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Good afternoon, everybody. I'd like to call to order the July 26, 2023 meeting of the Historic Resources Committee. 00:00:00
And I'd like to begin with the roll call, please. 00:00:11
Chair Anton. 00:00:16
Present. 00:00:17
Vice chair steers. 00:00:19
Here. 00:00:20
Remember Grannis? 00:00:21
Here. 00:00:23
Member Greening. 00:00:24
Here. 00:00:28
Yeah. 00:00:30
All members are present. 00:00:34
Thank you very much and. 00:00:36
Just before we go to approval of the agenda, I just want to say that the agenda is. 00:00:39
Put together by myself and the staff together, working together. 00:00:44
So just so you'll know, so with that, do I have a motion to approve the agenda? 00:00:50
So moved. Thank you. 00:00:56
Do I have a second? 00:00:58
And may we have a roll call vote please. 00:01:01
Vice chair steers. 00:01:04
Yes, aye. 00:01:06
Member Grannis. 00:01:09
Aye. 00:01:11
Member Greening. 00:01:13
Member Cleese. 00:01:16
Member Pickett. 00:01:18
Chair Anton. 00:01:20
Aye. 00:01:21
Six Eyes. 00:01:25
No nays. 00:01:27
Motion passes. 00:01:28
Thank you. 00:01:30
We'll go to Item 3, committee and staff announcements. Do we have any committee announcements? 00:01:32
Seeing none and I believe we have a staff announcement. 00:01:39
So there's there's no committee or staff announcements. 00:01:43
I. 00:01:46
I don't. 00:01:47
I asked if there were any committee announcements. 00:01:49
Nobody said anything. 00:01:52
And now I'm asking if there are any staff announcements. They're all on the same item. 00:01:53
I would like to. 00:01:57
Say something, if I may. 00:01:58
Ohh, an announcement, OK Or I hope it's the right timing and if I'm not doing the right timing, correct me please. 00:02:00
But I would like to see agendize the path that's. Is that the wrong time to do that? Yes OK guys. 00:02:08
Committee announcements. 00:02:17
Staff has one announcement. I'm sorry, yes, I'm looking at you and saying the wrong word. Staff announcements. 00:02:19
There, Anton and committee members, the chief of police is helping create a new committee to help facilitate communication between 00:02:25
the boards and commissions. 00:02:30
The purpose is to improve communication amongst the boards and commissions to create better collaboration on projects. 00:02:35
Programs for the community. 00:02:44
Here's a brief summary of the the working group. 00:02:47
On a voluntary basis, one member from each board and Commission will meet. 00:02:50
At a cadence of the group's choosing monthly, quarterly, et cetera. 00:02:55
To discuss programs, projects, issues, or concerns that are being discussed on each member's respective board. 00:02:59
That member will return to the respective boards and provide an update on areas that would directly reflect or impact their 00:03:06
specific board. 00:03:10
Similar to how council liaison brings an update from the previous council meeting to our boards. 00:03:15
This will not involve staff or council time. 00:03:21
The chief of police will be willing to facilitate. 00:03:25
The first one or two meetings to help the group establish A cadence and parameters for the meeting. 00:03:28
If any committee member would like to volunteer for this new committee. 00:03:34
Please let me know and I will relay your contact information to the Chief of Police. 00:03:39
Thank you. 00:03:43
Thank you. 00:03:44
So I'll say if anybody's interested, let me know. 00:03:47
Or let Garrett know. 00:03:50
Was there a problem that? 00:03:52
This sentence imposed discussion items. So. 00:03:54
We can't discuss it, OK, Well, I don't. We need to volunteer blindly. 00:03:59
I could say something that I won't do you want to further explain. 00:04:06
We could come back and at the next meeting and put this on the agenda for discussion. OK, thank you. 00:04:11
All right, let's move to item 4, Council liaison announcements. 00:04:22
And welcome, Mayor Pete. Thank you for coming. 00:04:26
Good afternoon, Chair and committee members. Thank you for being here. Just real briefly, recent actions by the Council, we talked 00:04:33
about and took some actions in regards to coastal wildlife protection. 00:04:41
Umm. 00:04:50
Recommending A consultant to get a consultant for the updating the local coastal plan. 00:04:53
Also and other measures. 00:05:00
We discussed. 00:05:02
Or approved. 00:05:05
First study for the Five way Intersection at Sunset, Cedar and Congress. 00:05:06
This is. 00:05:13
A temp C funded study. 00:05:14
And we'll see what happens around about is a possibility but other ideas could come up and then upcoming a council the housing 00:05:19
element general plan update. 00:05:25
Climate action and adaptation plan, so stay tuned. 00:05:31
Thank you for being here. 00:05:36
Thank you. Thank you for being here. 00:05:38
All right, item five, general public comment. 00:05:42
Tonight there is another meeting going on in this building, so I. 00:05:46
I'm going to limit public comment to two minutes today. 00:05:52
We have received a number of items. 00:05:57
Through the e-mail and they are in our packet, I know we received one more this afternoon or this morning. 00:06:00
And. 00:06:07
So I'm going to limit to two minutes. So do we have public comment? 00:06:11
We'll start with the Well, there's nobody present, so I guess it'll all be virtual. 00:06:17
I see, one hand raised. 00:06:25
I will allow Lisa Chiani to speak. 00:06:27
Thank you. As you know, many of us have asked for Pat Hathaway's residence in the workplace. 00:06:33
To be placed on the HRC agenda for consideration of adding it to the HR. I and I now request again that it be placed on your next 00:06:38
agenda. 00:06:43
Next month or last month, the Architectural Review Board approved a remodel for the residents. 00:06:48
At 960 Bayview without a phase two assessment, despite its being triggered by the phase one assessments conclusion, staff and ARB 00:06:53
disregarded the city's guidelines. 00:06:58
For historic resource assessments. 00:07:03
And the many public comments, including by experts and made no reference to the secretary of Interior standards. It remains to be 00:07:05
seen whether the residents will continue to meet those standards when and if the alterations are built. 00:07:12
The phase one assessment which I've provided finds the property retains its historic. 00:07:19
Integrity and qualifies for listing on the HRI meeting criterion. H quote for its Spanish Revival Mediterranean architectural 00:07:24
design, representative of other similar homes built in Pacific Grove during the 20s. End Quote. As you know, HRC has the authority 00:07:32
to add the property to the HRI following a public hearing as described in city code. 00:07:40
In addition, Pat Hathaway's extensive and carefully documented historic photographic collection brings to light so much of PG's 00:07:50
history in a way we can all relate to. The historic home where Pat lived and worked deserves its place on. 00:07:57
PG's historic inventory. 00:08:04
Umm. 00:08:06
Please form a subcommittee also to consider the illogical and detrimental process or lack of defined process that the City is 00:08:07
following for review of alterations to properties with a phase one assessment that qualifies them for listing on the HRI, but they 00:08:14
are able to skip HRC and go to ARB instead. 00:08:20
The Boards, Committees and Commissions Handbook encourages, as HRC members to be knowledgeable about historic preservation 00:08:27
Ordinance, Historic Context Statement, Secretary of Interior Standards and Historic Resources Inventory. ARB is not expected to be 00:08:33
knowledgeable about those reference materials. 00:08:39
Please. 00:08:45
Sorry, but the time is up. 00:08:47
Do we have other public comment? 00:08:51
And we have one more hand raised. I'll allow Inga Lorenzen Dahmer to speak. 00:08:53
I won't take your time except to say I agree with everything Lisa said and. 00:09:01
Probably what she didn't quite get to say. 00:09:07
And I will say that historic homes, especially when a phase one comes through, this is a warped process that happened and I 00:09:10
encourage the HRC to review historic homes, which this one had a phase one that absolutely said it was. 00:09:19
And it was disregarded and I'm asking you to please. 00:09:28
Put it on your agenda. 00:09:32
And review it and add it. 00:09:34
To the inventory. 00:09:36
Thank you very much. 00:09:38
Thank you. 00:09:40
We have one more hand raised. I will. 00:09:47
Allow Tony Chiani to speak. 00:09:49
Excuse me, I just unmuted. 00:09:56
Good afternoon, members of the HRC. 00:09:58
Umm. 00:10:03
The American Tin Cannery at 109125. 00:10:04
Ocean View Blvd. 00:10:08
Had a historic resources report technical report prepared. 00:10:10
By Page and Turnbull. 00:10:14
Hank. 00:10:17
Historic preservation consultants. 00:10:18
In June 2020. 00:10:21
The summary. 00:10:23
Of. 00:10:25
And I'm quoting the summary of historic significance. 00:10:25
Determination. 00:10:29
And all because of the time, we'll jump to the end of. 00:10:30
Of the paragraph. 00:10:34
It it determined. 00:10:36
It is also eligible for. 00:10:38
P Pacific Grove Historic Resources Inventory as it meets local criteria. 00:10:41
A C. 00:10:47
E. 00:10:49
HI. 00:10:50
Therefore. 00:10:52
I request. 00:10:53
The Historic Resources Committee to initiate. 00:10:54
Listing of the ATC historic buildings. 00:10:58
That page and Turnbull Inc. 00:11:00
Determined to be eligible for the City of Pacific Grove. 00:11:02
Historic. 00:11:06
Resources, inventory, and to schedule a public hearing of this matter. 00:11:08
Pursuant. 00:11:12
To Pacific Grove Municipal Code. 00:11:14
I wanted to also say. 00:11:17
They determined that it's not all those buildings. 00:11:19
Three of those buildings. 00:11:22
The factory, the office, and the warehouse are all eligible. 00:11:24
On the for the HRI and. 00:11:28
The California Register of Historic Places. 00:11:31
Thank you. 00:11:34
Thank you. 00:11:36
I see no other hands raised. 00:11:42
All right. Thank you. I'm going to close public comment. 00:11:44
Our next item is the consent agenda. 00:11:48
Does anybody on the committee wish? 00:11:51
To pull an item from the consent agenda. 00:11:54
No. 00:11:58
Take that as a no. 00:11:59
Does any does any member of the audience wish to pull something from the consent agenda? 00:12:02
I see no hands raised. 00:12:12
All right. Thank you. Can I have a motion to approve the consent agenda, please? 00:12:14
Thank you. 00:12:22
Do we have a second? I'll second it. Yes, you. 00:12:23
May we have a roll call vote please? 00:12:27
Remember Grannis? 00:12:29
Vice chair steers. 00:12:34
Aye. 00:12:36
Member Greening. 00:12:38
Member, please. 00:12:41
Aye. 00:12:42
Member Bickett. 00:12:44
Aye. 00:12:45
Chair Anton. 00:12:46
Aye. 00:12:48
We have six eyes, 0 nays, motion passes with one vacancy, 1 vacancy. 00:12:49
Thank you. 00:12:57
All right, moving to the regular agenda, we don't have any public hearings this time. 00:13:00
So we will move to item number 11, presentations. 00:13:05
And I do have something that I'd like to say before I turn this over to the. 00:13:09
To Mr. McGowan. 00:13:14
So let me make a few comments. I did write them down so I could. 00:13:17
Make sure I copies or covered everything I wanted. 00:13:21
In 2018, Nineteen, Page and Turnbull did a review of our Historic Resources Inventory and they made a number of recommendations. 00:13:24
