No Bookmarks Exist.
Yeah, we're all here. 00:01:46
So it is 6:00 PM. 00:01:49
I am Stephen Lilly and I will call to order this August 10th. 00:01:51
2023 Regular meeting of the Pacific Rd. Planning Commission. 00:01:56
Mr. Campbell, would you please call the roll? 00:02:00
Generally. 00:02:04
Here. 00:02:05
Vice Chair Murphy. 00:02:07
Commissioner Frederickson. 00:02:11
He has an excused absence. 00:02:14
Sure Sawyer. Ohh. Sorry, Commissioner Sawyer. 00:02:17
President, Commissioner Davison. 00:02:19
President, Commissioner Kubica. 00:02:21
Here. 00:02:23
Commissioner, Commissioner Dzinski. 00:02:24
Present we have 6 present one absent we have a quorum. 00:02:27
Good. So as I said, Commissioner Frederickson has an excuse absence and as Mr. Campbell said, we have a quorum. 00:02:31
Let me just begin briefly by stating this meeting is conducted under revised rules mandated and Assembly Bill 2449. 00:02:40
Besides our median and chambers here this evening, we have a virtual or zoom participation and therefore a hybrid format. 00:02:48
The webinar ID and toll free numbers for those not in attendance on Zoom are on the agenda phase sheet. 00:02:55
When the host opens the agenda for public comment, those wishing to speak via Zoom should press Star 9 to raise your hand. 00:03:03
And star 6 to mute when recognized. 00:03:09
Before we continue further, let me remind you, including myself. 00:03:14
That we need to speak directly into the microphone so there are equipment can properly record us. 00:03:18
So and that also means we need to make sure the. 00:03:26
Each other's microphone is on. 00:03:29
So, so now we come to our agenda. Does anybody have any changes to the agenda? 00:03:31
Ohh hearing none. May I have a motion then to approve the agenda? 00:03:41
I move to approve the agenda. 00:03:48
I'll second. All right. Commissioner Nuzenski moved to approve the agenda and seconded by. 00:03:50
Vice Chair Murphy. 00:03:56
So is there any discussion about the agenda? 00:03:59
Hearing none, then Mr. Campbell, would you please call the roll and? 00:04:05
All those in favor should say aye, and those opposed should say nay. 00:04:09
Commissioner Nijinsky. 00:04:16
Aye. 00:04:18
Commissioner, Vice Chair Murphy. 00:04:19
Commissioner Kubica. 00:04:22
Aye. 00:04:23
Commissioner Davison. 00:04:25
Aye. 00:04:26
Commissioner Sawyer. 00:04:28
Aye. 00:04:29
Chair Lily Aye. 00:04:30
Agenda is approved. 00:04:33
Alright, so the agenda is approved by the motion to approve. The agenda is approved by Six Eyes No Nos. And so we move now to item 00:04:36
number 3. 00:04:39
Commission and staff announcements. 00:04:44
Does any member of the Commission have any announcements? 00:04:46
Commissioner Sawyer. 00:04:51
Are you ready with my letter? 00:05:00
Mr. Campbell. 00:05:03
You want me to? I have other things to talk about while you're doing that. You want me to do that? 00:05:19
OK. I also wanted to give an oral report on the. 00:05:23
Story Poll subcommittee because there is no place on it on our agenda. The last report was on July 13th. 00:05:29
We have met twice since then, on July 20th and August 3rd. 00:05:38
Our next meeting is August 16th. 00:05:43
We're making progress. That's all I got to say. Lots of it. 00:05:46
We finished with all the comparisons with other municipalities. 00:05:50
We are now working to complete our story pull content outline. We're close to starting to write. 00:05:54
We have completed work on a certification letter we're working to complete. 00:06:02
Waivers, exceptions, and alternative policies. 00:06:07
Signage and other specifics regarding policy. 00:06:11
And that's the end of the report on the. 00:06:15
Story poll committee, unless my compatriots wish to add anything. 00:06:18
No. OK. Thank you. 00:06:24
Umm. 00:06:27
And then I. 00:06:28
Have written a. 00:06:31
3rd letter in regards to the Great Divide, tide, pool, safety and environmental concerns. 00:06:33
My first letter was in June on the 6th. My second letter was July 12th. 00:06:40
And my third letter was today. 00:06:46
Which demonstrates continuing safety and environmental issues which include the following. 00:06:50
There's rebar protruding out of the wood edging beside the path, the drop off area near the coastal path above the great tide 00:06:56
pool. 00:07:00
And that's evident in photograph one, which we'll see in just a minute. 00:07:05
Mayors photograph one, so there's a rebar. 00:07:10
And what's worrisome to me is I was there yesterday when I took this picture. 00:07:13
And there were two ladies going down this path, and one lady did it without any issue. The third, the second lady actually 00:07:20
basically had to sit down so she could go over this. 00:07:26
And when I approached them, the second lady explained that she had a number of orthopedic. 00:07:32
Concerns and injuries. And she had to be extraordinarily careful when she was going down a path like this, so. 00:07:41
It just worries me that we have this. This is part of our coastal path. I just think it needs to be repaired. 00:07:48
This was sort of repaired in July with a DG and you can see that the DG did not stay in place and we have further erosion. 00:07:56
Thirdly, there's no signage or warning of the drop off on the coastal path and then there are. 00:08:06
No protections. 00:08:13
Yeah, number #2. 00:08:17
For the fragile dunes or the tide strums Lupin habitat on the Oceanside of the coastal. 00:08:20
Path and what you see here is. 00:08:27
The. 00:08:31
Wire actually down on the ground. 00:08:33
It doesn't do any good to keep people out of there, so if I could see the next. 00:08:36
Slide. Yeah. And that is a sign that says no entry. And you can see there's evidence of a lot of footprints right behind that no 00:08:41
entry. 00:08:46
And that area is? 00:08:51
Of. 00:08:54
Significance to. 00:08:56
The. 00:08:58
Are. 00:08:59
You know, great tide pool because it contains a lot of the tide streams. Lupin. 00:09:00
Tide streams. Lupin grow in very few areas. 00:09:05
In the world. 00:09:09
We happen to have in our great tide pool area the largest colony of them. 00:09:11
So they're considered rare and endangered and it just. 00:09:17
I mean, it breaks my heart every time I go by and I see all these footsteps. 00:09:21
And then the last. 00:09:25
Concern that I have is there's a considerable foot traffic as you can see through these fragile dune areas. 00:09:28
This area was. 00:09:37
Developed as part of a coastal development permit that allowed a lot of work to happen in the Asilomar Dunes and Sylmar State 00:09:40
Beach Conference Center grounds. And this. 00:09:44
Umm. 00:09:49
Area in the great tide pools was part of the mitigation that was granted during that CDP. 00:09:50
And there there was a plan that was submitted to the city in May of 2013 and. 00:09:58
At a minimum, the plan was to demonstrate that they would protect the restoration area and avoid volunteer trails across the site. 00:10:05
And quite frankly, that's not happening and this is part of our coastal development permit. 00:10:14
And then the other issue that I have. 00:10:19
Strong feelings about his restoration shall be premised on enhancing dune habitat so that self functioning. 00:10:22
High quality dune habitat in perpetuity. 00:10:29
I don't see that happening if we don't protect this. 00:10:32
Umm. 00:10:35
It. 00:10:36
Appears that the CDP requirements are not outlined above. 00:10:37
Aren't followed by the city, as evidenced by the lack of continuous protection for fragile dunes and biologic areas. 00:10:41
And there also appears to be a rather blatant disregard for pedestrian safety on the Great Tide Pool coastal path. 00:10:48
Simple mitigations such as post and cable fencing, signage and a potential breakaway stair structure could be utilized. 00:10:57
And long term mitigation should include consideration of rerouting these coastal paths. 00:11:05
And viewing platforms due to coastal storm hazards. Thank you. 00:11:11
Mr. Chair, this is City Attorney Brian Perry. My recommendation would be that if the Commission wants to address any of the 00:11:16
concerns that were just expressed, is that you put this on a future council agenda. 00:11:23
So they can't really be any discussion about it tonight. 00:11:32
But if you wanted to put it on a future agenda, you could do that. 00:11:35
We plan to do that for this agenda, however we. 00:11:39
Couldn't do that because of the lack of proper noticing, but thank you. We do plan to do that. I appreciate that. 00:11:44
And then the one. 00:11:51
Last question that I had is in regards to the board standing committees, joint working group. I have no idea what that is and I'm. 00:11:54
Hoping Miss Wyatt will be able to elucidate what that is. Thank you. Those are the end of my comments. 00:12:04
Thank you. 00:12:11
Are there any other comments? 00:12:13
From Commissioners. 00:12:15
If not, I just have a couple. 00:12:17
First, on July 13th or last meeting, we approved coastal development permit. 00:12:20
22-0318 multiple locations in the coastal zone and you should know that that matter has been appealed to the. 00:12:26
City Council. 00:12:33
Other actions we took on July 13th stand. 00:12:35
At least at the local level of stand, they stand. 00:12:41
Including architectural and coastal development permit. 00:12:44
CDP for 100 Asilomar. 00:12:48
And architectural and use permit for 1060 Jewel Ave. 00:12:50
And denial of coastal development permit for pints on the peninsula. 00:12:54
And so I I would just repeat that a comment made by Commissioner Sawyer that next month's agenda could possibly have. 00:13:01
A recommendation of the City Council on the disposition of the matter she discussed about the Great Tide Pool. 00:13:12
Are there any staff announcements Director Wyatt or Mr. Campbell? 00:13:18
I'd be happy to address Commissioner Sawyers question about the the Joint Commission's working group. 00:13:24
It's. Please, please, please. 00:13:32
That is, Chief Madalone has put together had the idea to have one volunteer for each board and Commission. 00:13:36
To get together at their time. 00:13:44
And. 00:13:48
We have. 00:13:49
We we have given it or presented it to a number of boards so far. One of the reasons we didn't this time around is there are a lot 00:13:51
of questions that have been coming up from boards. 00:13:56
And commissions as we go through it. 00:14:02
And So what we're going to do is we're going to try to have the chief come and and. 00:14:04
Let you know what. 00:14:09
Her plan was for this Joint Commission's working group. It's meant to be. 00:14:10
Staff free. It will be only one volunteer per per group. It's not a decision making board, but it's meant for communication 00:14:17
purposes only. 00:14:21
OK. That's good. Thank you. Thank you. 00:14:28
Tonight. 00:14:32
And I think I heard his voice previously. We have Brian Perik, our legal counsel. 00:14:33
I think he's here. Do you have any announcements? 00:14:38
I'm just getting my mute button off there now. I have no announcements on this evening. Thank you, Mr. Chair. 00:14:45
All right, we come now to. 00:14:53
Council liaison announcements. Council member Coletti, do you have any announcements? Thank you, Chair, and greetings to all on 00:14:56
the Planning Commission. 00:15:00
I do have a couple of items I'd like to report regarding our August 2nd Council meeting. 00:15:05
We did a first read of our Accessory Dwelling Unit Ordinance which came before Planning Commission previously. 00:15:11
And we also another item we also selected Rincon. 00:15:19
As the contractor for our focus general plan update. 00:15:25
They will be the consultant, the lead consultant, I should say. 00:15:30
And we chose to kind of do it Ala carte, so. 00:15:34
We there were two phases that were presented. 00:15:38
As options to counsel, we chose to pursue phase one initially. 00:15:42
And there are four principal components of phase one. 00:15:46
Zoning, Ordinance and Map amendments. 00:15:51
Is 1 objective design and development standards. Site development is a second. 00:15:54
And general plan land use element consistency updates. 00:16:01
And then finally a program EIR which would be amended later. 00:16:06
Based on some of the work that would happen in phase two. 00:16:10
The contract will run through the end of fiscal year 2425. 00:16:14
As you know, we are expecting soon. It was also reported at the same Council meeting by Rincon that they had submitted their 00:16:19
administrative draft. 00:16:23
Of the housing element to staff. 00:16:28
So we're expecting to see that soon. 00:16:30
And hopefully we can. 00:16:32
We can get started on on getting that adopted and certified and then getting going with our general plan updates. 00:16:35
That will be necessary to get. 00:16:43
The housing element implemented. 00:16:45
And finally, last point, we appointed City Council, appointed Tory Hanna as our city manager pro temporary. 00:16:48
With hiring authority, effective immediately. 00:16:57
And so we have a new city manager acting as a manager pro temporary. 00:17:00
And other than that? 00:17:06
That's about it. 00:17:08
Have a good meeting. 00:17:09
Alright, well, thank you. 00:17:10
We now come to item 5 on the agenda, general public comment. 00:17:13
General public comment must deal with matters subject to the jurisdiction of the City. 00:17:18
And the Planning Commission, but are not on the agenda this evening. 00:17:22
This is also an appropriate time to comment on items in the consent agenda. 00:17:26
But only if the speaker does not wish to have the item pulled for consideration by this Commission. 00:17:30
Comments from the public will be limited to 3 minutes per speaker and will not receive Commission action. 00:17:37
Comments regarding an item on the agenda will be heard later, at the time of the Commission's consideration of that item. 00:17:43
Before we continue, I believe there are several letters and emails in our agenda packet. 00:17:50
They are mainly included in the. 00:17:55
A relative subject. 00:17:59
In the packet. 00:18:01
Our administrative technician, Debbie Gonzales, also keeps a copy of all communications. 00:18:03
Of our Commission in a binder in our office, So that's always available. 00:18:09
So would anyone like to address the Commission on matters not on the agenda? 00:18:14
Welcome. 00:18:24
My name is Vince Tuminello. 00:18:31
And I'm here tonight to make a general. 00:18:34
Oral communication. 00:18:37
About some activity that's taking place in a non official capacity. 00:18:39
By a group of resident neighbors. 00:18:44
Not only here in Pacific Grove, but around the state. 00:18:48
And we've had some meetings casually in a non official capacity with residents of Carmel who are much more organized. 00:18:52
Then the residents of Pacific Grove and many times remain quiet and and don't choose to participate in Planning Commission, City 00:19:02
Council or other meetings and my topic tonight is to alert you. 00:19:09
That there is an organization which is doing wonderful work. 00:19:16
Called Our Neighborhood Voices and they have a website Our Neighborhood Voices. 00:19:20
Dot com spelled just like it is one word our neighborhoodvoices.com And what's the issue I wish to talk about? 00:19:26
This group among local residents and residents from other communities. 00:19:34
Has the objective to do our best to have a completed initiative. 00:19:39
Which will block. 00:19:46
The mandate by the state which is imposing on Pacific Grove to override many of our local ordinances, zoning, water, sewage and 00:19:48
other. 00:19:53
Operations that take place in the city. 00:19:59
And to force us as a city. 00:20:02
And to you, we'll be participating in the procedures of developing this policy. 00:20:04
If you're allowed by the state and to the extent that you're allowed by the state, and we find this to be abhorrent. 00:20:10
Many of our local residents are not fully informed as to what it's all about. 00:20:16
So I want to refer you as individuals, you as commissioners and everyone in the city. 00:20:20
That they need to take a look on the Internet at our neighborhoodvoices.com who's putting together an initiative? 00:20:27
To block and void the state mandate. 00:20:35
Which? 00:20:40
Is taking control of the development of the city away from city. 00:20:41
And putting it in the hands of the state. 00:20:46
Overriding many of the things we've become accustomed to, like planning that would involve consideration of our character, our 00:20:49
resources, and our ability to provide for any further development. Now you may have heard that as a casual way. 00:20:58
That the state is mandating that the city Pacific Growth provide 1200. 00:21:07
New units and this is under the illusion that these are going to be low and affordable income units. 00:21:13
And that's really not the import that's taking place here, the numbers that came up with this 1100. 00:21:20
A new unit concept was originally developed by a subcommittee of Ambac. 00:21:28
The Association of Monterey Bay. 00:21:34
A MB A/C Association of Monterey Bay Governments and in at that time. This is several decades ago. They're subcommittee. 00:21:37
Worked to develop what they thought was going to be necessary in the future and they came up with this number of 1100. It was not 00:21:46
a unanimous vote. Many of the. 00:21:51
Participants in that committee found a lot of disdain for that recommendation. So if you, as a local member of the community or as 00:21:56
a body as a commissioner, find that it's very unreasonable for the state to come down and force us to build 1100 new units without 00:22:05
any consideration for the quality of life, the parking, the sewage, the water. 00:22:13
The architectural design and so forth. I encourage all of you to visit the website Our Neighbourhood Voices. 00:22:22
And when that. 00:22:29
Referendum is presented to you that you would support it as a body, as an individual resident. 00:22:31
And that we could gather signatures to put this on the ballot. 00:22:37
So that the residents can stop this ridiculous mandate to overbuild. 00:22:40
Without local control in the city of Pacific Grove. Thank you so much. Thank you. 00:22:46
Is there anyone else? 00:22:52
Welcome. 00:22:56
Good evening, planning commissioners. My name is Adam Pinterest. I'm the government and community affairs director for the 00:23:03
Monterey County Association of Realtors, and I'm addressing item agenda, item 6A on the consent agenda. I do not want it pulled. 00:23:09
I just want to appreciate staff for putting together a very thorough report and gathering information on this subject. I look 00:23:16
forward to learning more. In other jurisdictions, community land trusts have proven an effective and creative way. 00:23:22
For creating more affordable housing, which has been identified as a clear need and challenge for this community. 00:23:28
And so I look forward to learning more and I hope the Commission proceeds with this in a thoughtful manner with an emphasis on 00:23:33
housing. Thank you. 00:23:36
Thank you. 00:23:41
Is there anybody virtually Mr. Campbell, who would like to speak? 00:23:43
Ohh. I'm sorry. Please come ahead. 00:23:48
Didn't see you. 00:23:51
Welcome. 00:23:56
My name is Judy Cole, I'm a resident of Pacific Grove and I want to personally thank Commissioner Sawyer and I believe it's 00:24:00
Navinsky and. 00:24:06
Ohh, I'm sorry. Thank you. 00:24:12
Magic button some here I don't know. 00:24:14
It's on. You just talk into it. Have to talk me into it. We can hear you, but you need this. If I do this right, so the the long 00:24:17
time. OK, backing up just a little bit. First of all, my name is Judy Cole. I am a resident of Pacific Girl and I'd like to 00:24:23
personally thank. 00:24:28
The Story poll committee for moving forward in such an expedient manner, I didn't realize you would be on the agenda because it 00:24:35
was an agenda. 00:24:40
But I appreciate the update and one of the reasons I appreciate the update is that the story polls can have a significant effect. 00:24:46
On properties here in PG. 00:24:55
And currently there's a property that has. 00:24:57
A lot of story pulls up that then they blow down in the wind. 00:25:01
So I've been looking at it closely and realize that so many people in the community may not have seen the story polls that were 00:25:07
placed. 00:25:12
And what criteria was being used to place the story polls? 00:25:18
But to me, from what Commissioner Sawyer said, today they're doing an extensive researching of this project and looking into 00:25:23
certification, for example, using someone. 00:25:28
I would assume would be a civil engineer type company to establish that the height of the poles etcetera. So I think you're on the 00:25:34
right track. 00:25:39
And I want to thank you very much. 00:25:44
And I think there's it's, is it Mr. Commissioner Cooper? Mm-hmm. Yes, Thank you. 00:25:47
That's it. 00:25:53
Thank you. Thank you. 00:25:54
Thanks. 00:25:56
Is there anyone else in the audience who would like to speak? 00:26:00
If not, is there anybody on the Zoom or whatever we call it, Mr. 00:26:04
Campbell, We have Mike Gibbs. 00:26:10
I believe he did raise his hand. 00:26:13
Welcome. 00:26:15
Good evening, Planning Commission Chairman Lily and everybody else else. Appreciate your service. 00:26:19
This is Mike Gibbs. I'm a member of the Pacific Grove Economic Development. 00:26:26
Commission. I'm here talking on my own behalf. 00:26:30
And I would like to 2nd Mr. Tuminello's remarks about Neighborhood Voices. If you haven't seen it, go to it. 00:26:33
And they're they're building a referendum to put on the state ballot in the next election. It's critical that you vote to overturn 00:26:40
the state mandate. 00:26:44
However, I'm here to talk about something else. The Economic Development Commission for Pacific Grove is beginning a. 00:26:49
Long and probably arduous journey to help think about what the strategic, economic, strategic goals are for the city. 00:26:55
And I would encourage everybody to attend Economic Development Commission meetings. The next one is September the 7th. 00:27:04
That's a Thursday 1st Thursday at 4:00 PM and basically the, you know, the broadview is to make Pacific Grove one of the most 00:27:11
wonderful and unique cities in the world. Even better. 00:27:17
A place to live, workshop and visit. 00:27:23
And part of the research for this and this, I think the Planning Commission will be interested in this. 00:27:26
There have been a number of studies about cities in the category of Pacific Grove. 00:27:31
You know great little places to live and work and visit. 00:27:36
And it turns out there's a list of seven things that make it a really. 00:27:39
A a great thing and I think we're going to try to. 00:27:43
Focus on these as the in in our planning process. 00:27:46
The first is a greater awareness of local entrepreneurship. 00:27:50
And how do we support it as a city? 00:27:54
#2 Working with local community colleges like Hartnell, MPC and. 00:27:56
And others to encourage entrepreneurship. 00:28:02
As a career path. 00:28:05
#3 Success Item number 3 for these great vibrant cities train young people and skills that major employers. 00:28:07
And use and demand. 00:28:14
Unique item number four is focus on unique innovative industries and we have a couple here in a mini here in Pacific Grove that we 00:28:17
need to continue and grow. 00:28:22
Success factor #5 is really pay attention to refine the central value proposition. There'll be a lot of discussion. 00:28:27
About what that value proposition is, specifically what makes it such a great place, there's a variety of issues. 00:28:35
But I think among the things that the features that we have is the 4 miles of shoreline between us, a celimar and the aquarium. 00:28:41
We have the lighthouse, which is one of the oldest functioning in in the United States. We have a wonderful museum. 00:28:48
We have the only Carnegie library left in Monterey County. Don't know if you knew that. 00:28:55
And who doesn't play golf, or at least like to go out and walk on the golf course? What a great place. 00:29:00
Item number six is just recognizing importance of arts and museums. 00:29:05
In Pacific Grove and item number seven for success. 00:29:09
Is to constantly evaluate this portfolio of assets. 00:29:12
These features that people love about Pacific Grove and keep them up on the front and advertise and market the heck out of those 00:29:16
things when we get a chance. So Planning Commission, you have a lot of work ahead of you. I appreciate your time and thank you for 00:29:21
all being here. 00:29:26
Thank you. 00:29:32
Indian Lawrence and Dahmer welcome. 00:29:37
Thank you. 00:29:42
I would have expected a planner, Campbell. 00:29:44
To have corrected his minutes and issued an errata sheet. 00:29:49
Which they were very much an omission, and I wrote a letter to the Planning Commission and to him. 00:29:54
And that didn't happen. 00:30:01
And. 00:30:03
We have. 00:30:05
Small enough action minutes. 00:30:06
That it, they need to be accurate. 00:30:11
Transparent. 00:30:14
And in as much detail as action minutes. 00:30:16
Can give. 00:30:20
Which includes public comment. 00:30:21
Unfortunately, I'm kind of noticing that. 00:30:25
That his omissions on the minutes have happened on. 00:30:27
Items that the Planning Commission did not agree with the staff recommendation. 00:30:32
And on items that unfortunately I'm going to take this personally that I have commented. 00:30:38
Adversely on. 00:30:44
And I will want to pull. 00:30:46
The July 13th. 00:30:50
Minutes. 00:30:52
As they have not been corrected on the consent agenda. 00:30:53
And I just want to. 00:30:57
Reiterate. 00:31:00
That we need. 00:31:01
Detailed transparency and accuracy. 00:31:03
And. 00:31:08
That has to happen and we don't know what's going to turn up of Ohh. Well, we corrected them. Well, what does? We corrected them. 00:31:09
Mean. 00:31:17
So I would like to know and I'd like to encourage you. 00:31:18
To follow up on this. 00:31:23
And thank you. 00:31:25
Commissioner Sawyer for the lovely. 00:31:27
Story Polls Subcommittee. 00:31:30
Update which was impromptu and and much appreciated because this is something that. 00:31:35
Is just it's it's a wonderful way to move forward. 00:31:41
In all those ways, thank you very much. 00:31:46
Thank you. 00:31:50
We have Tony Chiani. 00:31:53
Welcome. 00:31:55
Good evening, Commissioners staff. 00:31:59
Agenda item 5A. 00:32:02
About public comment as beg. 00:32:05
Despite what was said earlier. 00:32:08
The recommended action. 00:32:10
Is to receive correspondence. 00:32:12
But it is unclear what correspondence, if any. 00:32:15
The commissioners. 00:32:18
It's not published. 00:32:21
Not only should the Commissioners know. 00:32:22
For sure. 00:32:25
What public comments were sent? 00:32:26
So should the general public. 00:32:29
On a separate item. 00:32:32
The Environmental Enhancement Fund has been part of the city's annual budget. 00:32:34
For many years. 00:32:39
The funding sources appear to. 00:32:40
Reflect grants. 00:32:42
Or private contributions. 00:32:44
Or environmental mitigation funds. 00:32:46
I believe there should be a clear. 00:32:50
And simple accounting. 00:32:52
Of the funds income. 00:32:54
And expenses? 00:32:56
As money in, money out. 00:32:58
Where it comes from? 00:33:01
And where it's spent. 00:33:04
I also believe the Planning Commission. 00:33:06
Should be responsible for that fund. 00:33:09
Including a Citizens Advisory committee. 00:33:12
And I recommend. 00:33:15
That it should be codified. 00:33:17
With a mission based. 00:33:19
On the General plan. 00:33:21
And local coastal programs, conservation policies and goals. 00:33:23
Not as a public. 00:33:29
Public works Capital funding source. 00:33:33
#3 00:33:37
I'm concerned about. 00:33:39
The Environmental Quality of Crespi Pond. 00:33:41
And the surrounding wetlands. 00:33:44
I believe the Planning Commission. 00:33:46
Should take the leadership. 00:33:48
For the protection and restoration. 00:33:49
Of the Crispy Pond wetland. 00:33:52
Frankly. 00:33:55
I believe the Public Works Department. 00:33:56
Has a difficult role when it comes to managing. 00:33:58
The city's natural resources. 00:34:01
Or belt resources. 00:34:03
Like the state of California. 00:34:05
Parks and Recreation Department. 00:34:08
PG. 00:34:10
Should consider. 00:34:11
Some a similar mission. 00:34:13
The California mission is. 00:34:15
To provide. 00:34:18
For. 00:34:19
This is a quote to provide for the help. 00:34:20
Inspiration. 00:34:22
Education. 00:34:24
Of the people of California. 00:34:25
By helping preserve the states. 00:34:27
Extraordinary biological diversity. 00:34:30
Protecting its most valued natural and cultural resources and creating opportunities. 00:34:33
For high quality outdoor recommendation. 00:34:39
A Solamar State Park is a good example for that. 00:34:42
Nevertheless. 00:34:46
Crispy pond requires A conservation plan. 00:34:48
To improve its ecology. 00:34:51
And overall health? 00:34:53
Please do that. Thank you. 00:34:55
Thank you. 00:34:58
David O'Neill, welcome. 00:35:03
I'm speaking to you tonight is a local full-time Peninsula resident. I also serve on the board of the. 00:35:09
Carmel Residents Association and volunteer for Meals on Wheels and with the Criminal Police Department. 00:35:15
I'd like to affirm the previous comment regarding our neighbourhood voices. 00:35:21
I belong to a strong group in Carmel by the Sea who support our neighbourhood voices as well. 00:35:25
Today I noticed that the World Atlas named Pacific Grove and Carmela's two of the seven most beautiful towns in California. 00:35:31
Unfortunately, some developers have been working hard to disguise their greens. 00:35:40
Behind the roof of affordable housing. 00:35:44
And taking away local rights in the process. 00:35:47
The state constitution gives municipalities the right to govern their own development. 00:35:50
But now we can't stop developers from building whatever they want. 00:35:55
Wherever they want. 00:35:59
Without even contributing to new transit. 00:36:00
Parkings Boulder Rd. 00:36:03
What will our communities look like if developers are allowed to do as they please? 00:36:06
If the state is allowed to control this. 00:36:11
What else will they try to control? 00:36:13
All of this is justified because our population is supposedly going to explode. 00:36:16
But the California State auditor? 00:36:22
Found that the outrageous population projections were based on false data. 00:36:24
Now, affordable housing is important. 00:36:30
But we can't turn our local planning over to private profiteers. 00:36:32
We are required to fulfill our plan for the housing element to avoid state penalties without developers from enacting the builders 00:36:37
remedy to build without any restrictions. 00:36:42
But I ask you to alter protect your community by joining our Neighborhood Voices. 00:36:47
It's a coalition of thousands of California neighborhood leaders. 00:36:52
Creating an initiative to be put on the 24 ballot. 00:36:55
The purported by activists. 00:36:59
Person. 00:37:01
Content politicians and nonprofits. 00:37:01
All trying to put local power back in your hands. 00:37:04
In the hand of local citizens. 00:37:09
Who love their communities and want the best for them. 00:37:11
Thank you all for your service. 00:37:14
Thank you. 00:37:17
We have Marsha. OK, welcome Marsha. 00:37:21
Thank you, Mr. Chair. 00:37:26
Apologize. 00:37:30
Just lost that Marsha. 00:37:32
Jumping around, there we go. 00:37:36
Are you there? Yes. 00:37:39
Thank you, Mr. Chair and Commissioners. 00:37:41
I want to echo the comments, the eloquent comments made by Mr. Tim Anello. 00:37:46
Mr. O'Neill. 00:37:54
And Mr. Gibbs, regarding our neighbourhood. 00:37:55
Voices, I think it's it's very important, particularly in PG, a charter city. 00:38:00
To. 00:38:07
To fight for. 00:38:10
Local land use. 00:38:12
Central planning never works. 00:38:16
The Soviet Union is a perfect example of the failures of. 00:38:19
Of central planning. 00:38:25
I hope. 00:38:28
People who are zooming this meeting and yourselves. 00:38:30
Will look into. 00:38:34
The website. 00:38:36
And. 00:38:38
And in terms of. 00:38:39
Affordable housing. 00:38:42
As others have noted, it seems like it's motherhood and apple pie. 00:38:45
Kind of front. 00:38:52
For. 00:38:55
You know developers. 00:38:57
And trade unions and their Initially it was to be. 00:38:59
Implemented because of. 00:39:07
Growing populations and massive new jobs? Well, that's turned out to be false. 00:39:10
And and though. 00:39:16
Affordable housing may be needed. 00:39:18
On a on a More. 00:39:21
Reduced level. 00:39:23
We have to keep in mind that any time we take grants from the state. 00:39:26
It means we have to play by the states rules. 00:39:31
And so local. 00:39:34
People may not be eligible. May not act, They'll be eligible. 00:39:36
But. 00:39:41
Typically what will happen is that. 00:39:42
Anyone can apply for affordable housing who resides in California, and then there'll be a lottery. 00:39:45
And. 00:39:53
So I think people are misled. 00:39:55
By, you know, the possibility of actually being able to get into the affordable housing and PG just because you're a longtime 00:39:58
resident. 00:40:04
So I think it's really important to return. 00:40:10
Local. 00:40:13
Uh, power to our local representatives and boards. 00:40:14
And commissions like yourselves. 00:40:19
Thank you very much. 00:40:22
Thank you. 00:40:24
We have Lisa Chiani. 00:40:28
Welcome. 00:40:30
Thank you. 00:40:33
I just want to add to the expressions of appreciation for UH Commissioner Sawyers update on the story poll. 00:40:35
Ordinance because. 00:40:46
And that's it's been a long time coming and and it's so very needed. 00:40:48
So it's it's good to hear about the progress with that. 00:40:53
And umm. 00:40:57
And I also want to express appreciation for her. 00:40:59
Continued. 00:41:04
Attention to this situation at the Great Tide Pool restoration, trail, restoration area and trail. 00:41:09
It it's really shameful that the city has let this go on for seven months. 00:41:17
The. The. 00:41:24
Public public safety issue there. 00:41:26
Commissioner Sawyer pointed out not only. 00:41:29
Now now we're back to rebar sticking out but. 00:41:33
No warning that that. 00:41:38
That nice DG trail that starts out from the South side or yeah, South side of the great tide pool. 00:41:41
And goes goes along. 00:41:49
There's no warning that it abruptly is going to drop off. 00:41:51
Umm. 00:41:54
So. 00:41:55
It it's just hard to understand. 00:41:56
How this could go on for seven months. 00:41:59
And then furthermore the the failure to just put back up. 00:42:02
The rod and cable fencing to protect the dune restoration and the endangered species. 00:42:08
In our local coastal program. 00:42:18
Staff when that was being developed. 00:42:21
Really didn't want to protect anything more than endangered species and here we're not even protecting those. There will be 00:42:25
something done about this in the. 00:42:30
In the wildlife protection. 00:42:36
Umm. 00:42:38
Amendments that are being proposed. 00:42:40
For our LCP, but in any case. 00:42:42
I know it's you. You've said now it's going to be on your next agenda, but it shouldn't even be waiting for that. 00:42:48
Public works should be on that right now. 00:42:56
And I, if we don't have a provision for that in our LCP, we really need to do something about that fast. 00:42:59
Alright, thank you. 00:43:07
Thank you. 00:43:09
Even no further questions online. 00:43:12
OK. Thank you. And then I will. 00:43:14
Close that item or we'll move on to the consent agenda. 00:43:17
The consent agenda deals with routine and non controversial matters. 00:43:21
May include actions on resolutions, ordinances, and other public hearings for which testimony is not anticipated. 00:43:25
We have 4 items on the consent agenda this evening. 00:43:34
The first two items are for information only under item 6A. 00:43:37
Is web links about community land trusts that I? 00:43:43
Came across and. 00:43:47
Requested and. 00:43:49
Director Wyatt was gracious enough to put this. 00:43:51
Information on the agenda for information. 00:43:54
Perhaps we will consider that when we get into the housing development element. 00:43:58
Discussion in October. 00:44:04
Under Item 6B is an updated Planning Commission 2023 Work Plan, which. 00:44:06
We update every month. 00:44:11
The third item 7A is minutes from our June 8th, 2023 meeting. 00:44:13
And the 4th is minutes as well. Item 7B minutes from our July 13th, 2023 meeting. 00:44:18
Both the minutes require some action or something along those lines I suppose. 00:44:25
So would any. 00:44:32
Commissioner would like to remove any of these items from the consent agenda. Commissioner Sawyer. 00:44:33
I would like to pull and continue. 00:44:40
7A and 7B until. 00:44:45
September or October until they are corrected. 00:44:49
OK. Those two items are pulled. 00:44:54
Does it? 00:44:57
Is there any other polling from the Consent agenda? Vice Chair Murphy? 00:44:58
If I could ask Commissioner Sawyer. 00:45:03
I I think under our rules. 00:45:06
You know, minor, straightforward connections, corrections to the minutes. 00:45:10
And could. 00:45:15
Could be done now. 00:45:16
And I wonder if uh. 00:45:19
It makes sense to try to do that. 00:45:22
These are not minor corrections. 00:45:24
Right. 00:45:29
Any other? 00:45:31
Commissioner, wish to pull it. 00:45:33
One of the two remaining items. 00:45:35
Alright, would any staff member like to remove either of the remaining two items? 00:45:38
OK. 00:45:44
Would any member of the audience? 00:45:45
Either in person or remotely. 00:45:47
Like to remove either other. 00:45:50
Either of the two items remaining meaning on the consent agenda. 00:45:52
Hearing none, it looks like we have. 00:45:57
Lisa Chan, Sorry, hand up. 00:46:01
I didn't see the hand. Ohh, there's three hands. Ohh my. 00:46:03
Uh. 00:46:07
Lisa Chiani. 00:46:10
Yeah. 00:46:13
I'm muted. 00:46:13
Can you hear me? 00:46:15
Yes. 00:46:17
Ohh OK I wanted to pull 6A. 00:46:18
Six day, alright? 00:46:22
We have intolerance and Dumber. 00:46:26
I just wanted to make very certain that 7B is pulled. 00:46:31
Thank you very much. 00:46:36
Thank you. 00:46:38
That looks to be it. 00:46:43
All right. So the only item remaining on the consent agenda is the Planning Commission 2023 Work plan. 00:46:45
So may I have a motion to approve the one item on the consent agenda? 00:46:53
I move that we. 00:46:59
Approve item. 00:47:01
6B The only item remaining on the consent agenda so that the motion by Vice Chair Murphy is to approve the consent agenda with. 00:47:02
Item 6B through second To that motion I will second. 00:47:10
And Commissioner Zinski seconded that motion. 00:47:14
Is there any further discussion? 00:47:17
OK. 00:47:21
If not, Mr. Campbell, would you please call the roll? 00:47:22
Vice Chair Murphy. 00:47:26
Aye. 00:47:28
Chairman Izinski. 00:47:30
Aye, chair Lily. 00:47:31
Aye. 00:47:33
Commissioner Sawyer. 00:47:35
Aye. 00:47:36
Commissioner Davison. 00:47:37
Aye. 00:47:38
Commissioner Kubica. 00:47:39
We have six eyes, 0 nays and one absent. The motion passes. 00:47:41
All right. Let me raise a point of order. Well, first of all, let me reiterate. 00:47:48
Mr. Campbell's comment that the motion passed. 00:47:54
6. 00:47:58
To zero with one absence. That means there are were three items pulled from the consent agenda. 00:48:00
I believe that was. 00:48:07
6A7A and 7B. 00:48:09
Do we need this may be a question for legal counsel. Do we need to? 00:48:13
Pass a motion on 7A and B because. 00:48:18
Commissioners Sawyer. 00:48:23
In her comments said that they should be removed and continued. 00:48:25
Until a later meeting. So do we need to pass a motion to that effect or is that just? 00:48:29
What do we do? 00:48:36
Well, it depends on what the Commission wants to do. 00:48:37
Would be a motion, I suppose, that could be made. 00:48:42
To continue those items. 00:48:46
To a future meeting, either a date certain or to be determined. 00:48:48
And then you could vote on that motion and if that motion fails, then you would consider them tonight. 00:48:52
All right. 00:48:59
So they have been removed. As far as as Item 6A, I I would just talk at that. 00:49:00
Further down in the agenda, I think that's just a a matter of discussion and doesn't need any action on it. 00:49:06
But 7A and B appear that they may, and that's why I asked the question. 00:49:12
So I would last like to ask what the pleasure of the Commission is regarding that Commissioner Sawyer. 00:49:17
You pulled them. Do you have a a motion or a comment or something? 00:49:23
I would like to make a motion to pull and continue. 00:49:27
The minutes for June 8th and the minutes for July 13th until. 00:49:32
They are corrected and I'm hoping that we can get that done by September. 00:49:38
And that would be September 14th. 00:49:46
Correct. So would you like to make that part of your motion that they be? 00:49:48
Corrected and presented for approval by September 14th, the 7th or on the September 14th meeting. I'll amend that. It's a friendly 00:49:53
amendment and I accept it. Thank you. So the motion then is to continue item 7A and 7B to September 14th. 00:50:02
That the those are minutes that would be corrected. Is there a second to that motion? 00:50:11
Seconded by Mr. or Commissioner Kubica. 00:50:16
So is there discussion on this matter? 00:50:20
Vice Chair Murphy. 00:50:24
8. 00:50:26
I guess I wonder how this correction will miraculously happen. 00:50:27
And I would ask again. 00:50:31
Umm. 00:50:33
Whether this is something we could just hand off tonight rather than putting it off. 00:50:35
Do you want me to get started on all the corrections that need to be done on each of them? They're pretty major. 00:50:40
They're not insignificant if we if we don't and and I would be more than happy to work with the staff to help correct these 00:50:47
because I have written an e-mail. 00:50:53
Last month correcting the one and it did not happen. 00:50:59
Because we have some major omissions. 00:51:05
And corrections. 00:51:07
OK. Thank you. 00:51:10
OK, is there any other discussion? I I I suppose this becomes a question again as I say my favorite words have become what is the 00:51:11
pleasure of the Commission regarding this? 00:51:15
It sounds like. 00:51:20
Commissioner Sawyer. 00:51:23
Is ready, willing and able to work with staff to. 00:51:24
I'll insert my impression quickly. 00:51:28
Make these changes so that they can be docketed and brought forward to us and so that there's no further delay. 00:51:30
Because I don't. 00:51:36
Like that there's. 00:51:37
Delay. 00:51:38
And these minutes. But they have to be accurate too. 00:51:39
So. 00:51:42
If if there's no further discussion, then I I think we have a motion on the floor. It was and it was seconded by. 00:51:44
Mr. 00:51:52
By Commissioner Kubica, So we have a motion on the floor. 00:51:53
Do you have further comment? 00:51:57
And at the risk of putting. 00:52:00
Staff on the spot. 00:52:02
Umm. 00:52:04
Is what, Commissioner? 00:52:06
Sorry is proposing. 00:52:07
Does that make sense to you guys? 00:52:11
As long as I I think one of the. 00:52:15
Responses that I've given both to. 00:52:20
Chair Lily and Commissioner. 00:52:23
Sawyer. Is that as long as? 00:52:26
Are corrections. 00:52:28
Are in line with action minutes. 00:52:30
I think one of the things that's very important to recognize. 00:52:33
Is that we are now mirroring what the City Council does with their minutes. 00:52:36
And. 00:52:42
Giving and a little bit more so the only things that really could be. 00:52:43
And a little bit more. 00:52:48
The boats. 00:52:50
No, it in June the order of the minutes is incorrect. 00:52:51
There's multiple multiple issues. 00:52:58
And I would be more than happy to sit down and talk with you and we can correct it. It won't take very long. If you sending me the 00:53:00
corrections, I'll sit down with the clerk, the city clerk and we'll we'll go over them with her, OK. Cause I I have sent them to 00:53:05
you previously and they were not corrected. 00:53:10
And that's a concern. 00:53:16
I just want our minutes to be correct and again, I I just want to make sure that what? 00:53:17
Is being asked is appropriate for these resident about action minutes. It was about the order in which things were heard. 00:53:22
Yeah. 00:53:33
Send that to you. 00:53:34
Sure. Thank you. Thank you at this point. 00:53:35
People in. 00:53:39
Involved with this and made their point. So if there's no further discussion then Mr. Campbell, can you please call the roll? 00:53:40
Yes, we have, Commissioner Sawyer. 00:53:52
Aye. 00:53:55
Sure, Kubica. 00:53:57
Sorry, chair, chair, Commissioner Sawyer, Commissioner Cooper, sorry about that. 00:53:58
Commissioner Nuzenski. 00:54:07
Aye. 00:54:09
Point of order. How did Commissioner Kubica voted? He voted. Aye. Ohh. He did. I'm sorry. Yeah. 00:54:09
Commissioner Davison. 00:54:16
Aye. 00:54:18
Chair Murphy. 00:54:20
Sure Sawyer, Lily. Sorry. 00:54:23
All over the place. 00:54:27
With Six Eyes 0 nays 1. Absent the motion to continue the minutes from July or June 8th and July 13th. 00:54:30
To September 14th passes. 00:54:40
OK. 00:54:42
Then the motion, as Mr. Campbell said, passes and I look forward to that being on our agenda. 00:54:43
Properly corrected on September 14th. 00:54:51
That means then that Item 6A I will put down under item. 00:54:56
Let me see if I can get this straight. 00:55:02
I believe that would be 7B. 00:55:04
Hmm. 00:55:07
Order that would still be on consent. 00:55:08
He. 00:55:11
8B8B, I'm sorry. OK. So that will be 8B. 00:55:12
All right. 00:55:19
So 6A becomes 8B. 00:55:20
We are now to the regular agenda. This evening we have. 00:55:27
The draft Cannabis Ordinance review. 00:55:31
And. 00:55:36
This is an item that. 00:55:37
Goes back to May 17th. 00:55:40
2023, when the City Council reviewed these ordinances. 00:55:43
Answered a number of questions posed by the staff. 00:55:48
But then referred both ordinances to the Planning Commission for review and comment. 00:55:52
And so we have this before us this evening. I also believe that staff has prepared. 00:55:58
An agenda? 00:56:05
Item for this I think it's. They have a. 00:56:06
PowerPoint. 00:56:12
They. 00:56:14
Staff without. 00:56:15
Stealing Mr. Campbell's Thunder, are you? Suppose he wants to present it? 00:56:17
Proposes that we look at. 00:56:21
Chiefly 3 issues and and certainly they are important issues. 00:56:23
I also myself went through both ordinances because of the mandate from the. 00:56:28
City Council and looked at both ordinances and came up with 10 pages of questions. 00:56:34
And I. 00:56:39
Structured them. 00:56:41
Along the lines of what? 00:56:42
Do you want to do not really take into position, but obviously saw? 00:56:44
Discrepancies or issues that needed to be addressed. 00:56:49
And that included the three items that are. 00:56:51
In the. 00:56:54
Staffs. 00:56:56
Report this evening as well. So with that, Mister Campbell, would you like to proceed with your presentation? And then we'll go 00:56:57
from there. 00:57:01
Well, thank you. 00:57:05
Chair Lily and Commissioners. 00:57:06
Uh. 00:57:08
Back again before this is a Draft Cannabis Zoning Ordinance review. 00:57:10
Umm. 00:57:14
And as Chair Lily mentioned tonight, the review is to review the proposed draft Cannabis Zoning Ordinance and provide the 00:57:16
following recommendations focusing mainly on these three. 00:57:21
Uh. 00:57:27
With regards to zoning. 00:57:28
One which specific zones? 00:57:30
Good. 00:57:32
Should cannabis retailers be allowed? 00:57:33
To Should any additional separation requirements beyond the 1000 foot from schools, daycares and youth centers be recommended for 00:57:35
cannabis business? 00:57:39
And should additional parameters be considered on delivery only medicinal canvas retailers beyond proposed limitations? 00:57:43
And the industrial commercial zones? 00:57:51
On December 7th, 2022, City Council directed the City Manager and City Attorney to create a Cannabis Licensing Program consistent 00:57:55
with voter approved Measure M. 00:58:00
On May 17th, 2023, the Draft Cannabis Ordinance was presented to City Council for concept review. 00:58:06
At that time, City Council directed the Planning Commission to review the proposed zoning ordinance to address cannibal cannabis 00:58:12
retail locations, potential separation requirements beyond the 1000 feet from schools, daycares and youth centres. 00:58:18
And additional limitations and requirements for delivery only medicinal cannabis retailers. 00:58:24
On June 8th, the Planning Commission of 2023, the Planning Commission began the discussion to address the City Council's request. 00:58:32
The Planning Commission requested additional maps to clarify zoning districts and a better map of the cannabis retail business 00:58:41
buffer zones, and it was continued to a later date. 00:58:46
On November 8th of 2022 is a little bit of background. Pacific Grove Voters approved Measure M&N at the general election. Measure 00:58:54
M was an advisory measure that posed the question should the Pacific Grove City Council be authorized to amend the Municipal Code 00:59:01
to allow retail sales of medical or recreational recreational cannabis limited to one single location within the city? 00:59:08
At a location no closer than 1000 feet from any existing licensed daycare preschools youth center. 00:59:16
And schools to engage in commercial cannabis activities. 00:59:23
Measure N established the tax on cannabis businesses at the rate of 6% of gross receipts from the retail sale of cannabis. 00:59:26
Another important part to remember is that coming up in January 1st 2024 we have SB1186 which is medicinal medicinal cannabis 00:59:34
patients rights. 00:59:41
To Access Act. 00:59:48
It. 00:59:50
Requires after January 1st, 2024, the California cities and counties be required to allow retail sale by delivery. 00:59:50
Of cannabis, of medicinal cannabis. And so that's. 00:59:58
Strictly medicinal and and delivery. 01:00:02
And this ordinance and ordinances that exist that prohibit or have the effect of prohibiting the establishment of of physical 01:00:06
premises. 01:00:09
From which retail sale by delivery of medicinal cannabis is conducted, will be in violation of SB1186. 01:00:13
And so, in addition to the one storefront retail location contained by Measure M, the proposed ordinance will allow for cannabis 01:00:20
retailers that. 01:00:24
Operate his delivery only and only engage in the sale of medicinal. 01:00:29
Cannabis. 01:00:33
Umm. 01:00:37
And. 01:00:40
This. 01:00:40
The the again, the Planning Commission's consideration will be with. 01:00:42
With specific zones, there's PC recommended retailers. 01:00:47
Should any additional separation requirements be recommended for cannabis business? 01:00:51
And should additional parameters be considered for delivery only retailers with no walk in businesses beyond limitations and 01:00:55
industrial commercial zones? 01:00:59
I'd like to. 01:01:04
At this point. 01:01:05
Invite. 01:01:07
The city attorney. 01:01:09
Brian Pierick and Erica Vega if they would like to comment on this at all. 01:01:11
Yes, thank you. Aaron, can you go back to the slides at the end where the the questions are presented and and and the 01:01:18
recommendations. So you did mention what the questions were. So perhaps you can collaborate a little bit on the slide that you've 01:01:24
got up now. 01:01:30
Sure. The which specific zones does the PC recommend retailers be allowed? 01:01:39
Umm. 01:01:45
The staff recommended cannabis be allowed in the following zones that the. 01:01:46
Downtown. 01:01:50
Commercial. 01:01:51
Light commercial, Heavy commercial and Forest Hill commercial. 01:01:52
Does not recommend the C1T or the commercial hotel condominium district. It would be pretty much restricted anyway by that 1000 01:01:57
foot buffer zone. 01:02:02
And the visitor commercial and it's. 01:02:09
Basically, the Monterey Aquarium offices are already there, so it's not likely that we would. 01:02:12
Change that, use. 01:02:19
Do you want me to continue with those, Brian? 01:02:24
You know, we can do this one at a time. So it's just that when you went through the slides earlier, I don't know that you. 01:02:27
Elaborated on what the staff recommendation was. So then. 01:02:33
The second question is your next slide. 01:02:36
Should any additional separation requirements be recommended for a cannabis business? 01:02:39
We were looking at. 01:02:44
Other. 01:02:47
Potential institutions that that may benefit from that zone drug and alcohol rehabilitation facilities. The staff felt that that 01:02:48
it was important to separate. 01:02:53
Those facilities from Retail Cannabis. 01:03:00
High density residential. Both this actually. The next three have a lot more with public safety. 01:03:03
The safe parking program locations and beach locations that but all of these would basically increase they could increase Police 01:03:12
Department in enforcement. 01:03:18
The latter being the closer to the the beach would be encouraging or? 01:03:24
When we. 01:03:31
Had a discussion with with members of the Police Department. They they felt that. 01:03:33
It would increase cannabis use on beaches and trails. So these four additional areas that we think would we would recommend some 01:03:39
degree of separation doesn't necessarily have to be that 1000 feet, but it could be to the pleasure of the of the Commission to 01:03:46
discuss that. 01:03:52
What may be appropriate for those those different? 01:04:00
Those different institutions. 01:04:04
The Should additional parameters be considered for delivery only retailers with no walk in business beyond limitations to 01:04:08
industrial commercial zones, we we recommended that. 01:04:13
Not. 01:04:19
To have the. 01:04:20
Delivery only in our commercial districts and to some degree I mean that we do have. 01:04:22
We do have things like storage facilities. 01:04:28
But these they? 01:04:31
They have preserved their storefronts and we would recommend not. 01:04:32
Directing them to our storefronts since they if they were delivery only and no foot traffic, we would want to for. 01:04:39
The preservation of our storefronts promoting foot traffic. 01:04:47
And promoting economic development, keep keep the delivery only of the medical medicinal cannabis. 01:04:50
Out of the commercial district. 01:04:59
So those are the three questions that that the staff is asking from the Commission, the other thing I wanted to mention. 01:05:02
Is that the scope of the review by the Planning Commission as requested by the City Council, as I understand it is for the zoning? 01:05:11
Ordinance, since that is within the scope of the Planning Commissions charge. 01:05:21
Whereas the other ordinance is the licensing ordinance, which is not a land use issue, it's a licensing issue. So. 01:05:27
That would not be one within the scope of the Planning Commission's charge. 01:05:35
So perhaps we should stop there for a moment, and. 01:05:41
Because I I know there may be some questions about the the scope of your review and we might want to. 01:05:45
Get that? 01:05:51
Out front before. 01:05:52
We'll go on to the rest of the discussion. 01:05:54
Are you? Is your? 01:06:00
Presentation completed, Mr. Campbell. Thank you. Yes, Sir. Thank you. Before we proceed, let me briefly. 01:06:02
Review our rules this evening and then we can. 01:06:09
Get to. 01:06:12
Mr. Pierrie's comments. 01:06:13
After we. 01:06:16
Review the agenda reports and apparently review our charge. 01:06:18
I will then open the hearing for public comments. 01:06:24
Those wishing to speak speak will have 3 minutes each. 01:06:26
I will then close the hearing to further comment from the general public so that we can go through the draft ordinances. 01:06:30
Discuss and make recommendations to the City Council. 01:06:37
I'll begin. 01:06:42
In response to Mr. Perich's comment, I listened to the tapes of the Planning Commission on May 17th. 01:06:43
And. 01:06:50
I was also there. I think, in all due respect to Mr. Purick, I have a different opinion about what? 01:06:51
City Council asked. They asked us to review both ordinances. 01:06:57
So to me that's a pretty open-ended thing and as I went through these both ordinances line by line. 01:07:01
I found a number of deficiencies that. 01:07:07
Whether we correct them? 01:07:10
Somebody's got to correct them because they they have to be. 01:07:12
And this goes far beyond. 01:07:15
I think just. 01:07:18
Selecting what zones these things ought to be and for example, who should select? 01:07:19
The. 01:07:26
The the cannabis dealer, how should they be be selected? 01:07:27
And some of the language in the ordinances. 01:07:31
Appear to appears to infringe upon the use. 01:07:34
Permit authority of the City of this Planning Commission later when we reviewed all of the. 01:07:40
The so-called local licensee so. 01:07:45
I I think we need to at least. 01:07:48
Look at the broader picture. Instead of looking at one or two things and then saying we we ought to go home, that that's my view. 01:07:50
Perhaps you disagreed. 01:07:54
I'm certainly willing to listen to. 01:07:59
Or certainly wasn't. Consider each other's opinions about this so we can come to a conclusion. 01:08:03
So who is who would like to speak? 01:08:09
Vice Chair Murphy. 01:08:11
Well, again, again, very respectfully, Mr. Mr. Burke, I I listened to the tape. 01:08:14
And and the Council was clear, that was asking us. 01:08:20
To review both ordinances. 01:08:24
I understand that title 11 is not usually. 01:08:26
Under our charge. 01:08:30
And some of those items. 01:08:32
And frankly, I don't care about one way or the other. But they did. They did ask us. 01:08:34
As as. 01:08:39
And I I. 01:08:41
Don't I recall that both you and then city manager? 01:08:42
I've been Harvey were asked clarifying questions and you both said. 01:08:46
That what the Council asked was for the Planning Commission to review both both ordinances. 01:08:51
And and if if my memory is faulty I I apologize but I don't. 01:08:56
I don't think it is. 01:09:04
And as the chair. 01:09:06
Pointed out there are some areas of overlap. 01:09:07
In the ordinances that I think are not are not clear and would benefit by some. 01:09:12
