No Bookmarks Exist.
Yeah. 00:00:05
OK. 00:00:08
Did you start? 00:00:13
Physical. 00:00:19
And my brother, yes I am. 00:00:21
All right, I'm kind of waiting for one more member, but I hope she shows up here shortly. 00:00:24
So I will call the August 23rd. 00:00:30
2023 Meeting of the Historic Resources Committee to order. 00:00:34
And may we please have a roll call. 00:00:38
Chair Anton. 00:00:42
Present. 00:00:43
Vice chair steers. 00:00:45
Here. 00:00:47
Member Grannis. 00:00:48
Here. 00:00:49
Member Greening. 00:00:51
Member Bickett. 00:00:54
Member, please. 00:00:56
We have. 00:01:01
Five present, one absent. 00:01:04
John Cleese. 00:01:06
And when they and one vacancy. OK, moving on to the agenda. 00:01:08
I would like to pull item number. 00:01:15
Umm. 00:01:18
7B 00:01:20
and I'd like to move it, if I may, to. 00:01:24
To the new 8. 00:01:28
See. 00:01:31
And then move each of the items below that just down 11 notch. 00:01:34
Is there anybody else on the committee that would like to pull an item? 00:01:41
Is there anybody in the audience that would like to pull an item? 00:01:46
And what about our virtual audience? Do we have anybody? 00:01:51
I don't see any hands raised. 00:02:01
Pardon me? 00:02:05
No. 00:02:06
All right, so maybe we have a. 00:02:08
A motion to approve the agenda, please. 00:02:11
I see. 00:02:14
Thank you. 00:02:15
I second. 00:02:16
Thank you. 00:02:18
Member Grannis. 00:02:23
Member Beckett. 00:02:27
Chair Anton. 00:02:31
Aye. 00:02:33
Vice chair steers. 00:02:34
Aye. 00:02:36
Member Greening. 00:02:38
Motion passes. 00:02:42
Waiting for 51019. 00:02:53
Thank you. Motion passes 51. 00:02:56
0. 00:02:59
Thank you. All right, let's go to committee and staff announcements. I'll ask first, do we have any committee announcements? 00:02:59
Seeing none, do we have any staff announcements? 00:03:08
Seeing none, all right. 00:03:14
Moving right along without council liaison announcements and always happy to see Mayor Pete here. 00:03:16
Thank you for coming. 00:03:23
Yeah. 00:03:24
Good afternoon, Chair and committee members. Thank you for being here. 00:03:27
What council has done recently, we've approved a poor a proposal for Rincon to work on a focused general plan update and that's. 00:03:32
Extra planning documentation. A significant amount I might add. 00:03:46
For support of the housing element. 00:03:51
Also on. 00:03:55
Tory Hannah was appointed City Manager Pro Tem and she'll serve until. 00:03:58
A interim city manager. 00:04:05
Is appointed. 00:04:07
And upcoming council. 00:04:09
Activities. 00:04:11
Topics. 00:04:12
Parklets. 00:04:13
Cannabis shop. 00:04:15
Housing element update. 00:04:17
An update on the capital improvement programs. 00:04:19
And. 00:04:23
City manager recruiting is ongoing. 00:04:24
That's all I have. 00:04:27
Have a good meeting. 00:04:28
The big things. Thank you very much. 00:04:30
All right. We'll move to item number 5, which is general public comment. 00:04:33
This must deal with matters that are subject to the jurisdiction of this committee, which are not on the agenda. 00:04:38
And just for the sake of time and hoping that Miss Klee shows up. 00:04:45
We have a very big agenda today, so I'd like to limit public comment and all comments during this meeting today to a 2 minute time 00:04:49
period. 00:04:53
So with that, I'm opening to general public comment. 00:04:58
And we'll start with our local, with our people in the audience. 00:05:01
So come forward please. 00:05:05
Hello, my name's Vince Tuminello. I'm a Pacific Grove resident. I've been involved in many. 00:05:16
City meetings, different organizations, and some of my best friends. Many of you will remember Francis. Great. She and I worked on 00:05:21
a lot of projects together. 00:05:26
As well as many other old time Alzheimer's. I'm considering myself an Alzheimer now too. 00:05:31
So I'm retired also. OK, so I'm here to talk about something which will affect or you will be possibly involved in it's. 00:05:37
This mandate by the State of California to force Pacific Grove to build a finite large number of housing units, sometimes referred 00:05:45
to as a DUADU. 00:05:51
And I find that to be absurd, and so do many of my neighbors, so I'm here to speak on behalf of them. 00:05:58
And. 00:06:04
I just want to voice to you that I don't think Pacific Grove should be cow towing to the states forcing us to build 1100 units. 00:06:05
Karma Little Carmel 356 Monterey 4500. 00:06:12
Now this is ridiculous if naturally over time we see our neighbors have been waiting on a DU expanding their properties, We know 00:06:20
that there have been new projects in downtown Pacific Grove and so forth. 00:06:25
But to force us to do it? 00:06:31
Is ridiculous. So how are we gonna stop that? How are we gonna get around that? 00:06:33
200. 00:06:37
Communities are organizing a group. 00:06:39
Now listen carefully. 00:06:42
Or or you are our I would like each of you. I don't have the time and only two minutes to go over at all. 00:06:43
Please look at the Internet for our. 00:06:49 and Pacific Grove is a Charter City should be involved in that movement. 00:06:55
To stop the state from forcing us to build 11150 new housing units regardless of their perceived need. It's ridiculous we don't 00:07:02
have the space for that many. 00:07:08
The number should be a lot lower and there's no way around that even with our housing element. Thank you. 00:07:15
Thank you very much. 00:07:20
My name is Mike Gibbs. I'm a member of the. 00:07:28
Economic Development Commission for Pacific Grove, and I'm here on my own behalf. I would just mention that the EDC is launching A 00:07:31
strategic planning process and you'll be hearing more about it over the next few months. We'll pay attention to that. Mister 00:07:37
Tuminello mentioned that we are charged city. Pacific Grove is unusual in California. Out of about 450 municipalities, we're one 00:07:43
of about 125 charter cities. 00:07:49
And the Charter Cities law, It's a home rule provision of the United. 00:07:55
Of the California Constitution. 00:08:00
Which authorizes cities like Pacific Grove. 00:08:02
To have its own authority over municipal affairs, free from any constraint imposed by general law and subject only to 00:08:04
constitutional limitations. 00:08:09
So, for example, Mr. Tuminello mentioned Carmel. It is a general law city. 00:08:14
It does not have certain rights that we have to consider our own fares, make decisions like you all here. By the way, thank you 00:08:18
for your service. I saw the package there and it was like 1000 pages long. So you do have a your work in front of you. I do 00:08:23
appreciate that. 00:08:27
So I I'm just. 00:08:32
Raising this issue and following Mr. Tunnel, you will hear more about our neighborhood voices and it is a fairly large movement. 00:08:34
There will be an initiative on the state ballot in 2024. 00:08:40
To keep local zoning and land use issues local. 00:08:46
The problem is, is that there's something called the Builders remedy. I'm not sure if you've heard of this. 00:08:51
But it allows the state and builders to come in and take properties or end up with properties like the one behind Lighthouse 00:08:56
Theater, that big parking lot, and start to develop property. The what's happened in other cities where this is to Nobody's 00:09:02
against low affordable housing. Nobody's against that. 00:09:08
But what happens is they put this in at market rate and that means all of the other housing has to be more expensive raising the 00:09:14
market rates in Pacific Grove and other cities like us. So our neighborhood voices watch for this. It's going to be a state 00:09:20
initiatives very important. I think you would be interested. Thank you very much. 00:09:25
Thank you. 00:09:32
Anybody else present, they'd like to speak. 00:09:35
Do we have anybody on our in our virtual audience? I see you nodding. 00:09:37
I'll allow Lisa Chianni to speak. 00:09:42
Thank you. Several members of the community have asked that HRC agenda is. 00:09:45
Consideration of Pat Hathaway's family home and workplace at 960 Bayview for addition to the HRI. 00:09:51
Yet at your July meeting, the chair seemed to say that additions will be reviewed. 00:09:58
When HRC has reviewed finished reviewing all the recommended deletions and only the 48 potential. 00:10:03
Additions that page and Turnbull suggested. 00:10:10
In there. 00:10:13
2018 survey report were mentioned. 00:10:14
HRC's public review of the recommended deletions is very important, but not to the exclusion of other pressing matters. I've been 00:10:17
attending HRC meetings regularly for the past seven or eight years. 00:10:23
As well as the community meetings about the HR I update. 00:10:30
It was a great accomplishment. 00:10:34
When the community came out in significant numbers and all ages at a City Council meeting in 2017 to save HRC from being rolled 00:10:35
into a RB. As a result, HRC gained the authority for review of projects for properties on the HRI and HRC has the authority to add 00:10:43
or delete properties. Since Page and Trembles HR I update was undertaken, I've never heard HRC make a decision that there would be 00:10:50
no additions to the HR I. 00:10:58
Until all the recommended deletions have been reviewed. 00:11:06
And that would not be in the interests of protecting PG's historic resources. So I'm asking again that HRC agenda is consideration 00:11:09
of Pat Hathaway's house. 00:11:14
Which is urgent. 00:11:19
Not because there's any chance to undo the ARB's misguided decision to approve a project. 00:11:20
Without a phase two report. 00:11:26
But for official recognition of a property with a phase one report. 00:11:28
Attesting to its historic significance and integrity. 00:11:32
And a property associated with an important person in PG's history for many decades. 00:11:36
To assure the home. 00:11:43
And the man will not be forgotten by the city. 00:11:44
Please agenda is consideration of adding 960 Bayview to the HR. I thank you. 00:11:48
Thank you. 00:11:54
Roll out Angular, Rinse and Dahmer to speak. 00:12:02
I guess Lisa and I are on the same page, chair and members of the committee. 00:12:07
Umm. 00:12:12
Chapter 23.76 point 03 O. 00:12:15
Deals with additions and deletions. 00:12:20
With the Historic Resources Committee, and absolutely nothing in our code says that we must wait for all the deletions. 00:12:23
To be completed. 00:12:32
Before we can even consider. 00:12:34
In addition. 00:12:37
And that, I rather think, defeats the purpose of a living, breathing historic. 00:12:38
Inventory. 00:12:44
That you want to delete but not add. 00:12:46
Which the older we get. 00:12:48
It seems that it should be the other way. 00:12:51
So I would ask this committee. 00:12:53
To rethink, and especially the chair to rethink this. 00:12:56
Arbitrary decision that we must wait. Nothing in our code says that we must wait for addition, all deletions before we make 00:13:00
additions. 00:13:05
Thank you very much. 00:13:11
Thank you. 00:13:14
I see no more hands raised. 00:13:19
I'd like to take the time to respond. 00:13:22
So don't usually do this, but. 00:13:25
We made the agreement when we started the deletion process that we would. 00:13:27
Do the first half of the retreat area. 00:13:33
And then we would reconsider and see how it was going. 00:13:36
As of now, we've had a lot of trouble because of recusals because some of us live in the area. 00:13:41
We've got to do that again today, so it's been a tough process to even get to our first goal. 00:13:47
Once we get there, then we will reconsider. 00:13:53
And that would that would include additions, but I I just feel like we need to finish the business we got going on first before we 00:13:56
