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It is 6:01 PM minute late. I am Stephen Lilly and I will call to order this October 19th, 2023 Special meeting. | 00:00:04 | |
Of the Pacific Grove Planning Commission. | 00:00:13 | |
Mr. Campbell, will you please call the roll? | 00:00:15 | |
Is would that be you tonight or? | 00:00:19 | |
Mr. Sidor. | 00:00:21 | |
Chair Lily under the other this evening. | 00:00:23 | |
So, Commissioner Davison. | 00:00:25 | |
Commissioner Murphy. | 00:00:30 | |
Here. | 00:00:33 | |
Commissioner Nuzenski, Commissioner Sawyer here and Chair Lily. | 00:00:33 | |
Here. | 00:00:38 | |
Chair Lily, We have a quorum for this evening's meeting, with five commissioners present and two commissioners absent. | 00:00:40 | |
Commissioners Frederickson and Kubica. | 00:00:48 | |
OK is, Mr. Sedor said. We have. | 00:00:51 | |
5 Commissioners present. To my left is Vice Chair Murphy, to my right or Commissioner Sawyer, Davison and Izinski. | 00:00:54 | |
Commissioners could be cut and Frederickson have excused absences. Nevertheless, we have a quorum. | 00:01:01 | |
The meeting tonight is being conducted under revised rules mandated in Assembly Bill 2449. | 00:01:08 | |
This is a hybrid format with our meeting in chambers and virtually or with zoom participation. | 00:01:13 | |
The women are ID and toll free telephone numbers are on the agenda face sheet. | 00:01:19 | |
When the host opens the agenda for public comment, those wishing to speak. | 00:01:24 | |
Via Zoom Should press Star 9 to raise your hand and then Star 6. | 00:01:28 | |
To unmute when recognize. | 00:01:33 | |
Before we continue, let me remind. | 00:01:37 | |
All of you, including myself, that we must turn on our microphones and speak directly into them so that our equipment can properly | 00:01:39 | |
record us, because we've had a couple of problems in the past. | 00:01:44 | |
We now come to our agenda. Does anybody have any changes to the agenda? | 00:01:50 | |
If not, may I have a motion to approve the agenda? | 00:01:57 | |
Commissioner. | 00:02:03 | |
Sawyer. | 00:02:04 | |
I make a motion to approve the agenda as noted. | 00:02:05 | |
All right. Is there a second to the motion? I'll second the motion. So, Commissioner. | 00:02:09 | |
Sir, you're moved. Approval of the agenda is submitted and that was seconded by Vice Chair Murphy. | 00:02:15 | |
Is there? | 00:02:20 | |
Umm. | 00:02:21 | |
Any. | 00:02:22 | |
Further discussion about this. | 00:02:23 | |
Or should then, Mr. Sidor, would you please call the roll? | 00:02:25 | |
Commissioner Sawyer. | 00:02:29 | |
Aye. | 00:02:31 | |
Vice Chair Murphy. | 00:02:33 | |
Aye. | 00:02:34 | |
Commissioner Musinski. | 00:02:36 | |
Aye. | 00:02:38 | |
Commissioner Davison. | 00:02:39 | |
Aye. | 00:02:40 | |
And Cheryl Lilly. | 00:02:41 | |
Aye. | 00:02:43 | |
Share The motion is adopted by a vote of. | 00:02:44 | |
5 to 0. | 00:02:48 | |
Good with you absent. | 00:02:49 | |
So we now come to Commission and staff staff announcements #3 on our agenda. | 00:02:53 | |
Does any Member of the Commission have an announcement? | 00:03:00 | |
Is your Sawyer. | 00:03:07 | |
I just have a couple of questions. And it's mainly just to sort of see where we are. I am wondering where are we with the Title 23 | 00:03:09 | |
corrections? Has this been sent to Legal and are we going to see it any time soon? | 00:03:17 | |
When will we be seeing the Tribal Resources and Tribal Monitoring Document? | 00:03:26 | |
Is there an update on the draft document from Integral Consulting for Coastal Hazards section of the Local Coastal Plan? | 00:03:33 | |
The last report from Mr. Sidor stated that data collection and modeling was being done. | 00:03:42 | |
I'm just wondering when that might come. | 00:03:48 | |
Just to us to see. | 00:03:50 | |
I believe also there's been a problem with Mr. Robert Davison. | 00:03:53 | |
Who keeps getting? | 00:03:58 | |
Emails for our Mr. Davidson and I'm wondering if the CD could look at their listing to ensure that they have the correct spelling. | 00:04:01 | |
So this poor gentleman. | 00:04:06 | |
Quits getting all of this city. | 00:04:13 | |
Mail. | 00:04:15 | |
And I'm wondering when are we going to see the meeting and policy procedure updates that we have requested to look at for the | 00:04:17 | |
Planning Commission? | 00:04:21 | |
And I was also wondering, we usually have a work plan update included in our. | 00:04:26 | |
Agenda and I did not see it here this time and I was wondering why that was. Thank you. | 00:04:33 | |
OK. Are there any other announcements from members of the Planning Commission? | 00:04:41 | |
If not, I have a couple of announcements and I will also answer a couple of missus or of Commissioner Sawyers. | 00:04:47 | |
Questions. Because they probably lie with me. | 00:04:55 | |
I'll begin with the work plan. Usually I update the work plan and put it in the package. I didn't this month because. | 00:04:58 | |
We had the housing element and there just wasn't the time, so that's no reflection on anything the staff didn't do, they. | 00:05:05 | |
They did what they were supposed to do. That's my feeling and I will have it in next. | 00:05:11 | |
Months agenda, which I think our meeting is on November 9th if I'm not mistaken. So that's the situation with the work plan. | 00:05:16 | |
But any case last just a report, a couple of things I have Last night the City Council approved a contract with Mr. Lou Bauman to | 00:05:26 | |
be Interim Community Development Director. | 00:05:30 | |
Previously, he was with at Monterey County for 20 years. | 00:05:35 | |
And last served as Chief Administrative Officer. I'm not sure of his start date, but that's what I understand is the situation. | 00:05:38 | |
Last night I appeared at the City Council meeting and urged they support revisions to the draft housing element. | 00:05:48 | |
Mr. Sidor will have more details about that. | 00:05:57 | |
During the that portion of the agenda that deals with the housing element. | 00:06:00 | |
But. | 00:06:05 | |
As I said. | 00:06:06 | |
Last night I attended that City Council meeting to present our recommendations. | 00:06:07 | |
On that draft housing element. | 00:06:12 | |
During the public comment. | 00:06:14 | |
Period. | 00:06:16 | |
On Zoom, several individuals used racial slurs and epithets to disrupt the meeting. | 00:06:17 | |
Appropriately mere peak admonish them to stop and City Attorney Peric advised, and they were disrupting a public meeting. | 00:06:23 | |
They refused to cooperate and were subsequently muted. | 00:06:30 | |
Let me state very clearly there is no place for this kind of disruptive conduct in our community meetings. | 00:06:34 | |
This type of hate speech that disrupts our meetings will not be tolerated. | 00:06:40 | |
We need and welcome public comment at our meetings, members of the community. | 00:06:45 | |
Exercise their right to address government councils, committees. | 00:06:49 | |
And agencies. | 00:06:52 | |
And do so with many thoughtful, incisive comments. | 00:06:53 | |
That is transparency, a hallmark of our system of government. | 00:06:57 | |
As chair? I asked speakers. | 00:07:00 | |
To identify themselves and their address, although they. | 00:07:02 | |
Don't have to, according to the legal counsel. | 00:07:05 | |
Further, I will enforce our rules for time limits on comments and maintain order. | 00:07:08 | |
Thank you for your patience and let me address this. I think it needed to be said after. | 00:07:13 | |
The shock of hearing what we heard last night from. | 00:07:17 | |
A number of individuals who. | 00:07:21 | |
Have engaged in this kind of conduct all over California in the last few weeks. | 00:07:23 | |
Including shutting down the Monterey City Council meeting recently so or a meeting of that council recently. So just wanted to | 00:07:28 | |
make those comments. | 00:07:33 | |
We'll move on. | 00:07:38 | |
Umm. | 00:07:41 | |
As far as the. | 00:07:42 | |
Pardon. | 00:07:45 | |
Ohh. | 00:07:47 | |
Are there any staff announcements? Mr. Campbell, do you have any announcements? | 00:07:51 | |
Just address the Title 23 updates and whether or not that has gone into legal. It hasn't gone to legal fully yet. Joe Sidor and I. | 00:07:55 | |
Need to discuss? | 00:08:05 | |
A direction for what? What legal's going to do and Joe has been neck deep in the housing element. So trying to get a meeting with | 00:08:08 | |
him to do that has been difficult and we do plan on doing that next week. And as soon as that meeting is ready we have the | 00:08:14 | |
guidance to for for legal, we will be handing that off. | 00:08:20 | |
Chair. | 00:08:31 | |
Regarding the Cultural Resources Monitoring Protocol. | 00:08:33 | |
Umm. | 00:08:37 | |
That item. | 00:08:41 | |
Has. | 00:08:43 | |
Well, there's there's a need to. | 00:08:46 | |
Amend the contract. | 00:08:48 | |
To add more to to the budget for that contract in order to. | 00:08:50 | |
Have the consultant available for public meetings. | 00:08:54 | |
And so that's something that the public works director is. | 00:09:00 | |
In the process of working on right now and. | 00:09:06 | |
So that. | 00:09:09 | |
Protocol will come back to the Planning Commission at a future date, still to be determined. | 00:09:11 | |
For the coastal hazards. | 00:09:17 | |
I will be following up next week with the consultant to find out. | 00:09:19 | |
Where they're at with the modeling and when they anticipate submitting. | 00:09:24 | |
A draft to staff. | 00:09:31 | |
And regarding the. | 00:09:34 | |
Issue with Mr. Robert Davison receiving. | 00:09:38 | |
Emails intended for Ross Davidson. | 00:09:43 | |
On the Planning Commission. | 00:09:48 | |
That issue was addressed by IT several weeks ago when this first issue when this issue first came up. | 00:09:50 | |
And was identified the the addresses are correct in the cities e-mail groups. | 00:09:58 | |
So. | 00:10:05 | |
It it may be a situation I I don't know for certain, but it may be a situation where someone has. | 00:10:07 | |
A cashed e-mail address group. | 00:10:14 | |
That they're using that has an incorrect e-mail address, so I would just ask. | 00:10:18 | |
The planning Commissioners and. | 00:10:23 | |
Members of the public, if you're using an old cashed e-mail group address list to please make sure that. | 00:10:26 | |
Is updated. | 00:10:35 | |
And that's all. | 00:10:38 | |
Thank you. | 00:10:39 | |
Thank you. | 00:10:40 | |
Add one thing to Mr. or ask Mr. Sidor a question then. | 00:10:42 | |
For the tribal monitoring protocol. | 00:10:48 | |
Will that? | 00:10:52 | |
Document be superseded The one we have now be superseded by something else or. | 00:10:54 | |
I don't quite understand. I I don't have any more information at this time, I'm sorry. | 00:11:00 | |
Let me also say, in response to Commissioner Sawyer's comment about where that was, I bear some responsibility for that not being | 00:11:06 | |
on the agenda this evening because. | 00:11:10 | |
There was quite a few bit of of discussion at the last. | 00:11:15 | |
Our September meeting about. | 00:11:19 | |
Problems with the document and I can understand why staff might want to have Rincon review the situation because I found it. | 00:11:21 | |
Very confusing to read over the weekend and there's there's some redundancies and things I frankly don't understand. So we'll | 00:11:28 | |
probably have to meet offline to go over this. So I appreciate your. | 00:11:33 | |
You're addressing that issue. | 00:11:39 | |
So if there's no more other staff announcements, then I will go to legal counsel announcements I trust that we have. | 00:11:43 | |
Erica Vega, our assistant City Attorney with us on Zuma. Is she here or there? She is. | 00:11:50 | |
Welcome. | 00:11:56 | |
Thank you. I don't have any announcements for you this evening. | 00:11:57 | |
OK, good. Well, I'm glad you're here. | 00:12:00 | |
So now we come to. | 00:12:03 | |
Council Member Coletti, do you have any announcements from the City Council? | 00:12:05 | |
Yeah, Good evening, Chair and members of the Commission. | 00:12:10 | |
Council did act on the count on the housing element last night and. | 00:12:13 | |
On a four three vote sent it to HCD, essentially. | 00:12:19 | |
It's pretty much the same. | 00:12:24 | |
Recommendations that the Planning Commission made essentially to eliminate home key. | 00:12:28 | |
Language as well as site. | 00:12:33 | |
At the the Noah site, but we also. | 00:12:36 | |
Added. | 00:12:39 | |
Bringing based on staff recommendation. | 00:12:41 | |
We added. | 00:12:44 | |
The removal of the Community Center site. | 00:12:46 | |
And we will include. | 00:12:50 | |
Or staff will be using the 50 or so comments, edits that the Planning Commission worked up when they. | 00:12:52 | |
Or. | 00:13:00 | |
Reviewing the document. | 00:13:01 | |
Other than that, council really didn't develop any policy on their own, so. | 00:13:03 | |
The document is headed to 8 CD and we'll see where it goes from here. Have a good meeting. | 00:13:09 | |
Thank you. | 00:13:15 | |
We now come to item five, general public comment. | 00:13:17 | |
This must deal with matters subject to the jurisdiction of the City and the Planning Commission, but are not on the agenda this | 00:13:20 | |
evening. | 00:13:23 | |
This is an appropriate time to comment on items in the consent agenda. | 00:13:27 | |
But only if the speaker does not wish to have the item pulled. | 00:13:31 | |