At the time, there were approximately 12180 properties on the HRI. 00:13:32
They suggested that 371 be deleted. 00:13:37
For various reasons, including those that were no longer there due to fire or demolition. 00:13:41
Or those that had been remodeled beyond recognition? 00:13:46
And even those with moderate alterations. 00:13:49
There were 91 that fit this first description. 00:13:53
And they were deleted. 00:13:56
Those that weren't there anymore, I would suggest that it was a relatively easy task for the committee. 00:13:58
Two members currently on the HRC can probably attest to that. 00:14:03
That left 278 to be reviewed 1 by 1, which is where we are at the present. 00:14:09
Since February 2022. 00:14:14
We have been looking at the properties, starting with those in the identified first edition area of Pacific Grove. 00:14:17
We have barely made headway. 00:14:23
Please understand that this is a tedious process. 00:14:25
Each property has to be legally notified and posted 10 days in advance of our meetings. 00:14:28
Staff and committee members. 00:14:34
Each visit the property separately in advance of the meeting. We take time on our meetings to be sure that we were that we are 00:14:36
doing the right thing. 00:14:40
And I can say that so far we have retained more properties than we have deleted. 00:14:45
But as we delete some of them. 00:14:50
We still want to provide some level of design protection. 00:14:52
To keep our historic houses as unique as possible and that takes us to the presentation before us. 00:14:56
We are seeking what page and Turnbull has suggested. 00:15:03
That we create. 00:15:06
A neighborhood character list or lists. 00:15:07
To take care of those properties that are deleted from the HRI but that still retain enough integrity to have design protection in 00:15:10
any future development. 00:15:14
We have reached out to them to help us with this task and you will hear from them in a few minutes. 00:15:19
I also want to add that we have a list of 48 properties that may be eligible for the HR I. 00:15:24
As listed in the 2018 Nineteen page and Turnbull report. 00:15:31
Those we will review when we finish looking at the 278 possible deletions that I mentioned. 00:15:35
I appreciate our staff for the support they have given. 00:15:42
It's been a steep learning curve for me. 00:15:45
Our other three new members probably agree. 00:15:48
I have said that I'd like to get through this process before I term out. 00:15:51
We'll see how that goes. 00:15:55
So with that Mister McGowan, I believe you have a report. 00:15:58
Or I'm sorry. 00:16:03
Miss Wyatt, please. 00:16:05
Thank you. 00:16:06
At Cherry, Anton and members of the HRC in anticipation of this presentation and the work that. 00:16:07
We. 00:16:15
Have been working with Chair Anton to continue from the prior work of Page and Turnbull. 00:16:16
This was budgeted for this fiscal year. Work to be done on this was budgeted this fiscal year and approved by council. 00:16:23
So the presentation you're hearing tonight? 00:16:31
Will be information for you. You're able to ask questions of Page and Turnbull and then we expect to come back at the next 00:16:34
meeting. 00:16:39
With a final. 00:16:44
Proposal from Page and Turnbull for you to approve, so this is for your consideration. 00:16:47
This afternoon. 00:16:53
And we will come back to you for a decision, but just keep in mind we did already budget, the Council did approve this. 00:16:55
Um type of work moving forward to continue the work that you've been doing. Thank you. And one question. 00:17:04
In light of the presentation, what are we tasked to look for so that we can? 00:17:11
Provide the best input. 00:17:16
Considering this is going to be discussed next meeting. 00:17:17
So. 00:17:20
What are what are we tasked to do? Is what I'm asking for me. 00:17:21
In listening to this presentation, I mean, I think our task is to listen to what they have. 00:17:26
To say not with the intention of anything that we have to decide upon in next meeting. 00:17:31
At the. It'll be agendized at the next meeting. 00:17:37
OK. 00:17:40
I guess I understand that makes sense sort of. I mean I I think giving a presentation I just it would help me to clarify to know. 00:17:40
Are we being asked if we agree with their entire premise that they're saying we'll divide it up ABCDE and we say yes, no, maybe. 00:17:48
What, are we just listening and then we decide amongst ourselves? I don't know. 00:17:57
Through the chair. 00:18:03
Commissioner Cleese, yes, we, you'll listen today. It is about helping us move forward as as a committee, for helping you move 00:18:06
forward as a committee on your decisions regarding deletions. 00:18:12
If you want to consider also some of the. 00:18:19
Prior work from Page and Turnbull. 00:18:22
In the historic. 00:18:24
And. 00:18:26
Context statement and user guide that is. 00:18:27
300 pages of some of you have read it. It it did recommend possibly with the neighborhood character list considering historic 00:18:30
districts, so there will be some discussion about that. So it's really just continuing on with the work that's been completed by 00:18:36
Page and Turnbull in the past. 00:18:42
Giving you as a committee an opportunity to hear where are we right now? 00:18:48
What? How could we move forward? It is really a good time for us to do this as we move forward with the housing element, with 00:18:53
objective development and design standards. 00:18:58
So that we do protect our historic areas and our historic properties. 00:19:04
So this is just continuing on in the work you've been doing for years. Thank you for that clarification. 00:19:08
Alright. 00:19:20
Chair Anton and Committee members, the purpose of this presentation is to provide information in regards to moving forward with 00:19:21
the Pacific Grove Neighborhood Character List. 00:19:27
And related review processes. 00:19:33
As well as exploring updates to the preservation ordinance to address local historic districts. 00:19:35
Page and Turnbull has worked on the city's historic preservation ordinance. 00:19:41
Historic context statement and the user guide. 00:19:46
So, without further ado, I would like to introduce Page and Turnbull representative Hannah Simonson. 00:19:50
To provide details of the proposal and scope of work. 00:19:56
Thank you. 00:20:00
Hi, can you all hear me? 00:20:06
Yes, we can. Thank you. 00:20:09
Great. Hi, I'm Hannah Simonson. 00:20:11
I'm a cultural resources planner with Page and Turnbull and I. 00:20:13
Worked on some of the the more recent work that Page and Turnbull has done with Pacific Grove, so we're really happy to be here 00:20:19
today and hopefully with this opportunity, like Anesthesia said to continue on. 00:20:26
In the work that you all are doing in Pacific Grove related to historic preservation. So the purpose of this brief presentation 00:20:34
today is really just to outline our proposed. 00:20:41
Scope of work right now and. 00:20:48
And get. 00:20:53
Comments and and direction on that. I think that this is sort of an interim step on the the road to implementing some of the 00:20:55
recommendations that have been previously outlined before and an opportunity for us to have a conversation on the HRC and staff 00:21:05
and the public to be able to really understand what the options are moving forward and provide. 00:21:15
Um, feedback and recommendations so that so that we can kind of keep moving this process forward? 00:21:26
Garrett, if you can go to the next slide. 00:21:31
So as a recap has has been mentioned, there's been quite a lot of work that Pacific Grove has done over the years and Page and 00:21:35
Turnbull has been really proud to be involved in some of those. 00:21:41
Projects including writing the historic context statement back in 2011 as well as preparing some considerations and 00:21:47
recommendations related to Pacific Growth Preservation program. At that same time and as was mentioned, we also undertook this 00:21:54
historic resources inventory update survey that was completed back in 2019. So all of that work has of course been been informing 00:22:02
the the process. 00:22:10
In Pacific Grove. 00:22:17
Next slide. 00:22:19
Please. 00:22:21
So as some of you may be familiar with the. 00:22:23
The recommended the findings and recommendations from that Pacific Grove HR I update, including recommendations for which 00:22:28
properties should remain on Pacific Grows, historic resources inventory, as well as which properties should be removed on as was 00:22:35
mentioned by Cherry Anton, the. 00:22:41
A number of properties had been demolished or significantly altered over time such that they didn't meet the criteria for. 00:22:48
For for listing in terms of integrity. 00:23:00
Through the really extensive community and HRC input at the time of that. 00:23:04
Project We made a recommendation to identify this what what has been called the neighborhood character list. 00:23:10
Properties that may not meet the eligibility or integrity standards for local, state or National Register designation, which is 00:23:21
also to say that they wouldn't be. 00:23:26
UH qualified historic resources for, let's say, sequel review, but still contribute to the general character and aesthetics and 00:23:32
history of Pacific Grove. 00:23:36
To kind of identify those. 00:23:41
As a separate list and. 00:23:43
Uh. 00:23:48
Think so that there could be you know some thought given to them and not have them just you know just deleted off the HRI and 00:23:49
there to be kind of no process. So that was that was some of the thinking there. So that was a recommendation at the time next 00:23:54
slide. 00:24:00
We also identified several potentially eligible historic districts including the around the retreat area, obviously one of the the 00:24:08
oldest, most historic areas of Pacific Grove and a commercial area. 00:24:16
Right now, Pacific Grove Ordinance does not have. 00:24:25
A means for designating historic districts, but this was something that we, you know, notice that there there was a concentration 00:24:30
of of HRI properties, but also properties that either weren't on the HRI or maybe didn't have quite enough integrity to to remain 00:24:38
on the HRI but still contributed to the character. So, you know these these groupings convey a kind of. 00:24:47
Significance and character that is maybe. 00:24:56
Greater than the sum of their parts in a way. So you know there's of course a lot of individually significant structures, but in a 00:24:59
sense it's you know the the overall character of these streets and the the pattern and layout of them is also significant in and 00:25:07
of itself. So the we identified several potentially eligible historic districts as a way of thinking of. 00:25:14
Potentially different ways of managing, review and treating historic resources in the future. 00:25:23
Next slide. 00:25:31
So as was mentioned there, the work since the Historic Resource Inventory Update project. 00:25:34
A number of properties that had clearly lost integrity, such as those that had been, you know, fully demolished, were removed from 00:25:43
the HRI, and then there's been this. 00:25:48
Uh, slower process of reviewing some of the other properties that were recommended for deletion from the HRI based on loss of 00:25:53
integrity. 00:25:58
And then there's other properties that have. 00:26:04