go to the. 00:14:00
Take another step. 00:14:05
So I just wanted to say that. 00:14:07
All right, let's go to the next is the consent agenda. 00:14:10
And so we only have the two items on there, and. 00:14:16
I guess I need to go to public comment on that. 00:14:21
Do I? 00:14:24
So any. 00:14:29
We've already deleted one. Do we have any public comment on the consent agenda? 00:14:30
We have one hand raised. I'll allow Lisa Chiani to speak. 00:14:38
Thank you. I appreciate that. 00:14:45
Something was pulled the the patient Turnbull. 00:14:49
Proposal was pulled but I I also. 00:14:55
Want to pull the? 00:15:00
The Minutes. 00:15:02
Because. 00:15:03
I think that the 1st. 00:15:05
Round of public comment was included in the minutes, but I I don't think the second round was right right after. 00:15:07
Hannah spoke. 00:15:18
Umm. 00:15:20
So. 00:15:21
I couldn't swear to that because like you said, this is a very large agenda and. 00:15:21
I'm I'm doing my best to. 00:15:27
Scramble through. 00:15:29
Do you have any others? 00:15:37
Anybody in the audience. 00:15:38
We actually already approved the agenda, so. 00:15:42
Umm. 00:15:46
I think we have to go ahead with what we approve. May I have a motion to approve? 00:15:47
Consent agenda. 00:15:52
As. 00:15:54
Amended. 00:15:55
I second thank you. 00:15:57
Mama Grannis. 00:16:04
Member Greening. 00:16:06
Aye. 00:16:08
Chair Anton. 00:16:10
Aye. 00:16:11
Vice chair steers. 00:16:13
Remember Beckett? 00:16:15
Aye. 00:16:16
Motion Passes 50. 00:16:18
One vacancy. Thank you. 00:16:21
All right, we now move to item eight, public hearings. 00:16:24
The first item is architectural permit regarding 111 10th St. and we have a report from. 00:16:28
Our staff member, Mr. Campbell. 00:16:36
Good afternoon, Chair Anton and. 00:16:40
Historic Resource Committee members. 00:16:42
I'm presenting architectural permit 220264, which I will mention does have a CDP attached to it which will be presented to the 00:16:45
Planning Commission. 00:16:50
Not this next not September, but in more likely in October. 00:16:58
I also want to mention that the. 00:17:02
Architectural permit, if approved today, will only become effective after the CDP is approved by the PC. 00:17:05
It's all part of that coastal development plan. 00:17:11
Or permit. 00:17:13
The subject property is located on the northeast corner of 10th and Pearl streets and is zoned R3 PGR. 00:17:16
The 300 or 3600 square foot lot has an existing 1117 square foot two-story single family dwelling with a 398 square foot detached 00:17:22
accessory dwelling unit. 00:17:28
The single family dwelling in. 00:17:35
Carriage port were constructed in 1926, the carriage port being what is now the AU. The date at which the the carriage port was 00:17:37
enlarged and converted to an accessory dwelling unit could not be determined. 00:17:43
The property is in the coastal zone and archaeologically sensitive area in the city's area of special biological significance. 00:17:50
And clearly is on the HRI. 00:17:57
A phase two historical assessment was performed phase one and two by Archives and Archaeology in August 14th. 00:18:01
2022. 00:18:10
For the property and it concluded the potential impact of the proposed development would be nominal to the historic resource. 00:18:12
By phase one, archaeological assessment was also performed by the same group on March 28th, 2022 and. 00:18:19
Determined that the cultural that cultural, culturally sensitive resources were not present. 00:18:27
The applicant proposes the major remodel of the existing 1117 square foot two-story single family dwelling with an existing 398 00:18:34
square foot detached accessory dwelling unit. 00:18:39
The applicant proposes to connect the main level of the single family dwelling to the existing detached DU with a new 304 square 00:18:44
foot first floor addition. 00:18:49
Existing Edu would be converted to both new primary living space. 00:18:54
And an attached 185 square foot. 00:18:58
Garage. 00:19:01
A new 276 square foot second floor addition will be added to the existing rear second floor. 00:19:03
The proposed project includes a new 403 square foot driveway and a new 324 square foot wooden deck. 00:19:08
The proposed project will result in a 2000. 00:19:16
96 square foot two-story single family dwelling with a 185 square foot attached garage and there is no tree removal. 00:19:20
Being proposed. 00:19:28
The surrounding land uses The property is located in a residential neighborhood and is surrounded by small, medium and large size 00:19:30
one and two-story single and multifamily residences. 00:19:35
In the Pacific Grove Retreat neighborhood. 00:19:39
The properties immediately surrounding the project sites are developed with two-story single and multifamily residences. 00:19:42
We recommend approval of the proposed architectural permit subject to the findings for. 00:19:49
PGMC 23.70, point 070H. 00:19:55
The conditions of approval and the Sequoia class one. 00:19:59
15301 Categorical Exemption for Existing Facilities in Class 31, which is 15331 Categorical exemptions for historic resource 00:20:03
restoration, rehabilitation, respectively. 00:20:08
I do want to make a clarification. There have been some questions about these categorical exemptions. 00:20:14
From residents, that in part. 00:20:20
Did not calculate. 00:20:26
Certain things properly, so I will just to clarify the 15 Categorical Exemption 15301 applies where additions to existing 00:20:28
structures. 00:20:32
Provided that the additions will not result in an increase of more than 50%. 00:20:38
Of the floor area. 00:20:42
Of the structures before the additions, or 2500 square feet, whichever is greater. 00:20:43
There's another section of that which is also. 00:20:49
Could be up to 10,000 square feet if the project is in an area where all public services. 00:20:51
And facilities are available to allow for maximum development permissible in the General Plan and in an area where the project is. 00:20:56
Project is not located in an environmentally sensitive. 00:21:03
Area. 00:21:06
Which would be the Escher areas which is not. 00:21:07
So the existing floor area of the existing structures, not including the shed, is 1516 square feet. 00:21:11
And that would allow up to 758 square feet of additions to qualify for this exemption. 00:21:19
Proposed additions would result in the 2096 square foot. 00:21:24
Single family as mentioned before. 00:21:29
But the addition is only 580 square feet of the gross floor area, which is 38.26%. 00:21:31
Less than the 50%, so it does still meet that qualification. 00:21:37
Also as far as the historic. 00:21:42
Exemption. 00:21:45
Staff does not. 00:21:48
Make. 00:21:50
We we aren't qualified for to say whether or not something is. 00:21:51
That meets the Secretary of Interior, and that's why we require. 00:21:55
The phase one and the phase two. 00:21:59
Historic reports. 00:22:01
So. 00:22:03
We base our. 00:22:04
Those exemptions on those. 00:22:05
Reports by the qualified historians. 00:22:07
I do want to mention to you guys the. 00:22:11
The findings for that are required for the AP. 00:22:14
I just want to kind of run down the list. 00:22:18
Of. 00:22:20
What is in the code? And so this is the PGMC 23.70 point 070H. 00:22:21
That's findings required for approval. 00:22:27
And one is the architectural and general appearance. 00:22:29
Of the completed project or compatible with the neighborhood. 00:22:33
To the completed project will neither be detrimental to the orderly and harmonious development of the city nor impair the 00:22:36
desirability of investment or occupation in the neighborhood. 00:22:40
Three, the Committee has been guided by and has made reference to applicable provisions of the architectural review Guidelines in 00:22:45
making its determination on single family residences. 00:22:50
And the additional findings for Exterior Alterations to Structures on Historic Resources inventory. 00:22:56
Is the exterior alteration of any structure on the historic resources inventories consistent with the Secretary of Interior 00:23:01
Standards for Rehabilitation of Historic Buildings? 00:23:06
And the exterior alterations. 00:23:10
Of any structure on the Historic Resources Inventory complies with appendices one through four of the Pacific Grove Architectural 00:23:12
Review Guidelines. 00:23:16
That is the actually another thing. I do want to make sure that we point out that the phase one and phase two historical 00:23:23
assessments. 00:23:26
We're done as well as the phase one archaeological. 00:23:31
And they were found to be consistent, so. 00:23:35
If you have any questions, I am here for you. 00:23:39
All right. Thank you, Mr. Campbell. 00:23:43
All right, next we'd like to hear from. I'm not sure who's present but the applicant or the designer for this project. 00:23:45
Then. 00:24:04
Harlan Collins of this. 00:24:05
Would you mind, please speaking in the microphone? 00:24:07
It's better. 00:24:10
And thank you. 00:24:11
Going to repeat, I'm Claudia Ortiz representing Craig and Lynn Harlan Collins on this project. 00:24:12
So I wanted to start just by giving you a brief. 00:24:18
History of how we came about this project and I think. 00:24:23
This is very apparent just looking at the the plans, what our intent was. 00:24:26
And it's mainly to maintain and keep the historic structure as is. 00:24:32
You know, it's a it's a beautiful cottage. 00:24:36
It's a 1 1/2 story structure. 00:24:40
And it sits quite nicely in the front of the property and it has plenty of room in the rear for expansions and so on. And we 00:24:43
wanted to take advantage of that concept and preserve the historic. 00:24:48
Structure the the fabric and so on of the of the building. 00:24:54
And so. 00:24:59
The concept was to, you know, to to expand it, take take advantage of the the floor area and come up with a concept that would 00:25:00
not. 00:25:05
Deviate from the historical? 00:25:11
Presence that this structure has and the idea was to create an addition. 00:25:13
That would be. That would be very. 00:25:17
It would not be impacting to the structure itself and what I mean by that is I've done quite a few projects, historical projects 00:25:21
for Murphy's and and and and so on in Carmel, but. 00:25:27
A lot of times when we do additions to historical buildings, we end up taking a significant amount of the rear. 00:25:34
Portion of the structure in altering it for additions and so on. 00:25:41
And if you analyze this layout and this concept of the structure. 00:25:45
You know the overall perimeter. 00:25:49
It's about 105 square feet, linear feet of of of building. 00:25:51
Exterior fabric that we have. 00:25:56
We're only touching 8 feet of that. 00:25:58
Out of 105 feet, we're only touching 8 feet, and we're able to accomplish this by creating a in in a, a a hallway, a breezeway. 00:26:00
Concept. 00:26:10
Attaching it to the main structure and then building from there and by doing that we're able to maintain. 00:26:11
And and and keep the historical structure as is. But more importantly, what this does is it creates A delineation between. 00:26:17
The historical structure. 00:26:26
And the addition, so anybody can come in in the future and look at the structure and see that. 00:26:28
This is where the addition starts, and this is where the historical structure remains. 00:26:33
And so that's a very important. 00:26:38
Fact, do you wanna maintain and create when you design a building as such and so? 00:26:41
I think that by doing this and based on other projects that I've done, I think. 00:26:47