Comments from the public will be limited to 3 minutes per speaker and will not receive Commission action. | 00:13:34 | |
Comments regarding an item on the agenda will be heard at the time of the Commission's consideration of that item. | 00:13:40 | |
Before we continue, I I would mention that we have received numerous letters and emails. | 00:13:47 | |
They are included in our agenda packet this evening, or at least in part. Others were submitted for after the distribution of the | 00:13:52 | |
agenda packet. | 00:13:56 | |
Our administrative technician, Debbie Gonzalez, keeps a copy of all communications in our. | 00:14:01 | |
To our Commission in a binder, in the, in her, in the Community development office. | 00:14:06 | |
Which is free for inspection by. | 00:14:11 | |
Any member. | 00:14:14 | |
Of the community. | 00:14:15 | |
Our public at large. | 00:14:16 | |
Would anyone like to address the Commission on matters not on the agenda? | 00:14:20 | |
All right. Hearing none, then we'll move on to the consent agenda. | 00:14:27 | |
Charlie. | 00:14:31 | |
We do have two Microsoft right in front of me and I didn't see it. | 00:14:33 | |
Apologize. So this is Lisa Chiani and is that correct? | 00:14:39 | |
Yes, thank you. | 00:14:43 | |
Welcome. | 00:14:44 | |
Thank you. | 00:14:45 | |
And I was a little slow getting my hand up there. I'm sorry. | 00:14:47 | |
I just wanted to. I appreciate hearing. | 00:14:52 | |
Why the archaeological protocol is not on? | 00:14:56 | |
The agenda tonight and. | 00:15:00 | |
And I do hope if they're taking time to. | 00:15:03 | |
To. | 00:15:06 | |
Adjust or revise that that contract. | 00:15:08 | |
That there will be some. | 00:15:11 | |
Um. | 00:15:14 | |
Maybe major work done in making that a a? | 00:15:16 | |
More user friendly. | 00:15:22 | |
And straightforward. | 00:15:25 | |
And accurate. | 00:15:27 | |
A document. | 00:15:30 | |
But I guess we'll see. All right. Thank you. | 00:15:31 | |
Thank you. | 00:15:36 | |
Is there anyone else? | 00:15:40 | |
Chair No other attendees have their hand raised. | 00:15:44 | |
All right. Well, thank you. | 00:15:47 | |
Now we can go to the consent agenda. | 00:15:49 | |
Which deals with routine and uncontroversial non controversial items and may include actions on. | 00:15:52 | |
Resolutions, ordinances are up, other public hearings for which testimony is not anticipated. We only have one item this evening | 00:15:58 | |
on the consent agenda and that is the Planning Commission minutes for eight August 10/20/23. | 00:16:04 | |
As listed in the agenda item 7A. | 00:16:11 | |
Reports requiring action. | 00:16:15 | |
Would any Commissioner like to remove this item? | 00:16:17 | |
From the consent agenda. | 00:16:20 | |
Commissioner Sawyer. | 00:16:22 | |
I would like to move to remove that from the consent agenda there are. | 00:16:25 | |
A number of Corrections that need to be made. Thank you. Can we take care of those this evening as as an agenda item later on? | 00:16:31 | |
Absolutely. All right, We'll do that because I want them approved. | 00:16:36 | |
Therefore, since that's the only item on the consent agenda, there's no need to have a motion to approve. | 00:16:43 | |
The consent agenda, because there's nothing on it. So we'll move on. | 00:16:48 | |
Well, now we're at the regular agenda. We tonight we have hearings under sections 8A and eight through 8C. | 00:16:53 | |
Before we proceed, let me briefly review our rules. First, we will have an agenda and staff report. | 00:16:59 | |
In the. | 00:17:06 | |
Applicant. | 00:17:10 | |
Our proponent involved with the. | 00:17:12 | |
Hearing will. | 00:17:15 | |
Or the proposal? | 00:17:16 | |
We'll be given 10 minutes to speak. | 00:17:18 | |
There would be. | 00:17:21 | |
If there is a, and I have to ask Mr. Campbell this, if anybody has asked for time to speak in in opposition to the. | 00:17:23 | |
And you you've indicated, no, it's that OK. I was going to say if that were the case, then there would be brief rebuttal or | 00:17:30 | |
surrebuttal regarding that. I will then open the public hearing for comment. Those wishing to speak will have 3 minutes each. I | 00:17:36 | |
would then close the hearing to further comment from the. | 00:17:42 | |
Public and the Commission. They can ask questions to deliberate and make a decision. | 00:17:49 | |
We should also be aware that findings and conditions are a necessary part of the decision making process. | 00:17:55 | |
Therefore, the Commission at its pleasure. | 00:18:00 | |
May either make a single motion that includes both findings and the decision, or make separate motions for findings and a | 00:18:02 | |
decision, and those findings or decisions would also include, as appropriate, sequel compliance. | 00:18:09 | |
So the first item we have is item 8A. | 00:18:15 | |
Planning Commission call up of AUP which is administrative use permit. | 00:18:18 | |
23-0179 and that would be at 215 Forest Ave. | 00:18:23 | |
Assessor Parcel number 006282026 and so I will now open the public hearing. | 00:18:29 | |
Let me briefly review this situation and then Mr. | 00:18:37 | |
Campbell can give his staff report. | 00:18:42 | |
On July 17th, 2023, then Community Development Director. | 00:18:44 | |
Why it issued an administrative use permit for a pub? | 00:18:49 | |
Food service. | 00:18:52 | |
Music venue at 5215 Forest Ave. which used to be an embroidery or T-shirt shop. | 00:18:54 | |
Miss Lorenzen Dahmer. | 00:19:00 | |
Requested a hearing on the matter which was later held on Monday, August 21st, 2023. | 00:19:02 | |
Subsequently, on August 28th, 2023, Director Wyatt, then Director Wyatt issued an administrative use permit for this project. | 00:19:09 | |
Then on September 14th. | 00:19:16 | |
2023 This Planning Commission voted to call up this matter for further review. | 00:19:19 | |
Reasons for the the call up included. There seemed to be some confusion about what this establishment would be, and so we're here | 00:19:25 | |
this this evening to to get information about that. | 00:19:31 | |
Umm. | 00:19:37 | |
There was also insufficient indication that the project involved the development of proper kitchen facilities is required. | 00:19:39 | |
For a bona fide any place. | 00:19:45 | |
So we called it up. | 00:19:48 | |
So at that point or this point now, Mr. Kendall, Mr. Campbell, can we have your staff? | 00:19:51 | |
Report which I believe came in the package. The general report did. I do have a presentation. Thank you, Chair and members of the | 00:19:56 | |
Commission. | 00:20:01 | |
I will be presenting the call up and this is of the August 21st Zoning administrator hearing decision as you had said, I'm going | 00:20:08 | |
to give you just a little bit of. | 00:20:12 | |
Let me make sure that I am. | 00:20:19 | |
There we go. A little bit of the background here. I won't go too deep into it since. | 00:20:23 | |
Chair Lily mentioned it the on 7/27/2023 the request was filed for the zoning hearing concerning the administrative use permit | 00:20:30 | |
for. | 00:20:35 | |
Wait, 2-3. | 00:20:40 | |
Dash 0179 and on that permit, it said, allowing alcohol sales at 215 Forest Ave. And that's the popping hiss. | 00:20:42 | |
That meeting was scheduled. The hearing was scheduled for 8/21/2023 and the zoning administrator. | 00:20:50 | |
Recognize some discrepancies. | 00:21:00 | |
The between both the notifications that were mailed. | 00:21:03 | |
And the posting and one had said restaurant and one had said pub and that had caused some confusion. | 00:21:07 | |
At that time, the administrator directed staff to clarify the use. | 00:21:15 | |
With the applicant and then issue an updated administrative use permit. | 00:21:20 | |
On the August 28th they updated AUP. | 00:21:27 | |
Allowing the pub use in the commercial downtown. | 00:21:32 | |
Zoning District was issued and posted for a 10 day period to allow the request for public hearing and the permit was considered | 00:21:35 | |
effective on the 11th day. That's nine. | 00:21:39 | |
I believe it's the 8th that might have the wrong day on there, 2023. | 00:21:44 | |
And as you said on the 14th during the general public comment. | 00:21:48 | |
At the regular Planning Commission meeting to request the call at the zoning administrators decision was made. | 00:21:52 | |
And the PC voted to call up that decision. | 00:21:57 | |
At the next available meeting. | 00:22:00 | |
Since it seems that there are some confusions about procedure. | 00:22:03 | |
And and we didn't actually get much direction from why this item is being called up, possibly procedural, possibly something | 00:22:09 | |
having to do. | 00:22:14 | |
With the state ABC license. | 00:22:20 | |
I'm going to run you through. | 00:22:23 | |
The review and administrative use permits and this one particular, but I'm going to be a little general. | 00:22:26 | |
And add some other things in here that might clarify some. | 00:22:31 | |
Some of the the policies and procedures. | 00:22:34 | |
First thing is we received the application. | 00:22:39 | |
And when we receive a. | 00:22:42 | |
An application for an administrative use permit and it's just for the use and this is without development. | 00:22:45 | |
We meet with the applicant to discuss the activities. | 00:22:51 | |
That are. | 00:22:55 | |
To be related to. | 00:22:57 | |
This business in this particular meeting, originally Laurel. | 00:22:59 | |
O'halloran was was the planner. | 00:23:04 | |
And it was found that the original application instead. | 00:23:08 | |
Deli food and alcohol. | 00:23:12 | |
And music venue. And so when a planner gets these things, we look at it and we say. | 00:23:15 | |
OK. | 00:23:21 | |
These don't fit into a box. | 00:23:23 | |
How do we fit these into a box? What do we do? So we we go to our Chapter 23 and see, see what uses actually support these | 00:23:25 | |
activities. We don't have music venue. | 00:23:30 | |
But we have. | 00:23:35 | |
Different uses that allow. | 00:23:36 | |
Alcohol sales. We have uses that allow food service. | 00:23:38 | |
And with those uses. | 00:23:43 | |
Music. | 00:23:46 | |
Is also allowed. | 00:23:47 | |
So we were able to come down with something and they're basically 2. | 00:23:48 | |
To uses that were. | 00:23:52 | |
Compatible with this and one was breastaurant and the other was pub. Unfortunately both. | 00:23:55 | |
Were somehow mixed in on the original permits. | 00:23:59 | |
Once that. | 00:24:07 | |
Compatible uses identified in this particular case the pub use for us and and what ended up being on the application after the | 00:24:08 | |
zoning hearing which we were instructed to. | 00:24:15 | |
To clarify with the applicant. | 00:24:22 | |
We make the applicant aware of any conditions that might be related to that and those conditions are included in the | 00:24:25 | |
administrative use permit and they must be adhered to or the permit may be revoked. So this is actually just a view of of what we | 00:24:30 | |
have here, the. | 00:24:34 | |
And this is a typical planning. | 00:24:39 | |
A permit. | 00:24:42 | |
This one in particular. | 00:24:43 | |
Is the updated version with the the. | 00:24:46 | |
The location, 215 Forest Ave. and an important thing that we look at here is really when we receive these is the zoning district, | 00:24:50 | |
which is commercial. | 00:24:55 | |
Commercial downtown. | 00:25:01 | |
When we look at that and we say what is the purpose of commercial downtown zoning district? | 00:25:04 | |
And we try to, it's actually it's right in the code. So we look to see if that use is going to be compatible with the commercial | 00:25:08 | |
downtown in this case. | 00:25:13 | |
Includes retail, restaurant services, entertainment, upper floor residential and other compatible uses which enhance the vitality | 00:25:18 | |
and character of the city's historic commercial core. | 00:25:23 | |
And we again we say what are the allowed uses? | 00:25:29 | |
And this is actually the graph of the allowed uses that are. | 00:25:32 | |
This this table is actually huge. I just took out a little section and highlighted some that I can describe the way that this | 00:25:38 | |
works. | 00:25:42 | |
You can see up Top Bar, Tavern and Nightclub. | 00:25:46 | |
Is has little dashes. | 00:25:50 | |
Those are not allowed. | 00:25:53 | |
And if you look over at the sea. | 00:25:54 | |
Did you go down that column there? | 00:25:56 | |
And you find what is allowed and and we have a UPUP. | 00:25:59 | |
NP. | 00:26:04 | |
First, addressing PPP is a permitted use. | 00:26:06 | |
There is no planning application required for the permitted use. However, when the business license is applied for, we receive a | 00:26:09 | |
zoning clearance form from our third party licensing agency. | 00:26:15 | |
And that asks us, is this use and allowed use in this particular district and we respond with either yes or no. | 00:26:22 | |
And and then the business license is then? | 00:26:30 | |
Either issued or not. | 00:26:33 | |
An AP is an administrative use permit. | 00:26:36 | |
Those outlined. | 00:26:38 | |
In our zoning. | 00:26:40 | |
Or as you can see, next to under specific use regulations we have 23.64 point 290. | 00:26:43 | |
Those give us the rules. | 00:26:50 | |
For each of those. | 00:26:52 | |
Uses and each of those rules are put onto the permit. | 00:26:54 | |
And I'll get into that a little bit, a little bit further, a difference between the use permit and and administrative use permit. | 00:27:00 | |
I'm going to come back. | 00:27:08 | |