Some clarification. 01:09:18
My hope would be that we spend. 01:09:21
Umm. 01:09:23
You know, not much time on Title 11. 01:09:25
But when you do do address. 01:09:27
Those. 01:09:29
Those pieces that. 01:09:30
The. 01:09:32
Seem to relate to and perhaps conflict with the title three that is our. 01:09:33
Our usual. 01:09:39
Territory. 01:09:41
Thank you. 01:09:42
Thank you. 01:09:43
Any other comments, Commissioner Sawyer? 01:09:45
I looked through the general plan in the chapter that has to do with land use because I was concerned about what we were being 01:09:49
charged with. I was at the meeting as well. 01:09:54
When the City Council did give us a charge, they asked us to look at. 01:10:00
Both of these ordinances and when I looked at the general plan, when I looked at page 18, it talked about alcohol sales downtown. 01:10:04
And one of the things that it did state was. 01:10:11
Needed to make sure that the quality of life and general public safety in Pacific Grove was maintained. 01:10:19
Then it also talked about on page 24 non conforming uses. 01:10:26
In order to grant any use permit, the Planning Commission must make the finding. 01:10:32
That the use or building applied for will not be detrimental to persons or property in the neighbourhood or to the general welfare 01:10:38
of the city. 01:10:42
I think that gives us a little bit. 01:10:48
More perspective and allows us to look a little bit broader because. 01:10:51
As I went through both of these ordinances, I also had. 01:10:57
A number of questions as there were some deficiencies and some overlap. So it would be helpful I think to have our eyes on it just 01:11:00
to ask questions and to quickly go through. 01:11:06
Areas that. 01:11:12
Aren't. 01:11:13
Important. 01:11:14
Thank you. 01:11:15
Thank you. 01:11:16
If it. 01:11:17
Commissioner, I mean Mr. Campbell, you, you. 01:11:18
Seemed to have something you wanted to say, so I'll recognize you. I appreciate that. 01:11:22
In preparing for this staff report, one thing that I did, I did go back and and watch on it. 01:11:27
Over and over and you you are correct where at the end of the meeting when they were. 01:11:34
Giving direction, they said. Let's give both to both of these ordinances to the Planning Commission. 01:11:40
The one thing that I didn't see during the meat of it that when. 01:11:46
Zoning was was brought up. 01:11:51
Both. 01:11:54
Luke Colletti and and the mayor and and everyone said send it to if I felt. 01:11:58
And especially when drafting this, I felt there was they were giving a direction. 01:12:04
I would. 01:12:09
If we. 01:12:10
If you do not feel or if the Commission doesn't feel that. 01:12:11
Enough direction was given specifically for. 01:12:14
The Chapter 11. 01:12:19
Because I feel like they were very clear. 01:12:21
On Chapter 23, what was being asked, they went through very specific questions and those are the questions that that we had, that 01:12:23
I drew from those, from that meeting. 01:12:28
It's fair if you. 01:12:33
Didn't feel that you had enough direction concerning Chapter 11 just to ask and and see if they have any specific. 01:12:35
Things that they'd like for you to look at. 01:12:43
That would be my my suggestion. Thank you. Appreciate that. 01:12:46
If there's consensus on the Commission, I would prefer to proceed looking at both ordinances, certainly beginning with the ones 01:12:50
the issues that staff has pointed out, because they are embedded in the 10 pages of questions I have. 01:12:57
As we come to things in #11. 01:13:03
That we think we we need to gloss over or quickly dispose of we can. 01:13:06
But as I said before, we we don't need to ask the City Council any further what they. 01:13:12
What they intended, they said, what they intended and and at this point we're parsing words and wasting time. 01:13:18
So I would prefer we move along. 01:13:23
And if there's without objection, then I would like to move along. 01:13:25
Vice chair or I mean Commissioner Dzinski. 01:13:30
Please turn on your microphone. Thank you. My question is should we go to public comments at this time or I I think we. Well, yes 01:13:34
I will. Well, but I'm OK. Yeah I'll I'll do that under these circumstances. I I we we were gonna do that anyway. So if we're if 01:13:40
we're done with this portion of the discussion then I will go to public comment and I appreciate. 01:13:47
The comments by everybody and and staff. So with that, is there anybody who's raised and Mr. Period, do you have any further 01:13:54
comments? Yeah, yeah, I did. It's certainly your prerogative if you want to look at the both ordinances. I just made my comments 01:14:00
because I I had understood that it was at least primarily the zoning ordinance since that's kind of the bailiwick for the Planning 01:14:06
Commission, I should also. So if you want to consider both ordinances, you certainly don't have the legal right to do that. And 01:14:12
the other thing is that my partner. 01:14:18
Erica Vega is also on the line, and she's the one that wrote the ordinance, so in case you had any questions either now or later, 01:14:24
she's available to respond. 01:14:28
Ohh, I'm sure we will have questions of Miss Vega and I'm glad she is in attendance this evening so well and I didn't get a chance 01:14:33
to welcome her. I don't see her picture up on the screen, but welcome. 01:14:38
So with that, do we have any, if if that's it, Mr. Purrington will proceed on and I think the first person on the docket is Mike 01:14:45
Gibbs, is that correct or is there anybody in the audience first who would like to? 01:14:51
To address. 01:14:57
Mr. Tuminello, I think does, and then we'll go to Mr. Gibbs. 01:14:59
So welcome. 01:15:03
No. 01:15:10
It's. It's red. So now well. 01:15:11
Wait, is it on now? Oh, OK, good. OK. Vince Tuminello, Pacific Grove resident. 01:15:16
And I'm a little stunned that this is even still an issue. You know, when when they had Measure M on the ballot? 01:15:22
Personally, I think it was misrepresentative making illusions that we were gonna raise $300,000 a year. 01:15:27
And tax revenue from this one single storefront store, maybe including the delivery, I didn't even realize. 01:15:35
But that was gonna be part of the program. 01:15:43
But that that was my era. But anyway, if you take a look at other cities, the industry of growing marijuana. 01:15:45
The industry of selling marijuana licensed by different municipalities. 01:15:53
Has very much underperformed. 01:15:58
The presented expectations to the public. 01:16:01
And this measure M. 01:16:04
Alluded to the to the idea we were going to raise $300,000 which in the overall city budget is a drop in the bucket. So I don't 01:16:05
know how many people were swayed by that, but they were miss swayed if they were. The other thing is I know a lot of people who 01:16:11
was auditions would be great. I don't have to drive out the seaside. 01:16:16
Well, a lot of people go out to Costco. I don't see anybody complaining about going to Costco. Why do we need a marijuana shop in 01:16:22
Pacific Grove, our quaint, beautiful little town? And I certainly wouldn't put it. 01:16:28
In public's knows like on Central Ave. Lighthouse Ave. down by the aquarium, these places would be totally out of. 01:16:34
My concept of a good location for a pot shop. I'll tell you what I think if you're going to insist on doing this. 01:16:41
The only place that I think would be affordable to it. 01:16:47
Would be up across the street from Safeway parking lot, across the street from the Goodyear store behind the French Bakery. Up 01:16:50
there, there's a little shopping center that's kind of out of the way and not too obvious. 01:16:56
And if you want to put a pot shop someplace in the city, put it up there. Nobody leave it, notice it except those people who find 01:17:02
it to be a necessity either for medical or recreational needs to go there. But also, let me mention, you know, this is not legal 01:17:07
on the federal level. 01:17:13
You're putting yourself in liability by going along with this because at some point. 01:17:18
Sometime in the future. 01:17:23
There may be a, you know, ramifications. Some lawyers will get together. Someone was injured, overdosed too much THC, wound up in 01:17:25
the emergency room. 01:17:29
Which happens quite often if you talk to anybody from Chomp. 01:17:33
They have a lot of OD THC people up there who are completely out of their minds, passed out and debilitated in other ways. God 01:17:37
forbid one of these people gets in a car accident and injured in some other way, says Hey, you know that I I bought a license shop 01:17:43
by the city of Pacific Grove. 01:17:48
Gee, you know, they're violating federal law. Well, is that going to really fly? 01:17:54
I mean, I I. 01:17:58
And it just amazes me, you know, that we have a federal law. 01:18:00
Does not allow. 01:18:04
Promotion sale of marijuana yet? We're all going well going ahead with this. 01:18:06
So I want to wish everybody luck who participates in this, but I know you'll feel obligated by the City Council will do so. I know 01:18:11
the mayor is here. 01:18:15
I know the expectations for $300,000 a year are way over the top. 01:18:19
And is it all going to be worth it in the end? Thank you so much. Thank you. 01:18:24
Is there anybody else in the audience? If not, then I think we can go to. 01:18:34
Zoom. 01:18:40
With Mike Gibbs. 01:18:41
Planning Commission, thank you very much. This is Mike Gibbs again with the EDC. I'm speaking on my own behalf about the cannabis. 01:18:46
Issue. I completely agree with Mr. Tuminello on this issue and I. 01:18:53
I kind of feel bad that you all have to do this, but as long as you do, please. 01:18:57
Take on both of the ordinances, not just the one that seemed like that. The city staff member was trying to force you in One 01:19:02
Direction. Thank you for pushing back. 01:19:06
My comments are going to be a little bit more at a higher level of this. You know, Big Tobacco right now is the big investor 01:19:10
behind Big Cannabis. 01:19:15
And they pushed the lie or the myth, let's just put it that way, that cannabis was safe and that there's medicinal marijuana we 01:19:19
need to have it in. 01:19:23
All of our cities not true. 01:19:27
Last year I attended a a meeting at the Pacific of High school. 01:19:29
About fentanyl, I don't know if any of you were there, but two ER doctors, doctor Rib Closen. 01:19:33
Casey Grover were there from montage. 01:19:39
And they delivered a a very compelling look at. 01:19:42
Drugs inside Pacific Grove? 01:19:45
And three people got up. Three parents got up and talked about their children who had died from fentanyl. Guess what they all 01:19:48
started with? Cannabis. 01:19:51
So the doctors handed out. 01:19:56
A paper. 01:19:59
They talked about the three myths that have been perpetrated that caused cities like Pacific Grove to pass this abomination. 01:20:00
Really. 01:20:04
And one is that marijuana is a medicine. Now these are directly from Montage, ER doctors. 01:20:08
And most studies show that there is. And we already know there's no FDA approved medical marijuana. There is 0. There's none. It 01:20:13
is often used for anxiety and depression. 01:20:19
The yard docks at Montage would point out that, in fact, marijuana makes anxiety and depression even worse. 01:20:24
Not better. 01:20:31
2nd Myth there was perpetuated by Big Cannabis that marijuana is safe. It is not. 01:20:33
It is the leasing leading cause of suicides among teens in the United States. It increases depression, anxiety and psychosis. 01:20:38
Psychologists and I saw this first hand myself, and it is something to see if you've never seen it. 01:20:45
Myth #3. It has no effect on driving. Not true. 01:20:53
There's a direct relationship between high levels of marijuana and the ability to drive safely. 01:20:57
Myth #4. It has no effect on school work. 01:21:03
That is been proven to be not true, that we know that marijuana reduces brain growth. 01:21:08
Brain growth. 01:21:15
Among kids and youth under the age of 25, and it affects their ability to perform on tests. 01:21:17
You know, graduate on time. It contributes to absenteeism and dropouts. 01:21:24
And I don't think that's something that we want to. 01:21:29
Even think about it because it's too horrible to really cogitate on it. 01:21:32
That's number five. Marijuana is not addictive, and this is a big one. 01:21:36
I don't know how anybody can possibly think whether it's medical marijuana or not. 01:21:41
They all have high levels of THC that somebody may tell you different. It's not true and one of the things that some point if 01:21:46
you're going to look at one of the measures. 01:21:50
I would look at THC dosing. The dosing is 20 times higher than it was 50 years ago when I was treating people and it is way too 01:21:55
high and overdoses. 01:22:00
Occur all of the time and there is no Narcan. There is no nothing that you can take if you have a THC overdose. 01:22:05
And one of the things is that many of you are parents. You may have experienced cannabis or marijuana back in the 60s or 70s. 01:22:14
And parents think that's not a big deal because when I was doing it. 01:22:21
When I was token, you know, when I was smoking, it wasn't a problem unfortunately. 01:22:25
Their experience doesn't apply to teenagers today, and parents don't understand the current risk. So I honor your, you know, 01:22:29
having to take this from the City Council. It was an advisory measure. We should have never approved it as a City Council. City 01:22:35
Council already knows that. So good luck with this. 01:22:40
And I and I admire the fact that you're approaching this in the correct way. So thank you very much, Chairman Lilly and the rest 01:22:46
of the Planning Commission. 01:22:49
Thank you. 01:22:54
We have influence and Dahmer welcome. 01:22:57
Response. 01:23:00
Goodness gracious, what a bunch of. 01:23:02
Propaganda. 01:23:06
Excuse me, there is a medical use for marijuana. 01:23:08
Tell that to the cancer patients you just absolutely dismissed. 01:23:14
Umm, as far as your? 01:23:20
As far as your. 01:23:24
Following what the council recommended. 01:23:25
Yes, I will agree. 01:23:28
That they asked you to look at all of it. 01:23:31
And I realized that this city is a little bit disarrayed right now. 01:23:34
Because the head propagandist is no longer. 01:23:40
Uh. 01:23:44
Manager. 01:23:46
City manager and guess what the organizational chart still says? The City Council. 01:23:48
Is right up there underneath. 01:23:54
The citizens of Pacific Grove. 01:23:57
Who voted for this? Whatever reason, it's fine. 01:24:00
I myself has views. 01:24:05
Cannabidiol products. 01:24:07
And been to many different dispensaries. 01:24:10
Throughout many years. 01:24:13
I had a medical license from the state. 01:24:15
Not for high THC content whatsoever. 01:24:19
Because I need it to manage pain and it is mostly CBD products. I don't want to get high, believe me. I want to speak my mind 01:24:23
perfectly sober, thank you very much. 01:24:30
So here we go. You are charged with this. 01:24:37
I am. I am asking you. I I figure this is going to end up kind of being like a skate park. The only thing I agreed with the last 01:24:42
two speakers on is probably up there in the Forest Hill behind. 01:24:48
Whatever and across from Safeway, you know, that's about the only thing I can agree upon. Because. 01:24:54
I didn't hear anywhere with I I heard the CV, you know, and and transient, but I didn't hear the CVAT C1, which of course is my 01:25:01
area of the woods. 01:25:07
And the fact that Monterrey has approved apparently 21 on Lighthouse Ave. in New Monterey there and one near Cannery Row will 01:25:14
Yeah, this isn't a real good thought. 01:25:22
Saturation and whatever. 01:25:29
Yes, I approve of delivery only in some industrial little place. They don't need a large warehouse for this. 01:25:32
There isn't going to be. I don't even know if you're going to find. 01:25:40
Someone who wants to do it to tell you the truth. 01:25:44
Because this high dosage, really high THC which are from medical ones which are. 01:25:48
For cancer patients, et cetera. 01:25:56
They already have their connections, so to speak, their dispensary. I don't think Pacific Grove is ever going to realize the money 01:26:00
they think they are from this. 01:26:04
And. 01:26:10
Anyway, I don't think another one down here. And yes, I'd like to see some zoning between. 01:26:12
Residential areas. 01:26:18
I don't think the CV ATC is a good idea at all. 01:26:20
And umm. 01:26:25
And as far as the ordinances go, since we really don't have a permanent city manager right now, I think it'd be a good idea to 01:26:28
take any of that out of the ordinances because it needs more oversight. 01:26:34
Than anything else. I am very hopeful of what we'll get in next but. 01:26:41
I'm not relying on staff, so to speak. 01:26:49
Thank you very much. 01:26:52
Thank you. 01:26:57
If Tony Chiani welcome. 01:26:58
Good evening, Commissioners and staff. 01:27:05
And other members of the public. 01:27:09
I'm probably not a good candidate for talking about this, because. 01:27:12
I don't use marijuana or. 01:27:16
And other stuff. 01:27:19
But one of my cats does. 01:27:21
Umm. 01:27:24
And I had to go to Seaside. 01:27:25
To fulfill the vets. 01:27:27
Prescription for it? 01:27:29
Umm. 01:27:31
But as a planner. 01:27:32
And looking at the parameters. 01:27:35
Sort of the design parameters that you need to consider. 01:27:38
If it's 1000 feet. 01:27:42
From. 01:27:45
Residential areas. 01:27:47
Or schools or churches and things like that. 01:27:49
Then I suggest you get out your. 01:27:52
Your. 01:27:55
Protractors. 01:27:58
And draw the circles. 01:27:59
And figure out where from the edges of any. 01:28:02
Commercial areas. 01:28:06
Or industrial areas. 01:28:09
That there are not residences or schools. 01:28:11
And. 01:28:16
As I. 01:28:17
Understand. 01:28:19
The zoning maps. 01:28:20
There's not a lot of places like that in Pacific Grove. 01:28:22
I don't think Pacific Grove is really a great place. 01:28:25
For selling and distributing. 01:28:29
Cannabis products. 01:28:31
Except. 01:28:33
Possibly. 01:28:34
To have some sort of a. 01:28:36
Not even a storefront? Some sort of a? 01:28:39
Delivery service. 01:28:42
So enterprise? 01:28:44
That could deliver those. 01:28:47
Products primarily probably for. 01:28:49
Health purposes. 01:28:52
To people who need it. 01:28:54
And that way it'll be more accessible. 01:28:56
That way I wouldn't have to drive to Pacific to Seaside. 01:28:59
To get this little bottle of stuff. 01:29:03
That I drip on my cat's food. 01:29:06
So my cats. 01:29:10
Doing a little bit better. 01:29:12
Take a scientific. 01:29:16
Approach to this. 01:29:19
Look and see. 01:29:21
If there's any areas. 01:29:23
That are not in the coastal zone. 01:29:24
Not visitor serving. 01:29:27
Uh. 01:29:29
That. 01:29:30
Or visitor commercial areas. 01:29:31
That. 01:29:33
Can accommodate this kind of use. 01:29:35
That's a difficult choice. Thank you very much for your work. 01:29:37
Thank you. 01:29:42
We have Marsha. 01:29:46
Marsha. 01:29:47
Welcome. 01:29:48
Good evening, Mr. Chair and Commissioners. 01:29:50
Umm. 01:29:55
I'm glad that you opened up the discussion and that you're going to be opening up your review. 01:29:56
Umm. 01:30:04
I'm. 01:30:07
I'm primarily going to address. 01:30:08
Your. 01:30:11
Land use responsibilities as they relate to health, safety, welfare, quality of life. 01:30:14
And. 01:30:22
And something that was not put on the. 01:30:24
On the referendum that went to to the vote. 01:30:28
Was the fact that there are a lot of health issues. 01:30:32
Mental health issues. 01:30:36
Related to cannabis, for example. 01:30:38
In May of 2023. 01:30:42
A new study was done. 01:30:45
In Denmark that. 01:30:48
Considered. 01:30:51
6.9 million people who ranged in age from 16 to 49 between 1972 and. 01:30:54
2021. 01:31:02
This was also done in conjunction with the US. 01:31:03
Researchers and they found. 01:31:09
That marijuana use increases schizophrenia risk in young men. 01:31:11
As many as 30% of schizophrenia cases among young men could have been prevented if they had avoided marijuana. 01:31:17
There was a lesser percentage. For young females it was 4%. 01:31:28
This coincided with previous research that showed that. 01:31:35
The psychoactive ingredient in cannabis, called THC, may trigger or worsen schizophrenia. Long term and heavy cannabis use can 01:31:40
alter the way. 01:31:45
That brain works, and it especially impacts developing brains of teenagers. That's something to consider about our youth. 01:31:51
Also, weed related ER visits are up 44% in New York City. 01:32:01
And. 01:32:10
There's also an article about. 01:32:12
Candy weed. 01:32:15
No protection from marijuana child poisoning. 01:32:17
Over 7000 children under the age of six were exposed to cannabis in the US. 01:32:22
Do between 2017, 2021. 01:32:29
And they found. 01:32:34
15%. 01:32:36
Marijuana related hospital encountered. 01:32:38
Encounters required hospitalization, 4% required mechanical ventilation. 01:32:41
Root candy was responsible for 43% of pediatric poisoning. 01:32:49
So. 01:32:55
Ah, consider that when you're considering zoning. Thank you. 01:32:56
Thank you. 01:33:01
No one else online, No one else online, alright, we just one person just popped up. 01:33:08
Person popped up, Melinda. 01:33:15
Miller. Miller. 01:33:18
Mueller, Mueller. 01:33:20
Welcome. 01:33:22
Hello. 01:33:24
My name is Melinda Derwin Mueller and I am a resident of Pacific Grove. 01:33:26
I am also a mother. 01:33:33
I have two children in local schools who are young. 01:33:36
And I am a cannabis user. 01:33:40
And. 01:33:44
I'm not a schizophrenic. 01:33:45
I'm a. 01:33:47
Totally normal human being. 01:33:48
And me, along with all other Pacific Grove residents. 01:33:52
Who are adults and choose to use cannabis to drive out of town? 01:33:56
To spend our money. 01:34:01
In Carmel. 01:34:03
In Seaside. 01:34:06
And in. 01:34:08
Salinas. 01:34:10
To buy our cannabis. 01:34:12
If you put a. 01:34:15
Cannabis Dispensary in Pacific Grove. I can guarantee you nobody's going to drive to the edge of the peninsula. 01:34:17
From Salinas or Seaside to buy cannabis. 01:34:23
But all your Pacific Grove residents will be spending our money locally. 01:34:27
You will be getting the tax money. 01:34:32
It won't be going to Carmel or Seaside. 01:34:33
If. 01:34:36
You'll get all the tax money. 01:34:37
And you'll be serving us. 01:34:39
You're not going to attract people from Seaside who want to drive all the way out here for something like that. 01:34:41
And this is coming from a totally normal human being who is has two children locally. I am an upstanding community member. 01:34:48
And I'm a totally normal person and I'm just sick of driving to Seaside. 01:34:57
To spend my money it should. It should be local. 01:35:02
Ensure visitors will. 01:35:06
Possibly also. 01:35:08
Partake. But you know, we also sell alcohol locally, so it's the same thing. 01:35:11
There is already. 01:35:16
Umm. 01:35:17
Deliveries that we can get out here. 01:35:19
But you know, just. 01:35:21
As far as driving and going elsewhere. 01:35:23
You would you would save a lot of Pacific Grove residents. 01:35:27
Driving, driving time and you would get yourself a lot of tax money. 01:35:32
And. 01:35:37
I'm not a schizophrenic. We're just, you know, we choose not to drink alcohol. 01:35:38
That's a totally normal thing and people just need to start getting used to it. 01:35:43
And Pacific Grove is just super behind on this. 01:35:47
Other towns are already. 01:35:51
Way ahead of us. 01:35:53
Just like with cutting down trees like let's, let's get to the present day here in town. 01:35:55
So. 01:36:01
I hope that you listen to somebody who is a cannabis user. 01:36:01
And an upstanding Pacific Grove resident. 01:36:05
I appreciate you your time. Thank you very much. 01:36:08
Thank you. 01:36:12
I see no other hands, all right. 01:36:16
So then. 01:36:19
At this point I will close. 01:36:21
This matter to further public comment so we can proceed to. 01:36:25
Consider all these issues and so. 01:36:31
Umm. 01:36:34
Without objection, then let me. 01:36:36
Use the format that. 01:36:39
Initially suggested by the staff and that's the first item actually on the list I provided, and that would be. 01:36:43
And what zones should? 01:36:50
Storefront cannabis retailer be allowed. 01:36:52
I let me propose this, though, that we go through. 01:36:55
The ordinances. 01:37:00
And look at the questions that we've. 01:37:01
Identified You may have other questions you wish to identify. 01:37:03
We'll talk them through. 01:37:06
We we had a discussion a couple of months ago. 01:37:09
Where we? 01:37:12
Almost like a kitchen table discussion about our thoughts about this thing, but now we I think we need to focus on the specific 01:37:13
issues before us. 01:37:17
That have been outlined by the staff and in the. 01:37:21
Presentation that I provided so. 01:37:25
Without objection then we'll proceed. And so the first question that staff raised was which specific zone should. 01:37:28
Planning Commission. 01:37:35
Recommend retailers be allowed. 01:37:37
And that's in the. 01:37:39
Ordinance, 2392. 01:37:41
And that would be in. 01:37:44
Ohh 6 OB 2. 01:37:46
And staff recommends cannabis be allowed in the following districts. 01:37:48
Downtown commercial like commercial. 01:37:52
Heavy commercial which is C2 and Forest Hill commercial. 01:37:55
The original ordinance also had. 01:37:59
Visitor. Commercial. 01:38:03
And CIT, which would be, I think, just the Holman block, if I'm not mistaken. So there there's. 01:38:05
Some change there in the. 01:38:14
The the initial state, the initial ordinance and and then what staff recommends so. 01:38:18
Best way I know it is just to go go through one by one and and hear everybody's thoughts. So who would like to begin? 01:38:25
I I'm in accord with the staff recommendation it makes it makes sense to me. 01:38:35
OK. 01:38:40
So that would be then the ones that are listed here on their first recommendation. OK, all right. 01:38:41
Who else would like to comment about? 01:38:47
That issue, Commissioner Sawyer. 01:38:49
I just was wondering about the downtown commercial area that. 01:38:51
Does that preclude are basically historic? 01:38:56
Blocks. 01:39:00
You know it's true. How do you mean if we all get it doesn't preclude any if downtown commercial would be all CD. 01:39:04
If you let it in retail. 01:39:12
It it would include the whole lighthouse area. 01:39:15
It. 01:39:18
Go ahead. 01:39:20
I'm, I'm sorry. 01:39:20
It would not because of the buffer zones. 01:39:22
So if you look at the bus buffer zone maps. 01:39:24
There's very, very little of the downtown commercials. There's maybe 3 parcels in the whole of downtown where? 01:39:27
Ohh allowed. 01:39:34
All right. 01:39:36
I don't have a problem with it then. 01:39:38
Thank you, Commissioner Nuzenski, Thank you. 01:39:44
Seemed to have your hand raised for a bit, yeah, I I support the staff recommendation for item number one. 01:39:47
OK. 01:39:54
So. 01:39:55
I have a question so CV which is this does not include visitor commercial correct? 01:39:57
OK. And that is where that is. 01:40:04
I don't have my zoning map, but. 01:40:08
We have these maps at the end of. 01:40:11
Again, there are a few of them. There's. 01:40:14
Ohh, if you look on the screen there there. 01:40:17
It's the blow up from map 2. 01:40:20
So can you see where this is? This map too is. 01:40:24
I'll take it back to this area. 01:40:27
The first CV area. 01:40:30
Is. 01:40:34
Right around that. 01:40:36
Central and that is a recommendation. It's a very small block. 01:40:37
Ohh. 01:40:42
We're. 01:40:44
This is. 01:40:46
The mayor saying it's a Meals on Wheels. 01:40:48
So it's a very small. That CB area is very small, and then there's another area over. 01:40:54
Which, which is that that area over by the. 01:41:00
The aquarium offices. 01:41:04
Warner there were the. 01:41:11
OK. 01:41:13
Order there were the aquarium offices are that's a happy girl kitchen. 01:41:14
As I understand it, OK, the thing, they're up in the corner. 01:41:19
By Hopkins, that is. 01:41:24
The old Monterey boat works, is that correct? 01:41:26
Well, that was years ago. I don't know what they call it now, but that's what it was years ago. Ohh, you mean on this? Well, we 01:41:31
have it on this. Is it the same spot on this map here that. 01:41:35
You can see that. 01:41:39
Campbell. 01:41:47
I know there are a lot of different maps. 01:41:48
It might make sense to be using our zoning map and and just if you want to use the whole yeah screen, let me pull the whole. 01:41:50
There we go. OK, that. That's. That's clear to me. Maybe not to others, but it's clear to me. So CVS then means. 01:42:02
The boat works location in the northeast northeast corner. 01:42:11
Of the city. 01:42:15
Next to the budding the aquarium property. 01:42:16
The heavy Girl kitchen. And then there was there a third one. 01:42:19
Ohh, down by the. 01:42:23
They're in the the upper left corner of map 2. 01:42:25
Yes. And that would be the. 01:42:29
Ohh, is that where? 01:42:32
Is that the the, the, the Community Center? 01:42:35
It's a senior housing. The senior housing in that area, Yeah, that area in there. 01:42:40
Umm. 01:42:45
And then the the one down and then they're down here on the bottom on map one and that would be those are actually that's C2 01:42:47
that's heavy commercial that that's why I tried to get these a little bit blown up because they the way that they hash these they 01:42:53
don't a lot of sense that's C2 down in the on map 1. 01:42:59
So the happy girl one is really see, two not. 01:43:06
CVS. 01:43:10
Miss. 01:43:11
Mr. Chair, that's not happy. Go kitchen. That's down down on by slow, I think. There. 01:43:12
You're right. That's where the and that's not, but that's that's C2 and that's the Quonset Hut, right? Yeah, that's the Quonset 01:43:19
Hut. 01:43:23
And so the visitor commercial really is just that one. 01:43:29
Corner there. 01:43:33
So what is the consensus then of of the Commission that we we use the staff's? 01:43:40
Recommendation. Do we need to take a vote on some of these things or? 01:43:46
It's it appears that you have any comment, Commissioner Davidson about that or no, I'm missing with everybody else? 01:43:50
So perhaps, Mr. Campbell, you can take copious notes of this, yeah? 01:44:01
And. 01:44:07
Record that we're in agreement with it, I think. 01:44:08
The staff recommendation on this, unless there's a desire to take a vote on some of these things, if if there appears to be 01:44:12
controversy, we can. 01:44:15
OK, Mr. Chair, this is Brian Perry. My recommendation would be you do a motion on it so you formalize your direction to the 01:44:19
council. 01:44:23
Alright, so may I have a motion then to approve the staff recommendation number? 01:44:30
But Commissioner Sawyer, when you say staff recommends cannabis be allowed in the following zoning districts, are we? 01:44:37
Delineating which cannabis? Or is it cannabis in its entirety? Because we seem to. 01:44:45
Want to have delivery and storefront so when you say cannabis, you're just lumping it all together. 01:44:53
Right, No. 01:44:59
This is the retailers. The why doesn't it say cannabis retail, that is. 01:45:02
Ohh. 01:45:09
Up above the. 01:45:10
Thank you. OK. Let let let me ask a question though but. 01:45:11
This. 01:45:15
This still is subject to the 1000 foot rule. 01:45:16
Yes. 01:45:20
So. 01:45:20
Even many of these are are potentially knocked out exactly, yes. 01:45:22
I would if we could ask Erica Vega just to, since she did. 01:45:28
Prepare the ordinance, I want to make sure, because what we have. 01:45:34
In the. 01:45:39
The ordinance itself and that 60. 01:45:42
Be two. 01:45:44
It says it does say use for permit for a cannabis business. 01:45:49
Shall be granted subject the following. 01:45:52
So if, if Eric could, Erica could chime in on on if we are. 01:45:56
If these delivery only if we can. 01:46:01
If that is being eliminated from this and we're just talking about retail because the retail it's still the delivery only is 01:46:04
retail, it's just medicinal retail. So this is. 01:46:09
So maybe you could help us make this motion correct. So the purpose of of this question and for the purposes of this motion, it 01:46:15
would pertain to your storefront retailer, not your delivery or any delivery only retailers that's addressed in this second 01:46:20
question. 01:46:25
Umm. 01:46:30
And. 01:46:31
And to get to the comment, I think or heard from Chair Lily, it's sort of a a double layer. So first she would kind of. 01:46:33
Identify the zone where the storefront. 01:46:40
Or or zones where the storefront business could locate and then you would take the map that has the radius to figure out which 01:46:43
which sites within each of those zones are even available. 01:46:48
OK. 01:46:56
We haven't gotten to the question yet on the. 01:46:58
On the. 01:47:00
Additional the separation so. 01:47:02
But once you once you finalize that and once council finalizes that, that's how it would work. 01:47:04
I know I have a number of questions about the medicinal SO. 01:47:09
Defer that. 01:47:13
But. 01:47:14
So the CIT or C1T district excludes the home and block. 01:47:16
Although the home and block. 01:47:23
Is. 01:47:25
Really within 1000 feet of a lot of things. 01:47:25
So it's almost. 01:47:29
It's like. 01:47:30
This leaves out of your vest, I suppose. 01:47:31
It was an analogy. 01:47:34
All right, so is there a motion to this? 01:47:36
I know that. 01:47:39
We recommend we I move that we approve the recommended. 01:47:41
Staff recommendation. 01:47:46
For them. 01:47:48
Retail store. 01:47:49
Zoning, registrations, storefront retail. 01:47:51
Storefront Retail. Thank you. 01:47:54
OK. Is there a second to that motion? 01:47:56
OK. 01:47:59
So. 01:48:00
Commissioner Nijinsky moved that we accept the staff recommendation. 01:48:00
On. 01:48:05
Storefront. 01:48:06
Cannabis. 01:48:08
Retailers be allowed in. 01:48:09
So zoning districts of CD C1C2. 01:48:10
And CFH. 01:48:14
And I believe also that that would include the 1000 foot buffer. 01:48:18
Am I correct with? 01:48:22
The friendly amendment for that or. 01:48:23
No. 01:48:25
OK. 01:48:27
And there's a seconded by Commissioner Sawyer. So is there further discussion? 01:48:28
If not, then Mr. Campbell, can you call the roll please? 01:48:33
Or I'm sorry, commissioner, Kobe, cut. Make sure that we're. 01:48:37
I want to make sure we're very specific. 01:48:41
OK. That it is not the UH delivery service? 01:48:43
The. 01:48:47
There would be no confusion in the future and if retailer. 01:48:48
Using the term retailer is the correct legal term. 01:48:53
To do that. 01:48:56
Then I have no problem. 01:48:57
But I want to make sure that it is not. 01:48:59
Storefront retailer. It's the motion guy. And that that is the one. 01:49:02
Retailer that the city will then. 01:49:07
Require a. 01:49:09
License for. 01:49:11
OK. 01:49:12
Is that is that specific enough, Miss Vega? 01:49:13
I would just like to clarify. 01:49:16
That a storefront retailer, the 1 storefront retailer. 01:49:18
Could offer delivery service as a part of their business. 01:49:23
And that would be allowed. So it would be a combination of storefront walk in. 01:49:27
Sales and Delivery sales. 01:49:33
That is, that is an option. 01:49:35
Under both state licensing and how the the licensing ordinance for the city is currently drafted and we haven't received any. 01:49:37
Concrete direction. 01:49:47
On whether. 01:49:49
On the specific issue of allowing. 01:49:50
Delivery. 01:49:53
At the storefront retailer from the City Council at this point in time. 01:49:54
So that would be basically if the dealer then at this point so chose. 01:49:59
Correct. They wouldn't be mandated to it, but it is something that they could. 01:50:04
Decide to provide as a part of their business model. 01:50:08
All right. 01:50:12
Is that clearer than to everybody, or are you satisfied with that, Commissioner? Yes, I am OK. 01:50:13
Then if there's no further discussion, could you call the roll, Mr. Campbell? 01:50:19
Yes. 01:50:24
Commissioner Nazki. 01:50:26
Commissioner Sawyer. 01:50:29
Aye. 01:50:30
Commissioner Kubica. 01:50:31
Aye. 01:50:33
Commissioner Davison. 01:50:34
Aye. 01:50:36
Commissioner or Chair Lily? 01:50:37
Aye. 01:50:40
And Vice Chair Murphy I. 01:50:41
We have six eyes, 0 nays and one absent the motion to. 01:50:43
Accept the recommendations by staff to allow. 01:50:53
The zoning districts CD, C1C2C, FH. 01:50:57
For. 01:51:02
Storefront Cannabis retail passes. 01:51:03
OK. 01:51:06
So, as Mr. Campbell said, the motion passes and. 01:51:07
So we are now come to recommendation. 01:51:12
Set #2, which is. 01:51:15
Now we just read this from the staff report because this is better written than what I had. 01:51:17
In my. 01:51:22
Presentation. Should any additional separation requirements be recommended? 01:51:23
For a cannabis business. 01:51:29
And that would be 239207 O. 01:51:31
Staff. 01:51:35
Considers recommends considering the following additional separation requirements and the. 01:51:36
First separation requirements. 1000 feet I believe. 01:51:40
But high density residential, there's four of them here. High density residential beach locations that could increase. 01:51:44
PDI. 01:51:51
Presume that means Police Department enforcement. 01:51:52
And smoking on beaches and trails. 01:51:55
Drug and alcohol rehab facilities and should cannabis retail or medicinal delivery be allowed near businesses designated for? 01:51:58
Safe parking programs? If so, what hours of operation should be regulated? 01:52:07
For clarification, safe parking programs, would that be the one for homeless women at the Methodist Church? Is that what we're 01:52:12
talking about or we're talking about something else? No, that's that's correct. 01:52:17
Is there any other? 01:52:22
That you know. 01:52:23
No, that's correct. Alright. And that that is embedded in some kind of. 01:52:24
City sponsored program I believe that safe parking. 01:52:28
Situation, Yes, OK. Just for clarification. 01:52:33
All right. Are there any comments about this? 01:52:36
Vice Chair Murphy. 01:52:40
Hey. 01:52:41
I'm not sure in this context what qualifies as high density residential. 01:52:42
We were. 01:52:48
Looking at. 01:52:51
Things in our more apartment buildings, so R3 are four areas. 01:52:53
We can be specific to the to a zone if it's near a zone, or we can be specific. 01:52:58
To. 01:53:03
Condominiums or or apartment buildings? 01:53:08
That's thank. Thank you and I. 01:53:12
I wouldn't favor additional buff. 01:53:15
Buffers for those, but I guess I'm interested in hearing what other people think. 01:53:17
Commissioner Davis. 01:53:24
Yeah, if I could follow up on that. What's the thinking behind? 01:53:26
Doing additional. 01:53:31
Separation for high density residential rather than. 01:53:32
I guess standard single family home. 01:53:35
That that came from a recommendation from a police commander. I think it it. 01:53:38
I don't know specifically. 01:53:45
Why? I think it has to do with more. 01:53:47
Potential police patrolling. A lot of their recommendations had to do with the increase in in police patrol, but I'm not 100% sure 01:53:50
what his. 01:53:54
Who's your Sawyer? 01:54:07
Umm. 01:54:08
Where are the drug and alcohol rehabs I only know of? 01:54:10
1. 01:54:15
Is there a second one? 01:54:16
I think it's just the one, yeah. And and that's up on pine, so. 01:54:22
I think the idea here is that necessarily when when doing planning, we're thinking of not only just. 01:54:27
Of what exists. But what may exist, like your buffer map for example, will change over time with new licensed daycares or schools 01:54:33
or youth centres. So if you add these, it will also change over time if we include any future drug and alcohol rehabilitation 01:54:38
centers. 01:54:43
And then one other question. 01:54:49
What street is the Safe Parking program on? 01:54:51
That on sunset if. 01:54:55
I'm sorry, I'm. 01:54:57
Commissioner Sawyer, I would recommend we don't talk about the location of the safe parking, OK? 01:54:59
Thank you. 01:55:04
I understand. Thank you. 01:55:06
Question. 01:55:14
I had a question. Somebody else have a question? 01:55:21
Gateway. 01:55:25
Facility, is that considered? 01:55:27
High density residential. 01:55:30
Without standing where it is. 01:55:32
It's it serves. 01:55:36
Developmentally challenged individuals and it's a. 01:55:38
Residential facility. 01:55:43
That. 01:55:45
Considered A. 01:55:47
That. 01:55:48
Uh. 01:55:49
Chair Lily that. 01:55:50
That's. 01:55:52
A known. 01:55:53
Location for residential facilities for people with. 01:55:54
Hi. 01:56:00
Needs. 01:56:01
And. 01:56:03
Yeah, that's just. 01:56:04
But it's in the R zone anyway, I guess, so we're OK. 01:56:05
Yeah, yeah. 01:56:09
All right. 01:56:11
All right. 01:56:13
Is. Let me ask you this is. 01:56:19
Everybody knows where the. I'm not sure who operates it now, but Beacon House is on Pine. 01:56:22
Is that outside 1000 feet of? 01:56:29
Down school. 01:56:33
I can't tell from no, no. 01:56:35
So it's very good. So it's within that so. 01:56:41
Practice and then and then the and then the. Then there's also the bridges. 01:56:44
Ministry. 01:56:50
Called House there at the corner of Evans and. 01:56:52
And everybody knows that, so I don't think I'm divulging any secret locations here or anything like that. 01:56:55
Corner of Central and Lighthouse. 01:57:00
I mean. 01:57:03
Let me see it again light. 01:57:03
Central and Evans, which is near the nursing home just down from the nursing home. 01:57:05
Is that? 01:57:10
Is that? 01:57:12
Outside without 1000 feet of somewhere I I can't tell from. 01:57:13
That's within that as well. I guess we're OK there. 01:57:19
Seems like there's a lot within that 1000 feet and I I will be honest, I'm, I'm still learning or. 01:57:23
Our area being three months into the job, so. 01:57:30
Sure. 01:57:38
Lozinski. 01:57:38
Well. 01:57:39
Since Aaron's not gonna do it, I'm gonna do it. 01:57:41
He I spoke with him before the. 01:57:44
I spoke with him this week about the measurements. 01:57:48
And in addition to. 01:57:51
This was his idea that the the. 01:57:54
The way you measure the 1000 feet is. 01:57:57
Is. 01:58:00
Also important to measure from other locations outside of Pacific Grove. In other words, if there's a school on the border in 01:58:01
Monterey. 01:58:05
And it's, you know, we couldn't put it there because it's too close to that school. Or if Monterey decides to put a daycare center 01:58:08
on the border of Pacific Grove. 01:58:12
That's gonna knock us out of that area. 01:58:17
So in other words. 01:58:19
They do a circle. 01:58:20
What they do is they work backwards once the, once once the. 01:58:22
The the location is determined then they draw 1000 circle from that location to see what what's in that location. 01:58:26
So that's another way of determining. 01:58:34
Whether or not it's still going to be able to pass. 01:58:36
So this is only really within the city of Pacific Grove, what we're talking about. But I also want to point out, yeah, that. 01:58:40
What the staff's going to do? 01:58:46
Is they're going to determine once even before it comes to us. 01:58:48
Whether or not that location is acceptable once you know, because it's going to look in 1000 from that location in all directions. 01:58:53
So the point is again if if Monterey decides to put a daycare center on our border. 01:59:00
We could be in trouble for, you know, not allowing it. 01:59:05
This just that. I just want to make that point, Commissioner Sawyer. 01:59:08
Could I just ask a clarifying question because. 01:59:12
You sort of answered it, but I still have a question. So. 01:59:16
We have like 1/2 a block that's. 01:59:19
Robert Down School. 01:59:23
So how do we determine what's 1000 feet do you drop? 01:59:25
A pin on all the corners and go 1000 feet from that. Do you drop a pin in the middle of Robert down? I'm very confused about the 01:59:31
1000 feet. 01:59:35
So when talking about the storefront retail? 01:59:39
There will only be one right? So I just. 01:59:43
Is that that question to you? Yeah. Well, it's not. 01:59:47
I guess the the the best way to describe it it's from property lines is what the way I understand it's going to be from the 01:59:53
property line. OK, but that's that's also. 01:59:57
That's also looking at it on, I mean on the from one side what's 1000 feet from the school, but you give me a location, I'll look 02:00:02
1000 feet. 02:00:06
From that location to see if anything fits within that. 02:00:11
Because. 02:00:15
I guess that. 02:00:16
That buffer zone is a guide for us right now to look at and say. 02:00:18
This is where we wouldn't be able to do these things. 02:00:23
Someone still has to come up with the location and we will still do our due diligence in making sure that when we receive that 02:00:27
location, we know that there are none of these facilities within 1000 feet. 02:00:34
Or if in these facilities you choose to do a different number, I mean that's you don't have to if you. 02:00:40
If you decide to use additional separation requirements from from the facilities that staff is recommending. 02:00:46
You can say 1000 feet, or you can choose another number that might be. That's up to you. But. 02:00:54
Through the chair. 02:01:00
I have seen some cities go down to 600 feet. 02:01:02
So. 02:01:06
Make a comment to amplify what? 02:01:09
Mr. Campbell said. 02:01:12
Having gone through the recusal process on a couple of projects. 02:01:14
The FPC looks at it as. 02:01:18
From quarter nearest corner of the. 02:01:20
The parcel. 02:01:23
The next nearest corner of the. 02:01:25
The one in. 02:01:27
And questions so And it's by the crow flies. 02:01:28
That's how it works. It's it's spelled out that way in the ordinance and I believe it's spelled out that way in the ordinance as 02:01:33
well as is, vice chair Murphy said. 02:01:36
In addition, the courts have ruled of Amplify a little bit on what Commissioner Zinski said. 02:01:41
Courts have ruled in in zoning matters that. 02:01:47
Sony has issues. Have to take an approval. Has to take projects for use permits, has to take an approval. 02:01:50
The. 02:01:58
The disposition of. 02:02:00
Of facility they have to consult the the adjacent cities is the best way of saying it. 02:02:02
Fumbling around here a little bit, they have to consult the the the adjacent city. They just can't assume it's everything stops at 02:02:07
the city borders, which you're absolutely correct. And frankly, I had forgotten about that, so I'm glad you brought that up. 02:02:13
I have to give credit to the staff for that. Thank you and I'm glad that that's where we have the staff. 02:02:20
On the side, we were just discussing this as well. You can make a recommendation. 02:02:27
To to say. 02:02:34
Let's let's be specific in the zoning of where that 1000 feet starts. So. 02:02:36
You can do that. You can if if I'm correct. Erica, is that something that we could do? Sorry, it's a little awkward for me to 02:02:41
interject. 02:02:45
The zoom. 02:02:50
The ordinance already has a specific measuring. 02:02:50
Description. 02:02:54
It's from the. 02:02:55
Property line to property line from the closet at the closest points. 02:02:58
And it's in a straight line, so as the profiles from the closest points of the two property lines is how it's measured. 02:03:02
Now, if you disagree with that and you would like to recommend something else, you're free to do so, but that is how it is 02:03:10
currently drafted. 02:03:12
Sanski. 02:03:20
Yes, Chair Lily, as far as the staff recommendations for other things to consider, I support. 02:03:21
Considering these things, mainly what I'm struggling with is. 02:03:27
Umm. 02:03:31
How much of A buffer you know it? It would be arbitrary for me to just recommend a buffer. 02:03:33
You know, in other words, I I would like to look to see what other experts may be. 02:03:38
Maybe ask the Police Department to help us out. 02:03:45
As to what? What buffer they would recommend and then. 02:03:48
And for and and to research it more to see the benefits of it, for example. 02:03:53
The drug and alcohol rehab, I didn't really consider that. Now I know that that could be in different locations. I don't know if 02:04:00
that has any, you know, restrictions on it from how far those things are from schools or anything like that, but. 02:04:05
Umm. 02:04:12
I'm not sure if. 02:04:13
If the consideration is someone's on drug or rehab. 02:04:15
I don't know how much of the difference of a walk is it from 500 feet to the 1000 feet? I really don't know. 02:04:19
You know that that's really. 02:04:25
You know, benefit. However, as far as beaches are concerned, I again, I don't know how much of A buffer, if any, I would consider, 02:04:27
but I do think that we these are good recommendations. 02:04:32
And coming from a good place, and I do think that maybe we should. 02:04:37
Considering. 02:04:40
OK. 02:04:42
Commissioner Davison yeah, I think off the the back of that if Miss Vega could maybe weigh in as she has a number, you know, 02:04:43
extensive experience in this and then the second comment I would make. 02:04:49
Is I'm happy to like Commissioner Lozinski to go along with with all the recommendations. I would just ask that we remove the high 02:04:56
density residential. 02:05:01
That's just a potential equity issue. If we're talking about housing, I don't know why high density would be. 02:05:06
More effective than single family homes. 02:05:12
I'd like to ask miss Vega question. So if. 02:05:17
A cannabis dealer is licensed and approved and has used permit and opens and then a school. 02:05:23
Comes nearby within the 1000 feet buffer. 02:05:32
That was were adopted. 02:05:36
The fact that it's open, we can't remove their license, am I correct? I mean, once, once it's done, it's done. 02:05:38
So the. 02:05:45
It's not the license, it's the use permit, right And so on. And no, you would not. You know there's sort of a first, first in time 02:05:47
issue there. You you can't. Once the use permit is issued and they relied upon it, they attain A vested right to to to that use. 02:05:56
That's what I thought. 02:06:05
Yeah. 02:06:06
And as to the question regarding. 02:06:07
Buffer zones. 02:06:11
Umm. 02:06:13
You know, it's it's really a more of a community standards and kind of issue rather than a strictly legal issue. 02:06:15
From the legal standpoint, my advice is really just to make sure that you're not making it so onerous. 02:06:24
That you have overly limited the number of sites that would even be available to the businesses and undercutting your regulatory 02:06:31
program. 02:06:34
Umm. 02:06:39
But in my experience, I would say we're I work with agencies that do use buffers. 02:06:40
Umm. 02:06:46
1000 feet is kind of the maximum that I see. 02:06:47
That that is certainly the the largest radius. I I would say 600 feet. 02:06:51
Is more common. 02:06:58
And sometimes even only 300 feet. 02:07:00
And that that is more aimed at. 02:07:03
Not necessarily like a police patrolling kind of rationale. It's more based on like a. 02:07:06
Odor rationale? Noise rationale? No different than you know, Maybe not wanting to have a. 02:07:15
Uh. 02:07:20
Home directly adjacent to, you know, a convenience store or a liquor store or some other kind of use where this. 02:07:21
Them being in super close proximity might not be the most compatible, so it really just depends on what. 02:07:30
That the intent of the buffer. 02:07:37
Is. 02:07:40
Thank you. 02:07:43
We sure could become. 02:07:45
For clarification. 02:07:48
Is this question for both store or both? 02:07:52
Facilities or just? 02:07:56
The retail facility. 02:07:58
So this is for both. 02:08:01
Because we are. We are. 02:08:05
Operating sort of under the the premise that the. 02:08:07
Separation requirements that were approved in the measure M. 02:08:11
Would be applied to both. 02:08:16
But again, these are all none of this is mandatory so. 02:08:19
The Commission is free to. 02:08:23
Make alternative recommendations if you. 02:08:25
If you don't. 02:08:28
Think that the same buffer should apply to the delivery only business? Then you're. 02:08:29
You're welcome to make that recommendation. 02:08:34
So if we add these. 02:08:36
Particular. 02:08:39
Recommendations. 02:08:40
Does that do the overlapping constraints then become so? 02:08:43
Onerous. 02:08:48
That we accept effectively eliminated. 02:08:49
The delivery service and we're violating the state law that goes into effect on 1st. 02:08:54
You want to answer that, Mister Miss Vega or? 02:09:02
Well, I would need to see maps essentially to make that determination. 02:09:05
But it's my understanding you you you're talking about one facility. 02:09:10
Potentially on the drug and alcohol rehabilitation. One facility on the safe parking program. 02:09:14
Umm. 02:09:20
And I would have to refer look back to the maps to see. 02:09:21
How much of your commercial and industrial is near a beach location? So you could probably kind of get a rough estimate of it just 02:09:25
based off of the maps you already have before you know the high density residential. It sounds like maybe there's. 02:09:32
There might not be a majority support for that, so maybe we figure that out first and cross that bridge if if we need to. 02:09:39
Let me make the comment and I I would prefer that we because. 02:09:50
We. 02:09:54
Limited #1 to. 02:09:55
Storefront businesses, I think we should limit this question to that and then take up the. 02:09:58
Delivery only as part of #3 or as a separate issue so that. 02:10:05
There's no question that we're talking about. 02:10:09
Storefront here. 02:10:12
Which may have different criteria or ought to have different criteria than the other, and I think that would just simplify. 02:10:14
Otherwise, we're going to get. 02:10:21
We're just going to get bogged down. 02:10:22
I'll also make the comment that. 02:10:25
Talking some time ago to the police, they do patrol the beach locations. 02:10:27
Every night, almost, it seemed. Or often. 02:10:33
For. 02:10:36
Drug abuse. So it would seem that that would be. 02:10:37
Of a viable place for them to. 02:10:40
For us to. 02:10:43
Uh. 02:10:45
And on to the list here. 02:10:47
So. 02:10:51
You you had your hand raised, Mr. Murphy. 02:10:52
And perhaps I'm not. 02:10:56
Understanding this issue, but I I would not favor an additional buffer. 02:10:57
For any of the any of the four. 02:11:02
And I again, perhaps I don't understand the purpose of a. 02:11:06
Of a buffer. 02:11:09
And the high density residential doesn't doesn't make sense to me. 02:11:10
Safe parking program. 02:11:15
The way it's. 02:11:18
Described in the agenda. 02:11:19
Perhaps that has to do with operating hours and wanting a business not to be operating after 10 or 9 so that would disturb people 02:11:22
the safe parking. 02:11:26
So I I sort of understand that. 02:11:31
And the beach part doesn't make sense to me. 02:11:34
Drug and alcohol rehabilitation. I guess the theory is you don't want to place. 02:11:37
For people trying and recovery, you don't want a place that's convenient for them to go, I guess I. 02:11:43
You know, I I'm not very familiar with the world of recovery, but. 02:11:50
Again, this doesn't make sense to me really. 02:11:55
OK, So what is our pleasure on this? 02:12:00
We were a little bit all over the map on this in terms of. 02:12:03
Let me let me go down. 02:12:10
The list and so to speak, number one, are we talking about? 02:12:11
Storefront only business with this number 2. 02:12:16
If if that's in degree, if we're in agreement on that and then we'll we'll come to a motion, so. 02:12:19
OK. So then the second question would be, there's three questions I think then. 02:12:24
Do these additional. 02:12:29
Items or should they be adopted? And then the third one is, is that 1000 foot buffer the appropriate number? So there's three 02:12:32
questions. 02:12:36
I think here. So we've answered the first one. The second one is. 02:12:41
This, this list and there's four here. 02:12:46
And. 02:12:49
You know, we've we've. 02:12:51
Kind of. 02:12:53
Under that around. 02:12:55
Commissioner Davison. 02:12:57
I would agree with that, Commissioner. 02:12:59
Murphy. 02:13:02
That I also don't necessarily see a need for separation requirements. 02:13:03
For the the four list here. 02:13:07
For the? For the what for all of the components here? 02:13:09
OK. 02:13:13
So. 02:13:14
Vice Chair Murphy and and I was just going to add for the safe parking program. 02:13:18
If if the concern is a business hour hours of operation for a business. 02:13:22
We could address that in the Commission and the conditional use permit and and limit the operating hours. 02:13:29
OK. 02:13:35
So. 02:13:37
Is there then? 02:13:39
Commissioner Sawyer. 02:13:42
I too agree with Commissioner Murphy, Vice Chair Murphy and with. 02:13:44
Mr. Davis. 02:13:51
And the chair. 02:13:52
Commissioner Davison, excuse me. 02:13:55
So if I if I hear at least three Members stating that you don't believe we should have any of these things here at all, is that? 02:13:58
My understanding, OK. 02:14:07
Umm. 02:14:09
Do you wanna make them well? The third item then is the 1000 feet. 02:14:11
Is 1000 feet. 02:14:15
The right number or. 02:14:18
Should it be less or more or? 02:14:21
Something else? 02:14:23
Less. 02:14:25
What should it be? 02:14:27
600 feet. 02:14:29
Ohh, I'm sorry. 02:14:30
600 meters. 02:14:32
Somebody better get out their calculator. 02:14:36
Mr. Campbell, just get a clarification. Sure we're talking about. 02:14:39
I I think that and I'd have to check with Erica the measure M. 02:14:43
Mentioned 1000, Can they change that for less? Yes, that was an advisory measure. 02:14:48
So it's not binding. 02:14:55
But it is indicative of what there's community support for. 02:14:58
It's possible that the community would have supported different separation requirements. You don't know, it's speculative. 02:15:03
But the Commission This Commission is free to recommend a a reduced buffer requirement for daycare centers, youth centers, 02:15:10
preschools, and and public and private schools. 02:15:15