This is a very neat concept that we're only disturbing. 00:26:51
Roughly 8 feet. 00:26:54
Of the entire. 00:26:55
Perimeter of the existing structure and and then we're able to create this addition more. 00:26:57
And and also. 00:27:02
Keep in mind that the existing structure is a 1 1/2 story. 00:27:04
Building. 00:27:07
And the addition is a two-story building. So again there's another element right there that really defines. 00:27:08
Those two features, what's existing historic versus what's proposed and what the addition is? 00:27:15
So I think we have a very clear delineation of what's historic and what's not. 00:27:21
Which is again a a feature that has really. 00:27:26
You know it's asking demanded by Sequoia and by the historians to differentiate those those two elements. 00:27:30
So I feel like we accomplished that really well. 00:27:37
In this project. 00:27:40
And I think. 00:27:41
You know the the height of the structure. 00:27:43
And so on. It's not overwhelming because there's been other projects approved in this city that are also similar contexts with the 00:27:46
additions that are, you know, substantial in comparison to historical structure. So we're in keeping with that, but that it is 00:27:53
also a fact that is created because of the size of these lots and the way the city. 00:28:00
Is the the laws are created you know in in different different areas like in Pebble Beach or other cities? 00:28:07
Malibu or whatever the. 00:28:13
The lots are a lot larger and bigger, and you have more flexibility when you have additions, but when you have small lots you have 00:28:17
to. 00:28:20
Compact the addition and try to create it in a manner that. 00:28:23
Suits the lot and fits the with the footprint. Fits well. 00:28:27
Again, these are small lots, so we are constrained when it comes to to those issues, but. 00:28:31
Having said all of that, I feel that. 00:28:36
Our proposal. 00:28:38
Really maintains a historical structure. 00:28:40
Assets and really just keeps that structure and that element you know very well noted as to. 00:28:44
What is historic and what is not? 00:28:51
And and obviously we're doing some interior alterations to the, to the, to the layout, but they're not. 00:28:53
Visually apparent to the exterior fabric. 00:29:00
So I feel like we've done a a good job giving the constraints that we have with these small lots and maintaining the existing 00:29:03
structure assets. 00:29:07
So if there's any questions that you have, I would be more than happy to to address it. 00:29:11
Thank you. And I'm I we may have questions if but first we'll open the public comment and then. 00:29:17
And then we'll. 00:29:24
Chat and we may ask you to come back. Thank you. 00:29:25
Alright, thank you. Thank you. 00:29:28
So I will open now to public comment and I'll start with our. 00:29:32
Audience that's present and thank you for being here. 00:29:36
Nobody wants to speak from the. 00:29:42
Please come up if you want to speak, otherwise I'll go to Virtual. 00:29:44
Either. 00:29:55
James Tyler. Really. 00:29:56
Live on the adjacent property. 00:29:58
Thanks for having me. 00:30:00
Just one comment on his comment of his. 00:30:02
The structure is not overwhelming the. 00:30:05
The lot. 00:30:08
To me it is as the neighbour. 00:30:09
We don't have. 00:30:12
Structures. 00:30:13
Quite that size. 00:30:14
As you said, the small lots. 00:30:16
Small houses. 00:30:18
I. 00:30:21
I made an effort to list my house with. 00:30:22
The public, I mean the historic society. 00:30:26
You can look at 110 9th St. as. 00:30:29
Was not listed when I purchased it. 00:30:31
And made a point of listing it. 00:30:34
Give him the plaque putting the names on and it being. 00:30:37
Part of the inventory. 00:30:40
Love the house next door. 00:30:43
Amazing. 00:30:45
White House, it says in the front. 00:30:47
As you've seen, just as it is. 00:30:49
And. 00:30:51
I've always liked that about PG. 00:30:51
Protecting all the assets. 00:30:54
I mean. 00:30:57
I don't know if it's true, but I go around telling people that it's one of the higher. 00:30:58
Per capita, Victorian homes and all the country. 00:31:02
So. 00:31:05
I'm. 00:31:06
Guilty of spreading that rumor. 00:31:07
But the reality is, I'm proud of our House being that. 00:31:10
You know, it was John Meier's. 00:31:13
Sister and. 00:31:15
For. 00:31:17
Her daughter. 00:31:18
Who built it? 00:31:19
And. 00:31:21
And. 00:31:22
Neighbor. 00:31:23
It was his brother. 00:31:24
So it's got this historic factor in the house next to it. 00:31:26
It's incredible. 00:31:28
So anyways, it's being a small house. 00:31:30
That's great. 00:31:33
The big concern I have, I know you can't stop development, right? You guys do a good job. 00:31:34
Trying and the world just. 00:31:39
Over. Over bears us, you know. 00:31:41
But. 00:31:43
The reality is there's probably the most historic tree in all of PG. 00:31:44
Sitting in their backyard. 00:31:48
I mean, it's the biggest free. 00:31:50
And then I set up the. 00:31:53
Big St. 00:31:54
That I know. 00:31:57
You're running out of time, but you can't even see. 00:32:00
Thank you. 00:32:06
Thank you. 00:32:07
Yeah anyways, my only concern is deleting the AU. 00:32:09
And also hurting this tree. Thank you. 00:32:12
Thankfully false. Thank you. 00:32:15
My name is Donna Tuma and I live in the Victorian across the street. 00:32:35
From the Playhouse and the main thing I'm interested in is that. 00:32:41
The Playhouse is going to look the same from the street. 00:32:47
As it does now, except. 00:32:52
The roof will be different. Do I understand that correctly? 00:32:55
I mean there, it'll be bigger in the back. 00:33:01
But the front of the house will look the same. 00:33:06
And then the will the garage be? 00:33:10
Where the driveway is now. 00:33:13
I think you need to look at the plans. 00:33:19
OK. 00:33:21
That's the main thing I'm we're interested that it keeps looking the same on the front. 00:33:22
So, all right. Thank you. Thank you for coming. 00:33:30
Is there anybody else in the audience that like to speak? Please be ready so we can. 00:33:33
Thank you. 00:33:40
I'm Crystal Bianchi and I live at 115 10th St. I share a. 00:33:44
Property line with the property and I do have a problem with the hallway. 00:33:49
Spanning in the back to the fourth bedroom. 00:33:54
It looks right into my master bedroom. 00:33:56
And I think it's. 00:34:00
Way too tall from all angles. 00:34:01
I sent pictures in with a letter. 00:34:04
Umm. 00:34:06
So that's my. 00:34:07
Thoughts on the thing? Thank you. Thank you. 00:34:08
To see anybody else. 00:34:12
Not, not yet, please. 00:34:17
Of if there's nobody else present, I will go to virtual audience. 00:34:19
I'll allow Lisa Chiani to speak. 00:34:24
Thank you. Just first, the errata fails to provide red lining to specifically identify the changes, which is the standard. 00:34:28
Procedure. 00:34:38
Umm. 00:34:39
But in addition to my concerns about the process, I'm concerned about the failure of the draft permit to protect the historical 00:34:40
and archaeological resources. 00:34:45
On this property. 00:34:49
Observing the property in person from 10th and Pearl streets, with story poles and netting in place, it appears that the proposed 00:34:51
remodel will overwhelm the unique existing historic house. 00:34:56
Furthermore, the failure to differentiate the materials will give a very uncharacteristic appearance of bulk and mass. 00:35:02
To the resource and does not comply with Secretary of Interior standards. 00:35:09
The consultant is noncommittal. 00:35:14
Whether the project is consistent with Secretary of Interior standards for differentiating new construction. 00:35:16
Simply presenting the architects opinion the Secretary of Interior standards include. 00:35:22
Quote New additions, exterior alterations, or related new construction shall not destroy historic materials that characterize the 00:35:28
property. The new work. 00:35:33
Shall be differentiated from the old and shall be compatible with the massing size, scale and architectural features. 00:35:38
To protect the historic integrity of the property and its environment. 00:35:45
But the architect seems to think everything should match the original style cladding windows, which is not acceptable and the 00:35:49
addition does not subordinate to the original house. 00:35:54
Please recommend that the project be scaled down and the materials be differentiated. 00:35:59
Staff says no archaeological resources were found and that's simply not conclusive. 00:36:04
The. 00:36:12
It's a standard inadvertent discovery language is not enough protection. Monitoring needs to be provided. At the very least tribal 00:36:14
monitoring for ground disturbing work such as. 00:36:19
Additional. 00:36:26
Or or new footings for the second story edition. 00:36:28
So please. 00:36:33
Request. 00:36:35
Tribal monitoring during ground disturbing work as a condition of approval and in addition. 00:36:36
That's in addition to recommending a scaled down project and differentiation of materials. 00:36:42
Per the Secretary of Interior standards. 00:36:48
And I do just want to say the the clock the timer disappeared. 00:36:51
Thank you. 00:36:59
I'll allow Linga, Inga, Lorenz and Dahmer to speak. 00:37:04
Thank you. 00:37:10
I'm going to say it find it interesting that more projects are coming to you with not the differentiation and materials, and I'm 00:37:12
wondering if planners are working with. 00:37:17
Clients letting them know. 00:37:23
That. 00:37:26
Building materials must be differentiated. 00:37:27
So that you can. 00:37:30
Umm. 00:37:32
See one from the other. 00:37:33
And that that is part of the historical. 00:37:35
Context. 00:37:39
Umm. 00:37:41
We're going to have a loss of a rental unit here, which we found out in an errata. 00:37:43
That's fine, we just. 00:37:48
Can't. 00:37:50
Say that we're adding to housing stock because we're adding to one larger single family home, not housing stock. 00:37:51
And. 00:38:00
This. 00:38:03
This addition is just. 00:38:04
Way too large and it overwhelms this poor little beautiful historical cottage. 00:38:06
Especially the roof line. I mean, it's just. 00:38:15
Woo. 00:38:19
Pretty big. 00:38:21
Pretty the same. 00:38:22
And pretty overwhelming. And the one view from the side is pretty horrific. 00:38:23
Umm. 00:38:29
Consider it. 00:38:32
Carefully please. 00:38:35
Thank you very much. 00:38:36
Thank you. 00:38:39
Will allow Tony Chiani to speak. 00:38:46
Good afternoon, Chair Anton and members of the committee. 00:38:52
The Architecture and Design Considerations portion of the staff report. 00:38:57
States. 00:39:03
The proposed structure. 00:39:04
We'll use exterior colors and materials. 00:39:06
To match the existing structure. 00:39:10
This is the same staff recommending approval of the project. 00:39:15
I don't think this staff has the knowledge or experience. 00:39:18
To understand the Secretary of Interior statements. 00:39:22
The staff did not advise you and did not even put in your report. 00:39:27
That considerations of the pertinent sections and the secretary of interiors standards such as. 00:39:32
The new work. 00:39:38
Shall be differentiated from the old. 00:39:39
And massing shall protect the integrity of the property and its environment. 00:39:42
Or. 00:39:48
That the new use that requires. 00:39:49
That the new use requires minimal change to the distinctive materials, features, spaces. 00:39:52
And spatial relationships. 00:40:00
Merging these buildings Combining 2 historic buildings to be one big building. 00:40:03
Does not. 00:40:09
Protect the spatial relationships. 00:40:10
The data on the plans. 00:40:14
Uh. 00:40:16