Is that? | 00:27:10 | |
All administrative approvals, they're based on findings. | 00:27:11 | |
In the code. | 00:27:16 | |
They're all based, all the conditions are based. We do not have any discretionary. | 00:27:17 | |
Review of permits, administrative uses. They have to be spelled out. | 00:27:22 | |
And we passed that on. | 00:27:26 | |
In the permit and they are given to the applicant with that permit, that is that is issued. | 00:27:28 | |
So another thing when we meet with our our applicants is any applicant, we try to make sure that whatever they're doing. | 00:27:37 | |
Meets the definition of what they are requesting, and keep in mind this is a use. | 00:27:44 | |
Without development, it's basically asking can I have this use in this location? | 00:27:49 | |
And the answer? | 00:27:55 | |
Is yes. | 00:27:57 | |
But it's yes, with conditions and conditions that are clearly spelled out. | 00:27:58 | |
In the zoning. | 00:28:03 | |
So we would meet with our clients or clients or applicants and say hey, you want to do. | 00:28:05 | |
A bar, Tavern, nightclub. | 00:28:11 | |
Can't do it. You're out. | 00:28:13 | |
You want a restaurant. You have to meet these definitions, and that's only part of it. | 00:28:14 | |
Definitions are only part of of what they are. Definitions tell us what something is, and there are some requirements and | 00:28:18 | |
definitions, but also. | 00:28:22 | |
We have our conditions of use that have further requirements. | 00:28:26 | |
We have findings of fact that we have to meet again. These findings are. | 00:28:32 | |
Directly. | 00:28:37 | |
From the zoning code in this case. | 00:28:39 | |
Chapter 23.70 point 030 under Staff Approvals. | 00:28:45 | |
E is the findings under that and one through 5 are additional use. | 00:28:51 | |
Permits or, sorry, not addition, not use permits, but administrative use permit findings that we're required to find on top of | 00:28:55 | |
that. | 00:28:58 | |
There is also a section that takes us to the Planning Commission findings that we have to meet. | 00:29:02 | |
Those findings as well and those findings are placed. | 00:29:07 | |
This is a cut out of the actual permit. | 00:29:11 | |
For. | 00:29:14 | |
Pop and hiss. | 00:29:15 | |
We placed those findings. | 00:29:16 | |
On the permit. | 00:29:18 | |
To to let people know that we do. | 00:29:19 | |
Follow these findings and that we actually have to as administrative staff. | 00:29:22 | |
So. | 00:29:29 | |
Simple question. | 00:29:30 | |
Why do uses require use permits or administrative use permits? | 00:29:32 | |
Conditions. | 00:29:38 | |
That's it. The reason that they the difference between a permitted use. | 00:29:40 | |
Administrative use permit. | 00:29:45 | |
Is that? | 00:29:47 | |
Conditions are applied and they're spelled out in the zoning. | 00:29:48 | |
So. | 00:29:51 | |
That's why you would need and the. The difference between an administrative use permit and use permit is there are some. | 00:29:54 | |
I mean, there does have to be a connection with with. | 00:29:59 | |
With code with use permit is the Planning Commission. | 00:30:02 | |
So in this, what are the conditions of use for a pub? | 00:30:07 | |
And then the brew pub. | 00:30:10 | |
The and this the same minimum requirements. This is in. | 00:30:12 | |
23.64 point 290. | 00:30:17 | |
Which is alcoholic beverages. | 00:30:21 | |
And it lists the minimum requirements for this use and these are. | 00:30:24 | |
That all alcoholic beverages and food services to customers shall be discontinued between the hours of 12:00 AM and 7:00 AM. | 00:30:29 | |
The business shall comply with the ABC license requirements for a bona fide public eating place. | 00:30:36 | |
All foods from the standard menu should be available for purchase during all but the opening and closing hours of alcoholic | 00:30:42 | |
beverage service. | 00:30:45 | |
And this may include different menus for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Meals and amplified and unemployed Music and entertainment | 00:30:49 | |
are allowed indoors. | 00:30:53 | |
And should not generate noise in excess of 70 decibels. | 00:30:57 | |
65 between the hours of 10:00 PM and 12:00 AM. | 00:31:01 | |
At the property line. | 00:31:04 | |
Of any such site amplifying them. And this says the same thing for outdoor music. | 00:31:05 | |
These. | 00:31:11 | |
We sit down with the applicant. | 00:31:12 | |
And we explain. Can you meet these requirements? | 00:31:14 | |
The answer is yes. | 00:31:18 | |
There's nothing that we can do prior to the business starting to say that they cannot. | 00:31:20 | |
They we cannot prove that they wouldn't be able to meet these requirements. | 00:31:25 | |
We have to see it. | 00:31:28 | |
After the business was. | 00:31:30 | |
In place, especially when it comes to music. | 00:31:32 | |
As pertaining to the ABC license requirements for a bonafide public eating place, that is not a. | 00:31:35 | |
Specific. | 00:31:41 | |
Liquor license. | 00:31:42 | |
We do not. | 00:31:44 | |
Mandate the type of license they have. But we do say because in our code it says you have to have an eating establishment. | 00:31:46 | |
With a pub. | 00:31:52 | |
We took the definition. | 00:31:54 | |
For the ABC's. | 00:31:55 | |
Eating place, Bonafide eating place. | 00:31:58 | |
And they have to meet that requirement. | 00:32:00 | |
This is also taken directly from the the. | 00:32:06 | |
Permit that was posted. | 00:32:11 | |
On the 828. | 00:32:13 | |
And they have all of the conditions of approvals listed. | 00:32:16 | |
So what happens once the AP is issued? | 00:32:21 | |
It's posted for 10 days, giving people a chance to request a hearing. It's considered. | 00:32:24 | |
Effective on the 11th day. | 00:32:30 | |
Then the applicant submits plans to the building department. | 00:32:33 | |
And the. | 00:32:37 | |
The. | 00:32:38 | |
Conditions of approval that are required for that use. | 00:32:39 | |
Are required to be. | 00:32:43 | |
Included in those building plans. | 00:32:44 | |
What happens there is that. | 00:32:47 | |
The building department receives the plans. | 00:32:49 | |
They see there are conditions of approval. We actually also notify them to their conditions of approval. It gets sent to us to say | 00:32:52 | |
are they meeting the conditions of approval. | 00:32:57 | |
For this use. | 00:33:02 | |
If they are. | 00:33:03 | |
It goes back to them and they continue with the. | 00:33:04 | |
With issuing their building permits if it does not. | 00:33:07 | |
Then we require them to meet the conditions of approval before they can. | 00:33:09 | |
Even get their building permits, let alone open their business. | 00:33:14 | |
After that, if. | 00:33:22 | |
They're all met. The final check, as I mentioned before, is a business license. | 00:33:24 | |
And we do that through a third party licensing company and what they do is we the applicant applies for a business license and the | 00:33:28 | |
and the third party sends us a zoning verification form and they say hey. | 00:33:34 | |
This this person is applying for a license. Is this allowed in that district? | 00:33:40 | |
And we send it back and say yay or nay. And in this case, if we receive something for that, they have to still go through. It's | 00:33:47 | |
like basically our final check. | 00:33:52 | |
Or we say we don't issue a business license. | 00:33:57 | |
Without knowing. | 00:34:00 | |
Fully well that that that use is is allowed. | 00:34:01 | |
And finally for this, if at any time the conditions of approval are not met, the administrative use permit may be revoked and that | 00:34:07 | |
is again back to the very first thing that is said in 23.6. | 00:34:13 | |
4.290. | 00:34:19 | |
About alcoholic beverage sales and the failure to maintain food service or any other applicable requirements of this section. | 00:34:22 | |
Or failure to comply with any conditions of the use permit or administrative use permit shall be grounds for revocation of the use | 00:34:28 | |
permit. | 00:34:31 | |
Or administrator you've used permit. | 00:34:35 | |
Depending on what authority. | 00:34:37 | |
Issued that permit. | 00:34:40 | |
They are the people who have the opportunity to revoke that license. | 00:34:42 | |
Or that that use use perfect. | 00:34:45 | |
So again, the key takeaways I have from this is in this case, is a public use allowed? | 00:34:50 | |
In the commercial district. | 00:34:56 | |
The answer is yes, with an AUP and applicable conditions of approval. | 00:34:58 | |
I'm also, uh, point out since that. | 00:35:04 | |
Some questions about what this use is. | 00:35:07 | |
Someone had questioned about there's a retail use, by the way. Retail use is one of those permitted uses that do not require. | 00:35:12 | |
Planning permit, so if there's anything. | 00:35:19 | |
Beyond this. | 00:35:22 | |
It it, it's really outside of anybody's purview, so if they want to have a record. | 00:35:23 | |
Store this is a very large space in a part of this there it's a permitted use we will receive. | 00:35:28 | |
That zoning verification from the business licensing. | 00:35:34 | |
A contractor and. | 00:35:38 | |
We'll say. | 00:35:39 | |
Yay or nay on that? | 00:35:41 | |
Does he use requiring ABC license? Yes. But the state is the regulatory authority for the sale and issuance of those licenses. | 00:35:44 | |
Does the city require a specific ABC license? No, but we do require that a bona fide eating place as defined by ABC. | 00:35:51 | |
Is required. | 00:36:00 | |
Which we find that through the building permitting process which we've done for. | 00:36:01 | |
Every administrative use permit. | 00:36:06 | |
That we've. | 00:36:09 | |
Issued. | 00:36:10 | |
Our plans required with the application for an AUP that does not have development. | 00:36:12 | |
No. | 00:36:17 | |
Conditions of approval will be attached to building plans again and zoning compliance will be verified. | 00:36:19 | |
And has the applicant agreed to the conditions of these approval? And yes. | 00:36:23 | |
They are aware of the conditions of approval and if they are not met. | 00:36:27 | |
The use will be. | 00:36:31 | |
Revoked. | 00:36:33 | |
Our our determination is that staff followed the requirements and procedures as prescribed in 20 Title 23 as I pointed out. | 00:36:36 | |
The call up lacks merit and. | 00:36:44 | |
Or valid justification. We haven't seen any. | 00:36:47 | |
No one has really brought us to anything that would. | 00:36:51 | |
Give us reason to say that this use was not allowed. | 00:36:54 | |
And so our our recommendation is just to inform affirm the administrative decision of zoning administrator for a UP23-0179. | 00:36:58 | |
At this point, I'd also like to have Erica Vega hop on. | 00:37:08 | |
And give us a little bit of guidance and direction as to what this? | 00:37:12 | |
This type of hearing is called hearings. | 00:37:16 | |
What we what we do and and how we move forward with that. So if Erica could could speak that would be great. | 00:37:19 | |
Yes, thank you. So I just want to clarify procedurally that this call appearing is what we call a de Novo hearing. So there's you | 00:37:27 | |
know, there's no appellant or respondent, it's it's treated as if it was the initial hearing. So the decision is made based off of | 00:37:34 | |
the findings that are listed in the code that were pointed out to you in in Aaron's presentation. It just as if the Planning | 00:37:42 | |
Commission was the initial approving authority. So procedurally that's how it runs. | 00:37:49 | |
Which also means that the order of testimony is the same to psychol of your typical public hearings. | 00:37:57 | |
And that your decision needs to be made based off of. | 00:38:01 | |
The findings that are provided, that is the the crux of of the decision making process here. So if there is any concern about the | 00:38:05 | |
ability to make one or more of those findings, we would need a specific information as to why you believe one of those findings | 00:38:10 | |
cannot be made. | 00:38:15 | |
We extend your remarks, Miss Vega. | 00:38:27 | |
That. | 00:38:32 | |
Yes, we already have any questions we're we're here for you. | 00:38:34 | |
I think we'll defer questions until later until we've had the applicants presentation and then the. | 00:38:38 | |
And then public comment. | 00:38:45 | |
If that works. | 00:38:47 | |
So with that. | 00:38:48 | |
The applicant is free to come forward and make a presentation, I believe. | 00:38:51 | |
There's a representative for the client. | 00:38:56 | |
I don't know your name, so would you please state so and welcome? | 00:38:59 | |
That I think it's off. So you have to press a button. There you go. | 00:39:13 | |
Yeah, you turned it back off. Now it's on. | 00:39:18 | |
You got it. You got. No, you don't. Alright, alright, we got it. | 00:39:20 | |
Good. | 00:39:23 | |
Thank you. My name is attorney Eric von Ferrick. I am. | 00:39:24 | |
Miss Kesters legal representative in this matter. | 00:39:27 | |
And I've been authorized to speak to you tonight on her behalf, and I. | 00:39:32 | |
Very much thank you for the opportunity to speak in front of you tonight and may I have a time check on this just so that I can | 00:39:38 | |
keep my. | 00:39:42 | |
Remarks on time. | 00:39:46 | |
I think it was 10 minutes, but 10 minutes. But I don't, I don't have a countdown there, so yeah. | 00:39:50 | |
Thank you. | 00:40:00 | |
I believe, as has already been stated by by Mr. Campbell and staff, that this has already. | 00:40:03 | |
