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Welcome to the. 00:00:01
City of Pacific Grove Traffic Safety. 00:00:03
Meeting for January the 23rd 2024 Welcome Commissioners. 00:00:06
City staff council member and. 00:00:11
Present and online. 00:00:14
The first item will be a roll call. 00:00:17
Good afternoon. 00:00:23
Mr. Chair, we'll start off with the chairman of. 00:00:25
President sorry. 00:00:31
Commissioners Gundy. 00:00:35
You all unmute yourselves when you are speaking and talking to the mic. 00:00:39
The commissioners. 00:00:45
Can you hear me? 00:00:50
Yes, thank you, Commissioner. 00:00:52
Here. 00:00:59
Thank you, Commissioner Brown. 00:01:01
Here, Commissioner. 00:01:04
Yeah. 00:01:09
Commissioner Sham. 00:01:12
She is absent. 00:01:20
Absent, OK and Commissioner Pro. 00:01:22
Here, thank you. 00:01:25
Yeah, we have a quorum, Sir. 00:01:29
Thank you, Chief. 00:01:31
And first item is approval of the agenda. 00:01:33
And before we proceed, I'd like. 00:01:37
That 6. 00:01:41
C Which is election of officers for the 2024-2025? 00:01:45
Be continued to the February. 00:01:51
And I call for. 00:01:55
Second, the motion. 00:01:57
Top of the book. 00:02:01
OK, I will second the motion please. 00:02:04
Yeah, Commissioner. 00:02:08
Thank you. Why? 00:02:10
Off the agenda? 00:02:14
So right, I have been honored to serve as your Commissioner and. 00:02:16
Colleague, this is my last. 00:02:20
And I'm hoping that there'll be an. 00:02:23
Commissioner appointed by. 00:02:27
Or the February meeting. 00:02:29
And I think it would be in the best int. 00:02:31
Of the Commission to defer it for that reason alone. 00:02:33
And I think it's it's typical that the that the commissions and boards don't vote for new officers until the February meeting. 00:02:40
Thank you. Appreciate it. No problem. Quick question. 00:02:48
OK, we'll take a vote. 00:02:52
Chairman Flores. 00:02:55
Commissioners. 00:03:00
Turn. 00:03:03
Brown. 00:03:07
Yes. 00:03:09
Greening. 00:03:11
Brock. 00:03:15
Brock. 00:03:23
Thank you. And Thomas is absent that passed. 00:03:28
So we'll move 660 will be. 00:03:32
Moved to the February. 00:03:36
Thank you. 00:03:40
Thank you. 00:03:42
Item number three, approval of. 00:03:46
Minutes for the Traffic Safety Commission meeting of November the 24th, The meeting for prepared by Commissioner Lester Brown. 00:03:48
Any comments on the Minutes? 00:03:58
I move that we approve the Minutes as submitted. 00:04:02
I'll second that. 00:04:06
We have a look and I have greening on that, so we'll take a vote, Commissioner Gunby. 00:04:09
Aye, raining. 00:04:17
Brock. 00:04:26
Think, he said. 00:04:32
Brown. 00:04:33
Dern. 00:04:38
And chair. 00:04:41
Yes, OK, that. 00:04:44
6:00 to 1:00. 00:04:48
60. 00:04:50
Public comment. 00:05:04
Just one second general. 00:05:06
General public comment must deal with matters subject to the jurisdiction of. 00:05:08
And the Traffic Safety Commission that are not on the regular. 00:05:12
Comments from the public will be limited to 3 minutes and will not receive Traffic Safety Commission action. 00:05:16
Comments regarding items on the regular. 00:05:21
Shall be heard prior to the Traffic Safety Commission's consideration. 00:05:24
Of such items. 00:05:28
Such items. 00:05:29
Whenever possible, written correspondence should be submitted to the Traffic Safety Commission in advance of the meeting. 00:05:31
To provide adequate time for its consideration. 00:05:38
So at this time I would ask. 00:05:44
I would like to make a comment on the written comments. First I would like to thank. 00:05:47
Public Works director Go for having the. 00:05:54
Crosswalk Repainted or painted at the intersection of Central and Fountain. 00:05:58
As requested. 00:06:04
And then I would also like for our next meeting for. 00:06:07
Public Works director go to be prepared to discuss adding a stop sign on. 00:06:12
Lighthouse at forest. 00:06:20
Lighthouse. 00:06:23
Thanks. 00:06:27
Commissioner. 00:06:31
Before we move on to public. 00:06:34
Regarding this, may I just ask a quick clarifying question, Sir? 00:06:36
Chair Commissioner Gumby, do you know which of the emails that that refers to? I think I numbered them all. 00:06:41
Yeah, I don't. I don't have them printed out. And well, hang on, maybe I do have them printed out over here. I'm being with the 2 00:06:49
letters written regarding the stop sign at Lighthouse and Forest Green. 00:06:55
Good time since our. 00:07:01
That's correct. One from Bo Thomas and one from Kathy Kirkley. 00:07:04
We're both about. 00:07:10
And #5 got it. Thank you, Sir. 00:07:13
Beth Shamas. 00:07:18
Had the concern about sunset. 00:07:20
Or excuse me, that wrong one, Don and Noreen. 00:07:23
OK. 00:07:37
OK. 00:07:40
Chief, do you need any? 00:07:46
Comments from Commissioner. 00:07:48
I just he just chair gonna be just to Commissioner Gummy. I'm sorry. Just to clarify you said the stop signs at Lighthouse and 00:07:50
Forest and Lighthouse and Congress. 00:07:56
And those four emails were from. 00:08:01
Kirkley and from. 00:08:05
Thomas And then you said something just now about *****. What, what is that referring to? Is that something you also unfold? 00:08:07
Yeah. And I I. 00:08:14
About Beau Thomas, it's Kathy Kirk. 00:08:18
Commented about lighthouse. 00:08:22
And Don and Noreen ***** also commented about Forest and Lighthouse. 00:08:25
And then Diana Howell through. 00:08:30
Council member Coletti made a comment about Congress and light. 00:08:34
OK. Thank you for the clarification. 00:08:41
Hey, Public. 00:08:45
From the audience, OK. 00:08:48
There's just so everyone's aware there's one member of the public online. 00:08:52
I don't know how many are there in person, but if anybody in person wants to come forward, please do. 00:08:58
It appears we have 5 neigh. 00:09:05
Present Would anybody like to make a public comment for? 00:09:08
OK, how about our? 00:09:12
Neighbor. 00:09:15
We have one neighbor online. Would you like to speak, miss? 00:09:19
I see no hands. 00:09:25
Yep. She raised her hands. Hang on. 00:09:28
Hey, Miss Garcia, you have the floor. 00:09:34
No, I'm sorry. 00:09:36
No, I I have nothing to say. Thank you. 00:09:39
OK. Well, we're glad to have you here. Thanks for attending. 00:09:43
See. 00:09:51
Commission and staff announce. 00:09:53
Commissioners, any announcements? 00:09:58
The minutes for the January meeting will be prepared by Commissioner Stern. 00:10:04
We appreciate. 00:10:09
And our council member. 00:10:11
Emilio is present. 00:10:15
Would you like? 00:10:17
Greetings. 00:10:28
We had a council meeting a couple weeks ago and. 00:10:30
A chair unit, Forest said. There's going to be. 00:10:35
We approved quite a few commissioners through the mayor and they were all approved. 00:10:39
In in reappointments and appointments. 00:10:46
We also. 00:10:51
Two appeals, 270 Central Which? 00:10:55
That was, it was denied for the city on 270 Central, and at 1:10 Central was another location of an additional addition, and that 00:11:01
was denied for for the city and. 00:11:09
And that was the that took up a lot of the meeting because there's a way of you have to listen to the appeal and everything. So 00:11:18
there were two there, there was 2 closed session items, but according to the city attorney, there was no reportable action. 00:11:26
That's it. 00:11:34
Thank you very much. OK. 00:11:35
We report. 00:11:37
Team emceeing bike and pedestrian committee member Commissioner Katie Stern. 00:11:39
Will report on recent updates and actions. 00:11:44
Any comments on the Salinas safe route to schools? 00:11:47
And other items of interest to the T. 00:11:51
I don't have anything to report this week regarding the TMC meeting in January as. 00:11:55
Out of town, but Commissioner Lester Brown is up for being approved by the Tamsi board at the end of January as an alternate 00:12:03
representative for the city of Pacific Grove. 00:12:07
Thank you. Thank you very much. 00:12:12
Public hearings. 00:12:15
Unfinished business Cedar Sunset in Con. 00:12:17
Intersection improvement project. 00:12:20
Thank you, Chair Floors and members of the Traffic Safety Commission we're excited to be finally bringing. 00:12:25
This project forward to you today we've had two public. 00:12:32
Meetings on this one at Jen on January 9th that was held at Chautauqua Hall. We had about 30 members of the public present for 00:12:36
that meeting and then we followed up that meeting with the. 00:12:42
Public meeting last night that was held at the High School Library, Pacific Grove High School Library. We had 27 or so members of 00:12:49
the public. 00:12:54
President for that meeting last night. 00:13:00
I'm just giving a real quick intro, so. 00:13:03
The City of Pacific Grove has entered into an agreement with transportation agency from Monterey County to fund this potential 00:13:06
intersection safety improvement project, which was at Congress Sunset and Cedar. That five leg intersection it's been deemed as. 00:13:16
A precarious intersection that could maybe have some work done. We've hired the city. 00:13:26
Has higher G. 00:13:33
And this is Miss Heather Anderson. 00:13:36
To help. 00:13:38
Navigate the challenging process that Caltrans lays forward. 00:13:41
And I state that that way because this is highway. 00:13:48
And it's on the Caltrans. 00:13:51
Right away, Caltrans. Right away comes. 00:13:54
All the way Salinas 68, right? 00:13:57
All the way through. 00:13:59
The Monterey corridor down the hill and it ends at a Sylmar State Parks. 00:14:02
At the gate of a Sylmar so silly Mart Linux. So we have to go through their permitting process. 00:14:07
And it's. 00:14:13
So we hire experts to help us. 00:14:15
So today, Heather is going to be presenting. 00:14:18
To the Traffic Safety Commission, the project, as we have done at the two community meetings, but this gives us an opportunity to 00:14:22
bring it before a Board of Commission on. 00:14:27
Very formal setting. That's record. 00:14:33
And will allow members of the public. 00:14:36
Ask questions or not really ask questions but provide comments. Questions were the two public meetings and then provide the 00:14:40
opportunity for the Commission to ask questions. 00:14:46
Of myself, Heather, Josh. Her. 00:14:51
And our traffic engine. 00:14:55
Mr. Rich Steele, who knows all about traffic circles. 00:14:58
Probably won't be hearing too much for me, except if it's something about the city process. 00:15:03
Sounds like you'll get your opportunity next month, Lester. OK. With that being said, I'm going to queue up the presentation for 00:15:11
Heather. 00:15:15
Let me share my screen. 00:15:19
Bear with me. 00:15:25
Damn, there we go. 00:15:36
OK. Heather, all you. 00:15:41
This is a quick three. 00:15:50
But this presentation is kind of combination of the first two public outreach meetings that we've had to date. So it kind of 00:15:54
blended the presentation we had at the first meeting and the some of the input we received and as well as last night's meeting, 00:16:03
they were actually just boards to have people be able to freely and ask openly questions right and get some answers. 00:16:11
So with that, I'll go to the. 00:16:20
So just a brief presentation on kind of why we're here, how this came about. There was actually a study done back in 2016 for 00:16:25
those of you that were involved in that and then kind of where we're at right now currently and again part of what Daniels 00:16:30
mentioning is. 00:16:35
It's very important that we do this basis of information from the public. 00:16:41
At the beginning. That way we know we're designing the right project. 00:16:47
And it also helps us navigate the Caltrans process much easier because we know that that's the alternative that we want to move 00:16:51
forward with. So we're doing a lot of front end work purposefully to make sure it's the right design and that it makes the 00:16:56
Caltrans process go smoother. 00:17:01
So again, the 2016 study that was completed, that was a effort combined between the city, Caltrans, TMC, they're all involved in 00:17:10
that. 00:17:15
But it was looking at really Hwy. 68 as a whole. It wasn't just this section of the corridor. 00:17:21
Next slide and out of that study something then I know no one's going to be surprised by, but these were the existing challenges 00:17:28
that were identified at sunset and Congress and cedar intersection as well as on sunset between cedar and Congress to forest. 00:17:37
So congestion concerns, obviously complex intersection issues. There's school crossing concerns, and there's a lot of sidewalk and 00:17:46
bicycle facility gaps. 00:17:51
So these were the concepts that were shown in that plan. So obviously about almost 8 years old at this point, but this really left 00:17:58
it open-ended that further discussion need to be had for what the right alternative would be weighing environmental impacts, right 00:18:05
of way impacts and you know maximizing safety at that intersection. But really could it be a four way stop or potentially a 00:18:12
roundabout? 00:18:18