And the City Council can decide what whether it agrees with that recommendation or not. 02:15:21
All right. 02:15:26
Fair enough. 02:15:27
So. 02:15:28
We're back to the the distance 600 meters of 1000 meters, 1000 feet, 600 feet. What are what are we talking about here? 02:15:29
Well, it sound doesn't have the votes to pass. 02:15:39
Distance doesn't matter. Since it's not, it seems like the commission's going to say, and I'm kind of leaning towards that way 02:15:43
now, is to not add additional buffers. 02:15:48
Commissioner Davidson. 02:15:54
Just as a point of clarification, I think what we're discussing right now is the additional separation requirements, but I believe 02:15:56
what you just brought up was all separation requirements, including schools and daycares. 02:16:01
Just to get everyone on the same page. 02:16:07
Right. 02:16:09
OK. 02:16:10
Correct. That was my understanding as well. And that that's how I phrased my response. I'm hearing no support for additional. 02:16:11
Buffers perhaps from at least three of you, and then the separate question is whether. 02:16:18
You would want to reduce the buffer below 1000 for the other categories that aren't listed in that bullet points on the slide. 02:16:26
Right. So maybe we should just come to a consensus if if we're going to have separation requirements for .2 and if we do want to 02:16:36
talk about. 02:16:40
Changing. 02:16:44
Yeah, buffers for 4.1. We can do that separately. 02:16:48
Lester Murphy. 02:16:53
You know, apparently we have the discretion to suggest changing the buffers, but I would really hesitate to do that. Measure M was 02:16:54
based on 1000 foot buffer. 02:16:59
It's an advisory measure, but that's why people voted for and I I don't. 02:17:03
And I'm certain the council wouldn't go along if we wanted to change it. And I I don't see any reason for us to change it, OK? 02:17:07
So then the question would be then these four items, should we? 02:17:15
Should any additional separation requirements be recommended for a cannabis business? So do I have a motion regarding this? 02:17:21
What, Commissioner Sawyer? 02:17:28
I make a motion that there be no additional separation requirements recommended for a cannabis business for. 02:17:31
Drug and alcohol rehab facilities, high density residential safe parking program locations. 02:17:40
And beach globe locations. 02:17:46
Thank you. 02:17:48
And is a. Is there a second to that? 02:17:49
I'll second that, seconded by Vice Chair Murphy. Let me add ask for clarification. That would be for storefront cannabis 02:17:52
businesses, not medicinal delivery. 02:17:56
That would be for retail, is my understanding. 02:18:01
Alright. 02:18:04
So that should be added into the motion. 02:18:05
I'm sorry. So retail includes both delivery only and storefront. So can you just clarify, is it storefront retail or delivery only 02:18:09
retail? 02:18:14
Or both. 02:18:21
In the motion. 02:18:23
I mean, can we do both and you can do both, Yes. I just want to make sure we're we're clear because it sounds like there's maybe a 02:18:25
misunderstanding as to the scope of the motion. 02:18:29
Which language should I use in? 02:18:33
Retailers. 02:18:38
I'll retail. OK, so I will amend my. 02:18:39
Motion to state that there are we're not requiring any additional separations for all retail. 02:18:43
For all retail. 02:18:50
Cannabis businesses. 02:18:51
And I accept the change. 02:18:53
All right. 02:18:55
So the motion is to not accept any additional separation requirements recommended for a cannabis retail business. 02:18:56
Are moved by. 02:19:04
Commissioner Sawyer, seconded by Vice Chair Murphy. 02:19:06
There's no further discussion. 02:19:09
That Mister Campbell, can you please call the roll? 02:19:11
Commissioner Sawyer. 02:19:15
Mr. Murphy. 02:19:19
Aye. 02:19:20
Commissioner Nizki. 02:19:22
Aye. 02:19:23
Commissioner Kubica. 02:19:24
Aye. 02:19:26
Commissioner Davidson. 02:19:27
Aye. 02:19:29
Cheer Lily I. 02:19:30
With six eyes, 0 nays and one absent. 02:19:32
The motion to not add any additional separation requirements to all retail cannabis. 02:19:36
Sales. 02:19:44
Passes. 02:19:46
Right, so now we go to #3. 02:19:49
Of the Staffs. 02:19:52
Report. 02:19:54
Should additional parameters be considered for delivery only retailers with no walk in business beyond limitations? 02:19:55
In the industrial commercial zones. 02:20:02
Then in the Bullet says staff recommends considering limitations in the downtown. 02:20:05
Commercial. 02:20:10
You know the commercial downtown zoning districts CD to preserve retail. 02:20:12
Storefront retail and promote foot traffic. 02:20:16
What does that mean? 02:20:19
I was just wondering that myself. So could you clarify that Mister Campbell, so that we understand I'd be happy to delivery only 02:20:22
or no foot, no foot traffic store. So these are the the medicinal cannabis delivery only so they would not have a storefront. 02:20:30
And to put them in our. 02:20:39
Commercial district may take up our storefronts that could be used. 02:20:41
That would encourage. 02:20:46
Economic development. You know a a storefront retail shop. 02:20:48
So we're recommending not to put them. 02:20:53
In in those storefront areas, it doesn't have to necessarily be. 02:20:56
We're not specifically saying all of that. 02:21:01
Commercial district, because we do have certain areas, we have a, we have a, a storage. 02:21:05
Unit there that has some storefronts. 02:21:11
So you could actually say. 02:21:14
We would recommend not to allow this in our commercial downtown storefronts that that's kind of where we're. 02:21:16
We're leaning toward. 02:21:23
So basically what you're saying is the staff recommends considering limitations. 02:21:28
For. 02:21:34
Medicinal. 02:21:35
Retailers. 02:21:37
Not to be in the downtown area to. 02:21:39
Keep. 02:21:43
And promote Storefront Retails for other businesses. 02:21:44
Is that what you're saying? 02:21:49
For walk in businesses, yeah, right. So similar, yeah. 02:21:51
Maybe you can maybe if I could and and and please Aaron, correct me if I'm wrong if I missed this, but kind of to flip flip how 02:21:55
it's phrased to reflect how question one was presented to essentially the delivery only medicinal businesses would be allowed in 02:22:01
your industrial and your commercial zones except for the CD district. 02:22:08
Yes. 02:22:19
That's what. 02:22:20
I think that means. 02:22:21
Can I make ask public clarification Davison March that we're having places that don't require a storefront in areas that don't 02:22:25
have storefronts. So pretty much if you're doing like van delivery. 02:22:31
You wouldn't have a storefront downtown. 02:22:37
Or am I confusing this? 02:22:41
Sure. I I'm I'm hearing this as you. 02:22:44
For the delivery, because there's no actual need for customer action. 02:22:47
That we're not putting into place that has a storefront that would then shut down customer interaction at a place that could have 02:22:51
it, Yes. OK. 02:22:55
Yes. 02:22:59
Vice Chair Murphy, you had your hand up. I I'm not familiar with how these delivery services operate. Does it delivery service? 02:23:01
Is that? 02:23:10
Is that a warehouse? 02:23:11
Plus somebody dispatching, Yeah. Or is it just the dispatch in the warehouse? Might be somewhere else. I I just don't know how it 02:23:13
works. 02:23:17
Commissioner Murphy, if I may. 02:23:21
Through the chair. A lot of. 02:23:24
Downtowns are seeing these types of delivery service businesses take up a lot of storefronts and. 02:23:27
Utilizing. 02:23:34
Good downtown space. 02:23:35
That could be so it's it does. It could hurt. 02:23:37
Economic development efforts, right? I'm sorry, get all that. I'm just asking. 02:23:40
How they work? Is it a? 02:23:45
Is it a warehouse with the product in the warehouse plus somebody or some people dispatching from their warehouse? 02:23:47
Or is when we talk about it, is it just? 02:23:54
A facility that has dispatchers. I'm trying to figure out where the. 02:23:57
The product is. 02:24:00
The product is on site. 02:24:03
Thank you. Yes, it's on site and to call it a warehouse, I mean technically perhaps, but it's nothing like you would expect of a 02:24:06
warehouse. It's it's not a large facility like you you think of with a you know online retailers or anything like that. It's it's 02:24:12
a small facility, they hold the product. 02:24:18
And they have vans or other vehicles that they use to make deliveries when purchases are made. 02:24:24
Thank you. Yeah, let let me ask Miss Vega question and this this gets into the the whole issue of. 02:24:31
Of. 02:24:39
The the delivery business. 02:24:40
The state law that was just passed. 02:24:43
We don't recall Senate Bill 1186. Is that 11? Well, whatever it is, yes. 02:24:48
There's language in it that says to the effect that you we cannot. 02:24:56
Prohibit. 02:24:59
Or or. 02:25:02
Restrict ish is the better word restrict. 02:25:03
These businesses, if it would have the effect of outlawing those visits, those. 02:25:08
Those businesses. 02:25:12
So is limiting this to the eye zone in Pacific Grove, which is basically 2 parcels. 02:25:14
Does that. 02:25:21
Kind of get into that area. 02:25:22
That's. 02:25:25
So I guess maybe point of clarification for for myself. 02:25:26
Because sometimes the I think as people are turning their heads, I'm missing some things that are being said and the mics aren't 02:25:30
picking them up. 02:25:34
So when I made the comment earlier. 02:25:39
It's my. 02:25:42
Understanding that the staff recommendation is that they be allowed in industrial and commercial. 02:25:44
But. 02:25:49
Not the CD commercial zone, but other commercial zones would be allowed. Is did I? Am I misunderstanding the staff recommendation? 02:25:50
Ohh so see 1C2C. FH yes. But again it goes into the 1000 foot buffer issue as well and so it effectively prohibits. 02:25:59
Those items really and and just about any place in the city except the eye zone. 02:26:10
I think I mean. 02:26:17
Murphy, I'm sorry, I think the ordinance the way it's written. 02:26:20
Has the the delivery located only in the I zone? Exactly, yeah, that that is how I initially drafted it. But that's essentially 02:26:24
placeholder text. I mean it I never received direction at the very, very early stage on that issue because I had it hadn't gone to 02:26:31
this Commission or the council yet. So you know it was always brought forward with sort of that as a placeholder because that was 02:26:39
my recommendation based off of my experience with other agencies, however, other agencies I work with. 02:26:46
Have much larger industrial zones. 02:26:54
So if that is the true that you only have two parcels in your entire city zoned industrial, then I think that is a something that 02:26:56
definitely should be taken into consideration. 02:27:02
Well, that seems to me to be an issue. I mean, that's just a cursory look at it. You know, you look at the zoning map, well, 02:27:08
there's only two of these. 02:27:12
Places and they're in the southeast W portion of the city. 02:27:16
Does this really work in light of the nature of this legislation that got passed? 02:27:19
That's the question I I was going to recommend that we amend our ordinance. 02:27:25
To allow it in the I zone. 02:27:30
The C2 zone. 02:27:33
In the CFH or Forest Hill zone. 02:27:35
See one? 02:27:42
Good morning. 02:27:44
Remind me. See one? 02:27:47
Like commercial? 02:27:51
And that. 02:27:53
And can I ask a clarifying question from state to staff Commissioner Davison? Yes, go ahead please. Can you clarify which zones in 02:27:55
the commercial area? So obviously not CD, but. 02:28:00
Which ones have you guys recommended? 02:28:06
So that maybe that can guide our discussion here. 02:28:09
C2. 02:28:12
Originally we expanded from just that industrial zone we were we were kicking around the C2 zone. It all puts it in that. 02:28:15
Area you know over where the lumberyard is and and it is, it is limiting. So that was kind of a question that came up to us as 02:28:25
well, are we? 02:28:28
Would we look as if we are? 02:28:33
Prohibiting by. 02:28:37
You know, we're putting in these certain areas and so. 02:28:39
The reason that we, so that's why we we threw out the commercial zones, I mean through in sorry the commercial zones, other 02:28:42
commercial zones. 02:28:46
But then the thought was. 02:28:50
Well, geez, do we want? 02:28:52
That's why we brought up the the downtown commercial and our storefronts being taken away for these purposes. And so when we're 02:28:54
looking at this additional parameters. 02:28:59
It's saying, OK, well maybe we keep it with the same parameters as the storefront retail except. 02:29:04
We don't want these to take up any of our, uh, our storefront walk in. 02:29:10
Retail stores that could take away and and limit some of our economic development. 02:29:16
Is that clear? 02:29:22
From OK. 02:29:23
Who is your Kubica? 02:29:26
Chair Lily. 02:29:28
We are already have stores downtown that take up the. We already have businesses that take up the storefronts. 02:29:29
In our downtown. 02:29:36
We have. 02:29:38
So. 02:29:40
If we go overly constraining, I mean I I wouldn't want them delivering, having deliveries during the middle of the day. 02:29:41
But, you know, I don't know if we could say that they could be in. 02:29:48
The commercial district The CD district, but limit the hours of delivery to the facility. 02:29:51
I don't know what. 02:30:00
If we already have it in town, are we overly constraining by saying we we can't do this? 02:30:02
I know that's a an issue. That's a that's a legal question. 02:30:09
Do you want to address that, Miss Vega? I don't know. Do you understand the question? I'm not sure I did, that's why I asked, but. 02:30:13
Sorry, I started to talk before I took myself off mute. 02:30:22
You know it it's really difficult to say. I mean this is a brand new law that hasn't even gone into effect yet. So we really don't 02:30:26
have any guidance on. 02:30:30
What it means to have the effect of prohibiting? 02:30:34
That is the term of art that's used in in the state law. 02:30:39
And so. 02:30:44
You know, whether an enforcing agency or a business that perhaps is looking to locate in the city. 02:30:46
Uh. 02:30:55
Challenges the city's regulations. I mean, we just don't really have any precedent that we could cite to to say that no, we're 02:30:57
within the boundaries or we're not within the boundaries. So unfortunately, I mean this is just the best I can do to answer your 02:31:01
question. 02:31:05
And certainly you know. 02:31:10
Common sense dictates that. 02:31:14
The less sites that you make available, the more likely that it would be found to have the effect of prohibiting, but I can't say 02:31:15
with any certainty you know if you. 02:31:20
If it's. 02:31:25
Two sites versus 5 sites versus 25 sites. 02:31:26
How how that would shake out in terms of a? 02:31:30
Court. 02:31:33
OK. 02:31:35
Umm. 02:31:36
So I thought I heard. 02:31:37
I've heard a couple of different things but. 02:31:40
1. 02:31:43
It was relatively clear, was in addition to the eyes that. 02:31:44
The eye zone, and that would be for. 02:31:48
Businesses, retailers, Delivery only retailers. I think I'll get that. 02:31:51
Designation right Delivery only retailers with no walk in business. 02:31:55
Would not would be allowed in the I zone. 02:32:00
And then? 02:32:05
Vice Chair Murphy said Perhaps we could change this to the commercial FH, which is Forest Hill and the Commercial. 02:32:06
2. 02:32:13
I don't know how the rest of you feel about that, but. 02:32:15
That seems to be. 02:32:18
On the face of it, more locations to get us out of the. 02:32:20
Potential quandary and it is, Miss Vegas said The law hasn't been enforced or implemented yet, but the potential quandary of. 02:32:24
Not complying with the law. 02:32:33
Commissioner Sawyer. 02:32:36
What? 02:32:39
About C1. 02:32:40
That that. 02:32:42
Let me respond to that. Well just doesn't see see one falls into the same category as C2C D and and the staff made the comment 02:32:43
about. 02:32:48
Taking up our storefronts for these these purposes and and recommended and the CD No. 02:32:55
Commissioner Davis. 02:33:02
I don't know if I'm jumping the gun here, but can I make a motion to follow staff recommendations? 02:33:04
For this question and then maybe clarification from staff of which. 02:33:11
Zones you plan for? 02:33:16
We need to let me get a second and then and then the staff can respond. I'll send, I'll get a second. 02:33:20
Invite Commissioner Nuzenski. 02:33:26
So, Mr. Campbell, whenever, whenever you're ready. 02:33:35
It's all in the buffer. 02:33:39
Let me let me. 02:33:43
You know this to Erica real quick to see if. 02:33:45
We can we, I mean it's no problem to add these zones or or be specific we can say any of them. 02:33:52
And and I think I do. 02:33:57
Yes, it does. Does Eric, do you have any comment on this at all or? 02:34:03
Umm. 02:34:08
I mean. 02:34:09
I think my my comment is is that. 02:34:10
I believe that Staffs concern regarding preserving your sort of walk in retail spaces for economic development purposes is. 02:34:13
Correct. Indefensible. It's a it's a reasonable justification for excluding some of your commercial zones. 02:34:23
And then I would, I would, I would punt it back to to you all to tell me. 02:34:29
What zones those are? I know it's CD. 02:34:33
Umm. 02:34:36
Are there others? 02:34:37
Uh. 02:34:39
And if that. 02:34:40
Has the effect of, you know. 02:34:41
Eliminating all of your commercial zones, then I think we need to take a look at well, well, which commercial zones. 02:34:44
Umm. 02:34:51
Would be perhaps at least a little bit more appropriate. Maybe they're a little bit more auto centric than pedestrian centric and 02:34:52
and have those discussions. 02:34:56
Umm. 02:35:00
From a legal standpoint. 02:35:02
It's hard to say. I mean if if it's true that industrial only has two parcels, then I would suggest you do add something in 02:35:06
addition to industrial. 02:35:11
But I I don't know your zoning. 02:35:16
And well enough to be able to say specifically that the characteristics of your your commercial zones, which ones are suited to? 02:35:20
Sort of a delivery only business versus those that aren't. 02:35:29
Mr. 02:35:37
Campbell, I'll recognize you. To further elaborate, while you, you referred a question to Miss Vegas, so do you want to? 02:35:38
Continually comments or. 02:35:44
If we're going to tag team this one with anesthesia, yeah, if you don't mind, Director, why now? 02:35:47
Ohh. 02:35:52
Chair Lily. 02:35:53
We. 02:35:55
I think the idea I'm going back to. 02:35:56
Question one here. 02:35:59
Where we recommend. 02:36:01
At retailers be allowed. 02:36:03
And and you had mentioned Forest Hill commercial including that is an area. So I'm just going back to one where we. 02:36:05
Where you. 02:36:14
Approved to have cannabis. 02:36:15
To be allowed and I think you had mentioned some of these, so to add on. 02:36:17
To. 02:36:22
Umm. 02:36:23
Besides just the industrial area and added a few additional areas I think that would. 02:36:25
Be prudent and. 02:36:30
Exclude the commercial. 02:36:32
Downtown Commercial district. 02:36:34
And then I will if you if if the. 02:36:36
Through the chair, if you don't mind. I I think again, like the the idea behind this was preservation of our downtown area. So 02:36:40
Forest Hill. 02:36:44
And and those commercial areas and they're the even the C1 there are two, two little ones up in that Forest Hill area, there's 02:36:50
another one down by couple down by lighthouse those those areas as well. 02:36:57
So it the the main impetus for this for our recommendation was preserving our downtown. 02:37:03
Yeah. 02:37:11
As you want. 02:37:14
So that would be the downtown would be CD. 02:37:15
Right, correct. 02:37:19
So. 02:37:21
You made a recommended motion, Commissioner Davison, so I need the more the recommendation to clarify it. Please leave it to you 02:37:25
or I'll, I'll try to do my best on that clarifying to include industrial. 02:37:33
And commercial outside of CD? 02:37:41
Umm. 02:37:45
For yeah. 02:37:47
The non retailer, Yeah, OK. And that would be for. 02:37:49
Medical. 02:37:53
Delivery. 02:37:54
No storefront. 02:37:56
For. 02:37:58
Delivery Retail only. 02:37:59
Additional delivery retail only. We'll get the terms for delivery only, Yeah. 02:38:02
All right. 02:38:06
And. 02:38:07
What about the 1000 foot buffer? 02:38:09
That applies. That applies. 02:38:12
OK. 02:38:15
So that was moved by Commissioner Davis and seconded by Commissioner Nuzenski. Does everybody understand the motion? Hmm. 02:38:17
And that would be to allow. 02:38:25
That would be allowed retailers who are involved in only medicinal. 02:38:29
Delivery. 02:38:34
To be in the I zone and all see except CD. 02:38:35
Umm, with consideration of 1000 foot. 02:38:38
Cannabis buffer. 02:38:42
So. 02:38:43
If there's no further discussion. 02:38:44
Commissioner. 02:38:46
Could we cut? Had your hands ready, raised and then Vice Chair Murphy. 02:38:47
If I look at the the 1000 foot buffler buffers. 02:38:53
We're to the point where we're only. 02:38:58
Having one or two people, one or two. 02:39:01
Parcels available even if we included CD. 02:39:04
So it's not like we're eliminating a whole lot. So we're. 02:39:08
And if we. 02:39:12
And I don't know whether that two or three parcels. 02:39:19
In relation to the total number of parcels that are available. So I don't know if that's a percentage, a small percentage or a 02:39:22
large percentage. I don't know if you would know that number off the top of your head. 02:39:27
You know from being clear. 02:39:34
Do you would you like me to please it is it is a small number the the current no and I I that's what I would like to stress on 02:39:38
that the current buffer. 02:39:42
Does cover most of our commercial downtown. 02:39:48
Now. 02:39:52
And and it it does just by just by looking at that, we didn't do any exact numbers, but it does look like you know 85% something, 02:39:53
something large. 02:39:57
But when we think about. 02:40:03
The future, we think about things that could change and so we're just wanting to do this is more of a protective action for the 02:40:05
future. 02:40:08
If I may in the commercial. 02:40:12
Town thank you. 02:40:15
Chair in the commercial. Downtown in the Buffer. 02:40:17
With the buffers, there's. 02:40:20
It looks like 3 parcels that three or four or five parcels out of the entire downtown, so it's not excluding much. 02:40:22
But by opening it up to as you have. 02:40:30
OK. 02:40:34
As you recommended to open it up like to other commercial districts, it does. 02:40:36
Offer quite a bit more. 02:40:42
So we have a motion on, did you have a question Vice Chair Murphy or comment? I I don't remember what's in the ordinance. 02:40:45
Ohh we assuming. 02:40:52
Only one. 02:40:54
Medicinal delivery service or as many as As applied, what do we have any limit on? How many? 02:40:56
We we are going to allow. 02:41:02
Eric, good. Would it be alright if Erica answered that for us please? 02:41:05
Yeah, the ordinance doesn't currently have a limit on the number. 02:41:09
Umm. 02:41:13
That is something that the Council could entertain. 02:41:14
When it reviews these again and provides additional feedback. 02:41:17
Umm. 02:41:21
Would would state law allow us, it could potentially you just again it has to be kind of looked at holistically whether you know 02:41:22
on on the whole your regular your regulatory program has the effect of prohibiting the businesses by being too onerous. 02:41:31
So it's something we kind of have to take a take a look at once we get. 02:41:40
Um, feedback on the direction on, you know, the sites where we'd even they'd even be allowed? 02:41:45
If we take the additional step of then limiting the number, would that be maybe a bit too much? 02:41:51
So it's something that we we would have to assess actually after we kind of get through tonight and get through our 02:41:59
recommendations and see where where things lie. 02:42:03
All right. So is there a desire then, based on Miss Vegas comments, is their desire to limit the number? 02:42:10
Of these things. 02:42:16
Should we? 02:42:19
Pin the motion. Let me ask you this, should we append the motion to? 02:42:21
Consider this a later date. Right there, I don't know. 02:42:26
If I could offer I I think it actually is better to not change your motion. Instead of mix adding additional layers onto the 02:42:30
motion, you've got a discrete motion on the zoning. 02:42:35
See what support it gets and then you can move on and make new motions based off of additional discussion you might have versus 02:42:42
trying to layer 3234 issues into one motion. 02:42:47
OK. 02:42:53
Thank you. 02:42:54
So if there's no further questions then. 02:42:56
Or comments from anybody, Can you, would you please call the roll, Mr. Campbell? 02:42:59
Yes. 02:43:04
And everybody understands the motion. 02:43:05
Hmm. 02:43:07
Alright. 02:43:09
Mr. Davidson. 02:43:12
Aye. 02:43:13
Commissioner Zinski. 02:43:14
Commissioner Kubica. 02:43:17
Aye. 02:43:18
Commissioner Sawyer. 02:43:20
Vice Chair Murphy. 02:43:22
Aye. 02:43:23
Sure, Lily. 02:43:24
Aye. 02:43:26
With six eyes, 0 nays and one absent. 02:43:28
The motion. 02:43:32
To allow. 02:43:34
Medicinal delivery only retail cannabis. 02:43:36
In the eye district and commercial districts, excluding. 02:43:42
The downtown commercial CD district. 02:43:46
It passes. 02:43:48
OK. Thank you. So the motion passes, so we're ready to move on. 02:43:50
Let me go through some of the items that I had. 02:43:54
Pointed out. And I'm going to start with chapter 2392 because that's zoning thing. 02:43:57
And some of these are are observations and. 02:44:03
May. 02:44:07
Be disposed of very quickly. 02:44:08
That's up to the Commission, but. 02:44:11
Let me refer first to. 02:44:13
Chap and the proposed ordinance that Miss Vega put together. 02:44:15
I believe it was SHE 239201 No 010 or 010, purpose and intent. 02:44:19
In subsection, A says and to promote the health, safety, morals and general welfare of the residences and businesses in the city. 02:44:27
And the question I had on that is how does the chapter do that? 02:44:35
Is it appropriate to state that limitations? 02:44:38
To one cannabis retailer. 02:44:41
And there would be storefront retailer. 02:44:44
Is proposed. 02:44:46
That language promotes this subsection. 02:44:47
As found in the there's a number of where as is in in the introduction to the ordinance and it's the 7th 1:00. 02:44:51
That says that. 02:44:58
The, the, the location or the limitation of these things does promote the health and welfare of the the community. That's the 02:45:00
only. 02:45:03
Reason in or or basis in this entire ordinance that would be supportive of that. 02:45:09
That observation and I just wanted. 02:45:16
Commission to to weigh in on that, or at least ask you to consider that. 02:45:18
So. 02:45:24
Any any comments? 02:45:25
I. 02:45:27
I guess I don't think it's necessary I think. 02:45:30
The. 02:45:32
The ordinance is designed to have a rational and reasonable. 02:45:34
Approach so that. 02:45:38
I guess I don't see a need, all right. 02:45:40
Is there any Commissioner Sawyer? 02:45:43
Well. 02:45:46
I really had a problem with how it was going to promote the morals, I mean. 02:45:47
Are we judge and jury? I just, I totally agree with Vice Chair Murphy. I don't think we need that part. 02:45:53
So do we need a? Maybe we should just go through and and. 02:46:01
Can we go through and make an emotion on each one of these or or in total if we? 02:46:06
If we have the same response to a number of these things. Either way, whatever your pleasure is. 02:46:12
You know to go through and make a motion on some of these things may not. 02:46:18
Asked Miss Vega. Miss Vega, do you have any comment or? 02:46:23
So you're not really commenting on substantive provisions, you're this language relates to the sort of the the? 02:46:26
Standard language that we see. 02:46:36
Pertaining to the city zoning and police powers. 02:46:40
Sort of Typically used in almost every local ordinance that gets adopted ordinances. 02:46:42
Are adopted to promote the public. 02:46:48
Health, safety, welfare piece, morals, things like that. 02:46:51
If you disagree with any of it, to be perfectly honest, none of this is legally required and you could just recommend that that 02:46:55
paragraph or that entire section be eliminated from the ordinance if. 02:47:01
And that would probably be a lot quicker than going through word by word and deciding which words you like and which word words 02:47:07
you don't like. 02:47:12
No, we like I mean I I I brought it up because I thought it was appropriate. I don't want to eliminate it. I just wanted. 02:47:17
Concurrence from the Commission, based upon the comments of one of the other Commissioners to me. 02:47:23
That and it was stated, How does this promote that the the morals of the community? 02:47:28
My response to that would be this provision in the. 02:47:34
The resolution the whereas is in the front answers that question. That's all I'm saying. 02:47:37
And I brought it up because it needed to be brought up. 02:47:43
That's all I'm saying, Commissioner Davison. 02:47:46
Can I ask a clarifying question on that? 02:47:48
Is. 02:47:50
Is that statute in there to justify policing in response to the law? 02:47:51
Commissioner, I mean Miss Vega. 02:47:59
So I just want to make sure I'm I'm understanding. Are you referring to the purpose and intent statement in the that was read off 02:48:02
the paragraph? 02:48:06
Yeah, yes, yeah. 02:48:11
So it's it's, you know, there's enforcement provisions that do that. This is sort of a standard, somewhat standard language that's 02:48:13
used in ordinances to when we want to show that we're just show that we were. 02:48:21
At least thinking about the how the ordinance relates to the city's police powers and authority to adopt the regulations. 02:48:30
Which we not only have our general police powers, which are Section 7 of Article 11 of the California Constitution, but there's 02:48:38
also specific statutory authority in the Business and Professions Code that allows the comments. And so it's really just. 02:48:45
Citing to the applicable laws that authorize this ordinance. 02:48:52
OK, so to to that end, are a lot of these kind of within that realm where generally it's what might be more thought of as like 02:48:55
template? 02:48:59
Legal legalese or legal code that. 02:49:04
Yeah, to a certain degree. You know, we typically modify just based off of whatever the subject ordinance is about. And so if you 02:49:07
think that this particular section needs to be beefed up as it were and include a little bit more of an explanation that that's 02:49:12
something that we can do, we can and I don't think we need to have it rewritten from the dyess, but we can take that direction in 02:49:17
and. 02:49:23
Provide more detailed explanation in this section if you think it's appropriate. 02:49:28
OK. Thank you. So how did you all feel about that? I mean, I. 02:49:34
I I think if it's not substantive, if it's not something that will actually change what's happening, then maybe we don't have to 02:49:38
review it. 02:49:40
And so if maybe there's guidance on the the components that are more substantive or if someone has commentary on substantive ones, 02:49:44
maybe we make those changes or discuss those. 02:49:49
OK. 02:49:53
Any other further comment about that? 02:49:54
Hmm. 02:49:56
Umm. 02:50:01
Let me move on then. 02:50:02
2392020 relationship to other laws. 02:50:07
This gets into. 02:50:11
Chapter 11. This This is a This is an issue that we need to to grapple with, I think, to some extent. 02:50:17
Umm. 02:50:24
We have two ordinances here. 02:50:27
And really, the question comes down to. 02:50:29
Do we need 2 ordinances to do this? 02:50:32
And. 02:50:35
There are. 02:50:36
There are sections in each ordinance that are are mirror the other, but they don't and so should they we refer. 02:50:39
Should one ordinance refer to the other by reference only? 02:50:46
Should they be the same because we have differences, for example and definitions in the next one? 02:50:50
And. 02:50:58
Should they be the same where, where, where they're applicable? One of the ordinances which is more operations Orient one is more 02:50:59
zoning ordinance. I understand that. 02:51:04
That difference but. 02:51:08
Perhaps it's just something that needs to be? 02:51:10
Review you know, by staff. I I don't know. 02:51:13
But that I just bring this up because I as I'm going through this stuff and notice these provisions and noticing these these 02:51:16
things. 02:51:20
It came to mind. 02:51:25
About that so. 02:51:27
I'll answer the question of you. Why? Why 2 ordinances? 02:51:30
And and I will say up front that two ordinances is absolutely standard. 02:51:34
OK. If you think about it in terms of your typical applications. 02:51:40
Right you. 02:51:45
You look at uses, not users. 02:51:46
The dual licensing and use permit approach allows the city to both regulate the use. 02:51:50
And the user, so for your standard conditional use permit. 02:51:57
Say you IT you approve a conditional use permit for a medical office. 02:52:02
You may know who who the user is going to be at the time of the application, but once the right to that use vest. 02:52:08
It can change. 02:52:15
And it doesn't come back to the Planning Commission because there's a change in the occupant, the change in the entity that's 02:52:17
running the business as long as the business type is the same and it's what you've approved and it's in compliance with your 02:52:21
conditions of approval. 02:52:26
Having a dual track. 02:52:30
System that has uh. 02:52:33
Renewable license on top of A use permit gives the city the ability to regulate the user. 02:52:35
So now it's not just about the use, it's about the specific business that's operating, the backgrounds of the individuals 02:52:43
operating the business and things like that. 02:52:47
So that is the purpose of having two ordinances, and. 02:52:53
And. 02:52:56
I would not suggest that you combine them. 02:52:57
Unless the city is interested in in having less onerous regulations, if you want, if you're taking more of A. 02:52:59
Less is more deregulation kind of approach and you you think that we just ought to take a free market approach is probably the 02:53:07
best way of putting it, then certainly you could do that. But if your intent is to regulate the users then it's the dual track 02:53:12
ordinances. 02:53:16
All right. 02:53:22
Commissioner Sawyer. 02:53:24
I I understand the premise. 02:53:26
For the the two ordinances it makes sense. 02:53:30
However. 02:53:34
When you're reading one and then you read the other, they don't always match. Is there some way? 02:53:35
So that they're both saying this sort of the same. 02:53:42
Thing when they're talking about the same subject, because that's the problem. 02:53:46
That I'm seeing it's not written so that it makes sense when you compare the two side by side. 02:53:50
That's the part that I'm having a lot of problem with. 02:53:57
I understand that you want to. 02:54:01
Umm. 02:54:04
Legislate the user and the use. That makes perfect sense to me. 02:54:05
However. 02:54:10
Language should match. 02:54:11
I mean, I'm just really having a problem with that. 02:54:14
I'm. 02:54:18
I'm not aware of any specific instances of that, but these are drafts. 02:54:19
Their works in progress, and if you have a list of inconsistencies that you think you've identified, I'm happy to review those 02:54:24
and. 02:54:28
Determine if edits need to be made to either draft to make sure things are consistent across the board. 02:54:33
But sometimes. 02:54:40
Some sometimes things. 02:54:42
Things might be intentionally different, which is the one thing that I I would say to you as well. So and I can always provide an 02:54:44
explanation of why that is, but I would I would need specific examples to look at. 02:54:49
Let let me elaborate on that a little bit. There are and you said the. 02:54:56
Proper words, Miss Vega sometimes. 02:55:00
They need to be intentionally different and and those. 02:55:03
Examples do exist. 02:55:06
There are other examples where. 02:55:08
Definitions, for example. Should they be the same? 02:55:10
You know when you say? 02:55:13
And I I. 02:55:15
Find an example here. 02:55:17
But when we define. 02:55:19
In the. 02:55:23
The situation. 02:55:23
Licensed premises say. 02:55:29
And I'm not sure which if if they are different from each one, but I I would just prefer that. 02:55:31
Where they need to be the same or where they need it needs to be in the ordinance that it's it's it's clear that they're the same. 02:55:38
And I'm not sure that's the case. 02:55:44
This also spills over into. 02:55:47
One of the other two of the other major issues and let me. 02:55:49
Go into that a little bit and that's the. 02:55:54
Who? Who should select the storefront cannabis? 02:55:57
Local licensee. 02:56:03
And how should what is the process for that to be done? Those are major questions. 02:56:05
And some of these other things about well, should the ordinances match, and so on and sore forth. 02:56:10
We probably should defer that and maybe even to the point where. 02:56:17
It's. 02:56:21
Be appropriate to separately offline? 02:56:21
Send you a list and have you review that? 02:56:24
I I don't know what your pleasure is, but that may be the the most practical way to save time. 02:56:27
Because otherwise we sit around here and and and and go around and around and around about definitions and. 02:56:32
Look, try to look things up and do things from the diet that should have been. 02:56:38
Maybe. 02:56:41
We should, we should have heard, done before myself. 02:56:42
But. 02:56:45
If I can move on then. 02:56:47
One of the major questions and this applies. 02:56:50
To both. 02:56:54
Ordinances, but especially. 02:56:56
Chapter 11. 02:56:58
Who should select? 02:56:59
I have it as the third thing in my list. 02:57:00
Who should select the storefront cannabis retail licensee and let me read this as proposed, the selection of a single? 02:57:03
Storefront cannabis retailer wouldn't involve a local 2 step process. 02:57:10
The first one involved the selection of an applicant for a license. 02:57:15
Upon selection as a Licensee. 02:57:19
Our local licensee that the applicant would then proceed to obtain a conditional use permit to operate. 02:57:22
The applicant would then need to obtain a city business license and comply with state licensing. 02:57:28
Umm. 02:57:36
Statutes. 02:57:37
So. 02:57:39
Then then further down in in in #11, the draft ordinance gives the city manager authority to select the licensee. 02:57:41
However, many have suggested that a citizen or stakeholders committee be formed to review applications and select a licensee. That 02:57:49
is a key question. 02:57:53
And the question and then and then it follows. The next question is. 02:57:58
How should a storefront cannabis licensee be selected? 02:58:04
And there are at least a couple of alternatives. There may be more I I'm just going to throw these out. One is. 02:58:08
The use of an object objective set of criteria. 02:58:13
The second is a lottery among the top applicants. 02:58:16
And perhaps eligibility for the lottery could be determined by the use of of objective criteria as well. 02:58:20
And it seems though these, these are the major issues. You know, we've talked about three of them. We've talked about the 02:58:28
storefront. 02:58:31
The. 02:58:35
The additional restrictions that 1000 feet. 02:58:36
The medicinal delivery only, but these two other things are are, are. 02:58:40
Pretty fundamental, I think, to the what we heard at the City Council. 02:58:45
And as I've gone through the. 02:58:49
The license. 02:58:51
Proposed licenses or the proposed ordinances, I should say. 02:58:53
So I I'm interested in hearing what the Commission has to say about I don't know if you want to talk about how first or who. 02:58:57
1st. 02:59:03
What what is your pleasure? But we we need to come to some agreement about that because that potentially one way or the other 02:59:04
could change the way these things are drafted. 02:59:09
That's my comment. 02:59:15
Vice Chair Murphy. 02:59:16
Well, you, you ask. 02:59:18
To you know what? 02:59:19
We thought, and you may not like what we think. Well, no, that no. That's why when I wrote all these things, I wrote them in 02:59:21
questions. I don't know. This is the part that I don't think is up to us. It has nothing to do with land use or or zoning. I know 02:59:26
the process tangentially. 02:59:31
You know, touches the. 02:59:37
Are, you know, Chapter 23, but this is an operational thing that. 02:59:39
You know the the City Council should set policy and the operation how it works is is done by staff and I I just don't think it's 02:59:45
up to us to. 02:59:50
I mean. 02:59:55
You know, we certainly have the right to offer an opinion, but I I just. 02:59:56
Don't feel comfortable doing so. 03:00:00
OK. 03:00:03
That's fine. 03:00:05
Who else wants to make a comment? 03:00:07
Commissioner Sawyer. 03:00:10
I agree. 03:00:12
With Vice Chair Murphy, I just think this is sort of out of our purview. So it's it's. 03:00:13
A subject that I think could certainly be covered by. 03:00:19
The council and the staff, I mean. 03:00:22
Any other comments? I mean the part. 03:00:28
That you touched on that I think. 03:00:31
I'm confused about and. We should have clarity. 03:00:33
The the path to approval of of someone who's gonna operate this this retail. 03:00:36
And as you said, they have a state license, they need a business license, the local license. 03:00:42
Our conditional use permit. 03:00:48
And it's not clear when you read the two ordinances. 03:00:50
When the person. 03:00:54
And picks out our picks out a property. 03:00:56
And you know clearly that that that has to be done by the time. 03:00:59
We give a conditional use permit. 03:01:03
But it's but it's not clear along the way when they. 03:01:06
It seems the way the ordinance is written, when they apply for a license, they do not have to have a property. On the one hand, it 03:01:10
sounds as if they don't have a property. 03:01:15
Picked out. 03:01:19
On the other hand, they supposed to have the signature of the property owner. It's just confusing to me. 03:01:20
Well, that that, that, let me make a comment about that's a valid concern because in the Chapter 11 ordinance. 03:01:26
It states as one of the criteria for review. 03:01:32
By the city manager in the case of the way it's written. 03:01:36
That. 03:01:38
There will be, as you said, the the the property owner will have signed off. Well, how can you require that? 03:01:39
When? 03:01:46
People are also saying the reason why we have this part of the process is so that the applicant doesn't have to go get property. 03:01:48
And and put themselves at risk before they know that they're in really in the hunt. 03:01:54
Yeah. So that may be. 03:01:59
Maybe. 03:02:01
Clarify on that please. 03:02:02
And just just to be perfectly blunt about it, that's just an inconsistency in the drafting. I initially drafted it. 03:02:05
Based off of an the premise that they would have identified a property. 03:02:12
Already. 03:02:19
And then in workshopping the draft and and in multiple rounds of discussion that concern with concern about that approach was 03:02:20
raised. 03:02:24
And I revised the ordinance to allow them to identify a property after the fact. And you you have spotted for me an additional 03:02:28
provision I needed to change. 03:02:33
That I did not catch, So that's why we do drafting in multiple multiple sets of eyes on it and. 03:02:39
And it's something I would certainly have caught in a subsequent revision, but I haven't subsequently revised these in a little 03:02:46
bit of time. 03:02:49
So. 03:02:54
And if I may, which? 03:02:55
After you clean it up, which which way will it work? They will have. 03:02:58
Electrical property based off of the based off of the the previous direction I received and that's not to say that's. 03:03:02
Set in you know stone. It can change. 03:03:08
But based off of the the most recent direction I received, they would identify a property after they received their license. 03:03:13
So essentially they would be vetted. 03:03:21
Do their background checks vetted as an operator that they are the quality that the city is looking for and then they would have a 03:03:24
certain amount of time to then go find a location to put their business. 03:03:30
But doesn't. 03:03:37
Chapter 11 as it's written now. 03:03:38
When they apply for the license. 03:03:41
Don't they have to describe the property and how it's going to be divided inside, et cetera, et cetera? 03:03:43
Correct and and they. 03:03:49
We can look more closely at that. They can provide like kind of rough schematics of what they would intend to do, especially if 03:03:51
they have other locations. 03:03:56
But it wouldn't necessarily be set in stone until they identify a specific location. 03:04:01
So they could get. 03:04:09
Are. 03:04:11
Our cannabis license without identifying or having a specific location. 03:04:12
A license, yes, but not the use permit. 03:04:17
Yeah. OK. Thank you to to further amplify. 03:04:20
Your comment miss Vega section. 03:04:25
Large or capital B1B requires a floor plan designating all interior dimensions, so it's more than just authorization. 03:04:28
Of. 03:04:36
The property owner. There's also this provision. 03:04:37
Says, you know, quote a floor plan designating all interior dimensions, et cetera. 03:04:40
And that's what we're, I mean the comment how can the city require a floor plan for initial local license review? 03:04:46
When other provisions provide. 03:04:51
Time for the applicant to secure. 03:04:54
Property. I think we've beaten that one to death, but I I just wanted to. 03:04:56
And then the well to to your point to to the point of this discussion though I mean it can be done either way. 03:05:02
And if the Commission or the Council? 03:05:08
You know. 03:05:10
Discusses it and decides that it prefers one way versus another. The drafts can be modified to accommodate that as as of right 03:05:11
now, you know you have identified some inconsistencies because it was drafted one way initially, then some changes were made and 03:05:17
it didn't catch all of the edits that needed to be made to the licensing ordinance as a result of revisions I made to the zoning 03:05:23
ordinance and that's on me. I can accept that. 03:05:28
No, but but if you disagree. 03:05:35
And you think that they should be required to have a location at the licensing stage, then that's a fair comment and and that's a 03:05:38
recommendation that you could choose to make. 03:05:42
Let me make the comment that. 03:05:49
I I think it needs to be, I think the City Council. 03:05:51
Rather made it clear, but if we were to include this. 03:05:55
Provision. 03:05:59
In the the ordinance and the and the the Chapter 11 ordinance then there there's no need for they're doing the use permit and then 03:06:00
it's it's an illegal action. I well, I don't know if it's illegal action but it's certainly not. 03:06:06
In concert with our Co where the Planning Commission issues user reviews and issues. 03:06:12
Use permits. 03:06:17
So. 03:06:18
You know. 03:06:20
There there may be some legal issues there I don't know, but I I just, I just think we we continue to keep that out of the 03:06:21
ordinance. So that or you change. 03:06:26
Chapter 11 As you You said you You might or you would, but. 03:06:32
I don't know if the the Commission feels that we need to take a stand on that issue, but. 03:06:36
You know, that's up to you, but. 03:06:41
So you're you're you're suggesting that the application. 03:06:43
And be without a specific property, just just focus on the. 03:06:47
The licensee, we need to say that maybe we should say that because that that's the whole thing. You know, where where there's 03:06:51
supposed to be a division of responsibility and authority between these two ordinances is, is Miss Vega pointed out the users, you 03:06:58
know, she said if you want to go to the less regulatory approach, the lazy, fair approach, so to speak. 03:07:04
Then combine them into one. Well, we keep them AS2, but then we need to make sure that they're properly divided. 03:07:11
So there there's. 03:07:18
Division, authority or division of responsibility there. 03:07:20
That's that's my point. 03:07:23
Like sure. Murphy. Miss Vega, if. 03:07:27
If we went in that direction and asked for the application. 03:07:30
To be you know, without, without a profit or property mentioned. 03:07:34
The part of Chapter 11. 03:07:40
That talks about. 03:07:43
Umm. 03:07:45
Again the the physical property. 03:07:46
That would disappear from Chapter 11, and all of that kind of material would be in chapter 23 is. That's maybe an 03:07:49
oversimplification simplification, but I think you know what I mean. 03:07:54
Yes, I think I do understand what you're trying to get at. Yes, and and yeah, if. 03:08:00
If we receive the direction. 03:08:05
To defer. 03:08:08
And he thinks that's location specific to the use permit phase, then yes, that would be the case. Anything location specific would 03:08:10
be a part of the use permit as opposed to the licensing phase. 03:08:16
And would you would what? 03:08:22
Would you advise this on the wisdom of? 03:08:24
Doing it that way, it is one way better than the other in your in your mind. 03:08:26
I would say they have pros and cons. I've I've worked with jurisdictions that do it both both ways. 03:08:31
And and in jurisdictions that. 03:08:37
Require the location to be. 03:08:41
Identified up front. 03:08:44
It has in the past created a bit of a. 03:08:47
Frenzy to secure a location. Also it requires a business to, you know, undertake some sometimes pretty significant financial 03:08:50
obligations before they even received a license. 03:08:58
In terms of signing a lease or a letter of intent that they've had to pay a good amount of money to get to secure a right to a 03:09:06
location. 03:09:10
And so if you're looking to. 03:09:14
You know, maybe expand? 03:09:18
The number of potential applicants? The applicant pool. 03:09:20
It could be beneficial to defer that to a later phase to. 03:09:25
Eliminate some cost burden. 03:09:30
And competitiveness in the real estate market, though? 03:09:32
Especially in a situation where you you're only allowing 1 storefront business. 03:09:36
Which increases the competition to begin with. 03:09:42
Given what Miss Vegas said. 03:09:46
I think I'm prepared to suggest that we. 03:09:48
Remove. 03:09:52
Or defer the location decision, take that out of the licensing. 03:09:53
Chapter and put it all of. 03:09:57
The geography stuff in in. 03:10:00
In chapter 23. 03:10:02
OK. 03:10:04
You you want to make a motion to that effect. 03:10:05
I don't know the right way to say it, but. 03:10:08
Let me. 03:10:12
I think the way you said it works for me, I I understand that direction. 03:10:12
Yeah. 03:10:18
And just staff. Does that make sense to staff? 03:10:19
And do you have? 03:10:22
Any reaction or comments? Or do you? 03:10:24
One way or the other. 03:10:26
Through the chair I I actually, I I I like the way that Erica. 03:10:30
Explained the two different ordinances, one as. 03:10:35
A user and and one is a use. 03:10:39
And I think that taking out those. 03:10:43
It clarifies a little bit more, it seems to. 03:10:46
So the motion then would be somewhere along the lines that during the application process. 03:10:50
Applicant would not specify a specific. 03:10:56
Property. 03:10:59
And. 03:11:01
All of the property related. 03:11:03
A material that's currently in. 03:11:06
Chapter 11. 03:11:09
Would be moved as appropriately into. 03:11:10
Into chapter 23. 03:11:13
Is that? 03:11:16
Does that make sense? 03:11:19
The, if I may, the difficult part for the the zoning aspect of it would be in our review. 03:11:21
Umm. 03:11:28
Without an objective standard. 03:11:29
Like it mentions the floor plans and making sure that it looks a certain way. 03:11:32
And all of that would be in. 03:11:39
Title Chapter 23, so that that's difficult I think. 03:11:40
Or chapter 23 because. 03:11:45
Unless so, I think the the idea, I don't know if you've seen some of the pictures that were shown. 03:11:48
I don't know if it was Eric as they wanted somebody. There was one that was showing, Hey, these designer. 03:11:55
Cannabis retail shops, if they look like XY and Z and in that I think that was part of the the business licensing to vet the the 03:12:03
user the license like if they had other other stores. So this is the type of store that you would get. 03:12:11
To put that into zoning, you would. 03:12:19
It seems like there would be an an error. Could correct me if I'm wrong, but if we throw it into zoning, we just need some 03:12:22
objective standards by which to to to be guided. 03:12:27
So when they're looking at the user, like say it's. 03:12:34
You know. 03:12:38
ABC Pothouse versus, you know, King City. I don't know anything you know, one might have. 03:12:40
A a different reputation or it might have something that that when you're when you're judging on the license. 03:12:48
And the person who's getting. 03:12:53
It's not something that I personally would want to make a call on unless I had very specific standards. 03:12:55
To do that, they they could do that. 03:13:03
They could do that, I believe, without reference to a specific property. 03:13:07
Yes. And they wouldn't, that wouldn't, you know, Yes, yes, absolutely, absolutely. Yes. Well, that gets into qualifications. Yeah 03:13:12
And and but. 03:13:16
When we look at use permit applications, architectural permit applications on on appeal and all that, we're looking at drawings, 03:13:21
we're looking at all of that. 03:13:25
And that's all I'm saying is that. 03:13:30
So for the. 03:13:32
That become part and parcel of the licensing process. 03:13:34
Before it ever gets to the use permit. It's contradictory. So what? Why? Why have a use permit process? Then? It's it's all one. 03:13:38
So that that makes no sense. 03:13:45
If you're gonna have two separate ordinances. 03:13:48
Then you can talk about. 03:13:50
The the so-called drawings. This written in here is as as samples of what they've done before is their qualifications. 03:13:53
But in terms of the actual location, you can't possibly. 03:14:00
Describe in drawings a location without the property exists. I believe it looks like Erica one. Yeah. So I think what we want to 03:14:04
distinguish between here would probably be the interior and the exterior. So from the the use permit standpoint, you know this is 03:14:11
a a retail use that's going to be coming in and you would apply the standards that apply in the applicable zone to a retail use 03:14:19
that would apply to any other business unless you have cannabis, anything cannabis business specific. 03:14:26
That you decide to include in these ordinances. 03:14:34
On the exterior in terms of the design and whatnot. 03:14:37
What we're looking at on the licensing side would kind of sort of be like the interior design spec level, you know versus the, so 03:14:41
it looks a little bit. 03:14:46
I don't want to say that there's any specific kind of guidance I've been given because I haven't, but I think that is a factor 03:14:53
that. 03:14:57
We would want to look at. 03:15:02
In terms of selecting the storefront retailer. 03:15:03
What are what are they proposing in terms of? 03:15:08
Interior space, how is that, how is that going to look And so that's but interior design is not something that the Planning 03:15:11
Commission would normally look at. You know you're, you're looking at the the, the exterior of the building and how it relates to 03:15:18
the broader neighborhood and the and and impacts on the community at large not you know. 03:15:25
What building materials they decide to use on the interior and you know, fabrics and wood types and things like that. 03:15:33
If I can, and if we can get back to your motion, it sounds as though your. 03:15:46
Recommending that the location. 03:15:52
Not be obtained prior. 03:15:56
To licensing, right. Correct. So so and and after that whatever logical. 03:15:58
Once you accept that as a premise. 03:16:06
You take a close look at Chapter 11. 03:16:08
And remove the unnecessary parts. 03:16:11
And decide what among those is necessary. 03:16:14
To put into. 03:16:18
Chapter 23. 03:16:19
How would we put that in one motion, Erica? 03:16:22
I think. 03:16:27
Uh. 03:16:29
I mean I I understand. I feel like I understand what what the the motion is and and I guess if I just rephrase my understanding 03:16:30
maybe that would help is that? 03:16:35
Implement the direction. 03:16:42
That a licensee not have to identify a location. 03:16:44
Until after they've been granted a license. 03:16:49
By removing any provisions. 03:16:53
In. 03:16:56
Title 11. 03:16:58
That. 03:17:01
Would be inconsistent with. 03:17:01
That direction. 03:17:04
And after doing that. 03:17:08
If they're. 03:17:10
Parts that are left aside that don't fit in chapter. 03:17:12
11. 03:17:16
If appropriate, put them in chapter 23 so they're not lost entirely. 03:17:17
OK, I I'm struggling to think of an example of that, but I I understand what you're getting at, yes. 03:17:25
OK. 03:17:31
You Satisfying? Yes. OK. Was there a second to that I've forgotten? 03:17:32
I'll second Commissioner Cinci, OK? 03:17:37
So we have a motion on the floor to. 03:17:40
Change language in Chapter 11 proposed Chapter 11. 03:17:43
To remove the requirement of. 03:17:48
The selection of a site. 03:17:52
And anything related to that? 03:17:55
You got help, help have to help me hear anything related to that to that. 03:17:59
Removed from title 11. 03:18:06
And and put into 23 where where necessary 23 OK. 03:18:09
And that was seconded by. 03:18:13
Commissioner Nuzenski. 03:18:16
Alright, is there any further discussion to this? 03:18:18
OK, if not please. 03:18:21
Fishers. 03:18:24
Chair Lily Is this for the retail or is this for the? 03:18:26
Retail, Retail, OK. And there'll be a separate or a set of ordinances for the. 03:18:30
Well. 03:18:39
Erica. 03:18:40
Would be the best. 03:18:41
The way I read the ordinances though, they're mainly about. 03:18:43
