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23. 00:00:16
Can we please have a roll call? 00:00:19
Vote. 00:00:22
I mean vote. Can we please have a A roll call? 00:00:24
Yes, Chair. Before we do that, member Bornstein, if you're not here in person, you needed to publicly notify where your location 00:00:27
is so the public could join you. 00:00:33
I did. I don't believe that was done. That wasn't done through the city. 00:00:40
So. 00:00:45
You can listen to the meeting, but you cannot participate in voting. 00:00:46
OK, I thought by notifying you. 00:00:51
Before this meeting that that satisfied that requirement. 00:00:54
Umm. 00:01:00
The way that I understand it from the city manager. 00:01:01
Is that we? 00:01:04
It. 00:01:06
There has to be a notification of your specific location and posted on site. 00:01:07
And I'm sorry, still learning about this process because it is new so. 00:01:13
We welcome you to stay at the meeting but just not be a voting member. 00:01:18
OK. 00:01:23
OK. Thank you. 00:01:25
OK. So I will take A roll call now. 00:01:27
Chair Boyle. 00:01:31
Here. 00:01:33
Vice Chair Eldridge here. 00:01:33
Member Brooks. 00:01:36
And Secretary Sutfin. 00:01:38
OK, and then Member Bornstein is here, but. 00:01:41
It was not publicly noticed, so she will be listening but not participating. Thank you. 00:01:46
Thank you. And item number two, approval of the agenda. 00:01:53
I'm assuming everybody's had a chance to look at the agenda if we can get a. 00:02:00
Motion to Approve. 00:02:06
I can do that motion to approve the agenda. 00:02:09
And we need a second. 00:02:13
I'll second that. 00:02:16
Great. We have a motion And a second, Can we have a roll call vote please? 00:02:18
Yes. 00:02:24
Secretary 7. 00:02:26
Yes, Vice Chair Eldridge. 00:02:27
Yes, member Brooks. 00:02:30
Yes, and chair Boyle. 00:02:31
Yes. 00:02:33
Motion has been passed for 2021. 00:02:34
Thank you. 00:02:39
Moving right along to item number three, board and staff announcements, city related items only. Does anybody on the board have 00:02:40
any? 00:02:45
Any announcements? 00:02:52
No. 00:02:55
Staff, do we have any announcements? No, we do not. OK, we can close that. And item four, our council liaison announcements. I see 00:02:57
miss back here. 00:03:03
Hi Chair Boyle and members of the ARB. The only thing I have coming up on our July 19th City Council meeting will be regarding 00:03:10
Accessory Dwelling Units that will be brought before by the Community Development Director. There has been some changes. 00:03:18
State changes that went into effect January 1, 2023. So we want to stay updated on that. And they're looking to amend the 00:03:27
municipal code for that chapter. So I will bring you more information at your next meeting, unless you're tuned into our 719 00:03:34
meeting. Have a great meeting. Thank you. 00:03:40
Thank you. 00:03:46
And the next item is item five, general public comment. 00:03:51
Umm. 00:03:56
General public comment deals with matters. 00:03:58
Subject to the jurisdiction of the city and the ARB. 00:04:03
That are not on our regular agenda, so please if you would like to. 00:04:07
Speak you. 00:04:13
If you are in person, you're welcome to come up to the dais. 00:04:15
We'll give each person 3 minutes. 00:04:19
And. 00:04:24
Virtual hands can be raised now as well, and I see we have two. 00:04:25
We have Miss Jane Haynes. 00:04:34
Can you hear me? 00:04:40
Yes. 00:04:41
Thank you. 00:04:42
Umm. 00:04:43
I am. 00:04:45
Very concerned that staff mistakenly failed to inform you. 00:04:46
Before your or during your vote on the Pat Hathaway Remodel. 00:04:52
That. 00:04:58
That a historic home like that requires a phase two. 00:05:01
Report. 00:05:06
And so I realized I. 00:05:07
You're able to resend your vote. 00:05:10
But I realize it's not on today recession. It's not on today's agenda. 00:05:13
So what I'm requesting is that. 00:05:18
You request staff to place this on your next agenda. I believe that's July the 26th. 00:05:22
So that you can get a corrected. 00:05:29
Our report informing you what the phase two requirement is. 00:05:32
So that is my public comment. I I hope that. 00:05:38
Staff will agendize this because. 00:05:43
I happened to be writing a historic novel about Pacific Grove in 1906 and. 00:05:48
Probably my most valuable source are the photographs Pat Hathaway photographs, and I think that's true for probably. 00:05:55
Anyone attempting some historic study? 00:06:03
So I strongly urge you to put rescission on the next scheduled meeting agenda. 00:06:08
Thank you. 00:06:17
Thank you. 00:06:18
Now we have Miss Lisa Gianni. 00:06:23
Thank you. 00:06:27
It took a long time to figure out everything that went wrong with the ARB's decision to approve. 00:06:28
The permit for a major remodel staff swords of Pat Hathaway's family home and workplace, and to figure out what can be done to 00:06:34
undo the wrong decision that will otherwise result in the loss of an important historic resource for the community, both 00:06:40
architecturally and due to the historic person well known in the community who lived there and provided us with amazing views of 00:06:46
our heritage. 00:06:52
Please rescind your decision. 00:06:59
At the decision you made at the last meeting to approve a major remodel without regard to the Secretary of the Interior standards 00:07:02
the Cities Boards and Commissions Handbook provides, the parliamentary procedures of our committee shall be guided by Roberts 00:07:08
Rules of Order, which described the motion to rescind a decision in section 35 of the 12th edition. You were not guided 00:07:14
appropriately by staff. 00:07:20
As I described in detail in my letter today, three major points in the phase one report were disregarded. 00:07:26
First, the property retains good integrity despite additions in the rear. 00:07:33
Second, the property qualifies for listing on the HRI. 00:07:38
3rd of phase one report with the finding of eligibility for listing on the Historic Resources Inventory, such as the one for 960 00:07:43
Bayview triggers a phase two report, but that didn't happen. 00:07:49
Consequently, the project was approved without regard to the Secretary of Interior Standards and analysis that would have been 00:07:56
made in the phase two report. Also, the permit does not provide any more than inadvertent discovery conditions of approval, 00:08:02
despite a phase two report which indicates the phase two archaeological report which indicates the presence of archaeological and 00:08:08
or tribal resources. 00:08:14
Please do not let the misguided approval stand. It was not based in fact. Any of you who voted, were eligible or were eligible to 00:08:21
vote can make a motion to rescind the vote on the project, presumably. 00:08:27
I don't know whether it has to be agendized next time. My reading of Roberts Rules of Order is that. 00:08:35
Yeah, you can do it at any time. 00:08:42
With or without prior notice. 00:08:45
Umm. 00:08:47
I appreciate the work you do as a volunteer board. I hope you will work with HRC to make the review process for buildings 00:08:48
potentially eligible for the HR. I clear, consistent and protective of PG's heritage. Thank you. 00:08:55
Thank you. 00:09:04
And then we have Miss Dixie Lane. 00:09:07
Good afternoon. 00:09:13
I am going to leave the conversation about. 00:09:15
What can happen about the recension of of, of the decision, et cetera to those that are more knowledgeable? 00:09:21
What I did want to point out, as I did to Council. 00:09:28
Umm. 00:09:32
Last week. 00:09:33
Was that Pat the historic value of Pat Hathaway's home? 00:09:34
Goes far beyond. 00:09:40
His having been raised there and and lived there and had his collection there, which in fact he did. 00:09:43
Um. 00:09:50
It also, his family has a generational. 00:09:51
History with Pacific Grove. 00:09:57
His father. 00:09:59
When they lived there, when Pat was growing up, was the deputy commander of Fort Ord. 00:10:01
His grandmother, who was raised there, used to tell stories of when she lived in that home. And there was. There was no La Porte 00:10:07
mansion. There were no other homes around. It was they were surrounded by a dairy farm. 00:10:14
And his great. 00:10:22
Ohh his aunt. Polly's husband was E Cook Smith. 00:10:24
Who was the namesake for the bank he or owned which was on the corner of Chase? I mean, it was in the Chase building on the corner 00:10:28
of Forest and Lighthouse. 00:10:33
And his great grandfather was Lieutenant Charles Emery, and he was stationed at the Presidio of Monterey and was one of the white 00:10:39
officers in charge of the Company of Buffalo Soldiers. 00:10:46
Back in the day, he and it and. 00:10:53
His history in this community goes on and on and on and on, and much of it took place when that family was living in that home. 00:10:56
So. 00:11:03
It's kind of one of those. 00:11:05
Regardless of architecturally, if it is perfection, it is one of those places kind of like George Washington slept here or. 00:11:08
You know. 00:11:17
This is where. 00:11:18
You know Abraham Lincoln lived or something in this log cabin. 00:11:20
It is. 00:11:23
A home that was. 00:11:25
Is storied in our history here very deeply, as is his family, so I hope, if nothing else, that we can put aside. 00:11:27
Whatever decisions that have been made when we didn't have complete and full information I sent to the ARB. 00:11:37
Not long ago, the same documents that I sent to. 00:11:44
Council last week, which includes the the declaration I made to the Superior Court here in Monterey that kept that was 00:11:49
instrumental in keeping Pat's collection for being broken up and sold off and disseminated. The judge read the whole and looked at 00:11:56
the whole and and changed her decision from allowing that to happen to saying no, that this is this is not what Pat wanted and all 00:12:02
that information. 00:12:09
I sent to you and I hope that you'll take the time to look at it, review it, read it and understand. 00:12:16
Historical significance of that home and the Hathaway family. Thank you. 00:12:22
Thank you for that. 00:12:28
We have Gray Grubbins. 00:12:33
Yes, we have the city attorney here. 00:12:35
Sorry, babe. 00:12:50
I was muted. Can you hear me now? 00:12:51
Yes, thank you. 00:12:53
Yeah, I was asked by staff to attend the meeting. 00:12:55
Umm. 00:12:59
Remember, this item is public comment. You cannot take any action on any item under public comment. You can. This is designed to 00:13:00
allow the public to provide information to you. 00:13:05
At the about matters that are not on the agenda. 00:13:11
I did want to add though that. 00:13:15
Since this the issue that's being discussed. 00:13:18
Is a. 00:13:21
Final decision, the time to appeal and the time for review has passed. 00:13:22
It's not appropriate. 00:13:27