And then as far as the corridor itself went, that's what that bottom section is showing. 00:18:26
So as we started to dive into this project for our phase that was funded through TMC. 00:18:33
In the city. 00:18:40
Hiring us on board for this. So really the existing condition is what's shown at the top and we wanted to look at what the 00:18:43
previous concept showed unfortunately. 00:18:47
That would require some additional, right? 00:18:52
At least five feet. And we know that there's already a lot of room to play with on this section of Sunset, so we wanted to see 00:18:55
what else. 00:18:59
We might be able to come up with based on public input as well. 00:19:03
And. 00:19:07
Didn't. 00:19:09
Fill all the sidewalk gaps or help with the school frontage. 00:19:11
So there's some limitation that was previously shown. 00:19:16
Next, so our current project is this pink boundary. That doesn't mean that we're going to make improvements everywhere in this 00:19:20
pink boundary. It's just that, you know, anything we do on sunset, we need to also make sure how it interrelates with forest 00:19:26
that's adjacent or cedar in Congress. 00:19:33
Itself, but that was one of the questions we got from the public meeting. So wanted to clarify that that doesn't mean that changes 00:19:40
are happening in this entire pink area, It just means we're evaluating how changes on sunset could impact this whole pink area. 00:19:47
This is a very lengthy purpose and need that we've been working through with TMC. 00:19:57
But to summarize really the purpose of this project. 00:20:02
Is to. 00:20:05
Safety and mobility for all modes. So that's really the root of the. 00:20:08
Why we're? 00:20:12
So the scope again, that's the pretty pink boundary. 00:20:16
And looking at intersection upgrade at Congress, Cedar and sunset. 00:20:20
Improving the crossing at. 00:20:26
Which we know just recently got a little bit of an upgrade, but we want to make sure any of the sunset improvements we make are 00:20:28
taking that into account and then all the way to Forest. So again we have to adhere to Caltrans requirements, which include. 00:20:36
Certain level size truck and bus turns. For the roundabout specifically, we have to design for fast. 00:20:44
So making sure. 00:20:52
We slow folks down before they come into it through geometry and design features. 00:20:54
We want to make sure we're again, we're providing safety and access for all modes and looking to minimize impacts. We don't want 00:21:00
to hurt trees and. 00:21:04
Take right away that we don't need to. 00:21:08
So this again is kind of the current typical section that is on the table right now and was shown to the public last night. We got 00:21:12
a lot of really good feedback. The top is what's out there today and then the bottom is showing typically trying to preserve 00:21:19
parking where possible, still on the high school side. 00:21:25
And potentially including a multi use path or class one path so along that drop off and pick up zone. 00:21:33
And potentially a Class 2 bike lane on the opposing side of traffic for those that don't, you know, want to just be able to go 00:21:43
through on sunset. 00:21:48
And obviously taking right away considerations into account, but based on the feedback we've heard, this is what we'll use to 00:21:54
start actually laying some line work. 00:21:58
In the computer and see what fits. 00:22:04
So we did pull the new the latest collision data for this area. It goes a bit again outside that pink area because wanting to look 00:22:09
at traffic implications if Cedar were to be closed. 00:22:16
As that previous study showed as an alternative. So that's why you see going even further to the north with the collision data. 00:22:23
But what is showing? It's the most recent five year data and the system is always about a year behind. So we pulled it in December 00:22:33
of 20. 00:22:37
But this is about 2017 through 2022 information on collisions there. 00:22:42
And there have been nine at that Congress Cedar intersection. 00:22:48
In the most, you know, recent five years, three of which were injury, and you could go so far as saying that intersection also had 00:22:53
something to do with the other two. 00:22:58
That aren't, you know, the long laundry list. So about. 00:23:03
At or around this intersection. So we know that there's an issue here, and we'd like to start to look at solutions to solve that 00:23:08
problem. 00:23:11
There's obviously some challenges that'll again back to available space and wanting to preserve trees and right of way and limit 00:23:17
impacts in the school adjacent. 00:23:23
In the apartment on the north. 00:23:29
West Corner. 00:23:32
So we started to lay out a preliminary 4 way stop since that was one of the alternatives originally considered. 00:23:38
And also something that has been coming up in the public meetings that we've been having. 00:23:46
And it's very tight, right? It's. 00:23:50
It's got some limitations and what we ran here you can see in black. 00:23:56
Is a WB50 truck. 00:24:01
Which is not necessarily the size truck that Caltrans would require. It's much smaller. But because those are, it's really the 00:24:04
access to and from Congress. 00:24:09
We didn't want to, you know, put the behemoth on here, but it's still not really working. So a local delivery truck wouldn't fit 00:24:13
in this scenario. 00:24:18
And we don't really have enough space in this design to account for like passageways and in refuge areas for pedestrians. 00:24:24
So it doesn't. 00:24:35
Currently meet the way the purpose and need has been written, but it is still an alternative that we want to throw out there to 00:24:37
show what it looks like. 00:24:40
So for the roundabout alternatives, my unlovingly calling this the peanut about or the kidney bean. 00:24:46
But wanting to use the available space. 00:24:52
To our benefit. And so the shape is not as circular, but it's so that we can pick up all those different approaching roads. 00:24:57
Correctly and meet all those Caltrans metrics and require. 00:25:05
There are still 3 versions though that you're seeing on the screen, and the only thing that's changing between each of the three 00:25:10
is what we do with Cedar. 00:25:15
So do we bring Cedar in as an ingress or egress only we, you know, can kind of change up some striping? 00:25:20
Do we not have cedar access at all? 00:25:28
And we put kind of. 00:25:31
Shark head on the end and a little bulb out for a turn around or do we relocate? 00:25:33
Both in ingress and egress. Entirely kind of upstream on Cedar. 00:25:40
And because of the roundabout configuration, that's why we're kind of allowed to do that relocation on the third option. 00:25:44
Because you don't have as much queuing issue. 00:25:52
More as opposed to like a stop sign, you wouldn't be able to do that right? Because the car could never get out. 00:25:55
This is what it could look like visual rendering that we've put together. 00:26:02
Facing. 00:26:06
East towards the high school. 00:26:08
And this is how one would navigate depending on what mode. 00:26:13
And there's opportunity for avid cyclists. 00:26:19
To continue in the road. So that's what the orange is representing. So if you're comfortable rider and you don't feel the need to 00:26:21
exit. 00:26:26
The facility and go to a charities path and you just ride in the road and you become just like a car from a right of way 00:26:32
perspective. 00:26:36
The teal is representing where that bike PED mixture area is. 00:26:40
And the green shows those exits and entrances for cyclists. 00:26:45
So our next steps, again, we're really trying to get all this feedback from folks to help back up the decision of what the 00:26:52
alternative is moving forward. 00:26:57
So that then we can work with Caltrans in the spring to really set that preliminary layout and then we can continue forward in the 00:27:03
process and start environmental. 00:27:08
That's it. 00:27:15
Rick, always this would be this good time for the commissioners to have questions. 00:27:26
Actually, I think you should go out to public comment 1st and then we'll come back to the Commission. Thanks so much. Absolutely 00:27:30
anybody present in our hall. 00:27:34
They would like to ask a question. 00:27:39
Please come up. 00:27:42
And we have one coming. 00:27:45
Welcome. 00:27:47
My name is Mirabi Boone and I was at the meeting last night. 00:27:49
And when I when we were looking at the board with. 00:27:53
No access from. 00:27:58
All of the neighbors between Sunset and Marino Pines were there. 00:28:01
And said that would be what they would prefer. 00:28:06
Which surprised me, but that's what they like and my my biggest concern is the mixture of pedestrians and bicycles in the same 00:28:09
spot. 00:28:14
And I know it's bicycles are supposed to go and be traffic, but. 00:28:20
We know that doesn't happen all the time. So that's my that's my concern about that part of it. 00:28:27
Is the bicycles and the pedestrians. 00:28:32
Going the same way. 00:28:35
On the same sidewalk. 00:28:37
Thank you. 00:28:40
And no one else is. 00:28:42
Online. 00:28:45
Yes, formerly to raise. 00:28:48
Yes, we have. Miss Garcia, you have the floor. 00:28:51
Thank you very much. Good afternoon and welcome, Commissioners. Thank you for your service. 00:28:56
Now, I didn't attend the public meetings, so. 00:29:04
I'm unclear whether or not there's going to be. 00:29:08
The ability for people to cross. 00:29:12
I mean, the way it is now, students cross the street, there's a sign guard there and what have you to get back and forth. 00:29:16
From sunset and what have you. 00:29:25
And it sounds to me as though this is a done. 00:29:29
Umm, in that the roundabout is going in no matter what. 00:29:33
And. 00:29:39
The map that. 00:29:40
Was put. 00:29:42
I think I saw part of the roundabout. 00:29:43
Onto the mission linen property. 00:29:47
I don't know if that's accurate or not. 00:29:50
And and whether or not. 00:29:52
That has already been approved. 00:29:56
So you know, I I use that intersection quite quite often and I've never had an issue with it. 00:30:00
And I'm wondering why. 00:30:07
There hasn't been. 00:30:11
Other attempts to. 00:30:14
Whatever it is, people see happening there. 00:30:16
Aside from just going forward with a roundabout being put in. 00:30:21
As an. 00:30:26
Why the intersections haven't been marked with the sign that says five way stop so that people understand it's a five way stop and 00:30:28
not a four way stop. 00:30:33
And that just boils down. 00:30:39
You know, public education. 00:30:43
Anyway. 00:30:45
You know, my own opinion is that I don't really see a need for it, I think. 00:30:49
Just, yeah, I just, I don't get it. I think there's just a big push to put the roundabout there, just to put a roundabout there 00:30:57
for Caltrans. 00:31:01
Umm. Anyway, umm that. That's all I have to say. And and the other thing too is that. 00:31:06
This is an area more so on the mission linen side of Congress, where we have wildlife, the deer particularly. 00:31:11
That roam around. 00:31:22
Anyway, and then and then the other question I have is access from the apartments that are there. 00:31:26
You know what this will do as far. 00:31:36
People coming and going and having accessibility. 00:31:39
Their homes, how that will be changed. So anyway, thank you. Good luck. 00:31:44
Thank you for your comments. 00:31:51
Anyone else? 00:31:53
We have. 00:31:55
Or indeed coming up to the. 00:31:56
Hello. 00:32:02
Question. 00:32:12
Public comment sessions last couple days but. 00:32:14
I was curious about what? 00:32:18
What? What design? 00:32:21
Tactics or or solutions? 00:32:26
Have been discussed about trying to slow people down on Sunset Drive. 00:32:28
We live across street and we live on that drive and I find that when people are coming down the hill. 00:32:33
We're trying to turn in our driveway and they're like right on, right on the tail of us as we're trying to turn in the driveway. 00:32:38
And then as as they come out of that intersection, the five way intersection. 00:32:44
People are on the gas, you know, trying to get up that hill and they're going probably like 4045 miles an hour up that up that 00:32:48
street in front of our house. And so it's just a wide, you know, it's a wide corridor and I think you kind of get comfortable and 00:32:54
go a little faster with the with the width of that thing. 00:32:59
So so in. I know this is mostly about the roundabout, but I thought since the topic was the corridor. 00:33:05
If there is something to do to try to slow folks down, one idea was putting a stop sign at the 19th intersection there. 00:33:12
But what I've noticed living there is when people are crossing the road. 00:33:21
Umm, cars are so used to flying down the thing that they end. 00:33:26
Almost like running into the tail end. 00:33:29
Folks that are trying to stop or or turn into driveways or whatnot, so I'm not sure if that's a great solution. 00:33:32
Caused more problems but. 00:33:38
If you guys could put that in the, I'm sure it's already in there, but. 00:33:41