The retail and not the, I mean the the storefront retail and. 03:18:48
And we give them the short shrift, so to speak, of, of the. I mean, we really even thoroughly address the. 03:18:53
The medicinal only locations, I mean in terms of use, permits or. 03:19:00
You know how does that? 03:19:04
So I was. I mean, do they have to get a use permit for that or what? 03:19:05
Says we should be able to allow my guess so. 03:19:10
These ordinances essentially incorporate, I would say, bare bones provisions with respect to the delivery only because of one of 03:19:15
the questions and points of direction I was looking for from the Council. 03:19:21
Was on the question of you know whether. 03:19:29
And how the city wants to regulate delivery only because we we don't really have that from your measure M. 03:19:33
So. 03:19:39
Caps on the number of businesses, Do you want to do a competitive process for for these businesses or do we want to just say, you 03:19:40
know, state law says what it says and so? 03:19:46
Will allow them in certain zones subject to our. 03:19:52
Have. 03:19:55
Separation requirements and call it that. And I I haven't gotten clear direction on that specific subject yet, so these ordinances 03:19:57
are still in a state of flux on that issue. 03:20:03
So would it be fair to say then would what does this relate? 03:20:12
Vice Chair Murphy, do you to. 03:20:16
The storefront only does your mission. 03:20:19
Or does it? Is it both or should we? 03:20:21
Perfect. 03:20:24
And maybe maybe again it goes back to separately taking up the issue of the medicinal only delivery thing and and maybe helping 03:20:27
you out with some direction that way beyond what we have. I don't know, I mean but. 03:20:34
I I guess what I'm suggesting you know not having the ownership as part of the application. 03:20:41
Could work for both the storefront. 03:20:47
And the pedestal delivery? 03:20:50
And probably the municipal delivery, there's no impact on the Title 23 by doing that for municipal delivery probably. 03:20:52
If that makes sense. 03:21:04
May make a suggestion, I think, for streamlining purposes and to try to stay on the right side of the new state law. 03:21:07
I would actually suggest that you you treat them pretty much the same. 03:21:17
With the dual track licensing and use permit with the differences being you know the zones where they're allowed, but otherwise 03:21:23
treat them fairly similarly. 03:21:28
Or as similarly as possible with the exception. 03:21:33
Of the one business cap. 03:21:36
Not have that applied to the delivery only medicinal businesses. 03:21:39
And that way I just from an internal administrative standpoint. 03:21:43
Creating different systems. 03:21:48
For one category of cannabis business and and then another, it just creates a lot of confusion and I think increases the the 03:21:50
likelihood for mistakes to be made so the more similar we can keep. 03:21:56
Keep the regulations across the board, the better in my view from an administrative standpoint. 03:22:01
So for the sake of clarification, it will include both. 03:22:06
Both kinds if. 03:22:10
The seconder is OK, and that's permissible. With the seconder, that's fine. Alright. So is there any further discussion about this 03:22:12
matter? 03:22:16
Sorry. 03:22:21
Vice Commissioner Kubiak so. 03:22:22
Did we? 03:22:26
In the earlier motion, we used the term medical marijuana. 03:22:28
When we were talking about zoning, does that affect the way this ordinance then is written? 03:22:33
And the minute, well, medicinal medical like is, I don't know if that's one and the same. 03:22:39
OK. 03:22:49
Thank you. 03:22:51
All right. 03:22:53
Can we call the roll in please? 03:22:54
Aye. 03:23:02
Just let me redo that, I my advice chair Murphy. 03:23:03
Right. 03:23:06
Commissioner Nijinsky. 03:23:09
Commissioner Sawyer. 03:23:13
Commissioner Davison. 03:23:15
Aye, Commissioner Kubica. 03:23:17
Aye. 03:23:18
Sure, Lily. 03:23:19
Aye. 03:23:21
With six eyes, 0 nays and one absent. 03:23:22
The motion. 03:23:30
To uh. 03:23:31
Remove the need for a licensee to obtain a location prior. 03:23:36
Or the applicant to retain the. 03:23:42
Location prior to the license. 03:23:45
Be removed from Title 11 and where necessary, anything relating to the physical property moved to Title 23. 03:23:47
OK. 03:23:57
Let me let me bring up one other this. This falls into Miss Vegas definition of or or comment about. 03:23:58
Possible conflicts that. 03:24:06
Have come up in section 11. 03:24:09
Point 100.210. 03:24:11
Under enforcement, suspension, and revocation of license. 03:24:14
This chapter gives the city staff enforcement powers over violations of the proposed ordinance and other municipal codes, which 03:24:18
is, in my opinion, fine. 03:24:22
Should the city manager have the ability to suspend or revoke a cannabis business license, so is that. 03:24:28
Business license or I, I I mean, I think we need to make sure there's clarification there. 03:24:34
It's one thing to what you know as a. 03:24:41
Discussed above, I have in my. 03:24:44
Comments here What is the definition of a license? 03:24:47
Uh. 03:24:51
And then the license. The license is the license under Chapter 11. 03:24:53
And then the use permit is the use permit under chapter 23 and both have revocation provisions that are independent of each other. 03:24:57
OK so so the this then would only apply to the person or persons selecting. 03:25:06
The. 03:25:12
The the licensee. 03:25:15
Correct. 03:25:17
Processed in #11, so this has nothing to do with. 03:25:18
The use permit or anything like that. 03:25:22
Correct. 03:25:24
OK. 03:25:25
So that's really. 03:25:26
That can be handled as as a as a question with an answer. So I don't know that we need a motion for that because that's I think 03:25:27
that's pretty clear. That was a a question though, Commissioner Sawyer. 03:25:32
I just had a quick question about 11:00. 03:25:37
100.21 OB. 03:25:40
It refers to the PG municipal code. It's about any violations of this chapter. 03:25:43
When I read it, it was confusing, but yet when I read the PG municipal code it was clear. Is there a way to? 03:25:50
Make the language more similar to. 03:25:58
The 1.16 PG municipal code because it's super clear. 03:26:02
This. 03:26:07
BE is not as clear. 03:26:08
I can. 03:26:13
I can take. 03:26:14
I can take a look at that. Sorry I wasn't sure if I was muted or not. 03:26:16
Take a look at that and see if there's improvements to the language that that can be made for clarity. 03:26:20
Thank you. Because I was just thinking if we could make things sort of swim along together that we already have, it would be 03:26:26
helpful. Thank you. 03:26:30
OK. 03:26:35
The only other thing I had on here. 03:26:37
Is. 03:26:41
We talked about The Who and the how. 03:26:43
If they want, if the City Council. 03:26:46
If it's a pleasure of this Commission. 03:26:48
In terms of who and how. 03:26:50
You want to leave that to the City Council? I think I heard that from. 03:26:52
A couple of members. 03:26:56
I don't know how you all feel. I know I had a. 03:26:58
Conversation with one member about the selection process. Not in violation of the Brown Act either, but. 03:27:01
About how? 03:27:08
How that would go about because there was some discussion at the City Council level about lotteries. 03:27:12
And there's some discussion about. 03:27:17
Objective criteria, whatever those would be. 03:27:20
That, that we may want to at least briefly touch on that at least to give. 03:27:24
The Council some indication of of of. 03:27:28
What their alternatives might be? 03:27:32
And I'm looking at. 03:27:34
Commissioner Zinski, who just raised his hand, so we want to address that. 03:27:36
Thank you, Chair. Lily, I do have a question. 03:27:41
From Miss Vega. 03:27:45
Say for example we use, say for example. It's easier for me to explain this by using an example. 03:27:47
Umm. 03:27:53
And. 03:27:54
Have you ever heard of weighted lotteries as being a selection process? For example? OK, so OK. 03:27:55
So then, for the benefit of everybody, she checked, and for those of you didn't see that, she shook her head yes. 03:28:01
And so just so. 03:28:08
I'm sure most of you know, but I'm just going to explain it for the for the recording. 03:28:10
Say there's three candidates, and, and for some objective criteria you identified candidates as 1-2 and three and instead of just 03:28:14
using a lottery that would be random and then in other words each one getting 1/3 probability of being selected. 03:28:21
You could use a weighted lottery. In other words, if you think candidate won is far superior to the other two candidates, you 03:28:28
could change the weights. So say for example, you changed it to. Instead of having one out of three, you had six opportunities to 03:28:32
win. 03:28:37
Or you had a roll of the die so candidate one would get if the roll of the die ended up being 1-2 or three. 03:28:42
Candidate one would win if candidate if if the role of the dye turned up four and A5. 03:28:49
Candidate two would win, and if it rolled up a 6th, candidate three would win. So you basically changed the probabilities of the 03:28:53
people winning. 03:28:57
And the purpose of this is because sometimes if if you've ever been on a hiring committee. 03:29:01
You usually find a candidate and you don't do them by lottery. You actually make a selection and and your objective evidence and 03:29:07
your objective criteria doesn't always come to fruition and sometimes you didn't do the right hiring situation. But in this case 03:29:12
we might be similar. I don't know how good. 03:29:17
Objective criteria can be, but if we do have objective criteria and we feel strongly about it and we still want to like kind of 03:29:22
like cover our bases with a lottery. 03:29:26
A weighted lottery might be a way. That might be a suggested that you know the City Council might want to consider. 03:29:30
And again, you could also change these probabilities. You could there's an infinite amount of probabilities you could do this. You 03:29:36
could, you could change it to 100. 03:29:40
You know. 03:29:45
Ping pong balls. And then you could change. You know candidate one can have 50% chance and and then candidate two could have 10% 03:29:46
chance and you know and so on and so forth. 03:29:50
So basically it's a weighted lottery and again that's something that you could just write into the code and I just want to explain 03:29:55
that for everybody. So and again if miss Vega, if you want to elaborate, have you heard of such a, you know, you know, like in 03:29:59
other types of situations like this? 03:30:03
Yeah, I I have heard of weighted lotteries. 03:30:10
And so that is something that. 03:30:14
Can be implemented there. Another option is to you know, have a lottery but instead of having objective. 03:30:16
Criteria where it's you know you meet everything in the checklist, therefore you make it in the lottery. The alternative to that 03:30:25
is is. 03:30:28
You know it's a. 03:30:34
Subjective process. They get scored and you have to meet a certain score. 03:30:35
To make it into the lottery. So once you're in the lottery. 03:30:40
It's not weighted, but. 03:30:44
You do have to. 03:30:47
Make a certain score to even make it into the lottery. 03:30:49
And then the another option is a weight, a weighted lottery and. 03:30:52
I I have seen cities do that. I haven't implemented that personally myself in any of the cities I work with, but I've seen it done 03:30:58
in other cities. 03:31:02
Umm. 03:31:06
Where based off of your score you essentially if you think about it in terms of like a you know the the little ping pong balls and 03:31:07
the wheel. You you get more ping pong balls in the the wheel to pick from based off of your score. 03:31:13
So there's there's there's lots of variations on the process that you can that you can do. 03:31:19
You seen anyone? 03:31:25
Approach more more use more often. 03:31:28
You know, I haven't, I haven't done a thorough review. 03:31:33
To be able to actually render an opinion on that I I've seen them all is I guess probably the best way to put it, but I couldn't 03:31:38
say it, you know. 03:31:42
Statewide. However, how? 03:31:46
However, many jurisdictions use one versus the other and and say which is more popular. I just haven't done that kind of deep dive 03:31:48
into the. 03:31:52
Statistics I guess. 03:31:55
OK. 03:31:59
Alright. 03:32:00
So. 03:32:01
That probably. 03:32:03
Takes us a little bit at least into the how. 03:32:04
And. 03:32:07
Perhaps that can be? 03:32:09
Forward to the City Council for their consideration that there there's several options from. 03:32:10
One third, one third, one third lottery. If there's 32 the weighted lottery to some of the options that. 03:32:16
As Vegas talked about. 03:32:23
Is there anything else on this that we need to address or discuss on this cannabis issue that we want to tell the City Council? 03:32:26
I I was just going to remind staff and I'm sure you would have thought of it, but. 03:32:34
Table 2331. 03:32:39
03 O. 03:32:42
The commercial zone use table. 03:32:44
Will have to be amended to. 03:32:46
At Cannabis. 03:32:49
Jerry Lewis. 03:32:57
Commissioner. 03:32:59
Could we come? 03:33:00
So. 03:33:02
Does this mean the ordinances will be rewritten and come back to us? 03:33:03
I'm not sure. 03:33:09
I. 03:33:10
So the zoning ordinance definitely has to come back to you for a formal recommendation to the City Council. 03:33:13
And. 03:33:20
But I. 03:33:21
Would defer to staff as to whether they would intend to bring back the licensing ordinance, because that's not legally required to 03:33:23
go to you. 03:33:26
Commissioner Sawyer. 03:33:33
I would like to just ask a. 03:33:37
Question because I don't know the answer and it's doesn't really pertain to zoning, but. 03:33:40
When you ride an 11. 03:33:47
100.23 O consumption of cannabis. 03:33:50
Is and it says that consumption and use of edibles shall be prohibited. Is that. 03:33:54
I just wanted to know, is that enforceable? Is that what the law says? I just wasn't sure where that came from. 03:34:01
Sorry, just scrolling to the appropriate section. You said 11102 three O consumption cannabis. Yes. So that's about consumption in 03:34:12
public places. 03:34:17
And that's reflected in state law. 03:34:22
OK, so canvas has been decriminalized, but it's still illegal to consume it in public places. 03:34:25
OK. 03:34:31
So, so we want to also include that in your ordinance, even though it duplicates state law. 03:34:32
Because then it's enforceable by a citation under your municipal code. 03:34:37
All right. Thank you. I just was very curious about that. I was like, how do you enforce that? How do you know what they're 03:34:42
chewing on? 03:34:45
Thank you. 03:34:49
And I don't know if. 03:34:50
This question is for you, Miss Vega or Mr. Burke. 03:34:52
And. 03:34:55
You know, several members of the publics mentioned possession and distribution. 03:34:56
Of marijuana cannabis products is is illegal under federal law. 03:35:01
And watching what has happened. 03:35:06
Over the last 10 to 15 years, it seems to me that depending on who's in the White House. 03:35:09
The likelihood of the federal. 03:35:14
Authorities trying to intervene at the local level is. 03:35:17
You know, more or less likely, but we're asking businesses. We're telling them it's OK to do it here. 03:35:20
We're charging them fees, so we're taking a healthy tax bite out of them. 03:35:26
Right if the federal if they fall afoul of federal law. 03:35:32
We were saying, oh, you know, up to you to defend yourselves. We're not gonna. 03:35:36
We're not gonna help. We're not gonna pay for that night. 03:35:40
I guess I understand that from the cities. 03:35:43
Point of view, but. 03:35:45
It it doesn't seem fair to the business owner, we've said come into our city, you know, operate. 03:35:46
And and now you're falling. 03:35:52
You know the feds are going after you, so we we kind of abandon you and it. 03:35:55
And I know it's probably smart for the city. 03:35:59
But it it doesn't seem fair to me to the business person and I wonder if. 03:36:02
I'm incredibly naive for. 03:36:06
Or I'm talking about hypotheticals that are are never going to happen. 03:36:09
Well, it's impossible to predict the future. You're right that it does seem to be a matter of who is. 03:36:13
In the White House and what their attitude is. 03:36:22
And in terms of enforcement of federal. 03:36:25
Drug laws, but a business which would come into the city would be aware of the. 03:36:28
Risks with respect to the federal government. So it's not that the city is. 03:36:37
You know, making representations that. 03:36:42
Are inaccurate. The state law legalizes. 03:36:45
The the sale of of cannabis. 03:36:51
For personal use. 03:36:56
So the city is acting consistent with state law as are. 03:36:58
Many other cities in the in the state. So I think the best answer I can give you is that. 03:37:03
The business owner would be. 03:37:09
You know, taking a risk that there could eventually be some type of federal enforcement. 03:37:11
Thank you. 03:37:18
That raises the question, Mr. Puritan, do we need to have an indemnification? 03:37:20
Clause in our. 03:37:25
Review process to hold the city harmless. 03:37:26
Ohh. And in the event of that, although that that probably goes against the Fairness Doctrine that. 03:37:30
Vice Chair Murphy. 03:37:36
Stated. I mean, I understand that, but. 03:37:38
Would we need to do that or is that? 03:37:41
Implicit in all this or. 03:37:44
How do we handle that? 03:37:46
I'm going to patch that one on to Erica. 03:37:47
It's already included. 03:37:50
If you look at section 11.100, point 190, paragraph A, there is a requirement that that whole section pertains to limitations on 03:37:52
the city's liability, and paragraph A specifically requires indemnification. 03:37:58
The one that yeah, there's. 03:38:08
OK. 03:38:13
Alright, that's fine. 03:38:14
So at this point then, we'll look forward to getting back at a future date, the redrafting of the Chapter 2032. 03:38:16
2020 Getting the numbers all filled up. 03:38:26
23 people. 03:38:31
Who I was, you know, 23.92 provisions and we'll go from there. 03:38:32
So does that conclude this? 03:38:38
Item in the agenda. 03:38:40
And and you're saying we do not want to see? 03:38:42
Chapter 11. 03:38:46
And then we don't see Chapter 11 beyond what we've said. 03:38:47
Quick question. 03:38:52
Do we push into that? Do we do we need a motion to that? 03:38:54
No. 03:38:59
Well, I think we've heard what you've said. 03:39:00
And let me just. 03:39:03
Say that I found that the discussion tonight by the Commission was very constructive and and the direction is very clear, so I 03:39:04
think that would be very helpful for the Council to get to get this input that you provided. 03:39:11
Thank you. 03:39:19
Commissioner Sawyer. 03:39:21
If I wanted to send a few comments to Miss Vega and what I found when I went through 11 just to help. 03:39:22
Make things more. 03:39:31
The same. How would I? 03:39:34
Address something to her as far as like an e-mail. 03:39:36
Here. 03:39:40
We can provide you with her e-mail address. 03:39:41
You can. 03:39:44
Sure. 03:39:45
OK. Or if it's easier, you can just send it to to Aaron Campbell and he can forward it to me as well, since I'm sure you already 03:39:46
have his e-mail address. 03:39:50
OK. 03:39:55
Yeah, because I I just have a number of comments and I didn't want to spend a lot of time. 03:39:56
Going ABC. 03:40:02
Thank you. 03:40:04
OK, we now come to item 9A, housing element. 03:40:08
So, so we can expect to get this before the end of the year then do you have a, is there a timeline that we could expect that from 03:40:13
that? 03:40:17
Revision to. 03:40:23
Chapter 2392. 03:40:24
Erica, do you have a time estimate? 03:40:28
Sorry, my mute button was sticking. I I would want to talk with staff just to make sure. I mean certainly it's going to take me a 03:40:33
little bit of time to revise the ordinances, but then we also want to make sure things are meshing with whatever is coming up on 03:40:40
the Commission's calendar. But I think the goal would be definitely before the end of the year because the new state law goes into 03:40:48
effect on January one that regarding the medicinal delivery only businesses. So I can definitely say I would be able to. 03:40:55
Something ready for you before the end of the year, but I would need to talk with staff about specific timing. 03:41:04
When we meet in September, October and November and December and the second Tuesday of the month or Thursday of the month. So I 03:41:10
guess you take your choice, so. 03:41:14
So that we can get that in time because that law does, as you said become effective on January 1st. 03:41:19
All right. Is that if that concludes that? Thank you for your help. 03:41:27
Mr. Perry and Miss Vega. 03:41:32
Umm. 03:41:34
We now come to 9A. 03:41:35
Director White has patiently sat through all of this and housing element in general. Plan updates. 03:41:38
We do. We have a report on this agenda item from Director Wyatt. Welcome. 03:41:45
Cheryl Lilly and members of the Commission, thank you. 03:41:51
For your. 03:41:56
Thoughts on this housing element update and general plan as? 03:41:58
And. 03:42:04
Council Member Coletti mentioned earlier the. 03:42:05
City Council did approve at the August 2nd meeting. 03:42:09
An agreement with Ring Hong Consultants to complete. 03:42:13
The rezoning. 03:42:17
Some objective design standards. 03:42:19
And a sequel review for the Phase One of the Focus General Plan update to help us be compliant with the state requirements. 03:42:22
Uh, that are being triggered by our housing element and the number of units that we need to plan for. 03:42:32
We have, I'm happy to announce a received a draft housing element from our consultant. This is an administrative draft, so 03:42:39
internally we are reviewing with our consultant. 03:42:46
And it is quite extensive, so there's a lot for us to review and I have spent many nights this week. 03:42:53
Up late reviewing it and. 03:43:01
And it's looking. 03:43:03
Very good. So just an FYI there's it's exciting and and. 03:43:05
We're moving forward with that, so. 03:43:11
That is my update for now and if you have any questions I'm happy to answer them. 03:43:14
I'll defer the questions until after public comment and then we can do that as part of our discussion. 03:43:19
So at this point I'll open the proceedings to public comment, Mr. 03:43:24
Campbell And so do we have any comments from the public either? 03:43:29
In the audience or on zoom? 03:43:35
Being very diligent in this process and I commend them on that. 03:44:15
And I urge you to move forward with this housing element. I noted that. 03:44:19
Some constituents express concerns about local control and the best way to retain local control, which I agree is important. 03:44:24
The best way to do that is to move forward with the housing elements and make the solutions for your housing yourselves. 03:44:30
Rather than leaving it to the state to do so. So please do proceed. Thank you. 03:44:37
Thank you. 03:44:42
We have the stores online if there's no one else in person. 03:44:52
Hello, good evening. 03:45:01
Can you hear me? 03:45:04
Please proceed. 03:45:09
You, you, you may speak. Can you hear me? 03:45:14
Yes. 03:45:18
Good evening. My name is Jose Torres. I'm housing advocate for Land Watch Monterey County, and I just have a. 03:45:20
Quick suggestion, request a suggestion how you want to take it. 03:45:28
4. 03:45:33
For acquiring the site inventory earlier than the public draft of. I know that the public draft will be available sometime in 03:45:35
September. 03:45:40
And we'd like to request. 03:45:45
To be able to see the site inventory portion of the draft. 03:45:48
If it's possibly available. 03:45:51
Earlier than than the public publication of the traffic. 03:45:55
It would really help. 03:45:58
Because going through that site inventory does take time and it's it's a very big part of of the housing element. 03:46:00
The city of Monterey. 03:46:08
And the County of Monterey, where? 03:46:10
Both in that position and they both provided their site inventory earlier. 03:46:12
So just a suggestion it would. 03:46:16
Provide. 03:46:19
A lot of information. 03:46:20
And it would help the process for reviewing the element. 03:46:23
The housing element when it does come out. 03:46:27
Thank you very much. 03:46:30
Thank you. 03:46:33
Jane Haynes welcome. 03:46:37
Good evening. 03:46:42
Before I comment on this, I just want to say I'm very happy too about the progress of the story poll committee and I think. 03:46:44
Claudia for. 03:46:54
Umm. 03:46:56
Doing that. 03:46:58
I I was very puzzled by the 1st. 03:47:00
Comment. 03:47:03
Umm. 03:47:04
The saying that we had had so many meetings if you look on the. 03:47:05
On the website. 03:47:11
The Pacific Grove Housing Element website. 03:47:13
There there are no meetings listed. 03:47:17
In 2023. 03:47:20
The nine meetings? None. 03:47:22
Occurred in 2023. 03:47:24
Umm. 03:47:27
And. 03:47:28
I read this. 03:47:29
I I studied this progress report. 03:47:31
And and I I just don't understand it. 03:47:36
It says for example task one work completed, states Internal Rincon Review of draft housing element chapters Task complete. 03:47:39
Well. 03:47:49
I don't know what housing element they're talking about. 03:47:50
Umm. 03:47:53
Before. 03:47:54
Baird and Driscoll left. 03:47:56
They umm. 03:47:58
Provided 7 chapters of the housing element. 03:48:00
And so are they talking about Barrett, what Baird and Driscoll did, or are they talking about something completely different? I I 03:48:04
I just don't understand it. 03:48:09
It says. 03:48:15
On this it says. 03:48:17
Task three work completed, Drafted Community Engagement Summary. 03:48:19
City staff attended National Night Night Out and conducted research. 03:48:24
On. 03:48:30
S1. 03:48:33
Well, National Night Out was a 2 hour event. 03:48:34
And Caledonia Park. 03:48:38
That was attended primarily by members of the Police Department. 03:48:40
Is that the extent of SCD staff housing element? 03:48:44
Research. 03:48:49
Umm. 03:48:51
As I. 03:48:52
Forward you forwarded you a response public records response yesterday. 03:48:54
I made three public records requests. 03:49:01
And the city turned them all down. 03:49:04
Umm. 03:49:07
Now I this afternoon I appealed that. 03:49:08
That rejection of my request. 03:49:12
And I hope to get some of these questions answered if I can get those those documents. 03:49:14
But. 03:49:20
I I didn't learn anything from this. I don't when they say that that the. 03:49:22
That the. 03:49:28
The tasks complete the draft housing element chapters. 03:49:30
Are they talking about the Baird and Driscoll tractors or are they talking about Rincon chapters? I just don't know. 03:49:35
So. 03:49:41
I. 03:49:43
And just. 03:49:45
Very disappointed and I'm hoping that when the. 03:49:46
The my. 03:49:50
Public records request. 03:49:51
Will get reconsidered. And if it does and I learned something, I'll let you all know because I didn't understand anything from 03:49:53
this that I didn't already know. 03:49:57
Thank you. 03:50:02
Thank you. 03:50:08
We have Inglorious and Dahmer. 03:50:11
Welcome. 03:50:13
Thank you. 03:50:16
It's definitely late and to tell you the truth. 03:50:18
That report didn't tell me. 03:50:22
Anything. 03:50:25
I just, I don't even know. It's like, ohh, yes, we've got it. We're excited. 03:50:27
And we're moving on. 03:50:32
Well. 03:50:34
Did I attend National Night Out? No, I didn't, but I doubt if I would have learned anything more there. 03:50:35
Umm. 03:50:43
I don't know what else to say. I would appreciate. 03:50:44
A report with substance. And this one is, oh, we're reviewing an internal report. 03:50:48
That doesn't give the public much except to say, well, we're all still in the dark. 03:50:54
Thank you very much. 03:51:00
Thank you. 03:51:04
Any. 03:51:09
No other hands or hands. 03:51:10
All right, I will close then this to. 03:51:12
No. 03:51:18
Yeah, it looks like. 03:51:19
Tony somebody raised their hand. Tony Choni, yes. 03:51:20
Welcome. 03:51:23
I'm sorry, I thought I had my hand raised. 03:51:25
I agree with what was just said. 03:51:30
It's hard to comment on something that you can't see. 03:51:32
It would really be good to have a comprehensive report. 03:51:37
That has a good narrative. 03:51:41
Has got good graphics. 03:51:43
Specifics. 03:51:47
That we can all. 03:51:49
Look at and respond to. 03:51:50
With specific recommendations and comments. 03:51:53
An additional comment that I have. 03:51:58
Is I keep wondering is Pacific Grove. 03:52:01
Going to have. 03:52:05
A housing Commission. 03:52:06
I know. 03:52:08
Pacific Grove is a small community. 03:52:09
Does this. 03:52:13
Does the Planning Commission? 03:52:14
Act. 03:52:17
As the Housing Commission. 03:52:17
Does the City Council act as a? 03:52:20
Housing Commission. 03:52:23
Who is going to be the? 03:52:27
Final arbiter. 03:52:29
For all of this. 03:52:31
I don't understand it. 03:52:33
Which your night? Be nice. 03:52:34
If it could be. 03:52:36
Specifically. 03:52:38
Spelled out. Thank you. 03:52:39
Thank you. 03:52:42
I see no other hands raised. 03:52:46
All right. 03:52:48
At this point I will close. 03:52:49
These proceedings to further public comment and we'll proceed with discussion. 03:52:51
On this matter by the Commission, so who would like to begin? 03:52:55
But he's looking at each other, Vice Chair Murphy. 03:53:04
I'm not as disappointed as the public in the in the report. This is a progress report of a multi, multi year effort. This is what 03:53:09
what's happened in the past month. 03:53:15
It's happened out in the public view, it's it's staff and our consultant. 03:53:20
Working on housing element. 03:53:25
And the big news is we have a draft. 03:53:27
Umm. 03:53:31
I'm assuming that means that we're on the deadline we think we're on, that the public version will be released sometime in 03:53:32
September. 03:53:36
That the Planning Commission will meet in October. 03:53:40
And City Council will meet you in November and that we're still on that timetable, is that is that right? 03:53:44
But. 03:53:50
Vice Chair Murphy That's correct I. 03:53:50
I think we know that once the public draft is released. 03:53:54
The public has 30 days to to comment. 03:53:58
What What is the city going to do to to encourage comments and to let people know? 03:54:01
You know it's it's available. 03:54:08
And then the second part of my question is. 03:54:09
Once there are comments from the public. 03:54:12
And what you know what what happens to them. I I know whether an EIR for example, or comments and the responses are are appended. 03:54:16
And I haven't seen that in housing elements, but I don't. 03:54:23
I don't know what happens to the comments and and again what? 03:54:25
What is the city going to do to encourage people to comment? 03:54:29
OK. Vice Chair Mary Murphy, thank you for your questions. 03:54:34
We do have a housing element advisory group where people that we've met both in the public or who have expressed interest. 03:54:37
Via e-mail or phone calls. 03:54:46
Will be sent the draft. We will also have it on the website and it will be noticed in the paper. We. 03:54:48
It is typical. 03:54:56
Uh. 03:54:58
And I I have been through housing element processes before the comments and we've discussed this with our consultant that the. 03:54:59
Comments will be received by the city. 03:55:07
And they will be part of what the state? 03:55:09
Sees so it'll be part of the draft housing element and comments that are substantive and need to, if we need to make any amends to 03:55:13
the housing element will be completed and that is part of the scope with the consultant. 03:55:21
So that is how it we are expecting that. 03:55:29
We would present this to City Council November. 03:55:33
1st I believe. 03:55:38
And then we would submit it to the state. If there are a lot of comments that are substantive then. 03:55:39
And we may not be able to stay on that timeline. However, if there are some comments that can easily be addressed or some. 03:55:46
Minor changes to the housing element. We can still submit it to the state and make those changes while they are in their draft 03:55:54
review. 03:55:57
So, so there's a set of comments during the 30 days. 03:56:02
Depending upon the timing of our meeting. 03:56:07
May you may not be within the 30 days. 03:56:10
And then the Council meeting certainly will not be within the 30 days. 03:56:13
So I'm guessing the public will comment during those meetings too. 03:56:17
And those treated the same way as the comments during the 30 days. 03:56:21
Yes. 03:56:26
Vice Chair Murphy So we will accept all comments and. 03:56:27
And submit the draft to the state. 03:56:31
And should there be any? 03:56:34
Major comments that come up at the City Council meeting, like I said that. 03:56:36
We. 03:56:40
Can't address? Then we may need to. 03:56:41
And delay submitting to the state. 03:56:44
Or if they're small comments that are editing, or small, smaller. 03:56:47
Items that can be addressed while the state is reviewing our draft housing element then. 03:56:52
And that's how we will proceed. 03:56:57
And and I think the week before last or two weeks ago, I I had asked. 03:56:59
If you were. 03:57:05
Able to release the. 03:57:06
Decide to inventory ahead of time. 03:57:08
And you had said you were going to talk to Rincon about that. Well, are are we planning to do that? 03:57:10
Vice Chair Murphy, we are not planning to do that. I have that discussed that with our. 03:57:17
Attorneys and there's other analysis and and our consultants as well, there's other analysis within the housing element. 03:57:22
That. 03:57:29
For us to release the housing sites inventory at this time. 03:57:30
Is. 03:57:35
Doesn't make sense. 03:57:36
Without the context of the other chapters of the housing element, however. 03:57:38
I will state that in our. 03:57:42
A. 03:57:46
Outreach, which is on the website. We did have our. 03:57:48
Balancing act. 03:57:53
Tool where we focused on the areas and the sites that would be considered in our housing element, we have not strayed. 03:57:54
From the Balancing Act tool. 03:58:02
And so that is online and if you are. 03:58:05
If anyone is interested. 03:58:07
That was further explained in a follow up. 03:58:09
Meeting so all of that is online, can be watched and slides are available to the public. So. 03:58:13
We haven't really strayed from that, it's just. 03:58:19
Matter of. 03:58:21
Looking at the densities and what what works for how we're going to proceed but. 03:58:23
It's. 03:58:29
We're sticking to what was in the Balancing Act tool. 03:58:30
So in other words, if someone is concerned about the site inventory, they can look online and get a pretty good idea of what the 03:58:33
inventory is going to be. Is that fair? Correct, Yes. 03:58:37
And and if you don't mind, I'll ask. 03:58:42
You to help Jane Haynes. 03:58:45
And. 03:58:47
On her first question, the internal Rincon review of draft housing element chapters. 03:58:48
She asked if that was the Baird and Driscoll material and is. 03:58:52
Is that correct or? 03:58:57
This is Rincon's material. 03:59:01
And it is. 03:59:04
There. 03:59:06
They have. 03:59:08
Created the material. They had a excellent template. 03:59:11
And and. 03:59:15
Created material that I did not see prior to this, but so then this is, you know, Rincon's work. 03:59:17
With some. 03:59:24
Of the materials supplied by Baird and Driscoll is that. 03:59:26
Yes. 03:59:31
There was limited material in the past and and especially when it comes to the FHA, it's it's very thorough. What we're seeing is 03:59:32
a draft. 03:59:36
It it it. 03:59:41
Adheres to the state's requirements. 03:59:43
So I would say that. 03:59:46
OK. And and her other question had to do with the community engagement? 03:59:48
And I think there are two parts in the report. 03:59:53
Draft a community engagement summary that. 03:59:55
That I think means that Rincon. 03:59:58
Working with the staff created a summary of all of the. 04:00:00
Outreach so far is that. 04:00:04
Correct. Yeah. And then the the National Night Out. 04:00:07
I'm guessing you and or members of your staff attended and talked to people about housing. 04:00:10
That That's correct, Chair Murphy. And last year we did have two planning commissioners attend and provide information to the 04:00:16
public about the housing element. 04:00:21
And on our website we we do have two. 04:00:25
Uh. 04:00:28
To outreach or to meetings that have occurred. So those are listed on our website. We also have these pop-up events that we've 04:00:30
continually any opportunity we have at like the. 04:00:36
The National Night Out. Our staff attended. 04:00:43
And provided information on the housing element as well as the good old days. We were out there all weekend, we had a tent, we had 04:00:46
lots of visitors. So anytime we see an opportunity to get input from the public we we definitely take advantage of that. It's it's 04:00:54
really important to us to hear from the public and we do, we heard quite a bit of comments at both events. 04:01:01
Yeah, and we heard some comments from the public, you know, before our meeting tonight and people talking about. 04:01:10
You know, state control versus city control. 04:01:16
And and I don't know if the people who spoke to us represent a lot of residents, of just a few residents. 04:01:19
But. 04:01:26
But that is a big issue people are talking about and you know, here and in other places. 04:01:26
And and I guess I would just urge if even though we're late in the process, if if there are ways for us to engage the community as 04:01:32
much as possible, I would you know, I would certainly support. 04:01:39
Support that and. 04:01:45
I wondered if it made any sense at this point to. 04:01:48
For instance. 04:01:51
Send a postcard to everybody. 04:01:54
You know, it's all the addresses in town and then you know what we're up to and how they can, how how they can participate. 04:01:57
Just a suggestion. 04:02:04
Thank you. 04:02:07
Comments. 04:02:09
Commissioner Sawyer. 04:02:11
What does AFH stand for for the third time? You've told me many times and I can never remember. 04:02:14
It's OK. Thank you, Commissioner. Sorry. 04:02:22
A FH is Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing. 04:02:25
Yeah. 04:02:30
It's an awkward phrase. That's why we can't remember. 04:02:33
Words is enough. 04:02:37
This this is a new. 04:02:40
Chapter to the housing element that. 04:02:42
We did not see in the prior housing element and it really came through from the federal government. 04:02:45
It was taken out of requirements. 04:02:51
With HUD from the federal government during the Trump administration, the state of California felt that it was a great. 04:02:55
Umm. 04:03:02
Recommendation and move forward with incorporating it into our housing element. 04:03:03
Vice Chair Murphy, I was just going to mention that the city of Monterey. 04:03:13
Last week. 04:03:17
And release their draft housing element. See. You can find it easily on the web. 04:03:19
You know it's it's long and. 04:03:24
And. 04:03:27
It might make it make sense for us to read it to see things in there that. 04:03:28
You know, we'd like or don't like and it'll give us a. 04:03:32
You know, these some of the housing elements are really formulaic and would be. 04:03:35
It's not a bad idea for us all to acquaint ourselves with what they look like and how they how they work, et cetera. 04:03:42
Vice for Commissioner Kubica. 04:03:49
I I think I heard that the. 04:03:52
It was going to the Council, the first on November 1st. When would it be coming to the Planning Commission? 04:03:56
Commissioner Kubica, we are hoping to come to Planning Commission in October. 04:04:03
So it would be like the first week of October. The 2nd Thursday of October is when the Planning Commission meeting will be held. I 04:04:08
don't have the date right in front of me and we would have 30 days to review it before then. 04:04:13
I believe we would notice 30 days. 04:04:19
Minimum prior to this, the requirement would be prior to the City Council. 04:04:23
Meeting. 04:04:28
When we released the draft for final review, but I will if we can. We will try to have it 30 days prior to. 04:04:29
The Planning Commission meeting. 04:04:36
Thank you very much. 04:04:38
And another question is, how is the sequel coming? 04:04:40
We, I haven't heard anything about that, Commissioner Kubica, we did meet with our consultants and our city attorneys today to 04:04:44
discuss the Sequoia. 04:04:48
Issues the secret consultant Harris is reviewing. 04:04:52
The draft too, so they will. We will all come up and determine based on the draft what we will, what type of sequel review we will 04:04:56
need to do. 04:05:02
OK, so we haven't really tasked them to do anything yet or they're just evaluating it or Commissioner Kubica, we have tasked them. 04:05:10
The issue is that they need to scope. 04:05:15
The extent of the project. So under Sequoia, that's. 04:05:20
That's scoping, so they need to see the project itself, which is the draft. 04:05:24
In order to complete the scoping for the Sequoia to move forward. 04:05:28
And looking at the proposal that talks about screen check. 04:05:34
And then it talks. I guess that's screen check is when. 04:05:38
The staff and a review of the staff's comments. This is a question. 04:05:42
The staff's comments are incorporated in by Rincon and then the staff gets to review it again before it comes out. 04:05:47
Commissioner Cooper, yes, if we would provide, we are. 04:05:54
Reviewing the document, I have lots of comments and questions. We'll provide that once I've finalized my review. 04:05:57
Provide that to Rincon. Rincon will then incorporate those edits. Then I will once again. 04:06:06
Review and staff that they incorporated all of the edits that we requested and then it will be ready for public review. 04:06:11
Thank you. 04:06:20
Any other questions? I have some. 04:06:22
Umm. 04:06:25
How many pages is this thing gonna be do you think? Do you have any idea? 04:06:27
How many pages or how many pages is the draft? 04:06:34
And and I'm not including the Sequoia cause who knows how long that thing is gonna be, but. 04:06:37
Chair Lily. 04:06:42
I just know right now that FH is like 70 some odd pages, just that chapter alone. So. 04:06:45
I don't know. It's thick. I I haven't looked at the final drop, but I would say it's gonna be between at least 250 to 400 pages. 04:06:52
So it's not a small document. It's not it's it's a several nights of bedtime reading. Umm. 04:06:58
Yeah, OK. 04:07:05
Who is we? 04:07:09
When you say you kept saying we and the reason I'm asking you, we, I I I think we need to nail that down. 04:07:11
And I also let me let me begin with this observation I think last. 04:07:17
Week or the week before, whenever I was at the City Council meeting. 04:07:22
It was August 2nd. 04:07:25
And you had just received? 04:07:27
The draft. 04:07:29
Of the housing element from Rincon. 04:07:30
So. 04:07:32
The question I have is how long is it gonna take staff? 04:07:33
To review that. 04:07:37
And get back corrections and changes or whatever staff feels is appropriate. 04:07:39
To Rincon, let me. 04:07:44
Go through the progression so I understand because I don't. 04:07:45
That'll go back to Rincon. Rincon will fix it and then somewhere along the line it'll go out for public comment. Do we have any 04:07:50
idea when that is? Do we have any schedule yet? 04:07:55
I mean, we're getting very near the deadlines on these things. 04:08:00
And it just seemed to me that it would help everybody involved. 04:08:03
If we said heart, if you said or we set hard deadlines. 04:08:07
For people to do their job otherwise. 04:08:11
You know, we we we probably will miss the deadline. 04:08:14
And I I'm just that's my opinion. 04:08:17
And maybe you all agree, maybe you don't. But I I just think it it would help us. 04:08:19
To help you really. 04:08:24
To start getting into some hard deadlines here so that the consultants know that they got to get it done. 04:08:26
That's my view so. 04:08:33
You know September, you know, I'll go back to what I said before, is that the 1st of September? Is that the 30th of September? 04:08:37
I will ask the Commission, you know, and I've said this before, don't give us this thing. 04:08:44
Six days before it's due. 04:08:49
And then ask us because. 04:08:51
You're not gonna get much of an answer I don't think, but maybe you will. But I I you know 6-6 days to review 300 or 400 pages or 04:08:53
250 pages, not a lot of time. 04:08:58
So one of the questions I'm going to have to ask the Commission tonight is if they're available for a special meeting, a second 04:09:05
meeting in early, early or late October, probably early October. 04:09:10
To review this thing so that we can give you adequate input before deadlines and not drag this thing out. 04:09:16
You know. 04:09:23
So that that's that's my view of this I, I, I think you know August 2nd. 04:09:24
All that. 04:09:30
You know. 04:09:31
I don't know how much time you need to review all this stuff. It's 250 pages, a lot of pages to review and I understand that. 04:09:32
What you're you're doing and you're doing it with with Alissa Kroger I guess and whoever else and your attorneys but. 04:09:38
I don't know if you want to comment to that. 04:09:45
You know. 04:09:48
Sure, Lily. 04:09:51
As you know, I have wear many hats. We have a lot of work to do and we are working as fast as we can. 04:09:52
I. 04:09:59
I read this at night. 04:10:01
So I'm because my day job is pretty busy so and also we have Alyssa Kroger who's also working on a lot of. 04:10:02
Different items we've had the general plan update we are in the process of. 04:10:10
Beginning a lot of endeavors for this city that haven't happened before, so Needless to say, I can't give you an exact date, but 04:10:15
we are trying to stick to the schedule that we've. 04:10:21
We. 04:10:27
Told you that we get this to you a draft by October. The consultant is completely. 04:10:27
Aware of our timing and our wish to accelerate. 04:10:32
All changes that we have. 04:10:36
To incorporate so. 04:10:40
Umm. 04:10:43
I think they're on board. They know that we need to move this forward. This is a document that. 04:10:43
Is very standard like. 04:10:50
Commissioner Murphy just said that you can look at Carmel's, you can look at other drafts and see that this. 04:10:53
Aligns with other drafts. The great thing with this consultant too is that they have. 04:10:59
Been in the process of over thirty of these throughout the state. 04:11:05
So that works in our favor. 04:11:08
They're aware of. 04:11:10
For FH, for example, we're trying to preempt and make sure that. 04:11:12
We know what the state will be looking for specifically in this new document, in this new chapter, so they're on top of what needs 04:11:16
to be in this document we've been meeting. 04:11:22
Every other week to ensure. 04:11:28
We know what this state will ask, so hopefully by the time. 04:11:30
We submit this to the state and the comments come in from the state. They won't be. 04:11:34
They won't be too substantive. They won't. 04:11:40
Be anything we know right now to. I do know that Rincon. 04:11:43
I met with the. 04:11:48
Head of HCD We did have a site visit with HCD. 04:11:49
And they it sounds like they are on board with our sites inventory because we took them for a site tour, showed them the site 04:11:54
locations that we talked about earlier. 04:11:59
That were in our balancing act tool. 04:12:04
We showed them around, they seem pretty that they seem pretty happy with our sights inventory. 04:12:08
So. 04:12:14
All in all, we are on the right track. 04:12:15
Where are draft? 04:12:19
Looks good. 04:12:20
We have to review it as staff. 04:12:22
And make sure we're thorough. 04:12:25
There's data in there, there's. 04:12:27
The FH is all new, which also incorporates quite a bit of different data. 04:12:31
And so. 04:12:36
Um. 04:12:37
You know, I've reviewed draft documents where I've had to correct math before, right? Like the consultants got the math wrong. 04:12:38
Like those are it's, it's not just. 04:12:42
And we're not doing a small review here, we're we're really being thorough, making sure that we're looking at the right data 04:12:46
points. 04:12:49
That it's all entered correctly, that the tables make sense. 04:12:53
As far as the text in the. 04:12:57
All of that. So that's in process. We're hoping to get the draft final review all of our comments back, mind you we we just 04:13:00
received this. 04:13:04
Like a week ago, right? So hopefully within the next week we'll have all our. 04:13:08
Uh. 04:13:13
Are. 04:13:13
Comments to the consultant and I'm I've worked with Veronica Tam and on the Rincon team on the last housing element. 04:13:14
I recall all of the incorporated incorporation of. 04:13:22
Staff comments being very thorough and quick, so I do know that Rincon is very responsive to what our needs are and is fully 04:13:27
understanding of that. 04:13:32
So let let me let me elaborate a couple or just a couple make a couple points. 04:13:38
I hear everything you said. I've been through that myself. I understand what you mean. 04:13:43
So this is August 10th, so maybe, maybe. 04:13:48
When you said a week from now, that's August 17th. 04:13:52
You said to us by October. 04:13:55
So. 04:13:58
We would then, we would then is on the Planning Commission having a document on October 1st or thereabouts, is that what you're 04:13:59
saying? 04:14:02
You said by October, so I I'm just. 04:14:08
Or when? When would it be released to the public? 04:14:16
I mean, I mean, I'm not clear about does the 30 days for the public review. 04:14:19
How does that interact with our 30 days? Does did the overlap or are they separate? 04:14:24
How does that work? 04:14:29
It's so we as I said before we have a 30 day requirement prior to it. 04:14:31
Going to the City Council, but like I said, if we can. 04:14:36
Adjust that timeline. We already have a draft. 04:14:40
A draft notice ready. 04:14:44
We'll do whatever we can to have it sooner. 04:14:46
And have a longer public comment period. 04:14:50
OK. Now how my final questions is so you said we. 04:14:52
So comments come in from people about things. Who decides? 04:14:56
What changes are made? 04:15:01
You know you, you, you know you get saying we who's we. 04:15:03
I mean. 04:15:07
Really, what the question is who decides? 04:15:08
The changes that come in, whether they they're. 04:15:11
They ought to be. 04:15:13
Staff makes the determination if. 04:15:15
If we look at all of the comments, we will work with our consultant. 04:15:18
To address the comments, so. 04:15:23
Comments could range anywhere from. 04:15:25
We. 04:15:29
We don't. 04:15:31
Like this at all? 04:15:32
We don't want to abide by the state regulation. OK, well, we'll enter that into the record. 04:15:33
It could be you misspelled a. 04:15:38
Word here this sentence doesn't make sense. Or can you elaborate on the, the this or that you know those types of will have to 04:15:40
determine what types of. 04:15:44
Comments come in the state then. 04:15:49
Once we submit it to the state, we'll also have. 04:15:52
A set of comments. 04:15:54
So like I said, we're seeing throughout the state our consultant team. 04:15:56
Are seeing. 04:16:00
The FHA isn't thorough enough. There's. 04:16:02
There's, and that's a big one that they're focused on. 04:16:05
So. 04:16:09
All of these our goal is get. 04:16:10
A compliant housing element. So whatever we need to do to have a compliant housing element. 04:16:13
Is our. 04:16:20
Is our objective so let let let let me get into some detail here a little bit so you said staff would just would would what make 04:16:21
decide or make a recommendation of the City Council about the way it ought to be. 04:16:27
And I'm, I'm, I'm kind of putting words into your mouth, but I suppose maybe by saying that that way, but. 04:16:35
The policy making organization in this city is a City Council. 04:16:41
So. 04:16:46
I don't understand the comment about staff making. 04:16:47
The decision about. 04:16:50
The draft plant I know. 04:16:53
If that's what you said, maybe I misunderstood you. 04:16:54
I I don't know if I'm understanding what you're asking me and my question was who was we And as staff will be we will accept all 04:16:58
comments and if there are substantive comments that need serious changes to the housing element, we'll do that. So but who is we 04:17:04
will do that. What do you mean by that? Our staff? 04:17:11
Well, how does that then comport or how does that apply then to the city council's? 04:17:18
Decision to submit a proposal but. 04:17:24
Like anything, the staff. 04:17:28
Gives, makes decisions. They have a draft, they give to City Council. Well, that's what I wanted to hear. So they'll give it. 04:17:30
You'll give it to the City Council then to make the final approval. 04:17:34
And to make changes. 04:17:40
Sure, Lily. Yes. OK. That's all I wanted to know. 04:17:41
OK, that's that's fine. Yeah. No, that's that's what I wanted to hear. I I do have one suggestion, though. And the chair has 04:17:45
mentioned several times and I suspect that he's right. 04:17:50
They all end up. 04:17:56
Needing or hoping to have two meetings. 04:17:58
In October. 04:18:01
You are regular meeting in a special meeting. 04:18:03
It's a. It's a large document that that seems quite within the realm of possibility. 04:18:06
We've tried to have special meetings before and we haven't had much success. 04:18:11
Getting them set up. 04:18:15
And I would urge the chair and the director. 04:18:16
Between now and next month, for instance, to pick at the second meeting date in October that we all are aware of. 04:18:20
And that it shouldn't be that difficult that I hope. 04:18:27
You know, I just hope you can accomplish it. The worst thing that happens is we have a second meeting scheduled. 04:18:30
And we have to cancel it. 04:18:35
You know, but otherwise, let's let's just do it. 04:18:37
Well, that that that falls into the category then of of we can pull right now if that's permissible. Is that legally permissible, 04:18:41
that's stable staff probably doesn't have. Well, it would be an option. It would be an October. So if we have it by the end of 04:18:46
September if it's publicly available. 04:18:51
Then. 04:18:57
You know is is the first it's the first Thursday available for everybody. Is the third Thursday available for everybody is a is a 04:18:59
different attorney might want to and the city attorney may have to weigh in on this before I say anything more. Mr. Pierick. 04:19:06
I was waiting for that question. The answer is you can. 04:19:14
Discuss this now and come to an agreement, or at least however many of you have got your calendars with you as to what your 04:19:20
availability is to schedule a special meeting. 04:19:26
OK. Thank you. 04:19:33
So how, how is everybody you know Thursday works the best? I don't know if it does. 04:19:35
But before we met, when the Planning Commission met twice a month, we met on the 1st and 3rd Thursday. Not that that's sacrosanct 04:19:39
or anything like that. 04:19:43
But how do you feel about meeting on the 1st? 04:19:47
Even the 3rd for that matter, But certainly we're reading on the second, which is October 12th. 04:19:50
So that's. 04:19:57
That's I would suggest the 12th and the 19th, and that would give staff time to take whatever we recommend on the 19th. 04:19:58
Time to prepare that. 04:20:08
For the City Council in November, I think. 04:20:09
OK, how how do how do you all feel about that? 04:20:13
Billable. 04:20:17
Everybody seems to be shaking their heads no. 04:20:19
Andy Kubica says no. 04:20:21
And I don't know what Bill Frederickson would say because he told me his schedule, but. 04:20:23
Think he's OK? You're going to be gone. 04:20:28
You can do it the 5th which is October 5th. How does it? 04:20:31
The only problem I think the thing that we need to think about is what other meetings does the staff have to staff and I think 04:20:46
it's really important to keep that in mind. 04:20:51
Instead of just trying to do arbitrary. 04:20:57
Seriously. Because I mean, they got lots of stuff they got to do. 04:21:00
So we have. 04:21:07
Most people can make the 12th and the 19th. One person can not but can make the 5th. 04:21:09
And we don't know about Mr. Friedrich. 04:21:15
And Commissioner Fredericks. 04:21:18
Who I will call, I think I can call him. 04:21:20
And ask. 04:21:23
I I think it would be good if we could pick. 04:21:27
Umm. 04:21:30
Two meeting dates. 04:21:31
Or maybe even a possible third? 04:21:33
And then give it to the staff and see if it works for them. 04:21:37
And. 04:21:42
We may not have everybody able to come, but I think as long as we have a quorum that should be sufficient. 04:21:44
All right. Do you want to make that as a motion? 04:21:51
Is that we? Do we have to have a motion for that, Mister Perry? 04:21:54
Or just no you don't. 04:21:57
No, you don't need to make a motion for that, but I can tell you my experience is usually that I'm trying to, as I think you're 04:21:59
experiencing from the last few minutes. 04:22:03
Trying to to do this amongst yourselves is sometimes a challenge, but you could do is just ask staff to coordinate with the 04:22:08
individual commissioners and find a mutually acceptable date for your special meeting, and I think that would save you some time 04:22:13
here. 04:22:18
Well, we certainly gotten a head start on that. We can certainly turn that over to them, you know. 04:22:24
I think. 04:22:30
Commissioner Sawyers come in about picking two or three dates. I think we have that. 04:22:32
We can go from there if that if that's works for the Commission, then we can. 04:22:36
As Director White Mr. 04:22:41
Campbell, if they can do that to finalize it. I think we we have two or three dates in mind already and then of course that gets 04:22:43
into. 04:22:46
Availability of. 04:22:50
Meeting Hall and everything like that. 04:22:52
Does that work? 04:22:54
Charlie, yes, we appreciate your. 04:22:56
Committing to a second meeting if needed and we will definitely. 04:23:00
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Yeah, we're all here. 00:01:46
