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We're good. 00:00:00
All right. Good afternoon, everyone. I'd like to call the May 24th, 2023 meeting of the Historic Resources Committee to order. 00:00:04
And we'll begin with A roll call. 00:00:13
Chair Anton. 00:00:18
Present. 00:00:20
Vice Chair steers here. 00:00:22
Member Bickett. 00:00:25
Member. 00:00:28
Member, please. 00:00:30
Member Greening. 00:00:33
All members are present. 00:00:35
Thank you. We'll move to item number two, approval of the agenda. 00:00:38
Do we have a motion to approve? 00:00:43
So moved. Thank you. Second I second. 00:00:46
Thank you. And we have a roll call vote please. 00:00:50
Aye. 00:01:00
Member. 00:01:03
Grannis. 00:01:04
Member Greening. 00:01:07
Aye. 00:01:09
Member Kleis, please. 00:01:10
Chair Anton. 00:01:14
Aye. 00:01:15
And member Bickett. 00:01:20
We have six I 0 nays. 00:01:24
Motion passes. Thank you. And we'll move to item 3, which is Commission. 00:01:27
It should be committee once again, committee and staff announcements, and if we have. 00:01:31
A staff announcement. 00:01:38
Yes, we have two announcements. We'd like to welcome Aaron Campbell, Associate Planner to the Community Development Department. 00:01:43
Welcome. 00:01:53
And. 00:01:56
Just went to inform you that the staff had has met with Paige and Turnbull. 00:01:59
About a neighborhood character list, we discussed the process. 00:02:04
Involved with creating a list. 00:02:09
Umm. 00:02:11
The guidelines that would be involved and ballpark figures of what the cost may be. 00:02:12
And no definitive, no definitive lift list has been made. 00:02:18
But we just wanted to form. 00:02:23
That we're in discussions. 00:02:25
Thank you. 00:02:28
Any committee announcements? 00:02:30
All right. Seeing none, we'll move on to #4, the council liaison. 00:02:33
Announcements welcome, Mayor Peak. 00:02:37
No. 00:02:43
Good afternoon, Madam Chair, Committee members. 00:02:44
I just have a few announcements. One is that council recently discussed the proposal by Rincon for a general plan update. We had a lengthy discussion on that. That'll be coming back to council on a housing element update. That's for the arena numbers for adding affordable housing. That project is underway. 00:02:48
Also, Rincon is a consultant. 00:03:16
OHH Council also began a discussion of a cannabis ordinance, WE. 00:03:19
There's a lot of questions around. 00:03:26
Delivery that we. 00:03:29
Discussed but didn't come to many conclusions on that. So that'll be coming back. And lastly, 1352 Lighthouse Ave. that's the Noah building was a council subcommittee and it's been discussing what's going to go into an RFQ for a historic assessment. 00:03:33
OK. 00:03:54
So that's in progress. 00:03:55
Thank you very much. 00:03:58
All right. 00:04:02
Monsoon. 00:04:03
Item number 5. General public comments. 00:04:05
1st I'll note that we at least I received. 00:04:08
Written comments from Mike Gibbs, which was really about the Noah building, and from Lisa Chianni and from Jane Fleischman. 00:04:11
So at this point I will open to public comment. 00:04:21
Comments must deal with matters that the. 00:04:25
HRC can deal with but that are not on the current agenda. 00:04:28
So do we have any? 00:04:33
First of all, any in present in house. 00:04:35
Public comments. 00:04:38
I see none. Do we have any virtual public comments? 00:04:41
Let's see one hand raised. 00:04:45
I'll allow Lisa Chiani to speak. 00:04:47
Thank you. I have two brief comments before my main comment here. First of all, the sound system is very. 00:04:51
Difficult for. 00:05:03
For those of us on Zoom, So if you're not speaking directly into your microphone, we don't hear you. And I think maybe member Bickett's microphone is off, because I haven't. 00:05:05
I heard her. 00:05:17
Respond and also I had a question about. 00:05:18
Staff announcement about the. 00:05:23
The neighborhood character list in Page and Turnbull with an estimated price and I wanted to know when we would hear more about that because. 00:05:28
They had a starter list in the HR. I update and I'm I'm not, and then you guys have been setting things aside. 00:05:37
For consideration for the neighbourhood character list, so I'm not quite sure why why we would continue with that. 00:05:44
My main comment is about the former Pat Hathaway home at 960 Bayview. 00:05:52
That was before ARB and I I think it must have been continued. 00:06:00
For lack of time. 00:06:06
There's there's a very. 00:06:08
Good. 00:06:10
Historic report about the home. 00:06:11
Finding that it it is eligible for the HRI. 00:06:15
And and that is my request today, is that you agendize consideration of the home for the HRI? 00:06:20
My only concern about the historic report. 00:06:28
Was that it did not. 00:06:33
Really acknowledge. 00:06:35
The Significance of Pat Hathaway's photography collection, Historical Photography Collection, and his own photography. 00:06:37
Which James Perry of Monterey Historical Society has. 00:06:45
Has commented for a newspaper article. I believe it was that he wants to write up more about that, and perhaps Kent Seavey could write about it because. 00:06:51
His heroic. 00:07:01
Efforts have not been significantly acknowledged for for what he's done to to have Pats collection. 00:07:02
Preserved here in Monterey. 00:07:12
Of a county by the Monterey Historical Monterey County Historical Society. Sorry, I'm I wasn't clear about that. 00:07:14
Is so putting. Considering this for addition to the HR, I would not be the complicated process it was for is. 00:07:24
Is for the Noah building because there's already a historic report. 00:07:34
Finding it. 00:07:38
Eligible and we just need a little more information about Pat himself to make the report complete. I hope you will agendize that for your next meeting. Thank you very much. 00:07:41
Thank you very much too. 00:07:53
Could we have the timer present? 00:07:56
It's. I didn't see one on this. 00:07:59
Oh, I'm sorry. It's moved. 00:08:02
Sorry. 00:08:03
OK. 00:08:05
All right. 00:08:06
Let's see, the next item is the consent agenda. We we have one more hand raised. Ohh, I'm sorry. 00:08:08
I thought you said there was just one. OK. 00:08:14
I'm gonna allow Inga Lorenzen Dahmer to speak. 00:08:17
Thank you. 00:08:23
Yeah, I wondered about the just one also. Thank you. And I'm going to echo Lisa's comments. Absolutely. 00:08:25
As regard to yes, you're speaking into microphones and no, I didn't hear, member Bickett. 00:08:34
And and that Pat Hathaway is one of our treasures and he is more than just Pacific Grove. He is nationally and. 00:08:40
Recognized also in his collection and so this is something that I really would like to push forward to. 00:08:50
And. 00:08:58
And agenda is it. 00:09:00
And also I'm wondering where are. 00:09:02
Quote UN quote Senior planner has gone as in Joe Sidor. 00:09:06
And what is happening because? 00:09:11
We are getting a lot of new ones. 00:09:15
Or we've just added a new one and and welcome. 00:09:18
To Aaron Campbell, but. 00:09:23
What's happening with our? 00:09:26
Contracted Senior planner? I would really like to know. 00:09:28
Thank you very much. 00:09:33
Thank you. 00:09:36
Do we have anymore? 00:09:39
Online people, no more hands raised, alright? 00:09:41
Thank you. I'll close public comment. 00:09:44
And excuse me, move on now to the consent agenda. 00:09:47
Does anybody from the? 00:09:52
Committee wish to remove something from the consent agenda. 00:09:54
All right, seeing none, does anybody from the audience wish to move? 00:10:00
Something off the consent agenda? 00:10:03
From the virtual audience. 00:10:08
All right, we have two hands raised, OK? 00:10:13
I'm gonna let Angel Lorenzen Dahmer. 00:10:17
Speak. 00:10:20
I'm sorry. I was thinking it was a City Council meeting. Sandra always lowers our hands. I have to lower mine myself. I will do that. 00:10:23
Thank you. 00:10:32
No more hands raised. No more hands raised. 00:10:40
Alright then, may we have a motion to? 00:10:43
Approve the consent agenda. 00:10:46
Thank you. Do we have a second? I think you're mic I second motion. 00:10:52
May we have a roll call vote please? 00:10:59
Member Grannis. 00:11:02
Aye. 00:11:04
We're Beckett. 00:11:06
Vice chair steers. 00:11:10
Aye. 00:11:12
Chair Anton. 00:11:14
Aye. 00:11:15
Member, please. 00:11:17
Aye. 00:11:18
Member Greening. 00:11:19
Motion is passed. 00:11:22