This is a permitted use, but I think it would be useful to go ahead and. | 00:40:09 | |
Go through the procedural posture which brought us here and it already has been alluded to to some extent. | 00:40:13 | |
This first started on June 28th when the application for an APU was submitted. | 00:40:19 | |
That application. | 00:40:27 | |
Facially had a. | 00:40:29 | |
Had a small defect on it. It stated that it was. | 00:40:31 | |
Going to be for a restaurant. It was then changed to a pub to conform to the code for the APU. | 00:40:34 | |
At that point, the zoning administrator stated that it was a permitted use. | 00:40:41 | |
And. | 00:40:47 | |
There were also there were complaints that came in in the interim that stated that. | 00:40:48 | |
Uh. | 00:40:52 | |
There. | 00:40:53 | |
Needed to be a bona fide eating. | 00:40:56 | |
Place in. | 00:41:00 | |
Linked to the ABC license that that really is not correct. | 00:41:02 | |
Of the ABC license on point for Miss Custer's. | 00:41:07 | |
Establishment. | 00:41:11 | |
Is going to be a type 90 and I will get into that in a minute. | 00:41:12 | |
The zoning administrator determined that the sale of alcoholic beverages for consumption is consistent with the provisions of the | 00:41:18 | |
city's General Plan and Municipal Code. | 00:41:23 | |
They're Then on September 14th, there was objection by. | 00:41:28 | |
By a miss Dahmer which stated that there are procedural errors and and the the applicant applied for the wrong ABC license. This | 00:41:33 | |
was not. | 00:41:37 | |
This was not there was no foundation to this at all. And it was not. | 00:41:43 | |
Supported by any factual evidence whatsoever. It was merely an allegation. | 00:41:47 | |
So on the On the mission, on a motion by Commissioner Sawyer. | 00:41:52 | |
This was. | 00:41:56 | |
And also seconded. | 00:41:58 | |
The Planning Commission voted in favour of a call up. | 00:42:00 | |
And then there's the findings are the ABC license requirement for a bona fide public eating place, as set forth in the in the code | 00:42:05 | |
is not. | 00:42:09 | |
Requirement. | 00:42:13 | |
For an ABC license. | 00:42:14 | |
And per the code, failure to maintain food services or any other. | 00:42:16 | |
Applicable requirements of this section. | 00:42:20 | |
Our failure to comply with any conditions of the administrative use permit shall be grounds for revocation. | 00:42:23 | |
I'll get into that a little in a little bit in more detail as well. | 00:42:28 | |
Made it earlier. | 00:42:34 | |
The type of license that Miss Kenster is has. | 00:42:35 | |
Officially. | 00:42:39 | |
Applied for with the ABC is called a type 90. | 00:42:41 | |
On sale. | 00:42:45 | |
General music slash music funeral venue which states. | 00:42:46 | |
Authorizes the sale of beer, wine, and distilled spirits. | 00:42:51 | |
At the retail consumption on the premises in a music entertainment facility is defined by. | 00:42:54 | |
Business Professions Code 23550. | 00:42:59 | |
Sales, service and consumption of alcoholic beverages are limited to. | 00:43:02 | |
The time period from 2 hours. | 00:43:06 | |
Before live performance until one hour after live performance and minors are allowed on the premises. | 00:43:09 | |
That really is the type of license that is on point for the pop and hiss. That is what it's fairly new. | 00:43:14 | |
Which might have been worth some of the confusion came from, but is absolutely on point with the type of license that she needs | 00:43:22 | |
for that. | 00:43:25 | |
For her business. | 00:43:29 | |
Stated there were. | 00:43:32 | |
Comments by the public earlier that stated. | 00:43:35 | |
That there were procedural errors with regard to her application, as we stated, as I stated earlier. | 00:43:38 | |
The only the only air was the dominus and facial. | 00:43:43 | |
Error which stated that the was being applied for was a restaurant that has since been remedied. | 00:43:48 | |
To a pub and that is on record and is in the agenda packet tonight. | 00:43:52 | |
There there was also a an allegation that there was this was the wrong ABC license. | 00:43:59 | |
Again, without any foundation any evidence that it's the wrong one. | 00:44:04 | |
I just read to the. I just read to the Commissioners. | 00:44:08 | |
That this is. | 00:44:10 | |
On point and exactly the type of. | 00:44:13 | |
License ABC License that the Pop and his needs. | 00:44:15 | |
Also, next I want to get into the duties of of the staff, OK, the staff here. | 00:44:24 | |
Mr. Campbell. | 00:44:29 | |
Zoning administrator. | 00:44:31 | |
They have a duty to the city. | 00:44:33 | |
And to the and to the community. | 00:44:35 | |
To not allow a non conforming. | 00:44:37 | |
Use. | 00:44:39 | |
They have a duty as part of their employment to not allow that. | 00:44:40 | |
Well, they both allowed it and you've heard a very detailed presentation from Mr. Campbell tonight. | 00:44:43 | |
That it should be allowed. | 00:44:48 | |
And there's really no compelling evidence to the contrary. | 00:44:50 | |
The only facts in here, in this, in this matter, have been remedied as stated in the facial de minimis. | 00:44:52 | |
Error in the initial application that has, I stated been remedied. So there. | 00:44:59 | |
The duties of the staff. | 00:45:05 | |
Are to not allow a nonconforming use, and they are stating that this is a conforming use. I think that's important to mention. | 00:45:07 | |
Next thing I want to talk about is community protection. | 00:45:19 | |
All right. And hopefully this will go to alleviate some of the angst with regard to this project. | 00:45:22 | |
Has been stated earlier that the city reserves the right. | 00:45:27 | |
Planning Commission reserves the right. | 00:45:31 | |
Our staff return reserves the right As for oversight over this entire enterprise. | 00:45:33 | |
This entire enterprise. | 00:45:38 | |
You will have if there is something that is not being done, if there is something that is not being done to code. | 00:45:39 | |
This this authorized use permit. | 00:45:45 | |
AUP can be. | 00:45:48 | |
Basically rescinded at anytime at anytime from now. | 00:45:50 | |
From approval. | 00:45:54 | |
Up to the point of building permits. | 00:45:55 | |
To the point of opening and thereafter. | 00:45:58 | |
At any point in this process, should there be nonconforming use? | 00:46:00 | |
And the city has a factual basis to back that up. | 00:46:03 | |
This permit can be. | 00:46:07 | |
Rescinded. | 00:46:09 | |
I'd like to just you know also. | 00:46:17 | |
Reiterate what the the the Deputy City Attorney stated earlier that this Commission here the five of you tonight. | 00:46:19 | |
You're basically a fact finding. | 00:46:27 | |
Organization. | 00:46:28 | |
And. | 00:46:29 | |
There are no facts. | 00:46:30 | |
There are no facts. | 00:46:32 | |
That. | 00:46:34 | |
State that this is not. | 00:46:35 | |
Out and approved. Use no facts at all on the record. | 00:46:37 | |
All the facts support that this is a permitted use. | 00:46:40 | |
And the decision that you that you render tonight? | 00:46:44 | |
Should be 100% fact driven and fact driven only and not subject to any type of arbitrariness, capriciousness. | 00:46:48 | |
Or political pressure. | 00:46:56 | |
At all. | 00:46:57 | |
Of any kind. | 00:46:58 | |
You're a fact finding organization, and that's what this permit should be contingent on. | 00:47:00 | |
And I'd like to just finish and close. | 00:47:12 | |
That. | 00:47:16 | |
I am the personal representative, legal representative of Miss Kenster in this matter. | 00:47:17 | |
It the letter of Notice of representation is on file with the city. | 00:47:22 | |
Any and all communication regarding this matter should go through my office and not to miss Kenster at all. | 00:47:26 | |
There have been communications with her in the past, and I would respectfully request that that stop. | 00:47:33 | |
I would also ask that. | 00:47:39 | |
Any unfounded allegations or any type of unfounded interference? | 00:47:41 | |
With miss. | 00:47:45 | |
Hesters ABC license. | 00:47:47 | |
Stop. | 00:47:49 | |
Finally. | 00:47:51 | |
Two at 2:15. | 00:47:53 | |
Forest Ave. | 00:47:55 | |
Is not a site open to the public yet. | 00:47:56 | |
There have been several instances of people walking in off the street. | 00:47:58 | |
And going in for whatever reason. | 00:48:02 | |
That is a trespass civilly and criminally and will be treated as such from here on out. | 00:48:05 | |
So do not go in. Please tell the people listening. Do not go into 215 Forest Ave. It is not a public venue. | 00:48:10 | |
Finally. | 00:48:19 | |
Every day that's being delayed and this has been delayed further than it should have been at this point. | 00:48:20 | |
It's costing my client money. | 00:48:25 | |
She cannot. | 00:48:27 | |
The investigation for ABC license cannot commence. | 00:48:29 | |
Until this. | 00:48:32 | |
Authorized use permit is granted. | 00:48:33 | |
That's costing her money every month that she cannot open her business. | 00:48:36 | |
Additionally, she also cannot employ some of her contractors until this is approved. | 00:48:41 | |
So every bit of delay is literally taking money out of her pocket. | 00:48:46 | |
And so I would. | 00:48:50 | |
Respectfully request. | 00:48:52 | |
That based on the fact that staff has already stated. | 00:48:54 | |
And. | 00:48:57 | |
That this call up is without merit of any kind. | 00:48:58 | |
That you vote to approve. | 00:49:01 | |
This authorized use permit. | 00:49:04 | |
Thank you. | 00:49:05 | |
Thank you. | 00:49:08 | |
Does that conclude staff or I mean applicant presentation? Yes, OK. | 00:49:10 | |
Then we will go to and then yours. | 00:49:17 | |
Your presentation is completed, Mr. Campbell. Good. | 00:49:21 | |
Then we'll go to public comment. | 00:49:25 | |
And is that something that? | 00:49:27 | |
You're looking at well. | 00:49:30 | |
I think we'll go first to. | 00:49:32 | |
Zoom in and Inga, Lorenz and Dahmer has her hand raised. | 00:49:35 | |
And then I will. | 00:49:40 | |
Go back and forth from zoom to the audience. | 00:49:42 | |
There's anybody in the audience that wishes to speak? | 00:49:45 | |
So, Miss Dahmer, welcome. | 00:49:48 | |
Thank you very much Chair, Lily and. | 00:49:52 | |
Commissioners. | 00:49:55 | |
Umm. | 00:49:56 | |
That was a. | 00:49:58 | |
Very comprehensive. | 00:49:59 | |
Presentation and the big guns out. And I can assure them. | 00:50:03 | |
I have not communicated with Michaela in any way, nor ever step foot around. | 00:50:07 | |
The premises and I have no problem with her getting. | 00:50:14 | |
Her business going, I really don't. | 00:50:19 | |
But same as the ABC issues a liquor license according to their rules. | 00:50:23 | |
Pacific Grove was the issue, and AUP, according to PG. | 00:50:29 | |
Rules in our municipal code and all I have wanted added in. | 00:50:35 | |
Is. | 00:50:41 | |
Condition 3. The wording that was in there first. | 00:50:43 | |
Use permit granted. | 00:50:47 | |
Which were then subsequently discretionarily taken out was. | 00:50:50 | |
Condition 3. Alcohol Beverage Control ABC. The business shall comply with the ABC license requirements for a bonafide eating | 00:50:56 | |
place. | 00:51:02 | |
That is the only thing I want the words for. A bonafide eating place added in because those are the words of PG's municipal code | 00:51:08 | |
and you as a Planning Commission need to adhere to the words of our code. | 00:51:16 | |
And frankly, staff and issuing an AUP needs to comply with the words of our code also. | 00:51:25 | |
I I want Michaela to be. | 00:51:33 | |
Fully able to move on, you know. | 00:51:36 | |
With a legitimate AUP, but we need to have those words in there. | 00:51:41 | |
To comply with our. | 00:51:46 | |
Code. | 00:51:48 | |
And. | 00:51:50 | |
I know we are unlike other jurisdictions and if if 90 and the ABC considers that license good enough for a bona fide eating place. | 00:51:54 | |
Then it's fine. | 00:52:05 | |
Two hours before performance I have no problem with noise. Anything else I just want an AUP. | 00:52:07 | |
To accurately state. | 00:52:15 | |
What is in our Pacific Grove? | 00:52:17 | |
Municipal. | 00:52:21 | |
Code. | 00:52:22 | |
I don't even need my 3 minutes to say that. | 00:52:23 | |
I'm glad we got all this other. | 00:52:26 | |
Information that I have certainly reviewed on my own prior to this. | 00:52:30 | |
But there were two or three other discrepancies in the the original one and this one. | 00:52:35 | |
I just want these words added. It's very simple. | 00:52:42 | |
Because ABC can do their thing, but we must adhere to. | 00:52:45 | |
The wording in our. | 00:52:50 | |
Municipal code. | 00:52:52 | |
That's it. | 00:52:54 | |
Thank you very much. | 00:52:56 | |
Thank you. | 00:52:58 | |
Thanks, Speaker is Tony Chianni. | 00:53:07 | |
Welcome. | 00:53:10 | |
Good evening, Commissioners. | 00:53:13 | |
I really appreciate the fact that the Commission pulled this up and I appreciate the. | 00:53:16 | |
Detailed explanation by. | 00:53:21 | |
Staff this evening about the procedures. | 00:53:23 | |
What is not clear to me even now. | 00:53:27 | |
Even after that presentation, is. | 00:53:31 | |
Is this a change of use? | 00:53:33 | |
Change of use. | 00:53:37 | |
What was? | 00:53:40 | |
Or is. | 00:53:41 | |
The existing use is at retail. | 00:53:42 | |
And what is? | 00:53:45 | |
The new use going to be it's going to be a pub. | 00:53:47 | |