Adds up to demonstrate the new edition would exceed 50% what the what the staff just did is, they added. 00:40:17
The flurry of 1 building to the flurry of the other building to say that's. 00:40:25
The the floor area, the total area. 00:40:30
That should be considered for the 50% rule. 00:40:33
That's not how it works. 00:40:36
Again, I don't think staff understands this stuff. 00:40:37
Finally, the proposed additions would. 00:40:41
Connect the architecturally significant building forms. 00:40:43
Which would degrade. 00:40:47
The scale and character of the historical house. 00:40:48
And it would substantially alter the special relationships of the buildings. 00:40:51
Therefore. 00:40:55
It would. 00:40:57
Uh. 00:40:58
Substantially diminish. 00:40:59
The integrity. 00:41:01
Of the the architectural and historical integrity of the site. 00:41:02
I recommend. 00:41:07
That you vote. 00:41:08
To determine that the required findings to approve the project. 00:41:09
Cannot be made. Thank you. 00:41:13
Thank you. 00:41:16
I will allow. 00:41:20
Charles Huff to talk. 00:41:21
And for this for a long, long time. 00:41:24
This is a outrage of a project. 00:41:28
Neither did many of the people in the neighborhood. 00:41:31
Get the true information from it and we all. 00:41:34
Are wondering what's going on here. 00:41:37
Is this gonna be again? This is not. 00:41:38
A house that's being flipped, of which the realtor. 00:41:41
Mentioned it was going to be, but that's just small, the small part of this sneakiness that's going on in terms of. 00:41:44
Matching this in and turning an AU. 00:41:52
Back into regular space. There's a scheme going on here. 00:41:56
And I think. 00:41:59
Again, we live at 122 9th St. 00:42:01
Two-story house. 00:42:04
And it's. 00:42:05
I've never even thought about how. 00:42:07
Weird this whole thing is. 00:42:10
42 years of being an architect and. 00:42:12
Well, anyway, so. 00:42:15
This this has got to be studied a lot more clearly by the planning staff. I would agree with the comment about them. 00:42:18
And I know their hands are tied. 00:42:25
With the 88. 00:42:28
Adu. 00:42:29
Situation but but that's not part of their hands being tied. 00:42:32
So please, please, let's let's talk about this at a later time and and allow. 00:42:35
More people that are on the block and also. 00:42:40
If this gets approved, guess what happens from First St. to 19th St. in the retreat area? 00:42:45
Thank you. 00:42:51
Thank you. 00:42:53
I see no more hands raised. 00:42:58
All right. I'm going to close public comment at this time and we'll have a discussion. 00:43:01
And I would like to speak first. 00:43:07
I did go by and I did spend a lot of time and then I came home and I looked at the the drawings and then I went back again. I am 00:43:17
just so concerned, number one, about the small lot and I'm also concerned about that tree. I do agree it. 00:43:24
When you're starting to build and you hit roots and so forth, you just don't know what's going to happen. 00:43:32
I do feel that the roof line on here is is some. 00:43:37
I and I I think the whole thing is is a little bit overwhelming but I think the plan looking at it looks great but when you go and 00:43:42
you sit in front of the. 00:43:47
House and you you try to figure it out in your head. It it just it. It does seem overwhelming. 00:43:52
Need to call on you. 00:44:04
I'll I'll try. Thank you. I have a problem with the. 00:44:06
The addition roof being actually higher than the original roof line. 00:44:12
On the original building. 00:44:17
And the other problem I have with is you look at the garage and you look at from 10th St. 00:44:19
Towards the now AU, which will be the garage, there's a large part of the upper story that would. 00:44:25
Stick out. 00:44:32
Beyond the. 00:44:33
Original house that looks very It just doesn't seem to fit in. 00:44:35
With the house that would be on the if you look at the house on the right rear. 00:44:40
Upper floor. 00:44:46
I'm sorry, I should speak into this. 00:44:49
I I do have. 00:44:53
You know, a little problem with the messing, especially on the second floor. 00:44:55
Umm. 00:45:00
Otherwise, I don't know if that can be remedied and I I think it's only like 2 feet higher the roof line and that perhaps the 00:45:02
architect can answer why it needs to be higher than the existing roof line. 00:45:08
Let's, let's finish our discussion, OK. Yes, when you get. 00:45:18
What would you like to speak? 00:45:22
OK. 00:45:25
The differentiation of the materials, windows, siding, and so forth. 00:45:26
Is. 00:45:31
Yes, it's an issue. It's not shown on shown on here, but it's easily solved. I'm sure the architect could deal with that one way 00:45:33
or the other, but the massing of this thing is. 00:45:38
I'm sorry, it's astonishing. 00:45:44
Umm. 00:45:48
The historic building. 00:45:50
It is supposed to be dominant here is now. 00:45:52
Very submissive to the, you know, the huge mass of the entire house. 00:45:57
As it would be. 00:46:03
And I think it's way too much. I really do. I think something could be done here, yes. 00:46:06
Umm. 00:46:14
I'm. 00:46:15
Very willing to see an alternate design that's a little more conservative. 00:46:17
That's why I'd like to go a continuation, perhaps something like that? 00:46:24
Jennifer. 00:46:29
I have a couple of things. One is I'm a little bit concerned with our current inventory about the loss of the Adu, but that's 00:46:31
really a city decision. 00:46:36
Not something we decide. 00:46:41
Umm. 00:46:43
From looking at the phase one and Phase 2 reports, it would appear the area is archaeologically sensitive and should require 00:46:45
archaeological monitoring by a certified archaeologist. 00:46:50
Even though they. 00:46:56
It's mentioned that they won't be disturbing the ground. It's hard to imagine. 00:46:57
Doing an addition without distributing the ground. 00:47:02
And then, as everyone said, for the Secretary of Interior standards, the shingles cannot match the existing shingles, so they have 00:47:05
to be different, as do the other elements of the addition. 00:47:10
I feel that the driveway should be permeable. I know the rule is 60% coverage, but I think. 00:47:17
As it stands now, this is quite close to 60% coverage. I haven't done all the math. And then finally, I just think there are too 00:47:23
many roof lines. It's just too overpowering for the original structure and agree with everybody here that it's just a little bit 00:47:28
too much. 00:47:33
That's all. 00:47:38
My turn. So I'm looking. 00:47:44
At a DPR form from 2013 and it says. 00:47:47
And I'm quoting here. Rear editions that have respected the scale of the original of the original building are generally 00:47:53
acceptable. 00:47:57
Oh. 00:48:02
Did that say Matt Damon? 00:48:04
Sorry. 00:48:07
All right, let me read that again. We're additions that have respected the scale of the original building are generally 00:48:09
acceptable. However, additions that compromise the buildings form and scale are not acceptable. 00:48:15
And again, I'm reading that from a DPR form. 00:48:21
And then I'm reading from. 00:48:24
This is a guideline for the City of Pacific Grove. Again, it's a guideline. This is not, you know, set in stone, but. 00:48:27
A building should be in scale with its sight. 00:48:36
Guideline #27 Guideline #28. An addition should complement and balance the overall form, mass, and composition of the existing 00:48:40
building. 00:48:44
And there's more text to go with that. 00:48:49
Umm. 00:48:52
I I want to say kind of overall, I'm happy to see that the facade of the house that we see when we walk by is not going to change 00:48:53
because that is. 00:48:57
You know what makes this house really very unique? With its special little eyebrow? 00:49:02
Part of the roof and the Nate, the Playhouse, and so forth. 00:49:07
But if you step back, you're going to see this new roof up above this little house. And I just think that's. 00:49:11
That's just not right. I I. 00:49:18
When I look at the. 00:49:20
He called you, called it a breezeway. 00:49:22
Which is a fairly long breezeway, and it seems to me that the whole thing in the back could be brought in and shrunk and still. 00:49:25
Still achieve what you're trying to do, which is have those extra bedrooms and I understand, you know, they need more room. 00:49:33
But it just the the whole thing seems a little massive to me. 00:49:40
Siding has been spoken about and so forth. 00:49:47
I think the height of the building just really out of respect to the neighbors. 00:49:52
I I realize we don't have. 00:49:56
Any kind of ordinance about? 00:49:58
You know, protecting people's view or anything or shade. 00:50:00
Shading in somebody's house, but I think there's a matter of respect involved here as well, where we could make some compromises 00:50:04
to. 00:50:08
You know we have to all live together here in this small town and. 00:50:12
You know, we're not against building the house and we're not. And we're it's great that it's being added to the back of the house. 00:50:18
The house, the original house, will stand on its own. All of that part is good. 00:50:25
But I'm just not comfortable with them this, this massive design that we're seeing in front of us. 00:50:30
So with that Mister Ortiz, if. 00:50:39
You have a lot to respond to if you'd like. 00:50:41
I'm sorry but. 00:50:44
Respond to all those comments. 00:50:53
Umm. 00:50:55
Where do we start? Let me go back to my notes here. 00:50:56
So. 00:50:59
Mr. Ortiz, your mic on it is. Can you hear me? 00:51:00
Little closer. 00:51:04
Ohh is that better? OK. 00:51:05
Sorry. 00:51:07
So where where do I start? 00:51:08
There were some comments about the immediate neighbors that had issues with some window privacy and. 00:51:12
And the massing of the structure, I think when it comes to the windows we can definitely work with a neighbour and and minimize 00:51:19
that impact either. 00:51:23
Remove the windows, change them. 00:51:27
Do something to that to to that effect. 00:51:29
An issue regarding the OR concern regarding the tree, the plan does show that we are going to cantilever a good portion of that 00:51:33
area of the addition. 00:51:38
To preserve the three roots, and so so we do have a concept. 00:51:44
To. To salvation in and really, you know, maintain that tree, so. 00:51:49
We are dealing, we were concerned about that and and it is shown in the plans that we are kind of levering the portion of it. 00:51:54
To keep the footings away from it. 00:51:59
So. 00:52:01
Hopefully that addresses that concern, but we're not touching three in our. 00:52:03
Our our goal is to preserve it. It's a beautiful tree and it's a significant and. 00:52:07
And it's something that we want to keep. 00:52:11
The other concern it was regarding the height and the mass of the of the addition, right. I think that's the biggest concern that 00:52:15
everybody has. 00:52:18
And one of your point your question was why is the addition some masses and and so tall and. 00:52:22
A simple answer to that is that we were we're we're keeping the the finished floors at at the same level in the second story. So 00:52:28
we're we're building the second story addition. 00:52:33
At the same level of the existing. 00:52:37
Finish floor. 00:52:40
But that doesn't have to be that way. I mean, since it's a concern we we can massage it a little bit and and. 00:52:41
Add some steps and. 00:52:48
That will help reduce the massing of the addition. 00:52:50
I can also alter the pitch on the roof a little bit and make some accommodations and reduce the height so that the. 00:52:53
That the roof. 00:53:00
Of the new addition. 00:53:02