Or a motion to rescind because the decision is final. 00:13:29
And. 00:13:33
That that's just something I wanted to make sure the Commission was aware of that. 00:13:34
Motion to rescind is inappropriate where there's a final decision and the the property rights of the owner. 00:13:40
Are in play here and they have. They have a right to have a finality of their decision. 00:13:45
Like this is a Scott Brooks. 00:13:54
A quick question follow up. 00:13:57
Point what? While we have you there, could you help me understand then when a? 00:14:00
Motion to rescind would be appropriate. I'm trying to understand this the. 00:14:06
Point of of when it is final, you know my opinion is it's not final, it's not appropriate after the the appeal period is run. 00:14:11
Because that's when the vested rights attached for the property owner. 00:14:21
OK, so once the appeal opinion? 00:14:26
The appeal period is over and and what is the appeal period? It's 10 days from your decision. 00:14:29
In Pacific, Grove also has a review that could happen at. 00:14:36
The Planning Commission level of your decision, which is the reviewing body of of. 00:14:40
Of your body. 00:14:45
And that would be. 00:14:46
They have 21 days to to make that type of a decision. 00:14:49
And I I mean, I I'm not even sure motion to rescind is appropriate under this scenario, but I don't see how it could be legal 00:14:54
after. 00:14:58
The appeal period is run. 00:15:02
In the only option after the appeal period is run. 00:15:05
Is for the Commission to. 00:15:10
Ohh up. 00:15:12
And the appeal of period is the, is the. 00:15:13
Any member of the public can ask the Planning Commission to appeal it. 00:15:18
So once your decision is made, it's a final decision under our municipal code. 00:15:21
And just so, but practically then. 00:15:26
No one on the ARB really would ever be able to make. 00:15:29
A motion to rescind outside of the. 00:15:33
Meeting. 00:15:36
When the the motion was. 00:15:37
Made because we obviously don't meet within 10 days. 00:15:39
Right, Yeah, there is entering the meeting. There is something called the motion for reconsideration and that could be made at the 00:15:43
same meeting. 00:15:47
Right. But I I guess my point then is it seems then that. 00:15:52
The motion to rescind, then, is for all intensive purposes. 00:15:56
In applicable if, if. If. 00:16:01
If I if no one on the board. 00:16:03
Couldn't make a motion to rescind. 00:16:06
Within 10 days. 00:16:09
Then and you can't make a motion to ascend at the meeting because it would be a motion to be there would be you know if there if 00:16:11
for some reason hypothetically and I I don't want to drift into. 00:16:15
The merits, I appreciate that, but hypothetically you know during that 10 day period, you know a special meeting could be called 00:16:20
and got it. So we felt there was an error of some kind that was significant. 00:16:26
That would be how it would happen, if it could happen at all. 00:16:33
Very good. Thank you. 00:16:37
Thank you for that clarification. 00:16:40
Do we have any members of the public that care to speak? 00:16:52
No. 00:16:57
OK, I believe we're done with public comment. 00:16:59
Yes. 00:17:03
Seeing no more hands raised, we'll go ahead and close public comment. 00:17:04
And we will go over to the consent agenda. 00:17:11
Are there any members of the board that would like to pull anything from the consent agenda? 00:17:15
And chair, can I just make a point that these are draft minutes? 00:17:23
That you're looking at these, these are draft. I just want to make sure that that's clear. 00:17:28
Thanks. 00:17:34
Nobody on the board wants to pull anything from the consent agenda. 00:17:42
OK. Would any members of the public care to pull anything from the consent agenda? 00:17:46
See. No hands raised. Thank you. 00:18:00
Seeing none we can. 00:18:02
Umm. 00:18:05
Entertain a motion. 00:18:06
So moved. 00:18:10
And can we get a second? 00:18:12
I'll second that. 00:18:14
Great. We have a motion and a second. Can we get a roll call vote please? Yes, member Brooks. 00:18:16
Aye, Vice Chair Eldridge. 00:18:23
Aye, chair Boyle. 00:18:26
And Secretary Sutfin. 00:18:28
Motion passes by the board with a vote of 420 to 1:00. Thank you. 00:18:30
Going on to public hearings, we are on item 8A, Architectural permit and tree permit with development #23-0007. 00:18:38
For property at. 00:18:49
1015 Hillside Ave. 00:18:51
Do we have a staff report? 00:18:55
Yes, we do. 00:18:57
Good afternoon, chair board members and members of the public. 00:19:01
I'm Laurel O'halloran, the project planner for architectural permit and tree permit with development #23-0007. 00:19:05
For a property located at 1015 Hillside Ave. 00:19:13
The subject property is located West of Patterson Lane and is zoned R1 single family residence. 00:19:17
The 4500 square foot lot is currently vacant as a tree destroyed A1 story single family home on the property in 2018. 00:19:23
A water meter does remain on the property. 00:19:31
The applicant proposes to construct A2 story single family home. 00:19:33
Containing approximately 2099 square feet with an attached single car garage. 00:19:38
The applicant also proposes to install a 20 foot concrete driveway for access to the attached garage. 00:19:44
And a second story deck above the garage and a third story balcony on the front facade. 00:19:50
Because of the slope of the property, the front entrance to the home is on the 2nd floor and a staircase is proposed to provide 00:19:55
access to the home from the street. 00:19:58
In addition to the interior access from the garage. 00:20:03
Standards of the R1 zoning district have been met, including building coverage, floor area setbacks and building height. 00:20:06
Staff recommends the IRB approved the architectural permit entry permit with development subject to the recommended findings, 00:20:14
conditions of approval. 00:20:17
And a section. 00:20:22
Class 3 New construction category exemption under Sequa. 00:20:23
This concludes my staff report and. 00:20:26
The architect is here if you have. 00:20:30
Any questions also? Thanks. 00:20:32
Thank you. If we can hear from the. 00:20:36
Architect or Building Designer? 00:20:39
Derek Johnson. 00:20:57
Yes, thank you. 00:20:58
Yes. 00:21:02
I just want to say that. 00:21:03
The owner has. 00:21:07
Been trying to. 00:21:09
Figure out a way to rebuild her home. 00:21:11
And. 00:21:14
Through the last few years, she did get a. 00:21:15
Approval, Planning. Approval. 00:21:19
Uh. 00:21:22
It might have been. 00:21:23
Three years ago. 00:21:24
Umm. 00:21:26
But it. 00:21:27
The home. 00:21:27
When she went to. 00:21:29
Get cost to build it. 00:21:30
She felt that. 00:21:33
She needed more. 00:21:35
Space. 00:21:37
And so she. 00:21:38
Prepared a She asked for adding another floor to the property. 00:21:40
The drawings you have up are for the previous approval. 00:21:44
OK. 00:21:51
So. 00:21:55
Yes, he is. 00:21:58
That's where you. 00:22:01
Do you want me to share my screen or can you find it, you think? 00:22:08
Umm. 00:22:13
Hold that thought for just a second. We're going through our. 00:22:14
Pages. 00:22:17
I know, I'm just asking my office assistant to. 00:22:40
Upload them on the flash drive. 00:22:43
There's the approved 2020 plans, and then there's the proposed 2023 plans. 00:22:48
In your packet. 00:22:53
OK. 00:23:11
So what Laurel had up there, what we're looking at here is that. 00:23:14
But we do have. 00:23:20
I see. 00:23:22
OK, we're working currently on getting the. 00:23:27
The new plans? 00:23:32
I believe dated. 00:23:34
11/28/2022. 00:23:36
Up and online so that we can have our viewers at home. 00:23:39
See the? 00:23:44
The plans while we have the discussion, so we'll just. 00:23:45
Take a quick pause until we get that. 00:23:49
And. 00:23:53
Thank you for your continued patience. We're getting very close. 00:26:37
All right. 00:26:58
Well, Mr. Johnson, are you still with us? 00:27:00
Yes. 00:27:03
Great. So if we we can have you continue your. 00:27:05
Testimony we would. 00:27:09
Love that. 00:27:10
Yes, so. 00:27:12
That previous set that was shown, that was approved. 00:27:13
A few years ago. 00:27:16
And. 00:27:18
The owner had. 00:27:21
Decided. 00:27:22
That after going through the costs of rebuilding that home. 00:27:24
It wasn't going to be cost effective and she needed the extra space and so. 00:27:28
She asked that we went back and provided A. 00:27:34
2nd floor to the property. 00:27:37
To provide additional space. 00:27:40
The reason we had to go with the 2nd floor was because the property. 00:27:43
Shape and the trees and the size of it did not allow for. 00:27:48
Development of just the single story. 00:27:53
And so. 00:27:56
The structure is designed around. 00:27:58
The trees that. 00:28:01
Are able to be saved? Yes, we did have to. 00:28:02
Proposed to remove. 00:28:06
1. 00:28:09
To like. 00:28:10
I don't remember exactly the number of trees, 4 trees. 00:28:12
To be removed. 00:28:17
But. 00:28:20
We did our best to keep around. 00:28:21
The other trees. 00:28:24
Yes. 00:28:25
We meet. 00:28:27
All the. 00:28:28
Setback requirements, height requirements and everything of the city. 00:28:29
Zoning. 00:28:34
And that's. 00:28:37
That's kind of all we we try to keep it in the same. 00:28:38
Style that she. 00:28:42
Liked in the original design. 00:28:44
And we try to keep it as low as possible. 00:28:47
And that's where we went with the parapet roof. 00:28:49
To allow for the height. 00:28:53
To. 00:28:55
Keep the view shared of any possible neighbors or. 00:28:57
Area. 00:29:01
Around it. 00:29:02
Thank you. 00:29:03
OK, great. 00:29:06
We will probably call you back with some questions, but at this time I'm going to open it up for public comment and then we'll. 00:29:10
Bring it back to the board and. 00:29:19
Probably ask you some more questions. 00:29:24
So yes, please. 00:29:28
Pardon. 00:29:39
There's a little button down at the bottom. There you go. OK, now we can hear you Chair Boyle and other board members. 00:29:41
Thank you for the opportunity to come here today and provide some comments on this project. My name is Rob Oglesby. 00:29:49
I live at 1009 Hillside Ave. which is 1 house away from the proposed project. 00:29:54
And I come here today to oppose the design of this design of the project. 00:30:00
And note that at least. 00:30:06
From my perspective it doesn't comply with the Cities Architect architectural guidelines. 00:30:08
For single family residences, the proposed project is unique. It does not conform to the neighborhoods architectural style style. 00:30:14
Excuse me. 00:30:18
Design and scale. 00:30:23
It was observed that the project conforms to existing properties in the area because of the neighborhood already has a variety of 00:30:25
styles. 00:30:29