Six eyes, 0 nays. 00:11:24
Just to repeat who seconded the motion? 00:11:27
That would be member Bickett. 00:11:30
OK. Thank you. 00:11:35
Got that? 00:11:36
OK. 00:11:37
On the next item is item number 9. 00:11:38
And the first one is the architectural permit for. 00:11:42
Umm. 00:11:45
129 Forest Ave. and unfortunately, two of us must recuse ourselves again. 00:11:46
So we'll do that now and I will turn the meeting over to Vice Chair Steers. 00:11:52
The presentation. 00:12:30
From. 00:12:32
The architect or some some another. 00:12:33
Yeah. 00:12:37
Vice Chair steers staff has a a report. Yes. And then we'll hear from the architect. Please go ahead. Good afternoon, Vice Chair committee members and members of the public. 00:12:39
I'm Laurel Ohana o'halleran and I'm representing Joe Sedor for this project. 00:12:49
That is Architectural permit and Coastal development permit 22-0305 for 129 Forest Ave. 00:12:55
This has been continued from the April 26 HRC regular meeting. 00:13:04
The proposed project includes the relocation of the existing residence approximately 4 feet, 8 inches further from the street, thereby increasing the front setback to a conforming distance. 00:13:08
Construction Constructing a new perimeter foundation. 00:13:19
And lowering the height by approximately 18 inches. 00:13:23
A partial demolition of. 00:13:26
Approximately 132 two square feet of a rear addition. 00:13:28
Replacement of windows with historically correct or period windows and construction of approximately 791 square feet of first and second story additions. 00:13:32
The resulting 1397 square foot structure would include a. 00:13:42
12 Accessory Dwelling Unit. 00:13:48
And a two-story main dwelling. 00:13:51
The proposed project is not eligible for the standard residential. 00:13:53
CDP exemption. 00:13:57
And CD and CD staff forward a CDP determination to the California Coastal Commission on January 12th of 2023. 00:13:59
Per the historic assessment, the standard for rehabilitation is met by retaining the historic use of the property as a single family residence. 00:14:08
And retaining the historic character and fabric of the primary elevation. 00:14:15
Staff recommends that the HRC recommend approval to the Planning Commission of the AP and the CDP, subject to the findings, conditions of approval and a class one and a Class 31 categorical exemptions. This concludes my staff report and the architects here if for further questions as well. 00:14:20
With the architect like to give us a presentation. 00:14:41
And I'm thinking 10 minutes maybe. 00:14:44
I yeah. 00:14:48
Hi, I'm Bill Mefford, I'm the architect on the project. You since this has been continued, you've obviously seen it before and the last meeting you guys were running some more clarification or some more. 00:14:49
Specifics on some of the materials and whatnot. 00:15:02
Which I we've given in the packet we are, we did switch the siding to a plywood. 00:15:06
Plywood board and bath is what I'm calling it. So it will look like board and bat siding with the plywood. So it'll be a different spacing than the than the original board and bat siding. 00:15:13
We are proposing. 00:15:23
On the historic part of the house to use wood windows, which would be consistent with the original original windows which are not there right now, but and then on the addition, we're going to be using fiberglass windows, they actually look. 00:15:25
Exactly the same. 00:15:41
They're just made out of fiberglass than wood. I have pictures of of both of them in there and. 00:15:43
For for reasons of. 00:15:50
Longevity in this marine climate that we're in. 00:15:53
Umm. 00:15:57
They they'll be painted so, so they'll they'll be the same anyway. 00:15:58
The and that's. 00:16:05
You know we're using. 00:16:08
The composition shingles on the roof like we were before and. 00:16:10
I think that pretty much SO covers it. Or any questions? 00:16:16
Tell me about the windows again that you said fiberglass, so the fiberglass would be in the in the new portion the that not in the historic portion. The historic portion would we would be using wood windows. 00:16:21
They actually, I figured with the is the manufacturer. 00:16:33
Doug, they manufactured you, remember? 00:16:38
It it's, it's, it says on the, on the, but it says here, yeah. 00:16:43
Anyway, they're they're fiberglass window. 00:16:47
Looks exactly like there would window. 00:16:50
They're, I mean they're the profiles are the same et cetera, et cetera. 00:16:53
But the owner would prefer to use in the new portion. 00:16:57
The fiberglass windows. 00:17:01
OK. 00:17:03
Really. And then only, like with you. The only thing I was kind of questioning when he was talking about the. 00:17:14
The windows. 00:17:19
OK. 00:17:21
All right. 00:17:23
Have a seat. 00:17:24
Be close in case we need you. 00:17:25
Do we have any more comments from the studio audience? 00:17:29
Seeing none, let's look at the online audience. 00:17:37
We have one hand raised. 00:17:42
Lisa Gianni. 00:17:43
Thank you. My concerns are with archaeology still and and and and the historic consultants. 00:17:49
Comments at the last. 00:17:59
Meeting where this was discussed and and. 00:18:00
Contesting that. 00:18:04
My saying that there are archaeological resources in the area. Pacific Groves entire coastal zone is an archaeologically sensitive area, meaning that meaning there is a likelihood of archaeological resources being exposed during excavation, also referred to as ground disturbance. The the draft permit for this project provides only inadvertent discovery language in the conditions of approval to protect cultural resources. A term which refers to archaeological and tribal cultural. 00:18:05
Resources refers to archaeological and tribal resources. 00:18:35
Well, it's historical resources. Inadvertent discovery language means work must be stopped until an archaeologist can come to evaluate the resources. If construction workers happen to notice and recognize archaeological artifacts or ancestral remains, there will be no professional monitors on site during ground disturbing work as the conditions are now written, there will be no archaeologist and no tribal monitor. It is inappropriate not to have even a tribal monitor in an. 00:18:39
Area of the coastal zone that has a concentration of mapped archaeological sites, including one on the same block of the next street Over There is a map of all the map sites in this area of PG and Gary Briskin's 2005 report for an infrastructure project for the city, which I sent you a screenshot of the cover of and which should be on file with the city. Due to confidentiality issues, I did not send HRC the full report which Gary Bruschini shared with me and a council member in 2007. 00:19:09
17 The year before Doctor Bruschini died. Of course, not all sites have been mapped, and previous disturbance or failure to discover artifacts during a site survey do not rule out. 00:19:40
The potential for cultural resources. 00:19:50
This is the ancestral homeland of the alone Costanoan, Esselen Nation, or ocean as the initials. 00:19:53
Is responsible for a very large area of the county. 00:20:13
Please require a condition of approval for tribal monitoring to carry out Pacific Groves local coastal program and out of respect for the indigent for the indigenous people whose land here was taken from their ancestors by the colonizers. And I sent you kind of late today the the e-mail I had sent you last month when I expected this to be heard and I I realized that. 00:20:17
You might not have had that included in your packet. Again, I don't know, but I do hope that you will provide for tribal monitoring. 00:20:42
During ground disturbance. Thank you. 00:20:52
Thank you. 00:20:56
Anyone else? 00:20:57
Invite Inga, Lawrence and Damen to speak. 00:21:08
Thank you. 00:21:13
Once again, I'm going to completely agree with Lisa. 00:21:15
And say that the city has a draft report of our. 00:21:18
Archaeological resources Policy. 00:21:23
Somewhere in there that's still, after two or three years, has not come to council to be heard and for public disclosure and then we need this policy. 00:21:26
And. 00:21:37
I would. 00:21:39
Hope that the historic Resources Board Committee would completely protect. 00:21:40
These resources. 00:21:47
In lieu of the city. 00:21:49
Having their policy, their full policy, in place. 00:21:51
Thank you very much. 00:21:56