Been recommended for this? 00:26:07
Neighborhood character list. 00:26:09
Next slide. 00:26:12
Um, so the goals of this? 00:26:15
Project that we're coming to you with right now for discussion and then hopefully you know approval and then in the near future 00:26:17
would be you know overall the project goals are to help. 00:26:24
The the community of Pacific Grove to really address this desire to protect and foster Pacific Groves unique community character 00:26:31
and to make recommendations around formalizing project review processes and eligibility related to the neighborhood character 00:26:37
list. 00:26:43
Um to make that process easier and more clear both for property owners as well as city staff and the HRC and kind of overall 00:26:50
bolster the preservation program with current best practices as as I think has clearly been expressed a desire within the 00:26:56
community to do that. So this would be helping move forward some of the the recommendations and ideas that have come out of 00:27:03
previous previous work. 00:27:09
Next slide. 00:27:17
So. 00:27:19
Like I mentioned this. 00:27:21
This project that we're discussing right now is sort of an interim step on the way to hopefully some other options for work that 00:27:23
the the city can engage with. So the summary of this project would be a presentation to the HRC. So that would be our our 00:27:33
deliverable so to speak and that presentation would have a, you know I did kind of a a brief summary of some of this. 00:27:44
But it would be a more robust summary of the existing preservation program and HR and the status of the neighborhood character 00:27:54
list. 00:27:58
We would provide comparative examples and best practices from other California jurisdictions who are dealing with things like a 00:28:03
local register and maybe. 00:28:08
A kind of tiered inventory system. We would also be providing options and recommendations for next steps that the city and the HRC 00:28:14
could react to and use as a a tool for kind of. 00:28:22
Planning out and budgeting future projects to undertake so options you know could could include things like formalizing the 00:28:29
neighborhood character list through updates to the preservation ordinance. 00:28:36
And implementing. 00:28:43
Review clear review processes associated with that updating the preservation ordinance for adoption of either historic districts 00:28:46
or character areas. 00:28:52
Or developing design standards for historic resources or historic districts and. 00:28:58
These are, you know, different. There's a number of different paths that the that Pacific Grove can take. And so this future 00:29:04
presentation would be the goal would be to lay out some of those options and some of the, let's say pro pros and cons or the 00:29:11
different levels of efforts and the different benefits. 00:29:18
Of pursuing different paths so that the HRC and the city can make an informed decision about what the next steps will be in terms 00:29:25
of. 00:29:30
Umm. 00:29:36
Making improvements to the the preservation program. 00:29:37
And. 00:29:42
Garrett, that might be the last slide, I think. 00:29:43
Yes, I think that's my last slide. So happy to answer questions that that you all have. 00:29:47
Umm. 00:29:56
Turned off. 00:30:04
Thank you, Anna. 00:30:06
We will first go out to public comment, which I will also ask for two minutes or less. 00:30:08
And then? 00:30:15
We can have some comments here from Mark. 00:30:16
Committee. 00:30:19
Yeah, one hand raised. 00:30:21
I'll ask Angel Lorenzen Dahmer to speak. 00:30:23
Hello I want to know if the that slide presentation will be included. 00:30:29
In the agenda or the minutes or something, I wrote to the planning. Now the CDC. Well, HR hi I I wrote to you and asked if it 00:30:35
would be very useful to have those for the public to see. 00:30:41
Even before the presentation, so I hope that they will be included. 00:30:48
Somewhere that the public can easily access them. I'd appreciate that. 00:30:53
Thank you very much. 00:30:58
Thank you. 00:31:00
Allowed Tony Chiani to speak. 00:31:08
Wait. 00:31:19
My. 00:31:20
You're at the time, strong. 00:31:30
Tony Ciani. 00:31:33
Allow you to speak. 00:31:35
Hello, I apologize for the confusion. 00:31:41
Umm. 00:31:44
I enjoyed the presentation. I think it's a. 00:31:46
Great step forward. I wonder if you have. 00:31:48
The. 00:31:54
An idea about the timeline. 00:31:57
And not just the timeline maybe? 00:32:01
If you could provide. 00:32:04
The HRC and the community was sort of a suggested. 00:32:06
Program for carrying this out. 00:32:12
Like. 00:32:15
The first meeting, second meeting, third meeting. 00:32:16
Public participation or workshops? 00:32:19
And with. 00:32:22
Some sort of a goal when various tasks. 00:32:24
Would be completed. Thank you. 00:32:27
Thank you. 00:32:30
I will allow Lisa Chiani to speak. 00:32:38
Thank you. Yeah, I really. 00:32:43
Appreciated the presentation and I was ready to listen for another 10 minutes or so, but. 00:32:47
Yeah, so. 00:32:54
It it's awkward, having not been given any advance idea of what this this proposal. 00:32:57
And. 00:33:06
Which I I think that's what this was. I was listening as fast as I could, so. 00:33:07
Anyway, I I'm I'm really glad that that we are. 00:33:14
Moving forward in some way with the neighborhood character list. 00:33:20
I would like to say in. 00:33:26
In response to the. 00:33:29
Incho. 00:33:31
To this. 00:33:32
That. 00:33:33
I I. 00:33:34
I was not aware that. 00:33:35
HRC as a body had made the decision not to do any. 00:33:38
Additions before they got done with all the deletions. 00:33:44
So I'm hoping that. 00:33:50
Some of the historic preservation. 00:33:52
Ordinance. 00:33:55
Some aspects of that. 00:33:58
That go beyond just the neighborhood character list because this is all about. 00:34:00
Preserving our. 00:34:06
Amazing historic resources in this in this town. 00:34:08
So I hope that A. 00:34:13
Slightly more comprehensive view will be taken. 00:34:16
So that it all works together. 00:34:21
Seamlessly, let's use that word. All right. Thank you. 00:34:24
Thank you. 00:34:29
I see no other hands raised. 00:34:33
All right. I'll close public comment and I will ask the. 00:34:35
Committee to Please direct your questions to Hannah. 00:34:40
For now, on what? 00:34:43
We don't have it, this agenda used as a discussion, but you can certainly direct your questions to Hannah. 00:34:45
So, yeah, Jennifer Hannah, hi. Thank you very much. I had a question after reading the survey report, the area in the survey 00:34:52
report on the neighborhood character list. 00:34:57
It appeared to me that what you were recommending in the report is that. 00:35:03
Homes that have come off the HRI but are in the neighborhood character list, if they come up for remodel or whatever, may come to 00:35:09
them that instead of going before the ARB, they would come to the HRC for review automatically if they're on the neighborhood 00:35:14
character list. Is that correct? 00:35:20
I think this project would be exploring those options and making some recommendations about different review processes that the 00:35:27
city and Commission could choose to adopt. Right now there isn't a formally adopted process, so we would be making recommendations 00:35:34
about. 00:35:40
That review process and how? 00:35:48
It, you know since. 00:35:51
Since the recommendation is that they are not on the HRI but a neighborhood character list, it seems justified that there should 00:35:53
be stunned difference in review. So we would be making recommendations about what what that would look like based on, you know, 00:35:59
our conversations with staff and and HRC. 00:36:06
Thank you. 00:36:14
You sure have a few. 00:36:18
Yes, I have a question question. Thank you, Hannah. 00:36:22
It would be. 00:36:26
To me seem a little bit difficult. 00:36:27
To have a character list in areas like. 00:36:29
The Silima district and some of the other tract areas where we don't have. 00:36:34
Like a defined. 00:36:40
Historic District. 00:36:42
Where the houses are very much all over the place. 00:36:45
How would we deal with that? 00:36:50
I think that's a good question and I think that one of the things that we would want to explore is. 00:36:55
Whether the best way to address? 00:37:03
These kinds of properties is through these kind of individual. 00:37:08
Neighborhood Care The The name Neighborhood character list. 00:37:14
Umm. 00:37:18
Was was come up with at the at the time. It is individual property. So I understand what you mean. There's you know some of them 00:37:19
may be in areas that. 00:37:24
Don't have the same kind of density as say the retreat area, but I think that there's. 00:37:29
Ways that those can be. 00:37:35
Can still be reviewed, but in in places like the retreat neighborhood and the commercial kind of core, I think there is some value 00:37:38
in looking at those neighborhoods more holistically potentially, but there could be. 00:37:45
Multiple kind of tiers of designation to address those different conditions. 00:37:54
And I think one of the recommendations would be to explore some kind of. 00:38:04
Design standards that could help. 00:38:10
With that type of review for HRC and RB to to have a a better sense of you know what different. 00:38:15
Different kinds of alterations, or. 00:38:25
Or. 00:38:29
Or different kinds of projects are appropriate for different types of? 00:38:30
Historic resources or neighborhood character properties. 00:38:35
What exactly would be your definition of a neighborhood character list in your mind? 00:38:42
Well, I think that's a a good question and part of what this project would want to explore the. 00:38:50
The list was developed based on. 00:38:58
Properties that did not appear to. 00:39:02
Still meet the requirements for remaining on. 00:39:06
The inventory. 00:39:10
But at the time, there was not a discussion about. 00:39:12
Adding properties to the neighborhood character list in the future, but if that's. 00:39:17
Something that the community wants to explore. I think that we would want to. 00:39:22
Or would recommend developing a? 00:39:27
Clearer set of definitions and process by which that would happen. 00:39:32
You know, as we've gone through this in the last year and a half. 00:39:41
And there there are houses that we can look at and and we're very clear about what where they belong. 00:39:44
There are houses that were very clear that don't belong. 00:39:51
And so this is sort of addressing those in the middle where it's. 00:39:55
Kind of 5050 and so we have. 00:39:58
Kind of we've we've deleted them but we've also said in our in the motions actually that we would. 00:40:01
Suggests that they be on a neighbourhood character list. 00:40:08
Which we don't, we don't have at the moment, so. 00:40:12
That's where we are right now and before we go. 00:40:16
Forward with all of you know, looking at the other potential deletions. 00:40:19
We feel like we need a a very secure place to put those sort of in between houses. 00:40:23
And and we tend to have. 00:40:29
Quite a few, because you know the. 00:40:31
I guess the the rules for design have kind of. 00:40:34
It didn't you know, flowed over the years and things have happened that maybe shouldn't have, etcetera. 00:40:38
But we don't want to give up on them entirely, so. 00:40:43
We're really looking for that in between for the houses that fit in between. 00:40:47