And materials and pitched and flat roofs and decks, however, under the guidelines. 00:30:33
Existing variety alone. 00:30:37
Is not enough. 00:30:40
Guideline #1 says the mass and the height. The new building should blend well with neighboring structures. 00:30:41
And not overwhelm them with disproportionate size or design. 00:30:47
That is out of character guideline #24. 00:30:50
States the new structure should appear similar in scale to those seen as traditional in the neighborhood. 00:30:54
And guideline #27 says a building should be in scale with its site. 00:31:00
There are no examples of similar architecture that that match the proposed project. 00:31:05
Uh. 00:31:11
It has kind of a ultra modern. 00:31:12
Rectangular, modular. 00:31:15
Design that looks more like multifamily to me than a single family house. 00:31:17
The size of the house. 00:31:22
Is disproportionate in my view to the size of the lot. It's a 4500 square foot lot, it's over 2000 square foot. 00:31:24
House is about as much house as you could. 00:31:31
Quit and cram into that space. 00:31:33
And that has consequences on the neighboring properties and the look of the neighborhood. 00:31:36
Umm. 00:31:41
I notice also that the placement of the. 00:31:42
The house, which is essentially a cube on the forward part of the lot. 00:31:46
With a garage, that kind of in effect becomes a third story. 00:31:52
Puts it even more into your face as you go down the street. I'm I'm grateful that the netting Story pools Netting was installed 00:31:57
and that helped. 00:32:00
We appreciate the impact of that on the street, on the streetscape. 00:32:04
And. 00:32:10
I'll I'll flag it, but I think others are going to raise this issue. But clearly some of the privacy and light issues that affect 00:32:12
the neighboring properties are something that should be given some attention. So with that, I thank you for this opportunity to 00:32:18
give comments and hope you consider my input. 00:32:24
Thank you. 00:32:31
These. 00:32:38
My name is Jeff NAACP. I live at. 00:32:43
1018 Benito Ave. which is behind the property. 00:32:46
Just. 00:32:51
For future reference, the posting on it says two-story. 00:32:53
When you go into the plans, it becomes a three story, so it's kind of deceiving if a person just walks by and reads that. 00:32:58
To get the proper information. 00:33:05
Umm. 00:33:07
For me, being behind it, I would. 00:33:09
Prefer it to be lower. 00:33:12
OK. 00:33:13
But I don't have a definite opinion on that. 00:33:15
There is one concern that I have. 00:33:18
At the rear of the property there's a 45 inch Monterey pine. 00:33:20
And off of that Monterey Pine is a 16 inch offshoot. 00:33:24
That severely leans. 00:33:28
In fact, it goes over the top of the house that's behind me. 00:33:31
And it's starting to lean on our oak tree that comes from my property. 00:33:34
So if I could have that considered. 00:33:39
And part of the the issues with the trees, I think that would be something that needs to be looked at. 00:33:42
OK. 00:33:50
I'm sorry, just considered how considered in in terms of removal, I think, yeah, I think it's going to be a safety hazard. 00:33:51
So in terms of removal, I think the arborist you know probably needs to take a look at that. 00:33:57
And as severe as that. 00:34:02
Tree. 00:34:04
Is leaning over. I mean the Monterey pine goes straight up. 00:34:05
The 16 inch shoot goes up and way over and it's continuing to lean more. 00:34:09
And eventually. 00:34:15
Uh, there could be a problem with that coming down on top of the other house. 00:34:16
And continuing to lean on branches of the oak tree. 00:34:20
Which saying could cause problems with that oak tree. 00:34:24
OK, so those are my concerns on the trees. 00:34:27
Great. OK. OK. Thank you very much. 00:34:29
We have Deborah Ternullo's hands raised. 00:34:40
Great. Thank you. 00:34:45
Hello. 00:34:49
Thank you for listening to me. I am Deborah Tumulo. I live at 10. 00:34:51
13 Hillside Ave. which is directly next door. 00:34:56
I mark, I want to thank Mr. Oglesby for his comments. I agree with him 100%. 00:35:00
My issue is the house is so tall. 00:35:07
That. 00:35:10
I have completely lost any vision out my windows the. 00:35:11
3rd floor balcony is right next to my deck. 00:35:16
I have a privacy issue there. 00:35:19
They can look in my kitchen door. 00:35:21
Across my kitchen and out onto my. 00:35:24
Other deck on the other side of my house, and it's just huge. It's overwhelming. 00:35:26
I also own the house at 10:17 and I feel like. 00:35:33
That house is gonna get blocked. It's it's going to get no more sun in the morning. I have an A a worry about mold and mildew. 00:35:36
It's just. 00:35:46
Unfunctional in this neighborhood? It's it's if you look at the picture that's on the screen, look at how tall it is, and look at 00:35:48
the two houses on each side. 00:35:52
It's it's not working for me. 00:35:58
Umm. 00:36:04
I don't know what else to say I it's just it just doesn't work for me. 00:36:05
I I see problems in the future with noise and. 00:36:10
Being so close together is to even if the house was pushed back somewhere, it might be better, but it's so forward and in our 00:36:15
face. 00:36:18
That that's really all I have to say. I I, I, I I wish you would not approve it. 00:36:26
Thank you. 00:36:32
Thank you. 00:36:33
See no other hands raised. OK. I think we will go ahead and close public comment and bring it back to the board for discussion. 00:36:48
Does anybody care to? 00:36:52
Start. 00:36:59
I'd like to. 00:37:02
Ask a couple questions of the designer. 00:37:03
I'm. 00:37:08
I'm looking through all the different. 00:37:09
Exterior elevations and I'm trying to find. 00:37:11
Anything that demonstrates? 00:37:15
How this? 00:37:19
Proposed design complies with the height limit. 00:37:20
Umm. 00:37:23
I'm not saying it necessarily doesn't, but. 00:37:25
It's certainly quite tall and. 00:37:28
As a practicing architect, I always try to. 00:37:33
Make it clear in my elevations. 00:37:37
That I'm under the height limit by. 00:37:40
Essentially raising the. 00:37:43
Exist the line of the existing grade up to whatever that limit is, and demonstrating that my proposed design is under that line. I 00:37:46
don't see any particular indication about. 00:37:52
Height limit compliance. 00:38:00
And. 00:38:02
I think that that the onus is on the applicant to make sure that it's clear to anyone reviewing the drawings that that they are 00:38:05
compliant with the height limit. I I believe it's a 25 foot height limit. Is that correct Laurel? 00:38:11
That is correct. Yeah. OK. 00:38:17
Whether it is or not, is, is, is. It's just hard to see looking at these drawings and. 00:38:22
That's a concern to me. 00:38:29
I can interject Hunter, I see it on the project data sheet it's 24 feet 8 inches and so and I that's that's fine. But with that 00:38:31
that's not showing me graphically on the elevations, that's just a number that you know it can be written down but it doesn't 00:38:37
necessarily mean that it's accurate. 00:38:43
I'm looking for something that I can scale off the drawings that shows that clearly. And I mean anybody can write a number down on 00:38:52
a project Datasheet. I want to see a scaled. 00:38:57
Dimension. 00:39:02
Showing that. 00:39:05
On everywhere on this building, it's underneath the height limit and and. 00:39:06
Clearly it's tall. There's no two ways about it when you look at the Street View and and how this building relates to the 00:39:11
neighbors. 00:39:14
I understand their concerns. It this is. 00:39:21
A Really. 00:39:23
Big house for this lot. 00:39:25
I don't know if any. 00:39:30
Else notice this but. 00:39:30
I was trying. 00:39:33
Find. 00:39:34
The. 00:39:34
Staff report. 00:39:35
That's. 00:39:41
Sorry. 00:39:41
Umm. 00:39:42
That it sounded like the that the driveway was 20 something feet. 00:39:43
But then I'm seeing that the. 00:39:49
Set back. 00:39:52
Ohh garage doors. Head back OK. I see it OK. 00:39:57
Never mind. 00:40:01
Umm. 00:40:04
I had a I had some concerns about the sides of the building just being so straight up and not having any sort of undulating. 00:40:08
Ins and outs. It just is going to make it seem. 00:40:17
That much? 00:40:20
Bigger. 00:40:22
I don't know. 00:40:25
Anybody else felt that? 00:40:26
I I agree that, I mean it's not really articulated it's it's a big box and that's. 00:40:29
Yeah, they I think the the designer mentioned. 00:40:35
An attempt to. 00:40:40
You know, preserve views for the neighbors, but. 00:40:42
To me, this type of a design is. 00:40:46
Being a big cube like this. 00:40:50
It's not. 00:40:53
It's not really pushing and pulling and coming in and out and and and providing for any sight lines around it. It's just it's just 00:40:56
a big box and that that that. 00:41:00
Concerns me. 00:41:05
Along with the scale with the neighbors. 00:41:08
And the privacy issue that I I believe one of the the women the the neighbors that spoke and. 00:41:10
The deck that looks into her deck that. 00:41:16
That's all. 00:41:19
Well, unfortunate. 00:41:22
I can speak up. 00:41:25
Umm. 00:41:27
I got sidelined, as we did earlier in the meeting with the old. 00:41:28
House design and then drove by it this weekend and then got myself. 00:41:32
Back on the the current home design and my first reaction was, I'm sorry the the first home design. 00:41:37
Wasn't built the ones that ARB apparently approved a few years ago? 00:41:43
This current home feels more. 00:41:48
Like a home for Los Angeles area and it's not matching the home styles in our guidelines. 00:41:51
Beyond light I. 00:41:58
The guidelines you feel it's going against your guideline 323534. 00:41:59
Which is in relation to a hunter is saying in relation to the homes around it. 00:42:05
So I would love to see. 00:42:10
It brought down in proportion, it's. 00:42:12
It's very overwhelming to me both. 00:42:14
Here on the page, as well as driving by and seeing the story polls. 00:42:17
Thank. 00:42:23
I I I agree with with all of the. 00:42:27
My colleagues comments so far you know I'm I'm certainly. 00:42:30
I'm always hesitant to encroach on. 00:42:36
Of property owners. 00:42:39
Style and and decision particularly obviously with within our, with within the. 00:42:41
The code and requirements. 00:42:47
But I do concur that this House does seem to be. 00:42:50
Rather glaringly. 00:42:56
Rubbing against the grain with with some of our guidelines, some of which have already been mentioned 1224 as well. 00:43:01
For me particularly. 00:43:08
It is simply just the design I I, I personally kind of. 00:43:11
Enjoy a a modern look, but in driving around this neighborhood, which I did fairly extensively, I I wasn't able to see. 00:43:14
One single example of. 00:43:21
Umm. 00:43:24
Of any sort of modern looking home like this and so. 00:43:25