Thank you. 00:21:58
Again. 00:22:00
Anyone else? 00:22:02
Telephone. 00:22:07
Ending in 864. 00:22:09
We allow them to talk. 00:22:12
864. 00:22:34
You're unmuted. 00:22:37
I see we have another one. Why don't we go to that one and come back to this and try again? 00:22:47
OK, I'm going to allow. 00:22:53
Travis to speak. 00:22:55
I would just like to echo. 00:23:00
Bella residents and that one Lisa and engage. 00:23:03
A big concerns about. 00:23:07
Archaeological. 00:23:10
Issues and also chemical situations as far as the materials that are used so close to the ocean. 00:23:11
Given it's 2023, it's it's kind of important to like. 00:23:19
Really. 00:23:24
Be relevant and up to date with what's going on and and what could could potentially like you know happen down the road if we just put something in place permanently. 00:23:25
That could leak into. 00:23:34
Our city and like just if if if, we would be like. 00:23:37
Involved in that process, which would be a shame, so I would like to echo those. 00:23:41
Before thank you. 00:23:45
We have no more hands raised. 00:23:50
And we go back to the other one that we missed and try them again. 00:23:53
They're not. 00:23:58
They're going attending anymore. 00:24:00
OK. 00:24:02
All right, then we'll bring it to the committee here. 00:24:05
Do we have any? 00:24:09
We have any comments? 00:24:13
Committee. 00:24:16
There's a committee. 00:24:18
Really. 00:24:20
I think your mic is off. 00:24:27
I'm sorry. 00:24:30
There we go now as a committee member A. 00:24:31
I'm not sure what. 00:24:34
We can do about. 00:24:35
Having somebody there? 00:24:38
On site. 00:24:40
I mean, we recommend that and. 00:24:41
Yes. 00:24:44
Who said this? 00:24:48
Shambles. 00:24:54
No, I didn't know. I know when they do Rd. works, there's there's somebody there permanently looking at, yeah, yes. And I assume the city authorises that. 00:24:57
But what is it our duty to? 00:25:06
To authorize this if we think it's pertinent. 00:25:09
There. 00:25:12
If we want to authorize something over and above what the city requires. 00:25:13
Then yes, we need to say so. But. 00:25:18
If the. 00:25:21
Ordinary. 00:25:24
Umm. 00:25:26
In the conditions for approval, there's a. 00:25:30
One of the conditions has to do with this speaks to this. Maybe we can revisit it. 00:25:34
Can you call it up and? 00:25:40
Read it for us, please. 00:25:43
You want the draft, AP read too? Yeah, I believe at the last meeting this was discussed and it was just brought up that if any artifacts were to be found. 00:25:47
That then the the calls would be made, but it was brought up by. 00:25:57
Some of the callers that. 00:26:01
This isn't within our purview to discuss this, and it's that handbook that I'm not familiar with and this is not. 00:26:03
Something that I know that much about in terms of what is what is our responsibility. 00:26:09
But in terms of. 00:26:14
What was sent in by letters and citizens concerns is that being close to the ocean and and in the archaeological site that is in. 00:26:17
And. 00:26:24
You know, this just came up around the Noah building in terms of looking at that, So I think it deserves some credence to pay attention to it. 00:26:25
Yeah, I know we've talked about it a. 00:26:37
Just slightly not a lot, but I don't know. 00:26:39
That that is, is. 00:26:43
In our jurisdiction though. 00:26:45
What about? I guess I have a question for staff. What about the handbook that was mentioned? 00:26:49
And that. 00:26:54
I mean, then of course couldn't be sent in because that would be in violation of policy. But can can you address that handbook that one of the callers mentioned, I believe, Miss Gianni? 00:26:56
Did you mean the Archaeo report? I guess so, yes. Ohh, OK. Yeah, those are confidential and then I believe that. 00:27:06
This was addressed in the agenda report. 00:27:15
Umm. 00:27:19
But is it related to this? I mean, are we tasked to pay attention to this being an archaeological site as referenced in that? 00:27:20
And book, I don't know that was what the caller addressed that this is something that should be addressed in terms of archaeological. So, so the report is written by a. 00:27:27
Certified Professional. 00:27:38
OK, who? 00:27:41
Who addresses the archaeological issues and they have been addressed. 00:27:43
In the report. 00:27:46
And it's mentioned in your agenda report with the, Yeah, yeah. And then it's in our draft architectural permit. 00:27:47
Cultural and or archaeological artifacts and Cultural, archaeological and important discovery. There's two. 00:27:56
Conditions of approval and the draft Agenda architectural permit attached in your Agenda report. Sounds like we need to hear them again. 00:28:03
You want me to read you? Read them. OK, please, yes. 00:28:12
Condition of approval #9 Archaeological and inadvertent discovery. 00:28:17
When human remains or artifacts are exposed, the Health and Safety Code. 00:28:21
Dash 7050.5 requires that no further excavation or disturbance occurs in the area and that the county coroner is called so that the coroner can verify that the remains are not subject to medical jurisprudence. 00:28:25
Within 24 hours of notification. 00:28:38
The coroner calls the Native American Heritage Commission. If the remains are known or thought to be Native American, the Native American Heritage Commission selects the most likely descendant. 00:28:41
From a rotating list. 00:28:50
And then? 00:28:52
MLD has 24 hours to respond. All work will halt within a 50 yard radius until an osteologist can examine the remains. 00:28:53
And a treatment plan for any said remains has been provided. 00:29:01
According to the MLD. 00:29:05
Condition Approval #10 Cultural and or archaeological artifacts. 00:29:08
If such artifacts are unexpectedly discovered during ground disturbing activities. 00:29:12
Work shall be halted until the item can be evaluated by a qualified professional archaeologist. 00:29:18
If the find is determined to be significant, appropriate mitigation will be formulated with the approval of the lead agency. 00:29:23
And implemented prior to we commencement of work. 00:29:30
Thank you. 00:29:34
So the alternative would be to have. 00:29:37
Somebody while they're doing excavation to have people there all the time on site. 00:29:40
Yes, to do a survey, to survey as it continues the works continuing which is not required by the city. 00:29:46
And I think what we have is quite enough. 00:29:55
In my opinion. 00:29:59
And most of these lots. 00:30:00
In my experience, I've been. 00:30:04
Devoid of any serious. 00:30:07
Historic resources. 00:30:10
And the fact that. 00:30:14
Gary Gianni. 00:30:18
Yeah. 00:30:20
Can't remember his name. 00:30:21
The archaeologist. 00:30:24
Proceeding there we are. Thank you. 00:30:26
Yeah. 00:30:30
I know that you know it is. 00:30:37
From that no discussion. It is very close to the area that was by named Indian troops. And boy I I hesitate to say this because I was not very knowledgeable at the time, but I'm only you know flew few blocks from the ocean and one time I did find. 00:30:39
A bone. And I did not know what I know now and I'm my face is turning white and red at the same time. And if I had known that, I would have done more due diligence. But this is kind of putting people on the honor you know, system. 00:30:56
To say if they do find something then they will report it, which would slow down work which would stock with construction. 00:31:12
I don't know if we can meet a halfway point here that maybe during just the initial digging that someone might be called because it is so close to the ocean. 00:31:18
And areas so close to this, the epsilon and the. 00:31:27
I don't know which tribes I. 00:31:31
Excuse me for not knowing them well. The Alani tribe I believe and other tribes as well. 00:31:33
I think it's important to have some sensitivity and I do not want to burden the the homeowner and the architect with too much. I can understand that that's a lot to ask as well, but can we meet a halfway point for at least the initial? 00:31:37
Umm. 00:31:51
Excavation or some somewhere in the process. I think that that's within our right to do that to to ask for that. 00:31:52
I think what we have already. 00:32:02
And the conditions for approval is a halfway is a very reasonable halfway. 00:32:04
With the honor system and I I somewhat yeah with the honor system because I the owners mentioned last time I think it was that. 00:32:10