It's. 00:53:03
Equal or lower than the existing roof, so I can definitely work on something like that and. 00:53:04
Massage the addition to do that. So there's. 00:53:09
An option to reduce some massing to completely get rid of the second story? That's. 00:53:12
Significant alteration to the concept, I feel that. 00:53:18
Overall, if you look at that. 00:53:21
From a from a plan view, if you look at the footprint, the second story addition is. 00:53:23
Very minimal. 00:53:29
Compared to the footprint of the addition itself. 00:53:30
It's a very small addition when you're looking at a. 00:53:33
At a. At a plan? At a single. 00:53:36
Playing out of 1 view, you're looking at the mass. 00:53:38
All in one level. 00:53:40
And. 00:53:42
If you if. 00:53:43
If you look at it, if you study it from a three-dimensional perspective. 00:53:44
The second story edition is. 00:53:47
Much, much smaller. 00:53:49
And so I feel that that can be probably convey better with. 00:53:50
Some 3 dimensional drawings. 00:53:56
To to demonstrate that. 00:53:57
But getting rid of the second story or making some other alterations, I think there will be a significant alteration to the 00:53:59
design. 00:54:02
But I can definitely go over the the roof lines and produce all the massing. 00:54:06
Change the windows in the back to. 00:54:10
You know, maintain some privacy to the neighbors. 00:54:12
The three is not going to be affected at all. 00:54:14
By the addition. 00:54:17
Again, the goal here is to maintain that. 00:54:19
The existing cottage and we're doing that. 00:54:21
And the point that when you're on the street looking at the cottage and you gotta see this roof line overwhelming. 00:54:24
Above the existing structure, that's not true because when you look at. 00:54:29
And any structure from an angle. 00:54:33
You know the the further away the smaller fields. You probably will not see the second story addition, but if we lowered it that 00:54:36
will definitely help. 00:54:40
But it's not. 00:54:44
It's not true that you're gonna be on the street looking at the structure and see a massive addition in the back. That's not the 00:54:46
case. 00:54:48
This is. That's uh. You're looking at A1 dimensional drawing here, and you're making assumptions based on that. 00:54:52
So. 00:54:57
But I can clearly demonstrate that. 00:54:58
With some 3 dimensional drawings next time, next time I come back. 00:55:00
And I would love to make some. 00:55:03
Changes per your recommendations, you know to to the massing the windows. I'm not concerned about three. I think we're gonna be 00:55:05
able to maintain that. 00:55:09
You know, there were other concerns about they were bringing up regarding the. 00:55:14
The architectural style and. 00:55:20
And that we're blending in this two masses and and and. 00:55:22
Mixing the spatial. 00:55:28
You know entities and and so on I. 00:55:30
You know, that's a personal opinion. The bottom line is. 00:55:33
You know, we're delineating the addition from the existing. 00:55:36
Very well on this design. 00:55:40
That's demonstrated really well. 00:55:43
And it is true that we could add some notes to the plans to to. 00:55:45
Differentiate the materials. 00:55:50
You know, window casing, trim work, shingle sizing. We've done that on other projects. So where we we show a different size on the 00:55:53
shingles to demonstrate the difference between the historic and. 00:55:58
And and the the new. 00:56:03
The proposal so we can add more notes and elements to to to clarify. 00:56:05
And and and and. 00:56:10
Provide a clear. 00:56:12
View of what's existing and what's pros. 00:56:14
But the other personal opinions that everybody has regarding. 00:56:16
The massing. Not the massing, but the design, the spatial concept. That's a personal opinion, I feel that. 00:56:19
We have a good design. We minimize. 00:56:26
There's a very minimal impact to the historical fabric of this building, and I hope you guys can. 00:56:29
Understand that and see that value, and we can definitely work with reducing some of the massing. 00:56:34
To help your your your point to and I agree with your point, so we can definitely do that. 00:56:40
Umm. 00:56:44
And and I believe. 00:56:46
You know overall that we can definitely make some arrangements to. 00:56:49
Meet your criteria. If if that's a direction that you would like me to go is make some. 00:56:53
Alterations to the massing. 00:56:58
Work on the windows. 00:56:59
Create some more. I want notes and to differentiate between. 00:57:02
The historical and and the new. In addition to all this, I do want to say that when it comes to. 00:57:06
Excavation. 00:57:12
And archaeological findings. 00:57:14
The code is very specific on how it's done. 00:57:16
And. 00:57:20
Uh. 00:57:21
It is I. 00:57:22
Done projects that are much much more. 00:57:23
Significant in this when it comes to excavation and historical properties, although those rules have changed, but the the point 00:57:26
that I'm trying to make, we're doing standard. 00:57:30
Footings here, we're not excavating for basements or anything of that sort. 00:57:35
To the. 00:57:40
Point to somebody made that we need a tribal. 00:57:41
Monitoring, That's extreme. 00:57:45
That is not necessary. 00:57:47
Because. 00:57:49
You know the the the law is very specific on how it needs to be done and reported when something is found. 00:57:51
You know, it's very it's very specific on what needs, what steps need to be taken. 00:57:56
Umm. 00:58:01
I feel that we don't need monitoring at all. 00:58:02
The the consultant feels the same way, but if you feel otherwise, that's you know. 00:58:05
We'll we'll respect your opinion and we'll work with you. 00:58:10
I I don't feel that a tribal. 00:58:12
Monitoring is necessary because those require. 00:58:15
Those can delay projects. I've dealt with that before, but I feel that if we can get a consultant, a license consultant to be on 00:58:20
site. 00:58:24
That's that's I think should meet everybody's criteria. 00:58:28
And and we can work on under that criteria, but I don't think it's necessary. 00:58:31
So with that, I mean, if there's any more questions, I will. 00:58:35
You're more than happy to answer them. 00:58:38
Well, I I just would like to say that we're we're concerned about keeping the the house, but we're also concerned about keeping 00:58:41
the neighborhood sure as well. 00:58:46
And then I want to mention having I live down on 16th St. We've had tribal monitoring ever since they started digging. 00:58:51
I mean it, it's a sensitive area in the retreat area and. 00:58:59
Anything you start digging it will require it. So that's something to look into. Yeah, like I said, I'm I if if you feel that we 00:59:04
should have monitoring. 00:59:09
Again, I respect her. It's a requirement. 00:59:14
Well, it's up to, it's up to, it's up to the consultant to specify that it's not, it's not a requirement, it's up to the 00:59:17
consultant after consultant feels that it's necessary. Then we have to abide by that after consulting fields. 00:59:23
That is not. 00:59:28
Then we don't have to, although you have the ultimate say so and you can override that. And like I said, I respect your opinion, 00:59:30
but I don't think we should have a tribal. 00:59:33
Because that entails. 00:59:38
A different layering of. 00:59:40
How that gets done and if and out of respect for the homeowners of this property and the builders and the contractors who wanna 00:59:41
be, if we can just have. 00:59:45
A professional archaeologist to monitor. 00:59:50
The excavation, I think that would be adequate. 00:59:54
But to force to put a tribal, you know? 00:59:56
To to go to that extent. 01:00:01
I I I feel I would ask that you would at least understand the process and. 01:00:03
And and respect also the homeowners. 01:00:09
You know project and process as you build it and so again. 01:00:12
If you feel like we need to have. 01:00:16
Monitoring. 01:00:18
I'll leave it up to you. 01:00:19
Does anybody else have any questions? 01:00:21
I apologize because I don't. I can't find in here the floor plan to refer to, but I my question is about the breezeway. What is 01:00:24
the actual purpose of the breezeway other than getting person from point A to point B on the 1st floor? I think the 2nd floor is 01:00:30
just a pass through, but I wasn't sure on the 1st floor and I was thinking that without the breezeway would certainly condense the 01:00:35
house. 01:00:40
And make it a little bit. 01:00:46
Less. 01:00:48
Large. 01:00:48
Right now I I think you misunderstood when I was saying earlier I said hallway breezeway and and. 01:00:50
It's a hallway. 01:00:56
You, you. If you take the hallway, the breeze away, away, what you're doing is you. You're taking the addition. 01:00:58
That the the master bedroom is like and now you're. 01:01:03
Joining it with the existing structure you're gonna remove. 01:01:07
90% of that facade of that of the existing historical fabric on the existing structure by removing the hallway and condensing the 01:01:11
substructure. 01:01:16
Now that's completely against what our concept was and our design was to. 01:01:21
To maintain. 01:01:26
As much as possible as a historical structure, so the breezeway. 01:01:28
Hallway is important in the design to maintain the separation because again. 01:01:32
It was brought up earlier. 01:01:37
That you need to differentiate. 01:01:40
It's it's not just with materials, but also if you can do it structurally. 01:01:42
It's even more. 01:01:46
I I would think history historian would appreciate that. 01:01:48
More so by really understanding that where the. 01:01:51
Existing and proposed star and begins. 01:01:54
And I feel that this project does that really well. 01:01:57
Again, I like I said before what many other historical projects and we sometimes. 01:02:00
Remove a substantial amount of the rear portion of the building that is not visible from the street or from public view. 01:02:05
To create additions this project. Again it's only removing 8. 01:02:12
Feet 3 inches out of 105 linear feet of exterior fabric, I think that's. 01:02:16
In itself great. And and then from the street from I believe, 11th St. 01:02:22
If you if when this structure is built. 01:02:26
And you're walking on that street, you're not going to see that the additional hardly at all. 01:02:29
And that existing structure is going to be preserved as is. 01:02:34
So I, you know, I think this is a win win in many scenarios. I know that if you go around the block you will see the structure. 01:02:39
Well that's that's. 01:02:43
With any project there's been. 01:02:48
Been many projects in the city of Pacific Grove that I that I've noticed that. 01:02:49
Have additions on a corner lot and the addition was done to the side and it was a substantial. 01:02:53
Addition. 01:02:57
And those projects got approved and in our historic. 01:02:58
Are are. At least ours is not visible from the public right away. 01:03:02
As as he as easy so. 01:03:06
Again, I I feel like we have a good project. I hope you feel the same way. I'm willing to make some. 01:03:09
Alterations to the design lower the mass. 01:03:13
You know, create some more privacy, talk to the neighbors and identify those issues. 01:03:17
But umm. 01:03:21
But if that if that if if that feels appropriate, I would love to. 01:03:23
Moving that path with your approval on that. 01:03:27
I have just a question actually. It's on the on the garage, that door you're, is that a what type of door are you putting on that 01:03:31
garage? That's what's called a carriage door. It looks like a door that you know. 01:03:37
Swings out. 01:03:44
To me, it looks like it overwhelms the house. 01:03:46