That's, umm, that's definitely an issue on that. 00:33:45
Thank you. Thank you for your comment. 00:33:49
Anyone. Anyone else? 00:33:52
Commissioners. 00:33:57
If you have a comment. 00:33:58
Would you like to answer some of the questions and from our? 00:34:05
Sure. 00:34:10
From public, yeah. From the public, yeah, I can help a little bit with. 00:34:12
So regarding trying to reduce speed, that's one of the reasons that we are actually proposing decreasing the lane widths on 00:34:16
sunset. So part of that makes people feel a little less comfortable to drive faster. 00:34:24
And then also implementing those, we call them a buffer zone, but that extra white stripe between the bicycling and the lane 00:34:32
itself. 00:34:37
So also feels narrower than it really is. So that is one of the things that we are proposing. The roundabout is definitely not. 00:34:42
Oh, go ahead. 00:34:47
Daniel, could you put? 00:34:53
The PowerPoint back on the screen. 00:34:54
Just so we have a graphic so we can see what you're talking about. You can't all see inside my hand. Well, we can't just. It's 00:34:58
crazy in there though. 00:35:03
That's how it works. There we go. So if we Scroll down a couple. 00:35:09
Here we go. 00:35:20
So we show 11 foot travel lanes in those three foot buffers on the. 00:35:24
Northside and then. 00:35:30
The Class 2 bike lane as well so and then trying to also. 00:35:32
Incorporate some form of a island in the. 00:35:37
You know as much as we can, obviously because of access. So we'll take that into account as well when we start to lay this out for 00:35:41
all the driveways, we want to maintain all that, but where we can, you know, put stamped concrete or some sort of vegetation that 00:35:47
will also help people feel. 00:35:53
A little narrower and then helped slow down. 00:36:00
I'd also like to add 2 on this cross section, the bottom one. 00:36:04
That a lot of those houses on which would be the east side of Sunset, don't currently have sidewalks. Where there's that 00:36:09
opportunity now also with that room is to add sidewalks. 00:36:14
From. 00:36:21
Ave. all the way down to the. 00:36:22
Intersection. 00:36:25
With sidewalks, which will be an improvement at the public meetings, this is what we were hearing that they would the homeowners 00:36:27
there would love to have these sidewalks continuous in front of their properties. 00:36:32
And then it appears that on the high school side you have both sidewalk and. 00:36:40
AI guess you mentioned a class Class 1 bike bike lane, so is that going to be? 00:36:48
That ideally, yes, if we have the width available because it's kind of and also we want to take tree impacts into account too. But 00:36:54
yeah, in an ideal world we're trying to get some sort of I'll call it like landing zone, sidewalk for drop off pickup area 00:37:01
especially and as well as the pathway itself so that then you don't have as much of A mixing zone. 00:37:08
So would it be fair to say? 00:37:18
You know what you're doing is essentially providing traffic calming in that whole area, correct? For that consistent. 00:37:20
Way of dealing. 00:37:27
In problematic areas like you suggested with you suggest with the driveway and yes, things like that, yes exactly. There's 00:37:29
definitely going to be traffic coming as well as upgraded striping the length, right? So higher visibility, easier to see. 00:37:36
With, you know, wet night as well and some additional signing because we have heard some discussions about glare concerns as well 00:37:44
on the corridor and so trying to implement lighting. 00:37:51
Signing and striping. 00:37:58
Mr. Chairman, I've got a series of questions when it would be appropriate. I just have a couple more than. 00:38:00
Sure, if you don't. 00:38:05
This is my last no problem. 00:38:07
So I'm hoping, and I imagine you have consulted with the fire. 00:38:10
To find out as far as their response time in an emergency, which plan, which method? 00:38:14
Would enhance or impede their response time. That is our next step. Yeah we want we would definitely wanted to hear from the 00:38:20
public if there was even an appetite to potentially close Cedar that was kind of a big one for us these last couple meetings and 00:38:25
so now that we've. 00:38:30
Heard that it's on the table. Yeah, we wanna definitely meet with them next. OK. And then my last question is? 00:38:36
I would imagine you've consulted with. 00:38:43
To find out what kind of manpower challenges it would provide. 00:38:46
To have more. 00:38:50
Crossing guards. 00:38:52
We had because then there'll be 4 instead of 1. 00:38:54
I'm wondering what they think. 00:38:58
We had our first meeting with them last week and they're largely in favor of the project just in general because it is going to 00:39:00
include increase safety through here. 00:39:05
But yeah, we did talk about crossing guards and whether or not there's the potential to maybe. 00:39:11
In the future, eliminate one or just to reappropriate 1/2 with what the new geometry ends up doing, but we have not finalized any 00:39:16
of those decisions yet based on the geometry. 00:39:23
Commissioner Brown. 00:39:32
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I've got a series of questions, Miss Anderson, and the first thing I wanted to start with is he showed us 00:39:34
a slide of. 00:39:38
The various accidents that had taken place in that intersection, could we bring that up again? 00:39:43
Right there. 00:39:50
Too fast there, there. 00:39:51
OK. And you said, is this correct, this is from the 2017 to 2022 time period, most recent five years available. We pulled it 00:39:53
December of 2023. But typically these softwares are running about a year behind or so. 00:40:01
For the data, when they did the original study in 2016, did they do the same thing they did? And what can you tell us about the 00:40:09
accidents? They did not show any collisions at the intersection proper. They did show some collisions just adjacent, kind of 00:40:17
similar to what you're seeing in the F and A area on this slide. 00:40:24
The the singular. 00:40:32
F by itself and a by itself just to the. 00:40:34
Up and down stream of the intersection, but there was a fatality at 19th which I know the city is very aware of that just bans 00:40:37
outside. 00:40:41
Again, the five years, it's older than that, so it's not showing on this exhibit. 00:40:46
So I'm sorry it's not showing on this exhibit because you've got a. 00:40:51
F that you've got on here. 00:40:56
It's property damage only. So the the F just corresponds to the type, the collision factor which is following too closely and and 00:40:58
the fatality where did it take place. If you can show it on this. 00:41:05
Which is essentially in the middle of this black line on sunset. 00:41:12
You got the mouse. 00:41:17
Oh, in that area. Oh, up closer to the bigger intersection. Yeah, I see that. Yeah, I see. I see. I'm just trying to get it 00:41:19
pointed out. OK, so let's go back to the. 00:41:24
The collisions that took place here, What do we know about each one of these? You've got them labeled, yes? 00:41:29
So this is hard to see. 00:41:35
The the legend is is blurry. 00:41:39
On our screen. So I'm trying to figure this out. What is the? 00:41:42
So the A stands for automobile right away. 00:41:46
If you look in the middle legend, and so largely with these 10 collisions at the intersection, a large portion of them are 00:41:50
actually broadsides. 00:41:55
So the if it's a hexagon shape, it's a broadside. 00:42:03
And that's that's. 00:42:09
Indicative of a. 00:42:13
Controlled intersection and broad sides are, you know, pretty common with a stop intersection in in. 00:42:15
If this were to move forward into a roundabout design, which is why we're trying to get public information or input into this. 00:42:22
But roundabouts eliminate those broad. 00:42:30
They're greatly reduce them because we don't have those free turns. OK, So we have two broad. 00:42:34
It's all hexagons. 00:42:41
Hexagon. Yeah, so we have hexagons. I can't see. 00:42:43
5A Rear ends or hexagon, sorry. 00:42:49
I just can't. 00:42:53
It's little 6. 00:42:55
Broadside is the six side that sides of the rules or not or there's something else? 00:42:57
You expand the picture a little bit, maybe it would help us. 00:43:02
Sit off the screen. 00:43:06
Yeah, the beauty of them. 00:43:08
That's a lot, Commissioner. Commissioner Brown, if I can just interject. 00:43:11
The shape of the. 00:43:16
Box Boxes isn't now you made it too big, Dan. You can't see it. 00:43:17
There we go. So there's three. There's three different things to look at. Is the shape of the box first. So like if you see the 00:43:25
first one that says the F up on top. 00:43:30
Looks like a Pentagon. 00:43:34
So that's that is a rear end accident. 00:43:36
And then if you look at the. 00:43:40
Which is F Then it says following too closely. 00:43:42
And then the color is the blue, meaning that it is property damage only. 00:43:46
I see. OK, so we have. Does that make sense? Yeah. Three property damage, 34567 property damages in the intersection itself. 00:43:53
Correct. And three injuries, The yellows are injuries. Are those people in cars? 00:44:01
It could be a variety, variety of, yeah, either somebody was injured. 00:44:09
Within the within the collision that occurred because I I think my biggest concern with that intersection are pedestrians. 00:44:14
Mm-hmm. So. 00:44:21
Do we know if any pedestrians were injured in this intersection since between 2017 and 2022? 00:44:23
I can pull that that's not on this exhibit. 00:44:31
Very clearly. 00:44:34
There's no P there though, But these get coded very strangely through, you know how the cops like to do it? Just their system, 00:44:35
right? All of the, as you can see, use peas eyes as fund. But if we're wanting to show that separation between vehicle and 00:44:42
pedestrian, we're happy to update this exhibit to show that as well. 00:44:49
OK. You you also if we go to slide 13. 00:44:57
He said There's a very tight. 00:45:02
If you were to do a four way, it would be very tight for trucks. 00:45:06
Is the present intersection. 00:45:11
Approved for trucks or is it doesn't meet the regulations at this time? 00:45:14
I don't believe. 00:45:21
That it fully meets, but we could also run the turn you. You can see that it would make it today though if you zoom in a second 00:45:23
down on the say on the. 00:45:28
Southside. 00:45:34
The black line work is the truck. 00:45:38
Right. So you can see that they can make it now. 00:45:41
But with installing additional pedestrian enhancements that we've been talking about as part of this project. 00:45:45
That would include shortening those crossings. 00:45:53
That would pull the. 00:45:56
In order to do that. 00:45:59
And then that's where the truck turns. Don't quite work. 00:46:01
I've got a 14 for. Could I ask another question real quick? That one size trailer you see these are articulated, but what size 00:46:05
trailer are you using for this particular example? So this one's a WB50 truck, which is more commonly like your. 00:46:14
Your bigger Safeway delivery truck, so it's not you know the the smaller you know FedEx box truck, it's kind of that next size up. 00:46:23
So one of the other considerations. 00:46:32
Is Hayward. 00:46:35
So they often get very large trucks, much larger than actually can fit on the existing. 00:46:37
Streets. So they're something to take into account because there's really not a not a better way for them to get down to Hayward 00:46:45
Lumber. 00:46:49
So if you had too much of A constraint to the swollen location. 00:46:55
A challenge? 00:46:59
Yeah. And so one of Sunset proper, right, being the state route as well that will be required to accommodate a Cal Legal, so the 00:47:03
larger, larger truck. 00:47:08
Just from Caltrans side of the house, that's what they'll make us do and you know when you're referring to the different 00:47:15
standards. 00:47:17
Kind of meat, Al. 00:47:21
Highway Design Manual. 00:47:26
Correct. And then if if it's any consolidation, normally it's an even bigger truck that they require, but State Route 68 has been 00:47:30
downgraded to still a very, very large truck, but just not the maximum allowable through the fence. 00:47:38
Yeah. So it couldn't we continue on on slide 14 for a second? 00:47:47
Thank you, Mr. G. 00:47:57
I actually maybe it's the next one. 00:47:59
Oh, no. I guess it is this one. I'm sorry. Let's go back. 00:48:04
114 again. 00:48:07
So one of these configurations discusses and I do new I'm I have heard the. 00:48:11
Public comment that the people are on Cedar would just be just happy to. 00:48:19
You know put an end to their St. there and not go into this, but one of them has a part of cedar going into. 00:48:23
Congress. 00:48:32
The the far right option, yeah. 00:48:35
That that just looks really problematic. 00:48:38
And again, it's trying to see what we can do. What, what's, umm. 00:48:42