The spokesperson saying, well, if we found something we'd report it, that was how it was brought up. 00:32:20
I just think just in the initial stages that would be a safety point. 00:32:26
And it is. 00:32:31
Very close to, you know, this land that I heard discussed endlessly during that night of Noah, so. 00:32:33
That's what I would say, and I also defer to my other. 00:32:39
Committee members to their appoint their their opinion, but you also were present at the NOAA meeting well. 00:32:43
Maybe. 00:32:49
You were? 00:32:50
Rick, but I I do want to. 00:32:51
To honor our tribes who've been here and and the the people who came before us. And and I don't want to burden the homeowners. So I. 00:32:54
I think. 00:33:00
That, at least in the initial stages to have someone present to just have that safety point is what I would like. 00:33:01
And I also commend the. 00:33:09
The owners were coming back today because I I really like the changes that I've seen. I think a lot of effort has been done and it's not missed on me and I'm certain on the committee members, but I can't speak for them. 00:33:10
So that's where I go with this. 00:33:22
The historic consultant that we have, Dana Supernova Z is. 00:33:24
Is a qualified professional and he has done some. 00:33:29
Poking around on the lot. How much? I don't know. I wish you were here. It would be nice. 00:33:35
And I did hear him speak before, but that does not. 00:33:47
Call my mind. 00:33:49
Is the. 00:33:52
Present in our. 00:33:55
Telephone. 00:33:59
Whenever you call. 00:34:01
1916. 00:34:12
Yeah. 00:34:15
I'm going to allow 864 to speak. 00:34:15
Hello, this is Dana. Can you hear me? 00:34:29
Yes. 00:34:32
Hi, Rick, this is Dana Sperno. It's. 00:34:33
Historic Resource Associates and this will have a few comments to make. 00:34:37
In regards to the archaeology. 00:34:41
The. 00:34:43
Past protocols for the past. 00:34:44
Five years or more have been to conduct a phase literature search. 00:34:47
Followed by a phase one. 00:34:53
Initial study and in certain cases of phase two. 00:34:55
In the case of this property, a phase one was carried out. 00:34:59
And the results were negative and that was followed by a phase two. 00:35:04
Where? 00:35:08
Excavation units. 00:35:09
Were performed in various locations. 00:35:11
Locations within the parcel. 00:35:14
And there was absolutely no evidence of any cultural. 00:35:17
Meaning Native American artifacts. 00:35:21
Or fracture rock lithics bones. 00:35:24
Uh. 00:35:27
That were discovered. 00:35:28
It's basically sand. 00:35:30
Course, course, Sand. And the sand was. 00:35:32
Uh, they're not containing any cultural materials. 00:35:36
Within the excavation units. 00:35:39
I was pretty much, you know, indigenous and common to the area. 00:35:42
That's the normal procedure. A B52 was passed in the California State legislature. 00:35:47
To address some of the concerns that were brought up. 00:35:53
And. 00:35:57
In the case of archaeology, generally speaking, phase one and phase if if artifacts are found during the phase two. 00:35:58
Then clearly there would be a monitor in Archaeological Monitor. 00:36:06
And a Native American. 00:36:11
Monitor present during excavation. 00:36:13
But the general protocol has been that if there are no if, there is no evidence. 00:36:16
Now it's found after a phase two that. 00:36:21
Depending on you know location. 00:36:25
That Native American monitor and Oregon Archaeological monitor wouldn't be necessary. 00:36:28
I think the the danger that the city falls into is. 00:36:34
Do you require everyone to have a monitor present? 00:36:38
When there is no evidence of artifacts or evidence of cultural resources within a parcel. 00:36:42
Assuming that somebody has looked at whether it's me or another archaeologist. 00:36:48
I think that's something the city has to look at really carefully. 00:36:52
Um, other than other than that, I wanted to make sure that. 00:36:56
It's understood that a phase two was carried out. 00:37:00
And that I am aware of the archaeological resources that are nearby and those many of those were initially discovered by Varshini and recorded. 00:37:03
In various. 00:37:12
Confidential survey documents. 00:37:15
So that that's really all I have to say and I just want to. 00:37:18
Make it clear what what occurred out there and what was found or not found. 00:37:22
Thank you. 00:37:27
Thank you, that's a big help. 00:37:28
Um. 00:37:34
My own feeling is that. 00:37:36
That's enough. 00:37:38
We can't can't require every single person on every single lot within that. 00:37:40
Coastal zone. 00:37:47
To go through these extreme measures and I think. 00:37:49
I agree. They've done everything that was required of them and. 00:37:54
They found nothing, so. 00:37:58
I think we should just go ahead and. 00:38:00
And OK that. 00:38:02
Part of it. 00:38:04
I agree to and I also. 00:38:05
Think the plans are? 00:38:08
You've done a a good job with the plans on preserving the original house, so. 00:38:10
I'm. 00:38:16
That's how I feel. 00:38:17
Do you want to make a motion? 00:38:19
Yes, I'd like to make a motion that we approve the plans as presented. 00:38:22
Umm. 00:38:28
Anything else I need to say? 00:38:29
I don't think so. I'll second it. 00:38:31
OK. 00:38:33
And we have a. 00:38:35
Member Greening. 00:38:38
Member, Vice Chair Steers. 00:38:42
Hi. 00:38:45
Member. 00:38:47
Please. 00:38:48
Member Grantis, aye. 00:38:51
Motion passes 4 ayes. 00:38:54
0 nays and two recused. 00:38:57
Thank you. 00:39:00
So we. 00:39:05
You're going. 00:39:08
Call the other people back in, I suppose. 00:39:09
Beginners are good to go. 00:39:20
Ohh. 00:39:23
He's been a busy guy. 00:39:26
Our number is. 00:39:28
OK, now we're on to item 9B. 00:39:39
And architectural permit for 155 15th St. And do we have a staff report? 00:39:43
Yes, we do. 00:39:50
Good afternoon. 00:39:52
Chair, committee members and the public. I am Laurel O'halloran, project planner for the 155 15th St. architectural permit #23-O17. 00:39:54
This item was heard before the HRC at the April meeting. 00:40:05
And was requested that some design changes be. 00:40:11
Applied. 00:40:15
The existing home is on the City of Pacific Groves Historical Resources Inventory. 00:40:17
And the applicant provided a phase two report from a qualified architectural historian. 00:40:21
From December 2022, which? Found the proposed changes to be consistent with the Secretary of Interior Standards for Restoration and Rehabilitation. 00:40:27
The applicant has revised the plans and is not creating a foundation. 00:40:36
Or an Adu. 00:40:41
They proposed to build a new 262 square foot first floor addition. 00:40:43
And a new 200 flower. I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you. Could you repeat that last couple of sentences, please? 00:40:47
The applicant has revised the plans. 00:40:52
And is not creating a foundation. 00:40:55
Or an AU. 00:40:58
The project proposes to build a new 262 square foot first floor addition. 00:41:01
And a new 262 square foot second floor addition. 00:41:07
And to construct a 171 square foot. 00:41:11
Second story, wooden deck at the back of the house. 00:41:14
The Pose Residence meets all applicable requirements of the zoning code and requires no exceptions. 00:41:18
Alright, it qualifies for class one and a Class 31 sequel exemption. 00:41:25
This concludes my staff report and the architect is present and available for questions. 00:41:29
Thank you very much. 00:41:35
And now I'd like to hear from the. 00:41:37
Applicant, Owner, Architect. 00:41:39
Hi, I'm Bill Mcferrin, the architect on this project. 00:41:43
We from the last meeting, the owners decided not to do the AD U, so we're not lifting the house. 00:41:47
The house has a a relatively new foundation on it, so we're not being touching any. Literally not touching anything other than. 00:41:53
Maintenance and repair on the original. 00:42:01
Portion of the historic house. We are doing the addition on the back. It's a two-story addition. We are, we are using the existing Ridge height, we're extending that for the addition and we are. 00:42:05
Then. 00:42:21
Creating effectively dormers to help. 00:42:22
Increase the square footage or the usable square footage. 00:42:27
On the 2nd floor, over and that's all over the addition, which is 14 foot six from the original house. Back of the original house, we are keeping a deck on, she said. The 2nd floor deck, it's. 00:42:30