Well, again, you're looking at a single. 01:03:49
Plane. 01:03:52
Black and white drawing when it's painted, when the colors are vivid, when you look at a three-dimensional in that's. 01:03:53
40 feet back. 01:04:00
From the front of the building. 01:04:01
You know it reduces in scales further back. It's not on your face as you're walking on the street. 01:04:03
It's. 01:04:08
It would be like saying that the. 01:04:08
The existing AD in the back is overwhelming from the street. When you when you walk on the street, you barely see that's the 01:04:11
structure is tucked in the back in the corner. 01:04:15
So again, you're looking at A1 plane elevation here, so everything is on your face, but in reality in three, in a 01:04:19
three-dimensional perspective, that's far back. 01:04:24
And and the weekend. And if, if it is a concern of yours, you know we could. 01:04:28
Umm. 01:04:33
Play with colors and and and make it blend in better. 01:04:34
I'm always with the opinion that. 01:04:39
When we can, although you can do it in small lots although. 01:04:40
We are doing it on this property is to push the garage as far. 01:04:43
Back as possible. I don't like seeing the garage doors or become the main feature of the front elevation. I personally don't like 01:04:46
that and that's. 01:04:50
One of the reasons why? 01:04:54
We have the garage in the back, I mean and also it's a small lot and you don't have a choice but. 01:04:55
Point the point that I'm trying to make is you will not see the garage. It's not going to be overwhelming, it's not going to be on 01:05:00
your face, but again, if you feel that. 01:05:04
It's gonna be. 01:05:09
Imposing we can. 01:05:10
You can make a recommendation to. 01:05:12
Put. 01:05:13
Colors that will blend in. 01:05:14
One other question I have is UMM has has an upper. 01:05:16
Embarrassed. 01:05:19
Arborist. Thank you. Has he checked that tree at all? We have not, because we are maintaining A substantial distance away from the 01:05:21
root system. 01:05:25
Again, if you feel that's the concern, we can consult with with an arborist, but. 01:05:29
On my plan on the elevation, I believe it's on the. 01:05:33
On the east elevation, you'll see right there we have 4 feet 10 inches cantilever floor joists and that's for a reason as to 01:05:37
maintain. 01:05:41
The distance away from the the three I. 01:05:45
You know, it's been a while since I worked on this project we. 01:05:47
It's taking a long time to get to this point. 01:05:50
It's a significant amount of time and. 01:05:53
But I believe let me see how far away the. 01:05:56
The the trunk of the tree is. 01:06:00
Approximately once my computer, so approximately right now the the the front of the building to the three is roughly about 8 feet 01:06:03
and then we're adding another four feet beyond that, so almost 1213 feet. 01:06:08
Is where the footing is going to be. 01:06:15
To the three. 01:06:17
And usually what we do in those scenarios, if that's a concern with an arborist. 01:06:18
Usually the recommendation is to use hand digging around this area. 01:06:23
You can't use heavy equipment to to excavate around us. 01:06:27
You know, in case you. 01:06:30
Find it a root. So there's, you know, recommendations you can make that we can. 01:06:31
Apply to the project and. 01:06:36
You know, make it more successful and. 01:06:39
Appealing to everybody, everybody. 01:06:41
It's not just about the truth about the roots, it's about the canopy too. 01:06:43
We're significantly away about where the roots. 01:06:47
Through and that's why we would consult with a with an arborist point. I agree. 01:06:51
That would be. 01:06:57
Certainly be a thing that needs to be done, but it seems to me that the major. 01:06:59
Design characteristic of the existing. 01:07:05
Historic home. 01:07:08
Is the low roof line and the really steep roof. It's a lot of roof and not much wall. 01:07:10
Right. So 1 1/2 stories, correct? 01:07:16
And nowhere in your design is that repeated and I'm wondering. 01:07:19
You can see your own. 01:07:25
What gutter lines and things are way above the window level? 01:07:31
And the roofs are relatively shallow. 01:07:36
I know there's not a whole lot. You can't just throw big steep roofs everywhere. 01:07:40
But I would really think the design would be improved if you could find a places for that to happen. I mean, I I I could. 01:07:46
You have to keep two things in mind though. One is that by doing that now you're creating a condition that is mimicking the 01:07:56
historical building, which is one of the. 01:08:01
Comments that was brought up earlier to create some differentiation between these two structures, which I'm accomplishing. 01:08:07
By doing this but. 01:08:12
To make it blend in more, you're contradicting what we're doing here, but we can study that concept #2. 01:08:14
By creating that because we have very narrow structure. 01:08:21
See, that concept of that of that you're that you're describing works really well with a wider footprint. 01:08:24
Because you have a higher pitch and you're able to tuck a structure. 01:08:30
In the in the in the pitch of the roof. 01:08:34
When you have a narrow building. 01:08:36
You even if you put a high pitch roof, you're not gonna have the ability to create a second story. You either gonna have to make a 01:08:38
wider footprint. 01:08:41
Create more mass which you're contradicting my concept here or? 01:08:44
I don't know. I mean it's just I I just feel again that what we have here is successful in the sense that. 01:08:51
It's minimal. 01:08:56
It differentiates the what's historic and not. 01:08:58
But we can explore that option and see if that's something you want me to entertain. But I feel like the character of the historic 01:09:02
building too and that's one way to do it and I think that's a pretty good way to do it. But it's just one suggestion, right, 01:09:07
right. I mean we looked at a lot of those scenarios when we started this we when we when we designed this homes we we do different 01:09:11
schematics of. 01:09:16
You know bulk and mass and things of that nature to see what? 01:09:21
Fits better. It's like we just Draw Something, say. 01:09:25
You know, produce it so. 01:09:27
Again, to your point, the 1 1/2 stories work works well with a wider footprint. We don't have that option here. 01:09:29
You know, we're also limited by floor areas and. 01:09:36
And and and setbacks. We have a setback. 01:09:40
On the second story, that pushes the lower story to comply with their having concern with that. 01:09:42
You know, so there's a lot of other envelopes that originally this building, some of it work. 01:09:48
Like I said. 01:09:53
We can reduce the mass, lower the massing, you know, make sure that it the the the roof is not above the existing. We can work 01:09:54
with those details. 01:09:59
You know. 01:10:04
Again, I would love to have some direction. 01:10:05
On how to proceed. 01:10:07
I, you know, I don't want to come back and. 01:10:09
Do something. What I love to do is. 01:10:11
What we have here try to minimize that massing. Lower the rich the height. 01:10:13
And and provide some 3 dimensional drawing so you can understand better how the second story missing. 01:10:17
Fits. 01:10:23
With the overall bulk and mass of the entire structure because you're looking at. 01:10:24
One dimension. You're looking at one plane, so you read the whole entire thing as. But there is depth. 01:10:29
Do you have to take into consideration too? 01:10:34
And we wanna add protecting the tree. 01:10:38
Sure. 01:10:41
You know, like I said, we already have. 01:10:42
You know, our setbacks away, we're kind of levering. 01:10:43
Portions of that, but you can. 01:10:47
Definitely recommend that we clarify those details. 01:10:49
So do you have a list of all the things we've said OK? 01:10:56
Hearing is being recorded. 01:11:02
Recording will be live there. Will be available soon. 01:11:05
Yeah. 01:11:08
All right. Mr. Ortiz. Thank you very much. And we will see you again. Yes, thank you. 01:11:09
Appreciate your your input. Thank you. All right. 01:11:16
All right, let me catch. 01:11:21
All right. We will now move to item number 8B. 01:11:25
And this is where we need to speak with the. 01:11:32
Can we make a motion to continue that item? I'm sorry, a motion to continue this item. Sorry. Ohh, yes, OK. Do do we have a motion 01:11:37
to continue? Item 8A? 01:11:42
I'm sorry. 01:11:47
Please. 01:11:51
Continue. 01:11:55
Continue. 01:11:57
Do we have a second? 01:11:59
I say thank you. 01:12:01
Roll call vote please. 01:12:03
Member Grannis. 01:12:05
Member Greening. 01:12:07
Aye. 01:12:09
Chair Anton. 01:12:10
Aye. 01:12:11
Vice chair steers. 01:12:12
Member Bickett. 01:12:15
Motion passes. 01:12:18
5 to 0 and one vacancy. 01:12:20
To continue the item too. Alright, before I go on, I'm if the people in the audience are here for the the possible deletions. 01:12:27
We don't have a quorum. I was hoping that our secretary would show up. She's not here. None of us have heard from her. 01:12:37
That we have two people that have to recuse from that because they own a house and that item or live there in that area. 01:12:43
That leaves only three of us, which is. 01:12:51
Not a quorum. 01:12:53
128. 01:12:57
All right. So 128 Caledonia, we can here, but we can't hear the ones on. 01:13:01
Pacific or the one on Grove St. 01:13:06
And I apologize. I kept hoping she would show up and she isn't here so. 01:13:09
And normally I wouldn't take questions, but. 01:13:15
I'm sorry. 01:13:20
Our meetings are usually the fourth Wednesday of the month. 01:13:23
If you're Is that the one you can hear? 01:13:33
All right. We have a quorum for 128, but but it will not be we have other business to before we get to that. 01:13:36
If you look at our agenda. 01:13:43
It will come soon. 01:13:46
OK. 01:13:48
Yes, you may. Since it is agenda is you, you can still take public comment on those. 01:13:50
Even if it's being contained each one of them separately, well. 01:13:56
No, not going to do that. I'm just going to we'll just just. OK Yeah, just on the one, sorry. 01:13:59
I'm sorry, yes. 01:14:05
And 112. 01:14:23
Saying. 01:14:25
Ohh OK. 01:14:27
Anything on that side? 01:14:28
Is OK. 01:14:30
All right, let's get on to item B. 01:14:36
8B 01:14:38
Do we have the chief of Board? 01:14:45
I am here. 01:14:48
Yes, I'm here. 01:14:50
Good afternoon, commissioners, staff and members of the public. 01:14:51
I was asked to attend your meeting today to provide information and. 01:14:54
Answer questions on a proposed working group. 01:14:59
I apologize, I'm unable to be there in person today. 01:15:02
So the purpose of the group is to provide communication. 01:15:06
Amongst the boards and commissions. 01:15:10
To create better collaboration on projects and programs for the community. 01:15:12
And a brief summary of. 01:15:18
What the working group would look like is on a voluntary basis. 01:15:19
One member from each board and Commission. 01:15:23
We'll meet at a cadence of the group's choosing. 01:15:26
To share programs, projects, issues, or concerns that are being discussed on each member's respective board. 01:15:30
That member will return to their respective boards and provide an update on areas that would directly reflect or impact their 01:15:38
specific board. 01:15:43
Similar to how our council liaison brings an update from the previous council meeting to our boards. 01:15:48
This will not involve staff or council time. 01:15:55
I am willing to. I will be attending and the first meeting to facilitate. 01:15:59
And help the group establish a meeting cadence and parameters for the meeting to ensure that there are no Brown Act violations. 01:16:05