Viable to try to get bi directional, so if we were trying to get both directions of cedar. 00:48:47
To continue. 00:48:55
We really can't bring 2 directions of cedar into the roundabout because of the closeness to Congress. So that's the reason that 00:48:56
that outside the box idea even showed up. 00:49:02
Again, trying to get feedback to see maybe we discount it entirely based on what we're hearing. 00:49:08
But that's essentially what it would take to get some sort of continuation both ways, OK. So considering the public comment that 00:49:14
we heard is, is it correct that? 00:49:19
What they're saying is that they like the. 00:49:25
Access option. 00:49:28
Would that be correct? But that's the consensus we were gathering last night. We've yet to really tally up a bunch of that 00:49:32
information and put it. 00:49:36
And started to begin to document it, but that is correct and we're also working on. 00:49:41
Survey, which we're going to send out just to these residents that are within this proximity. 00:49:46
To try to just. 00:49:52
Thor their. 00:49:55
Initially. 00:49:58
That's very helpful. If that were to be done, then you would you would be able to consider both the roundabout and a four. 00:50:00
Stop sign. 00:50:09
Solution potentially. Is that right? 00:50:11
He cut off cider. 00:50:13
Yes, that's the only way that we could further look at a stop sign. 00:50:15
It's eliminating cedar. And why don't we go to 16 for me? 00:50:21
OK, so 16 is really. 00:50:31
The markup of the consideration of a roundabout correct one of the concerns. One of the concerns I've had. 00:50:35
You know, this is right by the school. And you know, people walk by my house, they walk up Congress, they walk up various places. 00:50:44
The kids are, you know, have to cross somewhere. 00:50:49
The present time you have the crossing guards and you just have. 00:50:54
Is generally, I guess. I've seen on the on. 00:50:58
Intersection of Congress? 00:51:01
And sunset. 00:51:05
And now you're going to have four or more. 00:51:07
Places to cross. You've got, let's say one by the school over towards. 00:51:12
What used to be the laundry, They went from the laundry over across the street. Then you've got across the street. 00:51:17
Well, Cedars cut off, then you don't have that problem, but then you've still. 00:51:22
Across. 00:51:27
And then from sunset to Congress. 00:51:29
And you've got people now that are going to be driving around this. 00:51:35
At some rate of speed and bicycles. 00:51:39
Isn't there some some concern about? 00:51:46
Just creating more of an opportunity for. 00:51:49
A little second. 00:51:56
Get your Rich Deal traffic. 00:52:00
One of the things about roundabouts and pedestrian crossings, especially single lane roundabouts. 00:52:04
Is. 00:52:09
The actual pedestrian crossing goes from. 00:52:11
A long crosswalk. 00:52:15
With multi lanes and multi threats from turning movements in several directions to. 00:52:19
Crossing a single lane at a time. 00:52:25
With One Direction of traffic coming from pedestrians left. 00:52:28
And by having. 00:52:33
Walkways separated from the the intersection. 00:52:35
There's really good sight lines for a positive interaction between the driver and the pedestrian. 00:52:40
Deciding when to cross and then there's median space or refuge area in the splitter island that is big enough for a pedestrian and 00:52:48
a bike, so it's usually 6 feet minimum. We'd like to make it a little. 00:52:54
And then when they get to the that median again, they're faced with a single. 00:53:00
Conflict coming from their right on the approach. 00:53:06
To the roundabout, the other thing that makes the pedestrian crossing. 00:53:10
With roundabouts is that the crosswalks are pulled back about 25 feet, so there's one car length. 00:53:15
Downstream of the crosswalk on the approach. So if you're going down Sunset toward a Sylmar. 00:53:24
There's one car. 00:53:31
Past the crosswalk so that the driver who's at the limit line or the entry line who's waiting to enter the roundabout. 00:53:34
They're looking at traffic circulating around from the left. They're not having to look at a pedestrian conflict coming from the 00:53:42
right. 00:53:46
Is what happens at. 00:53:51
Always stops and traffic signals. That's why we get crashes at those type of. 00:53:53
You know, normalized T intersection. Can I stop here? Right there, because I don't really see that. Let's say I'm coming down 00:53:58
sunset. 00:54:01
OK, I get to the intersection with Cedar and I've stopped with. 00:54:05
You know orange? 00:54:10
Arrow. 00:54:11
Yes, I can see people coming across from. 00:54:14
Towards the entrance to Congress. But there will be also people coming from Congress going the other way, wouldn't there? 00:54:19
Well sure, but remember because of the offset with the crosswalk. 00:54:26
There isn't a turning movement. 00:54:32
Immediately at. 00:54:35
The limit line. 00:54:37
That's going to impact a pedestrian because the crosswalk is set. 00:54:39
So the crossing is separated from the intersection movements or the roundabout movements. So let's say you're coming down Congress 00:54:42
from. 00:54:47
The elementary school You make a right into the roundabout, and then you're going to make a right into onto sunset and head toward 00:54:52
the forest. 00:54:56
As you. 00:55:01
Around that. 00:55:03
And you're getting ready to make a right? 00:55:05
You have a single conflict that you're looking at, which is that pedestrian who's getting ready to cross or who's already crossing 00:55:07
that. 00:55:11
14 to 16 foot length, it's very, very. 00:55:15
As opposed to what we have now which is 100 feet of. 00:55:19
Crosswalk that someone's got to traverse the entire length. So how does that, how does that translate to a crossing guard? Well, a 00:55:23
crossing guard is crossing. 00:55:28
A lot shorter distance and they can be in the splitter, island and control. 00:55:34
Both. 00:55:39
At the same time, because it's a much. 00:55:40
Narrower area. 00:55:42
And it has such a. 00:55:44
A clear and intuitive interaction between the driver and the pedestrian that it's a simpler. 00:55:47
Action. So as the pedestrian makes eye contact, they start cross. 00:55:53
A driver who's circulating at 20 miles an hour. 00:55:58
Instead of accelerating off of the stop. 00:56:02
Line further. 00:56:04
The driver that's accelerating or that's driving about 20 miles an hour around the roundabout, it's pretty easy for them to slow 00:56:06
and stop. 00:56:10
For the pedestrian in the crosswalk, even if the crossing guard's not there, so during all those rest of the times of the day when 00:56:14
the crossing guard isn't there, there's still really positive. 00:56:20
Pedestrian access across that crosswalk in the round. 00:56:26
OK, so let me give you a scenario because I'm looking at this now you come down. 00:56:30
Sunset, You get to the intersection. 00:56:36
By Cedar. 00:56:39
You're then you're then having to actually, if you're in the car, you have to actually look two ways at least. 00:56:41
Why? Why? Because you've got traffic coming from your left hand side as you enter into. 00:56:47
The roundabout, yes. And where else? 00:56:52
And well, where else he? Well, I'm, you know, I know they're pedestrians that may be walking one way or the other, but they're 00:56:55
behind you, right? 00:56:59
No, because you've got it. You're stopping right here, aren't you? As you're coming across this crosswalk. Blue represents the 00:57:04
pedestrian pathway. Yeah, Rich is describing that's right as as you're crossing the pedestrian. 00:57:10
Pathway. You're going to be looking at pedestrians one way or both ways and then you're also going to be looking ahead if if. 00:57:17
The kind of driver that I think most people are to see if there are any cars coming from your left. 00:57:24
So I mean, wouldn't that distract? 00:57:29
Potentially seeing the pedestrians, No, because the pedestrians that are in the crosswalks on. 00:57:33
Congress. 00:57:40
Are downstream from the actual roundabout circulatory roadway. 00:57:42
So if you were. 00:57:48
Go down sunset about when you cross from the sunset to Congress. Are we talking about the same thing? Yeah. 00:57:50
Widely downstream, it doesn't look downstream to me. It's 25 feet downstream. It's downstream so that the driver has one conflict 00:57:57
to work with at a time. 00:58:02
I see you're saying action. You're saying that you've now moved the pedestrian walkway back. 00:58:08
Up Sunset, is that right? OK, so you're saying they would first see that before they would have to enter the intersection where 00:58:14
they would then be looking at the cars? 00:58:19
I think downstream prior. 00:58:25
Better language. I think I can see it that way. So prior to the roundabout. 00:58:29
You have the limit line, you stop and then you have the cross. 00:58:34
All you're looking at the. 00:58:38
And there's nothing more. 00:58:40
Right. And one of the things that has came up last night is there are other ways to even add more. 00:58:41
We can add lighting. We will add lighting. That's part of the minimum requirements. But we can also add some flashing beacons, 00:58:51
some additional signage, because we know that this is such a heavy pedestrian area, right? So there are other tools that we can 00:58:56
add. 00:59:00
To support seeing that just one decision at a time to riches point, right. 00:59:04
OK. So let me ask you another question. So as you're coming, as people are coming out. 00:59:10
From going around the roundabout. 00:59:16
And then continuing on the road. 00:59:19
Aren't they? So they they would have to be aware that the pedestrians actually, as they're accelerating out of. 00:59:24
Roundabout would be vulnerable, so they'd have to slow down again. 00:59:31
If they see a pedestrian getting ready to cross, they would slow down. 00:59:37
Yes, absolutely. And again, there's another car link so that if they do need to slow down and stop for a pedestrian to cross, then 00:59:42
the roundabout can function behind them. 00:59:47
And yeah, there's enough for the, I was going to say so there's enough room. So they're not going to be sticking their **** back 00:59:54
to the traffic. Then you could really pile it up there. But this is a really good, this is a really good intuitive. 01:00:02
Item. And that is what happens if a car in the roundabout stops. Yeah, and. 01:00:09
Forces other cars in the roundabout to stop also. 01:00:15
They all kind of. 01:00:20
And when that person who? 01:00:22
Ready to go? Maybe they're fearful. Maybe it's their first time. They can't figure it out. When they finally figure it out and go, 01:00:24
guess what? 01:00:27
Everybody else goes and there's going to be a learning curve, just like there was up on Holman Highway. There's gonna be. 01:00:30
A little bit of frustration, but the roundabout will take on its own kind of character. 01:00:38
And folks. 01:00:43
Naturally. 01:00:45
Drive it in a way that is comfortable. And so our job as designers, especially Heather's, is to get all everyone of those little 01:00:46
geometric curves dialed in so that the speed is very predictable and it runs smoothly. And I I'm thinking you're going to be 01:00:54
bringing a Visim run. Yeah. So. And you know she'll have some turning movements showing the fire truck going through. We'll have 01:01:02
in the VCM, she'll probably show some bike riders taking a lane in the roundabout. So they just. 01:01:10
Which is actually very comfortable to do up at the home and higher one. I ride my bike through there and. 01:01:18
I'm not a great bike. 01:01:24
And it's very simple, because as a bike rider I'm going closer to the speed of regular traffic circulating. 01:01:26
Than I am at in always stop that has a really large. 01:01:34
Intersection because drivers are accelerating and I'm just kind of getting going through, so you'll see a much more cooperative 01:01:40
interaction between bikes. 01:01:44
Pedestrians and DRI. 01:01:50
Can I go, I have one one more question, the blue lines on here, is that where you're putting new sidewalks in? Is that what those 01:01:52
are? 01:01:55
Yes, the dark blue is kind of everything right, but the the teal line is the the mixing zone, but definitely sidewalks and it's a 01:01:59
larger shared use path. So for those cyclists that don't feel comfortable being in the lane, they have an opportunity to exit on a 01:02:04
bike. 01:02:09
And then be on a shared use wide path that's at least 10 foot wide. 01:02:15
I have a follow up question for that. I saw on another slide you also have sidewalks, so adjacent like there's DG and then you 01:02:20
also have. 01:02:24
Mixed-use so there will be a place for pedestrians to go. 01:02:29
Are not mixed, is that correct? On Sunset, that's the plan. Within the roundabout, it's typical that it's more. 01:02:33
Just that larger shared path. 01:02:41
And we are limited on space in that intersection, so. 01:02:44
In an ideal world, we end up with 16 foot paths everywhere, right? And we delineate it for separate uses, but we don't really have 01:02:49