Slash bar something like that. | 00:53:50 | |
My experience is beyond that. | 00:53:54 | |
When you change from a retail use. | 00:53:56 | |
To a restaurant use of bar, use or. | 00:54:01 | |
Pub use. | 00:54:04 | |
That there's an intensification of the use. | 00:54:05 | |
And usually there's an intensification of the parking requirements for that use. | 00:54:09 | |
And those are based upon the occupancy. | 00:54:14 | |
So if the occupancy is. | 00:54:16 | |
Going to be. | 00:54:18 | |
Pub. Bar. Restaurant. | 00:54:20 | |
And the density and the. | 00:54:22 | |
Building is going to be greater than that. | 00:54:24 | |
It would have been as a retail use. | 00:54:27 | |
And that. | 00:54:30 | |
Means there's going to be more people there. | 00:54:31 | |
More parking requirements. | 00:54:33 | |
At least. | 00:54:35 | |
And if it's going to change from a retail use that didn't have a sink? | 00:54:38 | |
And a bar does have a sink then. | 00:54:42 | |
I'm assuming there's going to be building permits. | 00:54:44 | |
And I think the applicant even indicated that there would be. | 00:54:47 | |
That there's contractors involved. I think I heard that word. | 00:54:50 | |
That there's building permits involved that brings me back to the staff presentation that. | 00:54:53 | |
You know, on the cover sheet, usually the. | 00:55:00 | |
First sheet of the plans. | 00:55:03 | |
Under the general conditions, would be the requirements for. | 00:55:05 | |
The new use permit. | 00:55:10 | |
Such as? | 00:55:12 | |
The requirements for entertainment, music and stuff like that. | 00:55:13 | |
And. | 00:55:18 | |
I'm concerned that if you look at the whole site without plans, you're looking at this without any plans. | 00:55:22 | |
Are they planning to have outdoor entertainment? | 00:55:29 | |
Are they planning to remove existing parking? | 00:55:32 | |
I don't know. | 00:55:36 | |
Do you? | 00:55:38 | |
Is. | 00:55:49 | |
Mr. Ciani Dunn or. | 00:55:50 | |
I'm done. | 00:55:52 | |
Thank you. | 00:55:53 | |
Well, thank you. | 00:55:55 | |
Like he dropped off. | 00:55:58 | |
All right. | 00:56:01 | |
Is there anyone in the Zoom audience that wishes to speak? | 00:56:05 | |
If not, I will go to the audience present in the chambers this evening. Is there anyone in the audience in the chambers this | 00:56:09 | |
evening that would like to speak? | 00:56:13 | |
Miss McMurdo, I recognize you. Welcome. | 00:56:21 | |
Good evening, Chair Lily and commissioners, My name is Jenny McCarthy. I'm the President and CEO of the Pacific Grove Chamber of | 00:56:26 | |
Commerce. | 00:56:29 | |
And I did send a letter today. Thank you for looking at that. I appreciate it. | 00:56:33 | |
And we're here in support of trying to find a solution tonight. And we really hope that the planning commissioners will look at | 00:56:37 | |
everything and really find a way forward so this business can succeed. And we'd love to see the new business in our downtown. | 00:56:44 | |
We're excited to welcome them. So we hope that tonight you can find a way. | 00:56:50 | |
Forward for this applicant. | 00:56:57 | |
Thank you for your service. | 00:56:58 | |
Thank you. | 00:57:01 | |
Alright, is there anyone else who would like to speak? | 00:57:04 | |
Please come forward. | 00:57:08 | |
See if this is tall enough. | 00:57:15 | |
Hi, thank you very much for hearing my my concerns and thoughts. | 00:57:16 | |
Ohh, let's see. | 00:57:22 | |
The I'm here to speak about the findings #8. | 00:57:23 | |
In the presentation. | 00:57:27 | |
My name is Annalisa Miller and we own the building directly across from the back parking lot. | 00:57:30 | |
And Michael and I have been in communication, so we're trying to communicate and work things out. | 00:57:35 | |
To discover and understand. | 00:57:43 | |
The discrepancy between. | 00:57:45 | |
A venue that needs food. | 00:57:47 | |
Uh. | 00:57:50 | |
Attached to the the Type 90 ABC license. | 00:57:51 | |
And where that food is served. | 00:57:55 | |
For right now, we understand it's going to be in a a portable. | 00:57:58 | |
Unit on the back parking lot. | 00:58:01 | |
Umm. | 00:58:04 | |
Perhaps there can be? | 00:58:06 | |
A way to control the noise. | 00:58:08 | |
However. | 00:58:10 | |
The awareness again is that there are 8 residential units. | 00:58:11 | |
I never received a contact that this was going in as per ABC requirements. I do have my letter stating here in July, but. | 00:58:16 | |
Nothing from the group. | 00:58:26 | |
That wants to open the business we'd love to have. | 00:58:29 | |
A great music venue on our street. We it's a wonderful St. | 00:58:31 | |
There is an enclosure. That is all. | 00:58:36 | |
Concrete wall. | 00:58:41 | |
And that is going to amplify sound. | 00:58:42 | |
And even though the venue of music will be inside. | 00:58:45 | |
The discussion of doors opening, closing doors opening, closing till 1011 at night is a concern for residents I have. | 00:58:49 | |
Tenants that have children that go to school at the middle school and it's right outside that window. So this isn't so much a. | 00:58:56 | |
Personal it is, but. | 00:59:04 | |
How do I determine and how do we as residents on the street understand? | 00:59:07 | |
That. | 00:59:11 | |
The. | 00:59:12 | |
Food truck use is part of. | 00:59:14 | |
Planning and is is. | 00:59:18 | |
Can address this type 90 ABC licensing. | 00:59:21 | |
And. | 00:59:25 | |
If indeed the noise exceeds. | 00:59:26 | |
As stated in the findings #8. | 00:59:29 | |
Umm. | 00:59:32 | |
How do we go from there? It would be a shame to have somebody spend so much time, energy and money on a business. | 00:59:33 | |
When the consideration wasn't. | 00:59:40 | |
Intact in the beginning. | 00:59:42 | |
So hopefully I. | 00:59:44 | |
I'm able to, kind of. | 00:59:46 | |
Let you know that we'd love to support businesses in our community and our street. | 00:59:48 | |
But the sound is concerned and the parking is a big concern. | 00:59:54 | |
And we'd love to write as owners of property on that street. Maybe there's a possibility of doing some kind of. | 00:59:58 | |
A parking permit. | 01:00:04 | |
In front of the buildings. | 01:00:05 | |
Of of, you know personally owned buildings so that. | 01:00:07 | |
Tenants have a place to park and we have a place to park too, so that was my in conclusion. Thank you for listening to my concerns | 01:00:11 | |
and thoughts. | 01:00:14 | |
And have a lovely evening. Thank you. | 01:00:18 | |
Is there anyone else who would like to speak? I think someone else raised their hand in the audience. | 01:00:24 | |
Surely there's also one more virtual attendee who has her hand raised. OK, we'll recognize her shortly. | 01:00:34 | |
Welcome. | 01:00:41 | |
The. | 01:00:43 | |
In. | 01:00:44 | |
28. | 01:00:45 | |
About one. | 01:00:46 | |
Yeah. | 01:00:49 | |
I bought one of the little live work buildings on Grand Ave. across the street from where the fire pit, food truck and stage. | 01:00:50 | |
Um side of what will be the pop in his? | 01:00:58 | |
My building is a long term rental and the storefront is also available for rent. Greyhound has massive potential and with the | 01:01:01 | |
right person running a business who has that it factor likability that attracts people, sales, laughter, experiences, all those | 01:01:06 | |
good memories. | 01:01:12 | |
And judging by all the support that Michaela got. | 01:01:18 | |
At the last meeting, it seems like Michaela has got that magic. | 01:01:21 | |
Potentially to bring life and energy to our street. | 01:01:25 | |
Why am I here? | 01:01:28 | |
Three things. One to welcome Michaela. | 01:01:29 | |
I hope everything comes to fruition. | 01:01:32 | |
To say that there is a vibrant live work. | 01:01:35 | |
And live community on Grand Ave. people who live there permanently or for three to four months. | 01:01:38 | |
At a time to learn foreign language. | 01:01:43 | |
Language Institute or TO? | 01:01:46 | |
Contracted engineers. Nurses. | 01:01:49 | |
Adult kids visiting their parents that have small homes, this kind type of thing. | 01:01:52 | |
And they could be your customers. | 01:01:57 | |
They'd love healthy lunch. Uh, they could take lessons, maybe even perform on your stage. I could imagine having. | 01:01:59 | |
Ocean View parklets with students waiting for their lessons and. | 01:02:06 | |
Using the Internet, maybe a T-shirt shop? Who knows. | 01:02:09 | |
Umm. | 01:02:12 | |
My point is that remember when we put the tables down the middle of the street and block the traffic. | 01:02:14 | |
We have multiple famous musicians that have buildings on this street. | 01:02:19 | |
And we have a Juilliard trained musician. They're already so. | 01:02:23 | |
This is all to say. | 01:02:28 | |
Welcome to Grand Ave. and not only do I welcome you welcome you, but I invite you for any synergies with Michaela. | 01:02:30 | |
Grand Ave. and the City of Pacific Grove. | 01:02:37 | |
Thank you. | 01:02:41 | |
Thank you. | 01:02:41 | |
So I think there was one name on the. | 01:02:47 | |
Zoom That would be Katie Stern. | 01:02:52 | |
Hi everybody. Thank you so much. I wanted to voice my support for Poppin Hiss. This is something that we've been waiting for in | 01:02:57 | |
Pacific Grove for a long time. | 01:03:02 | |
We already have a group that's very active looking to create an arts district and I feel this would be really amazing to | 01:03:07 | |
collaborate with Pop and Hiss in the Arts District. | 01:03:12 | |
It feels like something that would benefit multiple generations I also want to address. | 01:03:18 | |
The car issue. Our community is so walkable. I know a lot of us enjoy biking and walking downtown. | 01:03:25 | |
I'd like to remind everybody that not everyone travels by car, and I think that. | 01:03:32 | |
We don't always need additional parking just because a new business is entering the town. | 01:03:37 | |
Yeah, just want to voice my support. Thank you so much for. | 01:03:43 | |
Joining the community and I I hope you're successful. | 01:03:47 | |
Thank you and thank you for your service. | 01:03:51 | |
Thank you. | 01:03:54 | |
Any further comments in the audience on Zoomer in Chambers? | 01:03:58 | |
Yes, Chair. The next speaker is Dean H. | 01:04:03 | |
Yes, I'm sorry. Would you prefer to go with the virtual attendees first or go with the gentleman that's standing up in the | 01:04:07 | |
chambers and then we'll go to Christine H. | 01:04:13 | |
They're not virtual. You're real. You're real. Yeah, we have very real. | 01:04:21 | |
Um, am I good to go? It says 207. | 01:04:28 | |
Good evening, Commissioners. Thank you. | 01:04:37 | |
I've been. I am. My name is Sloan Camping. I'm trained as a city planner, though I'm not employed just one right now. | 01:04:47 | |
Umm. | 01:04:53 | |
And. | 01:04:55 | |
The community of Pacific Grove. | 01:04:57 | |
Cares very much about following the the code. | 01:05:00 | |
Here, as they should. | 01:05:05 | |
As do you. | 01:05:06 | |
Umm. | 01:05:08 | |
Mr. Ziani's comments that we just heard, he was he was pointing to a a change of use. | 01:05:11 | |
Now it would be my understanding that the change of use can only occur after. | 01:05:19 | |
Uses there. | 01:05:22 | |
So. | 01:05:25 | |
That they're seeing, I would, I would implore the citizens here to. | 01:05:27 | |
Understand what the code is and what this means. | 01:05:32 | |
Umm. | 01:05:36 | |
You know, Miss Dahmer spoke about wanting words added to an application here. | 01:05:37 | |
And to her point, we want those applications to be consistent and correct with the code. | 01:05:44 | |
And to the point, the staff. We want them to be consistent correct with the code however. | 01:05:50 | |
Words should not warrant a three month process, a three month delay. | 01:05:55 | |
In the process of a business trying to open. | 01:06:00 | |
A few words shouldn't do that. | 01:06:04 | |
Um, errors are found on applications all the time. | 01:06:08 | |
And they're corrected for in a timely manner. | 01:06:12 | |
And. | 01:06:17 | |
Though Miss Dahmer, you know, she says. | 01:06:18 | |
I I I'm happy that she wants this business, but. | 01:06:22 | |
She has been the impetus of this process, of this delay in this process because it was her comments. | 01:06:25 | |
That brought us to where we are now. | 01:06:31 | |
In terms of adhering to requirements, my understanding is this business and Michaela has done nothing but that. Staff has reported | 01:06:35 | |
that. | 01:06:40 | |
The zoning administrator has said that. | 01:06:45 | |
And here we are to hopefully affirm that, and I really hope that you do. | 01:06:47 | |
And in terms of parking requirements, this is a downtown district. I don't know what the exact parking requirements are. | 01:06:53 | |
But. | 01:06:59 | |
If there is. | 01:07:01 | |
Things that need to be added to the code. | 01:07:03 | |
For that. | 01:07:05 | |
By all means you can do that. | 01:07:06 | |
But for now. | 01:07:09 | |
This is conforming. | 01:07:11 | |
From what I hear. | 01:07:13 | |
From where I stand. | 01:07:14 | |
Thank you for your time on this. I'm. | 01:07:17 | |
And I certainly hope you affirm this. | 01:07:20 | |
So that a business can finally open. | 01:07:23 | |
And be consistent with the code. | 01:07:26 | |
Thank you. | 01:07:27 | |
Thank you. | 01:07:28 | |
Makes the speaker as Christine H. | 01:07:37 | |
Welcome. | 01:07:41 | |
Hi, thank you, Commissioners. I my name is Christine Hara and I'm a community member in Pacific Grove and I just wanted to call in | 01:07:44 | |