And I hope that makes sense to you, but. 00:40:51
I I feel a real need for that, just so that as we move forward, at least we have a place where we can still protect them. 00:40:54
Yes, absolutely. And I think that there's. 00:41:04
I think that part of what this project would explore to kind of put forward. 00:41:08
Options and recommendations for the HRC to react to would include. 00:41:14
Could it could include maintaining a neighborhood character list of individual properties? 00:41:20
Or could take a slightly different path in identifying. 00:41:27
Character areas or historic? 00:41:33
Districts that are kind of larger but. 00:41:37
I think that many of those properties that you're talking about do fall in kind of concentrated areas. So there's I think several 00:41:40
options. 00:41:44
That could be explored and I think that's what we want to help you all do is to make an informed decision about what makes the 00:41:50
most sense for addressing those, especially those types of properties that are kind of in that middle between clearly historic 00:41:57
resources, but. 00:42:04
You know, still still add to the the overall character of Pacific Grove. 00:42:12
Thank you. 00:42:17
That's another question. 00:42:19
So. 00:42:21
Questions before that, if I may. I just wanted to ask what we're doing next. 00:42:28
So I mean my my sequentially, sorry, I just sorry, I meant to say it that way. I said it badly. I apologize. 00:42:32
Sorry, I just wondered what our next steps are? What is our next step? Or is it something page and Turnbull, is it going to do or 00:42:40
is it something we are going to be involved in doing? 00:42:45
Through the chair. 00:42:50
Yes. 00:42:51
We had. 00:42:52
We we plan on coming back if for in the next month. 00:42:54
With the proposal from. 00:42:59
Page and Turnbull for your. 00:43:01
Official review and and to approve and like I said this. 00:43:04
Was budgeted in this fiscal year and approved by council. 00:43:09
And so we've already covered that. So it's just this is an opportunity to introduce the subject. 00:43:12
To allow you to ask questions to the consultant and then we will come back next month for. 00:43:19
For Page and Turnbull to make any modifications to their proposal. 00:43:25
Umm. 00:43:30
Based on hearing your questions and what their direction that you want to go forward in and we'll bring it back next month and be 00:43:31
ready for you. 00:43:35
Thank you. Yeah, go ahead, Joe. Thank you. Sorry for the intrusion, Jeannie. I didn't mean to have it turned out that way. I'm 00:43:39
glad the council liaison is here. And Ken, it's good to see you again. I was there at the 2019 presentation. We had a full house, 00:43:46
300 people if you remember, and we had a podium and there were many, many, many people there. So it's something our entire 00:43:54
community is interested in. And I for one, and I echo Deanie's comments, we have been putting these new potential. 00:44:02
Neighborhood character list homes in this null and void pile because it I'm hoping that it's going to exist. We're all hoping it's 00:44:09
going to exist. But I don't feel comfortable and I think. 00:44:16
Most of the people here might share that opinion, putting a a label on something or hoping that something happens when it's not 00:44:23
really solidified because the people and things change all the time. We're always changing. 00:44:28
That said, and I'm glad the council liaison is here because I'm wondering if your expertise about how other communities are doing 00:44:35
this with their historic resources committee might come into play. Because one of our I see it as a problem, other people may not. 00:44:43
We're very limited on what we can do as a committee. We can only make a property ineligible or eligible for the HR I it's it's 00:44:50
different wording. We are very limited in our powers. 00:44:58
I'd like to see that change. That's a personal opinion. And if we're tasked to put something in a neighborhood character list, I 00:45:06
think there could be a problem. Maybe the homeowner doesn't want their house. Or do we say it's not ineligible? And are we given 00:45:12
that strange language to say that, you know, they're not ineligible for the historic character list? So I see word problems coming 00:45:18
up as a writer that we need, we need to have more power as an HRC, I think, in order to really do a little bit more in roles that 00:45:24
we can do. 00:45:30
And there's a lot of expertise on this committee. I'd like to see that come into play. Another thing that I'm wondering is 00:45:37
community involvement. We had 300 people at that 2019 meeting and you know are we have no audience here. We have a virtual 00:45:43
audience, but I know this would have community interest and would that be considered public participation and would they 00:45:50
automatically, I'm repeating this question, but it does concern me. 00:45:56
If we say and had that power as an HRC to say, we consider this house to be included. 00:46:03
On our neighborhood character list. 00:46:11
Will that mean it will? Or we will be able to say it's not ineligible for the HR, the neighborhood character list, which would 00:46:13
really baffle me. That's it. Thank you. 00:46:17
Through the chair. 00:46:25
Yes. I'm not sure if Hannah wants to respond. Yeah, yeah, I can. I can respond to that. I think that the the, the scope that is. 00:46:29
Proposed right now and that you all see our our formal proposal for soon. 00:46:39
Um would be primarily. 00:46:45
An informational presentation outlining different. 00:46:48
Options for HRC to review 2 and we would hope that, I mean that would be at a a public. 00:46:53
Hearings such as this, and we would hope that that would be advertised to the public to also hear public input, but I think that 00:47:02
the the. 00:47:07
More public engagement. 00:47:13
Would be expected at the kind of next step once. 00:47:15
Uh. 00:47:22
Once. 00:47:23
The HRC and the city kind of decides in a in a general direction to go and then really engage the community on some of those more 00:47:24
fine grained details and really get to work on those. 00:47:31
Umm. 00:47:38
Those more specific things that that you mentioned. 00:47:39
Great. Thank you. 00:47:43
Thank you. Rick, did you want to ask any questions of Hannah? 00:47:44
You've been very quiet. 00:47:48
I'm expecting and hoping that this. 00:47:51
Presentation that you're putting together next month Will. 00:47:54
We'll have. 00:47:58
As you describe a description of the process. 00:47:59
And options for the process. 00:48:05
Umm. 00:48:08
And. 00:48:10
I think it would be best to. 00:48:13
Respond to it then, not now. 00:48:15
But maybe Garrett or anesthesia can also jump in. But I do want to clarify that right now we are coming with a proposal for work 00:48:20
that we're hoping to get approved so that we can engage in some of this deeper thinking and these comparisons and really doing 00:48:27
this analysis to come to you with. 00:48:35
The. 00:48:43
The the robust presentation this is. 00:48:44
This is more you know me just kind of here to to talk about our scope of work. But the the, the, the meaty presentation that would 00:48:47
be for discussion would be. 00:48:53
You know, some some some months into the future after this scope is approved by the city. 00:49:01
Go ahead. 00:49:09
I just am wondering with it, does the neighborhood character list? Are they under the same protection as the HRC? 00:49:11
Sorry, inventory. 00:49:24
I think the simple answer is no. 00:49:28
I think that's right. Thank you. 00:49:37
So does anybody else on the committee. 00:49:39
Again, we're addressing all these two hannahs, so if any of you have some more. 00:49:42
Questions At this time, I think you know we're. 00:49:47
We have a lot to sort of think about. 00:49:50
And. 00:49:53
I think that we will. 00:49:55
Be happy to hear from hear the next step. 00:49:57
Because I've we do need to sort of define what what we want to do and exactly. 00:50:02
Where we want to move when we have several directions, whether it's a historic district or character list, or maybe somewhat of a 00:50:07
a blend of the two. 00:50:11
So do you feel handed that you have enough sort of feedback right now? 00:50:16
From us. 00:50:23
I I think so. I mean, I think this is enough feedback for our. 00:50:26
Proposal and then. 00:50:31
If the proposed scope of work is approved, we would engage with the city and potentially representatives of the HRC to have some 00:50:32
more discussions kind of as as we get into the work leading up to that more robust. 00:50:41
Public HRC presentation. 00:50:51
Great. OK. Any other comments from our staff people? 00:50:54
Cherry Anton, I just wanted to state that. 00:50:59
There was an article in the pine cone recently about Carmel also looking at. 00:51:03
Protections for notable homes. And so I think we're all kind of in that boat right now looking at. 00:51:08
How do we do this? And this is a great opportunity for the HRC to have. 00:51:14
Expert advice from this this. 00:51:19
Um. 00:51:22
Page and Turnbull, who's been working diligently on. 00:51:23
All all of our historic resources, so we appreciate the opportunity to present this to you today and appreciate Hannah. 00:51:26
For being here and. 00:51:34
Thank you. 00:51:36
Well, and I appreciate. And Hannah, you've you've been here enough that I feel that you have a good feel for Pacific Grove too. I 00:51:38
know you've. 00:51:41
Spent a lot of time here. 00:51:45
And and so that's very helpful and it will be helpful moving forward as well. 00:51:47
OK. 00:51:52
Do you have a question or a broader question? This is corrected. 00:51:53
Two handed them. 00:51:57
Yes. 00:51:58
You mentioned a commercial. 00:52:00
Design District. 00:52:03
In passing and I just wanted to. 00:52:06
A lot of work has been done on commercial design standards in the past by some of us and. 00:52:09
Those standards kind of laid on somebody's desk and disappeared. Does somebody know that they exist and will they come up 00:52:17
eventually? 00:52:21
Is my question. 00:52:27
I'm glad you brought that up. I I'm not sure that I've seen those before, but we would love to review those as were. 00:52:30
As we're engaging with this work and and making recommendations. 00:52:39
OK. 00:52:44
Something to be done later, certainly, but. 00:52:45
Any other questions directed to Hannah? 00:52:49
Just thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. 00:52:52
I did have a comment about the commercial district, which I think is very, very important that we protect because there's a lot of 00:52:55
pressure for additional housing and things like that that are coming up. And I think it's really important that we protect, 00:53:01
protect the historic district. 00:53:06
That's all. 00:53:12
All right. 00:53:16
Think are any questions from you? Any comments? 00:53:18
All right, Hannah. Thank you very, very much and I look forward to working with you more. 00:53:22
And hopefully we'll see you down here one of these days again. 00:53:27
When the sun comes out, What's that? Yeah, when is that not summer time? 00:53:32
Could you please? 00:53:40
All right. Thank you. Thank you, Hannah. 00:53:42
Alright, uh, the next meeting August 23rd, 23. So with that I will. 00:53:46
I think just declared that this meeting has adjourned. 00:53:52
Thank you. 00:53:56