the room at this intersection to do that. Thank you. 01:02:54
Hey, Commissioner Green. 01:03:01
My grandkids go to school there. 01:03:02
And so this looks and complicated, but I've done a lot of writing in Colorado and there's a lot of roundabouts there. 01:03:05
And I've always felt on the bike you're very, very comfortable. 01:03:14
You've throwing up the traffic. 01:03:18
And. 01:03:21
Measures anyone? 01:03:25
Any other questions, any comments? Yeah, I just want to say thank you so much. I think you guys are being thoughtful with the 01:03:26
curves and adding vegetation to make sure that we can slow down traffic because I think all of. 01:03:33
You feel like traffic goes pretty quickly there and so finding ways to narrow the lanes and add. 01:03:40
Good practices, especially the Safe Routes to School. I'm excited to see that. 01:03:48
I agree with Commissioner Greening that. 01:03:53
Having the rotaries and roundabouts are great for cyclists as well. 01:03:57
So thank you. 01:04:02
You know, thank you very much, really appreciate it. And my personal experience with roundabouts was in St. George, UT. 01:04:05
Where they have quite a few of them and found them very confusing at first, but then as you said, there's a learning curve. 01:04:11
And, you know, feel pretty. 01:04:17
And we appreciate you accepting our questions and public comment. 01:04:21
And look forward to hearing more about. 01:04:25
Thank you. I would just like to add that as we do progress through the process, the traffic Commission is going to be our 01:04:28
opportunity to bring it forward that allows the public to come and express. 01:04:34
Their opinions, Their thoughts? 01:04:41
Their attaboys, whatever they want to give us as we progress. So this won't be the last time that this project is before this 01:04:43
Commission. By no means, Mr. Chairman, can I ask just a couple of more questions and not necessarily of Miss Anderson. 01:04:50
I also would notice that Mister Go that you got you got some coverage in the pine cone. 01:04:59
Not this week, but last week. 01:05:05
And I was in discussion about this project ultimately costing. 01:05:07
$10 million is that. 01:05:11
It's yet to be determined because we haven't truly identified a project that we're going to be constructing. 01:05:15
No, I understand that. But obviously that came from somewhere, so I did not specify that, so I'm not sure where they got that in a 01:05:23
previous. 01:05:27
Staff reported specified that roundabouts could cost upwards of. 01:05:32
$10 million and I believe that's what the roundabout at Highway. 01:05:36
One and 68 cost. So I believe that that reporter. 01:05:40
Might have snagged that figure. 01:05:45
That roundabout This roundabout is nothing like the one. 01:05:48
This potential roundabout is nothing like the one that's on highway. 01:05:52
68 They redid all the off ramps and on ramps to the freeway and all of those Pebble Beach entrances to accommodate that 01:05:56
intersection. 01:06:01
Quite elaborate. 01:06:08
One other question, because this is a pretty busy intersection and it has a major impact on the way the kids get to school. How 01:06:09
long would this project? 01:06:14
Take once the construction. 01:06:20
If you have any, any any estimates on that, maybe you don't, I'm going to pass that the Ray Choose constructed a few of these 01:06:24
things, but I think that the construction should be somewhat quick. We're not doing a lot of below ground. 01:06:31
Yeah, thanks. So when you construct A roundabout, you basically construct the edges first. 01:06:40
And those sidewalks and things that move people around, so traffic is running in a normal, well, I shouldn't say normal in the 01:06:46
current always stop control. 01:06:51
And then from that stage it moves into some of the more difficult areas, the splitter islands and some of the other things. And 01:06:56
what I found is the the best way to construct it is. 01:07:02
You take the most invasive part of the work. 01:07:09
And you try and cram that into a short amount of time, 2-3 weeks a month. 01:07:13
And you make sure everybody knows what's coming, what to expect, when the closures are, what the detours are on and on and on and 01:07:18
you try and pick that. 01:07:22
Time period during the year when? 01:07:27
It's not the. 01:07:29
Umm, frustrating for visitors and commercial traffic and other types of things. 01:07:31
And you do that and then traffic opens up and you start doing the other things that are. 01:07:38
You know, finishing up the project that would take the remaining three or four months to to do so it's not that the total length 01:07:44
of time is an issue, it's really. 01:07:49
Like open heart surgery, once you start you know the patient is not getting up off the table until they're done. So you try and 01:07:54
pick that in the time frame during the year that. 01:07:58
It's going to be the most, pal. 01:08:02
So do you think they're gonna be done over a summer? 01:08:04
I think the whole project will probably be because it is in the state right away. It'll probably be about a year, but it won't 01:08:07
feel like a year. When we have those closures, it'll be, I'm guessing a shorter few week. 01:08:15
Time frame and it is possible, if our budget allows, to do night work and things that help accelerate. 01:08:23
The construction and and reduce the pain. 01:08:30
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Appreciate it. Thank you very much. 01:08:36
OK, Item E report from subcommittee. 01:08:40
Commissioner. 01:08:44
Thank you. We we did have a. 01:08:46
Zoom call last week with. 01:08:50
The Chief Commander Anderson. 01:08:55
Director Go and. 01:09:00
Commissioner Stern and Brown and myself to discuss our recommendations. 01:09:02
In order to meet the goals that we presented to the. 01:09:09
Full Commission at our previous meeting. 01:09:13
And so we're still, we're still working on that and we expect actually next week at least. 01:09:16
To the Commissioners and myself to to have another meeting and. 01:09:25
And try to throw them down into. 01:09:30
Something to bring back to the Commission. Not sure if we'll bring it back in February, but that's. 01:09:34
We'll have a better idea next week. 01:09:41
Thank you. Thank you so much. 01:09:43
Any other comments from the commissioners? 01:09:46
Good to go anything further. 01:09:50
No, Sir. I look forward to coming back and being able to answer any questions at that time. Chief, if you're still on any comment? 01:09:52
Yeah, of course. I'm still here. Yeah. I just would like to thank you, Mr. Chair, for your service to the Traffic Safety 01:10:01
Commission. I know it's been a pleasure working with you on our end. I'm sure Mr. Go has the same sentiment. And thank you for 01:10:07
volunteering your valuable time. We really appreciate it. 01:10:13
Thank you, Chief. It's been my honor to serve. 01:10:20
My last say is the meeting is adjourned. 01:10:23
511 And I want to thank you too. So thank you Mr. Thank you. Thank you so much. Great job. Appreciate it. 01:10:27
All right. Have a great night. 01:10:37
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Welcome to the. 00:00:01
City of Pacific Grove Traffic Safety. 00:00:03
Meeting for January the 23rd 2024 Welcome Commissioners. 00:00:06
City staff council member and. 00:00:11
Present and online. 00:00:14
The first item will be a roll call. 00:00:17
Good afternoon. 00:00:23
Mr. Chair, we'll start off with the chairman of. 00:00:25
President sorry. 00:00:31
Commissioners Gundy. 00:00:35
You all unmute yourselves when you are speaking and talking to the mic. 00:00:39
The commissioners. 00:00:45
Can you hear me? 00:00:50
Yes, thank you, Commissioner. 00:00:52
Here. 00:00:59
Thank you, Commissioner Brown. 00:01:01
Here, Commissioner. 00:01:04
Yeah. 00:01:09
Commissioner Sham. 00:01:12
She is absent. 00:01:20
Absent, OK and Commissioner Pro. 00:01:22
Here, thank you. 00:01:25
Yeah, we have a quorum, Sir. 00:01:29
Thank you, Chief. 00:01:31
And first item is approval of the agenda. 00:01:33
And before we proceed, I'd like. 00:01:37
That 6. 00:01:41
C Which is election of officers for the 2024-2025? 00:01:45
Be continued to the February. 00:01:51
And I call for. 00:01:55
Second, the motion. 00:01:57
Top of the book. 00:02:01
OK, I will second the motion please. 00:02:04
Yeah, Commissioner. 00:02:08
Thank you. Why? 00:02:10
Off the agenda? 00:02:14
So right, I have been honored to serve as your Commissioner and. 00:02:16
Colleague, this is my last. 00:02:20
And I'm hoping that there'll be an. 00:02:23
Commissioner appointed by. 00:02:27
Or the February meeting. 00:02:29
And I think it would be in the best int. 00:02:31
Of the Commission to defer it for that reason alone. 00:02:33
And I think it's it's typical that the that the commissions and boards don't vote for new officers until the February meeting. 00:02:40
Thank you. Appreciate it. No problem. Quick question. 00:02:48
OK, we'll take a vote. 00:02:52
Chairman Flores. 00:02:55
Commissioners. 00:03:00
Turn. 00:03:03
Brown. 00:03:07
Yes. 00:03:09
Greening. 00:03:11
Brock. 00:03:15
Brock. 00:03:23
Thank you. And Thomas is absent that passed. 00:03:28
So we'll move 660 will be. 00:03:32
Moved to the February. 00:03:36
Thank you. 00:03:40
Thank you. 00:03:42
Item number three, approval of. 00:03:46
Minutes for the Traffic Safety Commission meeting of November the 24th, The meeting for prepared by Commissioner Lester Brown. 00:03:48
Any comments on the Minutes? 00:03:58
I move that we approve the Minutes as submitted. 00:04:02
I'll second that. 00:04:06
We have a look and I have greening on that, so we'll take a vote, Commissioner Gunby. 00:04:09
Aye, raining. 00:04:17
Brock. 00:04:26
Think, he said. 00:04:32
Brown. 00:04:33
Dern. 00:04:38
And chair. 00:04:41
Yes, OK, that. 00:04:44
6:00 to 1:00. 00:04:48
60. 00:04:50
Public comment. 00:05:04
Just one second general. 00:05:06
General public comment must deal with matters subject to the jurisdiction of. 00:05:08
And the Traffic Safety Commission that are not on the regular. 00:05:12
Comments from the public will be limited to 3 minutes and will not receive Traffic Safety Commission action. 00:05:16
Comments regarding items on the regular. 00:05:21
Shall be heard prior to the Traffic Safety Commission's consideration. 00:05:24
Of such items. 00:05:28
Such items. 00:05:29
Whenever possible, written correspondence should be submitted to the Traffic Safety Commission in advance of the meeting. 00:05:31
To provide adequate time for its consideration. 00:05:38
So at this time I would ask. 00:05:44
I would like to make a comment on the written comments. First I would like to thank. 00:05:47
Public Works director Go for having the. 00:05:54
Crosswalk Repainted or painted at the intersection of Central and Fountain. 00:05:58
As requested. 00:06:04
And then I would also like for our next meeting for. 00:06:07
Public Works director go to be prepared to discuss adding a stop sign on. 00:06:12
Lighthouse at forest. 00:06:20
Lighthouse. 00:06:23
Thanks. 00:06:27
Commissioner. 00:06:31
Before we move on to public. 00:06:34
Regarding this, may I just ask a quick clarifying question, Sir? 00:06:36
Chair Commissioner Gumby, do you know which of the emails that that refers to? I think I numbered them all. 00:06:41
Yeah, I don't. I don't have them printed out. And well, hang on, maybe I do have them printed out over here. I'm being with the 2 00:06:49
letters written regarding the stop sign at Lighthouse and Forest Green. 00:06:55
Good time since our. 00:07:01
That's correct. One from Bo Thomas and one from Kathy Kirkley. 00:07:04
We're both about. 00:07:10
And #5 got it. Thank you, Sir. 00:07:13
Beth Shamas. 00:07:18
Had the concern about sunset. 00:07:20
Or excuse me, that wrong one, Don and Noreen. 00:07:23
OK. 00:07:37
OK. 00:07:40
Chief, do you need any? 00:07:46
Comments from Commissioner. 00:07:48
I just he just chair gonna be just to Commissioner Gummy. I'm sorry. Just to clarify you said the stop signs at Lighthouse and 00:07:50
Forest and Lighthouse and Congress. 00:07:56
And those four emails were from. 00:08:01
Kirkley and from. 00:08:05
Thomas And then you said something just now about *****. What, what is that referring to? Is that something you also unfold? 00:08:07
Yeah. And I I. 00:08:14
About Beau Thomas, it's Kathy Kirk. 00:08:18
Commented about lighthouse. 00:08:22
And Don and Noreen ***** also commented about Forest and Lighthouse. 00:08:25
And then Diana Howell through. 00:08:30
Council member Coletti made a comment about Congress and light. 00:08:34
OK. Thank you for the clarification. 00:08:41
Hey, Public. 00:08:45
From the audience, OK. 00:08:48
There's just so everyone's aware there's one member of the public online. 00:08:52
I don't know how many are there in person, but if anybody in person wants to come forward, please do. 00:08:58
It appears we have 5 neigh. 00:09:05
Present Would anybody like to make a public comment for? 00:09:08
OK, how about our? 00:09:12
Neighbor. 00:09:15
We have one neighbor online. Would you like to speak, miss? 00:09:19
I see no hands. 00:09:25
