. 01:30:51
And does a a license survey to determine whether or not there's compliance with the specific license they're asking for. So. 01:30:53
Again, there's a catch 22 there they're only gonna look at. 01:31:00
If they only look come in and look at the Type 90 license, they're only going to look at the the items that apply to their. That 01:31:04
has nothing to do in the case of 90 with a bona fide food place. So that's really a city. 01:31:09
Issue only. 01:31:15
That's what it is, correct. 01:31:17
So. 01:31:20
We're probably parsing words here. 01:31:21
As you said initially, which I think is probably the most operative thing that I've heard so far about any of this. 01:31:23
That one statement you made? 01:31:30
About. 01:31:32
You'd have to repeat it for me. I I don't think I can properly repeat it, but it's it's intent versus actual or something like 01:31:33
that. 01:31:37
Seems to be the crux of this thing. 01:31:42
Yeah, I don't remember my specific words unfortunately, but yes, that that's a sort of an accurate some summary this the wording 01:31:45
is unfortunately, I think a little too similar to the ABC licensing wording. It would be clearer if we use some different 01:31:52
terminology and I think that's what muddies the waters, but when you really do a close reading. 01:31:58
Of the the code language I'm. 01:32:06
Confident that my interpretation I just gave to all of you is is the correct one. 01:32:09
So as as we stand right now then it sounds like. 01:32:15
The applicant will operate would operate this thing with the Type 90 license. 01:32:19
And then? 01:32:24
Operate with a. 01:32:26
Type 41 or type 47 type license, even though it's not issued by ABC but those those are the conditions placed on. 01:32:30
This. 01:32:38
By the city on the on the operation of that, by the city, what it sounds like. 01:32:39
So even though she doesn't have an ABC license to operate a food service in conjunction with. 01:32:44
The type 90 license? She still would have to comply with that portion of the Pacific Rd. 01:32:52
Code that talked about that. The bona fide eating place. That's what it sounds like to me. 01:32:57
Would you agree with that? 01:33:03
Yes. 01:33:05
Yes, that's my interpretation and if you think about it. 01:33:06
In In the flip, ABC may not be requiring A bona fide public eating place with the Type 90 license, but it doesn't prohibit it 01:33:10
either, no. 01:33:14
1. 01:33:19
Yeah. 01:33:20
So she's free to offer a bona fide public eating place and association with the Type 90 license, but per ABC, and it's the city 01:33:21
that is requiring it. 01:33:25
Right so so this this state does not require. 01:33:30
As as in a licensed 90A bona fide food. 01:33:34
Service, but it it would appear that we are. This really what it amounts to. But then there was a comment made in. 01:33:39
Mr. Campbell's one of his. His, his. 01:33:45
Staff reports about. 01:33:49
It's not the role of the. 01:33:51
City to enforce state codes. This is wouldn't be enforcing the state code, it's our code. 01:33:54
Correct. 01:34:00
Will be specifically enforcing municipal code section 2364290 D 2. 01:34:03
OK. 01:34:09
Vice Chair Murphy pointed out the confusion. 01:34:10
But. 01:34:14
But the license isn't in our purview. All we ask is that you receive a license. Period. Correct. And and again I understand the 01:34:15
confusion, but. 01:34:18
You know, we don't care what kind of license she gets, I think. And we want her to have a. 01:34:23
This eating place because our code requires it. 01:34:29
And that that's sort of the end of it and. 01:34:31
Yes, we think we see Con. 01:34:34
Contradictions between the kind of license she may get and our code but. 01:34:36
But that's. 01:34:42
That's the way it is, what it is. Yeah. So that's maybe the. 01:34:43
The best way for me to kind of put this the only way the ABC sort of got dragged into this confusion. 01:34:47
Is because that's the ABC's definition has been adopted into the municipal code. Exactly, exactly and. 01:34:51
The the like stated before, code enforcement isn't is responsible or if there's somebody that's in there and says this is not 01:34:58
being run. 01:35:01
Pursuant to this code section. 01:35:04
Then. 01:35:06
Then. 01:35:07
Code enforcement can investigate. 01:35:08
Staff are standing, right. So I guess that's that's really wanted to say, is that right? 01:35:10
Commissioner Luzinski. 01:35:17
I'd like to make a motion that the Planning Commission affirmed the Zoning Administration decision to issue out of Authorized Use 01:35:19
Permit. 01:35:22
Based on the findings of fact. 01:35:26
And 2nd. 01:35:28
OK, so Commissioner Dudzinski made a motion to uphold the. 01:35:29
Zoning administrators. 01:35:35
Decision on. 01:35:37
The application and that was seconded by Vice Chair Murphy and you. 01:35:39