That. 00:43:29
Seem to me. 00:43:30
Problematic. 00:43:31
And I can certainly appreciate the neighbours. 00:43:33
Concern. 00:43:36
With. 00:43:39
With this design. 00:43:41
Being built here so. 00:43:42
I thought that was. 00:43:46
Fairly problematic in my view. I I do wanted to say I appreciate the. 00:43:47
The. 00:43:53
Desire and design to try to avoid as as much as possible. 00:43:55
It's a bit of a catch 22, but avoid as much as possible the removal of as many trees and I think they did a. 00:44:01
A fairly good job. 00:44:08
Umm. 00:44:10
But yeah, the the design and scale and mass is. 00:44:12
Just striking and and and. 00:44:17
Problematic here. 00:44:20
I'd like to make a just a couple more comments. I'm just going to read verbatim the first couple sentences out of the design 00:44:24
guidelines. 00:44:29
Architectural Style and design Diverse architectural styles lie at the heart of Pacific grows distinctive character. Stately Queen 00:44:35
Anne homes exist with Spanish tutor Prairie and a variety of other historic and modern architectural styles. 00:44:41
Modern architectural styles. 00:44:48
I don't take issue with the fact that this is a modern design at all. 00:44:50
With all respect, Scott. 00:44:56
And Del Monte Park is a is kind of a hodgepodge of a lot of different styles of homes. It's it we're not in the historic retreat 00:44:58
here. We're in it kind of a an area that I I. 00:45:03
Can support. 00:45:07
Everybody's tastes and. 00:45:09
I'm not here to be the arbiter of taste it. It's. 00:45:11
If the owner wants to design A modern home. 00:45:15
That's fine. I think the home needs to be designed. 00:45:18
In scale with the surrounding neighborhood. 00:45:22
Umm. 00:45:25
And that's my biggest issue. And as I look at the Street View, it's it's quite apparent that this thing's towering over the 00:45:26
neighbors. 00:45:30
And that's my big concern and I think it could be, I think it can be resolved, but it, you know, it is effectively a three story 00:45:34
home it is. 00:45:38
Pushing the height limits. 00:45:43
And it just looks primarily my issue with it is it's a little out of scale. 00:45:46
I think that was really eloquently said. Thank you, I agree wholeheartedly. I think I can appreciate the design. 00:45:53
Aesthetic for sure. I just feel like it is. It's too massive. 00:46:02
Umm. 00:46:07
In height and. 00:46:08
Kind of. 00:46:10
Girth. 00:46:11
Umm. 00:46:14
We can We can either chat with the building designer or we can entertain a motion. 00:46:18
We can. 00:46:26
Ohh okay. Yes. We would love to hear from you Derek. 00:46:34
Hello. 00:46:41
Aye. 00:46:42
Can I share my screen real quick? This is just a Google. 00:46:43
Image of the. 00:46:48
Street. 00:46:50
I'm not sure that we can do that because I don't know if you share your screen, if our viewers at home would be able to see it. So 00:46:52
let's. 00:46:56
Hold. Hold tight for just a second. 00:47:01
Did you just. If he just wanted to pull up Google Maps, I can do that, yeah, if you could pull up Google Earth and go to. 00:47:12
The address. 00:47:19
And go to Street View. 00:47:21
So yeah, as you can see in that picture, I mean. 00:47:37
Right there. 00:47:40
The existing house. 00:47:41
Is the little. 00:47:42
Red House that the tree fell on. 00:47:43
And. 00:47:46
There was no garage. 00:47:47
At the previous property. 00:47:49
The city guidelines required that we added a garage. 00:47:51
Umm. 00:47:55
The minute we go out of garage and try to rebuild the house in the same location. 00:47:56
All of a sudden. 00:48:01
We're pushing back and we're getting into those two trees that the neighbor. 00:48:03
Had mentioned or falling towards their property. 00:48:07
Which we'll talk to the arborist about removing. 00:48:10
Umm. 00:48:13
And. 00:48:15
You'll see. 00:48:16
The house to the right. 00:48:17
Which I believe is 117 is. 00:48:18
Overpowering this existing house. 00:48:23
And the house to the left which is 119, which is also. 00:48:26
Extremely large compared to this House. 00:48:32
The proposed houses maybe? 00:48:34
2 feet. 00:48:37
At the most higher than either one of those Ridge lines. 00:48:38
And it is set back. 00:48:42
Quite a ways. 00:48:44
The property runs. 00:48:46
Kind of north to South in a sense. 00:48:48
To where? The southern sun running over it, you know. Yeah, there's portions of the day that. 00:48:52
Somebody's going to get a little shade from. 00:48:59
The property but. 00:49:02
Umm. 00:49:04
It's no worse than what. 00:49:05
Any of the other trees or anything else too in the neighborhood? 00:49:07
To, you know, shade anything, it's it's not. 00:49:11
In my opinion, it's not. 00:49:16
Overwhelming relative to the two neighbouring houses which the neighbor had mentioned or houses. 00:49:18
Have having a. 00:49:25
This house becoming so much larger, the house is pushed back. 00:49:27
Umm. 00:49:31
Away from the street because you have that. 00:49:32
20 foot setback. 00:49:34
The house is set back behind the front of the garage. 00:49:36
It's not. 00:49:40
It's not right up on there, that's. 00:49:41
You know, that's it. That's all little misguiding. 00:49:45
Umm. 00:49:49
So. 00:49:51
The front of the house is basically if you look at the. 00:49:53
A 2.2 sheet 16 feet behind the front of the garage. 00:49:57
And so. 00:50:03
I mean that's. 00:50:05
You know. 00:50:07
32 feet if we had a 20 foot to the front. 00:50:08
Of the garage. 00:50:12
To where that back corner is. 00:50:14
Next to. 00:50:16
One ninth or 117? 00:50:18
Which is kind of the house on the right. 00:50:21
And you can see the house on the left is pushed much further forward than that. 00:50:24
As it appears in this image here. 00:50:28
And that Stairway and deck is? 00:50:31
Like almost right on top of this property, so. 00:50:34
The fact that this neighbor has these two houses. 00:50:38
Crammed right onto her property. 00:50:41
It it? Kind of. 00:50:45
Miss. 00:50:46
Guides this. 00:50:47
This. 00:50:49
Property. I mean, this property is much narrower, so you're kind of stuck with a different style. I can't. We can't design A 00:50:51
house. 00:50:54
Similar to the one on the left or the one on the right without. 00:50:58
Umm. 00:51:02
Really. 00:51:04
Overpowering them. I mean, if we did a design like either one of those houses, it would. 00:51:05
It would be massive and we would be looking completely in those houses. 00:51:11
So. 00:51:16
I feel you know with the time we've spent working with the owner and working with the property. 00:51:17
Trying to get something to fit in a 59 foot wide lot. 00:51:23
That is. 00:51:27
Something that she's. 00:51:29
Able to. 00:51:30
Provide a budget to build and. 00:51:33
Live in. 00:51:35
I just feel it. It is the most. 00:51:36
Reasonable style home to put on that property. 00:51:39
Thank you. 00:51:46
Great. Thank you. And I don't think any of us are doubting this style of the home. I think what we're more. 00:51:48
Concerned about is the. 00:51:55
The General Massing I appreciate the undulation of the. 00:51:57
Of the street side. 00:52:03
You know, relief. 00:52:05
Where you. 00:52:07
You know, got a 20 foot set back to the garage and then an additional setback to the lower level and then. 00:52:09
An additional. 00:52:16
Set back to the main second story, I think this my concern is where the sides of the buildings. I just worry that it's going to 00:52:18
feel like it just goes straight up right on the. 00:52:24
You know, 5 foot. 00:52:31
Property line I don't know. That's just my. 00:52:34
Concern to the House on the right. 00:52:37
I mean there's. 00:52:40
There's nothing different with that brown house on the right. 00:52:41
Hmm. 00:52:46
One thing that seems a bit different about the design that you're proposing is the. 00:52:51
The the flat parapet roof as opposed to the more traditional Gable roof that. 00:52:58
With a more central Ridge, it gives. 00:53:06
Some. 00:53:08
Relief to this at least. 00:53:11
Near the side yards. 00:53:14
There's a little bit more. 00:53:16
Open space. 00:53:18
That you're when you're looking up at the sky. 00:53:20
Whereas these parapet roofs. 00:53:22
And I'm I realize I'm I'm looking at 2 dimensional drawings and and and that. 00:53:26
It's more of an l-shaped plan, but it it really. 00:53:31
There's kind of this unbroken line at at. 00:53:38
When you're looking at it from hillside, the the Street View. 00:53:41
Pushing up right at the height limit and and it's not from one side, from one set back to the other, it's just. 00:53:46
Pushing the height limit all the way across. 00:53:53
You have the little element of a standing seam roof. 00:53:56
That little. 00:54:01
That element helps, but it's. 00:54:02
A little more of that I think would be helpful it I. 00:54:06
Assuming you can pull that off and still allow the second story to have enough ceiling heights. 00:54:10
Sufficient ceiling height, I I believe you can do that and looking at this I think you you can pull that off. 00:54:17
Umm. 00:54:23
That now if you if you look at these. 00:54:28
Trees right here, this pine tree. 00:54:31
And that oak tree that's behind the existing house? 00:54:33
And then you were to look at the proposed site plan? 00:54:37
So you would see that. 00:54:41
The house is. 00:54:43
Almost. 00:54:45
20 feet The first floor of the house is almost 20 feet behind this pine tree. 00:54:46
Right here. 00:54:51
And that front corner, that's. 00:54:53
Towards this. 00:54:55
Deck on the 1:00. 00:54:57
13. 00:54:59
Umm. 00:55:00
And then? 00:55:02
The second story of the house close to 117. 00:55:03
Is. 00:55:07
I don't have the exact number. 00:55:07
But I believe it's about. 00:55:09
5-6 feet if I'm looking correctly, 4 feet. So that off the set, set back and so if you go back, 5 feet from that. 00:55:12
Oak tree that you can't see. 00:55:20
The bottom of. 00:55:22
It's behind that. So this house is behind these two houses. 00:55:23
The the main portion of the house, Yes, the garage is up front, but. 00:55:29
The main portion of the house is behind. 00:55:33
But these? 00:55:36
Two houses on either side, so it's not. 00:55:37
Just. 00:55:41
Jumping out at the street that that yes, the deck on top of the garage and the garage. 00:55:41
And then the stairway. 00:55:48
But that's all. The proposed stairway that's going up is. A much nicer stairway. 00:55:49
Then this would. 00:55:54
Stairway with. 00:55:56
The trellis. 00:55:58
A trash enclosure there. 00:55:59
We've got our trash enclosure. 00:56:01
Backfire planter and behind the tree there. 00:56:03
And we're, you know, we're trying to. 00:56:07
Provide a lot of services for a property. That's. 00:56:10
Only 59 feet wide. 00:56:13
I have a question. Go back to something you said a moment ago before Hunter had his comments. I'm with you on the. 00:56:18