So it is 6:00 PM. 00:01:49
I am Stephen Lilly and I will call to order this August 10th. 00:01:51
2023 Regular meeting of the Pacific Rd. Planning Commission. 00:01:56
Mr. Campbell, would you please call the roll? 00:02:00
Generally. 00:02:04
Here. 00:02:05
Vice Chair Murphy. 00:02:07
Commissioner Frederickson. 00:02:11
He has an excused absence. 00:02:14
Sure Sawyer. Ohh. Sorry, Commissioner Sawyer. 00:02:17
President, Commissioner Davison. 00:02:19
President, Commissioner Kubica. 00:02:21
Here. 00:02:23
Commissioner, Commissioner Dzinski. 00:02:24
Present we have 6 present one absent we have a quorum. 00:02:27
Good. So as I said, Commissioner Frederickson has an excuse absence and as Mr. Campbell said, we have a quorum. 00:02:31
Let me just begin briefly by stating this meeting is conducted under revised rules mandated and Assembly Bill 2449. 00:02:40
Besides our median and chambers here this evening, we have a virtual or zoom participation and therefore a hybrid format. 00:02:48
The webinar ID and toll free numbers for those not in attendance on Zoom are on the agenda phase sheet. 00:02:55
When the host opens the agenda for public comment, those wishing to speak via Zoom should press Star 9 to raise your hand. 00:03:03
And star 6 to mute when recognized. 00:03:09
Before we continue further, let me remind you, including myself. 00:03:14
That we need to speak directly into the microphone so there are equipment can properly record us. 00:03:18
So and that also means we need to make sure the. 00:03:26
Each other's microphone is on. 00:03:29
So, so now we come to our agenda. Does anybody have any changes to the agenda? 00:03:31
Ohh hearing none. May I have a motion then to approve the agenda? 00:03:41
I move to approve the agenda. 00:03:48
I'll second. All right. Commissioner Nuzenski moved to approve the agenda and seconded by. 00:03:50
Vice Chair Murphy. 00:03:56
So is there any discussion about the agenda? 00:03:59
Hearing none, then Mr. Campbell, would you please call the roll and? 00:04:05
All those in favor should say aye, and those opposed should say nay. 00:04:09
Commissioner Nijinsky. 00:04:16
Aye. 00:04:18
Commissioner, Vice Chair Murphy. 00:04:19
Commissioner Kubica. 00:04:22
Aye. 00:04:23
Commissioner Davison. 00:04:25
Aye. 00:04:26
Commissioner Sawyer. 00:04:28
Aye. 00:04:29
Chair Lily Aye. 00:04:30
Agenda is approved. 00:04:33
Alright, so the agenda is approved by the motion to approve. The agenda is approved by Six Eyes No Nos. And so we move now to item 00:04:36
number 3. 00:04:39
Commission and staff announcements. 00:04:44
Does any member of the Commission have any announcements? 00:04:46
Commissioner Sawyer. 00:04:51
Are you ready with my letter? 00:05:00
Mr. Campbell. 00:05:03
You want me to? I have other things to talk about while you're doing that. You want me to do that? 00:05:19
OK. I also wanted to give an oral report on the. 00:05:23
Story Poll subcommittee because there is no place on it on our agenda. The last report was on July 13th. 00:05:29
We have met twice since then, on July 20th and August 3rd. 00:05:38
Our next meeting is August 16th. 00:05:43
We're making progress. That's all I got to say. Lots of it. 00:05:46
We finished with all the comparisons with other municipalities. 00:05:50
We are now working to complete our story pull content outline. We're close to starting to write. 00:05:54
We have completed work on a certification letter we're working to complete. 00:06:02
Waivers, exceptions, and alternative policies. 00:06:07
Signage and other specifics regarding policy. 00:06:11
And that's the end of the report on the. 00:06:15
Story poll committee, unless my compatriots wish to add anything. 00:06:18
No. OK. Thank you. 00:06:24
Umm. 00:06:27
And then I. 00:06:28
Have written a. 00:06:31
3rd letter in regards to the Great Divide, tide, pool, safety and environmental concerns. 00:06:33
My first letter was in June on the 6th. My second letter was July 12th. 00:06:40
And my third letter was today. 00:06:46
Which demonstrates continuing safety and environmental issues which include the following. 00:06:50
There's rebar protruding out of the wood edging beside the path, the drop off area near the coastal path above the great tide 00:06:56
pool. 00:07:00
And that's evident in photograph one, which we'll see in just a minute. 00:07:05
Mayors photograph one, so there's a rebar. 00:07:10
And what's worrisome to me is I was there yesterday when I took this picture. 00:07:13
And there were two ladies going down this path, and one lady did it without any issue. The third, the second lady actually 00:07:20
basically had to sit down so she could go over this. 00:07:26
And when I approached them, the second lady explained that she had a number of orthopedic. 00:07:32
Concerns and injuries. And she had to be extraordinarily careful when she was going down a path like this, so. 00:07:41
It just worries me that we have this. This is part of our coastal path. I just think it needs to be repaired. 00:07:48
This was sort of repaired in July with a DG and you can see that the DG did not stay in place and we have further erosion. 00:07:56
Thirdly, there's no signage or warning of the drop off on the coastal path and then there are. 00:08:06
No protections. 00:08:13
Yeah, number #2. 00:08:17
For the fragile dunes or the tide strums Lupin habitat on the Oceanside of the coastal. 00:08:20
Path and what you see here is. 00:08:27
The. 00:08:31
Wire actually down on the ground. 00:08:33
It doesn't do any good to keep people out of there, so if I could see the next. 00:08:36
Slide. Yeah. And that is a sign that says no entry. And you can see there's evidence of a lot of footprints right behind that no 00:08:41
entry. 00:08:46
And that area is? 00:08:51
Of. 00:08:54
Significance to. 00:08:56
The. 00:08:58
Are. 00:08:59
You know, great tide pool because it contains a lot of the tide streams. Lupin. 00:09:00
Tide streams. Lupin grow in very few areas. 00:09:05
In the world. 00:09:09
We happen to have in our great tide pool area the largest colony of them. 00:09:11
So they're considered rare and endangered and it just. 00:09:17
I mean, it breaks my heart every time I go by and I see all these footsteps. 00:09:21
And then the last. 00:09:25
Concern that I have is there's a considerable foot traffic as you can see through these fragile dune areas. 00:09:28
This area was. 00:09:37
Developed as part of a coastal development permit that allowed a lot of work to happen in the Asilomar Dunes and Sylmar State 00:09:40
Beach Conference Center grounds. And this. 00:09:44
Umm. 00:09:49
Area in the great tide pools was part of the mitigation that was granted during that CDP. 00:09:50
And there there was a plan that was submitted to the city in May of 2013 and. 00:09:58
At a minimum, the plan was to demonstrate that they would protect the restoration area and avoid volunteer trails across the site. 00:10:05
And quite frankly, that's not happening and this is part of our coastal development permit. 00:10:14
And then the other issue that I have. 00:10:19
Strong feelings about his restoration shall be premised on enhancing dune habitat so that self functioning. 00:10:22
High quality dune habitat in perpetuity. 00:10:29
I don't see that happening if we don't protect this. 00:10:32
Umm. 00:10:35
It. 00:10:36
Appears that the CDP requirements are not outlined above. 00:10:37
Aren't followed by the city, as evidenced by the lack of continuous protection for fragile dunes and biologic areas. 00:10:41
And there also appears to be a rather blatant disregard for pedestrian safety on the Great Tide Pool coastal path. 00:10:48
Simple mitigations such as post and cable fencing, signage and a potential breakaway stair structure could be utilized. 00:10:57
And long term mitigation should include consideration of rerouting these coastal paths. 00:11:05
And viewing platforms due to coastal storm hazards. Thank you. 00:11:11
Mr. Chair, this is City Attorney Brian Perry. My recommendation would be that if the Commission wants to address any of the 00:11:16
concerns that were just expressed, is that you put this on a future council agenda. 00:11:23
So they can't really be any discussion about it tonight. 00:11:32
But if you wanted to put it on a future agenda, you could do that. 00:11:35
We plan to do that for this agenda, however we. 00:11:39
Couldn't do that because of the lack of proper noticing, but thank you. We do plan to do that. I appreciate that. 00:11:44
And then the one. 00:11:51
Last question that I had is in regards to the board standing committees, joint working group. I have no idea what that is and I'm. 00:11:54
Hoping Miss Wyatt will be able to elucidate what that is. Thank you. Those are the end of my comments. 00:12:04
Thank you. 00:12:11
Are there any other comments? 00:12:13
From Commissioners. 00:12:15
If not, I just have a couple. 00:12:17
First, on July 13th or last meeting, we approved coastal development permit. 00:12:20
22-0318 multiple locations in the coastal zone and you should know that that matter has been appealed to the. 00:12:26
City Council. 00:12:33
Other actions we took on July 13th stand. 00:12:35
At least at the local level of stand, they stand. 00:12:41
Including architectural and coastal development permit. 00:12:44
CDP for 100 Asilomar. 00:12:48
And architectural and use permit for 1060 Jewel Ave. 00:12:50
And denial of coastal development permit for pints on the peninsula. 00:12:54
And so I I would just repeat that a comment made by Commissioner Sawyer that next month's agenda could possibly have. 00:13:01
A recommendation of the City Council on the disposition of the matter she discussed about the Great Tide Pool. 00:13:12
Are there any staff announcements Director Wyatt or Mr. Campbell? 00:13:18
I'd be happy to address Commissioner Sawyers question about the the Joint Commission's working group. 00:13:24
It's. Please, please, please. 00:13:32
That is, Chief Madalone has put together had the idea to have one volunteer for each board and Commission. 00:13:36
To get together at their time. 00:13:44
And. 00:13:48
We have. 00:13:49
We we have given it or presented it to a number of boards so far. One of the reasons we didn't this time around is there are a lot 00:13:51
of questions that have been coming up from boards. 00:13:56
And commissions as we go through it. 00:14:02
And So what we're going to do is we're going to try to have the chief come and and. 00:14:04
Let you know what. 00:14:09
Her plan was for this Joint Commission's working group. It's meant to be. 00:14:10
Staff free. It will be only one volunteer per per group. It's not a decision making board, but it's meant for communication 00:14:17
purposes only. 00:14:21
OK. That's good. Thank you. Thank you. 00:14:28
Tonight. 00:14:32
And I think I heard his voice previously. We have Brian Perik, our legal counsel. 00:14:33
I think he's here. Do you have any announcements? 00:14:38
I'm just getting my mute button off there now. I have no announcements on this evening. Thank you, Mr. Chair. 00:14:45
All right, we come now to. 00:14:53
Council liaison announcements. Council member Coletti, do you have any announcements? Thank you, Chair, and greetings to all on 00:14:56
the Planning Commission. 00:15:00
I do have a couple of items I'd like to report regarding our August 2nd Council meeting. 00:15:05
We did a first read of our Accessory Dwelling Unit Ordinance which came before Planning Commission previously. 00:15:11
And we also another item we also selected Rincon. 00:15:19
As the contractor for our focus general plan update. 00:15:25
They will be the consultant, the lead consultant, I should say. 00:15:30
And we chose to kind of do it Ala carte, so. 00:15:34
We there were two phases that were presented. 00:15:38
As options to counsel, we chose to pursue phase one initially. 00:15:42
And there are four principal components of phase one. 00:15:46
Zoning, Ordinance and Map amendments. 00:15:51
Is 1 objective design and development standards. Site development is a second. 00:15:54
And general plan land use element consistency updates. 00:16:01
And then finally a program EIR which would be amended later. 00:16:06
Based on some of the work that would happen in phase two. 00:16:10
The contract will run through the end of fiscal year 2425. 00:16:14
As you know, we are expecting soon. It was also reported at the same Council meeting by Rincon that they had submitted their 00:16:19
administrative draft. 00:16:23
Of the housing element to staff. 00:16:28
So we're expecting to see that soon. 00:16:30
And hopefully we can. 00:16:32
We can get started on on getting that adopted and certified and then getting going with our general plan updates. 00:16:35
That will be necessary to get. 00:16:43
The housing element implemented. 00:16:45
And finally, last point, we appointed City Council, appointed Tory Hanna as our city manager pro temporary. 00:16:48
With hiring authority, effective immediately. 00:16:57
And so we have a new city manager acting as a manager pro temporary. 00:17:00
And other than that? 00:17:06
That's about it. 00:17:08
Have a good meeting. 00:17:09
Alright, well, thank you. 00:17:10
We now come to item 5 on the agenda, general public comment. 00:17:13
General public comment must deal with matters subject to the jurisdiction of the City. 00:17:18
And the Planning Commission, but are not on the agenda this evening. 00:17:22
This is also an appropriate time to comment on items in the consent agenda. 00:17:26
But only if the speaker does not wish to have the item pulled for consideration by this Commission. 00:17:30
Comments from the public will be limited to 3 minutes per speaker and will not receive Commission action. 00:17:37
Comments regarding an item on the agenda will be heard later, at the time of the Commission's consideration of that item. 00:17:43
Before we continue, I believe there are several letters and emails in our agenda packet. 00:17:50
They are mainly included in the. 00:17:55
A relative subject. 00:17:59
In the packet. 00:18:01
Our administrative technician, Debbie Gonzales, also keeps a copy of all communications. 00:18:03
Of our Commission in a binder in our office, So that's always available. 00:18:09
So would anyone like to address the Commission on matters not on the agenda? 00:18:14
Welcome. 00:18:24
My name is Vince Tuminello. 00:18:31
And I'm here tonight to make a general. 00:18:34
Oral communication. 00:18:37
About some activity that's taking place in a non official capacity. 00:18:39
By a group of resident neighbors. 00:18:44
Not only here in Pacific Grove, but around the state. 00:18:48
And we've had some meetings casually in a non official capacity with residents of Carmel who are much more organized. 00:18:52
Then the residents of Pacific Grove and many times remain quiet and and don't choose to participate in Planning Commission, City 00:19:02
Council or other meetings and my topic tonight is to alert you. 00:19:09
That there is an organization which is doing wonderful work. 00:19:16
Called Our Neighborhood Voices and they have a website Our Neighborhood Voices. 00:19:20
Dot com spelled just like it is one word our neighborhoodvoices.com And what's the issue I wish to talk about? 00:19:26
This group among local residents and residents from other communities. 00:19:34
Has the objective to do our best to have a completed initiative. 00:19:39
Which will block. 00:19:46
The mandate by the state which is imposing on Pacific Grove to override many of our local ordinances, zoning, water, sewage and 00:19:48
other. 00:19:53
Operations that take place in the city. 00:19:59
And to force us as a city. 00:20:02
And to you, we'll be participating in the procedures of developing this policy. 00:20:04
If you're allowed by the state and to the extent that you're allowed by the state, and we find this to be abhorrent. 00:20:10
Many of our local residents are not fully informed as to what it's all about. 00:20:16
So I want to refer you as individuals, you as commissioners and everyone in the city. 00:20:20
That they need to take a look on the Internet at our neighborhoodvoices.com who's putting together an initiative? 00:20:27
To block and void the state mandate. 00:20:35
Which? 00:20:40
Is taking control of the development of the city away from city. 00:20:41
And putting it in the hands of the state. 00:20:46
Overriding many of the things we've become accustomed to, like planning that would involve consideration of our character, our 00:20:49
resources, and our ability to provide for any further development. Now you may have heard that as a casual way. 00:20:58
That the state is mandating that the city Pacific Growth provide 1200. 00:21:07
New units and this is under the illusion that these are going to be low and affordable income units. 00:21:13
And that's really not the import that's taking place here, the numbers that came up with this 1100. 00:21:20
A new unit concept was originally developed by a subcommittee of Ambac. 00:21:28
The Association of Monterey Bay. 00:21:34
A MB A/C Association of Monterey Bay Governments and in at that time. This is several decades ago. They're subcommittee. 00:21:37
Worked to develop what they thought was going to be necessary in the future and they came up with this number of 1100. It was not 00:21:46
a unanimous vote. Many of the. 00:21:51
Participants in that committee found a lot of disdain for that recommendation. So if you, as a local member of the community or as 00:21:56
a body as a commissioner, find that it's very unreasonable for the state to come down and force us to build 1100 new units without 00:22:05
any consideration for the quality of life, the parking, the sewage, the water. 00:22:13
The architectural design and so forth. I encourage all of you to visit the website Our Neighbourhood Voices. 00:22:22
And when that. 00:22:29
Referendum is presented to you that you would support it as a body, as an individual resident. 00:22:31
And that we could gather signatures to put this on the ballot. 00:22:37
So that the residents can stop this ridiculous mandate to overbuild. 00:22:40
Without local control in the city of Pacific Grove. Thank you so much. Thank you. 00:22:46
Is there anyone else? 00:22:52
Welcome. 00:22:56
Good evening, planning commissioners. My name is Adam Pinterest. I'm the government and community affairs director for the 00:23:03
Monterey County Association of Realtors, and I'm addressing item agenda, item 6A on the consent agenda. I do not want it pulled. 00:23:09
I just want to appreciate staff for putting together a very thorough report and gathering information on this subject. I look 00:23:16
forward to learning more. In other jurisdictions, community land trusts have proven an effective and creative way. 00:23:22
For creating more affordable housing, which has been identified as a clear need and challenge for this community. 00:23:28
And so I look forward to learning more and I hope the Commission proceeds with this in a thoughtful manner with an emphasis on 00:23:33
housing. Thank you. 00:23:36
Thank you. 00:23:41
Is there anybody virtually Mr. Campbell, who would like to speak? 00:23:43
Ohh. I'm sorry. Please come ahead. 00:23:48
Didn't see you. 00:23:51
Welcome. 00:23:56
My name is Judy Cole, I'm a resident of Pacific Grove and I want to personally thank Commissioner Sawyer and I believe it's 00:24:00
Navinsky and. 00:24:06
Ohh, I'm sorry. Thank you. 00:24:12
Magic button some here I don't know. 00:24:14
It's on. You just talk into it. Have to talk me into it. We can hear you, but you need this. If I do this right, so the the long 00:24:17
time. OK, backing up just a little bit. First of all, my name is Judy Cole. I am a resident of Pacific Girl and I'd like to 00:24:23
personally thank. 00:24:28
The Story poll committee for moving forward in such an expedient manner, I didn't realize you would be on the agenda because it 00:24:35
was an agenda. 00:24:40
But I appreciate the update and one of the reasons I appreciate the update is that the story polls can have a significant effect. 00:24:46
On properties here in PG. 00:24:55
And currently there's a property that has. 00:24:57
A lot of story pulls up that then they blow down in the wind. 00:25:01
So I've been looking at it closely and realize that so many people in the community may not have seen the story polls that were 00:25:07
placed. 00:25:12
And what criteria was being used to place the story polls? 00:25:18
But to me, from what Commissioner Sawyer said, today they're doing an extensive researching of this project and looking into 00:25:23
certification, for example, using someone. 00:25:28
I would assume would be a civil engineer type company to establish that the height of the poles etcetera. So I think you're on the 00:25:34
right track. 00:25:39
And I want to thank you very much. 00:25:44
And I think there's it's, is it Mr. Commissioner Cooper? Mm-hmm. Yes, Thank you. 00:25:47
That's it. 00:25:53
Thank you. Thank you. 00:25:54
Thanks. 00:25:56
Is there anyone else in the audience who would like to speak? 00:26:00
If not, is there anybody on the Zoom or whatever we call it, Mr. 00:26:04
Campbell, We have Mike Gibbs. 00:26:10
I believe he did raise his hand. 00:26:13
Welcome. 00:26:15
Good evening, Planning Commission Chairman Lily and everybody else else. Appreciate your service. 00:26:19
This is Mike Gibbs. I'm a member of the Pacific Grove Economic Development. 00:26:26
Commission. I'm here talking on my own behalf. 00:26:30
And I would like to 2nd Mr. Tuminello's remarks about Neighborhood Voices. If you haven't seen it, go to it. 00:26:33
And they're they're building a referendum to put on the state ballot in the next election. It's critical that you vote to overturn 00:26:40
the state mandate. 00:26:44
However, I'm here to talk about something else. The Economic Development Commission for Pacific Grove is beginning a. 00:26:49
Long and probably arduous journey to help think about what the strategic, economic, strategic goals are for the city. 00:26:55
And I would encourage everybody to attend Economic Development Commission meetings. The next one is September the 7th. 00:27:04
That's a Thursday 1st Thursday at 4:00 PM and basically the, you know, the broadview is to make Pacific Grove one of the most 00:27:11
wonderful and unique cities in the world. Even better. 00:27:17
A place to live, workshop and visit. 00:27:23
And part of the research for this and this, I think the Planning Commission will be interested in this. 00:27:26
There have been a number of studies about cities in the category of Pacific Grove. 00:27:31
You know great little places to live and work and visit. 00:27:36
And it turns out there's a list of seven things that make it a really. 00:27:39
A a great thing and I think we're going to try to. 00:27:43
Focus on these as the in in our planning process. 00:27:46
The first is a greater awareness of local entrepreneurship. 00:27:50
And how do we support it as a city? 00:27:54
#2 Working with local community colleges like Hartnell, MPC and. 00:27:56
And others to encourage entrepreneurship. 00:28:02
As a career path. 00:28:05
#3 Success Item number 3 for these great vibrant cities train young people and skills that major employers. 00:28:07
And use and demand. 00:28:14
Unique item number four is focus on unique innovative industries and we have a couple here in a mini here in Pacific Grove that we 00:28:17
need to continue and grow. 00:28:22
Success factor #5 is really pay attention to refine the central value proposition. There'll be a lot of discussion. 00:28:27
About what that value proposition is, specifically what makes it such a great place, there's a variety of issues. 00:28:35
But I think among the things that the features that we have is the 4 miles of shoreline between us, a celimar and the aquarium. 00:28:41
We have the lighthouse, which is one of the oldest functioning in in the United States. We have a wonderful museum. 00:28:48
We have the only Carnegie library left in Monterey County. Don't know if you knew that. 00:28:55
And who doesn't play golf, or at least like to go out and walk on the golf course? What a great place. 00:29:00
Item number six is just recognizing importance of arts and museums. 00:29:05
In Pacific Grove and item number seven for success. 00:29:09
Is to constantly evaluate this portfolio of assets. 00:29:12
These features that people love about Pacific Grove and keep them up on the front and advertise and market the heck out of those 00:29:16
things when we get a chance. So Planning Commission, you have a lot of work ahead of you. I appreciate your time and thank you for 00:29:21
all being here. 00:29:26
Thank you. 00:29:32
Indian Lawrence and Dahmer welcome. 00:29:37
Thank you. 00:29:42
I would have expected a planner, Campbell. 00:29:44
To have corrected his minutes and issued an errata sheet. 00:29:49
Which they were very much an omission, and I wrote a letter to the Planning Commission and to him. 00:29:54
And that didn't happen. 00:30:01
And. 00:30:03
We have. 00:30:05
Small enough action minutes. 00:30:06
That it, they need to be accurate. 00:30:11
Transparent. 00:30:14
And in as much detail as action minutes. 00:30:16
Can give. 00:30:20
Which includes public comment. 00:30:21
Unfortunately, I'm kind of noticing that. 00:30:25
That his omissions on the minutes have happened on. 00:30:27
Items that the Planning Commission did not agree with the staff recommendation. 00:30:32
And on items that unfortunately I'm going to take this personally that I have commented. 00:30:38
Adversely on. 00:30:44
And I will want to pull. 00:30:46
The July 13th. 00:30:50
Minutes. 00:30:52
As they have not been corrected on the consent agenda. 00:30:53
And I just want to. 00:30:57
Reiterate. 00:31:00
That we need. 00:31:01
Detailed transparency and accuracy. 00:31:03
And. 00:31:08
That has to happen and we don't know what's going to turn up of Ohh. Well, we corrected them. Well, what does? We corrected them. 00:31:09
Mean. 00:31:17
So I would like to know and I'd like to encourage you. 00:31:18
To follow up on this. 00:31:23
And thank you. 00:31:25
Commissioner Sawyer for the lovely. 00:31:27
Story Polls Subcommittee. 00:31:30
Update which was impromptu and and much appreciated because this is something that. 00:31:35
Is just it's it's a wonderful way to move forward. 00:31:41
In all those ways, thank you very much. 00:31:46
Thank you. 00:31:50
We have Tony Chiani. 00:31:53
Welcome. 00:31:55
Good evening, Commissioners staff. 00:31:59
Agenda item 5A. 00:32:02
About public comment as beg. 00:32:05
Despite what was said earlier. 00:32:08
The recommended action. 00:32:10
Is to receive correspondence. 00:32:12
But it is unclear what correspondence, if any. 00:32:15
The commissioners. 00:32:18
It's not published. 00:32:21
Not only should the Commissioners know. 00:32:22
For sure. 00:32:25
What public comments were sent? 00:32:26
So should the general public. 00:32:29
On a separate item. 00:32:32
The Environmental Enhancement Fund has been part of the city's annual budget. 00:32:34
For many years. 00:32:39
The funding sources appear to. 00:32:40
Reflect grants. 00:32:42
Or private contributions. 00:32:44
Or environmental mitigation funds. 00:32:46
I believe there should be a clear. 00:32:50
And simple accounting. 00:32:52
Of the funds income. 00:32:54
And expenses? 00:32:56
As money in, money out. 00:32:58
Where it comes from? 00:33:01
And where it's spent. 00:33:04
I also believe the Planning Commission. 00:33:06
Should be responsible for that fund. 00:33:09
Including a Citizens Advisory committee. 00:33:12
And I recommend. 00:33:15
That it should be codified. 00:33:17
With a mission based. 00:33:19
On the General plan. 00:33:21
And local coastal programs, conservation policies and goals. 00:33:23
Not as a public. 00:33:29
Public works Capital funding source. 00:33:33
#3 00:33:37
I'm concerned about. 00:33:39
The Environmental Quality of Crespi Pond. 00:33:41
And the surrounding wetlands. 00:33:44
I believe the Planning Commission. 00:33:46
Should take the leadership. 00:33:48
For the protection and restoration. 00:33:49
Of the Crispy Pond wetland. 00:33:52
Frankly. 00:33:55
I believe the Public Works Department. 00:33:56
Has a difficult role when it comes to managing. 00:33:58
The city's natural resources. 00:34:01
Or belt resources. 00:34:03
Like the state of California. 00:34:05
Parks and Recreation Department. 00:34:08
PG. 00:34:10
Should consider. 00:34:11
Some a similar mission. 00:34:13
The California mission is. 00:34:15
To provide. 00:34:18
For. 00:34:19
This is a quote to provide for the help. 00:34:20
Inspiration. 00:34:22
Education. 00:34:24
Of the people of California. 00:34:25
By helping preserve the states. 00:34:27
Extraordinary biological diversity. 00:34:30
Protecting its most valued natural and cultural resources and creating opportunities. 00:34:33
For high quality outdoor recommendation. 00:34:39
A Solamar State Park is a good example for that. 00:34:42
Nevertheless. 00:34:46
Crispy pond requires A conservation plan. 00:34:48
To improve its ecology. 00:34:51
And overall health? 00:34:53
Please do that. Thank you. 00:34:55
Thank you. 00:34:58
David O'Neill, welcome. 00:35:03
I'm speaking to you tonight is a local full-time Peninsula resident. I also serve on the board of the. 00:35:09
Carmel Residents Association and volunteer for Meals on Wheels and with the Criminal Police Department. 00:35:15
I'd like to affirm the previous comment regarding our neighbourhood voices. 00:35:21
I belong to a strong group in Carmel by the Sea who support our neighbourhood voices as well. 00:35:25
Today I noticed that the World Atlas named Pacific Grove and Carmela's two of the seven most beautiful towns in California. 00:35:31
Unfortunately, some developers have been working hard to disguise their greens. 00:35:40
Behind the roof of affordable housing. 00:35:44
And taking away local rights in the process. 00:35:47
The state constitution gives municipalities the right to govern their own development. 00:35:50
But now we can't stop developers from building whatever they want. 00:35:55
Wherever they want. 00:35:59
Without even contributing to new transit. 00:36:00
Parkings Boulder Rd. 00:36:03
What will our communities look like if developers are allowed to do as they please? 00:36:06
If the state is allowed to control this. 00:36:11
What else will they try to control? 00:36:13
All of this is justified because our population is supposedly going to explode. 00:36:16
But the California State auditor? 00:36:22
Found that the outrageous population projections were based on false data. 00:36:24
Now, affordable housing is important. 00:36:30
But we can't turn our local planning over to private profiteers. 00:36:32
We are required to fulfill our plan for the housing element to avoid state penalties without developers from enacting the builders 00:36:37
remedy to build without any restrictions. 00:36:42
But I ask you to alter protect your community by joining our Neighborhood Voices. 00:36:47
It's a coalition of thousands of California neighborhood leaders. 00:36:52
Creating an initiative to be put on the 24 ballot. 00:36:55
The purported by activists. 00:36:59
Person. 00:37:01
Content politicians and nonprofits. 00:37:01
All trying to put local power back in your hands. 00:37:04
In the hand of local citizens. 00:37:09
Who love their communities and want the best for them. 00:37:11
Thank you all for your service. 00:37:14
Thank you. 00:37:17
We have Marsha. OK, welcome Marsha. 00:37:21
Thank you, Mr. Chair. 00:37:26
Apologize. 00:37:30
Just lost that Marsha. 00:37:32
Jumping around, there we go. 00:37:36
Are you there? Yes. 00:37:39
Thank you, Mr. Chair and Commissioners. 00:37:41
I want to echo the comments, the eloquent comments made by Mr. Tim Anello. 00:37:46
Mr. O'Neill. 00:37:54
And Mr. Gibbs, regarding our neighbourhood. 00:37:55
Voices, I think it's it's very important, particularly in PG, a charter city. 00:38:00
To. 00:38:07
To fight for. 00:38:10
Local land use. 00:38:12
Central planning never works. 00:38:16
The Soviet Union is a perfect example of the failures of. 00:38:19
Of central planning. 00:38:25
I hope. 00:38:28
People who are zooming this meeting and yourselves. 00:38:30
Will look into. 00:38:34
The website. 00:38:36
And. 00:38:38
And in terms of. 00:38:39
Affordable housing. 00:38:42
As others have noted, it seems like it's motherhood and apple pie. 00:38:45
Kind of front. 00:38:52
For. 00:38:55
You know developers. 00:38:57
And trade unions and their Initially it was to be. 00:38:59
Implemented because of. 00:39:07
Growing populations and massive new jobs? Well, that's turned out to be false. 00:39:10
And and though. 00:39:16
Affordable housing may be needed. 00:39:18
On a on a More. 00:39:21
Reduced level. 00:39:23
We have to keep in mind that any time we take grants from the state. 00:39:26
It means we have to play by the states rules. 00:39:31
And so local. 00:39:34
People may not be eligible. May not act, They'll be eligible. 00:39:36
But. 00:39:41
Typically what will happen is that. 00:39:42
Anyone can apply for affordable housing who resides in California, and then there'll be a lottery. 00:39:45
And. 00:39:53
So I think people are misled. 00:39:55
By, you know, the possibility of actually being able to get into the affordable housing and PG just because you're a longtime 00:39:58
resident. 00:40:04
So I think it's really important to return. 00:40:10
Local. 00:40:13
Uh, power to our local representatives and boards. 00:40:14
And commissions like yourselves. 00:40:19
Thank you very much. 00:40:22
Thank you. 00:40:24
We have Lisa Chiani. 00:40:28
Welcome. 00:40:30
Thank you. 00:40:33
I just want to add to the expressions of appreciation for UH Commissioner Sawyers update on the story poll. 00:40:35
Ordinance because. 00:40:46
And that's it's been a long time coming and and it's so very needed. 00:40:48
So it's it's good to hear about the progress with that. 00:40:53
And umm. 00:40:57
And I also want to express appreciation for her. 00:40:59
Continued. 00:41:04
Attention to this situation at the Great Tide Pool restoration, trail, restoration area and trail. 00:41:09
It it's really shameful that the city has let this go on for seven months. 00:41:17
The. The. 00:41:24
Public public safety issue there. 00:41:26
Commissioner Sawyer pointed out not only. 00:41:29
Now now we're back to rebar sticking out but. 00:41:33
No warning that that. 00:41:38
That nice DG trail that starts out from the South side or yeah, South side of the great tide pool. 00:41:41
And goes goes along. 00:41:49
There's no warning that it abruptly is going to drop off. 00:41:51
Umm. 00:41:54
So. 00:41:55
It it's just hard to understand. 00:41:56
How this could go on for seven months. 00:41:59
And then furthermore the the failure to just put back up. 00:42:02
The rod and cable fencing to protect the dune restoration and the endangered species. 00:42:08
In our local coastal program. 00:42:18
Staff when that was being developed. 00:42:21
Really didn't want to protect anything more than endangered species and here we're not even protecting those. There will be 00:42:25
something done about this in the. 00:42:30
In the wildlife protection. 00:42:36
Umm. 00:42:38
Amendments that are being proposed. 00:42:40
For our LCP, but in any case. 00:42:42
I know it's you. You've said now it's going to be on your next agenda, but it shouldn't even be waiting for that. 00:42:48
Public works should be on that right now. 00:42:56
And I, if we don't have a provision for that in our LCP, we really need to do something about that fast. 00:42:59
Alright, thank you. 00:43:07
Thank you. 00:43:09
Even no further questions online. 00:43:12
OK. Thank you. And then I will. 00:43:14
Close that item or we'll move on to the consent agenda. 00:43:17
The consent agenda deals with routine and non controversial matters. 00:43:21
May include actions on resolutions, ordinances, and other public hearings for which testimony is not anticipated. 00:43:25
We have 4 items on the consent agenda this evening. 00:43:34
The first two items are for information only under item 6A. 00:43:37
Is web links about community land trusts that I? 00:43:43
Came across and. 00:43:47
Requested and. 00:43:49
Director Wyatt was gracious enough to put this. 00:43:51
Information on the agenda for information. 00:43:54
Perhaps we will consider that when we get into the housing development element. 00:43:58
Discussion in October. 00:44:04
Under Item 6B is an updated Planning Commission 2023 Work Plan, which. 00:44:06
We update every month. 00:44:11
The third item 7A is minutes from our June 8th, 2023 meeting. 00:44:13
And the 4th is minutes as well. Item 7B minutes from our July 13th, 2023 meeting. 00:44:18
Both the minutes require some action or something along those lines I suppose. 00:44:25
So would any. 00:44:32
Commissioner would like to remove any of these items from the consent agenda. Commissioner Sawyer. 00:44:33
I would like to pull and continue. 00:44:40
7A and 7B until. 00:44:45
September or October until they are corrected. 00:44:49
OK. Those two items are pulled. 00:44:54
Does it? 00:44:57
Is there any other polling from the Consent agenda? Vice Chair Murphy? 00:44:58
If I could ask Commissioner Sawyer. 00:45:03
I I think under our rules. 00:45:06
You know, minor, straightforward connections, corrections to the minutes. 00:45:10
And could. 00:45:15
Could be done now. 00:45:16
And I wonder if uh. 00:45:19
It makes sense to try to do that. 00:45:22
These are not minor corrections. 00:45:24
Right. 00:45:29
Any other? 00:45:31
Commissioner, wish to pull it. 00:45:33
One of the two remaining items. 00:45:35
Alright, would any staff member like to remove either of the remaining two items? 00:45:38
OK. 00:45:44
Would any member of the audience? 00:45:45
Either in person or remotely. 00:45:47
Like to remove either other. 00:45:50
Either of the two items remaining meaning on the consent agenda. 00:45:52
Hearing none, it looks like we have. 00:45:57
Lisa Chan, Sorry, hand up. 00:46:01
I didn't see the hand. Ohh, there's three hands. Ohh my. 00:46:03
Uh. 00:46:07
Lisa Chiani. 00:46:10
Yeah. 00:46:13
I'm muted. 00:46:13
Can you hear me? 00:46:15
Yes. 00:46:17
Ohh OK I wanted to pull 6A. 00:46:18
Six day, alright? 00:46:22
We have intolerance and Dumber. 00:46:26
I just wanted to make very certain that 7B is pulled. 00:46:31
Thank you very much. 00:46:36
Thank you. 00:46:38
That looks to be it. 00:46:43
All right. So the only item remaining on the consent agenda is the Planning Commission 2023 Work plan. 00:46:45
So may I have a motion to approve the one item on the consent agenda? 00:46:53
I move that we. 00:46:59
Approve item. 00:47:01
6B The only item remaining on the consent agenda so that the motion by Vice Chair Murphy is to approve the consent agenda with. 00:47:02
Item 6B through second To that motion I will second. 00:47:10
And Commissioner Zinski seconded that motion. 00:47:14
Is there any further discussion? 00:47:17
OK. 00:47:21
If not, Mr. Campbell, would you please call the roll? 00:47:22
Vice Chair Murphy. 00:47:26
Aye. 00:47:28
Chairman Izinski. 00:47:30
Aye, chair Lily. 00:47:31
Aye. 00:47:33
Commissioner Sawyer. 00:47:35
Aye. 00:47:36
Commissioner Davison. 00:47:37
Aye. 00:47:38
Commissioner Kubica. 00:47:39
We have six eyes, 0 nays and one absent. The motion passes. 00:47:41
All right. Let me raise a point of order. Well, first of all, let me reiterate. 00:47:48
Mr. Campbell's comment that the motion passed. 00:47:54
6. 00:47:58
To zero with one absence. That means there are were three items pulled from the consent agenda. 00:48:00
I believe that was. 00:48:07
6A7A and 7B. 00:48:09
Do we need this may be a question for legal counsel. Do we need to? 00:48:13
Pass a motion on 7A and B because. 00:48:18
Commissioners Sawyer. 00:48:23
In her comments said that they should be removed and continued. 00:48:25
Until a later meeting. So do we need to pass a motion to that effect or is that just? 00:48:29
What do we do? 00:48:36
Well, it depends on what the Commission wants to do. 00:48:37
Would be a motion, I suppose, that could be made. 00:48:42
To continue those items. 00:48:46
To a future meeting, either a date certain or to be determined. 00:48:48
And then you could vote on that motion and if that motion fails, then you would consider them tonight. 00:48:52
All right. 00:48:59
So they have been removed. As far as as Item 6A, I I would just talk at that. 00:49:00
Further down in the agenda, I think that's just a a matter of discussion and doesn't need any action on it. 00:49:06
But 7A and B appear that they may, and that's why I asked the question. 00:49:12
So I would last like to ask what the pleasure of the Commission is regarding that Commissioner Sawyer. 00:49:17
You pulled them. Do you have a a motion or a comment or something? 00:49:23
I would like to make a motion to pull and continue. 00:49:27
The minutes for June 8th and the minutes for July 13th until. 00:49:32
They are corrected and I'm hoping that we can get that done by September. 00:49:38
And that would be September 14th. 00:49:46
Correct. So would you like to make that part of your motion that they be? 00:49:48
Corrected and presented for approval by September 14th, the 7th or on the September 14th meeting. I'll amend that. It's a friendly 00:49:53
amendment and I accept it. Thank you. So the motion then is to continue item 7A and 7B to September 14th. 00:50:02
That the those are minutes that would be corrected. Is there a second to that motion? 00:50:11
Seconded by Mr. or Commissioner Kubica. 00:50:16
So is there discussion on this matter? 00:50:20
Vice Chair Murphy. 00:50:24
8. 00:50:26
I guess I wonder how this correction will miraculously happen. 00:50:27
And I would ask again. 00:50:31
Umm. 00:50:33
Whether this is something we could just hand off tonight rather than putting it off. 00:50:35
Do you want me to get started on all the corrections that need to be done on each of them? They're pretty major. 00:50:40
They're not insignificant if we if we don't and and I would be more than happy to work with the staff to help correct these 00:50:47
because I have written an e-mail. 00:50:53
Last month correcting the one and it did not happen. 00:50:59
Because we have some major omissions. 00:51:05
And corrections. 00:51:07
OK. Thank you. 00:51:10
OK, is there any other discussion? I I I suppose this becomes a question again as I say my favorite words have become what is the 00:51:11
pleasure of the Commission regarding this? 00:51:15
It sounds like. 00:51:20
Commissioner Sawyer. 00:51:23
Is ready, willing and able to work with staff to. 00:51:24
I'll insert my impression quickly. 00:51:28
Make these changes so that they can be docketed and brought forward to us and so that there's no further delay. 00:51:30
Because I don't. 00:51:36
Like that there's. 00:51:37
Delay. 00:51:38
And these minutes. But they have to be accurate too. 00:51:39
So. 00:51:42
If if there's no further discussion, then I I think we have a motion on the floor. It was and it was seconded by. 00:51:44
Mr. 00:51:52
By Commissioner Kubica, So we have a motion on the floor. 00:51:53
Do you have further comment? 00:51:57
And at the risk of putting. 00:52:00
Staff on the spot. 00:52:02
Umm. 00:52:04
Is what, Commissioner? 00:52:06
Sorry is proposing. 00:52:07
Does that make sense to you guys? 00:52:11
As long as I I think one of the. 00:52:15
Responses that I've given both to. 00:52:20
Chair Lily and Commissioner. 00:52:23
Sawyer. Is that as long as? 00:52:26
Are corrections. 00:52:28
Are in line with action minutes. 00:52:30
I think one of the things that's very important to recognize. 00:52:33
Is that we are now mirroring what the City Council does with their minutes. 00:52:36
And. 00:52:42
Giving and a little bit more so the only things that really could be. 00:52:43
And a little bit more. 00:52:48
The boats. 00:52:50
No, it in June the order of the minutes is incorrect. 00:52:51
There's multiple multiple issues. 00:52:58
And I would be more than happy to sit down and talk with you and we can correct it. It won't take very long. If you sending me the 00:53:00
corrections, I'll sit down with the clerk, the city clerk and we'll we'll go over them with her, OK. Cause I I have sent them to 00:53:05
you previously and they were not corrected. 00:53:10
And that's a concern. 00:53:16
I just want our minutes to be correct and again, I I just want to make sure that what? 00:53:17
Is being asked is appropriate for these resident about action minutes. It was about the order in which things were heard. 00:53:22
Yeah. 00:53:33
Send that to you. 00:53:34
Sure. Thank you. Thank you at this point. 00:53:35
People in. 00:53:39
Involved with this and made their point. So if there's no further discussion then Mr. Campbell, can you please call the roll? 00:53:40
Yes, we have, Commissioner Sawyer. 00:53:52
Aye. 00:53:55
Sure, Kubica. 00:53:57
Sorry, chair, chair, Commissioner Sawyer, Commissioner Cooper, sorry about that. 00:53:58
Commissioner Nuzenski. 00:54:07
Aye. 00:54:09
Point of order. How did Commissioner Kubica voted? He voted. Aye. Ohh. He did. I'm sorry. Yeah. 00:54:09
Commissioner Davison. 00:54:16
Aye. 00:54:18
Chair Murphy. 00:54:20
Sure Sawyer, Lily. Sorry. 00:54:23
All over the place. 00:54:27
With Six Eyes 0 nays 1. Absent the motion to continue the minutes from July or June 8th and July 13th. 00:54:30
To September 14th passes. 00:54:40
OK. 00:54:42
Then the motion, as Mr. Campbell said, passes and I look forward to that being on our agenda. 00:54:43
Properly corrected on September 14th. 00:54:51
That means then that Item 6A I will put down under item. 00:54:56
Let me see if I can get this straight. 00:55:02
I believe that would be 7B. 00:55:04
Hmm. 00:55:07
Order that would still be on consent. 00:55:08
He. 00:55:11
8B8B, I'm sorry. OK. So that will be 8B. 00:55:12
All right. 00:55:19
So 6A becomes 8B. 00:55:20
We are now to the regular agenda. This evening we have. 00:55:27
The draft Cannabis Ordinance review. 00:55:31
And. 00:55:36
This is an item that. 00:55:37
Goes back to May 17th. 00:55:40
2023, when the City Council reviewed these ordinances. 00:55:43
Answered a number of questions posed by the staff. 00:55:48
But then referred both ordinances to the Planning Commission for review and comment. 00:55:52
And so we have this before us this evening. I also believe that staff has prepared. 00:55:58
An agenda? 00:56:05
Item for this I think it's. They have a. 00:56:06
PowerPoint. 00:56:12
They. 00:56:14
Staff without. 00:56:15
Stealing Mr. Campbell's Thunder, are you? Suppose he wants to present it? 00:56:17
Proposes that we look at. 00:56:21
Chiefly 3 issues and and certainly they are important issues. 00:56:23
I also myself went through both ordinances because of the mandate from the. 00:56:28
City Council and looked at both ordinances and came up with 10 pages of questions. 00:56:34
And I. 00:56:39
Structured them. 00:56:41
Along the lines of what? 00:56:42
Do you want to do not really take into position, but obviously saw? 00:56:44
Discrepancies or issues that needed to be addressed. 00:56:49
And that included the three items that are. 00:56:51
In the. 00:56:54
Staffs. 00:56:56
Report this evening as well. So with that, Mister Campbell, would you like to proceed with your presentation? And then we'll go 00:56:57
from there. 00:57:01
Well, thank you. 00:57:05
Chair Lily and Commissioners. 00:57:06
Uh. 00:57:08
Back again before this is a Draft Cannabis Zoning Ordinance review. 00:57:10
Umm. 00:57:14
And as Chair Lily mentioned tonight, the review is to review the proposed draft Cannabis Zoning Ordinance and provide the 00:57:16
following recommendations focusing mainly on these three. 00:57:21
Uh. 00:57:27
With regards to zoning. 00:57:28
One which specific zones? 00:57:30
Good. 00:57:32
Should cannabis retailers be allowed? 00:57:33
To Should any additional separation requirements beyond the 1000 foot from schools, daycares and youth centers be recommended for 00:57:35
cannabis business? 00:57:39
And should additional parameters be considered on delivery only medicinal canvas retailers beyond proposed limitations? 00:57:43
And the industrial commercial zones? 00:57:51
On December 7th, 2022, City Council directed the City Manager and City Attorney to create a Cannabis Licensing Program consistent 00:57:55
with voter approved Measure M. 00:58:00
On May 17th, 2023, the Draft Cannabis Ordinance was presented to City Council for concept review. 00:58:06
At that time, City Council directed the Planning Commission to review the proposed zoning ordinance to address cannibal cannabis 00:58:12
retail locations, potential separation requirements beyond the 1000 feet from schools, daycares and youth centres. 00:58:18
And additional limitations and requirements for delivery only medicinal cannabis retailers. 00:58:24
On June 8th, the Planning Commission of 2023, the Planning Commission began the discussion to address the City Council's request. 00:58:32
The Planning Commission requested additional maps to clarify zoning districts and a better map of the cannabis retail business 00:58:41
buffer zones, and it was continued to a later date. 00:58:46
On November 8th of 2022 is a little bit of background. Pacific Grove Voters approved Measure M&N at the general election. Measure 00:58:54
M was an advisory measure that posed the question should the Pacific Grove City Council be authorized to amend the Municipal Code 00:59:01
to allow retail sales of medical or recreational recreational cannabis limited to one single location within the city? 00:59:08
At a location no closer than 1000 feet from any existing licensed daycare preschools youth center. 00:59:16
And schools to engage in commercial cannabis activities. 00:59:23
Measure N established the tax on cannabis businesses at the rate of 6% of gross receipts from the retail sale of cannabis. 00:59:26
Another important part to remember is that coming up in January 1st 2024 we have SB1186 which is medicinal medicinal cannabis 00:59:34
patients rights. 00:59:41
To Access Act. 00:59:48
It. 00:59:50
Requires after January 1st, 2024, the California cities and counties be required to allow retail sale by delivery. 00:59:50
Of cannabis, of medicinal cannabis. And so that's. 00:59:58
Strictly medicinal and and delivery. 01:00:02
And this ordinance and ordinances that exist that prohibit or have the effect of prohibiting the establishment of of physical 01:00:06
premises. 01:00:09
From which retail sale by delivery of medicinal cannabis is conducted, will be in violation of SB1186. 01:00:13
And so, in addition to the one storefront retail location contained by Measure M, the proposed ordinance will allow for cannabis 01:00:20
retailers that. 01:00:24
Operate his delivery only and only engage in the sale of medicinal. 01:00:29
Cannabis. 01:00:33
Umm. 01:00:37
And. 01:00:40
This. 01:00:40
The the again, the Planning Commission's consideration will be with. 01:00:42
With specific zones, there's PC recommended retailers. 01:00:47
Should any additional separation requirements be recommended for cannabis business? 01:00:51
And should additional parameters be considered for delivery only retailers with no walk in businesses beyond limitations and 01:00:55
industrial commercial zones? 01:00:59
I'd like to. 01:01:04
At this point. 01:01:05
Invite. 01:01:07
The city attorney. 01:01:09
Brian Pierick and Erica Vega if they would like to comment on this at all. 01:01:11
Yes, thank you. Aaron, can you go back to the slides at the end where the the questions are presented and and and the 01:01:18
recommendations. So you did mention what the questions were. So perhaps you can collaborate a little bit on the slide that you've 01:01:24
got up now. 01:01:30
Sure. The which specific zones does the PC recommend retailers be allowed? 01:01:39
Umm. 01:01:45
The staff recommended cannabis be allowed in the following zones that the. 01:01:46
Downtown. 01:01:50
Commercial. 01:01:51
Light commercial, Heavy commercial and Forest Hill commercial. 01:01:52
Does not recommend the C1T or the commercial hotel condominium district. It would be pretty much restricted anyway by that 1000 01:01:57
foot buffer zone. 01:02:02
And the visitor commercial and it's. 01:02:09
Basically, the Monterey Aquarium offices are already there, so it's not likely that we would. 01:02:12
Change that, use. 01:02:19
Do you want me to continue with those, Brian? 01:02:24
You know, we can do this one at a time. So it's just that when you went through the slides earlier, I don't know that you. 01:02:27
Elaborated on what the staff recommendation was. So then. 01:02:33
The second question is your next slide. 01:02:36
Should any additional separation requirements be recommended for a cannabis business? 01:02:39
We were looking at. 01:02:44
Other. 01:02:47
Potential institutions that that may benefit from that zone drug and alcohol rehabilitation facilities. The staff felt that that 01:02:48
it was important to separate. 01:02:53
Those facilities from Retail Cannabis. 01:03:00
High density residential. Both this actually. The next three have a lot more with public safety. 01:03:03
The safe parking program locations and beach locations that but all of these would basically increase they could increase Police 01:03:12
Department in enforcement. 01:03:18
The latter being the closer to the the beach would be encouraging or? 01:03:24
When we. 01:03:31
Had a discussion with with members of the Police Department. They they felt that. 01:03:33
It would increase cannabis use on beaches and trails. So these four additional areas that we think would we would recommend some 01:03:39
degree of separation doesn't necessarily have to be that 1000 feet, but it could be to the pleasure of the of the Commission to 01:03:46
discuss that. 01:03:52
What may be appropriate for those those different? 01:04:00
Those different institutions. 01:04:04
The Should additional parameters be considered for delivery only retailers with no walk in business beyond limitations to 01:04:08
industrial commercial zones, we we recommended that. 01:04:13
Not. 01:04:19
To have the. 01:04:20
Delivery only in our commercial districts and to some degree I mean that we do have. 01:04:22
We do have things like storage facilities. 01:04:28
But these they? 01:04:31
They have preserved their storefronts and we would recommend not. 01:04:32
Directing them to our storefronts since they if they were delivery only and no foot traffic, we would want to for. 01:04:39
The preservation of our storefronts promoting foot traffic. 01:04:47
And promoting economic development, keep keep the delivery only of the medical medicinal cannabis. 01:04:50
Out of the commercial district. 01:04:59
So those are the three questions that that the staff is asking from the Commission, the other thing I wanted to mention. 01:05:02
Is that the scope of the review by the Planning Commission as requested by the City Council, as I understand it is for the zoning? 01:05:11
Ordinance, since that is within the scope of the Planning Commissions charge. 01:05:21
Whereas the other ordinance is the licensing ordinance, which is not a land use issue, it's a licensing issue. So. 01:05:27
That would not be one within the scope of the Planning Commission's charge. 01:05:35
So perhaps we should stop there for a moment, and. 01:05:41
Because I I know there may be some questions about the the scope of your review and we might want to. 01:05:45
Get that? 01:05:51
Out front before. 01:05:52
We'll go on to the rest of the discussion. 01:05:54
Are you? Is your? 01:06:00
Presentation completed, Mr. Campbell. Thank you. Yes, Sir. Thank you. Before we proceed, let me briefly. 01:06:02
Review our rules this evening and then we can. 01:06:09
Get to. 01:06:12
Mr. Pierrie's comments. 01:06:13
After we. 01:06:16
Review the agenda reports and apparently review our charge. 01:06:18
I will then open the hearing for public comments. 01:06:24
Those wishing to speak speak will have 3 minutes each. 01:06:26
I will then close the hearing to further comment from the general public so that we can go through the draft ordinances. 01:06:30
Discuss and make recommendations to the City Council. 01:06:37
I'll begin. 01:06:42
In response to Mr. Perich's comment, I listened to the tapes of the Planning Commission on May 17th. 01:06:43
And. 01:06:50
I was also there. I think, in all due respect to Mr. Purick, I have a different opinion about what? 01:06:51
City Council asked. They asked us to review both ordinances. 01:06:57
So to me that's a pretty open-ended thing and as I went through these both ordinances line by line. 01:07:01
I found a number of deficiencies that. 01:07:07
Whether we correct them? 01:07:10
Somebody's got to correct them because they they have to be. 01:07:12
And this goes far beyond. 01:07:15
I think just. 01:07:18
Selecting what zones these things ought to be and for example, who should select? 01:07:19
The. 01:07:26
The the cannabis dealer, how should they be be selected? 01:07:27
And some of the language in the ordinances. 01:07:31
Appear to appears to infringe upon the use. 01:07:34
Permit authority of the City of this Planning Commission later when we reviewed all of the. 01:07:40
The so-called local licensee so. 01:07:45
I I think we need to at least. 01:07:48
Look at the broader picture. Instead of looking at one or two things and then saying we we ought to go home, that that's my view. 01:07:50
Perhaps you disagreed. 01:07:54
I'm certainly willing to listen to. 01:07:59
Or certainly wasn't. Consider each other's opinions about this so we can come to a conclusion. 01:08:03
So who is who would like to speak? 01:08:09
Vice Chair Murphy. 01:08:11
Well, again, again, very respectfully, Mr. Mr. Burke, I I listened to the tape. 01:08:14
And and the Council was clear, that was asking us. 01:08:20
To review both ordinances. 01:08:24
I understand that title 11 is not usually. 01:08:26
Under our charge. 01:08:30
And some of those items. 01:08:32
And frankly, I don't care about one way or the other. But they did. They did ask us. 01:08:34
As as. 01:08:39
And I I. 01:08:41
Don't I recall that both you and then city manager? 01:08:42
I've been Harvey were asked clarifying questions and you both said. 01:08:46
That what the Council asked was for the Planning Commission to review both both ordinances. 01:08:51
And and if if my memory is faulty I I apologize but I don't. 01:08:56
I don't think it is. 01:09:04
And as the chair. 01:09:06
Pointed out there are some areas of overlap. 01:09:07
In the ordinances that I think are not are not clear and would benefit by some. 01:09:12