Commissioner Davidson. 01:35:44
Commissioner Davidson, did you have a comment or were you just trying? Did he beat you to the quick, or did I recognize him 01:35:46
before? I should have recognized you, OK? 01:35:50
So. 01:35:55
There we are. We have a motion on the floor and a second, and so is there any. 01:35:56
Discussion about this. 01:36:01
Further discussion about this. 01:36:03
I think we've probably. 01:36:05
Nitpicked this to death. 01:36:08
We. 01:36:11
Of course, down the line. 01:36:12
I mean if you, if you force me into a comment, I am concerned, I am concerned, I am concerned that it's taking so long to open up 01:36:14
a business. 01:36:18
I agree. 01:36:23
So. 01:36:28
Mr. Sidor, would you call the roll? If there's no further discussion, then I'll call the question. And those in favor say aye, 01:36:31
those opposed say nay. 01:36:34
And Mr. Sidor, can you call the roll, please? 01:36:38
Yes, Chair. Little, before I call roll, just to clarify, the second was by Commissioner Murphy. 01:36:40
Vice Chair Murphy, thank you. 01:36:46
Commissioner Nuzenski. 01:36:51
Aye. 01:36:52
Vice Chair Murphy. 01:36:54
Aye. 01:36:55
Commissioner Davison. 01:36:57
Aye. 01:36:58
Commissioner Sawyer. 01:37:00
Aye. 01:37:02
And sure, Lily. 01:37:03
Chair. The motion is adopted by a vote of five to zero, with two commissioners absent. 01:37:05
OK, so the the. 01:37:12
Vice Chair Murphy. 01:37:15
Mr. Campbell, Did the applicant have to pay a fee for this hearing? 01:37:17
I know they did not. Great. Thank you. 01:37:23
The ways we would say no. 01:37:26
So to to to announce the result then. 01:37:29
From Mr. Sidor the motion passed to approve the project or uphold the project. 01:37:33
By a vote of of Five Eyes, no nays. 01:37:38
And so that concludes this public hearing and good luck to the applicant and we wish her well and success in her business. 01:37:41
So we're ready to move on then to. 01:37:54
The next item on our agenda? 01:37:59
What? 01:38:01
Bus. 01:38:02
Let's see here. 01:38:11
Would be item 8B. 01:38:15
This is on the agenda as the boards and Commission joint working group. 01:38:20
And Mr. What's the staff for this item? I thought I saw Chief Mandalone's name on the Zoom, but maybe that was my imagination. I 01:38:26
don't know. She is on, Chief. Chief Malone is on. 01:38:32
So. 01:38:38
I am here, Sir. It's not your imagination. 01:38:39
Well, good. Thank you for for for waiting so. 01:38:42
We'll begin. Is you have an agenda report or would that be her or would that be you, Mr. Campbell? 01:38:48
OK. 01:38:55
It'll be me, Sir. 01:38:56
Yeah. So good evening, commissioners, members of the public and staff. 01:38:58
Thank you for the opportunity to present this evening. 01:39:02
I was asked to attend tonight's Planning Commission meeting to provide information and answer questions in regard to proposed 01:39:05
joint working group. 01:39:09
Apologies that I can't be there in person. 01:39:14
So the purpose of the group is to improve communication amongst the boards and commissions to create better collaboration on 01:39:17
projects and programs for the community. 01:39:22
So a brief summary of the working group is on a voluntary basis. 01:39:27
One member from each board and Commission, if they so choose to participate. 01:39:31
We'll meet at a cadence of the groups choosing to share information on projects and programs. 01:39:36
That are being discussed on each member's respective boards. 01:39:42
That member would return to their respective boards and provide an update on areas that would directly reflect or impact. 01:39:47
Their specific board. 01:39:54
This is similar to how our Council member liaisons come and provide an update as to as to the last council meetings or other 01:39:56
meetings that they attended. 01:39:59
In the city. 01:40:03
And this will not involve staff or council time. I will facilitate the first meeting of this group to help the group establish a 01:40:04
meeting cadence. 01:40:09
And provide parameters for the meetings. 01:40:13
I'd like to say that. 01:40:16
This is an information sharing only group. 01:40:19
No discussions or suggestions should be made on any matters. 01:40:22
If a person has a suggestion or a comment on a specific topic. 01:40:26
They should attend that. 01:40:31
The next meeting of that specific board and Commission and share their individual comments. 01:40:33
So as I said earlier, members would be able to go back to their respective boards and provide. 01:40:39
As a staff liaison report, unless there's substantial substantive discussion or action that's required. 01:40:44
Then the item should be properly agendized for that specific commissioner board for further discussion. 01:40:51
And lastly, I'll say that this has been vetted through the city attorney. 01:40:57