On the placement of the house from the street, it's great to get the. 00:56:26
The garbage and recycling. 00:56:30
More hidden? That's wonderful. You said something about the new house would be. 00:56:32
And proposed house would be the same height as the neighbors. 00:56:38
And I'm not seeing that in the drawings. I'm seeing that it's three stories, basically, the garage and then the two living 00:56:42
stories. 00:56:46
Which is what's putting it so tall. Am I misunderstanding something? 00:56:50
What I'm saying is so the garage is lower than both of the neighboring garages. 00:56:55
For the garage, I can see that, yeah. 00:56:59
And so. 00:57:03
It. 00:57:04
Is a little taller, yes, I said. It's a little bit taller. 00:57:05
I don't know the exact number, but a couple feet taller than the neighboring houses. 00:57:09
Umm. 00:57:13
But it's not significantly. 00:57:15
Taller. 00:57:18
In in that sense. 00:57:21
So. 00:57:23
Yes, it it does. 00:57:24
Go up a little taller. The only reason we put the garage in. 00:57:26
Was because of the city standard requiring. 00:57:30
So. 00:57:33
That was the. 00:57:34
That that. 00:57:36
Having the garage. 00:57:37
As a requirement is. 00:57:39
A significant burden on this property. 00:57:41
We're trying to make a. 00:57:45
A building fit. 00:57:46
With the. Yeah, I can appreciate that. Yeah. And that's. 00:57:48
That's a nice improvement for proposed houses that it wouldn't. 00:57:53
Be parking in the street or they may have just parked on the lawn there from what I'm seeing. 00:57:56
OK. Thanks for the clarification. 00:58:00
I have one more question for the designer. 00:58:08
So the. 00:58:13
You're. 00:58:15
Essentially setting the garage slab. 00:58:15
Close to the elevation of the street, benching and kind of digging it out, retaining it in. 00:58:18
The ceiling The proposed ceiling height of the garage is 9 feet. 00:58:25
From what I'm reading in the north elevation on sheet A 3.1. 00:58:31
And then that's kind of determining the finished floor of the main level and and everything goes up from there. 00:58:38
So I I guess one of my questions is. 00:58:44
Does do you need to have an 8A9 foot ceiling in the garage? Because every. 00:58:49
It seems that that's. 00:58:54
Defining. 00:58:56
The respective heights of all elements above it. It's driving everything up from there. 00:58:58
Umm. 00:59:03
That's a question. 00:59:04
Well. 00:59:07
There. 00:59:10
The only adjustment we could do to make that work? 00:59:11
Is we. 00:59:15
Would have to. 00:59:16
Remove the. 00:59:18
Doorway That's in the hallway on the 1st floor because the grade at the back of the property is. 00:59:19
Sloping so much. 00:59:27
That. 00:59:29
If we were to lower the house, that floor would go. 00:59:30
Underground all the way up to the kitchen and so we would have to put that. 00:59:35
If there was no other. 00:59:41
Door on the first floor. 00:59:43
Adjust the front door. 00:59:44
We could. 00:59:46
Do that or the only other door we could put in is next to the. 00:59:47
Refrigerator which is almost directly across from the entry which would really. 00:59:51
Damaged the living room so. 00:59:55
The reason for that? 00:59:57
One extra foot was just to get. 00:59:59
Another door on the first floor. 01:00:03
And to prevent the whole first floor from being kind of. 01:00:06
A couple feet underground, the back bedroom is already underground. 01:00:10
A little bit. 01:00:14
But. 01:00:17
You know, we've we've pushed this building in the ground. 01:00:18
As much as we possibly could. 01:00:21
It does appear that you're. 01:00:28
Already grading out the backyard? 01:00:30
A bit in order to. 01:00:33
But your your door threshold out the backyard, correct? 01:00:35
Yes. 01:00:41
And there is. There is one. 01:00:42
Major situation with this neighborhood. 01:00:45
Uh. 01:00:48
The. 01:00:49
One of the neighboring properties. 01:00:50
Up above. 01:00:52
I'm not sure how many of them but. 01:00:53
The water seems to run. 01:00:55
From the. 01:00:57
Benito Bonita. 01:00:59
There's. I don't remember what the whole. 01:01:00
Culvert situation was or what was going on? 01:01:03
But there's kind of a little. 01:01:06
Stream that runs through this property. 01:01:09
And so we had to. 01:01:12
Design or. 01:01:14
Drainage to help. 01:01:16
Allow for that to continue. 01:01:18
To go through. 01:01:20
Umm. 01:01:22
It's. 01:01:23
And it that. 01:01:24
Kind of is a city situation up there because they do have some kind of drains and things going on, but I don't know what's going 01:01:25
on up there. 01:01:28
And I've heard some of the other neighbors say something about there's issues with water running through there. 01:01:32
And so. 01:01:37
We. 01:01:38
Are trying to avoid. 01:01:39
Too much? 01:01:43
Of drainage issues also with this with this structure, you know we've been we've done the. 01:01:45
As as much. 01:01:51
Working around trees. 01:01:53
Height limits. 01:01:55
Umm. 01:01:57
And trying to keep it as. 01:01:58
That's. 01:01:59
Short as possible. 01:02:00
Adding garages. 01:02:02
And you know. 01:02:03
Being able to provide. 01:02:05
You know, square footage for the owner. 01:02:07
Umm. 01:02:09
To be able to have a home which she. 01:02:10
Feels comfortable with. 01:02:13
It it has been a little bit of a challenge and so. 01:02:15
You know it's, it's not. 01:02:19
The most. 01:02:22
Ideal lot to have to. 01:02:23
Designer realm. 01:02:26
I understand that it is a. 01:02:31
Challenging site. Another question I have for you is on the last sheet of the drawing set a 4.1 parapet detail 6. 01:02:32
You don't have a dimension that calls out the height of that parapet wall, but. 01:02:43
Can I assume that that parapet wall extends all the way around all of these flat roof? 01:02:49
The perimeters of these flat roofs. 01:02:54
When I look at the roof plan. 01:02:56
What is the height of the wall? 01:02:59
The height of the pyramid wall. 01:03:02
If we look at the A 3.2 sheet, that last sheet that you're looking at. 01:03:04
Somehow that ended up. 01:03:09
Jumping in there from the previous approval because you'll see that section as the approval. 01:03:12
The previous approval it's not. 01:03:18
That section is from a single story. 01:03:19
But so if you look on a 3.2. 01:03:22
You'll see the parapet. 01:03:25
Heights. 01:03:26
Umm. 01:03:27
So the parapet is basically. 01:03:29
17 inches the ceiling, the roof will be. 01:03:32
No more than 12 inches. 01:03:36
Above the top plates. 01:03:39
And you'll see on those. 01:03:42
Drawings there. 01:03:45
They have the. 01:03:47
Height of the structure relative to. 01:03:48
Average natural beat grade also. 01:03:51
On that. 01:03:55
That that was one of the questions that was asked before is where it's shown. 01:03:55
And that's shown on that a 3.2 sheet. 01:03:59
We have the. 01:04:02
Natural grade and they've proposed grade. 01:04:04
We are pushing a little bit of dirt around. 01:04:07
Just to make the ground. 01:04:11
A little. 01:04:14
More. 01:04:16
I don't know, just so it it flows a little better back there. 01:04:18
Umm. 01:04:22
And so you can see that back door when you look at the east elevation. 01:04:23
If we did push. 01:04:28
The building down lower. 01:04:29
You would see, you know it's getting a little questionable about. 01:04:32
Water coming into the back of the house and I I would remove the door if we pushed the house down another. 01:04:37
Another foot. 01:04:43
I would. 01:04:44
Not be opposed to. 01:04:46
Shortening up those parapets, I mean, they really don't have any. 01:04:47
You know. 01:04:51
Need to be. 01:04:52
Too much power in the roof. 01:04:54
They don't. 01:04:56
I I think that that's a much easier fix than lowering the house and that's I'm just looking for anything I can do to to. 01:04:57
Bring it down a little bit and more in scale with the. 01:05:06
Neighborhood. 01:05:09
I. 01:05:12
I appreciate. 01:05:12
A lot of what you're doing here, I think it's there's some nice materials and it's. 01:05:15
You put a lot effort into it, I can see that. 01:05:21
I I like modern design. I don't have an issue with that, and nor do I think that that's inconsistent with the design guidelines 01:05:25
say. What's inconsistent is the scale of the house relative to the neighbors. 01:05:31
And some sites just don't support as much house as others and that's that's kind of something that the property underneath needs 01:05:37
to understand as well. Your client needs to understand that if they bought a. 01:05:41
Narrow. 01:05:46
Skinny. 01:05:47
Lot and. 01:05:48
It. 01:05:51
That's it. It is what it is. 01:05:52
I certainly you could bring that parapet wall down. It's not doing anything other than just making the building more massive in my 01:05:55
opinion. 01:05:59
17 inches of of of a wall that serves no other purpose than to. 01:06:03
You know, shade the neighbors and and make this house taller. 01:06:08
Is that? 01:06:13
I would have no problem with that, but there. 01:06:14
There is something that has to be understood. 01:06:16
Wrote to to. 01:06:19
When people are saying. 01:06:20
Three stories, if you look at that W elevation. 01:06:22
The garage. 01:06:26
Is just. 01:06:27
Up to where? 01:06:28
The front door is right there, so basically. 01:06:29
The whole house is only two stories because the garage is. 01:06:33
Underground. 01:06:36
You know, I mean most of it. 01:06:38
So. 01:06:41
There is a. 01:06:42
Tiny crawl space. I mean it's. 01:06:44
Yeah, it's like maybe 3 feet tall. 01:06:46
At the highest point. 01:06:48
But. 01:06:50
It's it's not. 01:06:51
A large. 01:06:54
Massive two-story home that's going on this property. I mean you're talking. 01:06:56
23 feet tall with these 2 1/2 foot parapet. 01:07:01
Sure. 01:07:05
17 inch parapet. 01:07:06
You know, we take that parapet away. Yeah, we could. 01:07:08
We could lower it down a little, but then we have this slow proof if we take that. 01:07:11
Parapet down, we might even be lower than the neighboring houses. 01:07:16
Umm. 01:07:20
And this is like we're saying here, it's. 01:07:21
Basically A2 story. 01:07:24
With that section, that back section on the West elevation, that is a. 01:07:27
That has the. 01:07:34
Parapet and the front has the slope roof. 01:07:37
You go to the other side on the east elevation. 01:07:41
And it has the L shape to where it's not one solid wall the whole length. 01:07:44
As you said before, it's a 2D image, so you don't see that. 01:07:49
Step back. 01:07:54
And that's hidden. Nobody sees that, except for possibly the neighborhood. 01:07:56
113 if they were in their backyard. 01:08:02
They would be able to possibly see that back bell there, so. 01:08:06
Or maybe up at Benito, but. 01:08:11
It's a little questionable because you're so high up you'd be looking down on it. 01:08:14
A lot of it is is really questionable because when you look at the front. 01:08:19