Yep. She raised her hands. Hang on. 00:09:28
Hey, Miss Garcia, you have the floor. 00:09:34
No, I'm sorry. 00:09:36
No, I I have nothing to say. Thank you. 00:09:39
OK. Well, we're glad to have you here. Thanks for attending. 00:09:43
See. 00:09:51
Commission and staff announce. 00:09:53
Commissioners, any announcements? 00:09:58
The minutes for the January meeting will be prepared by Commissioner Stern. 00:10:04
We appreciate. 00:10:09
And our council member. 00:10:11
Emilio is present. 00:10:15
Would you like? 00:10:17
Greetings. 00:10:28
We had a council meeting a couple weeks ago and. 00:10:30
A chair unit, Forest said. There's going to be. 00:10:35
We approved quite a few commissioners through the mayor and they were all approved. 00:10:39
In in reappointments and appointments. 00:10:46
We also. 00:10:51
Two appeals, 270 Central Which? 00:10:55
That was, it was denied for the city on 270 Central, and at 1:10 Central was another location of an additional addition, and that 00:11:01
was denied for for the city and. 00:11:09
And that was the that took up a lot of the meeting because there's a way of you have to listen to the appeal and everything. So 00:11:18
there were two there, there was 2 closed session items, but according to the city attorney, there was no reportable action. 00:11:26
That's it. 00:11:34
Thank you very much. OK. 00:11:35
We report. 00:11:37
Team emceeing bike and pedestrian committee member Commissioner Katie Stern. 00:11:39
Will report on recent updates and actions. 00:11:44
Any comments on the Salinas safe route to schools? 00:11:47
And other items of interest to the T. 00:11:51
I don't have anything to report this week regarding the TMC meeting in January as. 00:11:55
Out of town, but Commissioner Lester Brown is up for being approved by the Tamsi board at the end of January as an alternate 00:12:03
representative for the city of Pacific Grove. 00:12:07
Thank you. Thank you very much. 00:12:12
Public hearings. 00:12:15
Unfinished business Cedar Sunset in Con. 00:12:17
Intersection improvement project. 00:12:20
Thank you, Chair Floors and members of the Traffic Safety Commission we're excited to be finally bringing. 00:12:25
This project forward to you today we've had two public. 00:12:32
Meetings on this one at Jen on January 9th that was held at Chautauqua Hall. We had about 30 members of the public present for 00:12:36
that meeting and then we followed up that meeting with the. 00:12:42
Public meeting last night that was held at the High School Library, Pacific Grove High School Library. We had 27 or so members of 00:12:49
the public. 00:12:54
President for that meeting last night. 00:13:00
I'm just giving a real quick intro, so. 00:13:03
The City of Pacific Grove has entered into an agreement with transportation agency from Monterey County to fund this potential 00:13:06
intersection safety improvement project, which was at Congress Sunset and Cedar. That five leg intersection it's been deemed as. 00:13:16
A precarious intersection that could maybe have some work done. We've hired the city. 00:13:26
Has higher G. 00:13:33
And this is Miss Heather Anderson. 00:13:36
To help. 00:13:38
Navigate the challenging process that Caltrans lays forward. 00:13:41
And I state that that way because this is highway. 00:13:48
And it's on the Caltrans. 00:13:51
Right away, Caltrans. Right away comes. 00:13:54
All the way Salinas 68, right? 00:13:57
All the way through. 00:13:59
The Monterey corridor down the hill and it ends at a Sylmar State Parks. 00:14:02
At the gate of a Sylmar so silly Mart Linux. So we have to go through their permitting process. 00:14:07
And it's. 00:14:13
So we hire experts to help us. 00:14:15
So today, Heather is going to be presenting. 00:14:18
To the Traffic Safety Commission, the project, as we have done at the two community meetings, but this gives us an opportunity to 00:14:22
bring it before a Board of Commission on. 00:14:27
Very formal setting. That's record. 00:14:33
And will allow members of the public. 00:14:36
Ask questions or not really ask questions but provide comments. Questions were the two public meetings and then provide the 00:14:40
opportunity for the Commission to ask questions. 00:14:46
Of myself, Heather, Josh. Her. 00:14:51
And our traffic engine. 00:14:55
Mr. Rich Steele, who knows all about traffic circles. 00:14:58
Probably won't be hearing too much for me, except if it's something about the city process. 00:15:03
Sounds like you'll get your opportunity next month, Lester. OK. With that being said, I'm going to queue up the presentation for 00:15:11
Heather. 00:15:15
Let me share my screen. 00:15:19
Bear with me. 00:15:25
Damn, there we go. 00:15:36
OK. Heather, all you. 00:15:41
This is a quick three. 00:15:50
But this presentation is kind of combination of the first two public outreach meetings that we've had to date. So it kind of 00:15:54
blended the presentation we had at the first meeting and the some of the input we received and as well as last night's meeting, 00:16:03
they were actually just boards to have people be able to freely and ask openly questions right and get some answers. 00:16:11
So with that, I'll go to the. 00:16:20
So just a brief presentation on kind of why we're here, how this came about. There was actually a study done back in 2016 for 00:16:25
those of you that were involved in that and then kind of where we're at right now currently and again part of what Daniels 00:16:30
mentioning is. 00:16:35
It's very important that we do this basis of information from the public. 00:16:41
At the beginning. That way we know we're designing the right project. 00:16:47
And it also helps us navigate the Caltrans process much easier because we know that that's the alternative that we want to move 00:16:51
forward with. So we're doing a lot of front end work purposefully to make sure it's the right design and that it makes the 00:16:56
Caltrans process go smoother. 00:17:01
So again, the 2016 study that was completed, that was a effort combined between the city, Caltrans, TMC, they're all involved in 00:17:10
that. 00:17:15
But it was looking at really Hwy. 68 as a whole. It wasn't just this section of the corridor. 00:17:21
Next slide and out of that study something then I know no one's going to be surprised by, but these were the existing challenges 00:17:28
that were identified at sunset and Congress and cedar intersection as well as on sunset between cedar and Congress to forest. 00:17:37
So congestion concerns, obviously complex intersection issues. There's school crossing concerns, and there's a lot of sidewalk and 00:17:46
bicycle facility gaps. 00:17:51
So these were the concepts that were shown in that plan. So obviously about almost 8 years old at this point, but this really left 00:17:58
it open-ended that further discussion need to be had for what the right alternative would be weighing environmental impacts, right 00:18:05
of way impacts and you know maximizing safety at that intersection. But really could it be a four way stop or potentially a 00:18:12
roundabout? 00:18:18
And then as far as the corridor itself went, that's what that bottom section is showing. 00:18:26
So as we started to dive into this project for our phase that was funded through TMC. 00:18:33
In the city. 00:18:40
Hiring us on board for this. So really the existing condition is what's shown at the top and we wanted to look at what the 00:18:43
previous concept showed unfortunately. 00:18:47
That would require some additional, right? 00:18:52
At least five feet. And we know that there's already a lot of room to play with on this section of Sunset, so we wanted to see 00:18:55
what else. 00:18:59
We might be able to come up with based on public input as well. 00:19:03
And. 00:19:07
Didn't. 00:19:09
Fill all the sidewalk gaps or help with the school frontage. 00:19:11
So there's some limitation that was previously shown. 00:19:16
Next, so our current project is this pink boundary. That doesn't mean that we're going to make improvements everywhere in this 00:19:20
pink boundary. It's just that, you know, anything we do on sunset, we need to also make sure how it interrelates with forest 00:19:26
that's adjacent or cedar in Congress. 00:19:33
Itself, but that was one of the questions we got from the public meeting. So wanted to clarify that that doesn't mean that changes 00:19:40
are happening in this entire pink area, It just means we're evaluating how changes on sunset could impact this whole pink area. 00:19:47
This is a very lengthy purpose and need that we've been working through with TMC. 00:19:57
But to summarize really the purpose of this project. 00:20:02
Is to. 00:20:05
Safety and mobility for all modes. So that's really the root of the. 00:20:08
Why we're? 00:20:12
So the scope again, that's the pretty pink boundary. 00:20:16
And looking at intersection upgrade at Congress, Cedar and sunset. 00:20:20
Improving the crossing at. 00:20:26
Which we know just recently got a little bit of an upgrade, but we want to make sure any of the sunset improvements we make are 00:20:28
taking that into account and then all the way to Forest. So again we have to adhere to Caltrans requirements, which include. 00:20:36
Certain level size truck and bus turns. For the roundabout specifically, we have to design for fast. 00:20:44
So making sure. 00:20:52
We slow folks down before they come into it through geometry and design features. 00:20:54
We want to make sure we're again, we're providing safety and access for all modes and looking to minimize impacts. We don't want 00:21:00
to hurt trees and. 00:21:04
Take right away that we don't need to. 00:21:08
So this again is kind of the current typical section that is on the table right now and was shown to the public last night. We got 00:21:12
a lot of really good feedback. The top is what's out there today and then the bottom is showing typically trying to preserve 00:21:19
parking where possible, still on the high school side. 00:21:25
And potentially including a multi use path or class one path so along that drop off and pick up zone. 00:21:33
And potentially a Class 2 bike lane on the opposing side of traffic for those that don't, you know, want to just be able to go 00:21:43
through on sunset. 00:21:48
And obviously taking right away considerations into account, but based on the feedback we've heard, this is what we'll use to 00:21:54
start actually laying some line work. 00:21:58
In the computer and see what fits. 00:22:04
So we did pull the new the latest collision data for this area. It goes a bit again outside that pink area because wanting to look 00:22:09
at traffic implications if Cedar were to be closed. 00:22:16
As that previous study showed as an alternative. So that's why you see going even further to the north with the collision data. 00:22:23
But what is showing? It's the most recent five year data and the system is always about a year behind. So we pulled it in December 00:22:33
of 20. 00:22:37
But this is about 2017 through 2022 information on collisions there. 00:22:42
And there have been nine at that Congress Cedar intersection. 00:22:48
In the most, you know, recent five years, three of which were injury, and you could go so far as saying that intersection also had 00:22:53
something to do with the other two. 00:22:58
That aren't, you know, the long laundry list. So about. 00:23:03
At or around this intersection. So we know that there's an issue here, and we'd like to start to look at solutions to solve that 00:23:08
problem. 00:23:11
There's obviously some challenges that'll again back to available space and wanting to preserve trees and right of way and limit 00:23:17
impacts in the school adjacent. 00:23:23
In the apartment on the north. 00:23:29
West Corner. 00:23:32
So we started to lay out a preliminary 4 way stop since that was one of the alternatives originally considered. 00:23:38
And also something that has been coming up in the public meetings that we've been having. 00:23:46
And it's very tight, right? It's. 00:23:50
It's got some limitations and what we ran here you can see in black. 00:23:56
Is a WB50 truck. 00:24:01
Which is not necessarily the size truck that Caltrans would require. It's much smaller. But because those are, it's really the 00:24:04
access to and from Congress. 00:24:09
We didn't want to, you know, put the behemoth on here, but it's still not really working. So a local delivery truck wouldn't fit 00:24:13
in this scenario. 00:24:18
And we don't really have enough space in this design to account for like passageways and in refuge areas for pedestrians. 00:24:24
So it doesn't. 00:24:35
Currently meet the way the purpose and need has been written, but it is still an alternative that we want to throw out there to 00:24:37
show what it looks like. 00:24:40
So for the roundabout alternatives, my unlovingly calling this the peanut about or the kidney bean. 00:24:46
But wanting to use the available space. 00:24:52
To our benefit. And so the shape is not as circular, but it's so that we can pick up all those different approaching roads. 00:24:57