to express my support for pop and hiss. | 01:07:50 | |
I think it's wonderful what Michaela is putting together for our community, because not only would adults be able to enjoy this, | 01:07:57 | |
but I'm also thinking about students of music who would potentially have another venue to perform or even to. | 01:08:04 | |
Purchase food there when they're waiting for music classes and whatnot. | 01:08:11 | |
Umm. | 01:08:15 | |
I find it. | 01:08:16 | |
Really disturbing that this process has been able to take three months based on. | 01:08:18 | |
Verbiage that needed to be changed in the application and I understand the reasons for that and why we have codes in the first | 01:08:24 | |
place. | 01:08:27 | |
But I really do implore the Commission to. | 01:08:31 | |
Approve this. | 01:08:34 | |
Project and not have it hinge on having the wording of. | 01:08:36 | |
Bona fide pub, or whichever language that was, and in order to approve it. | 01:08:41 | |
This is one of our citizens in our one of our community members who's losing quite a bit of money and she's only trying to create. | 01:08:46 | |
More culture and more art. | 01:08:53 | |
And so I hope that the Commission is willing to approve it today. Thank you. | 01:08:57 | |
Thank you. | 01:09:01 | |
The next speaker is Lisa Chiani. | 01:09:09 | |
Welcome. | 01:09:12 | |
Thank you. | 01:09:14 | |
I I just wanted to ask. | 01:09:15 | |
Something about something that's not clear to me, but maybe it's clear to you and that'll be great. | 01:09:19 | |
But. | 01:09:24 | |
At the beginning of staff's presentation, there was reference to. | 01:09:25 | |
A use permit. | 01:09:31 | |
With. | 01:09:34 | |
Without development, as if as if we're talking about. | 01:09:34 | |
About. | 01:09:39 | |
A permit. | 01:09:41 | |
That doesn't involve development and then later. | 01:09:42 | |
We heard. | 01:09:46 | |
That. | 01:09:48 | |
That. | 01:09:50 | |
Contractors are not being able to start. | 01:09:52 | |
And the a building permit is required and I think building permits are for development. | 01:09:55 | |
So I I found that confusing but. | 01:10:01 | |
Again, it may be perfectly clear to you and and thank you for your. | 01:10:05 | |
Careful consideration of this issue. | 01:10:11 | |
Thank you. | 01:10:18 | |
No other attendees have their hand raised. I think there's one out in the audience, the lady in OK Luke. | 01:10:22 | |
Welcome. | 01:10:27 | |
Hi, I just wanted to personally say that I helped Michaela on this project through the whole process in terms of helping with | 01:10:32 | |
design and everything. And I know that she was very diligent from the very beginning before she started anything to make sure that | 01:10:38 | |
she worked with the city. | 01:10:43 | |
To go through what their requirements were, what they needed as it changed even through the process as they were understanding the | 01:10:49 | |
code. She was very good about going through doing updates in a timely manner to actually. | 01:10:56 | |
Get through and make sure that she was complying and now that they have actually twice. | 01:11:03 | |
Now confirmed and approved it. | 01:11:10 | |
The fact that it's going on like this is kind of disheartening because the whole. | 01:11:13 | |
Process is supposed to be that the professionals go through, there's approval and then she can continue with what she's doing. | 01:11:17 | |
And so as a professional, this is kind of interesting to see in the design community that this is taking so long and that the | 01:11:25 | |
public is able to kind of hold it up in this process. | 01:11:30 | |
After multiple times of being approved. | 01:11:37 | |
And so I'm hopefully tonight there can be a conclusion so that she can continue. | 01:11:39 | |
The project and move forward with the whole process and so the community can then have a place and it can be open to them as well. | 01:11:45 | |
And they can see that she is in compliance and she can actually follow through with all the things that she can't prove right now, | 01:11:51 | |
but that she has told them that she will follow through with and that they are. | 01:11:57 | |
That she's able to actually do that. So thank you. | 01:12:04 | |
Thank you. | 01:12:08 | |
Mr. Sidor is at. | 01:12:16 | |
I believe that's all the speakers for this item. OK. | 01:12:18 | |
Vice Chair Murphy. | 01:12:23 | |
I I think I have to make a few disclosures. I live fairly close to Papa and his, but I'm outside the 500 foot. | 01:12:24 | |
Conflict zones, so I think I'm OK to be part of the hearing. | 01:12:33 | |
I didn't attend the last. | 01:12:37 | |
Meeting when this project was called up, but I did. I did watch it on on video. | 01:12:40 | |
And they also want to say I did attend. | 01:12:45 | |
The administrative hearing on the 21st of August. | 01:12:47 | |
Thank you. | 01:12:51 | |
I also will say at this point to that I attended the August 21st public hearing with Mr. Murphy was there. | 01:12:53 | |
And did not speak, just sat in the audience and and watched. | 01:13:01 | |
Commissioner Sawyer, did you have a comment? | 01:13:06 | |
I also attended the August meeting as well and. | 01:13:09 | |
Made no comments, just listen to what was being presented. Thank you. | 01:13:13 | |
All right. We now come to. So that will conclude then the public comment portion of the hearing. | 01:13:17 | |
So we will now move on to Commission. | 01:13:24 | |
Discussion and. | 01:13:28 | |
Potentially, possibly resolution of this. So who would like to begin? | 01:13:31 | |
Like you like, do you have any would like to ask questions or of of the applicant or the staff? | 01:13:41 | |
Because I have some, but when you're done, you know, maybe we can all. | 01:13:47 | |
Decide what we. | 01:13:52 | |
Yeah, I know. I I just have a couple of, I just have a couple of questions. | 01:13:53 | |
And we're required to make findings in order to make them like I think we have to understand them. | 01:13:58 | |
And one of the findings says the location size design. | 01:14:03 | |
And operating characteristics of the proposed use are compatible. | 01:14:08 | |
With the existing and future land uses in the vicinity. | 01:14:12 | |
Can you, I guess, Mr. Campbell, just briefly tell us a little bit about the. | 01:14:16 | |
Design and operating characteristics. I'm not sure exactly what that means here. | 01:14:20 | |
In general, thank you, Commissioner. | 01:14:25 | |
This is an existing building. So again, we're back to development to understand what development is. It's not a fit out or a | 01:14:28 | |
tenant improvement. | 01:14:33 | |
Where contractors are involved in development is. | 01:14:38 | |
For example, when you receive a use permit for. | 01:14:41 | |
For any development project that that you you see you are required to have plans because there's nothing there. | 01:14:46 | |
We have something there. So the design in this case just means the existing building's existing build. Yeah, that's pretty much | 01:14:52 | |
it. Thank you. | 01:14:56 | |
Umm. | 01:15:00 | |
In this. | 01:15:02 | |
And thank you also for your presentation that. | 01:15:04 | |
I think that helped me understand a bunch of things I perhaps didn't understand before, so thank you. Thank you very much. | 01:15:07 | |
I. | 01:15:13 | |
I've heard reference to a food truck. | 01:15:13 | |
And I I don't know whether. | 01:15:16 | |
I understand in our condition that a bona fide eating place is required. | 01:15:19 | |
And I guess again, I don't know if there is going to be a food truck or or not. | 01:15:24 | |
But if there is, is that a bona fide eating place? | 01:15:28 | |
If if there is only a food truck and not a kitchen and again I I don't know if that's the existing. | 01:15:33 | |
Situation and. | 01:15:38 | |
That perhaps Mr. Font Ferrick could answer that if. | 01:15:40 | |
The first question is to Mr. Campbell. We would we would first have to see so the definition of bona fide eating place, which is | 01:15:44 | |
actually written on the. | 01:15:49 | |
The permit. | 01:15:54 | |
Umm. | 01:15:55 | |
It does have to meet those. So if they're the food truck, we'd have to know the food truck, we'd also. | 01:15:57 | |
They will be required to get, just like, you know, an ABC license. We say the state is the authorizing agency. | 01:16:02 | |
Food truck is the county. | 01:16:10 | |
For that aspect of it, so we would have to we've got two requirements there we're going to have to meet our requirement says it | 01:16:11 | |
has to meet a bona fide eating. | 01:16:14 | |
Eating place. | 01:16:17 | |
And and again we do that through our our building process and they will let us know because we can't again we can't issue. | 01:16:19 | |
We can issue a business license. We can issue the the contract or the the building permits without knowing. | 01:16:28 | |
That there is a that it meets the requirements for a bona fide eating place. Thank you and if Mr. Fun Fact if you wanted to. | 01:16:34 | |
Add anything? | 01:16:42 | |
Yes, please. | 01:16:43 | |
Alright. | 01:16:52 | |
So for clarification. | 01:16:52 | |
There's been some references to a food truck similar to that. | 01:16:54 | |
That other facilities around the area. | 01:16:59 | |
Have this will be in an immobile. | 01:17:02 | |
Uh. | 01:17:05 | |
Fixed. | 01:17:06 | |
Place it'll be the the back end. | 01:17:07 | |
Of a food truck without. | 01:17:09 | |
Mobility. | 01:17:11 | |
So we'll be there on site. | 01:17:12 | |
And I can also reassure. | 01:17:15 | |
People. | 01:17:17 | |
As well, that miss. | 01:17:18 | |
This Kenster has done her due diligence in this matter. | 01:17:21 | |
She has talked to city officials. | 01:17:24 | |
With regard to this, what conforms? What does not conform? | 01:17:26 | |
And she's been given. | 01:17:29 | |
Things that she needs to. | 01:17:30 | |
Put in what she needs to build, and she fully intends to do so. | 01:17:32 | |
With regard to a backup kitchen facility. | 01:17:36 | |
That sort of thing. So I want to kind of dispel and try to reassure some people that this will be. | 01:17:39 | |
Code conforming. | 01:17:45 | |
Bona fide eating place and if it is not like I stated in my presentation. | 01:17:46 | |
You are all free to rescind. | 01:17:51 | |
The the authorized use permit. Thank you. That's helpful. And I I do have another question. | 01:17:53 | |
And I realized that ABC. | 01:17:58 | |
And permanent is is outside our purview. | 01:18:00 | |
But but I'm just curious, you mentioned a type 90 license and the way you described it. | 01:18:03 | |
Sounded as if. | 01:18:10 | |
Alcohol could be served only if they were live performance and still misunderstanding. That's correct, it states. | 01:18:13 | |
Two hours before a live performance. | 01:18:19 | |
Until one hour after a live performance is stated as the type 90. | 01:18:21 | |
Life insurance. But does that mean other times you cannot serve out? Correct. | 01:18:26 | |
That's correct. So it's if there is a live performance, then it's two hours before. | 01:18:30 | |
When all rafter. | 01:18:34 | |
So if they're performer 6, they. | 01:18:38 | |
Can't. | 01:18:40 | |
Yeah. | 01:18:42 | |
Again this. | 01:18:44 | |
That's the service of alcoholic beverages. Only now the place can remain open and not serve alcoholic beverages. | 01:18:46 | |
If that is, if those criteria are not met, OK. Thank you. And may I just address one other thing, a couple other things if it | 01:18:52 | |
would be. | 01:18:56 | |
Helpful in your deliberations. | 01:19:00 | |
Just a couple of things that came up in public comment that that. | 01:19:02 | |
With regard to noise, just want you all to know that Miss Miss Kenster will be employing a sound engineer. | 01:19:06 | |
All right, before every performance. | 01:19:13 | |
And we'll take readings. | 01:19:16 | |
That engineer will take readings to make sure to ensure that does not exceed the decibel limit pursuant to the code. | 01:19:18 | |
I want to give reassurance to that also that was stated that this was this application was first applied to as retail. That's not | 01:19:24 | |
correct. It the the problem was it was applied. It was applied to as a restaurant and then changed to a pub. | 01:19:30 | |
That was the only facial problem there was, and it's been remedied, remedied as I've stated. | 01:19:36 | |
Umm. | 01:19:42 | |
With regard to notification, ABC does not have a requirement. | 01:19:43 | |
To notify. | 01:19:47 | |
Establishments such as an Airbnb, such as the transient type of hotel, things like that, only residential facilities or tenancies | 01:19:49 | |
that's that are fixed. | 01:19:54 | |
Not Airbnbs and or anything of the like. So I just want to make sure that the Commission was aware of that before your | 01:19:59 | |
deliberations and those were pretty much everything that I had with regard to trying to. | 01:20:04 | |
Answer some of the questions that both you may have and and people online and here may have. | 01:20:10 | |
Thank, thank you very much and. | 01:20:14 | |
Well, he had a vice chair. Well, I didn't have another question. | 01:20:18 | |
I'm very confused. | 01:20:25 | |
And I'm hoping that we can sort of settle this. | 01:20:27 | |
I am totally in favor of what she wants to do. | 01:20:31 | |
However, she and I had a discussion. | 01:20:36 | |
And it feels like. | 01:20:40 | |
The license that she originally applied for, which is a 90 food, is not totally required. | 01:20:43 | |
And now she's a pub. | 01:20:50 | |