There are multiple setbacks. The garage is forward the left side. 01:08:23
Has the stone with the balcony. 01:08:28
That sets back and then the right side has the slope roof, so it's not. 01:08:30
One massive structure and it's set back from both the properties on the left and the right of the property, so. 01:08:36
It. 01:08:43
It's hard for me to just say. 01:08:44
Ohh yeah, no, we're we're being. 01:08:47
Extremely massive here. 01:08:49
So this image here. 01:08:52
Yeah, we did our best to kind of. 01:08:54
Draw up what the neighbors houses were but. 01:08:57
I mean, as you know, I mean, I didn't go up to the neighbor's house and go. 01:09:01
Measure every bit of their house I wasn't going to go. 01:09:05
Intrude in their property. 01:09:08
Umm. 01:09:10
And. 01:09:12
And do that if the neighbor wanted me to. 01:09:13
You know, do that. I mean, that's one thing, but. 01:09:16
I just, I I it's hard for us to. 01:09:20
Kind of. 01:09:23
Go take the neighbors. 01:09:23
Building and put it on our drawing here and so the accuracy of this is kind of. 01:09:25
From images that best we can. 01:09:31
In my opinion, if we held this. 01:09:34
117 up to the Street View. I think I drew that a little too short when you looked at the space between the garage door and the. 01:09:37
The top window. 01:09:45
I I think 117 is a lot more massive than that. 01:09:47
On the right. 01:09:50
So I mean it's. 01:09:53
It's hard and you can see how massive that deck is that wood deck on the. 01:09:55
113 sign Yeah. I. 01:09:59
They don't feel this house is that massive. 01:10:02
I I appreciate what you're saying. I mean it. 01:10:13
I'm an architect and I I have to do these drawings as well. 01:10:16
But you are presenting us with this Street View and and we're just reading what you're giving us and. 01:10:20
If you've under. 01:10:28
Underrepresented the neighboring houses, then that that doesn't serve you well. 01:10:30
This. 01:10:38
It's, it's. 01:10:40
You you have to do your best to give us some, you know, accurate representation of what the what the relationship is between your 01:10:42
proposed design and the neighbors. 01:10:46
And we're going to take your drawing at face value at it. 01:10:51
According to this drawing, your your proposed design is much taller than your neighbors. That's. 01:10:55
And I'd say, I mean more than a couple of feet it looks, I would say. 01:11:00
Three to four feet. 01:11:04
More like 4. 01:11:07
That's but, and that may not be correct if you've underestimated underrepresented the neighbors. 01:11:08
That's. 01:11:15
That's not. 01:11:16
That's we're just we're just receiving the drawing you give us and looking at it. 01:11:18
You know, I can speak to that because I spent quite a bit of time in front of the house looking at the story polls. 01:11:24
That were done to scale, and they are. 01:11:29
Taller than the neighbors homes. I don't know how exactly how much but. 01:11:31
That. 01:11:35
Representation is. 01:11:36
Is accurate. 01:11:37
As I understand it. 01:11:38
And I I did as well and and I. 01:11:40
So I I it it may be a little bit inaccurate this drawing, but it I think for the most part it's a representation of what you're 01:11:43
what you're trying to get approved here and. 01:11:47
I also want to just reiterate that. 01:11:53
This is every bit of a of it to call us anything less than a 2 1/2 story house. 01:11:57
That garage is. 01:12:02
Is mostly above the existing grades you are having to. 01:12:04
Grade down and retain that structure in but. 01:12:09
Most of it is above the existing grade topography and. 01:12:12
It looks more like a three story house than A2 story house to me. 01:12:18
Well, I think the the first floor. 01:12:21
Sits atop the yeah. 01:12:25
Which would denote. Then that would be. 01:12:27
You know. 01:12:31
A2 Story House with A. 01:12:32
Garage below which? 01:12:34
2 + 1. 01:12:37
But I feel, I feel like. 01:12:38
I feel like the designer has been put between a rock and a hard place because he's been told this is what I want. 01:12:43
And he has given this to his. 01:12:51
Client and unfortunately I feel like like what you said sometimes. 01:12:54
A lot begs for something a little bit smaller. 01:13:00
And. 01:13:04
Like I said, I can see in my mind's eye the undulation on the front on the street side. 01:13:06
But I just feel it's very boxy. 01:13:12
On the sides and on the top, I would be happy if they brought the parapet down. I would be happy if they did something in order 01:13:17
to. 01:13:22
Umm. 01:13:28
Give some more privacy from the balcony. I don't know if that's going to be opaque glass atop or drop that balcony. 01:13:32
Down. 01:13:42
And then add, you know, opaque glass or something all the way around. I don't know. 01:13:45
Umm. 01:13:51
But I think there's privacy issues and there's height issues for me. 01:13:52
I agree. I mean, I understand that again. I mean, you're the, the. 01:13:57
The decision to put. 01:14:03
This two-story residence. 01:14:05
The the four levels of it are determined by. 01:14:08
The height of the garage if. 01:14:11
If you could. 01:14:13
Alleviate that problem and get the house. 01:14:15
For not sitting on top of the garage, that might help you. 01:14:19
Bring the four levels of the house down and still have your garage. 01:14:23
I don't know if you can do all that with and then still being compliant with. 01:14:28
Site coverage limits, et cetera, that's. 01:14:32
That's your job as the designer of the project, but. 01:14:34
The. 01:14:38
Clearly that's driving the floor levels of the house up. I also understand you've got your issue in the backyard that you have to 01:14:39
resolve, but. 01:14:42
That's. 01:14:49
Your problem to solve. 01:14:50
Agreed with Sarah to the. 01:14:52
The railing of the proposed deck on the second level, having it be clad in stone all the way up to the top rail, is is it's just 01:14:56
increasing the mass. 01:15:01
The neighbors have decks, but they have open ballaster railings and and it's a more ethereal style and you can see through it and 01:15:07
you know, look beyond, see the skies, see the tree canopies. 01:15:12
Umm. 01:15:18
It just adds to the massiveness of it all. 01:15:20
I think this. 01:15:24
I there's things I like about this project, but I think it needs more work. 01:15:25
Did you have anything to say, Scott? 01:15:33
Again, I have nothing further. I agree with everything. 01:15:37
That has been said. 01:15:41
Umm. 01:15:42
I do think. 01:15:44
That the guidelines require that. 01:15:46
Construction be. 01:15:49
In harmony with the surrounding neighborhood, and I don't think that that. 01:15:51
Works here, So that's an additional concern and we can agree to disagree on that. But I have a problem with the with the design in 01:15:56
this neighborhood. 01:16:00
Any further? 01:16:05
I'll go back to the plan that was approved. I don't know when, a year or two ago. I'm looking at it now. 01:16:08
It's. 01:16:15
Still a two-bedroom house. 01:16:17
Family room or living room, kitchen, dining. 01:16:19
Within the kitchen area. 01:16:22
Has 2 bathrooms. 01:16:24
That seems to be done in a better scale for the size of the lot. 01:16:26
Um, I can appreciate the. 01:16:32
The homeowner wanting more space. 01:16:34
I I really do understand that. 01:16:37
So yes, I would love to redesign that. 01:16:40
Is more applicable to the space and more respectful of the neighbors. 01:16:43
I think we've. 01:16:49
Talked a lot, so we can probably. 01:16:50
Entertain a motion. 01:16:56
It sounds like. 01:16:58
Possibly a continuance. 01:16:59
With the redesign. 01:17:03
Would anybody like to take a stab at a? 01:17:06
Motion. 01:17:10
I'll give it a try. 01:17:18
I would make a motion that. 01:17:20
The. 01:17:23
Applicant that we continue the project to. 01:17:25
A date uncertain, unless if the applicant has a date in mind with it. Where they feel like they can turn around, they need to let 01:17:29
us know. 01:17:32
I would assume this is gonna take at least a couple of months. 01:17:37
So I would like to make a motion that we continue this project with the request of the applicant redesign. 01:17:41
So that it is more in scale with the neighborhood. 01:17:48
In terms of the height and massing. 01:17:53
And do we want to say anything about the privacy of the balcony off of the? 01:17:57
Bedroom upstairs. 01:18:03
Yeah, so to make some effort to to. 01:18:09
Locate any second story balconies so that they're compatible with their neighboring outdoor spaces and and windows into the into 01:18:12
their homes and and just do your best to. 01:18:17
Maintaining privacy with between neighbours. 01:18:24
I would second that. 01:18:29
I'm letting Laurel write. Sorry. This stuff. Yeah, OK, so. 01:18:35
Umm. 01:18:40
We have a motion by Vice Chair Eldridge. 01:18:41
To continue to update uncertain and request the applicant. 01:18:45
To provide plans with the rendering more in scale with the neighborhood in terms of massing, and to locate second story balcony to 01:18:49
be compatible with the neighbors and to maintain privacy as much as possible. 01:18:54
Umm. 01:19:02
So. 01:19:04
Roll Call, Vice Chair Eldridge. 01:19:05
Chair. 01:19:10
Boil. 01:19:12
Aye. 01:19:13
Member Brooks. 01:19:15
Aye and Secretary Stephen so motion passes for 2021. 01:19:17
Thank you. Thank you. 01:19:23
Next on our agenda is Item 8A, Architectural permit 23-0126. 01:19:31
The address is 991 Vanito Court. 01:19:39
Do we have a staff report? 01:19:43
Yes, we do. 01:19:47
Let me just I was going to share my screen. 01:19:49
OK, Good afternoon again, chair board members and members of the public. I'm Laurel O'halloran, project planner for Architectural 01:19:56
Permit 23-0126, located at 991 Benito Ave. in Pacific Grove. 01:20:03
The proposed project includes A remodel of an existing single family residence, including 110 first floor addition and a 514 01:20:10
square foot second story addition. 01:20:15
With the 55 square foot deck on the front elevation. 01:20:21
Looking out to the street with a cable rail. 01:20:24
At completion, the home will have a height of 23 feet. 01:20:28
The proposed exterior changes will match the existing board and button. 01:20:31
At the March 22nd, 2023 Historic Resources Committee, then residence was determined to be ineligible for the city's historic 01:20:35
Resources inventory. 01:20:39
This property is not in an area of special biological system significance, the coastal zone, or an archaeological sensitive area. 01:20:45
Conditions of approval have been added to address inadvertent discovery of cultural resources. The applicant has provided a 01:20:53
project data sheet indicating that the development standards of the R1 zoning district, including building coverage, site coverage 01:20:58
and gross floor area, are met. 01:21:03
With no exceptions requested. 01:21:08