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Good afternoon, everybody. I'd like to call to order the July 26, 2023 meeting of the Historic Resources Committee. 00:00:00
And I'd like to begin with the roll call, please. 00:00:11
Chair Anton. 00:00:16
Present. 00:00:17
Vice chair steers. 00:00:19
Here. 00:00:20
Remember Grannis? 00:00:21
Here. 00:00:23
Member Greening. 00:00:24
Here. 00:00:28
Yeah. 00:00:30
All members are present. 00:00:34
Thank you very much and. 00:00:36
Just before we go to approval of the agenda, I just want to say that the agenda is. 00:00:39
Put together by myself and the staff together, working together. 00:00:44
So just so you'll know, so with that, do I have a motion to approve the agenda? 00:00:50
So moved. Thank you. 00:00:56
Do I have a second? 00:00:58
And may we have a roll call vote please. 00:01:01
Vice chair steers. 00:01:04
Yes, aye. 00:01:06
Member Grannis. 00:01:09
Aye. 00:01:11
Member Greening. 00:01:13
Member Cleese. 00:01:16
Member Pickett. 00:01:18
Chair Anton. 00:01:20
Aye. 00:01:21
Six Eyes. 00:01:25
No nays. 00:01:27
Motion passes. 00:01:28
Thank you. 00:01:30
We'll go to Item 3, committee and staff announcements. Do we have any committee announcements? 00:01:32
Seeing none and I believe we have a staff announcement. 00:01:39
So there's there's no committee or staff announcements. 00:01:43
I. 00:01:46
I don't. 00:01:47
I asked if there were any committee announcements. 00:01:49
Nobody said anything. 00:01:52
And now I'm asking if there are any staff announcements. They're all on the same item. 00:01:53
I would like to. 00:01:57
Say something, if I may. 00:01:58
Ohh, an announcement, OK Or I hope it's the right timing and if I'm not doing the right timing, correct me please. 00:02:00
But I would like to see agendize the path that's. Is that the wrong time to do that? Yes OK guys. 00:02:08
Committee announcements. 00:02:17
Staff has one announcement. I'm sorry, yes, I'm looking at you and saying the wrong word. Staff announcements. 00:02:19
There, Anton and committee members, the chief of police is helping create a new committee to help facilitate communication between 00:02:25
the boards and commissions. 00:02:30
The purpose is to improve communication amongst the boards and commissions to create better collaboration on projects. 00:02:35
Programs for the community. 00:02:44
Here's a brief summary of the the working group. 00:02:47
On a voluntary basis, one member from each board and Commission will meet. 00:02:50
At a cadence of the group's choosing monthly, quarterly, et cetera. 00:02:55
To discuss programs, projects, issues, or concerns that are being discussed on each member's respective board. 00:02:59
That member will return to the respective boards and provide an update on areas that would directly reflect or impact their 00:03:06
specific board. 00:03:10
Similar to how council liaison brings an update from the previous council meeting to our boards. 00:03:15
This will not involve staff or council time. 00:03:21
The chief of police will be willing to facilitate. 00:03:25
The first one or two meetings to help the group establish A cadence and parameters for the meeting. 00:03:28
If any committee member would like to volunteer for this new committee. 00:03:34
Please let me know and I will relay your contact information to the Chief of Police. 00:03:39
Thank you. 00:03:43
Thank you. 00:03:44
So I'll say if anybody's interested, let me know. 00:03:47
Or let Garrett know. 00:03:50
Was there a problem that? 00:03:52
This sentence imposed discussion items. So. 00:03:54
We can't discuss it, OK, Well, I don't. We need to volunteer blindly. 00:03:59
I could say something that I won't do you want to further explain. 00:04:06
We could come back and at the next meeting and put this on the agenda for discussion. OK, thank you. 00:04:11
All right, let's move to item 4, Council liaison announcements. 00:04:22
And welcome, Mayor Pete. Thank you for coming. 00:04:26
Good afternoon, Chair and committee members. Thank you for being here. Just real briefly, recent actions by the Council, we talked 00:04:33
about and took some actions in regards to coastal wildlife protection. 00:04:41
Umm. 00:04:50
Recommending A consultant to get a consultant for the updating the local coastal plan. 00:04:53
Also and other measures. 00:05:00
We discussed. 00:05:02
Or approved. 00:05:05
First study for the Five way Intersection at Sunset, Cedar and Congress. 00:05:06
This is. 00:05:13
A temp C funded study. 00:05:14
And we'll see what happens around about is a possibility but other ideas could come up and then upcoming a council the housing 00:05:19
element general plan update. 00:05:25
Climate action and adaptation plan, so stay tuned. 00:05:31
Thank you for being here. 00:05:36
Thank you. Thank you for being here. 00:05:38
All right, item five, general public comment. 00:05:42
Tonight there is another meeting going on in this building, so I. 00:05:46
I'm going to limit public comment to two minutes today. 00:05:52
We have received a number of items. 00:05:57
Through the e-mail and they are in our packet, I know we received one more this afternoon or this morning. 00:06:00
And. 00:06:07
So I'm going to limit to two minutes. So do we have public comment? 00:06:11
We'll start with the Well, there's nobody present, so I guess it'll all be virtual. 00:06:17
I see, one hand raised. 00:06:25
I will allow Lisa Chiani to speak. 00:06:27
Thank you. As you know, many of us have asked for Pat Hathaway's residence in the workplace. 00:06:33
To be placed on the HRC agenda for consideration of adding it to the HR. I and I now request again that it be placed on your next 00:06:38
agenda. 00:06:43
Next month or last month, the Architectural Review Board approved a remodel for the residents. 00:06:48
At 960 Bayview without a phase two assessment, despite its being triggered by the phase one assessments conclusion, staff and ARB 00:06:53
disregarded the city's guidelines. 00:06:58
For historic resource assessments. 00:07:03
And the many public comments, including by experts and made no reference to the secretary of Interior standards. It remains to be 00:07:05
seen whether the residents will continue to meet those standards when and if the alterations are built. 00:07:12
The phase one assessment which I've provided finds the property retains its historic. 00:07:19
Integrity and qualifies for listing on the HRI meeting criterion. H quote for its Spanish Revival Mediterranean architectural 00:07:24
design, representative of other similar homes built in Pacific Grove during the 20s. End Quote. As you know, HRC has the authority 00:07:32
to add the property to the HRI following a public hearing as described in city code. 00:07:40
In addition, Pat Hathaway's extensive and carefully documented historic photographic collection brings to light so much of PG's 00:07:50
history in a way we can all relate to. The historic home where Pat lived and worked deserves its place on. 00:07:57
PG's historic inventory. 00:08:04
Umm. 00:08:06
Please form a subcommittee also to consider the illogical and detrimental process or lack of defined process that the City is 00:08:07
following for review of alterations to properties with a phase one assessment that qualifies them for listing on the HRI, but they 00:08:14
are able to skip HRC and go to ARB instead. 00:08:20
The Boards, Committees and Commissions Handbook encourages, as HRC members to be knowledgeable about historic preservation 00:08:27
Ordinance, Historic Context Statement, Secretary of Interior Standards and Historic Resources Inventory. ARB is not expected to be 00:08:33
knowledgeable about those reference materials. 00:08:39
Please. 00:08:45
Sorry, but the time is up. 00:08:47
Do we have other public comment? 00:08:51
And we have one more hand raised. I'll allow Inga Lorenzen Dahmer to speak. 00:08:53
I won't take your time except to say I agree with everything Lisa said and. 00:09:01
Probably what she didn't quite get to say. 00:09:07
And I will say that historic homes, especially when a phase one comes through, this is a warped process that happened and I 00:09:10
encourage the HRC to review historic homes, which this one had a phase one that absolutely said it was. 00:09:19
And it was disregarded and I'm asking you to please. 00:09:28
Put it on your agenda. 00:09:32
And review it and add it. 00:09:34
To the inventory. 00:09:36
Thank you very much. 00:09:38
Thank you. 00:09:40
We have one more hand raised. I will. 00:09:47
Allow Tony Chiani to speak. 00:09:49
Excuse me, I just unmuted. 00:09:56
Good afternoon, members of the HRC. 00:09:58
Umm. 00:10:03
The American Tin Cannery at 109125. 00:10:04
Ocean View Blvd. 00:10:08
Had a historic resources report technical report prepared. 00:10:10
By Page and Turnbull. 00:10:14
Hank. 00:10:17
Historic preservation consultants. 00:10:18
In June 2020. 00:10:21
The summary. 00:10:23
Of. 00:10:25
And I'm quoting the summary of historic significance. 00:10:25
Determination. 00:10:29
And all because of the time, we'll jump to the end of. 00:10:30
Of the paragraph. 00:10:34
It it determined. 00:10:36
It is also eligible for. 00:10:38
P Pacific Grove Historic Resources Inventory as it meets local criteria. 00:10:41
A C. 00:10:47
E. 00:10:49
HI. 00:10:50
Therefore. 00:10:52
I request. 00:10:53
The Historic Resources Committee to initiate. 00:10:54
Listing of the ATC historic buildings. 00:10:58
That page and Turnbull Inc. 00:11:00
Determined to be eligible for the City of Pacific Grove. 00:11:02
Historic. 00:11:06
Resources, inventory, and to schedule a public hearing of this matter. 00:11:08
Pursuant. 00:11:12
To Pacific Grove Municipal Code. 00:11:14
I wanted to also say. 00:11:17
They determined that it's not all those buildings. 00:11:19
Three of those buildings. 00:11:22
The factory, the office, and the warehouse are all eligible. 00:11:24
On the for the HRI and. 00:11:28
The California Register of Historic Places. 00:11:31
Thank you. 00:11:34
Thank you. 00:11:36
I see no other hands raised. 00:11:42
All right. Thank you. I'm going to close public comment. 00:11:44
Our next item is the consent agenda. 00:11:48
Does anybody on the committee wish? 00:11:51
To pull an item from the consent agenda. 00:11:54
No. 00:11:58
Take that as a no. 00:11:59
Does any does any member of the audience wish to pull something from the consent agenda? 00:12:02
I see no hands raised. 00:12:12
All right. Thank you. Can I have a motion to approve the consent agenda, please? 00:12:14
Thank you. 00:12:22
Do we have a second? I'll second it. Yes, you. 00:12:23
May we have a roll call vote please? 00:12:27
Remember Grannis? 00:12:29
Vice chair steers. 00:12:34
Aye. 00:12:36
Member Greening. 00:12:38
Member, please. 00:12:41
Aye. 00:12:42
Member Bickett. 00:12:44
Aye. 00:12:45
Chair Anton. 00:12:46
Aye. 00:12:48
We have six eyes, 0 nays, motion passes with one vacancy, 1 vacancy. 00:12:49
Thank you. 00:12:57
All right, moving to the regular agenda, we don't have any public hearings this time. 00:13:00
So we will move to item number 11, presentations. 00:13:05
And I do have something that I'd like to say before I turn this over to the. 00:13:09
To Mr. McGowan. 00:13:14
So let me make a few comments. I did write them down so I could. 00:13:17
Make sure I copies or covered everything I wanted. 00:13:21
In 2018, Nineteen, Page and Turnbull did a review of our Historic Resources Inventory and they made a number of recommendations. 00:13:24