It's a. It's a first floor deck, but it's 5 feet in the air, which is what the existing deck is. 00:42:45
But we are pulling it to the five foot setback from the back property line which the existing one literally is 2 feet from the from that property line. 00:42:51
Again, we are asked to be more specific on materials we're doing, the plywood board and bat siding. 00:43:02
To. 00:43:09
Be in character with the existing board and bat siding, but look different. 00:43:10
We are doing wood windows everywhere and we are doing the the. 00:43:15
What they call the true divided light now so that you will actually see the the millions on the outside. 00:43:20
Umm. 00:43:25
And that's pretty much some of it. 00:43:26
Any questions? 00:43:30
I only had I had one comment. I'm very pleased that you're not raising the house up. My only question was the dormers. When on your proposed W drawings you don't see the 2nd floor dormers. I was just sort of. 00:43:33
Commenting about that because. 00:43:46
You don't because they're way back. That's the reason I didn't put them on. I mean if you if you put, if I put them on that elevation, it would look like they were part. You would you would really see them from that elevation. You won't. You don't think so? OK. 00:43:48
Thank you. 00:44:02
Other questions? 00:44:04
I have a question on the material side you say here front porch railing. 00:44:06
But there is no front. Well, not, not. 00:44:12
Deck railing. 00:44:15
Where would this go on the deck? 00:44:17
On the on the back desk, so, OK, yeah, I saw the front. There's no front. That was a question. Yeah. 00:44:20
OK. 00:44:25
Other questions? 00:44:27
I just said I see. Thank you, you know, for not raising it up. That addressed a lot of my concerns, my personal concerns and I, you know. 00:44:30
Just. 00:44:37
I'm glad it worked out. Yeah. Yeah, it was. It was raising a lot of issues with a lot of things. So thank you. I love this house. Yes. You addressed all the concerns we had. So thank you. Thank you. Yes. 00:44:38
OK. 00:44:51
OK. I'll open to public comment. Do we have anybody present that would like to comment? Please come up then. 00:44:53
We were here last at the last meeting and wanted to say our congratulations as well to the design we think they've incorporated. 00:45:09
Quite a few things that were at issue for the neighbors. 00:45:16
Did you say your name please? Ohh, it's Shayla Sullivan. 00:45:20
And I'm on the 14th St. one of the neighbors there. 00:45:24
And umm. 00:45:28
I just had some comments on another issue. 00:45:30
Would you please hand those to our staff member? Ohh, Sorry. 00:45:32
Thank you. 00:45:37
When you finish, ohh, whenever. 00:45:38
All right, anyway. 00:45:42
You may or may not be aware that earlier this month the property had a break. 155 15th St. had a break in its water line. 00:45:44
Which created considerable. 00:45:55
Flooding to the house on 14th St. Directly behind it, 154 14th St. 00:45:58
Actually resulting in thousands of dollars of damage. They have hardwood floors. 00:46:04
The water went through, They had a disaster recovery. Have to come through and and do this. 00:46:10
Now while. 00:46:14
My understanding is that the homeowner was not one that was responsible. Calam actually was doing some flushing of a line. 00:46:16
And the line broke. 00:46:22
Umm. 00:46:24
The concern there is that it was at the age of the homes Pipes. Again, these are old homes. 00:46:26
Contributed somewhat to that breaking of that pipe and the damage that was incurred. 00:46:32
Over the years, if we look at the three homes that are the two that are adjacent and the one directly behind now. 00:46:39
On 14th St. that are to this property. 00:46:46
All of us have suffered flood damage at one time or another from the houses on 15th St. 00:46:49
So for example, on my home, which is directly Kitty corner if you will, behind what used to be gatherings. 00:46:56
We actually had sewage lines that came through and it was $40,000 in excess of $40,000. 00:47:03
In cost and mitigate that cleanup. 00:47:10
The house on the other side of the street also had water breakage. 00:47:14
So the problem that we have right now is that. 00:47:18
The city Pacific Grove. 00:47:24
Went ahead and put a sewer line down 15th St. about 8 to 10 years ago. 00:47:26
Prior to that and what's happened is all of the houses on 15th. 00:47:32
Have a transverse lateral that connects in 14th St. which is how the old ones were built. 00:47:35
But then the city was kind enough to put in. 00:47:40
A new line. A new main sewer lane. 00:47:43
Main 4 15th St. and the street. 00:47:46
However, where the issue comes up is that not all the houses connected to that sewer main. 00:47:50
So we still have the lateral lines going through the 14th St. properties. 00:47:58
And it's my understanding and again I can't haven't been able to confirm this, but it's my understanding that the property at 155 15th St. 00:48:02
Is one of those that has not connected. 00:48:10
To the sewer main on 15th. 00:48:13
So given the age of the properties and given the problems that we've had consistently with the homes on 15th. 00:48:16
What we would like to ask is that it's a condition of approval for the building. 00:48:24
That there be requirement that the property be connected to the 15th St. sewer line. 00:48:29
In addition to that, the other thing we would like to request is that his condition is that during construction. 00:48:38
Because of the slope of the property if they're doing anything around the water lines things like that that that protection for this properties on 14th St. 00:48:43
That some sort of protection be put into place? 00:48:52
During the construction. 00:48:55
Source. 00:48:58
OK. Thank you. Thank you. 00:48:59
Do we have other public comment present? 00:49:08
Do we have any virtual public comment? 00:49:11
We have. 00:49:17
One hand raised Lisa Chiani. 00:49:18
Thank you. I'm I'm very pleased by the reduction in the scope of this project and and and my only question is about the large tree in front. I don't know. 00:49:24
If there's any in the back. 00:49:36
Umm. 00:49:38
But. 00:49:39
Uh. 00:49:40
The. 00:49:42
Protection of any. 00:49:43
Significant trees. 00:49:47
Should be I mean, because that's a really tight space to work in. Should be with fencing outside the drip line of the trees. I and I I don't think you can do. You can't do full. 00:49:50
Circumference there but. 00:50:03
What often is done is just putting slats. 00:50:05
Or even just that orange plastic snow fencing around. 00:50:09
The. 00:50:14
The trunk of the tree. 00:50:16
And and so that does not. 00:50:18
Provide significant protection from. 00:50:21
Weight on the Weight of construction materials or equipment on the. 00:50:26
Umm. 00:50:31
And the route critical root zone of the of the tree. 00:50:33
And. 00:50:37
Or the canopy for that matter. 00:50:38
Umm. 00:50:40
So. So I would hope that there's sufficient. 00:50:41
Protection for the existing tree or trees in in the conditions of approval for the project. 00:50:46
Umm. 00:50:53
Thank you. 00:50:54
Yeah. 00:50:56
Thanks. 00:50:57
Thank you. 00:50:59
Do we have any other? 00:51:02
Public comment. 00:51:04
No more hands raised. 00:51:15
Alright, I'll close public comment, bring it back. 00:51:17
To the committee for discussion. 00:51:20
I don't think that, umm, as far as the pipes and all the stuff are under their house and that I think that goes through the city. 00:51:24
I mean, I when I had my house done, that was one of the requirements that I had to put in a new line. But it was through the city, it wasn't through. So I I don't think that's something we need, should deal with. 00:51:31
Yeah. This is a design review board. It's Rick speaking to the MIC, please. 00:51:45
Can't hear you. 00:51:49
Yeah. 00:51:52
And regarding the trees, some of those, one of those trees is so big that probably the roots go underneath the house. But if the house isn't being. 00:51:56
Expanded or raised and the foundation is being is not being touched. 00:52:05
Then. 00:52:11
We don't really touch on that. 00:52:14
Issue either. 00:52:16
The tree can continue to grow, presumably. 00:52:18
I think. 00:52:22
A tree report. 00:52:24
You know, by a. 00:52:26
Arborist or somebody like that would be a good idea, but. 00:52:28