Staff recommends the air break. 01:21:10
Approve architectural permit 23-0126 Subject to findings, conditions of approval, and a Class 1 secret exemption. 01:21:13
This concludes my staff report and I do have the designer here. 01:21:21
If you have any questions and I'm available as well. Thank you. 01:21:26
Thank you. Would the building designer care to give a presentation as well? 01:21:30
Wow in person. 01:21:39
In person. I haven't done one of these in person since. 01:21:41
Probably 2019. Well, welcome. Thank you. 01:21:45
I will keep my presentation short. It it's pretty obvious what we have. It's Del Monte Park. 01:21:50
Umm. 01:21:57
I've done several designs in this neighborhood. 01:21:58
Three in this particular cul-de-sac. 01:22:02
Couple down the street, so I'm very familiar with the area. 01:22:04
These lots in this call de SAC are all pie shaped irregular. 01:22:09
Your regular setbacks. 01:22:14
It's a pretty diverse neighborhood. It has. 01:22:16
An act electric type of design. There's several different, some of them are still the old style which were. 01:22:19
Ohh Mid 70s board and Bat Little Ranch. They're all low sloped roofs like. 01:22:26
Two 2, 1/2 and 12. 01:22:32
Some of them are still with. 01:22:34
The. 01:22:38
Gravel roofs, not been upgraded or any of that, but so for the most part I mean we're we're pretty much just adding a small 01:22:40
addition to the lower floor. 01:22:44
To give an area to expand the dining and make the kitchen a little bit bigger. Right now it's like a little postage stamp area for 01:22:49
a kitchen. 01:22:53
Dining room and living are basically together. 01:22:57
And then we're. 01:23:01
Putting a staircase in toward the front. 01:23:02
With that bringing in some light with some extra windows on the front to. 01:23:06
Bring some extra light into the living space. 01:23:10
And then going up to a small addition, it's only 500 little over 500 square feet. 01:23:13
It's basically just a master suite, the little sitting area and a. 01:23:18
Bathroom and. 01:23:23
Walk in closet. 01:23:24
The deck is very small. 01:23:26
It's mainly there just for some outdoor space from the second level. 01:23:28
There are no privacy issues that faces the street. 01:23:32
Even the neighbor on if you're facing the property, the neighbor on the left. 01:23:37
I don't even think they'll be able to see the balcony, let alone have any privacy issues. 01:23:41
And everything else around it doesn't have any privacy issues. 01:23:47
Umm. 01:23:51
Height limit. We're under the height limit and like again. 01:23:52
We're at a low slope roof, so we're able to keep it low. 01:23:56
And then materials were basically going with the same materials that are on the property, upgrading the windows to a newer window. 01:24:01
It will still be a vinyl to match the rest of the structure that's there, but all the windows are going to be upgraded to newer 01:24:09
vinyl windows. 01:24:12
Board and bat. 01:24:17
We're doing a different roofing material. 01:24:19
It's low slope, so we're not able to use it. 01:24:22
A real asphalt shingle. We're gonna have to go with a sort of a built up roofing, but it has a it's a. 01:24:25
Special product that has a. 01:24:31
Architectural stamp to it that makes it look like. 01:24:35
You know. 01:24:39
An asphalt shingle roof, although it's not. 01:24:40
We didn't want to change the roof configuration as far as the pitch goes because. 01:24:43
The existing house all the way around that we're not affecting the roof is still the low to slope 2 and 12 slope. 01:24:48
So we kept the upper portion 2 and 12. 01:24:56
And we are trying to retain the inside, trying to retain the vaulted ceiling that's there, so. 01:24:59
We've. 01:25:04
Sidestepped the Ridge on the inside to create a taller space to allow us to carry one corner of the second floor. 01:25:05
And therefore allowing us to keep the volume space with all the extra windows now on the inside lower floor of the living and 01:25:13
dining and kitchen. 01:25:17
Other than that. 01:25:23
Most of the neighbors already know what's going on that. 01:25:25
This is a pretty tight little neighborhood, so. 01:25:28
Everybody talks about what's going on. 01:25:31
And so, you know, overall, I think we've done a pretty good job with it. 01:25:34
Uh. 01:25:38
Definitely don't think you're gonna have the same issues with this as you just had on the last project. 01:25:39
And you know, I'm I'm here to answer any questions that you might have. I believe my clients. 01:25:44
They are currently on vacation, but. 01:25:49
They are on the zoom meeting, so if you have questions for them, they. 01:25:52
Should be available to ask. 01:25:56
Or answer any questions. 01:25:58
Great. 01:25:59
Thank you. You're welcome. 01:26:01
And we can open it up to public comment if anybody has. 01:26:05
Would like to speak to this project? Now is your chance and please raise your virtual hand if you would like to. 01:26:10
I've seen no hands raised. 01:26:22
OK. I'm going to go ahead and close public comment, bring it back to the board. 01:26:23
Um. 01:26:28
Does anybody have any? 01:26:31
Burning desire to go first. 01:26:33
I would just like to say that I I think this is a tastefully designed project that's completely compatible with the existing house 01:26:37
and the surrounding neighborhood. We're not hearing any opposition from concerned neighbors and. 01:26:43
It doesn't surprise me because it's. 01:26:49
This is very appropriate. I think it fits in and and I support it. 01:26:53
Right. 01:26:59
Anybody else? 01:27:00
I can echo what Hunter just said. 01:27:03
We didn't see any opposition from from neighbors and it was lovely to go over the plans. Thanks for explaining it in more detail. 01:27:05
And yeah, I don't have any concerns, OK? 01:27:13
Thanks. 01:27:16
No comments from me. Great. Well, I have to echo what everybody else said and I think this is a lovely little cul-de-sac and PG 01:27:18
with lots of. 01:27:22
Wonderful, loving neighbors, and I think this is a vast improvement to this home. 01:27:27
And. 01:27:34
And I think that this will really improve the quality of life for. 01:27:36
For this family. 01:27:42
So thank you for this wonderful design. I think we can entertain and. 01:27:46
A motion. 01:27:53
I'd also like to say I appreciate that you're getting rid of that arched window. 01:27:54
Yeah, Ditto, yeah. 01:28:00
I'd make a motion that we approve the project as proposed. 01:28:02
I'll second that. Great. Can we get a roll call vote? 01:28:07
Yes, Vice Chair Eldridge. 01:28:12
Aye, Secretary Sutfin, Chair Boyle and member Brooks. 01:28:14
Motion passes 42021. Thank you. 01:28:20
Great. 01:28:24
Looks thank you. Looks as though we have no. 01:28:26
Continued and ongoing business, no new business, which is item 10. 01:28:33
No presentations Item 11 and the next meeting will be August 8th, 2023. 01:28:38
It's 430. Our meeting is adjourned. 01:28:46
Thank you. 01:28:50
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23. 00:00:16
Can we please have a roll call? 00:00:19
Vote. 00:00:22
I mean vote. Can we please have a A roll call? 00:00:24
Yes, Chair. Before we do that, member Bornstein, if you're not here in person, you needed to publicly notify where your location 00:00:27
is so the public could join you. 00:00:33
I did. I don't believe that was done. That wasn't done through the city. 00:00:40
So. 00:00:45
You can listen to the meeting, but you cannot participate in voting. 00:00:46
OK, I thought by notifying you. 00:00:51
Before this meeting that that satisfied that requirement. 00:00:54
Umm. 00:01:00
The way that I understand it from the city manager. 00:01:01
Is that we? 00:01:04
It. 00:01:06
There has to be a notification of your specific location and posted on site. 00:01:07
And I'm sorry, still learning about this process because it is new so. 00:01:13
We welcome you to stay at the meeting but just not be a voting member. 00:01:18
OK. 00:01:23
OK. Thank you. 00:01:25
OK. So I will take A roll call now. 00:01:27
Chair Boyle. 00:01:31
Here. 00:01:33
Vice Chair Eldridge here. 00:01:33
Member Brooks. 00:01:36
And Secretary Sutfin. 00:01:38
OK, and then Member Bornstein is here, but. 00:01:41
It was not publicly noticed, so she will be listening but not participating. Thank you. 00:01:46
Thank you. And item number two, approval of the agenda. 00:01:53
I'm assuming everybody's had a chance to look at the agenda if we can get a. 00:02:00
Motion to Approve. 00:02:06
I can do that motion to approve the agenda. 00:02:09
And we need a second. 00:02:13
I'll second that. 00:02:16
Great. We have a motion And a second, Can we have a roll call vote please? 00:02:18
Yes. 00:02:24
Secretary 7. 00:02:26
Yes, Vice Chair Eldridge. 00:02:27
Yes, member Brooks. 00:02:30
Yes, and chair Boyle. 00:02:31
Yes. 00:02:33
Motion has been passed for 2021. 00:02:34
Thank you. 00:02:39
Moving right along to item number three, board and staff announcements, city related items only. Does anybody on the board have 00:02:40
any? 00:02:45
Any announcements? 00:02:52
No. 00:02:55
Staff, do we have any announcements? No, we do not. OK, we can close that. And item four, our council liaison announcements. I see 00:02:57
miss back here. 00:03:03
Hi Chair Boyle and members of the ARB. The only thing I have coming up on our July 19th City Council meeting will be regarding 00:03:10
Accessory Dwelling Units that will be brought before by the Community Development Director. There has been some changes. 00:03:18
State changes that went into effect January 1, 2023. So we want to stay updated on that. And they're looking to amend the 00:03:27
municipal code for that chapter. So I will bring you more information at your next meeting, unless you're tuned into our 719 00:03:34
meeting. Have a great meeting. Thank you. 00:03:40
Thank you. 00:03:46
And the next item is item five, general public comment. 00:03:51
Umm. 00:03:56
General public comment deals with matters. 00:03:58
Subject to the jurisdiction of the city and the ARB. 00:04:03
That are not on our regular agenda, so please if you would like to. 00:04:07
Speak you. 00:04:13
If you are in person, you're welcome to come up to the dais. 00:04:15
We'll give each person 3 minutes. 00:04:19
And. 00:04:24
Virtual hands can be raised now as well, and I see we have two. 00:04:25
We have Miss Jane Haynes. 00:04:34
Can you hear me? 00:04:40
Yes. 00:04:41
Thank you. 00:04:42
Umm. 00:04:43
I am. 00:04:45
Very concerned that staff mistakenly failed to inform you. 00:04:46
Before your or during your vote on the Pat Hathaway Remodel. 00:04:52
That. 00:04:58
That a historic home like that requires a phase two. 00:05:01
Report. 00:05:06
And so I realized I. 00:05:07
You're able to resend your vote. 00:05:10
But I realize it's not on today recession. It's not on today's agenda. 00:05:13