Some clarification. 01:09:18
My hope would be that we spend. 01:09:21
Umm. 01:09:23
You know, not much time on Title 11. 01:09:25
But when you do do address. 01:09:27
Those. 01:09:29
Those pieces that. 01:09:30
The. 01:09:32
Seem to relate to and perhaps conflict with the title three that is our. 01:09:33
Our usual. 01:09:39
Territory. 01:09:41
Thank you. 01:09:42
Thank you. 01:09:43
Any other comments, Commissioner Sawyer? 01:09:45
I looked through the general plan in the chapter that has to do with land use because I was concerned about what we were being 01:09:49
charged with. I was at the meeting as well. 01:09:54
When the City Council did give us a charge, they asked us to look at. 01:10:00
Both of these ordinances and when I looked at the general plan, when I looked at page 18, it talked about alcohol sales downtown. 01:10:04
And one of the things that it did state was. 01:10:11
Needed to make sure that the quality of life and general public safety in Pacific Grove was maintained. 01:10:19
Then it also talked about on page 24 non conforming uses. 01:10:26
In order to grant any use permit, the Planning Commission must make the finding. 01:10:32
That the use or building applied for will not be detrimental to persons or property in the neighbourhood or to the general welfare 01:10:38
of the city. 01:10:42
I think that gives us a little bit. 01:10:48
More perspective and allows us to look a little bit broader because. 01:10:51
As I went through both of these ordinances, I also had. 01:10:57
A number of questions as there were some deficiencies and some overlap. So it would be helpful I think to have our eyes on it just 01:11:00
to ask questions and to quickly go through. 01:11:06
Areas that. 01:11:12
Aren't. 01:11:13
Important. 01:11:14
Thank you. 01:11:15
Thank you. 01:11:16
If it. 01:11:17
Commissioner, I mean Mr. Campbell, you, you. 01:11:18
Seemed to have something you wanted to say, so I'll recognize you. I appreciate that. 01:11:22
In preparing for this staff report, one thing that I did, I did go back and and watch on it. 01:11:27
Over and over and you you are correct where at the end of the meeting when they were. 01:11:34
Giving direction, they said. Let's give both to both of these ordinances to the Planning Commission. 01:11:40
The one thing that I didn't see during the meat of it that when. 01:11:46
Zoning was was brought up. 01:11:51
Both. 01:11:54
Luke Colletti and and the mayor and and everyone said send it to if I felt. 01:11:58
And especially when drafting this, I felt there was they were giving a direction. 01:12:04
I would. 01:12:09
If we. 01:12:10
If you do not feel or if the Commission doesn't feel that. 01:12:11
Enough direction was given specifically for. 01:12:14
The Chapter 11. 01:12:19
Because I feel like they were very clear. 01:12:21
On Chapter 23, what was being asked, they went through very specific questions and those are the questions that that we had, that 01:12:23
I drew from those, from that meeting. 01:12:28
It's fair if you. 01:12:33
Didn't feel that you had enough direction concerning Chapter 11 just to ask and and see if they have any specific. 01:12:35
Things that they'd like for you to look at. 01:12:43
That would be my my suggestion. Thank you. Appreciate that. 01:12:46
If there's consensus on the Commission, I would prefer to proceed looking at both ordinances, certainly beginning with the ones 01:12:50
the issues that staff has pointed out, because they are embedded in the 10 pages of questions I have. 01:12:57
As we come to things in #11. 01:13:03
That we think we we need to gloss over or quickly dispose of we can. 01:13:06
But as I said before, we we don't need to ask the City Council any further what they. 01:13:12
What they intended, they said, what they intended and and at this point we're parsing words and wasting time. 01:13:18
So I would prefer we move along. 01:13:23
And if there's without objection, then I would like to move along. 01:13:25
Vice chair or I mean Commissioner Dzinski. 01:13:30
Please turn on your microphone. Thank you. My question is should we go to public comments at this time or I I think we. Well, yes 01:13:34
I will. Well, but I'm OK. Yeah I'll I'll do that under these circumstances. I I we we were gonna do that anyway. So if we're if 01:13:40
we're done with this portion of the discussion then I will go to public comment and I appreciate. 01:13:47
The comments by everybody and and staff. So with that, is there anybody who's raised and Mr. Period, do you have any further 01:13:54
comments? Yeah, yeah, I did. It's certainly your prerogative if you want to look at the both ordinances. I just made my comments 01:14:00
because I I had understood that it was at least primarily the zoning ordinance since that's kind of the bailiwick for the Planning 01:14:06
Commission, I should also. So if you want to consider both ordinances, you certainly don't have the legal right to do that. And 01:14:12
the other thing is that my partner. 01:14:18
Erica Vega is also on the line, and she's the one that wrote the ordinance, so in case you had any questions either now or later, 01:14:24
she's available to respond. 01:14:28
Ohh, I'm sure we will have questions of Miss Vega and I'm glad she is in attendance this evening so well and I didn't get a chance 01:14:33
to welcome her. I don't see her picture up on the screen, but welcome. 01:14:38
So with that, do we have any, if if that's it, Mr. Purrington will proceed on and I think the first person on the docket is Mike 01:14:45
Gibbs, is that correct or is there anybody in the audience first who would like to? 01:14:51
To address. 01:14:57
Mr. Tuminello, I think does, and then we'll go to Mr. Gibbs. 01:14:59
So welcome. 01:15:03
No. 01:15:10
It's. It's red. So now well. 01:15:11
Wait, is it on now? Oh, OK, good. OK. Vince Tuminello, Pacific Grove resident. 01:15:16
And I'm a little stunned that this is even still an issue. You know, when when they had Measure M on the ballot? 01:15:22
Personally, I think it was misrepresentative making illusions that we were gonna raise $300,000 a year. 01:15:27
And tax revenue from this one single storefront store, maybe including the delivery, I didn't even realize. 01:15:35
But that was gonna be part of the program. 01:15:43
But that that was my era. But anyway, if you take a look at other cities, the industry of growing marijuana. 01:15:45
The industry of selling marijuana licensed by different municipalities. 01:15:53
Has very much underperformed. 01:15:58
The presented expectations to the public. 01:16:01
And this measure M. 01:16:04
Alluded to the to the idea we were going to raise $300,000 which in the overall city budget is a drop in the bucket. So I don't 01:16:05
know how many people were swayed by that, but they were miss swayed if they were. The other thing is I know a lot of people who 01:16:11
was auditions would be great. I don't have to drive out the seaside. 01:16:16
Well, a lot of people go out to Costco. I don't see anybody complaining about going to Costco. Why do we need a marijuana shop in 01:16:22
Pacific Grove, our quaint, beautiful little town? And I certainly wouldn't put it. 01:16:28
In public's knows like on Central Ave. Lighthouse Ave. down by the aquarium, these places would be totally out of. 01:16:34
My concept of a good location for a pot shop. I'll tell you what I think if you're going to insist on doing this. 01:16:41
The only place that I think would be affordable to it. 01:16:47
Would be up across the street from Safeway parking lot, across the street from the Goodyear store behind the French Bakery. Up 01:16:50
there, there's a little shopping center that's kind of out of the way and not too obvious. 01:16:56
And if you want to put a pot shop someplace in the city, put it up there. Nobody leave it, notice it except those people who find 01:17:02
it to be a necessity either for medical or recreational needs to go there. But also, let me mention, you know, this is not legal 01:17:07
on the federal level. 01:17:13
You're putting yourself in liability by going along with this because at some point. 01:17:18
Sometime in the future. 01:17:23
There may be a, you know, ramifications. Some lawyers will get together. Someone was injured, overdosed too much THC, wound up in 01:17:25
the emergency room. 01:17:29
Which happens quite often if you talk to anybody from Chomp. 01:17:33
They have a lot of OD THC people up there who are completely out of their minds, passed out and debilitated in other ways. God 01:17:37
forbid one of these people gets in a car accident and injured in some other way, says Hey, you know that I I bought a license shop 01:17:43
by the city of Pacific Grove. 01:17:48
Gee, you know, they're violating federal law. Well, is that going to really fly? 01:17:54
I mean, I I. 01:17:58
And it just amazes me, you know, that we have a federal law. 01:18:00
Does not allow. 01:18:04
Promotion sale of marijuana yet? We're all going well going ahead with this. 01:18:06
So I want to wish everybody luck who participates in this, but I know you'll feel obligated by the City Council will do so. I know 01:18:11
the mayor is here. 01:18:15
I know the expectations for $300,000 a year are way over the top. 01:18:19
And is it all going to be worth it in the end? Thank you so much. Thank you. 01:18:24
Is there anybody else in the audience? If not, then I think we can go to. 01:18:34
Zoom. 01:18:40
With Mike Gibbs. 01:18:41
Planning Commission, thank you very much. This is Mike Gibbs again with the EDC. I'm speaking on my own behalf about the cannabis. 01:18:46
Issue. I completely agree with Mr. Tuminello on this issue and I. 01:18:53
I kind of feel bad that you all have to do this, but as long as you do, please. 01:18:57
Take on both of the ordinances, not just the one that seemed like that. The city staff member was trying to force you in One 01:19:02
Direction. Thank you for pushing back. 01:19:06
My comments are going to be a little bit more at a higher level of this. You know, Big Tobacco right now is the big investor 01:19:10
behind Big Cannabis. 01:19:15
And they pushed the lie or the myth, let's just put it that way, that cannabis was safe and that there's medicinal marijuana we 01:19:19
need to have it in. 01:19:23
All of our cities not true. 01:19:27
Last year I attended a a meeting at the Pacific of High school. 01:19:29
About fentanyl, I don't know if any of you were there, but two ER doctors, doctor Rib Closen. 01:19:33
Casey Grover were there from montage. 01:19:39
And they delivered a a very compelling look at. 01:19:42
Drugs inside Pacific Grove? 01:19:45
And three people got up. Three parents got up and talked about their children who had died from fentanyl. Guess what they all 01:19:48
started with? Cannabis. 01:19:51
So the doctors handed out. 01:19:56
A paper. 01:19:59
They talked about the three myths that have been perpetrated that caused cities like Pacific Grove to pass this abomination. 01:20:00
Really. 01:20:04
And one is that marijuana is a medicine. Now these are directly from Montage, ER doctors. 01:20:08
And most studies show that there is. And we already know there's no FDA approved medical marijuana. There is 0. There's none. It 01:20:13
is often used for anxiety and depression. 01:20:19
The yard docks at Montage would point out that, in fact, marijuana makes anxiety and depression even worse. 01:20:24
Not better. 01:20:31
2nd Myth there was perpetuated by Big Cannabis that marijuana is safe. It is not. 01:20:33
It is the leasing leading cause of suicides among teens in the United States. It increases depression, anxiety and psychosis. 01:20:38
Psychologists and I saw this first hand myself, and it is something to see if you've never seen it. 01:20:45
Myth #3. It has no effect on driving. Not true. 01:20:53
There's a direct relationship between high levels of marijuana and the ability to drive safely. 01:20:57
Myth #4. It has no effect on school work. 01:21:03
That is been proven to be not true, that we know that marijuana reduces brain growth. 01:21:08
Brain growth. 01:21:15
Among kids and youth under the age of 25, and it affects their ability to perform on tests. 01:21:17
You know, graduate on time. It contributes to absenteeism and dropouts. 01:21:24
And I don't think that's something that we want to. 01:21:29
Even think about it because it's too horrible to really cogitate on it. 01:21:32
That's number five. Marijuana is not addictive, and this is a big one. 01:21:36
I don't know how anybody can possibly think whether it's medical marijuana or not. 01:21:41
They all have high levels of THC that somebody may tell you different. It's not true and one of the things that some point if 01:21:46
you're going to look at one of the measures. 01:21:50
I would look at THC dosing. The dosing is 20 times higher than it was 50 years ago when I was treating people and it is way too 01:21:55
high and overdoses. 01:22:00
Occur all of the time and there is no Narcan. There is no nothing that you can take if you have a THC overdose. 01:22:05
And one of the things is that many of you are parents. You may have experienced cannabis or marijuana back in the 60s or 70s. 01:22:14
And parents think that's not a big deal because when I was doing it. 01:22:21
When I was token, you know, when I was smoking, it wasn't a problem unfortunately. 01:22:25
Their experience doesn't apply to teenagers today, and parents don't understand the current risk. So I honor your, you know, 01:22:29
having to take this from the City Council. It was an advisory measure. We should have never approved it as a City Council. City 01:22:35
Council already knows that. So good luck with this. 01:22:40
And I and I admire the fact that you're approaching this in the correct way. So thank you very much, Chairman Lilly and the rest 01:22:46
of the Planning Commission. 01:22:49
Thank you. 01:22:54
We have influence and Dahmer welcome. 01:22:57
Response. 01:23:00
Goodness gracious, what a bunch of. 01:23:02
Propaganda. 01:23:06
Excuse me, there is a medical use for marijuana. 01:23:08
Tell that to the cancer patients you just absolutely dismissed. 01:23:14
Umm, as far as your? 01:23:20
As far as your. 01:23:24
Following what the council recommended. 01:23:25
Yes, I will agree. 01:23:28
That they asked you to look at all of it. 01:23:31
And I realized that this city is a little bit disarrayed right now. 01:23:34
Because the head propagandist is no longer. 01:23:40
Uh. 01:23:44
Manager. 01:23:46
City manager and guess what the organizational chart still says? The City Council. 01:23:48
Is right up there underneath. 01:23:54
The citizens of Pacific Grove. 01:23:57
Who voted for this? Whatever reason, it's fine. 01:24:00
I myself has views. 01:24:05
Cannabidiol products. 01:24:07
And been to many different dispensaries. 01:24:10
Throughout many years. 01:24:13
I had a medical license from the state. 01:24:15
Not for high THC content whatsoever. 01:24:19
Because I need it to manage pain and it is mostly CBD products. I don't want to get high, believe me. I want to speak my mind 01:24:23
perfectly sober, thank you very much. 01:24:30
So here we go. You are charged with this. 01:24:37
I am. I am asking you. I I figure this is going to end up kind of being like a skate park. The only thing I agreed with the last 01:24:42
two speakers on is probably up there in the Forest Hill behind. 01:24:48
Whatever and across from Safeway, you know, that's about the only thing I can agree upon. Because. 01:24:54
I didn't hear anywhere with I I heard the CV, you know, and and transient, but I didn't hear the CVAT C1, which of course is my 01:25:01
area of the woods. 01:25:07
And the fact that Monterrey has approved apparently 21 on Lighthouse Ave. in New Monterey there and one near Cannery Row will 01:25:14
Yeah, this isn't a real good thought. 01:25:22
Saturation and whatever. 01:25:29
Yes, I approve of delivery only in some industrial little place. They don't need a large warehouse for this. 01:25:32
There isn't going to be. I don't even know if you're going to find. 01:25:40
Someone who wants to do it to tell you the truth. 01:25:44
Because this high dosage, really high THC which are from medical ones which are. 01:25:48
For cancer patients, et cetera. 01:25:56
They already have their connections, so to speak, their dispensary. I don't think Pacific Grove is ever going to realize the money 01:26:00
they think they are from this. 01:26:04
And. 01:26:10
Anyway, I don't think another one down here. And yes, I'd like to see some zoning between. 01:26:12
Residential areas. 01:26:18
I don't think the CV ATC is a good idea at all. 01:26:20
And umm. 01:26:25
And as far as the ordinances go, since we really don't have a permanent city manager right now, I think it'd be a good idea to 01:26:28
take any of that out of the ordinances because it needs more oversight. 01:26:34
Than anything else. I am very hopeful of what we'll get in next but. 01:26:41
I'm not relying on staff, so to speak. 01:26:49
Thank you very much. 01:26:52
Thank you. 01:26:57
If Tony Chiani welcome. 01:26:58
Good evening, Commissioners and staff. 01:27:05
And other members of the public. 01:27:09
I'm probably not a good candidate for talking about this, because. 01:27:12
I don't use marijuana or. 01:27:16
And other stuff. 01:27:19
But one of my cats does. 01:27:21
Umm. 01:27:24
And I had to go to Seaside. 01:27:25
To fulfill the vets. 01:27:27
Prescription for it? 01:27:29
Umm. 01:27:31
But as a planner. 01:27:32
And looking at the parameters. 01:27:35
Sort of the design parameters that you need to consider. 01:27:38
If it's 1000 feet. 01:27:42
From. 01:27:45
Residential areas. 01:27:47
Or schools or churches and things like that. 01:27:49
Then I suggest you get out your. 01:27:52
Your. 01:27:55
Protractors. 01:27:58
And draw the circles. 01:27:59
And figure out where from the edges of any. 01:28:02
Commercial areas. 01:28:06
Or industrial areas. 01:28:09
That there are not residences or schools. 01:28:11
And. 01:28:16
As I. 01:28:17
Understand. 01:28:19
The zoning maps. 01:28:20
There's not a lot of places like that in Pacific Grove. 01:28:22
I don't think Pacific Grove is really a great place. 01:28:25
For selling and distributing. 01:28:29
Cannabis products. 01:28:31
Except. 01:28:33
Possibly. 01:28:34
To have some sort of a. 01:28:36
Not even a storefront? Some sort of a? 01:28:39
Delivery service. 01:28:42
So enterprise? 01:28:44
That could deliver those. 01:28:47
Products primarily probably for. 01:28:49
Health purposes. 01:28:52
To people who need it. 01:28:54
And that way it'll be more accessible. 01:28:56
That way I wouldn't have to drive to Pacific to Seaside. 01:28:59
To get this little bottle of stuff. 01:29:03
That I drip on my cat's food. 01:29:06
So my cats. 01:29:10
Doing a little bit better. 01:29:12
Take a scientific. 01:29:16
Approach to this. 01:29:19
Look and see. 01:29:21
If there's any areas. 01:29:23
That are not in the coastal zone. 01:29:24
Not visitor serving. 01:29:27
Uh. 01:29:29
That. 01:29:30
Or visitor commercial areas. 01:29:31
That. 01:29:33
Can accommodate this kind of use. 01:29:35
That's a difficult choice. Thank you very much for your work. 01:29:37
Thank you. 01:29:42
We have Marsha. 01:29:46
Marsha. 01:29:47
Welcome. 01:29:48
Good evening, Mr. Chair and Commissioners. 01:29:50
Umm. 01:29:55
I'm glad that you opened up the discussion and that you're going to be opening up your review. 01:29:56
Umm. 01:30:04
I'm. 01:30:07
I'm primarily going to address. 01:30:08
Your. 01:30:11
Land use responsibilities as they relate to health, safety, welfare, quality of life. 01:30:14
And. 01:30:22
And something that was not put on the. 01:30:24
On the referendum that went to to the vote. 01:30:28
Was the fact that there are a lot of health issues. 01:30:32
Mental health issues. 01:30:36
Related to cannabis, for example. 01:30:38
In May of 2023. 01:30:42
A new study was done. 01:30:45
In Denmark that. 01:30:48
Considered. 01:30:51
6.9 million people who ranged in age from 16 to 49 between 1972 and. 01:30:54
2021. 01:31:02
This was also done in conjunction with the US. 01:31:03
Researchers and they found. 01:31:09
That marijuana use increases schizophrenia risk in young men. 01:31:11
As many as 30% of schizophrenia cases among young men could have been prevented if they had avoided marijuana. 01:31:17
There was a lesser percentage. For young females it was 4%. 01:31:28
This coincided with previous research that showed that. 01:31:35
The psychoactive ingredient in cannabis, called THC, may trigger or worsen schizophrenia. Long term and heavy cannabis use can 01:31:40
alter the way. 01:31:45
That brain works, and it especially impacts developing brains of teenagers. That's something to consider about our youth. 01:31:51
Also, weed related ER visits are up 44% in New York City. 01:32:01
And. 01:32:10
There's also an article about. 01:32:12
Candy weed. 01:32:15
No protection from marijuana child poisoning. 01:32:17
Over 7000 children under the age of six were exposed to cannabis in the US. 01:32:22
Do between 2017, 2021. 01:32:29
And they found. 01:32:34
15%. 01:32:36
Marijuana related hospital encountered. 01:32:38
Encounters required hospitalization, 4% required mechanical ventilation. 01:32:41
Root candy was responsible for 43% of pediatric poisoning. 01:32:49
So. 01:32:55
Ah, consider that when you're considering zoning. Thank you. 01:32:56
Thank you. 01:33:01
No one else online, No one else online, alright, we just one person just popped up. 01:33:08
Person popped up, Melinda. 01:33:15
Miller. Miller. 01:33:18
Mueller, Mueller. 01:33:20
Welcome. 01:33:22
Hello. 01:33:24
My name is Melinda Derwin Mueller and I am a resident of Pacific Grove. 01:33:26
I am also a mother. 01:33:33
I have two children in local schools who are young. 01:33:36
And I am a cannabis user. 01:33:40
And. 01:33:44
I'm not a schizophrenic. 01:33:45
I'm a. 01:33:47
Totally normal human being. 01:33:48
And me, along with all other Pacific Grove residents. 01:33:52
Who are adults and choose to use cannabis to drive out of town? 01:33:56
To spend our money. 01:34:01
In Carmel. 01:34:03
In Seaside. 01:34:06
And in. 01:34:08
Salinas. 01:34:10
To buy our cannabis. 01:34:12
If you put a. 01:34:15
Cannabis Dispensary in Pacific Grove. I can guarantee you nobody's going to drive to the edge of the peninsula. 01:34:17
From Salinas or Seaside to buy cannabis. 01:34:23
But all your Pacific Grove residents will be spending our money locally. 01:34:27
You will be getting the tax money. 01:34:32
It won't be going to Carmel or Seaside. 01:34:33
If. 01:34:36
You'll get all the tax money. 01:34:37
And you'll be serving us. 01:34:39
You're not going to attract people from Seaside who want to drive all the way out here for something like that. 01:34:41
And this is coming from a totally normal human being who is has two children locally. I am an upstanding community member. 01:34:48
And I'm a totally normal person and I'm just sick of driving to Seaside. 01:34:57
To spend my money it should. It should be local. 01:35:02
Ensure visitors will. 01:35:06
Possibly also. 01:35:08
Partake. But you know, we also sell alcohol locally, so it's the same thing. 01:35:11
There is already. 01:35:16
Umm. 01:35:17
Deliveries that we can get out here. 01:35:19
But you know, just. 01:35:21
As far as driving and going elsewhere. 01:35:23
You would you would save a lot of Pacific Grove residents. 01:35:27
Driving, driving time and you would get yourself a lot of tax money. 01:35:32
And. 01:35:37
I'm not a schizophrenic. We're just, you know, we choose not to drink alcohol. 01:35:38
That's a totally normal thing and people just need to start getting used to it. 01:35:43
And Pacific Grove is just super behind on this. 01:35:47
Other towns are already. 01:35:51
Way ahead of us. 01:35:53
Just like with cutting down trees like let's, let's get to the present day here in town. 01:35:55
So. 01:36:01
I hope that you listen to somebody who is a cannabis user. 01:36:01
And an upstanding Pacific Grove resident. 01:36:05
I appreciate you your time. Thank you very much. 01:36:08
Thank you. 01:36:12
I see no other hands, all right. 01:36:16
So then. 01:36:19
At this point I will close. 01:36:21
This matter to further public comment so we can proceed to. 01:36:25
Consider all these issues and so. 01:36:31
Umm. 01:36:34
Without objection, then let me. 01:36:36
Use the format that. 01:36:39
Initially suggested by the staff and that's the first item actually on the list I provided, and that would be. 01:36:43
And what zones should? 01:36:50
Storefront cannabis retailer be allowed. 01:36:52
I let me propose this, though, that we go through. 01:36:55
The ordinances. 01:37:00
And look at the questions that we've. 01:37:01
Identified You may have other questions you wish to identify. 01:37:03
We'll talk them through. 01:37:06
We we had a discussion a couple of months ago. 01:37:09
Where we? 01:37:12
Almost like a kitchen table discussion about our thoughts about this thing, but now we I think we need to focus on the specific 01:37:13
issues before us. 01:37:17
That have been outlined by the staff and in the. 01:37:21
Presentation that I provided so. 01:37:25
Without objection then we'll proceed. And so the first question that staff raised was which specific zone should. 01:37:28
Planning Commission. 01:37:35
Recommend retailers be allowed. 01:37:37
And that's in the. 01:37:39
Ordinance, 2392. 01:37:41
And that would be in. 01:37:44
Ohh 6 OB 2. 01:37:46
And staff recommends cannabis be allowed in the following districts. 01:37:48
Downtown commercial like commercial. 01:37:52
Heavy commercial which is C2 and Forest Hill commercial. 01:37:55
The original ordinance also had. 01:37:59
Visitor. Commercial. 01:38:03
And CIT, which would be, I think, just the Holman block, if I'm not mistaken. So there there's. 01:38:05
Some change there in the. 01:38:14
The the initial state, the initial ordinance and and then what staff recommends so. 01:38:18
Best way I know it is just to go go through one by one and and hear everybody's thoughts. So who would like to begin? 01:38:25
I I'm in accord with the staff recommendation it makes it makes sense to me. 01:38:35
OK. 01:38:40
So that would be then the ones that are listed here on their first recommendation. OK, all right. 01:38:41
Who else would like to comment about? 01:38:47
That issue, Commissioner Sawyer. 01:38:49
I just was wondering about the downtown commercial area that. 01:38:51
Does that preclude are basically historic? 01:38:56
Blocks. 01:39:00
You know it's true. How do you mean if we all get it doesn't preclude any if downtown commercial would be all CD. 01:39:04
If you let it in retail. 01:39:12
It it would include the whole lighthouse area. 01:39:15
It. 01:39:18
Go ahead. 01:39:20
I'm, I'm sorry. 01:39:20
It would not because of the buffer zones. 01:39:22
So if you look at the bus buffer zone maps. 01:39:24
There's very, very little of the downtown commercials. There's maybe 3 parcels in the whole of downtown where? 01:39:27
Ohh allowed. 01:39:34
All right. 01:39:36
I don't have a problem with it then. 01:39:38
Thank you, Commissioner Nuzenski, Thank you. 01:39:44
Seemed to have your hand raised for a bit, yeah, I I support the staff recommendation for item number one. 01:39:47
OK. 01:39:54
So. 01:39:55
I have a question so CV which is this does not include visitor commercial correct? 01:39:57
OK. And that is where that is. 01:40:04
I don't have my zoning map, but. 01:40:08
We have these maps at the end of. 01:40:11
Again, there are a few of them. There's. 01:40:14
Ohh, if you look on the screen there there. 01:40:17
It's the blow up from map 2. 01:40:20
So can you see where this is? This map too is. 01:40:24
I'll take it back to this area. 01:40:27
The first CV area. 01:40:30
Is. 01:40:34
Right around that. 01:40:36
Central and that is a recommendation. It's a very small block. 01:40:37
Ohh. 01:40:42
We're. 01:40:44
This is. 01:40:46
The mayor saying it's a Meals on Wheels. 01:40:48
So it's a very small. That CB area is very small, and then there's another area over. 01:40:54
Which, which is that that area over by the. 01:41:00
The aquarium offices. 01:41:04
Warner there were the. 01:41:11
OK. 01:41:13
Order there were the aquarium offices are that's a happy girl kitchen. 01:41:14
As I understand it, OK, the thing, they're up in the corner. 01:41:19
By Hopkins, that is. 01:41:24
The old Monterey boat works, is that correct? 01:41:26
Well, that was years ago. I don't know what they call it now, but that's what it was years ago. Ohh, you mean on this? Well, we 01:41:31
have it on this. Is it the same spot on this map here that. 01:41:35
You can see that. 01:41:39
Campbell. 01:41:47
I know there are a lot of different maps. 01:41:48
It might make sense to be using our zoning map and and just if you want to use the whole yeah screen, let me pull the whole. 01:41:50
There we go. OK, that. That's. That's clear to me. Maybe not to others, but it's clear to me. So CVS then means. 01:42:02
The boat works location in the northeast northeast corner. 01:42:11
Of the city. 01:42:15
Next to the budding the aquarium property. 01:42:16
The heavy Girl kitchen. And then there was there a third one. 01:42:19
Ohh, down by the. 01:42:23
They're in the the upper left corner of map 2. 01:42:25
Yes. And that would be the. 01:42:29
Ohh, is that where? 01:42:32
Is that the the, the, the Community Center? 01:42:35
It's a senior housing. The senior housing in that area, Yeah, that area in there. 01:42:40
Umm. 01:42:45
And then the the one down and then they're down here on the bottom on map one and that would be those are actually that's C2 01:42:47
that's heavy commercial that that's why I tried to get these a little bit blown up because they the way that they hash these they 01:42:53
don't a lot of sense that's C2 down in the on map 1. 01:42:59
So the happy girl one is really see, two not. 01:43:06
CVS. 01:43:10
Miss. 01:43:11
Mr. Chair, that's not happy. Go kitchen. That's down down on by slow, I think. There. 01:43:12
You're right. That's where the and that's not, but that's that's C2 and that's the Quonset Hut, right? Yeah, that's the Quonset 01:43:19
Hut. 01:43:23
And so the visitor commercial really is just that one. 01:43:29
Corner there. 01:43:33
So what is the consensus then of of the Commission that we we use the staff's? 01:43:40
Recommendation. Do we need to take a vote on some of these things or? 01:43:46
It's it appears that you have any comment, Commissioner Davidson about that or no, I'm missing with everybody else? 01:43:50
So perhaps, Mr. Campbell, you can take copious notes of this, yeah? 01:44:01
And. 01:44:07
Record that we're in agreement with it, I think. 01:44:08
The staff recommendation on this, unless there's a desire to take a vote on some of these things, if if there appears to be 01:44:12
controversy, we can. 01:44:15
OK, Mr. Chair, this is Brian Perry. My recommendation would be you do a motion on it so you formalize your direction to the 01:44:19
council. 01:44:23
Alright, so may I have a motion then to approve the staff recommendation number? 01:44:30
But Commissioner Sawyer, when you say staff recommends cannabis be allowed in the following zoning districts, are we? 01:44:37
Delineating which cannabis? Or is it cannabis in its entirety? Because we seem to. 01:44:45
Want to have delivery and storefront so when you say cannabis, you're just lumping it all together. 01:44:53
Right, No. 01:44:59
This is the retailers. The why doesn't it say cannabis retail, that is. 01:45:02
Ohh. 01:45:09
Up above the. 01:45:10
Thank you. OK. Let let let me ask a question though but. 01:45:11
This. 01:45:15
This still is subject to the 1000 foot rule. 01:45:16
Yes. 01:45:20
So. 01:45:20
Even many of these are are potentially knocked out exactly, yes. 01:45:22
I would if we could ask Erica Vega just to, since she did. 01:45:28
Prepare the ordinance, I want to make sure, because what we have. 01:45:34
In the. 01:45:39
The ordinance itself and that 60. 01:45:42
Be two. 01:45:44
It says it does say use for permit for a cannabis business. 01:45:49
Shall be granted subject the following. 01:45:52
So if, if Eric could, Erica could chime in on on if we are. 01:45:56
If these delivery only if we can. 01:46:01
If that is being eliminated from this and we're just talking about retail because the retail it's still the delivery only is 01:46:04
retail, it's just medicinal retail. So this is. 01:46:09
So maybe you could help us make this motion correct. So the purpose of of this question and for the purposes of this motion, it 01:46:15
would pertain to your storefront retailer, not your delivery or any delivery only retailers that's addressed in this second 01:46:20
question. 01:46:25
Umm. 01:46:30
And. 01:46:31
And to get to the comment, I think or heard from Chair Lily, it's sort of a a double layer. So first she would kind of. 01:46:33
Identify the zone where the storefront. 01:46:40
Or or zones where the storefront business could locate and then you would take the map that has the radius to figure out which 01:46:43
which sites within each of those zones are even available. 01:46:48
OK. 01:46:56
We haven't gotten to the question yet on the. 01:46:58
On the. 01:47:00
Additional the separation so. 01:47:02
But once you once you finalize that and once council finalizes that, that's how it would work. 01:47:04
I know I have a number of questions about the medicinal SO. 01:47:09
Defer that. 01:47:13
But. 01:47:14
So the CIT or C1T district excludes the home and block. 01:47:16
Although the home and block. 01:47:23
Is. 01:47:25
Really within 1000 feet of a lot of things. 01:47:25
So it's almost. 01:47:29
It's like. 01:47:30
This leaves out of your vest, I suppose. 01:47:31
It was an analogy. 01:47:34
All right, so is there a motion to this? 01:47:36
I know that. 01:47:39
We recommend we I move that we approve the recommended. 01:47:41
Staff recommendation. 01:47:46
For them. 01:47:48
Retail store. 01:47:49
Zoning, registrations, storefront retail. 01:47:51
Storefront Retail. Thank you. 01:47:54
OK. Is there a second to that motion? 01:47:56
OK. 01:47:59
So. 01:48:00
Commissioner Nijinsky moved that we accept the staff recommendation. 01:48:00
On. 01:48:05
Storefront. 01:48:06
Cannabis. 01:48:08
Retailers be allowed in. 01:48:09
So zoning districts of CD C1C2. 01:48:10
And CFH. 01:48:14
And I believe also that that would include the 1000 foot buffer. 01:48:18
Am I correct with? 01:48:22
The friendly amendment for that or. 01:48:23
No. 01:48:25
OK. 01:48:27
And there's a seconded by Commissioner Sawyer. So is there further discussion? 01:48:28
If not, then Mr. Campbell, can you call the roll please? 01:48:33
Or I'm sorry, commissioner, Kobe, cut. Make sure that we're. 01:48:37
I want to make sure we're very specific. 01:48:41
OK. That it is not the UH delivery service? 01:48:43
The. 01:48:47
There would be no confusion in the future and if retailer. 01:48:48
Using the term retailer is the correct legal term. 01:48:53
To do that. 01:48:56
Then I have no problem. 01:48:57
But I want to make sure that it is not. 01:48:59
Storefront retailer. It's the motion guy. And that that is the one. 01:49:02
Retailer that the city will then. 01:49:07
Require a. 01:49:09
License for. 01:49:11
OK. 01:49:12
Is that is that specific enough, Miss Vega? 01:49:13
I would just like to clarify. 01:49:16
That a storefront retailer, the 1 storefront retailer. 01:49:18
Could offer delivery service as a part of their business. 01:49:23
And that would be allowed. So it would be a combination of storefront walk in. 01:49:27
Sales and Delivery sales. 01:49:33
That is, that is an option. 01:49:35
Under both state licensing and how the the licensing ordinance for the city is currently drafted and we haven't received any. 01:49:37
Concrete direction. 01:49:47
On whether. 01:49:49
On the specific issue of allowing. 01:49:50
Delivery. 01:49:53
At the storefront retailer from the City Council at this point in time. 01:49:54
So that would be basically if the dealer then at this point so chose. 01:49:59
Correct. They wouldn't be mandated to it, but it is something that they could. 01:50:04
Decide to provide as a part of their business model. 01:50:08
All right. 01:50:12
Is that clearer than to everybody, or are you satisfied with that, Commissioner? Yes, I am OK. 01:50:13
Then if there's no further discussion, could you call the roll, Mr. Campbell? 01:50:19
Yes. 01:50:24
Commissioner Nazki. 01:50:26
Commissioner Sawyer. 01:50:29
Aye. 01:50:30
Commissioner Kubica. 01:50:31
Aye. 01:50:33
Commissioner Davison. 01:50:34
Aye. 01:50:36
Commissioner or Chair Lily? 01:50:37
Aye. 01:50:40
And Vice Chair Murphy I. 01:50:41
We have six eyes, 0 nays and one absent the motion to. 01:50:43
Accept the recommendations by staff to allow. 01:50:53
The zoning districts CD, C1C2C, FH. 01:50:57
For. 01:51:02
Storefront Cannabis retail passes. 01:51:03
OK. 01:51:06
So, as Mr. Campbell said, the motion passes and. 01:51:07
So we are now come to recommendation. 01:51:12
Set #2, which is. 01:51:15
Now we just read this from the staff report because this is better written than what I had. 01:51:17
In my. 01:51:22
Presentation. Should any additional separation requirements be recommended? 01:51:23
For a cannabis business. 01:51:29
And that would be 239207 O. 01:51:31
Staff. 01:51:35
Considers recommends considering the following additional separation requirements and the. 01:51:36
First separation requirements. 1000 feet I believe. 01:51:40
But high density residential, there's four of them here. High density residential beach locations that could increase. 01:51:44
PDI. 01:51:51
Presume that means Police Department enforcement. 01:51:52
And smoking on beaches and trails. 01:51:55
Drug and alcohol rehab facilities and should cannabis retail or medicinal delivery be allowed near businesses designated for? 01:51:58
Safe parking programs? If so, what hours of operation should be regulated? 01:52:07
For clarification, safe parking programs, would that be the one for homeless women at the Methodist Church? Is that what we're 01:52:12
talking about or we're talking about something else? No, that's that's correct. 01:52:17
Is there any other? 01:52:22
That you know. 01:52:23
No, that's correct. Alright. And that that is embedded in some kind of. 01:52:24
City sponsored program I believe that safe parking. 01:52:28
Situation, Yes, OK. Just for clarification. 01:52:33
All right. Are there any comments about this? 01:52:36
Vice Chair Murphy. 01:52:40
Hey. 01:52:41
I'm not sure in this context what qualifies as high density residential. 01:52:42
We were. 01:52:48
Looking at. 01:52:51
Things in our more apartment buildings, so R3 are four areas. 01:52:53
We can be specific to the to a zone if it's near a zone, or we can be specific. 01:52:58
To. 01:53:03
Condominiums or or apartment buildings? 01:53:08
That's thank. Thank you and I. 01:53:12
I wouldn't favor additional buff. 01:53:15
Buffers for those, but I guess I'm interested in hearing what other people think. 01:53:17
Commissioner Davis. 01:53:24
Yeah, if I could follow up on that. What's the thinking behind? 01:53:26
Doing additional. 01:53:31
Separation for high density residential rather than. 01:53:32
I guess standard single family home. 01:53:35
That that came from a recommendation from a police commander. I think it it. 01:53:38
I don't know specifically. 01:53:45
Why? I think it has to do with more. 01:53:47
Potential police patrolling. A lot of their recommendations had to do with the increase in in police patrol, but I'm not 100% sure 01:53:50
what his. 01:53:54
Who's your Sawyer? 01:54:07
Umm. 01:54:08
Where are the drug and alcohol rehabs I only know of? 01:54:10
1. 01:54:15
Is there a second one? 01:54:16
I think it's just the one, yeah. And and that's up on pine, so. 01:54:22
I think the idea here is that necessarily when when doing planning, we're thinking of not only just. 01:54:27
Of what exists. But what may exist, like your buffer map for example, will change over time with new licensed daycares or schools 01:54:33
or youth centres. So if you add these, it will also change over time if we include any future drug and alcohol rehabilitation 01:54:38
centers. 01:54:43
And then one other question. 01:54:49
What street is the Safe Parking program on? 01:54:51
That on sunset if. 01:54:55
I'm sorry, I'm. 01:54:57
Commissioner Sawyer, I would recommend we don't talk about the location of the safe parking, OK? 01:54:59
Thank you. 01:55:04
I understand. Thank you. 01:55:06
Question. 01:55:14
I had a question. Somebody else have a question? 01:55:21
Gateway. 01:55:25
Facility, is that considered? 01:55:27
High density residential. 01:55:30
Without standing where it is. 01:55:32
It's it serves. 01:55:36
Developmentally challenged individuals and it's a. 01:55:38
Residential facility. 01:55:43
That. 01:55:45
Considered A. 01:55:47
That. 01:55:48
Uh. 01:55:49
Chair Lily that. 01:55:50
That's. 01:55:52
A known. 01:55:53
Location for residential facilities for people with. 01:55:54
Hi. 01:56:00
Needs. 01:56:01
And. 01:56:03
Yeah, that's just. 01:56:04
But it's in the R zone anyway, I guess, so we're OK. 01:56:05
Yeah, yeah. 01:56:09
All right. 01:56:11
All right. 01:56:13
Is. Let me ask you this is. 01:56:19
Everybody knows where the. I'm not sure who operates it now, but Beacon House is on Pine. 01:56:22
Is that outside 1000 feet of? 01:56:29
Down school. 01:56:33
I can't tell from no, no. 01:56:35
So it's very good. So it's within that so. 01:56:41
Practice and then and then the and then the. Then there's also the bridges. 01:56:44
Ministry. 01:56:50
Called House there at the corner of Evans and. 01:56:52
And everybody knows that, so I don't think I'm divulging any secret locations here or anything like that. 01:56:55
Corner of Central and Lighthouse. 01:57:00
I mean. 01:57:03
Let me see it again light. 01:57:03
Central and Evans, which is near the nursing home just down from the nursing home. 01:57:05
Is that? 01:57:10
Is that? 01:57:12
Outside without 1000 feet of somewhere I I can't tell from. 01:57:13
That's within that as well. I guess we're OK there. 01:57:19
Seems like there's a lot within that 1000 feet and I I will be honest, I'm, I'm still learning or. 01:57:23
Our area being three months into the job, so. 01:57:30
Sure. 01:57:38
Lozinski. 01:57:38
Well. 01:57:39
Since Aaron's not gonna do it, I'm gonna do it. 01:57:41
He I spoke with him before the. 01:57:44
I spoke with him this week about the measurements. 01:57:48
And in addition to. 01:57:51
This was his idea that the the. 01:57:54
The way you measure the 1000 feet is. 01:57:57
Is. 01:58:00
Also important to measure from other locations outside of Pacific Grove. In other words, if there's a school on the border in 01:58:01
Monterey. 01:58:05
And it's, you know, we couldn't put it there because it's too close to that school. Or if Monterey decides to put a daycare center 01:58:08
on the border of Pacific Grove. 01:58:12
That's gonna knock us out of that area. 01:58:17
So in other words. 01:58:19
They do a circle. 01:58:20
What they do is they work backwards once the, once once the. 01:58:22
The the location is determined then they draw 1000 circle from that location to see what what's in that location. 01:58:26
So that's another way of determining. 01:58:34
Whether or not it's still going to be able to pass. 01:58:36
So this is only really within the city of Pacific Grove, what we're talking about. But I also want to point out, yeah, that. 01:58:40
What the staff's going to do? 01:58:46
Is they're going to determine once even before it comes to us. 01:58:48
Whether or not that location is acceptable once you know, because it's going to look in 1000 from that location in all directions. 01:58:53
So the point is again if if Monterey decides to put a daycare center on our border. 01:59:00
We could be in trouble for, you know, not allowing it. 01:59:05
This just that. I just want to make that point, Commissioner Sawyer. 01:59:08
Could I just ask a clarifying question because. 01:59:12
You sort of answered it, but I still have a question. So. 01:59:16
We have like 1/2 a block that's. 01:59:19
Robert Down School. 01:59:23
So how do we determine what's 1000 feet do you drop? 01:59:25
A pin on all the corners and go 1000 feet from that. Do you drop a pin in the middle of Robert down? I'm very confused about the 01:59:31
1000 feet. 01:59:35
So when talking about the storefront retail? 01:59:39
There will only be one right? So I just. 01:59:43
Is that that question to you? Yeah. Well, it's not. 01:59:47
I guess the the the best way to describe it it's from property lines is what the way I understand it's going to be from the 01:59:53
property line. OK, but that's that's also. 01:59:57
That's also looking at it on, I mean on the from one side what's 1000 feet from the school, but you give me a location, I'll look 02:00:02
1000 feet. 02:00:06
From that location to see if anything fits within that. 02:00:11
Because. 02:00:15
I guess that. 02:00:16
That buffer zone is a guide for us right now to look at and say. 02:00:18
This is where we wouldn't be able to do these things. 02:00:23
Someone still has to come up with the location and we will still do our due diligence in making sure that when we receive that 02:00:27
location, we know that there are none of these facilities within 1000 feet. 02:00:34
Or if in these facilities you choose to do a different number, I mean that's you don't have to if you. 02:00:40
If you decide to use additional separation requirements from from the facilities that staff is recommending. 02:00:46
You can say 1000 feet, or you can choose another number that might be. That's up to you. But. 02:00:54
Through the chair. 02:01:00
I have seen some cities go down to 600 feet. 02:01:02
So. 02:01:06
Make a comment to amplify what? 02:01:09
Mr. Campbell said. 02:01:12
Having gone through the recusal process on a couple of projects. 02:01:14
The FPC looks at it as. 02:01:18
From quarter nearest corner of the. 02:01:20
The parcel. 02:01:23
The next nearest corner of the. 02:01:25
The one in. 02:01:27
And questions so And it's by the crow flies. 02:01:28
That's how it works. It's it's spelled out that way in the ordinance and I believe it's spelled out that way in the ordinance as 02:01:33
well as is, vice chair Murphy said. 02:01:36
In addition, the courts have ruled of Amplify a little bit on what Commissioner Zinski said. 02:01:41
Courts have ruled in in zoning matters that. 02:01:47
Sony has issues. Have to take an approval. Has to take projects for use permits, has to take an approval. 02:01:50
The. 02:01:58
The disposition of. 02:02:00
Of facility they have to consult the the adjacent cities is the best way of saying it. 02:02:02
Fumbling around here a little bit, they have to consult the the the adjacent city. They just can't assume it's everything stops at 02:02:07
the city borders, which you're absolutely correct. And frankly, I had forgotten about that, so I'm glad you brought that up. 02:02:13
I have to give credit to the staff for that. Thank you and I'm glad that that's where we have the staff. 02:02:20
On the side, we were just discussing this as well. You can make a recommendation. 02:02:27
To to say. 02:02:34
Let's let's be specific in the zoning of where that 1000 feet starts. So. 02:02:36
You can do that. You can if if I'm correct. Erica, is that something that we could do? Sorry, it's a little awkward for me to 02:02:41
interject. 02:02:45
The zoom. 02:02:50
The ordinance already has a specific measuring. 02:02:50
Description. 02:02:54
It's from the. 02:02:55
Property line to property line from the closet at the closest points. 02:02:58
And it's in a straight line, so as the profiles from the closest points of the two property lines is how it's measured. 02:03:02
Now, if you disagree with that and you would like to recommend something else, you're free to do so, but that is how it is 02:03:10
currently drafted. 02:03:12
Sanski. 02:03:20
Yes, Chair Lily, as far as the staff recommendations for other things to consider, I support. 02:03:21
Considering these things, mainly what I'm struggling with is. 02:03:27
Umm. 02:03:31
How much of A buffer you know it? It would be arbitrary for me to just recommend a buffer. 02:03:33
You know, in other words, I I would like to look to see what other experts may be. 02:03:38
Maybe ask the Police Department to help us out. 02:03:45
As to what? What buffer they would recommend and then. 02:03:48
And for and and to research it more to see the benefits of it, for example. 02:03:53
The drug and alcohol rehab, I didn't really consider that. Now I know that that could be in different locations. I don't know if 02:04:00
that has any, you know, restrictions on it from how far those things are from schools or anything like that, but. 02:04:05
Umm. 02:04:12
I'm not sure if. 02:04:13
If the consideration is someone's on drug or rehab. 02:04:15
I don't know how much of the difference of a walk is it from 500 feet to the 1000 feet? I really don't know. 02:04:19
You know that that's really. 02:04:25
You know, benefit. However, as far as beaches are concerned, I again, I don't know how much of A buffer, if any, I would consider, 02:04:27
but I do think that we these are good recommendations. 02:04:32
And coming from a good place, and I do think that maybe we should. 02:04:37
Considering. 02:04:40
OK. 02:04:42
Commissioner Davison yeah, I think off the the back of that if Miss Vega could maybe weigh in as she has a number, you know, 02:04:43
extensive experience in this and then the second comment I would make. 02:04:49
Is I'm happy to like Commissioner Lozinski to go along with with all the recommendations. I would just ask that we remove the high 02:04:56
density residential. 02:05:01
That's just a potential equity issue. If we're talking about housing, I don't know why high density would be. 02:05:06
More effective than single family homes. 02:05:12
I'd like to ask miss Vega question. So if. 02:05:17
A cannabis dealer is licensed and approved and has used permit and opens and then a school. 02:05:23
Comes nearby within the 1000 feet buffer. 02:05:32
That was were adopted. 02:05:36
The fact that it's open, we can't remove their license, am I correct? I mean, once, once it's done, it's done. 02:05:38
So the. 02:05:45
It's not the license, it's the use permit, right And so on. And no, you would not. You know there's sort of a first, first in time 02:05:47
issue there. You you can't. Once the use permit is issued and they relied upon it, they attain A vested right to to to that use. 02:05:56
That's what I thought. 02:06:05
Yeah. 02:06:06
And as to the question regarding. 02:06:07
Buffer zones. 02:06:11
Umm. 02:06:13
You know, it's it's really a more of a community standards and kind of issue rather than a strictly legal issue. 02:06:15
From the legal standpoint, my advice is really just to make sure that you're not making it so onerous. 02:06:24
That you have overly limited the number of sites that would even be available to the businesses and undercutting your regulatory 02:06:31
program. 02:06:34
Umm. 02:06:39
But in my experience, I would say we're I work with agencies that do use buffers. 02:06:40
Umm. 02:06:46
1000 feet is kind of the maximum that I see. 02:06:47
That that is certainly the the largest radius. I I would say 600 feet. 02:06:51
Is more common. 02:06:58
And sometimes even only 300 feet. 02:07:00
And that that is more aimed at. 02:07:03
Not necessarily like a police patrolling kind of rationale. It's more based on like a. 02:07:06
Odor rationale? Noise rationale? No different than you know, Maybe not wanting to have a. 02:07:15
Uh. 02:07:20
Home directly adjacent to, you know, a convenience store or a liquor store or some other kind of use where this. 02:07:21
Them being in super close proximity might not be the most compatible, so it really just depends on what. 02:07:30
That the intent of the buffer. 02:07:37
Is. 02:07:40
Thank you. 02:07:43
We sure could become. 02:07:45
For clarification. 02:07:48
Is this question for both store or both? 02:07:52
Facilities or just? 02:07:56
The retail facility. 02:07:58
So this is for both. 02:08:01
Because we are. We are. 02:08:05
Operating sort of under the the premise that the. 02:08:07
Separation requirements that were approved in the measure M. 02:08:11
Would be applied to both. 02:08:16
But again, these are all none of this is mandatory so. 02:08:19
The Commission is free to. 02:08:23
Make alternative recommendations if you. 02:08:25
If you don't. 02:08:28
Think that the same buffer should apply to the delivery only business? Then you're. 02:08:29
You're welcome to make that recommendation. 02:08:34
So if we add these. 02:08:36
Particular. 02:08:39
Recommendations. 02:08:40
Does that do the overlapping constraints then become so? 02:08:43
Onerous. 02:08:48
That we accept effectively eliminated. 02:08:49
The delivery service and we're violating the state law that goes into effect on 1st. 02:08:54
You want to answer that, Mister Miss Vega or? 02:09:02
Well, I would need to see maps essentially to make that determination. 02:09:05
But it's my understanding you you you're talking about one facility. 02:09:10
Potentially on the drug and alcohol rehabilitation. One facility on the safe parking program. 02:09:14
Umm. 02:09:20
And I would have to refer look back to the maps to see. 02:09:21
How much of your commercial and industrial is near a beach location? So you could probably kind of get a rough estimate of it just 02:09:25
based off of the maps you already have before you know the high density residential. It sounds like maybe there's. 02:09:32
There might not be a majority support for that, so maybe we figure that out first and cross that bridge if if we need to. 02:09:39
Let me make the comment and I I would prefer that we because. 02:09:50
We. 02:09:54
Limited #1 to. 02:09:55
Storefront businesses, I think we should limit this question to that and then take up the. 02:09:58
Delivery only as part of #3 or as a separate issue so that. 02:10:05
There's no question that we're talking about. 02:10:09
Storefront here. 02:10:12
Which may have different criteria or ought to have different criteria than the other, and I think that would just simplify. 02:10:14
Otherwise, we're going to get. 02:10:21
We're just going to get bogged down. 02:10:22
I'll also make the comment that. 02:10:25
Talking some time ago to the police, they do patrol the beach locations. 02:10:27
Every night, almost, it seemed. Or often. 02:10:33
For. 02:10:36
Drug abuse. So it would seem that that would be. 02:10:37
Of a viable place for them to. 02:10:40
For us to. 02:10:43
Uh. 02:10:45
And on to the list here. 02:10:47
So. 02:10:51
You you had your hand raised, Mr. Murphy. 02:10:52
And perhaps I'm not. 02:10:56
Understanding this issue, but I I would not favor an additional buffer. 02:10:57
For any of the any of the four. 02:11:02
And I again, perhaps I don't understand the purpose of a. 02:11:06
Of a buffer. 02:11:09
And the high density residential doesn't doesn't make sense to me. 02:11:10
Safe parking program. 02:11:15
The way it's. 02:11:18
Described in the agenda. 02:11:19
Perhaps that has to do with operating hours and wanting a business not to be operating after 10 or 9 so that would disturb people 02:11:22
the safe parking. 02:11:26
So I I sort of understand that. 02:11:31
And the beach part doesn't make sense to me. 02:11:34
Drug and alcohol rehabilitation. I guess the theory is you don't want to place. 02:11:37
For people trying and recovery, you don't want a place that's convenient for them to go, I guess I. 02:11:43
You know, I I'm not very familiar with the world of recovery, but. 02:11:50
Again, this doesn't make sense to me really. 02:11:55
OK, So what is our pleasure on this? 02:12:00
We were a little bit all over the map on this in terms of. 02:12:03
Let me let me go down. 02:12:10
The list and so to speak, number one, are we talking about? 02:12:11
Storefront only business with this number 2. 02:12:16
If if that's in degree, if we're in agreement on that and then we'll we'll come to a motion, so. 02:12:19
OK. So then the second question would be, there's three questions I think then. 02:12:24
Do these additional. 02:12:29
Items or should they be adopted? And then the third one is, is that 1000 foot buffer the appropriate number? So there's three 02:12:32
questions. 02:12:36
I think here. So we've answered the first one. The second one is. 02:12:41
This, this list and there's four here. 02:12:46
And. 02:12:49
You know, we've we've. 02:12:51
Kind of. 02:12:53
Under that around. 02:12:55
Commissioner Davison. 02:12:57
I would agree with that, Commissioner. 02:12:59
Murphy. 02:13:02
That I also don't necessarily see a need for separation requirements. 02:13:03
For the the four list here. 02:13:07
For the? For the what for all of the components here? 02:13:09
OK. 02:13:13
So. 02:13:14
Vice Chair Murphy and and I was just going to add for the safe parking program. 02:13:18
If if the concern is a business hour hours of operation for a business. 02:13:22
We could address that in the Commission and the conditional use permit and and limit the operating hours. 02:13:29
OK. 02:13:35
So. 02:13:37
Is there then? 02:13:39
Commissioner Sawyer. 02:13:42
I too agree with Commissioner Murphy, Vice Chair Murphy and with. 02:13:44
Mr. Davis. 02:13:51
And the chair. 02:13:52
Commissioner Davison, excuse me. 02:13:55
So if I if I hear at least three Members stating that you don't believe we should have any of these things here at all, is that? 02:13:58
My understanding, OK. 02:14:07
Umm. 02:14:09
Do you wanna make them well? The third item then is the 1000 feet. 02:14:11
Is 1000 feet. 02:14:15
The right number or. 02:14:18
Should it be less or more or? 02:14:21
Something else? 02:14:23
Less. 02:14:25
What should it be? 02:14:27
600 feet. 02:14:29
Ohh, I'm sorry. 02:14:30
600 meters. 02:14:32
Somebody better get out their calculator. 02:14:36
Mr. Campbell, just get a clarification. Sure we're talking about. 02:14:39
I I think that and I'd have to check with Erica the measure M. 02:14:43
Mentioned 1000, Can they change that for less? Yes, that was an advisory measure. 02:14:48
So it's not binding. 02:14:55
But it is indicative of what there's community support for. 02:14:58
It's possible that the community would have supported different separation requirements. You don't know, it's speculative. 02:15:03
But the Commission This Commission is free to recommend a a reduced buffer requirement for daycare centers, youth centers, 02:15:10
preschools, and and public and private schools. 02:15:15