And so I'm just wondering where we are with that, who does not required with regard to the Type 90 license is required by the | 01:20:53 | |
municipal code. Therein lays a lot of the confusion. | 01:20:58 | |
She will be, she will be conforming to the code with regard to the eating. | 01:21:03 | |
Place but my concern. | 01:21:08 | |
And I don't know how to. | 01:21:12 | |
Have it come together. | 01:21:14 | |
Are. | 01:21:17 | |
PG municipal code is dated. | 01:21:18 | |
We had. | 01:21:21 | |
The ABC's be able to put forth. | 01:21:22 | |
A-90 license. | 01:21:25 | |
Which means she doesn't really have to serve food. But now we're requiring her to do that, and I just don't know. | 01:21:27 | |
How to make what we have on the books with what she really wants to do because she was real clear. | 01:21:35 | |
When she and I talk, she says. I don't want a restaurant, I just want to be able. | 01:21:41 | |
To do with this. | 01:21:45 | |
90 states that I can do and that's my dilemma for her. | 01:21:47 | |
Not being Privy to that conversation, I really can't speak to it. However, I can't speak to the fact. | 01:21:51 | |
That you're correct, it's not the type 90 is not contingent. However the municipal code is. So she's going to be held to that. | 01:21:55 | |
That's there is common enforcement that is that you have in the city that can go check. | 01:22:00 | |
I can go look and say you're not in compliance, you're at risk of having your permit revoked. | 01:22:06 | |
I think what we're doing here, I do have to point out the ABC license. | 01:22:12 | |
Is not. | 01:22:17 | |
Something that we can we have no. | 01:22:18 | |
Control over we have we can require the license we we understand that. I know and we're discussing it I think let's have some | 01:22:20 | |
order here so. | 01:22:25 | |
So you made your point that what was that again that the point is that the, the type of license is not part of our our zoning | 01:22:30 | |
ordinance, it's not part of our code nor is it part of our purview. | 01:22:36 | |
What it is is that we do require the the eating establishment for any of our drinking places. | 01:22:41 | |
Alright, thank you. It was. | 01:22:47 | |
And I'm very clear about that. However, we have a woman. | 01:22:49 | |
Who wants to have a business? | 01:22:54 | |
She's gonna have to spend more money because she's caught in this sort of catch 22 and that's the part that bothers me the most. | 01:22:56 | |
Is how How can we rectify that? I realize we have it. | 01:23:03 | |
And the municipal code that she has to have. | 01:23:06 | |
A kitchen, but she's been. | 01:23:09 | |
You know, maybe she doesn't want to have a kitchen because she's got an ABC License 90 that says she doesn't have to. | 01:23:11 | |
And our municipal code is not up to date. | 01:23:17 | |
That would be subject to conjecture, yeah. And not before the, not before the Commission right now, right. I can understand. | 01:23:21 | |
With this solution. | 01:23:28 | |
Whole point that she's done her due diligence as we understand that, we understand that. So Commissioner Sawyer or Commissioner | 01:23:30 | |
Davison? | 01:23:34 | |
I I mean, I think these are almost two different things where we could we can say that yeah, maybe we should change the municipal | 01:23:38 | |
code, yes, to allow for bars and Taverns, but in the meantime approve this to go forward as is and then there could be a change in | 01:23:43 | |
the future where she wouldn't need to serve it but not have it. | 01:23:48 | |
An issue at this point. | 01:23:54 | |
And and that was where my concern was, because I just feel that we're forcing her into. | 01:23:56 | |
A square box when she's a circle. | 01:24:03 | |
Well, like I said, Miss Miss Kester has every every intention to conform to the code, and you have all the power here to resend it | 01:24:08 | |
if she's not. | 01:24:11 | |
So. | 01:24:15 | |
There's really no downside here for the for the Commission. Understand that and I appreciate your comments. | 01:24:16 | |
I I have a question are there other questions? If not, I have a couple questions about this because I think this. | 01:24:21 | |
The confusion here is a type 90 license versus our code. | 01:24:27 | |
Bona fide evening establishment, Whether that's in or out, bonafide eating establishment has been typically associated with a Type | 01:24:33 | |
41 or 47 ABC licence. | 01:24:38 | |
So the question I have is. | 01:24:43 | |
Could a 90 license be considered? | 01:24:45 | |
A bona fide eating place. There's nothing in the language in in that I I didn't think so, but I just wanted to ask. States that | 01:24:48 | |
it's a requirement. | 01:24:52 | |
The requirement, a lot of the confusion as I stated is coming from that it's a a separate and apart. | 01:24:56 | |
Condition of the municipal code. | 01:25:01 | |
It doesn't have to do with ABC. | 01:25:04 | |
And. | 01:25:06 | |
That's that's where a lot of confusion really is coming from. And. | 01:25:06 | |
I hope I'm doing my best tonight to try to alleviate some of that. | 01:25:10 | |
It is not required for her ABC permit or license. It is required, however, to do business. | 01:25:12 | |
As she as she's looking to do. | 01:25:19 | |
Add Pop and his our our. | 01:25:21 | |
Municipal code though, as I read it, is very clear it says that. | 01:25:23 | |
The applicant will get an ABC license. | 01:25:27 | |
As a bona fide eating establishment. | 01:25:30 | |
That's not correct. That's not correct. Well then let's under that. | 01:25:33 | |
Because maybe you know, maybe that maybe That's the source of confusion here. | 01:25:38 | |
I think it's in 2364290 is that? | 01:25:44 | |
Does that sound correct, Mr. Campbell or that is correct, that's the correct section and. | 01:25:48 | |
If, if and we could also if you would like to to. | 01:25:54 | |
To check with the the assistant city attorney. | 01:25:57 | |
Before that, please the definition. | 01:26:01 | |
Is in the municipal code for what it states in the ABC. | 01:26:04 | |
OK, that's for definition uses only. | 01:26:09 | |
For what she can and cannot do. | 01:26:11 | |
This specific type 90 licensure does not require that, however the city code does. | 01:26:14 | |
See the the rub here it seems to me. | 01:26:20 | |
You know, to cut to the quake. | 01:26:22 | |
Is that she is. | 01:26:24 | |
Legitimately. | 01:26:26 | |
And I support this project, by the way, and I want to see her succeed, but we're trying to find a solution here. | 01:26:27 | |
And and there's confusion about it. | 01:26:33 | |
She's applied for an A Type 90 license. | 01:26:37 | |
My understanding and you can correct me if I'm incorrect. | 01:26:39 | |
My understanding is the state cannot. | 01:26:43 | |
Grant her that license. Until we have straightened this out here, that that part is correct, we cannot start the investigation as | 01:26:45 | |
I stated in my in my state that initially, initially until this is resolved. OK, so she's applied for a type 90 license that does | 01:26:51 | |
not include a food service. | 01:26:56 | |
But our our code appears to. | 01:27:02 | |
Require a bona fide food service, as Miss Dahmer pointed out. | 01:27:05 | |
So how did the two meet? | 01:27:10 | |
It it looks to me like. | 01:27:12 | |
She's agreed to the. | 01:27:14 | |
And and and you said she agreed to the conditions and and the initial use permit. It looks to me like she. | 01:27:16 | |
Agree to conditions that are defined by a type. | 01:27:22 | |
41 or 40 civil license. | 01:27:26 | |
That define or have in it. | 01:27:28 | |
Bona fide food service. | 01:27:30 | |
I mean that's that's really the crux of this, right. However is as staff had stated, as Mr. Campbell stated this, this Commission | 01:27:33 | |
design of authority. | 01:27:36 | |
To tell miss. | 01:27:40 | |
Miss Kester, what center license she can have. | 01:27:42 | |
No, we don't. We don't. But we can insist. | 01:27:45 | |
That she have, you know, just add the words if. | 01:27:48 | |
Just add the words on to the end of of of. | 01:27:51 | |
Of condition three that Miss Dahmer pointed out. And we'd be done. But the reality is, I don't think that gets her anywhere. | 01:27:54 | |
So maybe we're just going into this too deep, but but I, I, I, I wanna see your succeed. I wanna see your proceed ahead. | 01:28:01 | |
If she's ends up with a license that she can't use or doesn't make any sense for, well, I don't know what to say. | 01:28:08 | |
The license, if I may, since this is really a a code interpretation issue. | 01:28:15 | |
Is that OK? | 01:28:21 | |
Please. | 01:28:22 | |
So. | 01:28:23 | |
You know the I I fully understand the confusion the the wording in the code. It's a bit unfortunate that it uses such similar | 01:28:25 | |
language to the ABC licensing because it makes it a little bit muddy. | 01:28:30 | |
However. | 01:28:36 | |
What the code says is that the business shall comply with the ABC license requirements for a bona fide public eating place. | 01:28:38 | |
It doesn't say. | 01:28:46 | |
You have to obtain an ABC license for a bona fide public eating place. | 01:28:47 | |
So. | 01:28:53 | |
The the difference here is that she can she can get any type of ABC license that ABC. | 01:28:54 | |
Feels. | 01:29:02 | |
Is appropriate to issue. | 01:29:02 | |
To to her as an applicant. | 01:29:04 | |
On the City side, regardless of what kind of ABC license she obtains, we just verify. | 01:29:07 | |
That a bona fide public eating place is being operated. | 01:29:14 | |
On the premises, regardless of whether it is required by an ABC license or not. | 01:29:18 | |
So, so that that is the distinction there. | 01:29:24 | |
Umm. | 01:29:27 | |
And in the conditions of approval, it's actually clarified in my view. | 01:29:28 | |
From how the the code? | 01:29:33 | |
Is worded. | 01:29:36 | |
By saying the applicant must obtain an ABC license in condition 3. | 01:29:38 | |
Then condition four is the applicant must maintain a bona fide eating place. | 01:29:43 | |
So who Who in in the city determines whether it's compliant as a bona fide? | 01:29:50 | |
Eating place. | 01:29:57 | |
Well, I would certainly staff chime in. You would know processes a little bit better than me, but. | 01:29:58 | |
You know you're still at the high level. You're getting a use permit at this point. | 01:30:04 | |
Additional permits for tenant improvements and things like that will have to come through. They'll verify and then at some point a | 01:30:09 | |
certificate of occupancy will have to be issued. And at that point you would definitely verify that the facilities are there for a | 01:30:15 | |
bona fide public eating place and then once the business becomes operational. | 01:30:20 | |
Code enforcement could come in if they're not actually operating in that manner and. | 01:30:26 | |
Issue a citation. Or we could institute revocation proceedings if you know they have the facilities but they're not using them and | 01:30:33 | |
so therefore they're not maintaining the bona fide public eating place. | 01:30:38 | |
And who determines for the state? Well, that's a state issue. The state as I understand it. | 01:30:44 | |
Comes into an A. | 01:30:51 | |
And does a a license survey to determine whether or not there's compliance with the specific license they're asking for. So. | 01:30:53 | |
Again, there's a catch 22 there they're only gonna look at. | 01:31:00 | |
If they only look come in and look at the Type 90 license, they're only going to look at the the items that apply to their. That | 01:31:04 | |
has nothing to do in the case of 90 with a bona fide food place. So that's really a city. | 01:31:09 | |
Issue only. | 01:31:15 | |
That's what it is, correct. | 01:31:17 | |
So. | 01:31:20 | |
We're probably parsing words here. | 01:31:21 | |
As you said initially, which I think is probably the most operative thing that I've heard so far about any of this. | 01:31:23 | |
That one statement you made? | 01:31:30 | |
About. | 01:31:32 | |
You'd have to repeat it for me. I I don't think I can properly repeat it, but it's it's intent versus actual or something like | 01:31:33 | |
that. | 01:31:37 | |
Seems to be the crux of this thing. | 01:31:42 | |
Yeah, I don't remember my specific words unfortunately, but yes, that that's a sort of an accurate some summary this the wording | 01:31:45 | |
is unfortunately, I think a little too similar to the ABC licensing wording. It would be clearer if we use some different | 01:31:52 | |
terminology and I think that's what muddies the waters, but when you really do a close reading. | 01:31:58 | |
Of the the code language I'm. | 01:32:06 | |
Confident that my interpretation I just gave to all of you is is the correct one. | 01:32:09 | |
So as as we stand right now then it sounds like. | 01:32:15 | |
The applicant will operate would operate this thing with the Type 90 license. | 01:32:19 | |
And then? | 01:32:24 | |
Operate with a. | 01:32:26 | |
Type 41 or type 47 type license, even though it's not issued by ABC but those those are the conditions placed on. | 01:32:30 | |
This. | 01:32:38 | |
By the city on the on the operation of that, by the city, what it sounds like. | 01:32:39 | |
So even though she doesn't have an ABC license to operate a food service in conjunction with. | 01:32:44 | |
The type 90 license? She still would have to comply with that portion of the Pacific Rd. | 01:32:52 | |
Code that talked about that. The bona fide eating place. That's what it sounds like to me. | 01:32:57 | |