We don't want the tree roots to get so big that they lift up the house or anything like that, but. 00:52:34
Seriously. 00:52:41
I think it would be a good idea, but beyond that I think the. 00:52:43
If I remember from the past meeting, the owner said that they did have somebody that that that addressed the tree situation but. 00:52:46
That was considering that it was going to have the the lifting of the property and I think now that it's not being lifted, it's not so much of A concern. I have a big tree outside of my home and it was only a concern when I did some sewer repairs. So that was when it called into question the root system and I was able to. 00:52:53
To work around that and I I agree with the the other committee member that. 00:53:13
I don't believe that the the water system and all that is within our. 00:53:18
Our purview so. 00:53:24
I don't believe it is. 00:53:26
Linus. 00:53:28
No, I'd like to approve the plans. I think they've. 00:53:29
Addressed all our issues and they preserved the. 00:53:32
The house in its original state, so. 00:53:35
That's my. 00:53:38
Take. So my only comment is about the trees. 00:53:40
They're very, very big and they are right in front of the house and I just hope they will be adequately protected because we keep losing trees all over town and it's it's a shame. So I just hope that they're adequately protected. I think the plans are wonderful. I think it's going to restore that house, which will be really good. 00:53:46
Umm. 00:54:07
I I think that. 00:54:09
Obviously tree protection is important. Likewise our guest asks for protection, went on. This would be on the east side for protection from the houses on 14th St. which. 00:54:11
I hope that will happen. 00:54:24
And then the sewer line issue, I again, I'm at a loss on that, but. 00:54:26
May I ask you, are you planning to replace any of the the pipes and the equipment that are currently there? 00:54:32
Pipe, definitely. I know one of the requirements that the city has when you get your building permit is that you have the sewer line videoed. 00:54:42
And to see the condition of it and replace if necessary. 00:54:50
All right, that answers that question. 00:54:56
I do want to commend you too. You you listen to us. When I looked at the drawings and I took out the one from a couple of months ago, I thought. 00:54:59
First of all, I was delighted to see that the house wasn't going to be raised. 00:55:06
I'm I have the feeling it's a bit fragile. 00:55:10
So I think what you're doing is is probably the best thing for the house. 00:55:13
And I you listen to what we said about the the materials for the for the exterior, so. 00:55:18
I I felt good. I felt that. 00:55:25
You know, we asked. And you heard and. 00:55:27
I think this is going to be a nice improvement for a house that's. 00:55:30
Really in the sad repair at the moment I am sad state. I mean it's. 00:55:33
I've I've noticed that through the years, just kind of getting more and more kind of closed in with bushes and vines and whatnot, so. 00:55:39
I'm really happy to see this house. 00:55:46
And I'll look forward to seeing. 00:55:48
The house get improved in the next few months. 00:55:50
So with that, any other comments or questions for the architect? I've been thinking. I really think that an arborist report on those two trees in the front. 00:55:53
And compliance with whatever they require is. 00:56:04
Perhaps a? 00:56:08
Condition of approval. 00:56:10
That we should. 00:56:12
That we should apply. 00:56:16
Because they're. 00:56:18
The. 00:56:20
That Redwood tree is humongous. It's huge and the the root structure underneath must be immense. 00:56:22
The other tree is pretty big too, and the roots probably go underneath the paving and the sidewalk and. 00:56:29
And underneath the house as well. And I think some. 00:56:35
Attention should be paid to. 00:56:41
Would you like to make a motion with that? 00:56:43
Being part of the condition. 00:56:45
Being a condition. 00:56:47
OK. 00:56:50
I'd like to approve the design of the house. 00:56:51
As submitted. 00:56:55
With the additional. 00:56:58
Condition. 00:57:01
That a tree report from a arborist. 00:57:02
The. 00:57:08
Written and complied with. 00:57:14
Do I have a second I second? 00:57:17
Any further questions or discussion? 00:57:21
May we have a roll call vote please? 00:57:24
Roll call, Vice Chair steers. 00:57:27
Aye. 00:57:30
Member Bickett. 00:57:32
Member Grannis. 00:57:36
Aye. 00:57:37
Member, please. 00:57:39
Member Greening. 00:57:42
Chair Anton. 00:57:45
Aye. 00:57:46
Motion passes. 00:57:49
Six Eyes. 00:57:51
0 nays. 00:57:52
Thank you. Thank you. One vacancy. 00:57:55
Thank you. 00:57:58
OK, the next item, forget the number here. 00:58:01
Item 9. 00:58:06
See. 00:58:08
For 312 1st St. and May we begin with a staff report. 00:58:09
Thank you Chair Anton and committee members. The project site is located at 312 1st St. in the R2 Zoning District. 00:58:15
The property is a 7200 square foot interior lot located between Laurel Ave. and Pine Ave. 00:58:23
And it fronts both 1st and 2nd streets. 00:58:30
The site is developed with a 2090 square foot. 00:58:33
One story residence that is listed on the city's Historic Resource Inventory. 00:58:36
And the surrounding neighborhood is comprised of a mix of one and two-story single family residences. 00:58:40
The applicant proposes additions to the residents as follows. 440 square foot attached garage. 00:58:46
151 square foot, first floor edition. 00:58:53
And a 400 square foot second story addition. 00:58:56
A phase two historic assessment was prepared for the project and found that the project complies with the standard for rehabilitation. 00:59:00
The existing structure complies with applicable development standards, including maximum floor area, allowed height and rear setback, maximum building coverage. 00:59:08
And maximum site coverage. 00:59:17
It does not currently conform with the front and side yard setback requirements, but the proposed project would not exacerbate those nonconformities. 00:59:20
And as proposed, an existing nonconformity, which is the off street parking requirement, would be remedied by the inclusion of the garage. 00:59:28
The project is categorically exempt from Sequoia under sections for historic resources and existing facilities. 00:59:37
And as you know, this item was initially heard at the March 2nd and April 26th meetings of the HRC. 00:59:45
In response to concerns from committee members about the scale of the addition. 00:59:51
The layout of the garage and driveway, roof, slope and positioning of windows. The applicant has submitted A revised plan set with a new garage orientation. 00:59:55
And modified Second Story edition and roof slope. 01:00:05
This concludes the staff presentation. I'm available for questions and I know that the applicant is here as well. Thank you. 01:00:09
Thank you very much and we'd like to hear from the applicant or. 01:00:16
One of your. 01:00:21
People. 01:00:23
No, I I'd, I'd appreciate it if you. 01:00:25
Speak to us now. 01:00:28
My name is Kevin Toman. 01:00:38
And thank you for your time. 01:00:39
You can hear before, and by golly, it's our goal to solve this today. 01:00:41
And so. 01:00:45
As staff mentioned are clear goal with. 01:00:47
The the version of this project that you have in front of you was to address every concern that was raised by the HRC at our last meeting. 01:00:52
OK, one of the concerns was the height of the building, the height of the addition. We reduced that and our motivation with that originally was simply to go ahead and keep that. 01:01:01
Keep the. 01:01:11
Roof pitches consistent with the older home. However, based on on your feedback, we went ahead and dropped that from a 7.75 and 12 down to a six and twelve pitch. 01:01:12
Thereby reducing the foot the the height by just a little bit over a foot. 01:01:23
And we also one of the concerns was the window windows, plural, that at that point overlooked our neighbor, our uphill neighbor. So we revised downward the number of windows. We now just have one in place and that still height is at 5 1/2 feet. 01:01:29
OK, so that we get the we get the advantage of of solar gain, but there is no overview of the neighbors of the neighbors yard. 01:01:46
If we revise, we also revised the the height of the garage and so we've done everything we can to comply with the suggestions. 01:01:56
Or the mandates that were made during our last conversation? 01:02:05