And the City Council can decide what whether it agrees with that recommendation or not. 02:15:21
All right. 02:15:26
Fair enough. 02:15:27
So. 02:15:28
We're back to the the distance 600 meters of 1000 meters, 1000 feet, 600 feet. What are what are we talking about here? 02:15:29
Well, it sound doesn't have the votes to pass. 02:15:39
Distance doesn't matter. Since it's not, it seems like the commission's going to say, and I'm kind of leaning towards that way 02:15:43
now, is to not add additional buffers. 02:15:48
Commissioner Davidson. 02:15:54
Just as a point of clarification, I think what we're discussing right now is the additional separation requirements, but I believe 02:15:56
what you just brought up was all separation requirements, including schools and daycares. 02:16:01
Just to get everyone on the same page. 02:16:07
Right. 02:16:09
OK. 02:16:10
Correct. That was my understanding as well. And that that's how I phrased my response. I'm hearing no support for additional. 02:16:11
Buffers perhaps from at least three of you, and then the separate question is whether. 02:16:18
You would want to reduce the buffer below 1000 for the other categories that aren't listed in that bullet points on the slide. 02:16:26
Right. So maybe we should just come to a consensus if if we're going to have separation requirements for .2 and if we do want to 02:16:36
talk about. 02:16:40
Changing. 02:16:44
Yeah, buffers for 4.1. We can do that separately. 02:16:48
Lester Murphy. 02:16:53
You know, apparently we have the discretion to suggest changing the buffers, but I would really hesitate to do that. Measure M was 02:16:54
based on 1000 foot buffer. 02:16:59
It's an advisory measure, but that's why people voted for and I I don't. 02:17:03
And I'm certain the council wouldn't go along if we wanted to change it. And I I don't see any reason for us to change it, OK? 02:17:07
So then the question would be then these four items, should we? 02:17:15
Should any additional separation requirements be recommended for a cannabis business? So do I have a motion regarding this? 02:17:21
What, Commissioner Sawyer? 02:17:28
I make a motion that there be no additional separation requirements recommended for a cannabis business for. 02:17:31
Drug and alcohol rehab facilities, high density residential safe parking program locations. 02:17:40
And beach globe locations. 02:17:46
Thank you. 02:17:48
And is a. Is there a second to that? 02:17:49
I'll second that, seconded by Vice Chair Murphy. Let me add ask for clarification. That would be for storefront cannabis 02:17:52
businesses, not medicinal delivery. 02:17:56
That would be for retail, is my understanding. 02:18:01
Alright. 02:18:04
So that should be added into the motion. 02:18:05
I'm sorry. So retail includes both delivery only and storefront. So can you just clarify, is it storefront retail or delivery only 02:18:09
retail? 02:18:14
Or both. 02:18:21
In the motion. 02:18:23
I mean, can we do both and you can do both, Yes. I just want to make sure we're we're clear because it sounds like there's maybe a 02:18:25
misunderstanding as to the scope of the motion. 02:18:29
Which language should I use in? 02:18:33
Retailers. 02:18:38
I'll retail. OK, so I will amend my. 02:18:39
Motion to state that there are we're not requiring any additional separations for all retail. 02:18:43
For all retail. 02:18:50
Cannabis businesses. 02:18:51
And I accept the change. 02:18:53
All right. 02:18:55
So the motion is to not accept any additional separation requirements recommended for a cannabis retail business. 02:18:56
Are moved by. 02:19:04
Commissioner Sawyer, seconded by Vice Chair Murphy. 02:19:06
There's no further discussion. 02:19:09
That Mister Campbell, can you please call the roll? 02:19:11
Commissioner Sawyer. 02:19:15
Mr. Murphy. 02:19:19
Aye. 02:19:20
Commissioner Nizki. 02:19:22
Aye. 02:19:23
Commissioner Kubica. 02:19:24
Aye. 02:19:26
Commissioner Davidson. 02:19:27
Aye. 02:19:29
Cheer Lily I. 02:19:30
With six eyes, 0 nays and one absent. 02:19:32
The motion to not add any additional separation requirements to all retail cannabis. 02:19:36
Sales. 02:19:44
Passes. 02:19:46
Right, so now we go to #3. 02:19:49
Of the Staffs. 02:19:52
Report. 02:19:54
Should additional parameters be considered for delivery only retailers with no walk in business beyond limitations? 02:19:55
In the industrial commercial zones. 02:20:02
Then in the Bullet says staff recommends considering limitations in the downtown. 02:20:05
Commercial. 02:20:10
You know the commercial downtown zoning districts CD to preserve retail. 02:20:12
Storefront retail and promote foot traffic. 02:20:16
What does that mean? 02:20:19
I was just wondering that myself. So could you clarify that Mister Campbell, so that we understand I'd be happy to delivery only 02:20:22
or no foot, no foot traffic store. So these are the the medicinal cannabis delivery only so they would not have a storefront. 02:20:30
And to put them in our. 02:20:39
Commercial district may take up our storefronts that could be used. 02:20:41
That would encourage. 02:20:46
Economic development. You know a a storefront retail shop. 02:20:48
So we're recommending not to put them. 02:20:53
In in those storefront areas, it doesn't have to necessarily be. 02:20:56
We're not specifically saying all of that. 02:21:01
Commercial district, because we do have certain areas, we have a, we have a, a storage. 02:21:05
Unit there that has some storefronts. 02:21:11
So you could actually say. 02:21:14
We would recommend not to allow this in our commercial downtown storefronts that that's kind of where we're. 02:21:16
We're leaning toward. 02:21:23
So basically what you're saying is the staff recommends considering limitations. 02:21:28
For. 02:21:34
Medicinal. 02:21:35
Retailers. 02:21:37
Not to be in the downtown area to. 02:21:39
Keep. 02:21:43
And promote Storefront Retails for other businesses. 02:21:44
Is that what you're saying? 02:21:49
For walk in businesses, yeah, right. So similar, yeah. 02:21:51
Maybe you can maybe if I could and and and please Aaron, correct me if I'm wrong if I missed this, but kind of to flip flip how 02:21:55
it's phrased to reflect how question one was presented to essentially the delivery only medicinal businesses would be allowed in 02:22:01
your industrial and your commercial zones except for the CD district. 02:22:08
Yes. 02:22:19
That's what. 02:22:20
I think that means. 02:22:21
Can I make ask public clarification Davison March that we're having places that don't require a storefront in areas that don't 02:22:25
have storefronts. So pretty much if you're doing like van delivery. 02:22:31
You wouldn't have a storefront downtown. 02:22:37
Or am I confusing this? 02:22:41
Sure. I I'm I'm hearing this as you. 02:22:44
For the delivery, because there's no actual need for customer action. 02:22:47
That we're not putting into place that has a storefront that would then shut down customer interaction at a place that could have 02:22:51
it, Yes. OK. 02:22:55
Yes. 02:22:59
Vice Chair Murphy, you had your hand up. I I'm not familiar with how these delivery services operate. Does it delivery service? 02:23:01
Is that? 02:23:10
Is that a warehouse? 02:23:11
Plus somebody dispatching, Yeah. Or is it just the dispatch in the warehouse? Might be somewhere else. I I just don't know how it 02:23:13
works. 02:23:17
Commissioner Murphy, if I may. 02:23:21
Through the chair. A lot of. 02:23:24
Downtowns are seeing these types of delivery service businesses take up a lot of storefronts and. 02:23:27
Utilizing. 02:23:34
Good downtown space. 02:23:35
That could be so it's it does. It could hurt. 02:23:37
Economic development efforts, right? I'm sorry, get all that. I'm just asking. 02:23:40
How they work? Is it a? 02:23:45
Is it a warehouse with the product in the warehouse plus somebody or some people dispatching from their warehouse? 02:23:47
Or is when we talk about it, is it just? 02:23:54
A facility that has dispatchers. I'm trying to figure out where the. 02:23:57
The product is. 02:24:00
The product is on site. 02:24:03
Thank you. Yes, it's on site and to call it a warehouse, I mean technically perhaps, but it's nothing like you would expect of a 02:24:06
warehouse. It's it's not a large facility like you you think of with a you know online retailers or anything like that. It's it's 02:24:12
a small facility, they hold the product. 02:24:18
And they have vans or other vehicles that they use to make deliveries when purchases are made. 02:24:24
Thank you. Yeah, let let me ask Miss Vega question and this this gets into the the whole issue of. 02:24:31
Of. 02:24:39
The the delivery business. 02:24:40
The state law that was just passed. 02:24:43
We don't recall Senate Bill 1186. Is that 11? Well, whatever it is, yes. 02:24:48
There's language in it that says to the effect that you we cannot. 02:24:56
Prohibit. 02:24:59
Or or. 02:25:02
Restrict ish is the better word restrict. 02:25:03
These businesses, if it would have the effect of outlawing those visits, those. 02:25:08
Those businesses. 02:25:12
So is limiting this to the eye zone in Pacific Grove, which is basically 2 parcels. 02:25:14
Does that. 02:25:21
Kind of get into that area. 02:25:22
That's. 02:25:25
So I guess maybe point of clarification for for myself. 02:25:26
Because sometimes the I think as people are turning their heads, I'm missing some things that are being said and the mics aren't 02:25:30
picking them up. 02:25:34
So when I made the comment earlier. 02:25:39
It's my. 02:25:42
Understanding that the staff recommendation is that they be allowed in industrial and commercial. 02:25:44
But. 02:25:49
Not the CD commercial zone, but other commercial zones would be allowed. Is did I? Am I misunderstanding the staff recommendation? 02:25:50
Ohh so see 1C2C. FH yes. But again it goes into the 1000 foot buffer issue as well and so it effectively prohibits. 02:25:59
Those items really and and just about any place in the city except the eye zone. 02:26:10
I think I mean. 02:26:17
Murphy, I'm sorry, I think the ordinance the way it's written. 02:26:20
Has the the delivery located only in the I zone? Exactly, yeah, that that is how I initially drafted it. But that's essentially 02:26:24
placeholder text. I mean it I never received direction at the very, very early stage on that issue because I had it hadn't gone to 02:26:31
this Commission or the council yet. So you know it was always brought forward with sort of that as a placeholder because that was 02:26:39
my recommendation based off of my experience with other agencies, however, other agencies I work with. 02:26:46
Have much larger industrial zones. 02:26:54
So if that is the true that you only have two parcels in your entire city zoned industrial, then I think that is a something that 02:26:56
definitely should be taken into consideration. 02:27:02
Well, that seems to me to be an issue. I mean, that's just a cursory look at it. You know, you look at the zoning map, well, 02:27:08
there's only two of these. 02:27:12
Places and they're in the southeast W portion of the city. 02:27:16
Does this really work in light of the nature of this legislation that got passed? 02:27:19
That's the question I I was going to recommend that we amend our ordinance. 02:27:25
To allow it in the I zone. 02:27:30
The C2 zone. 02:27:33
In the CFH or Forest Hill zone. 02:27:35
See one? 02:27:42
Good morning. 02:27:44
Remind me. See one? 02:27:47
Like commercial? 02:27:51
And that. 02:27:53
And can I ask a clarifying question from state to staff Commissioner Davison? Yes, go ahead please. Can you clarify which zones in 02:27:55
the commercial area? So obviously not CD, but. 02:28:00
Which ones have you guys recommended? 02:28:06
So that maybe that can guide our discussion here. 02:28:09
C2. 02:28:12
Originally we expanded from just that industrial zone we were we were kicking around the C2 zone. It all puts it in that. 02:28:15
Area you know over where the lumberyard is and and it is, it is limiting. So that was kind of a question that came up to us as 02:28:25
well, are we? 02:28:28
Would we look as if we are? 02:28:33
Prohibiting by. 02:28:37
You know, we're putting in these certain areas and so. 02:28:39
The reason that we, so that's why we we threw out the commercial zones, I mean through in sorry the commercial zones, other 02:28:42
commercial zones. 02:28:46
But then the thought was. 02:28:50
Well, geez, do we want? 02:28:52
That's why we brought up the the downtown commercial and our storefronts being taken away for these purposes. And so when we're 02:28:54
looking at this additional parameters. 02:28:59
It's saying, OK, well maybe we keep it with the same parameters as the storefront retail except. 02:29:04
We don't want these to take up any of our, uh, our storefront walk in. 02:29:10
Retail stores that could take away and and limit some of our economic development. 02:29:16
Is that clear? 02:29:22
From OK. 02:29:23
Who is your Kubica? 02:29:26
Chair Lily. 02:29:28
We are already have stores downtown that take up the. We already have businesses that take up the storefronts. 02:29:29
In our downtown. 02:29:36
We have. 02:29:38
So. 02:29:40
If we go overly constraining, I mean I I wouldn't want them delivering, having deliveries during the middle of the day. 02:29:41
But, you know, I don't know if we could say that they could be in. 02:29:48
The commercial district The CD district, but limit the hours of delivery to the facility. 02:29:51
I don't know what. 02:30:00
If we already have it in town, are we overly constraining by saying we we can't do this? 02:30:02
I know that's a an issue. That's a that's a legal question. 02:30:09
Do you want to address that, Miss Vega? I don't know. Do you understand the question? I'm not sure I did, that's why I asked, but. 02:30:13
Sorry, I started to talk before I took myself off mute. 02:30:22
You know it it's really difficult to say. I mean this is a brand new law that hasn't even gone into effect yet. So we really don't 02:30:26
have any guidance on. 02:30:30
What it means to have the effect of prohibiting? 02:30:34
That is the term of art that's used in in the state law. 02:30:39
And so. 02:30:44
You know, whether an enforcing agency or a business that perhaps is looking to locate in the city. 02:30:46
Uh. 02:30:55
Challenges the city's regulations. I mean, we just don't really have any precedent that we could cite to to say that no, we're 02:30:57
within the boundaries or we're not within the boundaries. So unfortunately, I mean this is just the best I can do to answer your 02:31:01
question. 02:31:05
And certainly you know. 02:31:10
Common sense dictates that. 02:31:14
The less sites that you make available, the more likely that it would be found to have the effect of prohibiting, but I can't say 02:31:15
with any certainty you know if you. 02:31:20
If it's. 02:31:25
Two sites versus 5 sites versus 25 sites. 02:31:26
How how that would shake out in terms of a? 02:31:30
Court. 02:31:33
OK. 02:31:35
Umm. 02:31:36
So I thought I heard. 02:31:37
I've heard a couple of different things but. 02:31:40
1. 02:31:43
It was relatively clear, was in addition to the eyes that. 02:31:44
The eye zone, and that would be for. 02:31:48
Businesses, retailers, Delivery only retailers. I think I'll get that. 02:31:51
Designation right Delivery only retailers with no walk in business. 02:31:55
Would not would be allowed in the I zone. 02:32:00
And then? 02:32:05
Vice Chair Murphy said Perhaps we could change this to the commercial FH, which is Forest Hill and the Commercial. 02:32:06
2. 02:32:13
I don't know how the rest of you feel about that, but. 02:32:15
That seems to be. 02:32:18
On the face of it, more locations to get us out of the. 02:32:20
Potential quandary and it is, Miss Vegas said The law hasn't been enforced or implemented yet, but the potential quandary of. 02:32:24
Not complying with the law. 02:32:33
Commissioner Sawyer. 02:32:36
What? 02:32:39
About C1. 02:32:40
That that. 02:32:42
Let me respond to that. Well just doesn't see see one falls into the same category as C2C D and and the staff made the comment 02:32:43
about. 02:32:48
Taking up our storefronts for these these purposes and and recommended and the CD No. 02:32:55
Commissioner Davis. 02:33:02
I don't know if I'm jumping the gun here, but can I make a motion to follow staff recommendations? 02:33:04
For this question and then maybe clarification from staff of which. 02:33:11
Zones you plan for? 02:33:16
We need to let me get a second and then and then the staff can respond. I'll send, I'll get a second. 02:33:20
Invite Commissioner Nuzenski. 02:33:26
So, Mr. Campbell, whenever, whenever you're ready. 02:33:35
It's all in the buffer. 02:33:39
Let me let me. 02:33:43
You know this to Erica real quick to see if. 02:33:45
We can we, I mean it's no problem to add these zones or or be specific we can say any of them. 02:33:52
And and I think I do. 02:33:57
Yes, it does. Does Eric, do you have any comment on this at all or? 02:34:03
Umm. 02:34:08
I mean. 02:34:09
I think my my comment is is that. 02:34:10
I believe that Staffs concern regarding preserving your sort of walk in retail spaces for economic development purposes is. 02:34:13
Correct. Indefensible. It's a it's a reasonable justification for excluding some of your commercial zones. 02:34:23
And then I would, I would, I would punt it back to to you all to tell me. 02:34:29
What zones those are? I know it's CD. 02:34:33
Umm. 02:34:36
Are there others? 02:34:37
Uh. 02:34:39
And if that. 02:34:40
Has the effect of, you know. 02:34:41
Eliminating all of your commercial zones, then I think we need to take a look at well, well, which commercial zones. 02:34:44
Umm. 02:34:51
Would be perhaps at least a little bit more appropriate. Maybe they're a little bit more auto centric than pedestrian centric and 02:34:52
and have those discussions. 02:34:56
Umm. 02:35:00
From a legal standpoint. 02:35:02
It's hard to say. I mean if if it's true that industrial only has two parcels, then I would suggest you do add something in 02:35:06
addition to industrial. 02:35:11
But I I don't know your zoning. 02:35:16
And well enough to be able to say specifically that the characteristics of your your commercial zones, which ones are suited to? 02:35:20
Sort of a delivery only business versus those that aren't. 02:35:29
Mr. 02:35:37
Campbell, I'll recognize you. To further elaborate, while you, you referred a question to Miss Vegas, so do you want to? 02:35:38
Continually comments or. 02:35:44
If we're going to tag team this one with anesthesia, yeah, if you don't mind, Director, why now? 02:35:47
Ohh. 02:35:52
Chair Lily. 02:35:53
We. 02:35:55
I think the idea I'm going back to. 02:35:56
Question one here. 02:35:59
Where we recommend. 02:36:01
At retailers be allowed. 02:36:03
And and you had mentioned Forest Hill commercial including that is an area. So I'm just going back to one where we. 02:36:05
Where you. 02:36:14
Approved to have cannabis. 02:36:15
To be allowed and I think you had mentioned some of these, so to add on. 02:36:17
To. 02:36:22
Umm. 02:36:23
Besides just the industrial area and added a few additional areas I think that would. 02:36:25
Be prudent and. 02:36:30
Exclude the commercial. 02:36:32
Downtown Commercial district. 02:36:34
And then I will if you if if the. 02:36:36
Through the chair, if you don't mind. I I think again, like the the idea behind this was preservation of our downtown area. So 02:36:40
Forest Hill. 02:36:44
And and those commercial areas and they're the even the C1 there are two, two little ones up in that Forest Hill area, there's 02:36:50
another one down by couple down by lighthouse those those areas as well. 02:36:57
So it the the main impetus for this for our recommendation was preserving our downtown. 02:37:03
Yeah. 02:37:11
As you want. 02:37:14
So that would be the downtown would be CD. 02:37:15
Right, correct. 02:37:19
So. 02:37:21
You made a recommended motion, Commissioner Davison, so I need the more the recommendation to clarify it. Please leave it to you 02:37:25
or I'll, I'll try to do my best on that clarifying to include industrial. 02:37:33
And commercial outside of CD? 02:37:41
Umm. 02:37:45
For yeah. 02:37:47
The non retailer, Yeah, OK. And that would be for. 02:37:49
Medical. 02:37:53
Delivery. 02:37:54
No storefront. 02:37:56
For. 02:37:58
Delivery Retail only. 02:37:59
Additional delivery retail only. We'll get the terms for delivery only, Yeah. 02:38:02
All right. 02:38:06
And. 02:38:07
What about the 1000 foot buffer? 02:38:09
That applies. That applies. 02:38:12
OK. 02:38:15
So that was moved by Commissioner Davis and seconded by Commissioner Nuzenski. Does everybody understand the motion? Hmm. 02:38:17
And that would be to allow. 02:38:25
That would be allowed retailers who are involved in only medicinal. 02:38:29
Delivery. 02:38:34
To be in the I zone and all see except CD. 02:38:35
Umm, with consideration of 1000 foot. 02:38:38
Cannabis buffer. 02:38:42
So. 02:38:43
If there's no further discussion. 02:38:44
Commissioner. 02:38:46
Could we cut? Had your hands ready, raised and then Vice Chair Murphy. 02:38:47
If I look at the the 1000 foot buffler buffers. 02:38:53
We're to the point where we're only. 02:38:58
Having one or two people, one or two. 02:39:01
Parcels available even if we included CD. 02:39:04
So it's not like we're eliminating a whole lot. So we're. 02:39:08
And if we. 02:39:12
And I don't know whether that two or three parcels. 02:39:19
In relation to the total number of parcels that are available. So I don't know if that's a percentage, a small percentage or a 02:39:22
large percentage. I don't know if you would know that number off the top of your head. 02:39:27
You know from being clear. 02:39:34
Do you would you like me to please it is it is a small number the the current no and I I that's what I would like to stress on 02:39:38
that the current buffer. 02:39:42
Does cover most of our commercial downtown. 02:39:48
Now. 02:39:52
And and it it does just by just by looking at that, we didn't do any exact numbers, but it does look like you know 85% something, 02:39:53
something large. 02:39:57
But when we think about. 02:40:03
The future, we think about things that could change and so we're just wanting to do this is more of a protective action for the 02:40:05
future. 02:40:08
If I may in the commercial. 02:40:12
Town thank you. 02:40:15
Chair in the commercial. Downtown in the Buffer. 02:40:17
With the buffers, there's. 02:40:20
It looks like 3 parcels that three or four or five parcels out of the entire downtown, so it's not excluding much. 02:40:22
But by opening it up to as you have. 02:40:30
OK. 02:40:34
As you recommended to open it up like to other commercial districts, it does. 02:40:36
Offer quite a bit more. 02:40:42
So we have a motion on, did you have a question Vice Chair Murphy or comment? I I don't remember what's in the ordinance. 02:40:45
Ohh we assuming. 02:40:52
Only one. 02:40:54
Medicinal delivery service or as many as As applied, what do we have any limit on? How many? 02:40:56
We we are going to allow. 02:41:02
Eric, good. Would it be alright if Erica answered that for us please? 02:41:05
Yeah, the ordinance doesn't currently have a limit on the number. 02:41:09
Umm. 02:41:13
That is something that the Council could entertain. 02:41:14
When it reviews these again and provides additional feedback. 02:41:17
Umm. 02:41:21
Would would state law allow us, it could potentially you just again it has to be kind of looked at holistically whether you know 02:41:22
on on the whole your regular your regulatory program has the effect of prohibiting the businesses by being too onerous. 02:41:31
So it's something we kind of have to take a take a look at once we get. 02:41:40
Um, feedback on the direction on, you know, the sites where we'd even they'd even be allowed? 02:41:45
If we take the additional step of then limiting the number, would that be maybe a bit too much? 02:41:51
So it's something that we we would have to assess actually after we kind of get through tonight and get through our 02:41:59
recommendations and see where where things lie. 02:42:03
All right. So is there a desire then, based on Miss Vegas comments, is their desire to limit the number? 02:42:10
Of these things. 02:42:16
Should we? 02:42:19
Pin the motion. Let me ask you this, should we append the motion to? 02:42:21
Consider this a later date. Right there, I don't know. 02:42:26
If I could offer I I think it actually is better to not change your motion. Instead of mix adding additional layers onto the 02:42:30
motion, you've got a discrete motion on the zoning. 02:42:35
See what support it gets and then you can move on and make new motions based off of additional discussion you might have versus 02:42:42
trying to layer 3234 issues into one motion. 02:42:47
OK. 02:42:53
Thank you. 02:42:54
So if there's no further questions then. 02:42:56
Or comments from anybody, Can you, would you please call the roll, Mr. Campbell? 02:42:59
Yes. 02:43:04
And everybody understands the motion. 02:43:05
Hmm. 02:43:07
Alright. 02:43:09
Mr. Davidson. 02:43:12
Aye. 02:43:13
Commissioner Zinski. 02:43:14
Commissioner Kubica. 02:43:17
Aye. 02:43:18
Commissioner Sawyer. 02:43:20
Vice Chair Murphy. 02:43:22
Aye. 02:43:23
Sure, Lily. 02:43:24
Aye. 02:43:26
With six eyes, 0 nays and one absent. 02:43:28
The motion. 02:43:32
To allow. 02:43:34
Medicinal delivery only retail cannabis. 02:43:36
In the eye district and commercial districts, excluding. 02:43:42
The downtown commercial CD district. 02:43:46
It passes. 02:43:48
OK. Thank you. So the motion passes, so we're ready to move on. 02:43:50
Let me go through some of the items that I had. 02:43:54
Pointed out. And I'm going to start with chapter 2392 because that's zoning thing. 02:43:57
And some of these are are observations and. 02:44:03
May. 02:44:07
Be disposed of very quickly. 02:44:08
That's up to the Commission, but. 02:44:11
Let me refer first to. 02:44:13
Chap and the proposed ordinance that Miss Vega put together. 02:44:15
I believe it was SHE 239201 No 010 or 010, purpose and intent. 02:44:19
In subsection, A says and to promote the health, safety, morals and general welfare of the residences and businesses in the city. 02:44:27
And the question I had on that is how does the chapter do that? 02:44:35
Is it appropriate to state that limitations? 02:44:38
To one cannabis retailer. 02:44:41
And there would be storefront retailer. 02:44:44
Is proposed. 02:44:46
That language promotes this subsection. 02:44:47
As found in the there's a number of where as is in in the introduction to the ordinance and it's the 7th 1:00. 02:44:51
That says that. 02:44:58
The, the, the location or the limitation of these things does promote the health and welfare of the the community. That's the 02:45:00
only. 02:45:03
Reason in or or basis in this entire ordinance that would be supportive of that. 02:45:09
That observation and I just wanted. 02:45:16
Commission to to weigh in on that, or at least ask you to consider that. 02:45:18
So. 02:45:24
Any any comments? 02:45:25
I. 02:45:27
I guess I don't think it's necessary I think. 02:45:30
The. 02:45:32
The ordinance is designed to have a rational and reasonable. 02:45:34
Approach so that. 02:45:38
I guess I don't see a need, all right. 02:45:40
Is there any Commissioner Sawyer? 02:45:43
Well. 02:45:46
I really had a problem with how it was going to promote the morals, I mean. 02:45:47
Are we judge and jury? I just, I totally agree with Vice Chair Murphy. I don't think we need that part. 02:45:53
So do we need a? Maybe we should just go through and and. 02:46:01
Can we go through and make an emotion on each one of these or or in total if we? 02:46:06
If we have the same response to a number of these things. Either way, whatever your pleasure is. 02:46:12
You know to go through and make a motion on some of these things may not. 02:46:18
Asked Miss Vega. Miss Vega, do you have any comment or? 02:46:23
So you're not really commenting on substantive provisions, you're this language relates to the sort of the the? 02:46:26
Standard language that we see. 02:46:36
Pertaining to the city zoning and police powers. 02:46:40
Sort of Typically used in almost every local ordinance that gets adopted ordinances. 02:46:42
Are adopted to promote the public. 02:46:48
Health, safety, welfare piece, morals, things like that. 02:46:51
If you disagree with any of it, to be perfectly honest, none of this is legally required and you could just recommend that that 02:46:55
paragraph or that entire section be eliminated from the ordinance if. 02:47:01
And that would probably be a lot quicker than going through word by word and deciding which words you like and which word words 02:47:07
you don't like. 02:47:12
No, we like I mean I I I brought it up because I thought it was appropriate. I don't want to eliminate it. I just wanted. 02:47:17
Concurrence from the Commission, based upon the comments of one of the other Commissioners to me. 02:47:23
That and it was stated, How does this promote that the the morals of the community? 02:47:28
My response to that would be this provision in the. 02:47:34
The resolution the whereas is in the front answers that question. That's all I'm saying. 02:47:37
And I brought it up because it needed to be brought up. 02:47:43
That's all I'm saying, Commissioner Davison. 02:47:46
Can I ask a clarifying question on that? 02:47:48
Is. 02:47:50
Is that statute in there to justify policing in response to the law? 02:47:51
Commissioner, I mean Miss Vega. 02:47:59
So I just want to make sure I'm I'm understanding. Are you referring to the purpose and intent statement in the that was read off 02:48:02
the paragraph? 02:48:06
Yeah, yes, yeah. 02:48:11
So it's it's, you know, there's enforcement provisions that do that. This is sort of a standard, somewhat standard language that's 02:48:13
used in ordinances to when we want to show that we're just show that we were. 02:48:21
At least thinking about the how the ordinance relates to the city's police powers and authority to adopt the regulations. 02:48:30
Which we not only have our general police powers, which are Section 7 of Article 11 of the California Constitution, but there's 02:48:38
also specific statutory authority in the Business and Professions Code that allows the comments. And so it's really just. 02:48:45
Citing to the applicable laws that authorize this ordinance. 02:48:52
OK, so to to that end, are a lot of these kind of within that realm where generally it's what might be more thought of as like 02:48:55
template? 02:48:59
Legal legalese or legal code that. 02:49:04
Yeah, to a certain degree. You know, we typically modify just based off of whatever the subject ordinance is about. And so if you 02:49:07
think that this particular section needs to be beefed up as it were and include a little bit more of an explanation that that's 02:49:12
something that we can do, we can and I don't think we need to have it rewritten from the dyess, but we can take that direction in 02:49:17
and. 02:49:23
Provide more detailed explanation in this section if you think it's appropriate. 02:49:28
OK. Thank you. So how did you all feel about that? I mean, I. 02:49:34
I I think if it's not substantive, if it's not something that will actually change what's happening, then maybe we don't have to 02:49:38
review it. 02:49:40
And so if maybe there's guidance on the the components that are more substantive or if someone has commentary on substantive ones, 02:49:44
maybe we make those changes or discuss those. 02:49:49
OK. 02:49:53
Any other further comment about that? 02:49:54
Hmm. 02:49:56
Umm. 02:50:01
Let me move on then. 02:50:02
2392020 relationship to other laws. 02:50:07
This gets into. 02:50:11
Chapter 11. This This is a This is an issue that we need to to grapple with, I think, to some extent. 02:50:17
Umm. 02:50:24
We have two ordinances here. 02:50:27
And really, the question comes down to. 02:50:29
Do we need 2 ordinances to do this? 02:50:32
And. 02:50:35
There are. 02:50:36
There are sections in each ordinance that are are mirror the other, but they don't and so should they we refer. 02:50:39
Should one ordinance refer to the other by reference only? 02:50:46
Should they be the same because we have differences, for example and definitions in the next one? 02:50:50
And. 02:50:58
Should they be the same where, where, where they're applicable? One of the ordinances which is more operations Orient one is more 02:50:59
zoning ordinance. I understand that. 02:51:04
That difference but. 02:51:08
Perhaps it's just something that needs to be? 02:51:10
Review you know, by staff. I I don't know. 02:51:13
But that I just bring this up because I as I'm going through this stuff and notice these provisions and noticing these these 02:51:16
things. 02:51:20
It came to mind. 02:51:25
About that so. 02:51:27
I'll answer the question of you. Why? Why 2 ordinances? 02:51:30
And and I will say up front that two ordinances is absolutely standard. 02:51:34
OK. If you think about it in terms of your typical applications. 02:51:40
Right you. 02:51:45
You look at uses, not users. 02:51:46
The dual licensing and use permit approach allows the city to both regulate the use. 02:51:50
And the user, so for your standard conditional use permit. 02:51:57
Say you IT you approve a conditional use permit for a medical office. 02:52:02
You may know who who the user is going to be at the time of the application, but once the right to that use vest. 02:52:08
It can change. 02:52:15
And it doesn't come back to the Planning Commission because there's a change in the occupant, the change in the entity that's 02:52:17
running the business as long as the business type is the same and it's what you've approved and it's in compliance with your 02:52:21
conditions of approval. 02:52:26
Having a dual track. 02:52:30
System that has uh. 02:52:33
Renewable license on top of A use permit gives the city the ability to regulate the user. 02:52:35
So now it's not just about the use, it's about the specific business that's operating, the backgrounds of the individuals 02:52:43
operating the business and things like that. 02:52:47
So that is the purpose of having two ordinances, and. 02:52:53
And. 02:52:56
I would not suggest that you combine them. 02:52:57
Unless the city is interested in in having less onerous regulations, if you want, if you're taking more of A. 02:52:59
Less is more deregulation kind of approach and you you think that we just ought to take a free market approach is probably the 02:53:07
best way of putting it, then certainly you could do that. But if your intent is to regulate the users then it's the dual track 02:53:12
ordinances. 02:53:16
All right. 02:53:22
Commissioner Sawyer. 02:53:24
I I understand the premise. 02:53:26
For the the two ordinances it makes sense. 02:53:30
However. 02:53:34
When you're reading one and then you read the other, they don't always match. Is there some way? 02:53:35
So that they're both saying this sort of the same. 02:53:42
Thing when they're talking about the same subject, because that's the problem. 02:53:46
That I'm seeing it's not written so that it makes sense when you compare the two side by side. 02:53:50
That's the part that I'm having a lot of problem with. 02:53:57
I understand that you want to. 02:54:01
Umm. 02:54:04
Legislate the user and the use. That makes perfect sense to me. 02:54:05
However. 02:54:10
Language should match. 02:54:11
I mean, I'm just really having a problem with that. 02:54:14
I'm. 02:54:18
I'm not aware of any specific instances of that, but these are drafts. 02:54:19
Their works in progress, and if you have a list of inconsistencies that you think you've identified, I'm happy to review those 02:54:24
and. 02:54:28
Determine if edits need to be made to either draft to make sure things are consistent across the board. 02:54:33
But sometimes. 02:54:40
Some sometimes things. 02:54:42
Things might be intentionally different, which is the one thing that I I would say to you as well. So and I can always provide an 02:54:44
explanation of why that is, but I would I would need specific examples to look at. 02:54:49
Let let me elaborate on that a little bit. There are and you said the. 02:54:56
Proper words, Miss Vega sometimes. 02:55:00
They need to be intentionally different and and those. 02:55:03
Examples do exist. 02:55:06
There are other examples where. 02:55:08
Definitions, for example. Should they be the same? 02:55:10
You know when you say? 02:55:13
And I I. 02:55:15
Find an example here. 02:55:17
But when we define. 02:55:19
In the. 02:55:23
The situation. 02:55:23
Licensed premises say. 02:55:29
And I'm not sure which if if they are different from each one, but I I would just prefer that. 02:55:31
Where they need to be the same or where they need it needs to be in the ordinance that it's it's it's clear that they're the same. 02:55:38
And I'm not sure that's the case. 02:55:44
This also spills over into. 02:55:47
One of the other two of the other major issues and let me. 02:55:49
Go into that a little bit and that's the. 02:55:54
Who? Who should select the storefront cannabis? 02:55:57
Local licensee. 02:56:03
And how should what is the process for that to be done? Those are major questions. 02:56:05
And some of these other things about well, should the ordinances match, and so on and sore forth. 02:56:10
We probably should defer that and maybe even to the point where. 02:56:17
It's. 02:56:21
Be appropriate to separately offline? 02:56:21
Send you a list and have you review that? 02:56:24
I I don't know what your pleasure is, but that may be the the most practical way to save time. 02:56:27
Because otherwise we sit around here and and and and go around and around and around about definitions and. 02:56:32
Look, try to look things up and do things from the diet that should have been. 02:56:38
Maybe. 02:56:41
We should, we should have heard, done before myself. 02:56:42
But. 02:56:45
If I can move on then. 02:56:47
One of the major questions and this applies. 02:56:50
To both. 02:56:54
Ordinances, but especially. 02:56:56
Chapter 11. 02:56:58
Who should select? 02:56:59
I have it as the third thing in my list. 02:57:00
Who should select the storefront cannabis retail licensee and let me read this as proposed, the selection of a single? 02:57:03
Storefront cannabis retailer wouldn't involve a local 2 step process. 02:57:10
The first one involved the selection of an applicant for a license. 02:57:15
Upon selection as a Licensee. 02:57:19
Our local licensee that the applicant would then proceed to obtain a conditional use permit to operate. 02:57:22
The applicant would then need to obtain a city business license and comply with state licensing. 02:57:28
Umm. 02:57:36
Statutes. 02:57:37
So. 02:57:39
Then then further down in in in #11, the draft ordinance gives the city manager authority to select the licensee. 02:57:41
However, many have suggested that a citizen or stakeholders committee be formed to review applications and select a licensee. That 02:57:49
is a key question. 02:57:53
And the question and then and then it follows. The next question is. 02:57:58
How should a storefront cannabis licensee be selected? 02:58:04
And there are at least a couple of alternatives. There may be more I I'm just going to throw these out. One is. 02:58:08
The use of an object objective set of criteria. 02:58:13
The second is a lottery among the top applicants. 02:58:16
And perhaps eligibility for the lottery could be determined by the use of of objective criteria as well. 02:58:20
And it seems though these, these are the major issues. You know, we've talked about three of them. We've talked about the 02:58:28
storefront. 02:58:31
The. 02:58:35
The additional restrictions that 1000 feet. 02:58:36
The medicinal delivery only, but these two other things are are, are. 02:58:40
Pretty fundamental, I think, to the what we heard at the City Council. 02:58:45
And as I've gone through the. 02:58:49
The license. 02:58:51
Proposed licenses or the proposed ordinances, I should say. 02:58:53
So I I'm interested in hearing what the Commission has to say about I don't know if you want to talk about how first or who. 02:58:57
1st. 02:59:03
What what is your pleasure? But we we need to come to some agreement about that because that potentially one way or the other 02:59:04
could change the way these things are drafted. 02:59:09
That's my comment. 02:59:15
Vice Chair Murphy. 02:59:16
Well, you, you ask. 02:59:18
To you know what? 02:59:19
We thought, and you may not like what we think. Well, no, that no. That's why when I wrote all these things, I wrote them in 02:59:21
questions. I don't know. This is the part that I don't think is up to us. It has nothing to do with land use or or zoning. I know 02:59:26
the process tangentially. 02:59:31
You know, touches the. 02:59:37
Are, you know, Chapter 23, but this is an operational thing that. 02:59:39
You know the the City Council should set policy and the operation how it works is is done by staff and I I just don't think it's 02:59:45
up to us to. 02:59:50
I mean. 02:59:55
You know, we certainly have the right to offer an opinion, but I I just. 02:59:56
Don't feel comfortable doing so. 03:00:00
OK. 03:00:03
That's fine. 03:00:05
Who else wants to make a comment? 03:00:07
Commissioner Sawyer. 03:00:10
I agree. 03:00:12
With Vice Chair Murphy, I just think this is sort of out of our purview. So it's it's. 03:00:13
A subject that I think could certainly be covered by. 03:00:19
The council and the staff, I mean. 03:00:22
Any other comments? I mean the part. 03:00:28
That you touched on that I think. 03:00:31
I'm confused about and. We should have clarity. 03:00:33
The the path to approval of of someone who's gonna operate this this retail. 03:00:36
And as you said, they have a state license, they need a business license, the local license. 03:00:42
Our conditional use permit. 03:00:48
And it's not clear when you read the two ordinances. 03:00:50
When the person. 03:00:54
And picks out our picks out a property. 03:00:56
And you know clearly that that that has to be done by the time. 03:00:59
We give a conditional use permit. 03:01:03
But it's but it's not clear along the way when they. 03:01:06
It seems the way the ordinance is written, when they apply for a license, they do not have to have a property. On the one hand, it 03:01:10
sounds as if they don't have a property. 03:01:15
Picked out. 03:01:19
On the other hand, they supposed to have the signature of the property owner. It's just confusing to me. 03:01:20
Well, that that, that, let me make a comment about that's a valid concern because in the Chapter 11 ordinance. 03:01:26
It states as one of the criteria for review. 03:01:32
By the city manager in the case of the way it's written. 03:01:36
That. 03:01:38
There will be, as you said, the the the property owner will have signed off. Well, how can you require that? 03:01:39
When? 03:01:46
People are also saying the reason why we have this part of the process is so that the applicant doesn't have to go get property. 03:01:48
And and put themselves at risk before they know that they're in really in the hunt. 03:01:54
Yeah. So that may be. 03:01:59
Maybe. 03:02:01
Clarify on that please. 03:02:02
And just just to be perfectly blunt about it, that's just an inconsistency in the drafting. I initially drafted it. 03:02:05
Based off of an the premise that they would have identified a property. 03:02:12
Already. 03:02:19
And then in workshopping the draft and and in multiple rounds of discussion that concern with concern about that approach was 03:02:20
raised. 03:02:24
And I revised the ordinance to allow them to identify a property after the fact. And you you have spotted for me an additional 03:02:28
provision I needed to change. 03:02:33
That I did not catch, So that's why we do drafting in multiple multiple sets of eyes on it and. 03:02:39
And it's something I would certainly have caught in a subsequent revision, but I haven't subsequently revised these in a little 03:02:46
bit of time. 03:02:49
So. 03:02:54
And if I may, which? 03:02:55
After you clean it up, which which way will it work? They will have. 03:02:58
Electrical property based off of the based off of the the previous direction I received and that's not to say that's. 03:03:02
Set in you know stone. It can change. 03:03:08
But based off of the the most recent direction I received, they would identify a property after they received their license. 03:03:13
So essentially they would be vetted. 03:03:21
Do their background checks vetted as an operator that they are the quality that the city is looking for and then they would have a 03:03:24
certain amount of time to then go find a location to put their business. 03:03:30
But doesn't. 03:03:37
Chapter 11 as it's written now. 03:03:38
When they apply for the license. 03:03:41
Don't they have to describe the property and how it's going to be divided inside, et cetera, et cetera? 03:03:43
Correct and and they. 03:03:49
We can look more closely at that. They can provide like kind of rough schematics of what they would intend to do, especially if 03:03:51
they have other locations. 03:03:56
But it wouldn't necessarily be set in stone until they identify a specific location. 03:04:01
So they could get. 03:04:09
Are. 03:04:11
Our cannabis license without identifying or having a specific location. 03:04:12
A license, yes, but not the use permit. 03:04:17
Yeah. OK. Thank you to to further amplify. 03:04:20
Your comment miss Vega section. 03:04:25
Large or capital B1B requires a floor plan designating all interior dimensions, so it's more than just authorization. 03:04:28
Of. 03:04:36
The property owner. There's also this provision. 03:04:37
Says, you know, quote a floor plan designating all interior dimensions, et cetera. 03:04:40
And that's what we're, I mean the comment how can the city require a floor plan for initial local license review? 03:04:46
When other provisions provide. 03:04:51
Time for the applicant to secure. 03:04:54
Property. I think we've beaten that one to death, but I I just wanted to. 03:04:56
And then the well to to your point to to the point of this discussion though I mean it can be done either way. 03:05:02
And if the Commission or the Council? 03:05:08
You know. 03:05:10
Discusses it and decides that it prefers one way versus another. The drafts can be modified to accommodate that as as of right 03:05:11
now, you know you have identified some inconsistencies because it was drafted one way initially, then some changes were made and 03:05:17
it didn't catch all of the edits that needed to be made to the licensing ordinance as a result of revisions I made to the zoning 03:05:23
ordinance and that's on me. I can accept that. 03:05:28
No, but but if you disagree. 03:05:35
And you think that they should be required to have a location at the licensing stage, then that's a fair comment and and that's a 03:05:38
recommendation that you could choose to make. 03:05:42
Let me make the comment that. 03:05:49
I I think it needs to be, I think the City Council. 03:05:51
Rather made it clear, but if we were to include this. 03:05:55
Provision. 03:05:59
In the the ordinance and the and the the Chapter 11 ordinance then there there's no need for they're doing the use permit and then 03:06:00
it's it's an illegal action. I well, I don't know if it's illegal action but it's certainly not. 03:06:06
In concert with our Co where the Planning Commission issues user reviews and issues. 03:06:12
Use permits. 03:06:17
So. 03:06:18
You know. 03:06:20
There there may be some legal issues there I don't know, but I I just, I just think we we continue to keep that out of the 03:06:21
ordinance. So that or you change. 03:06:26
Chapter 11 As you You said you You might or you would, but. 03:06:32
I don't know if the the Commission feels that we need to take a stand on that issue, but. 03:06:36
You know, that's up to you, but. 03:06:41
So you're you're you're suggesting that the application. 03:06:43
And be without a specific property, just just focus on the. 03:06:47
The licensee, we need to say that maybe we should say that because that that's the whole thing. You know, where where there's 03:06:51
supposed to be a division of responsibility and authority between these two ordinances is, is Miss Vega pointed out the users, you 03:06:58
know, she said if you want to go to the less regulatory approach, the lazy, fair approach, so to speak. 03:07:04
Then combine them into one. Well, we keep them AS2, but then we need to make sure that they're properly divided. 03:07:11
So there there's. 03:07:18
Division, authority or division of responsibility there. 03:07:20
That's that's my point. 03:07:23
Like sure. Murphy. Miss Vega, if. 03:07:27
If we went in that direction and asked for the application. 03:07:30
To be you know, without, without a profit or property mentioned. 03:07:34
The part of Chapter 11. 03:07:40
That talks about. 03:07:43
Umm. 03:07:45
Again the the physical property. 03:07:46
That would disappear from Chapter 11, and all of that kind of material would be in chapter 23 is. That's maybe an 03:07:49
oversimplification simplification, but I think you know what I mean. 03:07:54
Yes, I think I do understand what you're trying to get at. Yes, and and yeah, if. 03:08:00
If we receive the direction. 03:08:05
To defer. 03:08:08
And he thinks that's location specific to the use permit phase, then yes, that would be the case. Anything location specific would 03:08:10
be a part of the use permit as opposed to the licensing phase. 03:08:16
And would you would what? 03:08:22
Would you advise this on the wisdom of? 03:08:24
Doing it that way, it is one way better than the other in your in your mind. 03:08:26
I would say they have pros and cons. I've I've worked with jurisdictions that do it both both ways. 03:08:31
And and in jurisdictions that. 03:08:37
Require the location to be. 03:08:41
Identified up front. 03:08:44
It has in the past created a bit of a. 03:08:47
Frenzy to secure a location. Also it requires a business to, you know, undertake some sometimes pretty significant financial 03:08:50
obligations before they even received a license. 03:08:58
In terms of signing a lease or a letter of intent that they've had to pay a good amount of money to get to secure a right to a 03:09:06
location. 03:09:10
And so if you're looking to. 03:09:14
You know, maybe expand? 03:09:18
The number of potential applicants? The applicant pool. 03:09:20
It could be beneficial to defer that to a later phase to. 03:09:25
Eliminate some cost burden. 03:09:30
And competitiveness in the real estate market, though? 03:09:32
Especially in a situation where you you're only allowing 1 storefront business. 03:09:36
Which increases the competition to begin with. 03:09:42
Given what Miss Vegas said. 03:09:46
I think I'm prepared to suggest that we. 03:09:48
Remove. 03:09:52
Or defer the location decision, take that out of the licensing. 03:09:53
Chapter and put it all of. 03:09:57
The geography stuff in in. 03:10:00
In chapter 23. 03:10:02
OK. 03:10:04
You you want to make a motion to that effect. 03:10:05
I don't know the right way to say it, but. 03:10:08
Let me. 03:10:12
I think the way you said it works for me, I I understand that direction. 03:10:12
Yeah. 03:10:18
And just staff. Does that make sense to staff? 03:10:19
And do you have? 03:10:22
Any reaction or comments? Or do you? 03:10:24
One way or the other. 03:10:26
Through the chair I I actually, I I I like the way that Erica. 03:10:30
Explained the two different ordinances, one as. 03:10:35
A user and and one is a use. 03:10:39
And I think that taking out those. 03:10:43
It clarifies a little bit more, it seems to. 03:10:46
So the motion then would be somewhere along the lines that during the application process. 03:10:50
Applicant would not specify a specific. 03:10:56
Property. 03:10:59
And. 03:11:01
All of the property related. 03:11:03
A material that's currently in. 03:11:06
Chapter 11. 03:11:09
Would be moved as appropriately into. 03:11:10
Into chapter 23. 03:11:13
Is that? 03:11:16
Does that make sense? 03:11:19
The, if I may, the difficult part for the the zoning aspect of it would be in our review. 03:11:21
Umm. 03:11:28
Without an objective standard. 03:11:29
Like it mentions the floor plans and making sure that it looks a certain way. 03:11:32
And all of that would be in. 03:11:39
Title Chapter 23, so that that's difficult I think. 03:11:40
Or chapter 23 because. 03:11:45
Unless so, I think the the idea, I don't know if you've seen some of the pictures that were shown. 03:11:48
I don't know if it was Eric as they wanted somebody. There was one that was showing, Hey, these designer. 03:11:55
Cannabis retail shops, if they look like XY and Z and in that I think that was part of the the business licensing to vet the the 03:12:03
user the license like if they had other other stores. So this is the type of store that you would get. 03:12:11
To put that into zoning, you would. 03:12:19
It seems like there would be an an error. Could correct me if I'm wrong, but if we throw it into zoning, we just need some 03:12:22
objective standards by which to to to be guided. 03:12:27
So when they're looking at the user, like say it's. 03:12:34
You know. 03:12:38
ABC Pothouse versus, you know, King City. I don't know anything you know, one might have. 03:12:40
A a different reputation or it might have something that that when you're when you're judging on the license. 03:12:48
And the person who's getting. 03:12:53
It's not something that I personally would want to make a call on unless I had very specific standards. 03:12:55
To do that, they they could do that. 03:13:03
They could do that, I believe, without reference to a specific property. 03:13:07
Yes. And they wouldn't, that wouldn't, you know, Yes, yes, absolutely, absolutely. Yes. Well, that gets into qualifications. Yeah 03:13:12
And and but. 03:13:16
When we look at use permit applications, architectural permit applications on on appeal and all that, we're looking at drawings, 03:13:21
we're looking at all of that. 03:13:25
And that's all I'm saying is that. 03:13:30
So for the. 03:13:32
That become part and parcel of the licensing process. 03:13:34
Before it ever gets to the use permit. It's contradictory. So what? Why? Why have a use permit process? Then? It's it's all one. 03:13:38
So that that makes no sense. 03:13:45
If you're gonna have two separate ordinances. 03:13:48
Then you can talk about. 03:13:50
The the so-called drawings. This written in here is as as samples of what they've done before is their qualifications. 03:13:53
But in terms of the actual location, you can't possibly. 03:14:00
Describe in drawings a location without the property exists. I believe it looks like Erica one. Yeah. So I think what we want to 03:14:04
distinguish between here would probably be the interior and the exterior. So from the the use permit standpoint, you know this is 03:14:11
a a retail use that's going to be coming in and you would apply the standards that apply in the applicable zone to a retail use 03:14:19
that would apply to any other business unless you have cannabis, anything cannabis business specific. 03:14:26
That you decide to include in these ordinances. 03:14:34
On the exterior in terms of the design and whatnot. 03:14:37
What we're looking at on the licensing side would kind of sort of be like the interior design spec level, you know versus the, so 03:14:41
it looks a little bit. 03:14:46
I don't want to say that there's any specific kind of guidance I've been given because I haven't, but I think that is a factor 03:14:53
that. 03:14:57
We would want to look at. 03:15:02
In terms of selecting the storefront retailer. 03:15:03
What are what are they proposing in terms of? 03:15:08
Interior space, how is that, how is that going to look And so that's but interior design is not something that the Planning 03:15:11
Commission would normally look at. You know you're, you're looking at the the, the exterior of the building and how it relates to 03:15:18
the broader neighborhood and the and and impacts on the community at large not you know. 03:15:25
What building materials they decide to use on the interior and you know, fabrics and wood types and things like that. 03:15:33
If I can, and if we can get back to your motion, it sounds as though your. 03:15:46
Recommending that the location. 03:15:52
Not be obtained prior. 03:15:56
To licensing, right. Correct. So so and and after that whatever logical. 03:15:58
Once you accept that as a premise. 03:16:06
You take a close look at Chapter 11. 03:16:08
And remove the unnecessary parts. 03:16:11
And decide what among those is necessary. 03:16:14
To put into. 03:16:18
Chapter 23. 03:16:19
How would we put that in one motion, Erica? 03:16:22
I think. 03:16:27
Uh. 03:16:29
I mean I I understand. I feel like I understand what what the the motion is and and I guess if I just rephrase my understanding 03:16:30
maybe that would help is that? 03:16:35
Implement the direction. 03:16:42
That a licensee not have to identify a location. 03:16:44
Until after they've been granted a license. 03:16:49
By removing any provisions. 03:16:53
In. 03:16:56
Title 11. 03:16:58
That. 03:17:01
Would be inconsistent with. 03:17:01
That direction. 03:17:04
And after doing that. 03:17:08
If they're. 03:17:10
Parts that are left aside that don't fit in chapter. 03:17:12
11. 03:17:16
If appropriate, put them in chapter 23 so they're not lost entirely. 03:17:17
OK, I I'm struggling to think of an example of that, but I I understand what you're getting at, yes. 03:17:25
OK. 03:17:31
You Satisfying? Yes. OK. Was there a second to that I've forgotten? 03:17:32
I'll second Commissioner Cinci, OK? 03:17:37
So we have a motion on the floor to. 03:17:40
Change language in Chapter 11 proposed Chapter 11. 03:17:43
To remove the requirement of. 03:17:48
The selection of a site. 03:17:52
And anything related to that? 03:17:55
You got help, help have to help me hear anything related to that to that. 03:17:59
Removed from title 11. 03:18:06
And and put into 23 where where necessary 23 OK. 03:18:09
And that was seconded by. 03:18:13
Commissioner Nuzenski. 03:18:16
Alright, is there any further discussion to this? 03:18:18
OK, if not please. 03:18:21
Fishers. 03:18:24
Chair Lily Is this for the retail or is this for the? 03:18:26
Retail, Retail, OK. And there'll be a separate or a set of ordinances for the. 03:18:30
Well. 03:18:39
Erica. 03:18:40
Would be the best. 03:18:41
The way I read the ordinances though, they're mainly about. 03:18:43