Would you agree with that? | 01:33:03 | |
Yes. | 01:33:05 | |
Yes, that's my interpretation and if you think about it. | 01:33:06 | |
In In the flip, ABC may not be requiring A bona fide public eating place with the Type 90 license, but it doesn't prohibit it | 01:33:10 | |
either, no. | 01:33:14 | |
1. | 01:33:19 | |
Yeah. | 01:33:20 | |
So she's free to offer a bona fide public eating place and association with the Type 90 license, but per ABC, and it's the city | 01:33:21 | |
that is requiring it. | 01:33:25 | |
Right so so this this state does not require. | 01:33:30 | |
As as in a licensed 90A bona fide food. | 01:33:34 | |
Service, but it it would appear that we are. This really what it amounts to. But then there was a comment made in. | 01:33:39 | |
Mr. Campbell's one of his. His, his. | 01:33:45 | |
Staff reports about. | 01:33:49 | |
It's not the role of the. | 01:33:51 | |
City to enforce state codes. This is wouldn't be enforcing the state code, it's our code. | 01:33:54 | |
Correct. | 01:34:00 | |
Will be specifically enforcing municipal code section 2364290 D 2. | 01:34:03 | |
OK. | 01:34:09 | |
Vice Chair Murphy pointed out the confusion. | 01:34:10 | |
But. | 01:34:14 | |
But the license isn't in our purview. All we ask is that you receive a license. Period. Correct. And and again I understand the | 01:34:15 | |
confusion, but. | 01:34:18 | |
You know, we don't care what kind of license she gets, I think. And we want her to have a. | 01:34:23 | |
This eating place because our code requires it. | 01:34:29 | |
And that that's sort of the end of it and. | 01:34:31 | |
Yes, we think we see Con. | 01:34:34 | |
Contradictions between the kind of license she may get and our code but. | 01:34:36 | |
But that's. | 01:34:42 | |
That's the way it is, what it is. Yeah. So that's maybe the. | 01:34:43 | |
The best way for me to kind of put this the only way the ABC sort of got dragged into this confusion. | 01:34:47 | |
Is because that's the ABC's definition has been adopted into the municipal code. Exactly, exactly and. | 01:34:51 | |
The the like stated before, code enforcement isn't is responsible or if there's somebody that's in there and says this is not | 01:34:58 | |
being run. | 01:35:01 | |
Pursuant to this code section. | 01:35:04 | |
Then. | 01:35:06 | |
Then. | 01:35:07 | |
Code enforcement can investigate. | 01:35:08 | |
Staff are standing, right. So I guess that's that's really wanted to say, is that right? | 01:35:10 | |
Commissioner Luzinski. | 01:35:17 | |
I'd like to make a motion that the Planning Commission affirmed the Zoning Administration decision to issue out of Authorized Use | 01:35:19 | |
Permit. | 01:35:22 | |
Based on the findings of fact. | 01:35:26 | |
And 2nd. | 01:35:28 | |
OK, so Commissioner Dudzinski made a motion to uphold the. | 01:35:29 | |
Zoning administrators. | 01:35:35 | |
Decision on. | 01:35:37 | |
The application and that was seconded by Vice Chair Murphy and you. | 01:35:39 | |
Commissioner Davidson. | 01:35:44 | |
Commissioner Davidson, did you have a comment or were you just trying? Did he beat you to the quick, or did I recognize him | 01:35:46 | |
before? I should have recognized you, OK? | 01:35:50 | |
So. | 01:35:55 | |
There we are. We have a motion on the floor and a second, and so is there any. | 01:35:56 | |
Discussion about this. | 01:36:01 | |
Further discussion about this. | 01:36:03 | |
I think we've probably. | 01:36:05 | |
Nitpicked this to death. | 01:36:08 | |
We. | 01:36:11 | |
Of course, down the line. | 01:36:12 | |
I mean if you, if you force me into a comment, I am concerned, I am concerned, I am concerned that it's taking so long to open up | 01:36:14 | |
a business. | 01:36:18 | |
I agree. | 01:36:23 | |
So. | 01:36:28 | |
Mr. Sidor, would you call the roll? If there's no further discussion, then I'll call the question. And those in favor say aye, | 01:36:31 | |
those opposed say nay. | 01:36:34 | |
And Mr. Sidor, can you call the roll, please? | 01:36:38 | |
Yes, Chair. Little, before I call roll, just to clarify, the second was by Commissioner Murphy. | 01:36:40 | |
Vice Chair Murphy, thank you. | 01:36:46 | |
Commissioner Nuzenski. | 01:36:51 | |
Aye. | 01:36:52 | |
Vice Chair Murphy. | 01:36:54 | |
Aye. | 01:36:55 | |
Commissioner Davison. | 01:36:57 | |
Aye. | 01:36:58 | |
Commissioner Sawyer. | 01:37:00 | |
Aye. | 01:37:02 | |
And sure, Lily. | 01:37:03 | |
Chair. The motion is adopted by a vote of five to zero, with two commissioners absent. | 01:37:05 | |
OK, so the the. | 01:37:12 | |
Vice Chair Murphy. | 01:37:15 | |
Mr. Campbell, Did the applicant have to pay a fee for this hearing? | 01:37:17 | |
I know they did not. Great. Thank you. | 01:37:23 | |
The ways we would say no. | 01:37:26 | |
So to to to announce the result then. | 01:37:29 | |
From Mr. Sidor the motion passed to approve the project or uphold the project. | 01:37:33 | |
By a vote of of Five Eyes, no nays. | 01:37:38 | |
And so that concludes this public hearing and good luck to the applicant and we wish her well and success in her business. | 01:37:41 | |
So we're ready to move on then to. | 01:37:54 | |
The next item on our agenda? | 01:37:59 | |
What? | 01:38:01 | |
Bus. | 01:38:02 | |
Let's see here. | 01:38:11 | |
Would be item 8B. | 01:38:15 | |
This is on the agenda as the boards and Commission joint working group. | 01:38:20 | |
And Mr. What's the staff for this item? I thought I saw Chief Mandalone's name on the Zoom, but maybe that was my imagination. I | 01:38:26 | |
don't know. She is on, Chief. Chief Malone is on. | 01:38:32 | |
So. | 01:38:38 | |
I am here, Sir. It's not your imagination. | 01:38:39 | |
Well, good. Thank you for for for waiting so. | 01:38:42 | |
We'll begin. Is you have an agenda report or would that be her or would that be you, Mr. Campbell? | 01:38:48 | |
OK. | 01:38:55 | |
It'll be me, Sir. | 01:38:56 | |
Yeah. So good evening, commissioners, members of the public and staff. | 01:38:58 | |
Thank you for the opportunity to present this evening. | 01:39:02 | |
I was asked to attend tonight's Planning Commission meeting to provide information and answer questions in regard to proposed | 01:39:05 | |
joint working group. | 01:39:09 | |
Apologies that I can't be there in person. | 01:39:14 | |
So the purpose of the group is to improve communication amongst the boards and commissions to create better collaboration on | 01:39:17 | |
projects and programs for the community. | 01:39:22 | |
So a brief summary of the working group is on a voluntary basis. | 01:39:27 | |
One member from each board and Commission, if they so choose to participate. | 01:39:31 | |
We'll meet at a cadence of the groups choosing to share information on projects and programs. | 01:39:36 | |
That are being discussed on each member's respective boards. | 01:39:42 | |
That member would return to their respective boards and provide an update on areas that would directly reflect or impact. | 01:39:47 | |
Their specific board. | 01:39:54 | |
This is similar to how our Council member liaisons come and provide an update as to as to the last council meetings or other | 01:39:56 | |
meetings that they attended. | 01:39:59 | |
In the city. | 01:40:03 | |
And this will not involve staff or council time. I will facilitate the first meeting of this group to help the group establish a | 01:40:04 | |
meeting cadence. | 01:40:09 | |
And provide parameters for the meetings. | 01:40:13 | |
I'd like to say that. | 01:40:16 | |
This is an information sharing only group. | 01:40:19 | |
No discussions or suggestions should be made on any matters. | 01:40:22 | |
If a person has a suggestion or a comment on a specific topic. | 01:40:26 | |
They should attend that. | 01:40:31 | |
The next meeting of that specific board and Commission and share their individual comments. | 01:40:33 | |
So as I said earlier, members would be able to go back to their respective boards and provide. | 01:40:39 | |
As a staff liaison report, unless there's substantial substantive discussion or action that's required. | 01:40:44 | |
Then the item should be properly agendized for that specific commissioner board for further discussion. | 01:40:51 | |
And lastly, I'll say that this has been vetted through the city attorney. | 01:40:57 | |
And determined not to be a Brown Act violation because only one member from each border Commission would participate. | 01:41:01 | |
And I would be happy to answer any questions that anyone has. | 01:41:08 | |
The the last thing I'll say is that. | 01:41:12 | |
There are a few other boards and commissions that I still need to attend or are still waiting on a liaison for, so this probably | 01:41:15 | |
won't. | 01:41:20 | |
Start until the beginning of the new year. | 01:41:25 | |
OK. | 01:41:30 | |
Ohh. | 01:41:32 | |
Discretion, the chair. Without objection, I will defer questions until we have. | 01:41:34 | |
Discussion of the Commission. And so I at that point then I would go to public comment. | 01:41:39 | |
Is there any public comment on this, Mr. Sidor? Has anybody raised their hand? There's no one in the audience, so it has to be on | 01:41:45 | |
Zoom. | 01:41:49 | |
No attendees have their hands raised alright. | 01:41:53 | |
Well then we will open and close public comment. | 01:41:57 | |
Now that didn't take long. | 01:42:02 | |
So now we. | 01:42:04 | |
Should have discussion by the Commission about this. Any questions or comments by any member of the Commission. | 01:42:06 | |
Vice Chair Murphy. I guess I have a question for the Chief. | 01:42:16 | |
Yes, Sir. | 01:42:23 | |
And and that is. | 01:42:25 | |
You know, the goal seems to be. | 01:42:26 | |
To improve communication among the boards and commissions and create better collaboration on projects and programs for the | 01:42:28 | |
community. | 01:42:32 | |
Maybe maybe I'm missing something, but we don't. | 01:42:37 | |
We don't really have occasion to. | 01:42:44 | |
And. | 01:42:48 | |
To work with other boards or commissions, you know, sometimes with the with the appeal. | 01:42:49 | |
You know things from the HRC or ARB can appeal be appealed to us? | 01:42:54 | |
And I think as residents, you know, we're interested in what the other boards and commissions. | 01:42:59 | |
You know are are up to but I. | 01:43:05 | |
I guess I just don't understand why. | 01:43:08 | |
What we would accomplish? | 01:43:11 | |
OK. I can give you provide you like an example like let's think about like the parklets. You know, if they're being discussed at | 01:43:13 | |
your boarding Commission, it may have something to do with Traffic Safety. | 01:43:19 | |
And you know, not everybody can attend all these meetings, so it would just be a vessel for. | 01:43:25 | |
Boards and commissions to share what projects they have upcoming, what projects that they're working on so that they can go back | 01:43:30 | |
to that. Like say for example, you guys said, yeah, we're gonna be talking about park lists, they can go back to this Traffic | 01:43:35 | |
Safety and advise them that. | 01:43:40 | |
Planning Commission has an agenda item on here if you want to participate in that meeting or if there's some feedback that we'd | 01:43:46 | |
like to share, maybe we wanna talk about. | 01:43:50 | |
Traffic Safety and visibility issues with parklets, things like that. | 01:43:55 | |
Thank you. | 01:44:03 | |
You're welcome. | 01:44:04 | |
Davidson. | 01:44:06 | |
Yeah. I think off the back of that, I I think maybe the opposite where it seems like there's a lot of room for collaboration | 01:44:08 | |
because there are so many projects that overlap. | 01:44:12 | |
And I think for me. | 01:44:16 | |
I would be interested to know if discussion was possible, or if the reason that's not happening is because it is. | 01:44:19 | |
In violation of the Brown Act just because if there's reporting out reporting out, it doesn't necessarily say that like we're like | 01:44:24 | |
Ohh park lists are coming up from the Planning Commission. Maybe you guys could participate on. | 01:44:29 | |
Guidance for. | 01:44:35 | |
You know traffic and safety, so our discussions of possibility or that's just out of the out of the picture. | 01:44:36 | |
Well, if I can elaborate a little bit on that, I I mean you can obviously have some type of brief conversation and discussion | 01:44:43 | |
about it. It's just. | 01:44:47 | |
To go into like, you know, hey, how about this recommendation for that project or things like that. That would be something that | 01:44:51 | |
you'd want to share at public comment as opposed to with this specific one only member of the board. | 01:44:58 | |
I know Miss Vega is is here. I don't know if she's still here. | 01:45:05 | |
Maybe she can provide a little bit more on that, on the legal ease of that. | 01:45:09 | |
This. Vega, are you there? There you are. I'm still here. Yes, so I. | 01:45:15 | |
I'm relatively new in this position and so I think this advice was given before, you know I was involved, so I I not personally | 01:45:21 | |
familiar with the facts of this working group. | 01:45:26 | |
So it's something we could certainly, I could certainly look into, but I don't feel comfortable rendering an opinion without | 01:45:32 | |
consulting with the attorney that. | 01:45:36 | |
Chief Malone. | 01:45:40 | |
Um, I've discussed this with previously. | 01:45:42 | |
Sorry, I'm sorry to put you on the spot, miss. | 01:45:46 | |
Transition, it's OK, sure. I did speak with. | 01:45:49 | |
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