At the time, there were approximately 12180 properties on the HRI. 00:13:32
They suggested that 371 be deleted. 00:13:37
For various reasons, including those that were no longer there due to fire or demolition. 00:13:41
Or those that had been remodeled beyond recognition? 00:13:46
And even those with moderate alterations. 00:13:49
There were 91 that fit this first description. 00:13:53
And they were deleted. 00:13:56
Those that weren't there anymore, I would suggest that it was a relatively easy task for the committee. 00:13:58
Two members currently on the HRC can probably attest to that. 00:14:03
That left 278 to be reviewed 1 by 1, which is where we are at the present. 00:14:09
Since February 2022. 00:14:14
We have been looking at the properties, starting with those in the identified first edition area of Pacific Grove. 00:14:17
We have barely made headway. 00:14:23
Please understand that this is a tedious process. 00:14:25
Each property has to be legally notified and posted 10 days in advance of our meetings. 00:14:28
Staff and committee members. 00:14:34
Each visit the property separately in advance of the meeting. We take time on our meetings to be sure that we were that we are 00:14:36
doing the right thing. 00:14:40
And I can say that so far we have retained more properties than we have deleted. 00:14:45
But as we delete some of them. 00:14:50
We still want to provide some level of design protection. 00:14:52
To keep our historic houses as unique as possible and that takes us to the presentation before us. 00:14:56
We are seeking what page and Turnbull has suggested. 00:15:03
That we create. 00:15:06
A neighborhood character list or lists. 00:15:07
To take care of those properties that are deleted from the HRI but that still retain enough integrity to have design protection in 00:15:10
any future development. 00:15:14
We have reached out to them to help us with this task and you will hear from them in a few minutes. 00:15:19
I also want to add that we have a list of 48 properties that may be eligible for the HR I. 00:15:24
As listed in the 2018 Nineteen page and Turnbull report. 00:15:31
Those we will review when we finish looking at the 278 possible deletions that I mentioned. 00:15:35
I appreciate our staff for the support they have given. 00:15:42
It's been a steep learning curve for me. 00:15:45
Our other three new members probably agree. 00:15:48
I have said that I'd like to get through this process before I term out. 00:15:51
We'll see how that goes. 00:15:55
So with that Mister McGowan, I believe you have a report. 00:15:58
Or I'm sorry. 00:16:03
Miss Wyatt, please. 00:16:05
Thank you. 00:16:06
At Cherry, Anton and members of the HRC in anticipation of this presentation and the work that. 00:16:07
We. 00:16:15
Have been working with Chair Anton to continue from the prior work of Page and Turnbull. 00:16:16
This was budgeted for this fiscal year. Work to be done on this was budgeted this fiscal year and approved by council. 00:16:23
So the presentation you're hearing tonight? 00:16:31
Will be information for you. You're able to ask questions of Page and Turnbull and then we expect to come back at the next 00:16:34
meeting. 00:16:39
With a final. 00:16:44
Proposal from Page and Turnbull for you to approve, so this is for your consideration. 00:16:47
This afternoon. 00:16:53
And we will come back to you for a decision, but just keep in mind we did already budget, the Council did approve this. 00:16:55
Um type of work moving forward to continue the work that you've been doing. Thank you. And one question. 00:17:04
In light of the presentation, what are we tasked to look for so that we can? 00:17:11
Provide the best input. 00:17:16
Considering this is going to be discussed next meeting. 00:17:17
So. 00:17:20
What are what are we tasked to do? Is what I'm asking for me. 00:17:21
In listening to this presentation, I mean, I think our task is to listen to what they have. 00:17:26
To say not with the intention of anything that we have to decide upon in next meeting. 00:17:31
At the. It'll be agendized at the next meeting. 00:17:37
OK. 00:17:40
I guess I understand that makes sense sort of. I mean I I think giving a presentation I just it would help me to clarify to know. 00:17:40
Are we being asked if we agree with their entire premise that they're saying we'll divide it up ABCDE and we say yes, no, maybe. 00:17:48
What, are we just listening and then we decide amongst ourselves? I don't know. 00:17:57
Through the chair. 00:18:03
Commissioner Cleese, yes, we, you'll listen today. It is about helping us move forward as as a committee, for helping you move 00:18:06
forward as a committee on your decisions regarding deletions. 00:18:12
If you want to consider also some of the. 00:18:19
Prior work from Page and Turnbull. 00:18:22
In the historic. 00:18:24
And. 00:18:26
Context statement and user guide that is. 00:18:27
300 pages of some of you have read it. It it did recommend possibly with the neighborhood character list considering historic 00:18:30
districts, so there will be some discussion about that. So it's really just continuing on with the work that's been completed by 00:18:36
Page and Turnbull in the past. 00:18:42
Giving you as a committee an opportunity to hear where are we right now? 00:18:48
What? How could we move forward? It is really a good time for us to do this as we move forward with the housing element, with 00:18:53
objective development and design standards. 00:18:58
So that we do protect our historic areas and our historic properties. 00:19:04
So this is just continuing on in the work you've been doing for years. Thank you for that clarification. 00:19:08
Alright. 00:19:20
Chair Anton and Committee members, the purpose of this presentation is to provide information in regards to moving forward with 00:19:21
the Pacific Grove Neighborhood Character List. 00:19:27
And related review processes. 00:19:33
As well as exploring updates to the preservation ordinance to address local historic districts. 00:19:35
Page and Turnbull has worked on the city's historic preservation ordinance. 00:19:41
Historic context statement and the user guide. 00:19:46
So, without further ado, I would like to introduce Page and Turnbull representative Hannah Simonson. 00:19:50
To provide details of the proposal and scope of work. 00:19:56
Thank you. 00:20:00
Hi, can you all hear me? 00:20:06
Yes, we can. Thank you. 00:20:09
Great. Hi, I'm Hannah Simonson. 00:20:11
I'm a cultural resources planner with Page and Turnbull and I. 00:20:13
Worked on some of the the more recent work that Page and Turnbull has done with Pacific Grove, so we're really happy to be here 00:20:19
today and hopefully with this opportunity, like Anesthesia said to continue on. 00:20:26
In the work that you all are doing in Pacific Grove related to historic preservation. So the purpose of this brief presentation 00:20:34
today is really just to outline our proposed. 00:20:41
Scope of work right now and. 00:20:48
And get. 00:20:53
Comments and and direction on that. I think that this is sort of an interim step on the the road to implementing some of the 00:20:55
recommendations that have been previously outlined before and an opportunity for us to have a conversation on the HRC and staff 00:21:05
and the public to be able to really understand what the options are moving forward and provide. 00:21:15
Um, feedback and recommendations so that so that we can kind of keep moving this process forward? 00:21:26
Garrett, if you can go to the next slide. 00:21:31
So as a recap has has been mentioned, there's been quite a lot of work that Pacific Grove has done over the years and Page and 00:21:35
Turnbull has been really proud to be involved in some of those. 00:21:41
Projects including writing the historic context statement back in 2011 as well as preparing some considerations and 00:21:47
recommendations related to Pacific Growth Preservation program. At that same time and as was mentioned, we also undertook this 00:21:54
historic resources inventory update survey that was completed back in 2019. So all of that work has of course been been informing 00:22:02
the the process. 00:22:10
In Pacific Grove. 00:22:17
Next slide. 00:22:19
Please. 00:22:21
So as some of you may be familiar with the. 00:22:23
The recommended the findings and recommendations from that Pacific Grove HR I update, including recommendations for which 00:22:28
properties should remain on Pacific Grows, historic resources inventory, as well as which properties should be removed on as was 00:22:35
mentioned by Cherry Anton, the. 00:22:41
A number of properties had been demolished or significantly altered over time such that they didn't meet the criteria for. 00:22:48
For for listing in terms of integrity. 00:23:00
Through the really extensive community and HRC input at the time of that. 00:23:04
Project We made a recommendation to identify this what what has been called the neighborhood character list. 00:23:10
Properties that may not meet the eligibility or integrity standards for local, state or National Register designation, which is 00:23:21
also to say that they wouldn't be. 00:23:26
UH qualified historic resources for, let's say, sequel review, but still contribute to the general character and aesthetics and 00:23:32
history of Pacific Grove. 00:23:36
To kind of identify those. 00:23:41
As a separate list and. 00:23:43
Uh. 00:23:48
Think so that there could be you know some thought given to them and not have them just you know just deleted off the HRI and 00:23:49
there to be kind of no process. So that was that was some of the thinking there. So that was a recommendation at the time next 00:23:54
slide. 00:24:00
We also identified several potentially eligible historic districts including the around the retreat area, obviously one of the the 00:24:08
oldest, most historic areas of Pacific Grove and a commercial area. 00:24:16
Right now, Pacific Grove Ordinance does not have. 00:24:25
A means for designating historic districts, but this was something that we, you know, notice that there there was a concentration 00:24:30
of of HRI properties, but also properties that either weren't on the HRI or maybe didn't have quite enough integrity to to remain 00:24:38
on the HRI but still contributed to the character. So, you know these these groupings convey a kind of. 00:24:47
Significance and character that is maybe. 00:24:56
Greater than the sum of their parts in a way. So you know there's of course a lot of individually significant structures, but in a 00:24:59
sense it's you know the the overall character of these streets and the the pattern and layout of them is also significant in and 00:25:07
of itself. So the we identified several potentially eligible historic districts as a way of thinking of. 00:25:14
Potentially different ways of managing, review and treating historic resources in the future. 00:25:23
Next slide. 00:25:31
So as was mentioned there, the work since the Historic Resource Inventory Update project. 00:25:34
A number of properties that had clearly lost integrity, such as those that had been, you know, fully demolished, were removed from 00:25:43
the HRI, and then there's been this. 00:25:48
Uh, slower process of reviewing some of the other properties that were recommended for deletion from the HRI based on loss of 00:25:53
integrity. 00:25:58
And then there's other properties that have. 00:26:04
Been recommended for this? 00:26:07