Members will be able to go back to their respective boards. 01:16:14
And they can provide reports, as I just stated, just like like we do for our staff and liaison reports. Unless there is 01:16:18
substantive discussion or action that is required, then the item should be properly agendized for that specific border Commission 01:16:24
for further discussion. 01:16:31
So again, I want to reiterate that this is just information sharing only. No discussions or suggestions should be made on specific 01:16:38
matters if. 01:16:44
If a member of another board has a suggestion about a matter, they need to then attend that next meeting and provide it during 01:16:50
public comment at the appropriate time. 01:16:55
This I will also note that this has been vetted and approved by the City Council, City Attorney. 01:17:01
It's determined not to be a Brown Act violation because only one member from each board or Commission will be participating. 01:17:07
So that's all I have in regard to the working group and I'd be happy to answer any questions that. 01:17:14
The Community or the Commission may have. 01:17:20
Thank you. 01:17:22
Thank you and I'll go to public comment. 01:17:24
We have anybody present they'd like to speak. 01:17:27
Do we have anybody virtually that would like to speak to this? 01:17:31
We have one hand raised. I'll allow Inga, Lawrence and Dahmer to speak. 01:17:35
These. 01:17:39
Thank you. 01:17:43
Historical Resources Committee and Chair. 01:17:46
When I first heard this at the Traffic and Safety Commission ago a few months ago, I guess I thought it was a good idea. 01:17:50
I now see it as a devolvement into way. 01:17:58
To have another little backroom consortium to get around the Brown Act and maybe have a lobbying committee, I don't know. Anyway, 01:18:03
this doesn't sound particularly good at this point and no committee has jumped on it. And if the attorney says, Oh no, that 01:18:12
committee won't be violating a Brown Act, well, we do have a city attorney that goes by the letter of the law. 01:18:22
Not. 01:18:32
Necessarily applied to Pacific Groves specifically and what happens, but yes, OK, so here we are and at this point I don't think 01:18:33
it's a good idea. 01:18:39
Thank you very much. 01:18:46
Thank you. 01:18:49
Any help? 01:18:52
Anyone else? 01:18:53
I see no other hands raised. 01:18:54
All right, closing public comment, and I'll just say I know that Jill Cleese has offered. 01:18:56
To be our representative and. 01:19:02
I'll I'll be happy to be the alternative. She can't attend. 01:19:06
Because I'm a little curious about what it's about, but. 01:19:10
So does it? Is it anybody else want to be on this committee? 01:19:14
Do you have any questions for the chief? 01:19:17
No. 01:19:20
All right, I think we probably should have a vote to to. 01:19:22
Recognize Jill as our. 01:19:26
Representative. 01:19:29
So can I have a motion to that effect? 01:19:30
We're being asked to provide somebody now or is this a question, do we or do we not provide somebody? 01:19:34
Ohh, we could, we could. Well, we could do that if you'd like. 01:19:41
I don't think. 01:19:45
You're going to tell the chief no? 01:19:46
I think. 01:19:49
Ohh, by. By all means, Madam Chair, if I may. This is a voluntary. 01:19:50
You don't have to have a member from your board or Commission to participate. It is voluntary for each board and Commission. 01:19:55
We have. I have gotten responses from other boards and commissions. 01:20:02
For those that would like to participate. 01:20:06
I think the question is, do we want to have a representative? That's what you're asking, right? And I have a representative and do 01:20:10
they have to attend every single meeting, even if it they don't? 01:20:14
Pertain to. 01:20:19
The things that this committee. 01:20:21
Is concerned with excuse me, vice chair steers good in the mic. You're not you're not recording it good. 01:20:23
And immeasurably to the amount of complexity and confusion among. 01:20:31
Boards and commissions. 01:20:38
In the city if we. 01:20:40
If we have all of them talking that each one of them. 01:20:42
It sounds like a big mess to me. 01:20:47
Well. 01:20:51
I'm looking at the recommended action which is 1 committee member to voluntarily join the new boards and commissions. 01:20:53
Umm. 01:21:00
So maybe we have to have two votes on. Do we want to have a representative Would be one vote and. 01:21:02
And then recognizing the person that volunteered me the second vote. Would that work? Correct. Sure. That's fine. 01:21:08
All right. Do you want to make a motion for the first one? 01:21:15
I think we should not do it. 01:21:19
Do we have a second? 01:21:21
I'd say the the vote. 01:21:26
It seems to me that if we have two people that are willing to do it, why not? 01:21:28
It's not like. 01:21:34
You know no one wants to do it. 01:21:34
Do we have a second to the to the? 01:21:37
Motion. 01:21:40
All right, Motion dies for with lack of second. Sorry, Rick. 01:21:42
So can we have? 01:21:46
A vote to to approve Jill being our representative. 01:21:49
I move that we. 01:21:55
Ask a joke, please, to be our representative. 01:21:57
Umm. 01:22:00
And. 01:22:02
That's it. 01:22:03
That's good. 01:22:04
Do we have a second? 01:22:05
Do we have a second? Come on, I want to move along and get to the next house. Second. Thank you. Can we have a roll call vote 01:22:06
please? 01:22:09
Chair, would you mind clarifying the motion and clarify to that Jill is? 01:22:15
Not just being asked. Or is she? She volunteered. 01:22:20
OK, so she will. 01:22:24
The motion is that she. 01:22:26
Will be the represented. 01:22:27
Thank you. 01:22:29
OK. 01:22:33
Ohh, roll call member Grannis. 01:22:34
Aye. 01:22:37
Member Beckett Ohh. 01:22:38
Vice chair steers. 01:22:42
Aye. 01:22:44
Chair Anton. 01:22:46
Aye. 01:22:48
And member greening. 01:22:50
Aye. 01:22:52
Motion Passes 50. 01:22:54
One vacancy. 01:22:57
And Mr. McGowan, would you let Miss Cleese know that? 01:22:59
She's official. 01:23:04
I don't know when the meeting start but. 01:23:05
We'll let her know. 01:23:07
Yes. All right. Next is item 8C, which was pulled from the agenda. Again, my apologies to the audience here, but. 01:23:09
I said we had a lot of business, so 8C is. 01:23:16
The review and approve the proposal from Page and Turnbull and I believe. 01:23:21
Anastasia is presenting this one. 01:23:27
Am I correct? Yes, Miss Wyatt. 01:23:30
Good afternoon, Chair Anton and members of the HRC this. 01:23:33
Before you is the page and Turnbull. 01:23:39
Proposal. 01:23:43
That was provided. 01:23:45
And we are asking for your approval of the proposal. 01:23:47
The HRC received a presentation from Page and Turnbull. 01:23:53
Let on July 26 to explain the scope of work goals of the HRC. 01:23:59
And presentation of the neighborhood character list and potential historic districts. 01:24:04
And we requested that Page and Turnbull prepared this. 01:24:09
Proposal that you have in your packet. 01:24:15
And just so you know, this this. 01:24:18
UH project is budgeted for this fiscal year, so we are able to move forward with a contract with them. It was approved by City 01:24:21
Council in the fiscal year budget, so. 01:24:26
If you have any further questions, I'm here. I did want to say I I apologize for the very lengthy staff report on this. I just 01:24:33
wanted to go through and make sure we document where we have been and where we are to this point. 01:24:40
And with the HRC and the need to ensure we have a neighbourhood character. 01:24:48
List. So that is the main point of this. Thank you. 01:24:55
Thank you. Do we have any? 01:24:58
Audience. 01:25:02
Anybody that would like to speak and then the audience, do you have anybody virtually that would like to speak? 01:25:03
1. 01:25:09
We have one hand raised. Allow Lisa Chiani to speak. 01:25:10
Thank you. I had one question and then a couple of comments, but. 01:25:15
I. 01:25:20
Wonder why this this? 01:25:21
Document. 01:25:25
Ends on page 6 of 14. It's in the terms and conditions and. 01:25:26
And so I wondered what became of the other. 01:25:31
I can't do the math. 01:25:35
The other pages I I'm hoping, I I do hope that that page and Turnbull will be. 01:25:38
Helping. 01:25:49
Develop a clearly defined permit review process, whether that's. 01:25:50
In this part. 01:25:56
Or just. 01:25:57
Making that a goal for the next part, but because it is not clear and I don't think that that projects that get a. 01:25:58
Phase one report. 01:26:08
And it says. 01:26:10
Ohh it. It appears to qualify for the HRI. And yet they go on. 01:26:12
To a RB who? 01:26:20
In the most recent case with the Pat Hathaway house. 01:26:23
It didn't. 01:26:27
Bothered with a phase two report and didn't understand the importance of the building. 01:26:28
But so we need a clearly defined permit. 01:26:34
Review process and archaeology. We are not covering archaeology on any of our boards and commissions. 01:26:37
And this seems the logical 1 to do that and so I would like to see what they suggest and I hope you're all aware of the 01:26:44
archaeological resource and and tribal monitoring protocol that. 01:26:52
The city contracted for. 01:27:01
Several years ago and it's finally going to be at Planning Commission in September and it's available for review until in public 01:27:03
comment until September 1st at 4:00. 01:27:09
So those are my 2 requests. 01:27:16
Thank you. 01:27:19
Thank you. 01:27:20
I see one more hand raised. I will allow Inga Lorenzen Dahmer to speak. 01:27:23
Thank you. 01:27:31
I agree completely with what Lisa Ciani said. 01:27:34
And would like to add that I very much want to see a neighborhood character list compiled and done. 01:27:39
And that's only gonna be as good as what records the staff has kept to to furnish Page and Turnbull. 01:27:46
With all the ones that you have added from our public deletions or not or additions in these meetings. 01:27:54
I want to make. 01:28:03
Certain that they are accurate compiled list. 01:28:04
Of referrals to. 01:28:10
Neighborhood character list. 01:28:13
And. 01:28:15
I'm not sure how that is really going to be accomplished, but I'm hoping. 01:28:17
And. 01:28:24
All the other things are just. 01:28:25
Stay on top of it because we need. 01:28:28
A process for additions. 01:28:32
We absolutely. 01:28:35
Need that to happen. 01:28:37
Thank you very much. 01:28:39
Thank you. 01:28:42
As you know, their hands raised. 01:28:45
All right. I'll close public comment, bring the discussion back here. 01:28:49
Any comments? 01:28:55
On the on the document that you have. 01:28:57
I mean, my concern in reading it is I feel like there's a lot of language. 01:29:02
That's way out here, and I am for right here. I mean, I really want to focus on getting a neighborhood character list and not all 01:29:08
this other stuff that goes along with it. Because there's to me, there's a lot of kind of. 01:29:15
What do I want to say? Kind of repeating things maybe we already know and that we're already doing and I and. 01:29:23
We we have been deleting. 01:29:28
Not a lot, but some houses and and they are. The information should be in all of our minutes from each of our meetings. 01:29:31
So it shouldn't be any difficult task to go back and find them. 01:29:39
We haven't been doing this for very long. 01:29:43
But I just want to get to the nitty gritty and get this done and hopefully timely. 01:29:46
So that's my comment and does that. 01:29:55
So I guess that then my question is when, when do we meet with them and do we meet with them as a whole group or just a couple of 01:29:58