So what I'm requesting is that. 00:05:18
You request staff to place this on your next agenda. I believe that's July the 26th. 00:05:22
So that you can get a corrected. 00:05:29
Our report informing you what the phase two requirement is. 00:05:32
So that is my public comment. I I hope that. 00:05:38
Staff will agendize this because. 00:05:43
I happened to be writing a historic novel about Pacific Grove in 1906 and. 00:05:48
Probably my most valuable source are the photographs Pat Hathaway photographs, and I think that's true for probably. 00:05:55
Anyone attempting some historic study? 00:06:03
So I strongly urge you to put rescission on the next scheduled meeting agenda. 00:06:08
Thank you. 00:06:17
Thank you. 00:06:18
Now we have Miss Lisa Gianni. 00:06:23
Thank you. 00:06:27
It took a long time to figure out everything that went wrong with the ARB's decision to approve. 00:06:28
The permit for a major remodel staff swords of Pat Hathaway's family home and workplace, and to figure out what can be done to 00:06:34
undo the wrong decision that will otherwise result in the loss of an important historic resource for the community, both 00:06:40
architecturally and due to the historic person well known in the community who lived there and provided us with amazing views of 00:06:46
our heritage. 00:06:52
Please rescind your decision. 00:06:59
At the decision you made at the last meeting to approve a major remodel without regard to the Secretary of the Interior standards 00:07:02
the Cities Boards and Commissions Handbook provides, the parliamentary procedures of our committee shall be guided by Roberts 00:07:08
Rules of Order, which described the motion to rescind a decision in section 35 of the 12th edition. You were not guided 00:07:14
appropriately by staff. 00:07:20
As I described in detail in my letter today, three major points in the phase one report were disregarded. 00:07:26
First, the property retains good integrity despite additions in the rear. 00:07:33
Second, the property qualifies for listing on the HRI. 00:07:38
3rd of phase one report with the finding of eligibility for listing on the Historic Resources Inventory, such as the one for 960 00:07:43
Bayview triggers a phase two report, but that didn't happen. 00:07:49
Consequently, the project was approved without regard to the Secretary of Interior Standards and analysis that would have been 00:07:56
made in the phase two report. Also, the permit does not provide any more than inadvertent discovery conditions of approval, 00:08:02
despite a phase two report which indicates the phase two archaeological report which indicates the presence of archaeological and 00:08:08
or tribal resources. 00:08:14
Please do not let the misguided approval stand. It was not based in fact. Any of you who voted, were eligible or were eligible to 00:08:21
vote can make a motion to rescind the vote on the project, presumably. 00:08:27
I don't know whether it has to be agendized next time. My reading of Roberts Rules of Order is that. 00:08:35
Yeah, you can do it at any time. 00:08:42
With or without prior notice. 00:08:45
Umm. 00:08:47
I appreciate the work you do as a volunteer board. I hope you will work with HRC to make the review process for buildings 00:08:48
potentially eligible for the HR. I clear, consistent and protective of PG's heritage. Thank you. 00:08:55
Thank you. 00:09:04
And then we have Miss Dixie Lane. 00:09:07
Good afternoon. 00:09:13
I am going to leave the conversation about. 00:09:15
What can happen about the recension of of, of the decision, et cetera to those that are more knowledgeable? 00:09:21
What I did want to point out, as I did to Council. 00:09:28
Umm. 00:09:32
Last week. 00:09:33
Was that Pat the historic value of Pat Hathaway's home? 00:09:34
Goes far beyond. 00:09:40
His having been raised there and and lived there and had his collection there, which in fact he did. 00:09:43
Um. 00:09:50
It also, his family has a generational. 00:09:51
History with Pacific Grove. 00:09:57
His father. 00:09:59
When they lived there, when Pat was growing up, was the deputy commander of Fort Ord. 00:10:01
His grandmother, who was raised there, used to tell stories of when she lived in that home. And there was. There was no La Porte 00:10:07
mansion. There were no other homes around. It was they were surrounded by a dairy farm. 00:10:14
And his great. 00:10:22
Ohh his aunt. Polly's husband was E Cook Smith. 00:10:24
Who was the namesake for the bank he or owned which was on the corner of Chase? I mean, it was in the Chase building on the corner 00:10:28
of Forest and Lighthouse. 00:10:33
And his great grandfather was Lieutenant Charles Emery, and he was stationed at the Presidio of Monterey and was one of the white 00:10:39
officers in charge of the Company of Buffalo Soldiers. 00:10:46
Back in the day, he and it and. 00:10:53
His history in this community goes on and on and on and on, and much of it took place when that family was living in that home. 00:10:56
So. 00:11:03
It's kind of one of those. 00:11:05
Regardless of architecturally, if it is perfection, it is one of those places kind of like George Washington slept here or. 00:11:08
You know. 00:11:17
This is where. 00:11:18
You know Abraham Lincoln lived or something in this log cabin. 00:11:20
It is. 00:11:23
A home that was. 00:11:25
Is storied in our history here very deeply, as is his family, so I hope, if nothing else, that we can put aside. 00:11:27
Whatever decisions that have been made when we didn't have complete and full information I sent to the ARB. 00:11:37
Not long ago, the same documents that I sent to. 00:11:44
Council last week, which includes the the declaration I made to the Superior Court here in Monterey that kept that was 00:11:49
instrumental in keeping Pat's collection for being broken up and sold off and disseminated. The judge read the whole and looked at 00:11:56
the whole and and changed her decision from allowing that to happen to saying no, that this is this is not what Pat wanted and all 00:12:02
that information. 00:12:09
I sent to you and I hope that you'll take the time to look at it, review it, read it and understand. 00:12:16
Historical significance of that home and the Hathaway family. Thank you. 00:12:22
Thank you for that. 00:12:28
We have Gray Grubbins. 00:12:33
Yes, we have the city attorney here. 00:12:35
Sorry, babe. 00:12:50
I was muted. Can you hear me now? 00:12:51
Yes, thank you. 00:12:53
Yeah, I was asked by staff to attend the meeting. 00:12:55
Umm. 00:12:59
Remember, this item is public comment. You cannot take any action on any item under public comment. You can. This is designed to 00:13:00
allow the public to provide information to you. 00:13:05
At the about matters that are not on the agenda. 00:13:11
I did want to add though that. 00:13:15
Since this the issue that's being discussed. 00:13:18
Is a. 00:13:21
Final decision, the time to appeal and the time for review has passed. 00:13:22
It's not appropriate. 00:13:27
Or a motion to rescind because the decision is final. 00:13:29
And. 00:13:33
That that's just something I wanted to make sure the Commission was aware of that. 00:13:34
Motion to rescind is inappropriate where there's a final decision and the the property rights of the owner. 00:13:40
Are in play here and they have. They have a right to have a finality of their decision. 00:13:45
Like this is a Scott Brooks. 00:13:54
A quick question follow up. 00:13:57
Point what? While we have you there, could you help me understand then when a? 00:14:00
Motion to rescind would be appropriate. I'm trying to understand this the. 00:14:06
Point of of when it is final, you know my opinion is it's not final, it's not appropriate after the the appeal period is run. 00:14:11
Because that's when the vested rights attached for the property owner. 00:14:21
OK, so once the appeal opinion? 00:14:26
The appeal period is over and and what is the appeal period? It's 10 days from your decision. 00:14:29
In Pacific, Grove also has a review that could happen at. 00:14:36
The Planning Commission level of your decision, which is the reviewing body of of. 00:14:40
Of your body. 00:14:45
And that would be. 00:14:46
They have 21 days to to make that type of a decision. 00:14:49
And I I mean, I I'm not even sure motion to rescind is appropriate under this scenario, but I don't see how it could be legal 00:14:54
after. 00:14:58
The appeal period is run. 00:15:02
In the only option after the appeal period is run. 00:15:05
Is for the Commission to. 00:15:10
Ohh up. 00:15:12
And the appeal of period is the, is the. 00:15:13
Any member of the public can ask the Planning Commission to appeal it. 00:15:18
So once your decision is made, it's a final decision under our municipal code. 00:15:21
And just so, but practically then. 00:15:26
No one on the ARB really would ever be able to make. 00:15:29
A motion to rescind outside of the. 00:15:33
Meeting. 00:15:36
When the the motion was. 00:15:37
Made because we obviously don't meet within 10 days. 00:15:39
Right, Yeah, there is entering the meeting. There is something called the motion for reconsideration and that could be made at the 00:15:43
same meeting. 00:15:47
Right. But I I guess my point then is it seems then that. 00:15:52
The motion to rescind, then, is for all intensive purposes. 00:15:56
In applicable if, if. If. 00:16:01
If I if no one on the board. 00:16:03
Couldn't make a motion to rescind. 00:16:06
Within 10 days. 00:16:09
Then and you can't make a motion to ascend at the meeting because it would be a motion to be there would be you know if there if 00:16:11
for some reason hypothetically and I I don't want to drift into. 00:16:15
The merits, I appreciate that, but hypothetically you know during that 10 day period, you know a special meeting could be called 00:16:20
and got it. So we felt there was an error of some kind that was significant. 00:16:26
That would be how it would happen, if it could happen at all. 00:16:33
Very good. Thank you. 00:16:37
Thank you for that clarification. 00:16:40
Do we have any members of the public that care to speak? 00:16:52
No. 00:16:57
OK, I believe we're done with public comment. 00:16:59
Yes. 00:17:03
Seeing no more hands raised, we'll go ahead and close public comment. 00:17:04
And we will go over to the consent agenda. 00:17:11
Are there any members of the board that would like to pull anything from the consent agenda? 00:17:15
And chair, can I just make a point that these are draft minutes? 00:17:23
That you're looking at these, these are draft. I just want to make sure that that's clear. 00:17:28
Thanks. 00:17:34
Nobody on the board wants to pull anything from the consent agenda. 00:17:42
OK. Would any members of the public care to pull anything from the consent agenda? 00:17:46
See. No hands raised. Thank you. 00:18:00
Seeing none we can. 00:18:02
Umm. 00:18:05