The retail and not the, I mean the the storefront retail and. 03:18:48
And we give them the short shrift, so to speak, of, of the. I mean, we really even thoroughly address the. 03:18:53
The medicinal only locations, I mean in terms of use, permits or. 03:19:00
You know how does that? 03:19:04
So I was. I mean, do they have to get a use permit for that or what? 03:19:05
Says we should be able to allow my guess so. 03:19:10
These ordinances essentially incorporate, I would say, bare bones provisions with respect to the delivery only because of one of 03:19:15
the questions and points of direction I was looking for from the Council. 03:19:21
Was on the question of you know whether. 03:19:29
And how the city wants to regulate delivery only because we we don't really have that from your measure M. 03:19:33
So. 03:19:39
Caps on the number of businesses, Do you want to do a competitive process for for these businesses or do we want to just say, you 03:19:40
know, state law says what it says and so? 03:19:46
Will allow them in certain zones subject to our. 03:19:52
Have. 03:19:55
Separation requirements and call it that. And I I haven't gotten clear direction on that specific subject yet, so these ordinances 03:19:57
are still in a state of flux on that issue. 03:20:03
So would it be fair to say then would what does this relate? 03:20:12
Vice Chair Murphy, do you to. 03:20:16
The storefront only does your mission. 03:20:19
Or does it? Is it both or should we? 03:20:21
Perfect. 03:20:24
And maybe maybe again it goes back to separately taking up the issue of the medicinal only delivery thing and and maybe helping 03:20:27
you out with some direction that way beyond what we have. I don't know, I mean but. 03:20:34
I I guess what I'm suggesting you know not having the ownership as part of the application. 03:20:41
Could work for both the storefront. 03:20:47
And the pedestal delivery? 03:20:50
And probably the municipal delivery, there's no impact on the Title 23 by doing that for municipal delivery probably. 03:20:52
If that makes sense. 03:21:04
May make a suggestion, I think, for streamlining purposes and to try to stay on the right side of the new state law. 03:21:07
I would actually suggest that you you treat them pretty much the same. 03:21:17
With the dual track licensing and use permit with the differences being you know the zones where they're allowed, but otherwise 03:21:23
treat them fairly similarly. 03:21:28
Or as similarly as possible with the exception. 03:21:33
Of the one business cap. 03:21:36
Not have that applied to the delivery only medicinal businesses. 03:21:39
And that way I just from an internal administrative standpoint. 03:21:43
Creating different systems. 03:21:48
For one category of cannabis business and and then another, it just creates a lot of confusion and I think increases the the 03:21:50
likelihood for mistakes to be made so the more similar we can keep. 03:21:56
Keep the regulations across the board, the better in my view from an administrative standpoint. 03:22:01
So for the sake of clarification, it will include both. 03:22:06
Both kinds if. 03:22:10
The seconder is OK, and that's permissible. With the seconder, that's fine. Alright. So is there any further discussion about this 03:22:12
matter? 03:22:16
Sorry. 03:22:21
Vice Commissioner Kubiak so. 03:22:22
Did we? 03:22:26
In the earlier motion, we used the term medical marijuana. 03:22:28
When we were talking about zoning, does that affect the way this ordinance then is written? 03:22:33
And the minute, well, medicinal medical like is, I don't know if that's one and the same. 03:22:39
OK. 03:22:49
Thank you. 03:22:51
All right. 03:22:53
Can we call the roll in please? 03:22:54
Aye. 03:23:02
Just let me redo that, I my advice chair Murphy. 03:23:03
Right. 03:23:06
Commissioner Nijinsky. 03:23:09
Commissioner Sawyer. 03:23:13
Commissioner Davison. 03:23:15
Aye, Commissioner Kubica. 03:23:17
Aye. 03:23:18
Sure, Lily. 03:23:19
Aye. 03:23:21
With six eyes, 0 nays and one absent. 03:23:22
The motion. 03:23:30
To uh. 03:23:31
Remove the need for a licensee to obtain a location prior. 03:23:36
Or the applicant to retain the. 03:23:42
Location prior to the license. 03:23:45
Be removed from Title 11 and where necessary, anything relating to the physical property moved to Title 23. 03:23:47
OK. 03:23:57
Let me let me bring up one other this. This falls into Miss Vegas definition of or or comment about. 03:23:58
Possible conflicts that. 03:24:06
Have come up in section 11. 03:24:09
Point 100.210. 03:24:11
Under enforcement, suspension, and revocation of license. 03:24:14
This chapter gives the city staff enforcement powers over violations of the proposed ordinance and other municipal codes, which 03:24:18
is, in my opinion, fine. 03:24:22
Should the city manager have the ability to suspend or revoke a cannabis business license, so is that. 03:24:28
Business license or I, I I mean, I think we need to make sure there's clarification there. 03:24:34
It's one thing to what you know as a. 03:24:41
Discussed above, I have in my. 03:24:44
Comments here What is the definition of a license? 03:24:47
Uh. 03:24:51
And then the license. The license is the license under Chapter 11. 03:24:53
And then the use permit is the use permit under chapter 23 and both have revocation provisions that are independent of each other. 03:24:57
OK so so the this then would only apply to the person or persons selecting. 03:25:06
The. 03:25:12
The the licensee. 03:25:15
Correct. 03:25:17
Processed in #11, so this has nothing to do with. 03:25:18
The use permit or anything like that. 03:25:22
Correct. 03:25:24
OK. 03:25:25
So that's really. 03:25:26
That can be handled as as a as a question with an answer. So I don't know that we need a motion for that because that's I think 03:25:27
that's pretty clear. That was a a question though, Commissioner Sawyer. 03:25:32
I just had a quick question about 11:00. 03:25:37
100.21 OB. 03:25:40
It refers to the PG municipal code. It's about any violations of this chapter. 03:25:43
When I read it, it was confusing, but yet when I read the PG municipal code it was clear. Is there a way to? 03:25:50
Make the language more similar to. 03:25:58
The 1.16 PG municipal code because it's super clear. 03:26:02
This. 03:26:07
BE is not as clear. 03:26:08
I can. 03:26:13
I can take. 03:26:14
I can take a look at that. Sorry I wasn't sure if I was muted or not. 03:26:16
Take a look at that and see if there's improvements to the language that that can be made for clarity. 03:26:20
Thank you. Because I was just thinking if we could make things sort of swim along together that we already have, it would be 03:26:26
helpful. Thank you. 03:26:30
OK. 03:26:35
The only other thing I had on here. 03:26:37
Is. 03:26:41
We talked about The Who and the how. 03:26:43
If they want, if the City Council. 03:26:46
If it's a pleasure of this Commission. 03:26:48
In terms of who and how. 03:26:50
You want to leave that to the City Council? I think I heard that from. 03:26:52
A couple of members. 03:26:56
I don't know how you all feel. I know I had a. 03:26:58
Conversation with one member about the selection process. Not in violation of the Brown Act either, but. 03:27:01
About how? 03:27:08
How that would go about because there was some discussion at the City Council level about lotteries. 03:27:12
And there's some discussion about. 03:27:17
Objective criteria, whatever those would be. 03:27:20
That, that we may want to at least briefly touch on that at least to give. 03:27:24
The Council some indication of of of. 03:27:28
What their alternatives might be? 03:27:32
And I'm looking at. 03:27:34
Commissioner Zinski, who just raised his hand, so we want to address that. 03:27:36
Thank you, Chair. Lily, I do have a question. 03:27:41
From Miss Vega. 03:27:45
Say for example we use, say for example. It's easier for me to explain this by using an example. 03:27:47
Umm. 03:27:53
And. 03:27:54
Have you ever heard of weighted lotteries as being a selection process? For example? OK, so OK. 03:27:55
So then, for the benefit of everybody, she checked, and for those of you didn't see that, she shook her head yes. 03:28:01
And so just so. 03:28:08
I'm sure most of you know, but I'm just going to explain it for the for the recording. 03:28:10
Say there's three candidates, and, and for some objective criteria you identified candidates as 1-2 and three and instead of just 03:28:14
using a lottery that would be random and then in other words each one getting 1/3 probability of being selected. 03:28:21
You could use a weighted lottery. In other words, if you think candidate won is far superior to the other two candidates, you 03:28:28
could change the weights. So say for example, you changed it to. Instead of having one out of three, you had six opportunities to 03:28:32
win. 03:28:37
Or you had a roll of the die so candidate one would get if the roll of the die ended up being 1-2 or three. 03:28:42
Candidate one would win if candidate if if the role of the dye turned up four and A5. 03:28:49
Candidate two would win, and if it rolled up a 6th, candidate three would win. So you basically changed the probabilities of the 03:28:53
people winning. 03:28:57
And the purpose of this is because sometimes if if you've ever been on a hiring committee. 03:29:01
You usually find a candidate and you don't do them by lottery. You actually make a selection and and your objective evidence and 03:29:07
your objective criteria doesn't always come to fruition and sometimes you didn't do the right hiring situation. But in this case 03:29:12
we might be similar. I don't know how good. 03:29:17
Objective criteria can be, but if we do have objective criteria and we feel strongly about it and we still want to like kind of 03:29:22
like cover our bases with a lottery. 03:29:26
A weighted lottery might be a way. That might be a suggested that you know the City Council might want to consider. 03:29:30
And again, you could also change these probabilities. You could there's an infinite amount of probabilities you could do this. You 03:29:36
could, you could change it to 100. 03:29:40
You know. 03:29:45
Ping pong balls. And then you could change. You know candidate one can have 50% chance and and then candidate two could have 10% 03:29:46
chance and you know and so on and so forth. 03:29:50
So basically it's a weighted lottery and again that's something that you could just write into the code and I just want to explain 03:29:55
that for everybody. So and again if miss Vega, if you want to elaborate, have you heard of such a, you know, you know, like in 03:29:59
other types of situations like this? 03:30:03
Yeah, I I have heard of weighted lotteries. 03:30:10
And so that is something that. 03:30:14
Can be implemented there. Another option is to you know, have a lottery but instead of having objective. 03:30:16
Criteria where it's you know you meet everything in the checklist, therefore you make it in the lottery. The alternative to that 03:30:25
is is. 03:30:28
You know it's a. 03:30:34
Subjective process. They get scored and you have to meet a certain score. 03:30:35
To make it into the lottery. So once you're in the lottery. 03:30:40
It's not weighted, but. 03:30:44
You do have to. 03:30:47
Make a certain score to even make it into the lottery. 03:30:49
And then the another option is a weight, a weighted lottery and. 03:30:52
I I have seen cities do that. I haven't implemented that personally myself in any of the cities I work with, but I've seen it done 03:30:58
in other cities. 03:31:02
Umm. 03:31:06
Where based off of your score you essentially if you think about it in terms of like a you know the the little ping pong balls and 03:31:07
the wheel. You you get more ping pong balls in the the wheel to pick from based off of your score. 03:31:13
So there's there's there's lots of variations on the process that you can that you can do. 03:31:19
You seen anyone? 03:31:25
Approach more more use more often. 03:31:28
You know, I haven't, I haven't done a thorough review. 03:31:33
To be able to actually render an opinion on that I I've seen them all is I guess probably the best way to put it, but I couldn't 03:31:38
say it, you know. 03:31:42
Statewide. However, how? 03:31:46
However, many jurisdictions use one versus the other and and say which is more popular. I just haven't done that kind of deep dive 03:31:48
into the. 03:31:52
Statistics I guess. 03:31:55
OK. 03:31:59
Alright. 03:32:00
So. 03:32:01
That probably. 03:32:03
Takes us a little bit at least into the how. 03:32:04
And. 03:32:07
Perhaps that can be? 03:32:09
Forward to the City Council for their consideration that there there's several options from. 03:32:10
One third, one third, one third lottery. If there's 32 the weighted lottery to some of the options that. 03:32:16
As Vegas talked about. 03:32:23
Is there anything else on this that we need to address or discuss on this cannabis issue that we want to tell the City Council? 03:32:26
I I was just going to remind staff and I'm sure you would have thought of it, but. 03:32:34
Table 2331. 03:32:39
03 O. 03:32:42
The commercial zone use table. 03:32:44
Will have to be amended to. 03:32:46
At Cannabis. 03:32:49
Jerry Lewis. 03:32:57
Commissioner. 03:32:59
Could we come? 03:33:00
So. 03:33:02
Does this mean the ordinances will be rewritten and come back to us? 03:33:03
I'm not sure. 03:33:09
I. 03:33:10
So the zoning ordinance definitely has to come back to you for a formal recommendation to the City Council. 03:33:13
And. 03:33:20
But I. 03:33:21
Would defer to staff as to whether they would intend to bring back the licensing ordinance, because that's not legally required to 03:33:23
go to you. 03:33:26
Commissioner Sawyer. 03:33:33
I would like to just ask a. 03:33:37
Question because I don't know the answer and it's doesn't really pertain to zoning, but. 03:33:40
When you ride an 11. 03:33:47
100.23 O consumption of cannabis. 03:33:50
Is and it says that consumption and use of edibles shall be prohibited. Is that. 03:33:54
I just wanted to know, is that enforceable? Is that what the law says? I just wasn't sure where that came from. 03:34:01
Sorry, just scrolling to the appropriate section. You said 11102 three O consumption cannabis. Yes. So that's about consumption in 03:34:12
public places. 03:34:17
And that's reflected in state law. 03:34:22
OK, so canvas has been decriminalized, but it's still illegal to consume it in public places. 03:34:25
OK. 03:34:31
So, so we want to also include that in your ordinance, even though it duplicates state law. 03:34:32
Because then it's enforceable by a citation under your municipal code. 03:34:37
All right. Thank you. I just was very curious about that. I was like, how do you enforce that? How do you know what they're 03:34:42
chewing on? 03:34:45
Thank you. 03:34:49
And I don't know if. 03:34:50
This question is for you, Miss Vega or Mr. Burke. 03:34:52
And. 03:34:55
You know, several members of the publics mentioned possession and distribution. 03:34:56
Of marijuana cannabis products is is illegal under federal law. 03:35:01
And watching what has happened. 03:35:06
Over the last 10 to 15 years, it seems to me that depending on who's in the White House. 03:35:09
The likelihood of the federal. 03:35:14
Authorities trying to intervene at the local level is. 03:35:17
You know, more or less likely, but we're asking businesses. We're telling them it's OK to do it here. 03:35:20
We're charging them fees, so we're taking a healthy tax bite out of them. 03:35:26
Right if the federal if they fall afoul of federal law. 03:35:32
We were saying, oh, you know, up to you to defend yourselves. We're not gonna. 03:35:36
We're not gonna help. We're not gonna pay for that night. 03:35:40
I guess I understand that from the cities. 03:35:43
Point of view, but. 03:35:45
It it doesn't seem fair to the business owner, we've said come into our city, you know, operate. 03:35:46
And and now you're falling. 03:35:52
You know the feds are going after you, so we we kind of abandon you and it. 03:35:55
And I know it's probably smart for the city. 03:35:59
But it it doesn't seem fair to me to the business person and I wonder if. 03:36:02
I'm incredibly naive for. 03:36:06
Or I'm talking about hypotheticals that are are never going to happen. 03:36:09
Well, it's impossible to predict the future. You're right that it does seem to be a matter of who is. 03:36:13
In the White House and what their attitude is. 03:36:22
And in terms of enforcement of federal. 03:36:25
Drug laws, but a business which would come into the city would be aware of the. 03:36:28
Risks with respect to the federal government. So it's not that the city is. 03:36:37
You know, making representations that. 03:36:42
Are inaccurate. The state law legalizes. 03:36:45
The the sale of of cannabis. 03:36:51
For personal use. 03:36:56
So the city is acting consistent with state law as are. 03:36:58
Many other cities in the in the state. So I think the best answer I can give you is that. 03:37:03
The business owner would be. 03:37:09
You know, taking a risk that there could eventually be some type of federal enforcement. 03:37:11
Thank you. 03:37:18
That raises the question, Mr. Puritan, do we need to have an indemnification? 03:37:20
Clause in our. 03:37:25
Review process to hold the city harmless. 03:37:26
Ohh. And in the event of that, although that that probably goes against the Fairness Doctrine that. 03:37:30
Vice Chair Murphy. 03:37:36
Stated. I mean, I understand that, but. 03:37:38
Would we need to do that or is that? 03:37:41
Implicit in all this or. 03:37:44
How do we handle that? 03:37:46
I'm going to patch that one on to Erica. 03:37:47
It's already included. 03:37:50
If you look at section 11.100, point 190, paragraph A, there is a requirement that that whole section pertains to limitations on 03:37:52
the city's liability, and paragraph A specifically requires indemnification. 03:37:58
The one that yeah, there's. 03:38:08
OK. 03:38:13
Alright, that's fine. 03:38:14
So at this point then, we'll look forward to getting back at a future date, the redrafting of the Chapter 2032. 03:38:16
2020 Getting the numbers all filled up. 03:38:26
23 people. 03:38:31
Who I was, you know, 23.92 provisions and we'll go from there. 03:38:32
So does that conclude this? 03:38:38
Item in the agenda. 03:38:40
And and you're saying we do not want to see? 03:38:42
Chapter 11. 03:38:46
And then we don't see Chapter 11 beyond what we've said. 03:38:47
Quick question. 03:38:52
Do we push into that? Do we do we need a motion to that? 03:38:54
No. 03:38:59
Well, I think we've heard what you've said. 03:39:00
And let me just. 03:39:03
Say that I found that the discussion tonight by the Commission was very constructive and and the direction is very clear, so I 03:39:04
think that would be very helpful for the Council to get to get this input that you provided. 03:39:11
Thank you. 03:39:19
Commissioner Sawyer. 03:39:21
If I wanted to send a few comments to Miss Vega and what I found when I went through 11 just to help. 03:39:22
Make things more. 03:39:31
The same. How would I? 03:39:34
Address something to her as far as like an e-mail. 03:39:36
Here. 03:39:40
We can provide you with her e-mail address. 03:39:41
You can. 03:39:44
Sure. 03:39:45
OK. Or if it's easier, you can just send it to to Aaron Campbell and he can forward it to me as well, since I'm sure you already 03:39:46
have his e-mail address. 03:39:50
OK. 03:39:55
Yeah, because I I just have a number of comments and I didn't want to spend a lot of time. 03:39:56
Going ABC. 03:40:02
Thank you. 03:40:04
OK, we now come to item 9A, housing element. 03:40:08
So, so we can expect to get this before the end of the year then do you have a, is there a timeline that we could expect that from 03:40:13
that? 03:40:17
Revision to. 03:40:23
Chapter 2392. 03:40:24
Erica, do you have a time estimate? 03:40:28
Sorry, my mute button was sticking. I I would want to talk with staff just to make sure. I mean certainly it's going to take me a 03:40:33
little bit of time to revise the ordinances, but then we also want to make sure things are meshing with whatever is coming up on 03:40:40
the Commission's calendar. But I think the goal would be definitely before the end of the year because the new state law goes into 03:40:48
effect on January one that regarding the medicinal delivery only businesses. So I can definitely say I would be able to. 03:40:55
Something ready for you before the end of the year, but I would need to talk with staff about specific timing. 03:41:04
When we meet in September, October and November and December and the second Tuesday of the month or Thursday of the month. So I 03:41:10
guess you take your choice, so. 03:41:14
So that we can get that in time because that law does, as you said become effective on January 1st. 03:41:19
All right. Is that if that concludes that? Thank you for your help. 03:41:27
Mr. Perry and Miss Vega. 03:41:32
Umm. 03:41:34
We now come to 9A. 03:41:35
Director White has patiently sat through all of this and housing element in general. Plan updates. 03:41:38
We do. We have a report on this agenda item from Director Wyatt. Welcome. 03:41:45
Cheryl Lilly and members of the Commission, thank you. 03:41:51
For your. 03:41:56
Thoughts on this housing element update and general plan as? 03:41:58
And. 03:42:04
Council Member Coletti mentioned earlier the. 03:42:05
City Council did approve at the August 2nd meeting. 03:42:09
An agreement with Ring Hong Consultants to complete. 03:42:13
The rezoning. 03:42:17
Some objective design standards. 03:42:19
And a sequel review for the Phase One of the Focus General Plan update to help us be compliant with the state requirements. 03:42:22
Uh, that are being triggered by our housing element and the number of units that we need to plan for. 03:42:32
We have, I'm happy to announce a received a draft housing element from our consultant. This is an administrative draft, so 03:42:39
internally we are reviewing with our consultant. 03:42:46
And it is quite extensive, so there's a lot for us to review and I have spent many nights this week. 03:42:53
Up late reviewing it and. 03:43:01
And it's looking. 03:43:03
Very good. So just an FYI there's it's exciting and and. 03:43:05
We're moving forward with that, so. 03:43:11
That is my update for now and if you have any questions I'm happy to answer them. 03:43:14
I'll defer the questions until after public comment and then we can do that as part of our discussion. 03:43:19
So at this point I'll open the proceedings to public comment, Mr. 03:43:24
Campbell And so do we have any comments from the public either? 03:43:29
In the audience or on zoom? 03:43:35
Being very diligent in this process and I commend them on that. 03:44:15
And I urge you to move forward with this housing element. I noted that. 03:44:19
Some constituents express concerns about local control and the best way to retain local control, which I agree is important. 03:44:24
The best way to do that is to move forward with the housing elements and make the solutions for your housing yourselves. 03:44:30
Rather than leaving it to the state to do so. So please do proceed. Thank you. 03:44:37
Thank you. 03:44:42
We have the stores online if there's no one else in person. 03:44:52
Hello, good evening. 03:45:01
Can you hear me? 03:45:04
Please proceed. 03:45:09
You, you, you may speak. Can you hear me? 03:45:14
Yes. 03:45:18
Good evening. My name is Jose Torres. I'm housing advocate for Land Watch Monterey County, and I just have a. 03:45:20
Quick suggestion, request a suggestion how you want to take it. 03:45:28
4. 03:45:33
For acquiring the site inventory earlier than the public draft of. I know that the public draft will be available sometime in 03:45:35
September. 03:45:40
And we'd like to request. 03:45:45
To be able to see the site inventory portion of the draft. 03:45:48
If it's possibly available. 03:45:51
Earlier than than the public publication of the traffic. 03:45:55
It would really help. 03:45:58
Because going through that site inventory does take time and it's it's a very big part of of the housing element. 03:46:00
The city of Monterey. 03:46:08
And the County of Monterey, where? 03:46:10
Both in that position and they both provided their site inventory earlier. 03:46:12
So just a suggestion it would. 03:46:16
Provide. 03:46:19
A lot of information. 03:46:20
And it would help the process for reviewing the element. 03:46:23
The housing element when it does come out. 03:46:27
Thank you very much. 03:46:30
Thank you. 03:46:33
Jane Haynes welcome. 03:46:37
Good evening. 03:46:42
Before I comment on this, I just want to say I'm very happy too about the progress of the story poll committee and I think. 03:46:44
Claudia for. 03:46:54
Umm. 03:46:56
Doing that. 03:46:58
I I was very puzzled by the 1st. 03:47:00
Comment. 03:47:03
Umm. 03:47:04
The saying that we had had so many meetings if you look on the. 03:47:05
On the website. 03:47:11
The Pacific Grove Housing Element website. 03:47:13
There there are no meetings listed. 03:47:17
In 2023. 03:47:20
The nine meetings? None. 03:47:22
Occurred in 2023. 03:47:24
Umm. 03:47:27
And. 03:47:28
I read this. 03:47:29
I I studied this progress report. 03:47:31
And and I I just don't understand it. 03:47:36
It says for example task one work completed, states Internal Rincon Review of draft housing element chapters Task complete. 03:47:39
Well. 03:47:49
I don't know what housing element they're talking about. 03:47:50
Umm. 03:47:53
Before. 03:47:54
Baird and Driscoll left. 03:47:56
They umm. 03:47:58
Provided 7 chapters of the housing element. 03:48:00
And so are they talking about Barrett, what Baird and Driscoll did, or are they talking about something completely different? I I 03:48:04
I just don't understand it. 03:48:09
It says. 03:48:15
On this it says. 03:48:17
Task three work completed, Drafted Community Engagement Summary. 03:48:19
City staff attended National Night Night Out and conducted research. 03:48:24
On. 03:48:30
S1. 03:48:33
Well, National Night Out was a 2 hour event. 03:48:34
And Caledonia Park. 03:48:38
That was attended primarily by members of the Police Department. 03:48:40
Is that the extent of SCD staff housing element? 03:48:44
Research. 03:48:49
Umm. 03:48:51
As I. 03:48:52
Forward you forwarded you a response public records response yesterday. 03:48:54
I made three public records requests. 03:49:01
And the city turned them all down. 03:49:04
Umm. 03:49:07
Now I this afternoon I appealed that. 03:49:08
That rejection of my request. 03:49:12
And I hope to get some of these questions answered if I can get those those documents. 03:49:14
But. 03:49:20
I I didn't learn anything from this. I don't when they say that that the. 03:49:22
That the. 03:49:28
The tasks complete the draft housing element chapters. 03:49:30
Are they talking about the Baird and Driscoll tractors or are they talking about Rincon chapters? I just don't know. 03:49:35
So. 03:49:41
I. 03:49:43
And just. 03:49:45
Very disappointed and I'm hoping that when the. 03:49:46
The my. 03:49:50
Public records request. 03:49:51
Will get reconsidered. And if it does and I learned something, I'll let you all know because I didn't understand anything from 03:49:53
this that I didn't already know. 03:49:57
Thank you. 03:50:02
Thank you. 03:50:08
We have Inglorious and Dahmer. 03:50:11
Welcome. 03:50:13
Thank you. 03:50:16
It's definitely late and to tell you the truth. 03:50:18
That report didn't tell me. 03:50:22
Anything. 03:50:25
I just, I don't even know. It's like, ohh, yes, we've got it. We're excited. 03:50:27
And we're moving on. 03:50:32
Well. 03:50:34
Did I attend National Night Out? No, I didn't, but I doubt if I would have learned anything more there. 03:50:35
Umm. 03:50:43
I don't know what else to say. I would appreciate. 03:50:44
A report with substance. And this one is, oh, we're reviewing an internal report. 03:50:48
That doesn't give the public much except to say, well, we're all still in the dark. 03:50:54
Thank you very much. 03:51:00
Thank you. 03:51:04
Any. 03:51:09
No other hands or hands. 03:51:10
All right, I will close then this to. 03:51:12
No. 03:51:18
Yeah, it looks like. 03:51:19
Tony somebody raised their hand. Tony Choni, yes. 03:51:20
Welcome. 03:51:23
I'm sorry, I thought I had my hand raised. 03:51:25
I agree with what was just said. 03:51:30
It's hard to comment on something that you can't see. 03:51:32
It would really be good to have a comprehensive report. 03:51:37
That has a good narrative. 03:51:41
Has got good graphics. 03:51:43
Specifics. 03:51:47
That we can all. 03:51:49
Look at and respond to. 03:51:50
With specific recommendations and comments. 03:51:53
An additional comment that I have. 03:51:58
Is I keep wondering is Pacific Grove. 03:52:01
Going to have. 03:52:05
A housing Commission. 03:52:06
I know. 03:52:08
Pacific Grove is a small community. 03:52:09
Does this. 03:52:13
Does the Planning Commission? 03:52:14
Act. 03:52:17
As the Housing Commission. 03:52:17
Does the City Council act as a? 03:52:20
Housing Commission. 03:52:23
Who is going to be the? 03:52:27
Final arbiter. 03:52:29
For all of this. 03:52:31
I don't understand it. 03:52:33
Which your night? Be nice. 03:52:34
If it could be. 03:52:36
Specifically. 03:52:38
Spelled out. Thank you. 03:52:39
Thank you. 03:52:42
I see no other hands raised. 03:52:46
All right. 03:52:48
At this point I will close. 03:52:49
These proceedings to further public comment and we'll proceed with discussion. 03:52:51
On this matter by the Commission, so who would like to begin? 03:52:55
But he's looking at each other, Vice Chair Murphy. 03:53:04
I'm not as disappointed as the public in the in the report. This is a progress report of a multi, multi year effort. This is what 03:53:09
what's happened in the past month. 03:53:15
It's happened out in the public view, it's it's staff and our consultant. 03:53:20
Working on housing element. 03:53:25
And the big news is we have a draft. 03:53:27
Umm. 03:53:31
I'm assuming that means that we're on the deadline we think we're on, that the public version will be released sometime in 03:53:32
September. 03:53:36
That the Planning Commission will meet in October. 03:53:40
And City Council will meet you in November and that we're still on that timetable, is that is that right? 03:53:44
But. 03:53:50
Vice Chair Murphy That's correct I. 03:53:50
I think we know that once the public draft is released. 03:53:54
The public has 30 days to to comment. 03:53:58
What What is the city going to do to to encourage comments and to let people know? 03:54:01
You know it's it's available. 03:54:08
And then the second part of my question is. 03:54:09
Once there are comments from the public. 03:54:12
And what you know what what happens to them. I I know whether an EIR for example, or comments and the responses are are appended. 03:54:16
And I haven't seen that in housing elements, but I don't. 03:54:23
I don't know what happens to the comments and and again what? 03:54:25
What is the city going to do to encourage people to comment? 03:54:29
OK. Vice Chair Mary Murphy, thank you for your questions. 03:54:34
We do have a housing element advisory group where people that we've met both in the public or who have expressed interest. 03:54:37
Via e-mail or phone calls. 03:54:46
Will be sent the draft. We will also have it on the website and it will be noticed in the paper. We. 03:54:48
It is typical. 03:54:56
Uh. 03:54:58
And I I have been through housing element processes before the comments and we've discussed this with our consultant that the. 03:54:59
Comments will be received by the city. 03:55:07
And they will be part of what the state? 03:55:09
Sees so it'll be part of the draft housing element and comments that are substantive and need to, if we need to make any amends to 03:55:13
the housing element will be completed and that is part of the scope with the consultant. 03:55:21
So that is how it we are expecting that. 03:55:29
We would present this to City Council November. 03:55:33
1st I believe. 03:55:38
And then we would submit it to the state. If there are a lot of comments that are substantive then. 03:55:39
And we may not be able to stay on that timeline. However, if there are some comments that can easily be addressed or some. 03:55:46
Minor changes to the housing element. We can still submit it to the state and make those changes while they are in their draft 03:55:54
review. 03:55:57
So, so there's a set of comments during the 30 days. 03:56:02
Depending upon the timing of our meeting. 03:56:07
May you may not be within the 30 days. 03:56:10
And then the Council meeting certainly will not be within the 30 days. 03:56:13
So I'm guessing the public will comment during those meetings too. 03:56:17
And those treated the same way as the comments during the 30 days. 03:56:21
Yes. 03:56:26
Vice Chair Murphy So we will accept all comments and. 03:56:27
And submit the draft to the state. 03:56:31
And should there be any? 03:56:34
Major comments that come up at the City Council meeting, like I said that. 03:56:36
We. 03:56:40
Can't address? Then we may need to. 03:56:41
And delay submitting to the state. 03:56:44
Or if they're small comments that are editing, or small, smaller. 03:56:47
Items that can be addressed while the state is reviewing our draft housing element then. 03:56:52
And that's how we will proceed. 03:56:57
And and I think the week before last or two weeks ago, I I had asked. 03:56:59
If you were. 03:57:05
Able to release the. 03:57:06
Decide to inventory ahead of time. 03:57:08
And you had said you were going to talk to Rincon about that. Well, are are we planning to do that? 03:57:10
Vice Chair Murphy, we are not planning to do that. I have that discussed that with our. 03:57:17
Attorneys and there's other analysis and and our consultants as well, there's other analysis within the housing element. 03:57:22
That. 03:57:29
For us to release the housing sites inventory at this time. 03:57:30
Is. 03:57:35
Doesn't make sense. 03:57:36
Without the context of the other chapters of the housing element, however. 03:57:38
I will state that in our. 03:57:42
A. 03:57:46
Outreach, which is on the website. We did have our. 03:57:48
Balancing act. 03:57:53
Tool where we focused on the areas and the sites that would be considered in our housing element, we have not strayed. 03:57:54
From the Balancing Act tool. 03:58:02
And so that is online and if you are. 03:58:05
If anyone is interested. 03:58:07
That was further explained in a follow up. 03:58:09
Meeting so all of that is online, can be watched and slides are available to the public. So. 03:58:13
We haven't really strayed from that, it's just. 03:58:19
Matter of. 03:58:21
Looking at the densities and what what works for how we're going to proceed but. 03:58:23
It's. 03:58:29
We're sticking to what was in the Balancing Act tool. 03:58:30
So in other words, if someone is concerned about the site inventory, they can look online and get a pretty good idea of what the 03:58:33
inventory is going to be. Is that fair? Correct, Yes. 03:58:37
And and if you don't mind, I'll ask. 03:58:42
You to help Jane Haynes. 03:58:45
And. 03:58:47
On her first question, the internal Rincon review of draft housing element chapters. 03:58:48
She asked if that was the Baird and Driscoll material and is. 03:58:52
Is that correct or? 03:58:57
This is Rincon's material. 03:59:01
And it is. 03:59:04
There. 03:59:06
They have. 03:59:08
Created the material. They had a excellent template. 03:59:11
And and. 03:59:15
Created material that I did not see prior to this, but so then this is, you know, Rincon's work. 03:59:17
With some. 03:59:24
Of the materials supplied by Baird and Driscoll is that. 03:59:26
Yes. 03:59:31
There was limited material in the past and and especially when it comes to the FHA, it's it's very thorough. What we're seeing is 03:59:32
a draft. 03:59:36
It it it. 03:59:41
Adheres to the state's requirements. 03:59:43
So I would say that. 03:59:46
OK. And and her other question had to do with the community engagement? 03:59:48
And I think there are two parts in the report. 03:59:53
Draft a community engagement summary that. 03:59:55
That I think means that Rincon. 03:59:58
Working with the staff created a summary of all of the. 04:00:00
Outreach so far is that. 04:00:04
Correct. Yeah. And then the the National Night Out. 04:00:07
I'm guessing you and or members of your staff attended and talked to people about housing. 04:00:10
That That's correct, Chair Murphy. And last year we did have two planning commissioners attend and provide information to the 04:00:16
public about the housing element. 04:00:21
And on our website we we do have two. 04:00:25
Uh. 04:00:28
To outreach or to meetings that have occurred. So those are listed on our website. We also have these pop-up events that we've 04:00:30
continually any opportunity we have at like the. 04:00:36
The National Night Out. Our staff attended. 04:00:43
And provided information on the housing element as well as the good old days. We were out there all weekend, we had a tent, we had 04:00:46
lots of visitors. So anytime we see an opportunity to get input from the public we we definitely take advantage of that. It's it's 04:00:54
really important to us to hear from the public and we do, we heard quite a bit of comments at both events. 04:01:01
Yeah, and we heard some comments from the public, you know, before our meeting tonight and people talking about. 04:01:10
You know, state control versus city control. 04:01:16
And and I don't know if the people who spoke to us represent a lot of residents, of just a few residents. 04:01:19
But. 04:01:26
But that is a big issue people are talking about and you know, here and in other places. 04:01:26
And and I guess I would just urge if even though we're late in the process, if if there are ways for us to engage the community as 04:01:32
much as possible, I would you know, I would certainly support. 04:01:39
Support that and. 04:01:45
I wondered if it made any sense at this point to. 04:01:48
For instance. 04:01:51
Send a postcard to everybody. 04:01:54
You know, it's all the addresses in town and then you know what we're up to and how they can, how how they can participate. 04:01:57
Just a suggestion. 04:02:04
Thank you. 04:02:07
Comments. 04:02:09
Commissioner Sawyer. 04:02:11
What does AFH stand for for the third time? You've told me many times and I can never remember. 04:02:14
It's OK. Thank you, Commissioner. Sorry. 04:02:22
A FH is Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing. 04:02:25
Yeah. 04:02:30
It's an awkward phrase. That's why we can't remember. 04:02:33
Words is enough. 04:02:37
This this is a new. 04:02:40
Chapter to the housing element that. 04:02:42
We did not see in the prior housing element and it really came through from the federal government. 04:02:45
It was taken out of requirements. 04:02:51
With HUD from the federal government during the Trump administration, the state of California felt that it was a great. 04:02:55
Umm. 04:03:02
Recommendation and move forward with incorporating it into our housing element. 04:03:03
Vice Chair Murphy, I was just going to mention that the city of Monterey. 04:03:13
Last week. 04:03:17
And release their draft housing element. See. You can find it easily on the web. 04:03:19
You know it's it's long and. 04:03:24
And. 04:03:27
It might make it make sense for us to read it to see things in there that. 04:03:28
You know, we'd like or don't like and it'll give us a. 04:03:32
You know, these some of the housing elements are really formulaic and would be. 04:03:35
It's not a bad idea for us all to acquaint ourselves with what they look like and how they how they work, et cetera. 04:03:42
Vice for Commissioner Kubica. 04:03:49
I I think I heard that the. 04:03:52
It was going to the Council, the first on November 1st. When would it be coming to the Planning Commission? 04:03:56
Commissioner Kubica, we are hoping to come to Planning Commission in October. 04:04:03
So it would be like the first week of October. The 2nd Thursday of October is when the Planning Commission meeting will be held. I 04:04:08
don't have the date right in front of me and we would have 30 days to review it before then. 04:04:13
I believe we would notice 30 days. 04:04:19
Minimum prior to this, the requirement would be prior to the City Council. 04:04:23
Meeting. 04:04:28
When we released the draft for final review, but I will if we can. We will try to have it 30 days prior to. 04:04:29
The Planning Commission meeting. 04:04:36
Thank you very much. 04:04:38
And another question is, how is the sequel coming? 04:04:40
We, I haven't heard anything about that, Commissioner Kubica, we did meet with our consultants and our city attorneys today to 04:04:44
discuss the Sequoia. 04:04:48
Issues the secret consultant Harris is reviewing. 04:04:52
The draft too, so they will. We will all come up and determine based on the draft what we will, what type of sequel review we will 04:04:56
need to do. 04:05:02
OK, so we haven't really tasked them to do anything yet or they're just evaluating it or Commissioner Kubica, we have tasked them. 04:05:10
The issue is that they need to scope. 04:05:15
The extent of the project. So under Sequoia, that's. 04:05:20
That's scoping, so they need to see the project itself, which is the draft. 04:05:24
In order to complete the scoping for the Sequoia to move forward. 04:05:28
And looking at the proposal that talks about screen check. 04:05:34
And then it talks. I guess that's screen check is when. 04:05:38
The staff and a review of the staff's comments. This is a question. 04:05:42
The staff's comments are incorporated in by Rincon and then the staff gets to review it again before it comes out. 04:05:47
Commissioner Cooper, yes, if we would provide, we are. 04:05:54
Reviewing the document, I have lots of comments and questions. We'll provide that once I've finalized my review. 04:05:57
Provide that to Rincon. Rincon will then incorporate those edits. Then I will once again. 04:06:06
Review and staff that they incorporated all of the edits that we requested and then it will be ready for public review. 04:06:11
Thank you. 04:06:20
Any other questions? I have some. 04:06:22
Umm. 04:06:25
How many pages is this thing gonna be do you think? Do you have any idea? 04:06:27
How many pages or how many pages is the draft? 04:06:34
And and I'm not including the Sequoia cause who knows how long that thing is gonna be, but. 04:06:37
Chair Lily. 04:06:42
I just know right now that FH is like 70 some odd pages, just that chapter alone. So. 04:06:45
I don't know. It's thick. I I haven't looked at the final drop, but I would say it's gonna be between at least 250 to 400 pages. 04:06:52
So it's not a small document. It's not it's it's a several nights of bedtime reading. Umm. 04:06:58
Yeah, OK. 04:07:05
Who is we? 04:07:09
When you say you kept saying we and the reason I'm asking you, we, I I I think we need to nail that down. 04:07:11
And I also let me let me begin with this observation I think last. 04:07:17
Week or the week before, whenever I was at the City Council meeting. 04:07:22
It was August 2nd. 04:07:25
And you had just received? 04:07:27
The draft. 04:07:29
Of the housing element from Rincon. 04:07:30
So. 04:07:32
The question I have is how long is it gonna take staff? 04:07:33
To review that. 04:07:37
And get back corrections and changes or whatever staff feels is appropriate. 04:07:39
To Rincon, let me. 04:07:44
Go through the progression so I understand because I don't. 04:07:45
That'll go back to Rincon. Rincon will fix it and then somewhere along the line it'll go out for public comment. Do we have any 04:07:50
idea when that is? Do we have any schedule yet? 04:07:55
I mean, we're getting very near the deadlines on these things. 04:08:00
And it just seemed to me that it would help everybody involved. 04:08:03
If we said heart, if you said or we set hard deadlines. 04:08:07
For people to do their job otherwise. 04:08:11
You know, we we we probably will miss the deadline. 04:08:14
And I I'm just that's my opinion. 04:08:17
And maybe you all agree, maybe you don't. But I I just think it it would help us. 04:08:19
To help you really. 04:08:24
To start getting into some hard deadlines here so that the consultants know that they got to get it done. 04:08:26
That's my view so. 04:08:33
You know September, you know, I'll go back to what I said before, is that the 1st of September? Is that the 30th of September? 04:08:37
I will ask the Commission, you know, and I've said this before, don't give us this thing. 04:08:44
Six days before it's due. 04:08:49
And then ask us because. 04:08:51
You're not gonna get much of an answer I don't think, but maybe you will. But I I you know 6-6 days to review 300 or 400 pages or 04:08:53
250 pages, not a lot of time. 04:08:58
So one of the questions I'm going to have to ask the Commission tonight is if they're available for a special meeting, a second 04:09:05
meeting in early, early or late October, probably early October. 04:09:10
To review this thing so that we can give you adequate input before deadlines and not drag this thing out. 04:09:16
You know. 04:09:23
So that that's that's my view of this I, I, I think you know August 2nd. 04:09:24
All that. 04:09:30
You know. 04:09:31
I don't know how much time you need to review all this stuff. It's 250 pages, a lot of pages to review and I understand that. 04:09:32
What you're you're doing and you're doing it with with Alissa Kroger I guess and whoever else and your attorneys but. 04:09:38
I don't know if you want to comment to that. 04:09:45
You know. 04:09:48
Sure, Lily. 04:09:51
As you know, I have wear many hats. We have a lot of work to do and we are working as fast as we can. 04:09:52
I. 04:09:59
I read this at night. 04:10:01
So I'm because my day job is pretty busy so and also we have Alyssa Kroger who's also working on a lot of. 04:10:02
Different items we've had the general plan update we are in the process of. 04:10:10
Beginning a lot of endeavors for this city that haven't happened before, so Needless to say, I can't give you an exact date, but 04:10:15
we are trying to stick to the schedule that we've. 04:10:21
We. 04:10:27
Told you that we get this to you a draft by October. The consultant is completely. 04:10:27
Aware of our timing and our wish to accelerate. 04:10:32
All changes that we have. 04:10:36
To incorporate so. 04:10:40
Umm. 04:10:43
I think they're on board. They know that we need to move this forward. This is a document that. 04:10:43
Is very standard like. 04:10:50
Commissioner Murphy just said that you can look at Carmel's, you can look at other drafts and see that this. 04:10:53
Aligns with other drafts. The great thing with this consultant too is that they have. 04:10:59
Been in the process of over thirty of these throughout the state. 04:11:05
So that works in our favor. 04:11:08
They're aware of. 04:11:10
For FH, for example, we're trying to preempt and make sure that. 04:11:12
We know what the state will be looking for specifically in this new document, in this new chapter, so they're on top of what needs 04:11:16
to be in this document we've been meeting. 04:11:22
Every other week to ensure. 04:11:28
We know what this state will ask, so hopefully by the time. 04:11:30
We submit this to the state and the comments come in from the state. They won't be. 04:11:34
They won't be too substantive. They won't. 04:11:40
Be anything we know right now to. I do know that Rincon. 04:11:43
I met with the. 04:11:48
Head of HCD We did have a site visit with HCD. 04:11:49
And they it sounds like they are on board with our sites inventory because we took them for a site tour, showed them the site 04:11:54
locations that we talked about earlier. 04:11:59
That were in our balancing act tool. 04:12:04
We showed them around, they seem pretty that they seem pretty happy with our sights inventory. 04:12:08
So. 04:12:14
All in all, we are on the right track. 04:12:15
Where are draft? 04:12:19
Looks good. 04:12:20
We have to review it as staff. 04:12:22
And make sure we're thorough. 04:12:25
There's data in there, there's. 04:12:27
The FH is all new, which also incorporates quite a bit of different data. 04:12:31
And so. 04:12:36
Um. 04:12:37
You know, I've reviewed draft documents where I've had to correct math before, right? Like the consultants got the math wrong. 04:12:38
Like those are it's, it's not just. 04:12:42
And we're not doing a small review here, we're we're really being thorough, making sure that we're looking at the right data 04:12:46
points. 04:12:49
That it's all entered correctly, that the tables make sense. 04:12:53
As far as the text in the. 04:12:57
All of that. So that's in process. We're hoping to get the draft final review all of our comments back, mind you we we just 04:13:00
received this. 04:13:04
Like a week ago, right? So hopefully within the next week we'll have all our. 04:13:08
Uh. 04:13:13
Are. 04:13:13
Comments to the consultant and I'm I've worked with Veronica Tam and on the Rincon team on the last housing element. 04:13:14
I recall all of the incorporated incorporation of. 04:13:22
Staff comments being very thorough and quick, so I do know that Rincon is very responsive to what our needs are and is fully 04:13:27
understanding of that. 04:13:32
So let let me let me elaborate a couple or just a couple make a couple points. 04:13:38
I hear everything you said. I've been through that myself. I understand what you mean. 04:13:43
So this is August 10th, so maybe, maybe. 04:13:48
When you said a week from now, that's August 17th. 04:13:52
You said to us by October. 04:13:55
So. 04:13:58
We would then, we would then is on the Planning Commission having a document on October 1st or thereabouts, is that what you're 04:13:59
saying? 04:14:02
You said by October, so I I'm just. 04:14:08
Or when? When would it be released to the public? 04:14:16
I mean, I mean, I'm not clear about does the 30 days for the public review. 04:14:19
How does that interact with our 30 days? Does did the overlap or are they separate? 04:14:24
How does that work? 04:14:29
It's so we as I said before we have a 30 day requirement prior to it. 04:14:31
Going to the City Council, but like I said, if we can. 04:14:36
Adjust that timeline. We already have a draft. 04:14:40
A draft notice ready. 04:14:44
We'll do whatever we can to have it sooner. 04:14:46
And have a longer public comment period. 04:14:50
OK. Now how my final questions is so you said we. 04:14:52
So comments come in from people about things. Who decides? 04:14:56
What changes are made? 04:15:01
You know you, you, you know you get saying we who's we. 04:15:03
I mean. 04:15:07
Really, what the question is who decides? 04:15:08
The changes that come in, whether they they're. 04:15:11
They ought to be. 04:15:13
Staff makes the determination if. 04:15:15
If we look at all of the comments, we will work with our consultant. 04:15:18
To address the comments, so. 04:15:23
Comments could range anywhere from. 04:15:25
We. 04:15:29
We don't. 04:15:31
Like this at all? 04:15:32
We don't want to abide by the state regulation. OK, well, we'll enter that into the record. 04:15:33
It could be you misspelled a. 04:15:38
Word here this sentence doesn't make sense. Or can you elaborate on the, the this or that you know those types of will have to 04:15:40
determine what types of. 04:15:44
Comments come in the state then. 04:15:49
Once we submit it to the state, we'll also have. 04:15:52
A set of comments. 04:15:54
So like I said, we're seeing throughout the state our consultant team. 04:15:56
Are seeing. 04:16:00
The FHA isn't thorough enough. There's. 04:16:02
There's, and that's a big one that they're focused on. 04:16:05
So. 04:16:09
All of these our goal is get. 04:16:10
A compliant housing element. So whatever we need to do to have a compliant housing element. 04:16:13
Is our. 04:16:20
Is our objective so let let let let me get into some detail here a little bit so you said staff would just would would what make 04:16:21
decide or make a recommendation of the City Council about the way it ought to be. 04:16:27
And I'm, I'm, I'm kind of putting words into your mouth, but I suppose maybe by saying that that way, but. 04:16:35
The policy making organization in this city is a City Council. 04:16:41
So. 04:16:46
I don't understand the comment about staff making. 04:16:47
The decision about. 04:16:50
The draft plant I know. 04:16:53
If that's what you said, maybe I misunderstood you. 04:16:54
I I don't know if I'm understanding what you're asking me and my question was who was we And as staff will be we will accept all 04:16:58
comments and if there are substantive comments that need serious changes to the housing element, we'll do that. So but who is we 04:17:04
will do that. What do you mean by that? Our staff? 04:17:11
Well, how does that then comport or how does that apply then to the city council's? 04:17:18
Decision to submit a proposal but. 04:17:24
Like anything, the staff. 04:17:28
Gives, makes decisions. They have a draft, they give to City Council. Well, that's what I wanted to hear. So they'll give it. 04:17:30
You'll give it to the City Council then to make the final approval. 04:17:34
And to make changes. 04:17:40
Sure, Lily. Yes. OK. That's all I wanted to know. 04:17:41
OK, that's that's fine. Yeah. No, that's that's what I wanted to hear. I I do have one suggestion, though. And the chair has 04:17:45
mentioned several times and I suspect that he's right. 04:17:50
They all end up. 04:17:56
Needing or hoping to have two meetings. 04:17:58
In October. 04:18:01
You are regular meeting in a special meeting. 04:18:03
It's a. It's a large document that that seems quite within the realm of possibility. 04:18:06
We've tried to have special meetings before and we haven't had much success. 04:18:11
Getting them set up. 04:18:15
And I would urge the chair and the director. 04:18:16
Between now and next month, for instance, to pick at the second meeting date in October that we all are aware of. 04:18:20
And that it shouldn't be that difficult that I hope. 04:18:27
You know, I just hope you can accomplish it. The worst thing that happens is we have a second meeting scheduled. 04:18:30
And we have to cancel it. 04:18:35
You know, but otherwise, let's let's just do it. 04:18:37
Well, that that that falls into the category then of of we can pull right now if that's permissible. Is that legally permissible, 04:18:41
that's stable staff probably doesn't have. Well, it would be an option. It would be an October. So if we have it by the end of 04:18:46
September if it's publicly available. 04:18:51
Then. 04:18:57
You know is is the first it's the first Thursday available for everybody. Is the third Thursday available for everybody is a is a 04:18:59
different attorney might want to and the city attorney may have to weigh in on this before I say anything more. Mr. Pierick. 04:19:06
I was waiting for that question. The answer is you can. 04:19:14
Discuss this now and come to an agreement, or at least however many of you have got your calendars with you as to what your 04:19:20
availability is to schedule a special meeting. 04:19:26
OK. Thank you. 04:19:33
So how, how is everybody you know Thursday works the best? I don't know if it does. 04:19:35
But before we met, when the Planning Commission met twice a month, we met on the 1st and 3rd Thursday. Not that that's sacrosanct 04:19:39
or anything like that. 04:19:43
But how do you feel about meeting on the 1st? 04:19:47
Even the 3rd for that matter, But certainly we're reading on the second, which is October 12th. 04:19:50
So that's. 04:19:57
That's I would suggest the 12th and the 19th, and that would give staff time to take whatever we recommend on the 19th. 04:19:58
Time to prepare that. 04:20:08
For the City Council in November, I think. 04:20:09
OK, how how do how do you all feel about that? 04:20:13
Billable. 04:20:17
Everybody seems to be shaking their heads no. 04:20:19
Andy Kubica says no. 04:20:21
And I don't know what Bill Frederickson would say because he told me his schedule, but. 04:20:23
Think he's OK? You're going to be gone. 04:20:28
You can do it the 5th which is October 5th. How does it? 04:20:31
The only problem I think the thing that we need to think about is what other meetings does the staff have to staff and I think 04:20:46
it's really important to keep that in mind. 04:20:51
Instead of just trying to do arbitrary. 04:20:57
Seriously. Because I mean, they got lots of stuff they got to do. 04:21:00
So we have. 04:21:07
Most people can make the 12th and the 19th. One person can not but can make the 5th. 04:21:09
And we don't know about Mr. Friedrich. 04:21:15
And Commissioner Fredericks. 04:21:18
Who I will call, I think I can call him. 04:21:20
And ask. 04:21:23
I I think it would be good if we could pick. 04:21:27
Umm. 04:21:30
Two meeting dates. 04:21:31
Or maybe even a possible third? 04:21:33
And then give it to the staff and see if it works for them. 04:21:37
And. 04:21:42
We may not have everybody able to come, but I think as long as we have a quorum that should be sufficient. 04:21:44
All right. Do you want to make that as a motion? 04:21:51
Is that we? Do we have to have a motion for that, Mister Perry? 04:21:54
Or just no you don't. 04:21:57
No, you don't need to make a motion for that, but I can tell you my experience is usually that I'm trying to, as I think you're 04:21:59
experiencing from the last few minutes. 04:22:03
Trying to to do this amongst yourselves is sometimes a challenge, but you could do is just ask staff to coordinate with the 04:22:08
individual commissioners and find a mutually acceptable date for your special meeting, and I think that would save you some time 04:22:13
here. 04:22:18
Well, we certainly gotten a head start on that. We can certainly turn that over to them, you know. 04:22:24
I think. 04:22:30
Commissioner Sawyers come in about picking two or three dates. I think we have that. 04:22:32
We can go from there if that if that's works for the Commission, then we can. 04:22:36
As Director White Mr. 04:22:41
Campbell, if they can do that to finalize it. I think we we have two or three dates in mind already and then of course that gets 04:22:43
into. 04:22:46
Availability of. 04:22:50
Meeting Hall and everything like that. 04:22:52
Does that work? 04:22:54
Charlie, yes, we appreciate your. 04:22:56
Committing to a second meeting if needed and we will definitely. 04:23:00
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