Correctly and meet all those Caltrans metrics and require. 00:25:05
There are still 3 versions though that you're seeing on the screen, and the only thing that's changing between each of the three 00:25:10
is what we do with Cedar. 00:25:15
So do we bring Cedar in as an ingress or egress only we, you know, can kind of change up some striping? 00:25:20
Do we not have cedar access at all? 00:25:28
And we put kind of. 00:25:31
Shark head on the end and a little bulb out for a turn around or do we relocate? 00:25:33
Both in ingress and egress. Entirely kind of upstream on Cedar. 00:25:40
And because of the roundabout configuration, that's why we're kind of allowed to do that relocation on the third option. 00:25:44
Because you don't have as much queuing issue. 00:25:52
More as opposed to like a stop sign, you wouldn't be able to do that right? Because the car could never get out. 00:25:55
This is what it could look like visual rendering that we've put together. 00:26:02
Facing. 00:26:06
East towards the high school. 00:26:08
And this is how one would navigate depending on what mode. 00:26:13
And there's opportunity for avid cyclists. 00:26:19
To continue in the road. So that's what the orange is representing. So if you're comfortable rider and you don't feel the need to 00:26:21
exit. 00:26:26
The facility and go to a charities path and you just ride in the road and you become just like a car from a right of way 00:26:32
perspective. 00:26:36
The teal is representing where that bike PED mixture area is. 00:26:40
And the green shows those exits and entrances for cyclists. 00:26:45
So our next steps, again, we're really trying to get all this feedback from folks to help back up the decision of what the 00:26:52
alternative is moving forward. 00:26:57
So that then we can work with Caltrans in the spring to really set that preliminary layout and then we can continue forward in the 00:27:03
process and start environmental. 00:27:08
That's it. 00:27:15
Rick, always this would be this good time for the commissioners to have questions. 00:27:26
Actually, I think you should go out to public comment 1st and then we'll come back to the Commission. Thanks so much. Absolutely 00:27:30
anybody present in our hall. 00:27:34
They would like to ask a question. 00:27:39
Please come up. 00:27:42
And we have one coming. 00:27:45
Welcome. 00:27:47
My name is Mirabi Boone and I was at the meeting last night. 00:27:49
And when I when we were looking at the board with. 00:27:53
No access from. 00:27:58
All of the neighbors between Sunset and Marino Pines were there. 00:28:01
And said that would be what they would prefer. 00:28:06
Which surprised me, but that's what they like and my my biggest concern is the mixture of pedestrians and bicycles in the same 00:28:09
spot. 00:28:14
And I know it's bicycles are supposed to go and be traffic, but. 00:28:20
We know that doesn't happen all the time. So that's my that's my concern about that part of it. 00:28:27
Is the bicycles and the pedestrians. 00:28:32
Going the same way. 00:28:35
On the same sidewalk. 00:28:37
Thank you. 00:28:40
And no one else is. 00:28:42
Online. 00:28:45
Yes, formerly to raise. 00:28:48
Yes, we have. Miss Garcia, you have the floor. 00:28:51
Thank you very much. Good afternoon and welcome, Commissioners. Thank you for your service. 00:28:56
Now, I didn't attend the public meetings, so. 00:29:04
I'm unclear whether or not there's going to be. 00:29:08
The ability for people to cross. 00:29:12
I mean, the way it is now, students cross the street, there's a sign guard there and what have you to get back and forth. 00:29:16
From sunset and what have you. 00:29:25
And it sounds to me as though this is a done. 00:29:29
Umm, in that the roundabout is going in no matter what. 00:29:33
And. 00:29:39
The map that. 00:29:40
Was put. 00:29:42
I think I saw part of the roundabout. 00:29:43
Onto the mission linen property. 00:29:47
I don't know if that's accurate or not. 00:29:50
And and whether or not. 00:29:52
That has already been approved. 00:29:56
So you know, I I use that intersection quite quite often and I've never had an issue with it. 00:30:00
And I'm wondering why. 00:30:07
There hasn't been. 00:30:11
Other attempts to. 00:30:14
Whatever it is, people see happening there. 00:30:16
Aside from just going forward with a roundabout being put in. 00:30:21
As an. 00:30:26
Why the intersections haven't been marked with the sign that says five way stop so that people understand it's a five way stop and 00:30:28
not a four way stop. 00:30:33
And that just boils down. 00:30:39
You know, public education. 00:30:43
Anyway. 00:30:45
You know, my own opinion is that I don't really see a need for it, I think. 00:30:49
Just, yeah, I just, I don't get it. I think there's just a big push to put the roundabout there, just to put a roundabout there 00:30:57
for Caltrans. 00:31:01
Umm. Anyway, umm that. That's all I have to say. And and the other thing too is that. 00:31:06
This is an area more so on the mission linen side of Congress, where we have wildlife, the deer particularly. 00:31:11
That roam around. 00:31:22
Anyway, and then and then the other question I have is access from the apartments that are there. 00:31:26
You know what this will do as far. 00:31:36
People coming and going and having accessibility. 00:31:39
Their homes, how that will be changed. So anyway, thank you. Good luck. 00:31:44
Thank you for your comments. 00:31:51
Anyone else? 00:31:53
We have. 00:31:55
Or indeed coming up to the. 00:31:56
Hello. 00:32:02
Question. 00:32:12
Public comment sessions last couple days but. 00:32:14
I was curious about what? 00:32:18
What? What design? 00:32:21
Tactics or or solutions? 00:32:26
Have been discussed about trying to slow people down on Sunset Drive. 00:32:28
We live across street and we live on that drive and I find that when people are coming down the hill. 00:32:33
We're trying to turn in our driveway and they're like right on, right on the tail of us as we're trying to turn in the driveway. 00:32:38
And then as as they come out of that intersection, the five way intersection. 00:32:44
People are on the gas, you know, trying to get up that hill and they're going probably like 4045 miles an hour up that up that 00:32:48
street in front of our house. And so it's just a wide, you know, it's a wide corridor and I think you kind of get comfortable and 00:32:54
go a little faster with the with the width of that thing. 00:32:59
So so in. I know this is mostly about the roundabout, but I thought since the topic was the corridor. 00:33:05
If there is something to do to try to slow folks down, one idea was putting a stop sign at the 19th intersection there. 00:33:12
But what I've noticed living there is when people are crossing the road. 00:33:21
Umm, cars are so used to flying down the thing that they end. 00:33:26
Almost like running into the tail end. 00:33:29
Folks that are trying to stop or or turn into driveways or whatnot, so I'm not sure if that's a great solution. 00:33:32
Caused more problems but. 00:33:38
If you guys could put that in the, I'm sure it's already in there, but. 00:33:41
That's, umm, that's definitely an issue on that. 00:33:45
Thank you. Thank you for your comment. 00:33:49
Anyone. Anyone else? 00:33:52
Commissioners. 00:33:57
If you have a comment. 00:33:58
Would you like to answer some of the questions and from our? 00:34:05
Sure. 00:34:10
From public, yeah. From the public, yeah, I can help a little bit with. 00:34:12
So regarding trying to reduce speed, that's one of the reasons that we are actually proposing decreasing the lane widths on 00:34:16
sunset. So part of that makes people feel a little less comfortable to drive faster. 00:34:24
And then also implementing those, we call them a buffer zone, but that extra white stripe between the bicycling and the lane 00:34:32
itself. 00:34:37
So also feels narrower than it really is. So that is one of the things that we are proposing. The roundabout is definitely not. 00:34:42
Oh, go ahead. 00:34:47
Daniel, could you put? 00:34:53
The PowerPoint back on the screen. 00:34:54
Just so we have a graphic so we can see what you're talking about. You can't all see inside my hand. Well, we can't just. It's 00:34:58
crazy in there though. 00:35:03
That's how it works. There we go. So if we Scroll down a couple. 00:35:09
Here we go. 00:35:20
So we show 11 foot travel lanes in those three foot buffers on the. 00:35:24
Northside and then. 00:35:30
The Class 2 bike lane as well so and then trying to also. 00:35:32
Incorporate some form of a island in the. 00:35:37
You know as much as we can, obviously because of access. So we'll take that into account as well when we start to lay this out for 00:35:41
all the driveways, we want to maintain all that, but where we can, you know, put stamped concrete or some sort of vegetation that 00:35:47
will also help people feel. 00:35:53
A little narrower and then helped slow down. 00:36:00
I'd also like to add 2 on this cross section, the bottom one. 00:36:04
That a lot of those houses on which would be the east side of Sunset, don't currently have sidewalks. Where there's that 00:36:09
opportunity now also with that room is to add sidewalks. 00:36:14
From. 00:36:21
Ave. all the way down to the. 00:36:22
Intersection. 00:36:25
With sidewalks, which will be an improvement at the public meetings, this is what we were hearing that they would the homeowners 00:36:27
there would love to have these sidewalks continuous in front of their properties. 00:36:32
And then it appears that on the high school side you have both sidewalk and. 00:36:40
AI guess you mentioned a class Class 1 bike bike lane, so is that going to be? 00:36:48
That ideally, yes, if we have the width available because it's kind of and also we want to take tree impacts into account too. But 00:36:54
yeah, in an ideal world we're trying to get some sort of I'll call it like landing zone, sidewalk for drop off pickup area 00:37:01
especially and as well as the pathway itself so that then you don't have as much of A mixing zone. 00:37:08
So would it be fair to say? 00:37:18
You know what you're doing is essentially providing traffic calming in that whole area, correct? For that consistent. 00:37:20
Way of dealing. 00:37:27
In problematic areas like you suggested with you suggest with the driveway and yes, things like that, yes exactly. There's 00:37:29
definitely going to be traffic coming as well as upgraded striping the length, right? So higher visibility, easier to see. 00:37:36
With, you know, wet night as well and some additional signing because we have heard some discussions about glare concerns as well 00:37:44
on the corridor and so trying to implement lighting. 00:37:51
Signing and striping. 00:37:58
Mr. Chairman, I've got a series of questions when it would be appropriate. I just have a couple more than. 00:38:00
Sure, if you don't. 00:38:05
This is my last no problem. 00:38:07
So I'm hoping, and I imagine you have consulted with the fire. 00:38:10
To find out as far as their response time in an emergency, which plan, which method? 00:38:14
Would enhance or impede their response time. That is our next step. Yeah we want we would definitely wanted to hear from the 00:38:20
public if there was even an appetite to potentially close Cedar that was kind of a big one for us these last couple meetings and 00:38:25
so now that we've. 00:38:30
Heard that it's on the table. Yeah, we wanna definitely meet with them next. OK. And then my last question is? 00:38:36
I would imagine you've consulted with. 00:38:43
To find out what kind of manpower challenges it would provide. 00:38:46
To have more. 00:38:50
Crossing guards. 00:38:52
We had because then there'll be 4 instead of 1. 00:38:54
I'm wondering what they think. 00:38:58
We had our first meeting with them last week and they're largely in favor of the project just in general because it is going to 00:39:00
include increase safety through here. 00:39:05
But yeah, we did talk about crossing guards and whether or not there's the potential to maybe. 00:39:11
In the future, eliminate one or just to reappropriate 1/2 with what the new geometry ends up doing, but we have not finalized any 00:39:16
of those decisions yet based on the geometry. 00:39:23
Commissioner Brown. 00:39:32
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I've got a series of questions, Miss Anderson, and the first thing I wanted to start with is he showed us 00:39:34
a slide of. 00:39:38
The various accidents that had taken place in that intersection, could we bring that up again? 00:39:43
Right there. 00:39:50
Too fast there, there. 00:39:51
OK. And you said, is this correct, this is from the 2017 to 2022 time period, most recent five years available. We pulled it 00:39:53
December of 2023. But typically these softwares are running about a year behind or so. 00:40:01
For the data, when they did the original study in 2016, did they do the same thing they did? And what can you tell us about the 00:40:09
accidents? They did not show any collisions at the intersection proper. They did show some collisions just adjacent, kind of 00:40:17