us or how? How miss Wyatt, how do we? 01:30:03
Proceed. 01:30:07
I think we have two. 01:30:10
Right. 01:30:13
Cheer Anton the. 01:30:14
The page in Turnbull is recommending to have up to three one hour virtual. 01:30:16
Meetings with. 01:30:21
HRC representatives. 01:30:23
And city staff, so I would recommend maybe forming A subcommittee 2. 01:30:26
OK. 01:30:33
Yeah, of two. 01:30:33
I think it has to be two. OK. 01:30:35
Right. Yeah. Sorry, you are correct. This is a 2 committee. 01:30:37
Umm. 01:30:42
A subcommittee, two person subcommittee. 01:30:43
So I would recommend that and then we could get started with the scope and meeting with Page and Turnbull. 01:30:45
All right. And so is recommending a subcommittee. 01:30:55
Actionable today. 01:31:00
Find the print. 01:31:03
I don't know if it's actionable today. 01:31:09
I. 01:31:13
Leave with the recommendation to review and approve the proposal. 01:31:14
You can. 01:31:19
Move forward with approval and. 01:31:22
Recommendation as part of that approval to have a subcommittee, OK, I'll I'll ensure that we did that correctly but I believe 01:31:26
alright so, so. 01:31:30
Would somebody make a motion to approve the page and Turnbull report for today and? 01:31:36
With. 01:31:41
The addition of forming a a subcommittee to. 01:31:43
Meet with them. 01:31:46
I have approved the page and Turnbull's proposal and to form a subcommittee. 01:31:50
To work with them. 01:31:57
OK. Can we have a second? I second. Thank you. Can we have a roll call vote? 01:31:58
Member Picket. 01:32:04
Yeah, I. 01:32:05
Member of Greening. 01:32:07
Member Grannis. 01:32:10
Aye. 01:32:12
Vice chair steers. 01:32:13
Chair Anton. 01:32:16
Fine. 01:32:18
Motion Passes 50. 01:32:19
One vacancy. 01:32:22
So actionable, can we choose who's going to be on this subcommittee or? 01:32:24
Chair Antonio, you. 01:32:30
I would recommend that you, as part of the motion include. 01:32:32
Who? We've already approved the motion, though. 01:32:36
We approved it. Can we just, can we just. 01:32:39
Amend the motion. 01:32:42
OK, a motion that we've already passed. 01:32:44
I get paid a lot of money for this job, you know? 01:32:49
Motion let. Let's. 01:32:56
Let's just have an additional motion. Well, that that'd be cleaner, I think would. 01:32:57
Who would like to be on the subcommittee? 01:33:02
Come on, somebody. All right, Jennifer. 01:33:05
Do you want to? 01:33:08
OK. Is there any concern about? 01:33:09
Umm. 01:33:12
What we're facing now recusals in certain parts of the name, I don't think. I don't work. This is to establish the neighborhood 01:33:13
character list. I don't think recusals would have anything to do with it. 01:33:18
Establish it in general. Not we're not talking about house by house, OK? Ohh yeah, we're just getting the rules set up. 01:33:25
OK. 01:33:31
You gotta change your mind. 01:33:34
OK, I I'll I'd like to work on it so. 01:33:35
So can we have a motion? 01:33:41
Jennifer, would you make a motion that the two of us be on this committee? 01:33:42
People make a motion that Jeannie Anton and Jennifer Pickett be on the subcommittee for the Page and Turnbull project. 01:33:47
I second thank you. 01:33:57
Member Beckett. 01:34:00
Aye. 01:34:03
Grannis. 01:34:05
Member Greening. 01:34:08
Chair Anton. 01:34:11
Aye. 01:34:12
Vice Chair steers Hi. 01:34:13
Motion passes. 01:34:16
5A's. 01:34:18
0 nays 1. 01:34:19
Vacancy. 01:34:22
All right, moving on the next item. 01:34:24
Would be Item C deletion of 718 Grove St. 01:34:26
However, we we won't have a quorum to hear that. So I I believe we need a motion to. 01:34:32
Continue that item. 01:34:39
Could somebody please do wait a minute, let's do this together. 01:34:40
The 718 Grove St. 01:34:44
184 Pacific and 172 Pacific will need to be. 01:34:47
Continue, continue to that. 01:34:54
To a time uncertain. 01:34:56
Could we have a motion to that effect? 01:34:59
Are those the only ones that? 01:35:03
There's, there's five and and we're taking off 3, yes. 01:35:06
Could I have a motion please? 01:35:09
Let us Would you make a motion? 01:35:12
That would be 718 Grove. 01:35:21
184 Pacific and 172 Pacific that they be continued to the next meeting. May I have a second please? 01:35:24
I second. 01:35:31
May we have the roll call vote? 01:35:32
Member Greening. 01:35:34
Member Beckett. 01:35:37
Member Grannis. 01:35:40
Aye. 01:35:41
Vice Chair Steers, Aye. 01:35:43
Chair Anton. 01:35:45
Aye. 01:35:47
Motion passes 501 vacancy. 01:35:48
OK. So we are thank you so much for being patient. We are now going to discuss the deletion of 128 Caledonia. 01:35:53
And do we have a staff report? 01:36:03
Excuse me? 01:36:05
Yeah. Ohh yeah. 01:36:07
Have a recusal. 01:36:08
Thank you for being here. 01:36:09
128, yes. 01:36:17
So many pages here. 01:36:22
First off, I want to thank the The Heritage Society for providing supplemental photos and documents for the the packets. 01:36:25
Good afternoon, Chair Anton and members of the HRC. 01:36:37
The item before you is the removal of 128 Caledonia St. from the HRI. 01:36:40
The city. 01:36:47
Records indicate that the building was constructed. 01:36:49
In 1892. 01:36:52
For Page and Turnbull. 01:36:54
According to the 2018 DPR form. 01:36:57
Prepared by Page and Turnbull. 01:37:01
Extensive additions and alterations have occurred since the property was added to the HRI and documented. 01:37:03
In the 1990. 01:37:10
1977 DPR form and have resulted in a loss of historic integrity. 01:37:11
Uh. 01:37:18
Resulting in a lack of historic integrity. 01:37:20
Staff recommendation is to remove the property from the HRI. 01:37:24
This concludes my staff report and I'm available to answer any questions you may have. 01:37:28
1st I'll go to public comment, anybody present they'd like to speak to this address. 01:37:35
Please come up. 01:37:40
Good afternoon. My name is John, Larry Soars. 01:37:47
And it's regarding course 128 Caledonia. 01:37:51
When I returned home on August, Friday, August 11th. 01:37:56
I noticed a sign regarding this meeting and about the the historical of the home which came as news to me. 01:38:01
The following week beginning of the week, I came here with questions and comments. 01:38:07
Mr. McCollum will find kind enough to meet with me and thank you. I come off the street and he gave me a lot of time. 01:38:10
And I really appreciate it. He suggested I come here and we basically say what I said then. 01:38:16
My late wife and I purchased the property the home in February of 1993, as the Weekender would eventually become the primary 01:38:22
residence. 01:38:27
In 2007, we decided we wanted to enlarge it. It was 990 square feet more living space. 01:38:32
When we met with the planning department, they showed us the file. 01:38:39
It was an empty lot. 01:38:43
And the three car garages at that time? 01:38:44
And they suggested we have more flexibility if we applied to make it historical. My wife and I decided we didn't want to do that. 01:38:48
We we got permits, we did everything the correct way with inspectors. 01:38:56
And just did it this additional living space with the current home and the garages. 01:39:00
And MM. 01:39:05
Question I guess is. 01:39:07
How did it become historical? I'm not finding that deleted. I want it deleted. I just don't know how it got there because you 01:39:09
mentioned. No, seriously, you mentioned the date, which I know you were kind enough to show me pictures of a previous house. 01:39:15
I saw the empty lot before the house again. 01:39:21
Excuse me. Back in 2007 I saw the pictures of the empty lot and the three garages that are out there. Now one of them is being 01:39:25
moved. 01:39:28
But it was. It was empty. And then now this approximately 1986 I believe my home was was when it was built. 01:39:32
So it threw me off guard. Over the years and the 30 years I've had the place, I've never received any information about being 01:39:40
historical until I saw that sign. 01:39:44
And that's why I came in. 01:39:49
So. 01:39:51
I I just don't understand what why it's there. So thank you for your time. Alright, thank you. 01:39:52
To have other public comment. 01:39:58
I see no other hands raised. 01:40:02
All right. Then I'll close public comment. 01:40:05
Again, we're on 128 Caledonia distribute sure here. 01:40:07
To me, this is kind of the poster child for not being on the HR anymore. It's been altered quite a bit and it it doesn't retain 01:40:12
any of its. 01:40:16
Characteristics from it The days of your whenever you know it was a tenth cottage, apparently. 01:40:22
So yeah, 1892 it says so. 01:40:28
I you know, I I find this one probably one of the easiest ones we've had. 01:40:32
Any other discussion? 01:40:38
No, I completely agree. 01:40:40
So kind of a semi modern. 01:40:43
It is. 01:40:45
Yes, doesn't contribute to the. 01:40:47
Character of the city. 01:40:51
It it's not what you got. 01:40:53
It's not the perfect example of a. 01:40:54
Particular. 01:40:57
Well, tent cottage there. 01:40:59
All right, so do we. 01:41:01
Any other discussion from anybody? Can we have a vote with them please? 01:41:03
What are we going to do with this House? 01:41:07
I'd love a motion. 01:41:10
I move that we delete the property at 128 Caledonia from the HR list. 01:41:12
Do we have a second? 01:41:18
Yes. 01:41:20
2nd from. 01:41:22
Mr. Steers and we need a roll call vote. 01:41:23
Number Grannis. 01:41:26
Aye. 01:41:28
Vice chair steers. 01:41:29
Aye. 01:41:30
Chair Anton. 01:41:32
Aye. 01:41:33
And remember Beckett? 01:41:35
Motion passes 4 to 0. 01:41:39
One absent, 1 recused. 01:41:42
All right. The next house we'll hear is 112 Caledonia. 01:41:46
And a staff report please. 01:41:51
The item before you is the removal of 112 Caledonia St. 01:41:57
From the Sri, the city records indicate the building was constructed. 01:42:02
In 1888. 01:42:07
Per Page and Turnbull. 01:42:09
According to the 2018 DPR form. 01:42:11
1888 Sandborn maps show a tent frame adjacent to A1 story dwelling. 01:42:16
Rear W portion of the extant building. 01:42:22
By 1892, the 10th frame was enclosed or replaced. 01:42:26
With the North Bay. 01:42:30
A North Bay was added. 01:42:32
And a S wing was added. 01:42:34
And an open porch was constructed. 01:42:36
At the primary east and South facades. 01:42:38
By 1897, a small rear porch was constructed, as well as two outbuildings, one of which was demolished by 1905. 01:42:42
By 1914, the South Wing was expanded. 01:42:51
Based on the Sanborn maps between 1926 and 1962, the. 01:42:54
Open porch. 01:42:59
At the primary E facade was enclosed and expanded. 01:43:01
A cumulative. 01:43:05
Changes have resulted in. 01:43:06
Loss of historic integrity. 01:43:08
Staff recommendation is to remove the property from the rate from the HRI. 01:43:10
This concludes my staff report. I'm available to answer any questions. 01:43:15
Thank you. May we go to public comment and we'll go to the audience. Public comment first. 01:43:20
Come up please to the We need to have all this recorded, so if you'll come up to the microphone. 01:43:27
Yes, you may. 01:43:35
I'm Nancy Schiffer. This is my husband, Goldman Smith. I have a question before I start. We submitted a written. 01:43:43
Comment. 01:43:50
Then I'm going to refer to the photos that are in there. I don't know if you ever got copies of them. 01:43:50
Written comment was given to us today, so I don't know if everybody had a chance to look at it. I have copies. 01:43:56
Well, I'd rather you just give them over there. It's it's very difficult for us to look at stuff and listen to you. Yeah, I 01:44:04
understand that. But I know when you did the House plans. 01:44:08
You were looking at house plans and I've got 2 pictures that. 01:44:13