Neighborhood character list. 00:26:09
Next slide. 00:26:12
Um, so the goals of this? 00:26:15
Project that we're coming to you with right now for discussion and then hopefully you know approval and then in the near future 00:26:17
would be you know overall the project goals are to help. 00:26:24
The the community of Pacific Grove to really address this desire to protect and foster Pacific Groves unique community character 00:26:31
and to make recommendations around formalizing project review processes and eligibility related to the neighborhood character 00:26:37
list. 00:26:43
Um to make that process easier and more clear both for property owners as well as city staff and the HRC and kind of overall 00:26:50
bolster the preservation program with current best practices as as I think has clearly been expressed a desire within the 00:26:56
community to do that. So this would be helping move forward some of the the recommendations and ideas that have come out of 00:27:03
previous previous work. 00:27:09
Next slide. 00:27:17
So. 00:27:19
Like I mentioned this. 00:27:21
This project that we're discussing right now is sort of an interim step on the way to hopefully some other options for work that 00:27:23
the the city can engage with. So the summary of this project would be a presentation to the HRC. So that would be our our 00:27:33
deliverable so to speak and that presentation would have a, you know I did kind of a a brief summary of some of this. 00:27:44
But it would be a more robust summary of the existing preservation program and HR and the status of the neighborhood character 00:27:54
list. 00:27:58
We would provide comparative examples and best practices from other California jurisdictions who are dealing with things like a 00:28:03
local register and maybe. 00:28:08
A kind of tiered inventory system. We would also be providing options and recommendations for next steps that the city and the HRC 00:28:14
could react to and use as a a tool for kind of. 00:28:22
Planning out and budgeting future projects to undertake so options you know could could include things like formalizing the 00:28:29
neighborhood character list through updates to the preservation ordinance. 00:28:36
And implementing. 00:28:43
Review clear review processes associated with that updating the preservation ordinance for adoption of either historic districts 00:28:46
or character areas. 00:28:52
Or developing design standards for historic resources or historic districts and. 00:28:58
These are, you know, different. There's a number of different paths that the that Pacific Grove can take. And so this future 00:29:04
presentation would be the goal would be to lay out some of those options and some of the, let's say pro pros and cons or the 00:29:11
different levels of efforts and the different benefits. 00:29:18
Of pursuing different paths so that the HRC and the city can make an informed decision about what the next steps will be in terms 00:29:25
of. 00:29:30
Umm. 00:29:36
Making improvements to the the preservation program. 00:29:37
And. 00:29:42
Garrett, that might be the last slide, I think. 00:29:43
Yes, I think that's my last slide. So happy to answer questions that that you all have. 00:29:47
Umm. 00:29:56
Turned off. 00:30:04
Thank you, Anna. 00:30:06
We will first go out to public comment, which I will also ask for two minutes or less. 00:30:08
And then? 00:30:15
We can have some comments here from Mark. 00:30:16
Committee. 00:30:19
Yeah, one hand raised. 00:30:21
I'll ask Angel Lorenzen Dahmer to speak. 00:30:23
Hello I want to know if the that slide presentation will be included. 00:30:29
In the agenda or the minutes or something, I wrote to the planning. Now the CDC. Well, HR hi I I wrote to you and asked if it 00:30:35
would be very useful to have those for the public to see. 00:30:41
Even before the presentation, so I hope that they will be included. 00:30:48
Somewhere that the public can easily access them. I'd appreciate that. 00:30:53
Thank you very much. 00:30:58
Thank you. 00:31:00
Allowed Tony Chiani to speak. 00:31:08
Wait. 00:31:19
My. 00:31:20
You're at the time, strong. 00:31:30
Tony Ciani. 00:31:33
Allow you to speak. 00:31:35
Hello, I apologize for the confusion. 00:31:41
Umm. 00:31:44
I enjoyed the presentation. I think it's a. 00:31:46
Great step forward. I wonder if you have. 00:31:48
The. 00:31:54
An idea about the timeline. 00:31:57
And not just the timeline maybe? 00:32:01
If you could provide. 00:32:04
The HRC and the community was sort of a suggested. 00:32:06
Program for carrying this out. 00:32:12
Like. 00:32:15
The first meeting, second meeting, third meeting. 00:32:16
Public participation or workshops? 00:32:19
And with. 00:32:22
Some sort of a goal when various tasks. 00:32:24
Would be completed. Thank you. 00:32:27
Thank you. 00:32:30
I will allow Lisa Chiani to speak. 00:32:38
Thank you. Yeah, I really. 00:32:43
Appreciated the presentation and I was ready to listen for another 10 minutes or so, but. 00:32:47
Yeah, so. 00:32:54
It it's awkward, having not been given any advance idea of what this this proposal. 00:32:57
And. 00:33:06
Which I I think that's what this was. I was listening as fast as I could, so. 00:33:07
Anyway, I I'm I'm really glad that that we are. 00:33:14
Moving forward in some way with the neighborhood character list. 00:33:20
I would like to say in. 00:33:26
In response to the. 00:33:29
Incho. 00:33:31
To this. 00:33:32
That. 00:33:33
I I. 00:33:34
I was not aware that. 00:33:35
HRC as a body had made the decision not to do any. 00:33:38
Additions before they got done with all the deletions. 00:33:44
So I'm hoping that. 00:33:50
Some of the historic preservation. 00:33:52
Ordinance. 00:33:55
Some aspects of that. 00:33:58
That go beyond just the neighborhood character list because this is all about. 00:34:00
Preserving our. 00:34:06
Amazing historic resources in this in this town. 00:34:08
So I hope that A. 00:34:13
Slightly more comprehensive view will be taken. 00:34:16
So that it all works together. 00:34:21
Seamlessly, let's use that word. All right. Thank you. 00:34:24
Thank you. 00:34:29
I see no other hands raised. 00:34:33
All right. I'll close public comment and I will ask the. 00:34:35
Committee to Please direct your questions to Hannah. 00:34:40
For now, on what? 00:34:43
We don't have it, this agenda used as a discussion, but you can certainly direct your questions to Hannah. 00:34:45
So, yeah, Jennifer Hannah, hi. Thank you very much. I had a question after reading the survey report, the area in the survey 00:34:52
report on the neighborhood character list. 00:34:57
It appeared to me that what you were recommending in the report is that. 00:35:03
Homes that have come off the HRI but are in the neighborhood character list, if they come up for remodel or whatever, may come to 00:35:09
them that instead of going before the ARB, they would come to the HRC for review automatically if they're on the neighborhood 00:35:14
character list. Is that correct? 00:35:20
I think this project would be exploring those options and making some recommendations about different review processes that the 00:35:27
city and Commission could choose to adopt. Right now there isn't a formally adopted process, so we would be making recommendations 00:35:34
about. 00:35:40
That review process and how? 00:35:48
It, you know since. 00:35:51
Since the recommendation is that they are not on the HRI but a neighborhood character list, it seems justified that there should 00:35:53
be stunned difference in review. So we would be making recommendations about what what that would look like based on, you know, 00:35:59
our conversations with staff and and HRC. 00:36:06
Thank you. 00:36:14
You sure have a few. 00:36:18
Yes, I have a question question. Thank you, Hannah. 00:36:22
It would be. 00:36:26
To me seem a little bit difficult. 00:36:27
To have a character list in areas like. 00:36:29
The Silima district and some of the other tract areas where we don't have. 00:36:34
Like a defined. 00:36:40
Historic District. 00:36:42
Where the houses are very much all over the place. 00:36:45
How would we deal with that? 00:36:50
I think that's a good question and I think that one of the things that we would want to explore is. 00:36:55
Whether the best way to address? 00:37:03
These kinds of properties is through these kind of individual. 00:37:08
Neighborhood Care The The name Neighborhood character list. 00:37:14
Umm. 00:37:18
Was was come up with at the at the time. It is individual property. So I understand what you mean. There's you know some of them 00:37:19
may be in areas that. 00:37:24
Don't have the same kind of density as say the retreat area, but I think that there's. 00:37:29
Ways that those can be. 00:37:35
Can still be reviewed, but in in places like the retreat neighborhood and the commercial kind of core, I think there is some value 00:37:38
in looking at those neighborhoods more holistically potentially, but there could be. 00:37:45
Multiple kind of tiers of designation to address those different conditions. 00:37:54
And I think one of the recommendations would be to explore some kind of. 00:38:04
Design standards that could help. 00:38:10
With that type of review for HRC and RB to to have a a better sense of you know what different. 00:38:15
Different kinds of alterations, or. 00:38:25
Or. 00:38:29
Or different kinds of projects are appropriate for different types of? 00:38:30
Historic resources or neighborhood character properties. 00:38:35
What exactly would be your definition of a neighborhood character list in your mind? 00:38:42
Well, I think that's a a good question and part of what this project would want to explore the. 00:38:50
The list was developed based on. 00:38:58
Properties that did not appear to. 00:39:02
Still meet the requirements for remaining on. 00:39:06
The inventory. 00:39:10
But at the time, there was not a discussion about. 00:39:12
Adding properties to the neighborhood character list in the future, but if that's. 00:39:17
Something that the community wants to explore. I think that we would want to. 00:39:22
Or would recommend developing a? 00:39:27
Clearer set of definitions and process by which that would happen. 00:39:32
You know, as we've gone through this in the last year and a half. 00:39:41
And there there are houses that we can look at and and we're very clear about what where they belong. 00:39:44
There are houses that were very clear that don't belong. 00:39:51
And so this is sort of addressing those in the middle where it's. 00:39:55
Kind of 5050 and so we have. 00:39:58
Kind of we've we've deleted them but we've also said in our in the motions actually that we would. 00:40:01
Suggests that they be on a neighbourhood character list. 00:40:08
Which we don't, we don't have at the moment, so. 00:40:12
That's where we are right now and before we go. 00:40:16
Forward with all of you know, looking at the other potential deletions. 00:40:19
We feel like we need a a very secure place to put those sort of in between houses. 00:40:23
And and we tend to have. 00:40:29
Quite a few, because you know the. 00:40:31
I guess the the rules for design have kind of. 00:40:34
It didn't you know, flowed over the years and things have happened that maybe shouldn't have, etcetera. 00:40:38
But we don't want to give up on them entirely, so. 00:40:43
We're really looking for that in between for the houses that fit in between. 00:40:47