Things that I would like to point out would be that at this point in time. 01:02:09
This is in fact the smallest home. 01:02:13
On that on that block. 01:02:16
This is, in fact, the only one story home. 01:02:18
On that block. 01:02:21
And so I understand the the thought of building a second a second story addition that is placed as far back on the property as as possible. 01:02:23
And in the agenda that I provided you with and that that we're looking at here. 01:02:35
Of projected. 01:02:41
You can see that from the front of that house. There is no evidence you cannot see that second floor addition. 01:02:42
You you can't see it. 01:02:49
From the northern, from the uphill side. 01:02:51
You can't see it. You know the any perspective of that addition because of the presence of a large conifer in that area. Large tree. 01:02:54
From the downhill side downhill property line you can't see any evidence of the of that addition by virtue of a a role of of Cypress planet at the hedge line at the at the property line there. 01:03:02
And so between the existing vegetation. 01:03:16
The slope of that property. 01:03:20
Our surveyor calculated that the that the 2nd floor addition would only be visible from about a 20 to 25 degree radius view. 01:03:22
In every other direction that is blocked either by existing homes or the vegetation that is present. 01:03:32
And so, my clear goal, I've listened, I've been. I've enjoyed this process immensely. 01:03:38
That's good. 01:03:46
And I can only wonder how developers do this. I'm not a developer. 01:03:49
I'm a veterinarian. 01:03:53
My family, my wife's family's been here since 1920. 01:03:55
I I will work with you. 01:04:00
You know if, if there are conditions that we can meet today. 01:04:02
So that we can solve this and move forward on both sides. 01:04:06
I'm here and and the smart folks in the room, Hunter Eldridge. My, I want my consulting architect. 01:04:09
Can see the the historic consultant are are here for your questions as well. 01:04:16
Thank you, thank you, thank you. 01:04:21
Before you leave, are there any questions directly right now? I have one question I appreciate, I really appreciate the consolidation that you've done of taking away that second floor deck and moving things around. I appreciate that. I'm curious about the garage, I I think you changed the direction of the garage to try and. 01:04:24
Keep its view from the street. However, I'm still concerned about people being able to get into that garage. 01:04:42
Making that turn in, which was the problem we had before. So I'm just curious if you've because I can't tell from the drawings if that's been analyzed. 01:04:49
Taking an SUV up there and seeing if you can get it in. 01:04:56
It's the driveway as. 01:05:00
Our submitted last time around is a straight. 01:05:03
Here goes straight into the garage. 01:05:06
So we've pivoted the the garage access by 90 degrees so that the entrance to the garage is in fact parallel with the street. 01:05:09
I I think you're looking. She's looking OK. I didn't see this drawing. OK. Thank you. 01:05:20
Any other questions right now? 01:05:25
So I'll ask you to stand by, but thank you. 01:05:28
Well, we'll see about that skating vibe, but thank you very much. I appreciate your time. 01:05:32
Thank you. Do we have any? 01:05:36
Comments from the audience. 01:05:40
That is present. 01:05:41
I am not seeing any. Do we have any virtual comments? 01:05:46
We have one hand raised. I'm gonna allow Travis to speak. 01:05:51
Ohh, yes. Thank you. I just had one question I heard in the intro. 01:05:58
Something about. 01:06:02
Front and side yard requirements not being met. Can someone explain that? I'm not quite sure what that means. 01:06:03
Through the chair. 01:06:15
Each residential district has set back requirements for for structures. The existing residence was built before those requirements were in place and so it does not meet the front and side yard setback. 01:06:17
But the proposed project would not. 01:06:28
Create an additional nonconformity. It would keep it the way it is. 01:06:32
OK. Thank you. 01:06:36
Thank you. 01:06:37
Do we have other public comment virtually? 01:06:39
Wait, wait. 01:06:42
We have one more hand raised. 01:06:45
Jane Fleischman. 01:06:47
Allow her to speak. 01:06:50
Yes. Can you hear me OK? 01:06:52
Yes. 01:06:55
I didn't hear. Can you hear me OK? 01:06:57
Yes. 01:06:59
OK. 01:07:01
OK, so. 01:07:03
I think you you've all gotten a. 01:07:05
The the letter that I sent to the. 01:07:08
Committee members. 01:07:10
So try not to repeat. 01:07:11
That but. 01:07:13
It just still seems like this is too too big of an addition. 01:07:15
For the block and my house is on 2nd St. which is. 01:07:19
Really. 01:07:23
Just spitting distance. 01:07:24
From this project and. 01:07:26
When Mr. Toman said that all the. 01:07:28
That his was the smallest. 01:07:30
Would be the smallest house on the. 01:07:32
On the block. 01:07:35
That doesn't take into account. 01:07:36
Everything on 2nd St. which are houses are really small. 01:07:38
547 square feet under 800 square feet. 01:07:42
You know, there's some. 01:07:46
Three or four of them like that. They're all single story. 01:07:48
And here's a second story. 01:07:51
Part of the reason the duplex is on 1st street are. 01:07:53
He counts them as two-story as is. 01:07:57
The slope of the hill is a little bit. 01:07:59
Steeper, I think than on on 2nd St. and. 01:08:01
The cars parked underneath. 01:08:04
So there there's only one story of living space. 01:08:07
Not technically true story. 01:08:11
Houses. 01:08:14
Condos or, you know, duplexes. 01:08:15
So I would, I would just also hope that the the little cottage gets. 01:08:17
You know. 01:08:22
You know, refurbished and. 01:08:24
Brought back to life and and doesn't just look like it, It's stuck onto a big. 01:08:26
You know, a big new addition because it seems like it is in danger of. 01:08:31
Losing its. 01:08:35
It's some. 01:08:37
Status as being a. 01:08:38
Structure of Merit, or whatever it's called. 01:08:41
And I understand there are about 1300 of those. 01:08:43
Historic homes in Pacific Grove, and they're going through them. 01:08:47
One by one, and there are about 100 that are in danger of coming off the list. 01:08:50
For various reasons, and mostly it's because people put. 01:08:55
Additions on them that make them not seem historic anymore, and I would just hate for that to happen in this instance. 01:08:58
And it seemed like it. 01:09:05
Even though it's the area neighborhood is zoned for. 01:09:07
Duplexes. 01:09:10
If he kept the house, the little house more separate and put. 01:09:11
Another unit behind it. 01:09:16
That wouldn't be so obvious. Wouldn't take away from the. 01:09:18
That 1888 Victorian. 01:09:21
That that would be preferable to the big barn like structure that I see when I look at the drawings. 01:09:24
We don't have any barns in our neighborhood anymore. 01:09:29
So it just doesn't seem like that big box really fits. 01:09:31
And you know, it's a really walkable neighborhood. We all meander up and down the streets, not just the street we happen to live on, but. 01:09:35
The streets around us, we find different ways, down to the water to. 01:09:43
Walk along the Rec Trail and. 01:09:47
We love. 01:09:49
Coming across little. 01:09:50
Beautiful little houses that have been fixed up and are old. 01:09:52
That's just the gym of living in Pacific Grove. 01:09:55
And I'd hate to lose that one. 01:09:58
In this project. 01:10:00
So I think that's the end of my comment. 01:10:02
Thank you. 01:10:06
We have any any other hands raised? 01:10:14
Are you not doing anything? 01:10:18
We have no more hands raised. Alright, I'll close the virtual comment. I will reopen for public comment. 01:10:23
Not exactly public comment, but. 01:10:30
Please come up. 01:10:32
It's it's not on Hunter. 01:10:42
Is that on? That's on. 01:10:45
Good afternoon, committee members. I'm Hunter Aldridge, my local architect. And again, I think I explained. 01:10:48
I'm not the architect of this project, but I did. 01:10:54
Watch Mr. Tom's first hearing, hearing and. 01:10:58
Had some empathy for the. 01:11:01
Resistance he received from some of the neighbors and I just offered to help him and that's and that's really all I'm doing today. 01:11:05
I think Mr. Tom did a good job of of explaining. 01:11:13