And determined not to be a Brown Act violation because only one member from each border Commission would participate. 01:41:01
And I would be happy to answer any questions that anyone has. 01:41:08
The the last thing I'll say is that. 01:41:12
There are a few other boards and commissions that I still need to attend or are still waiting on a liaison for, so this probably 01:41:15
won't. 01:41:20
Start until the beginning of the new year. 01:41:25
OK. 01:41:30
Ohh. 01:41:32
Discretion, the chair. Without objection, I will defer questions until we have. 01:41:34
Discussion of the Commission. And so I at that point then I would go to public comment. 01:41:39
Is there any public comment on this, Mr. Sidor? Has anybody raised their hand? There's no one in the audience, so it has to be on 01:41:45
Zoom. 01:41:49
No attendees have their hands raised alright. 01:41:53
Well then we will open and close public comment. 01:41:57
Now that didn't take long. 01:42:02
So now we. 01:42:04
Should have discussion by the Commission about this. Any questions or comments by any member of the Commission. 01:42:06
Vice Chair Murphy. I guess I have a question for the Chief. 01:42:16
Yes, Sir. 01:42:23
And and that is. 01:42:25
You know, the goal seems to be. 01:42:26
To improve communication among the boards and commissions and create better collaboration on projects and programs for the 01:42:28
community. 01:42:32
Maybe maybe I'm missing something, but we don't. 01:42:37
We don't really have occasion to. 01:42:44
And. 01:42:48
To work with other boards or commissions, you know, sometimes with the with the appeal. 01:42:49
You know things from the HRC or ARB can appeal be appealed to us? 01:42:54
And I think as residents, you know, we're interested in what the other boards and commissions. 01:42:59
You know are are up to but I. 01:43:05
I guess I just don't understand why. 01:43:08
What we would accomplish? 01:43:11
OK. I can give you provide you like an example like let's think about like the parklets. You know, if they're being discussed at 01:43:13
your boarding Commission, it may have something to do with Traffic Safety. 01:43:19
And you know, not everybody can attend all these meetings, so it would just be a vessel for. 01:43:25
Boards and commissions to share what projects they have upcoming, what projects that they're working on so that they can go back 01:43:30
to that. Like say for example, you guys said, yeah, we're gonna be talking about park lists, they can go back to this Traffic 01:43:35
Safety and advise them that. 01:43:40
Planning Commission has an agenda item on here if you want to participate in that meeting or if there's some feedback that we'd 01:43:46
like to share, maybe we wanna talk about. 01:43:50
Traffic Safety and visibility issues with parklets, things like that. 01:43:55
Thank you. 01:44:03
You're welcome. 01:44:04
Davidson. 01:44:06
Yeah. I think off the back of that, I I think maybe the opposite where it seems like there's a lot of room for collaboration 01:44:08
because there are so many projects that overlap. 01:44:12
And I think for me. 01:44:16
I would be interested to know if discussion was possible, or if the reason that's not happening is because it is. 01:44:19
In violation of the Brown Act just because if there's reporting out reporting out, it doesn't necessarily say that like we're like 01:44:24
Ohh park lists are coming up from the Planning Commission. Maybe you guys could participate on. 01:44:29
Guidance for. 01:44:35
You know traffic and safety, so our discussions of possibility or that's just out of the out of the picture. 01:44:36
Well, if I can elaborate a little bit on that, I I mean you can obviously have some type of brief conversation and discussion 01:44:43
about it. It's just. 01:44:47
To go into like, you know, hey, how about this recommendation for that project or things like that. That would be something that 01:44:51
you'd want to share at public comment as opposed to with this specific one only member of the board. 01:44:58
I know Miss Vega is is here. I don't know if she's still here. 01:45:05
Maybe she can provide a little bit more on that, on the legal ease of that. 01:45:09
This. Vega, are you there? There you are. I'm still here. Yes, so I. 01:45:15
I'm relatively new in this position and so I think this advice was given before, you know I was involved, so I I not personally 01:45:21
familiar with the facts of this working group. 01:45:26
So it's something we could certainly, I could certainly look into, but I don't feel comfortable rendering an opinion without 01:45:32
consulting with the attorney that. 01:45:36
Chief Malone. 01:45:40
Um, I've discussed this with previously. 01:45:42
Sorry, I'm sorry to put you on the spot, miss. 01:45:46
Transition, it's OK, sure. I did speak with. 01:45:49