similar to what you're seeing in the F and A area on this slide. 00:40:24
The the singular. 00:40:32
F by itself and a by itself just to the. 00:40:34
Up and down stream of the intersection, but there was a fatality at 19th which I know the city is very aware of that just bans 00:40:37
outside. 00:40:41
Again, the five years, it's older than that, so it's not showing on this exhibit. 00:40:46
So I'm sorry it's not showing on this exhibit because you've got a. 00:40:51
F that you've got on here. 00:40:56
It's property damage only. So the the F just corresponds to the type, the collision factor which is following too closely and and 00:40:58
the fatality where did it take place. If you can show it on this. 00:41:05
Which is essentially in the middle of this black line on sunset. 00:41:12
You got the mouse. 00:41:17
Oh, in that area. Oh, up closer to the bigger intersection. Yeah, I see that. Yeah, I see. I see. I'm just trying to get it 00:41:19
pointed out. OK, so let's go back to the. 00:41:24
The collisions that took place here, What do we know about each one of these? You've got them labeled, yes? 00:41:29
So this is hard to see. 00:41:35
The the legend is is blurry. 00:41:39
On our screen. So I'm trying to figure this out. What is the? 00:41:42
So the A stands for automobile right away. 00:41:46
If you look in the middle legend, and so largely with these 10 collisions at the intersection, a large portion of them are 00:41:50
actually broadsides. 00:41:55
So the if it's a hexagon shape, it's a broadside. 00:42:03
And that's that's. 00:42:09
Indicative of a. 00:42:13
Controlled intersection and broad sides are, you know, pretty common with a stop intersection in in. 00:42:15
If this were to move forward into a roundabout design, which is why we're trying to get public information or input into this. 00:42:22
But roundabouts eliminate those broad. 00:42:30
They're greatly reduce them because we don't have those free turns. OK, So we have two broad. 00:42:34
It's all hexagons. 00:42:41
Hexagon. Yeah, so we have hexagons. I can't see. 00:42:43
5A Rear ends or hexagon, sorry. 00:42:49
I just can't. 00:42:53
It's little 6. 00:42:55
Broadside is the six side that sides of the rules or not or there's something else? 00:42:57
You expand the picture a little bit, maybe it would help us. 00:43:02
Sit off the screen. 00:43:06
Yeah, the beauty of them. 00:43:08
That's a lot, Commissioner. Commissioner Brown, if I can just interject. 00:43:11
The shape of the. 00:43:16
Box Boxes isn't now you made it too big, Dan. You can't see it. 00:43:17
There we go. So there's three. There's three different things to look at. Is the shape of the box first. So like if you see the 00:43:25
first one that says the F up on top. 00:43:30
Looks like a Pentagon. 00:43:34
So that's that is a rear end accident. 00:43:36
And then if you look at the. 00:43:40
Which is F Then it says following too closely. 00:43:42
And then the color is the blue, meaning that it is property damage only. 00:43:46
I see. OK, so we have. Does that make sense? Yeah. Three property damage, 34567 property damages in the intersection itself. 00:43:53
Correct. And three injuries, The yellows are injuries. Are those people in cars? 00:44:01
It could be a variety, variety of, yeah, either somebody was injured. 00:44:09
Within the within the collision that occurred because I I think my biggest concern with that intersection are pedestrians. 00:44:14
Mm-hmm. So. 00:44:21
Do we know if any pedestrians were injured in this intersection since between 2017 and 2022? 00:44:23
I can pull that that's not on this exhibit. 00:44:31
Very clearly. 00:44:34
There's no P there though, But these get coded very strangely through, you know how the cops like to do it? Just their system, 00:44:35
right? All of the, as you can see, use peas eyes as fund. But if we're wanting to show that separation between vehicle and 00:44:42
pedestrian, we're happy to update this exhibit to show that as well. 00:44:49
OK. You you also if we go to slide 13. 00:44:57
He said There's a very tight. 00:45:02
If you were to do a four way, it would be very tight for trucks. 00:45:06
Is the present intersection. 00:45:11
Approved for trucks or is it doesn't meet the regulations at this time? 00:45:14
I don't believe. 00:45:21
That it fully meets, but we could also run the turn you. You can see that it would make it today though if you zoom in a second 00:45:23
down on the say on the. 00:45:28
Southside. 00:45:34
The black line work is the truck. 00:45:38
Right. So you can see that they can make it now. 00:45:41
But with installing additional pedestrian enhancements that we've been talking about as part of this project. 00:45:45
That would include shortening those crossings. 00:45:53
That would pull the. 00:45:56
In order to do that. 00:45:59
And then that's where the truck turns. Don't quite work. 00:46:01
I've got a 14 for. Could I ask another question real quick? That one size trailer you see these are articulated, but what size 00:46:05
trailer are you using for this particular example? So this one's a WB50 truck, which is more commonly like your. 00:46:14
Your bigger Safeway delivery truck, so it's not you know the the smaller you know FedEx box truck, it's kind of that next size up. 00:46:23
So one of the other considerations. 00:46:32
Is Hayward. 00:46:35
So they often get very large trucks, much larger than actually can fit on the existing. 00:46:37
Streets. So they're something to take into account because there's really not a not a better way for them to get down to Hayward 00:46:45
Lumber. 00:46:49
So if you had too much of A constraint to the swollen location. 00:46:55
A challenge? 00:46:59
Yeah. And so one of Sunset proper, right, being the state route as well that will be required to accommodate a Cal Legal, so the 00:47:03
larger, larger truck. 00:47:08
Just from Caltrans side of the house, that's what they'll make us do and you know when you're referring to the different 00:47:15
standards. 00:47:17
Kind of meat, Al. 00:47:21
Highway Design Manual. 00:47:26
Correct. And then if if it's any consolidation, normally it's an even bigger truck that they require, but State Route 68 has been 00:47:30
downgraded to still a very, very large truck, but just not the maximum allowable through the fence. 00:47:38
Yeah. So it couldn't we continue on on slide 14 for a second? 00:47:47
Thank you, Mr. G. 00:47:57
I actually maybe it's the next one. 00:47:59
Oh, no. I guess it is this one. I'm sorry. Let's go back. 00:48:04
114 again. 00:48:07
So one of these configurations discusses and I do new I'm I have heard the. 00:48:11
Public comment that the people are on Cedar would just be just happy to. 00:48:19
You know put an end to their St. there and not go into this, but one of them has a part of cedar going into. 00:48:23
Congress. 00:48:32
The the far right option, yeah. 00:48:35
That that just looks really problematic. 00:48:38
And again, it's trying to see what we can do. What, what's, umm. 00:48:42
Viable to try to get bi directional, so if we were trying to get both directions of cedar. 00:48:47
To continue. 00:48:55
We really can't bring 2 directions of cedar into the roundabout because of the closeness to Congress. So that's the reason that 00:48:56
that outside the box idea even showed up. 00:49:02
Again, trying to get feedback to see maybe we discount it entirely based on what we're hearing. 00:49:08
But that's essentially what it would take to get some sort of continuation both ways, OK. So considering the public comment that 00:49:14
we heard is, is it correct that? 00:49:19
What they're saying is that they like the. 00:49:25
Access option. 00:49:28
Would that be correct? But that's the consensus we were gathering last night. We've yet to really tally up a bunch of that 00:49:32
information and put it. 00:49:36
And started to begin to document it, but that is correct and we're also working on. 00:49:41
Survey, which we're going to send out just to these residents that are within this proximity. 00:49:46
To try to just. 00:49:52
Thor their. 00:49:55
Initially. 00:49:58
That's very helpful. If that were to be done, then you would you would be able to consider both the roundabout and a four. 00:50:00
Stop sign. 00:50:09
Solution potentially. Is that right? 00:50:11
He cut off cider. 00:50:13
Yes, that's the only way that we could further look at a stop sign. 00:50:15
It's eliminating cedar. And why don't we go to 16 for me? 00:50:21
OK, so 16 is really. 00:50:31
The markup of the consideration of a roundabout correct one of the concerns. One of the concerns I've had. 00:50:35
You know, this is right by the school. And you know, people walk by my house, they walk up Congress, they walk up various places. 00:50:44
The kids are, you know, have to cross somewhere. 00:50:49
The present time you have the crossing guards and you just have. 00:50:54
Is generally, I guess. I've seen on the on. 00:50:58
Intersection of Congress? 00:51:01
And sunset. 00:51:05
And now you're going to have four or more. 00:51:07
Places to cross. You've got, let's say one by the school over towards. 00:51:12
What used to be the laundry, They went from the laundry over across the street. Then you've got across the street. 00:51:17
Well, Cedars cut off, then you don't have that problem, but then you've still. 00:51:22
Across. 00:51:27
And then from sunset to Congress. 00:51:29
And you've got people now that are going to be driving around this. 00:51:35
At some rate of speed and bicycles. 00:51:39
Isn't there some some concern about? 00:51:46
Just creating more of an opportunity for. 00:51:49
A little second. 00:51:56
Get your Rich Deal traffic. 00:52:00
One of the things about roundabouts and pedestrian crossings, especially single lane roundabouts. 00:52:04
Is. 00:52:09
The actual pedestrian crossing goes from. 00:52:11
A long crosswalk. 00:52:15
With multi lanes and multi threats from turning movements in several directions to. 00:52:19
Crossing a single lane at a time. 00:52:25
With One Direction of traffic coming from pedestrians left. 00:52:28
And by having. 00:52:33
Walkways separated from the the intersection. 00:52:35
There's really good sight lines for a positive interaction between the driver and the pedestrian. 00:52:40
Deciding when to cross and then there's median space or refuge area in the splitter island that is big enough for a pedestrian and 00:52:48
a bike, so it's usually 6 feet minimum. We'd like to make it a little. 00:52:54
And then when they get to the that median again, they're faced with a single. 00:53:00
Conflict coming from their right on the approach. 00:53:06
To the roundabout, the other thing that makes the pedestrian crossing. 00:53:10
With roundabouts is that the crosswalks are pulled back about 25 feet, so there's one car length. 00:53:15
Downstream of the crosswalk on the approach. So if you're going down Sunset toward a Sylmar. 00:53:24
There's one car. 00:53:31
Past the crosswalk so that the driver who's at the limit line or the entry line who's waiting to enter the roundabout. 00:53:34
They're looking at traffic circulating around from the left. They're not having to look at a pedestrian conflict coming from the 00:53:42
right. 00:53:46
Is what happens at. 00:53:51
Always stops and traffic signals. That's why we get crashes at those type of. 00:53:53
You know, normalized T intersection. Can I stop here? Right there, because I don't really see that. Let's say I'm coming down 00:53:58
sunset. 00:54:01
OK, I get to the intersection with Cedar and I've stopped with. 00:54:05
You know orange? 00:54:10
Arrow. 00:54:11
Yes, I can see people coming across from. 00:54:14
Towards the entrance to Congress. But there will be also people coming from Congress going the other way, wouldn't there? 00:54:19
Well sure, but remember because of the offset with the crosswalk. 00:54:26
There isn't a turning movement. 00:54:32
Immediately at. 00:54:35
The limit line. 00:54:37
That's going to impact a pedestrian because the crosswalk is set. 00:54:39
So the crossing is separated from the intersection movements or the roundabout movements. So let's say you're coming down Congress 00:54:42
from. 00:54:47
The elementary school You make a right into the roundabout, and then you're going to make a right into onto sunset and head toward 00:54:52
the forest. 00:54:56
As you. 00:55:01
Around that. 00:55:03
And you're getting ready to make a right? 00:55:05
You have a single conflict that you're looking at, which is that pedestrian who's getting ready to cross or who's already crossing 00:55:07
that. 00:55:11
14 to 16 foot length, it's very, very. 00:55:15
As opposed to what we have now which is 100 feet of. 00:55:19
Crosswalk that someone's got to traverse the entire length. So how does that, how does that translate to a crossing guard? Well, a 00:55:23
crossing guard is crossing. 00:55:28
A lot shorter distance and they can be in the splitter, island and control. 00:55:34
Both. 00:55:39
At the same time, because it's a much. 00:55:40
Narrower area. 00:55:42
And it has such a. 00:55:44