And I hope that makes sense to you, but. 00:40:51
I I feel a real need for that, just so that as we move forward, at least we have a place where we can still protect them. 00:40:54
Yes, absolutely. And I think that there's. 00:41:04
I think that part of what this project would explore to kind of put forward. 00:41:08
Options and recommendations for the HRC to react to would include. 00:41:14
Could it could include maintaining a neighborhood character list of individual properties? 00:41:20
Or could take a slightly different path in identifying. 00:41:27
Character areas or historic? 00:41:33
Districts that are kind of larger but. 00:41:37
I think that many of those properties that you're talking about do fall in kind of concentrated areas. So there's I think several 00:41:40
options. 00:41:44
That could be explored and I think that's what we want to help you all do is to make an informed decision about what makes the 00:41:50
most sense for addressing those, especially those types of properties that are kind of in that middle between clearly historic 00:41:57
resources, but. 00:42:04
You know, still still add to the the overall character of Pacific Grove. 00:42:12
Thank you. 00:42:17
That's another question. 00:42:19
So. 00:42:21
Questions before that, if I may. I just wanted to ask what we're doing next. 00:42:28
So I mean my my sequentially, sorry, I just sorry, I meant to say it that way. I said it badly. I apologize. 00:42:32
Sorry, I just wondered what our next steps are? What is our next step? Or is it something page and Turnbull, is it going to do or 00:42:40
is it something we are going to be involved in doing? 00:42:45
Through the chair. 00:42:50
Yes. 00:42:51
We had. 00:42:52
We we plan on coming back if for in the next month. 00:42:54
With the proposal from. 00:42:59
Page and Turnbull for your. 00:43:01
Official review and and to approve and like I said this. 00:43:04
Was budgeted in this fiscal year and approved by council. 00:43:09
And so we've already covered that. So it's just this is an opportunity to introduce the subject. 00:43:12
To allow you to ask questions to the consultant and then we will come back next month for. 00:43:19
For Page and Turnbull to make any modifications to their proposal. 00:43:25
Umm. 00:43:30
Based on hearing your questions and what their direction that you want to go forward in and we'll bring it back next month and be 00:43:31
ready for you. 00:43:35
Thank you. Yeah, go ahead, Joe. Thank you. Sorry for the intrusion, Jeannie. I didn't mean to have it turned out that way. I'm 00:43:39
glad the council liaison is here. And Ken, it's good to see you again. I was there at the 2019 presentation. We had a full house, 00:43:46
300 people if you remember, and we had a podium and there were many, many, many people there. So it's something our entire 00:43:54
community is interested in. And I for one, and I echo Deanie's comments, we have been putting these new potential. 00:44:02
Neighborhood character list homes in this null and void pile because it I'm hoping that it's going to exist. We're all hoping it's 00:44:09
going to exist. But I don't feel comfortable and I think. 00:44:16
Most of the people here might share that opinion, putting a a label on something or hoping that something happens when it's not 00:44:23
really solidified because the people and things change all the time. We're always changing. 00:44:28
That said, and I'm glad the council liaison is here because I'm wondering if your expertise about how other communities are doing 00:44:35
this with their historic resources committee might come into play. Because one of our I see it as a problem, other people may not. 00:44:43
We're very limited on what we can do as a committee. We can only make a property ineligible or eligible for the HR I it's it's 00:44:50
different wording. We are very limited in our powers. 00:44:58
I'd like to see that change. That's a personal opinion. And if we're tasked to put something in a neighborhood character list, I 00:45:06
think there could be a problem. Maybe the homeowner doesn't want their house. Or do we say it's not ineligible? And are we given 00:45:12
that strange language to say that, you know, they're not ineligible for the historic character list? So I see word problems coming 00:45:18
up as a writer that we need, we need to have more power as an HRC, I think, in order to really do a little bit more in roles that 00:45:24
we can do. 00:45:30
And there's a lot of expertise on this committee. I'd like to see that come into play. Another thing that I'm wondering is 00:45:37
community involvement. We had 300 people at that 2019 meeting and you know are we have no audience here. We have a virtual 00:45:43
audience, but I know this would have community interest and would that be considered public participation and would they 00:45:50
automatically, I'm repeating this question, but it does concern me. 00:45:56
If we say and had that power as an HRC to say, we consider this house to be included. 00:46:03
On our neighborhood character list. 00:46:11
Will that mean it will? Or we will be able to say it's not ineligible for the HR, the neighborhood character list, which would 00:46:13
really baffle me. That's it. Thank you. 00:46:17
Through the chair. 00:46:25
Yes. I'm not sure if Hannah wants to respond. Yeah, yeah, I can. I can respond to that. I think that the the, the scope that is. 00:46:29
Proposed right now and that you all see our our formal proposal for soon. 00:46:39
Um would be primarily. 00:46:45
An informational presentation outlining different. 00:46:48
Options for HRC to review 2 and we would hope that, I mean that would be at a a public. 00:46:53
Hearings such as this, and we would hope that that would be advertised to the public to also hear public input, but I think that 00:47:02
the the. 00:47:07
More public engagement. 00:47:13
Would be expected at the kind of next step once. 00:47:15
Uh. 00:47:22
Once. 00:47:23
The HRC and the city kind of decides in a in a general direction to go and then really engage the community on some of those more 00:47:24
fine grained details and really get to work on those. 00:47:31
Umm. 00:47:38
Those more specific things that that you mentioned. 00:47:39
Great. Thank you. 00:47:43
Thank you. Rick, did you want to ask any questions of Hannah? 00:47:44
You've been very quiet. 00:47:48
I'm expecting and hoping that this. 00:47:51
Presentation that you're putting together next month Will. 00:47:54
We'll have. 00:47:58
As you describe a description of the process. 00:47:59
And options for the process. 00:48:05
Umm. 00:48:08
And. 00:48:10
I think it would be best to. 00:48:13
Respond to it then, not now. 00:48:15
But maybe Garrett or anesthesia can also jump in. But I do want to clarify that right now we are coming with a proposal for work 00:48:20
that we're hoping to get approved so that we can engage in some of this deeper thinking and these comparisons and really doing 00:48:27
this analysis to come to you with. 00:48:35
The. 00:48:43
The the robust presentation this is. 00:48:44
This is more you know me just kind of here to to talk about our scope of work. But the the, the, the meaty presentation that would 00:48:47
be for discussion would be. 00:48:53
You know, some some some months into the future after this scope is approved by the city. 00:49:01
Go ahead. 00:49:09
I just am wondering with it, does the neighborhood character list? Are they under the same protection as the HRC? 00:49:11
Sorry, inventory. 00:49:24
I think the simple answer is no. 00:49:28
I think that's right. Thank you. 00:49:37
So does anybody else on the committee. 00:49:39
Again, we're addressing all these two hannahs, so if any of you have some more. 00:49:42
Questions At this time, I think you know we're. 00:49:47
We have a lot to sort of think about. 00:49:50
And. 00:49:53
I think that we will. 00:49:55
Be happy to hear from hear the next step. 00:49:57
Because I've we do need to sort of define what what we want to do and exactly. 00:50:02
Where we want to move when we have several directions, whether it's a historic district or character list, or maybe somewhat of a 00:50:07
a blend of the two. 00:50:11
So do you feel handed that you have enough sort of feedback right now? 00:50:16
From us. 00:50:23
I I think so. I mean, I think this is enough feedback for our. 00:50:26
Proposal and then. 00:50:31
If the proposed scope of work is approved, we would engage with the city and potentially representatives of the HRC to have some 00:50:32
more discussions kind of as as we get into the work leading up to that more robust. 00:50:41
Public HRC presentation. 00:50:51
Great. OK. Any other comments from our staff people? 00:50:54
Cherry Anton, I just wanted to state that. 00:50:59
There was an article in the pine cone recently about Carmel also looking at. 00:51:03
Protections for notable homes. And so I think we're all kind of in that boat right now looking at. 00:51:08
How do we do this? And this is a great opportunity for the HRC to have. 00:51:14
Expert advice from this this. 00:51:19
Um. 00:51:22
Page and Turnbull, who's been working diligently on. 00:51:23
All all of our historic resources, so we appreciate the opportunity to present this to you today and appreciate Hannah. 00:51:26
For being here and. 00:51:34
Thank you. 00:51:36
Well, and I appreciate. And Hannah, you've you've been here enough that I feel that you have a good feel for Pacific Grove too. I 00:51:38
know you've. 00:51:41
Spent a lot of time here. 00:51:45
And and so that's very helpful and it will be helpful moving forward as well. 00:51:47
OK. 00:51:52
Do you have a question or a broader question? This is corrected. 00:51:53
Two handed them. 00:51:57
Yes. 00:51:58
You mentioned a commercial. 00:52:00
Design District. 00:52:03
In passing and I just wanted to. 00:52:06
A lot of work has been done on commercial design standards in the past by some of us and. 00:52:09
Those standards kind of laid on somebody's desk and disappeared. Does somebody know that they exist and will they come up 00:52:17
eventually? 00:52:21
Is my question. 00:52:27
I'm glad you brought that up. I I'm not sure that I've seen those before, but we would love to review those as were. 00:52:30
As we're engaging with this work and and making recommendations. 00:52:39
OK. 00:52:44
Something to be done later, certainly, but. 00:52:45
Any other questions directed to Hannah? 00:52:49
Just thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. 00:52:52
I did have a comment about the commercial district, which I think is very, very important that we protect because there's a lot of 00:52:55
pressure for additional housing and things like that that are coming up. And I think it's really important that we protect, 00:53:01
protect the historic district. 00:53:06
That's all. 00:53:12
All right. 00:53:16
Think are any questions from you? Any comments? 00:53:18
All right, Hannah. Thank you very, very much and I look forward to working with you more. 00:53:22
And hopefully we'll see you down here one of these days again. 00:53:27
When the sun comes out, What's that? Yeah, when is that not summer time? 00:53:32
Could you please? 00:53:40
All right. Thank you. Thank you, Hannah. 00:53:42
Alright, uh, the next meeting August 23rd, 23. So with that I will. 00:53:46
I think just declared that this meeting has adjourned. 00:53:52
Thank you. 00:53:56
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