The concessions that have been made through the various iterations of the design. 01:11:17
Umm. 01:11:21
We have brought the height down, We have moved the proposed second story as far away from the historic cottage as possible. 01:11:22
Umm. 01:11:29
With them the other constraints of this property. 01:11:30
I think the existing nonconforming elements of the. 01:11:34
Historic cottage again as. 01:11:37
The the planning staff has explained we're not increasing that and that's that's everything that we're proposing is within the zoning ordinances. 01:11:42
Uh. 01:11:52
We're going with a. 01:11:53
Resawn plywood board and bat, which is I believe is appropriate, but it at the same time differentiates it from the cottage. 01:11:56
Wood sash windows to replace in the historic. 01:12:05
Cottage. 01:12:09
I believe we're doing everything in an appropriate manner and I've worked on a lot of the historic projects here in this town as I think you know, so I. 01:12:11
I'll just leave it at that. I I I think we've we've tried through various iterations to. 01:12:18
To bring this thing to a place where hopefully will be approved today. Thank you. Thank you. 01:12:24
All right. I'm going to close public comment and bring it back to the committee. 01:12:30
We've addressed 1 issue already, so who would like to speak? 01:12:36
Nobody will begin. That's alright. Please, Rick. 01:12:43
I like the fact that the historic house is far forward and is almost not touched at all. 01:12:48
And the the new things are in the back and they are much more subservient. I've been out there and it's true that a. 01:12:55
A larger addition in the back won't be seen so much because. 01:13:05
The. 01:13:11
Perspective of standing on the street and looking up at the house. The the addition in the back. 01:13:12
Is much less visible than it appears to be in these pictures. 01:13:21
I think they've. 01:13:27
Gone to considerable. 01:13:29
Umm. 01:13:33
Effort to. 01:13:34
Listen to our comments already and have. 01:13:37
Been kind enough to. 01:13:41
Modify the house appropriately and I think it's a good project. I like it and I. 01:13:44
I would like to approve it. 01:13:51
I agree. I think you know they've been here how many Times Now and. 01:13:54
We've sent them home with things that we would like to. 01:13:59
See and they always come back and do it and I don't think we have any really any other things to ask them to do so. 01:14:01
Umm. 01:14:09
I I feel we should approve it too. 01:14:10
Other comments now I agree and there's quite a few two-story homes in that area. I've walked around it. 01:14:14
A lot of times and I think it fits into that street well. 01:14:21
Have to defer I. 01:14:27
I can just. 01:14:30
Kind of envision this house being finished and it. 01:14:31
I I can kind of. I envision this house being finished and. 01:14:35
And unlike the previous two that we gave approval to, this just looks like a mix and match to me. It doesn't. 01:14:39
Really. Aesthetically. 01:14:45
Fit. And I don't know if that's enough of a basis to say my opinion on it. I went there today and looked around and. 01:14:46
You know the side yards are. 01:14:54
Allowable very, very small, especially on one side. 01:14:55
And in the second edition, is going to be right there with the neighbor on the opposing St. 01:14:59
And. 01:15:05
You know, yes, you've got a garage now which offsets, then no parking, but. 01:15:07
I have no parking and I don't have a garage because I gave my garage up for leaving space. 01:15:12
Umm. 01:15:16
And it just it it just doesn't work for me, so I may be the only one. 01:15:18
Jennifer. 01:15:22
No comment. 01:15:25
Well, I want to appreciate. 01:15:26
The patience you've shown us, starting from the beginning, and I, I also. 01:15:29
Like that you. 01:15:35
Actually made a special page here to show us, you know, what we asked for and what you've done, so I appreciated that. 01:15:36
Made it pretty easy in a way. 01:15:44
I I think a little bit of the height problem. It appears that the law. 01:15:47
Slopes up a bit. 01:15:51
And that makes the second store or the 2nd. 01:15:53
To, sorry, start over makes the addition seem a lot higher than. 01:15:56
Than it would if it were on on level ground. 01:16:01
But I. 01:16:04
I feel like it you're you're still showcasing the old house? 01:16:05
And that's really what we want. You're protecting the Old House. 01:16:11
It's not being, you know? 01:16:15
There's not something coming up over the top to hide it, It's it's going to stand on its own and I appreciated that. 01:16:17
Thank you for the the tree solution that that was. 01:16:24
Kind of a minor one, but. 01:16:27
It's a pretty wonderful tree. 01:16:29
OK. 01:16:34
I the one thing I did have was and and maybe I'm looking at the wrong picture, but there was a window on the upstairs that's off centered and that bothered me. 01:16:37
And that is on. Let's see. I can't even tell you what page this is because the print is about that big. 01:16:49
It shows the second story window, it's just not lined up. 01:16:58
And and I don't know if there was a reason that it had to be like that, but that looked kind of weird. But. 01:17:04
On the other hand, it's kind of in the back. 01:17:09
Well, perhaps no. It's this window right here, right at the back, yes. 01:17:13
The oh, here it is. 01:17:17
If you can lift that up just a tiny bit. 01:17:20
No. 01:17:23
There we go. It's on the I'm pointing to the screen. 01:17:24
Help. Do you see the upstairs window? That's off center? Label #2, it's that right there. Label #2, it has a #2 next to it, yes? 01:17:29
Is there any way that can kind of be centered? 01:17:38
Thank you for the arrow. 01:17:41
That, that I mean that's again, it's a pretty minor thing. Yes, please come forward. 01:17:43
And please state your main name into the microphone. My name is Kevin Tolman. I'm the applicant we know, yeah. 01:17:49
And that is actually at the top of the staircase. 01:17:56
And so that that window is centered over the landing, the upper landing of those stairs. 01:18:00
So if and because I agree, I mean, I'm kind of a Sinner. I'm kind of proportional guy, and it does look just a little bit goofy. 01:18:08
But from a functional perspective, the reality is that that provides an element of safety and an element of lighting to that upper landing. 01:18:14
If you mandate it, I'll move it. 01:18:22
Because we put, we put a fair amount of concern of. 01:18:25
Of effort into that window, but. 01:18:29
There there is a reason for the for its placement. And by keeping it up high we've we've eliminated any possibility of anybody looking down at the at the next door neighbors if you made it A5 pane window. 01:18:32
That. 01:18:44
I so stretch it out correct? 01:18:46
And center it and then I think then you'd have 5 pains and. 01:18:51
OK. 01:18:55
Point we'll take it. 01:18:56
So you can name it after me. 01:18:58
What if it doesn't turn out? 01:19:03
I've already named a number of things after you. 01:19:06
I bet you have to, Shay. 01:19:13
Yeah. All right. Well. 01:19:15
If if we can make that. 01:19:20
Very minor adjustment. 01:19:23
And was there another adjustment we wanted? No. And then can we have a motion to approve? 01:19:25
I move that we approve the project as presented. 01:19:34
With with. 01:19:38
The change to the. 01:19:40
Upper windows of the. 01:19:42
What aspect is that? The rear aspect of the house? 01:19:45
Do we have a second? 01:19:49
I'll second. Thank you. 01:19:50
May we have a roll call vote please? 01:19:52
Member Greening. 01:19:57
Aye. 01:19:58
Member Grannis. 01:20:00
Remember Cleese? 01:20:04
No. 01:20:05
Member Bickett. 01:20:08
Vice chair steers. 01:20:13
Aye. 01:20:14
Chair Anton. 01:20:17
Aye. 01:20:18
Motion passes. We have Five Eyes and one no. 01:20:21
And one vacant. 01:20:26
Thank you, and thank you, gentlemen, for your patience and thank you for hanging in there with us. 01:20:29
Thank you. 01:20:35
All right. We have one more item. 01:20:37
Time. 01:20:41
Umm. 01:20:42
Again, I'm just want to reference the correct number. 01:20:43
And that would be item number 9 D And we will excuse Miss Bickett at this point, since she lives in the neighborhood. 01:20:46
And so this is the discussion of the deletion of 111 Fountain Ave. from the HRI. 01:20:54
And I will turn to the staff for your report. 01:21:01
Good afternoon, Chair Anton and members of the HRC. The item before you is the removal of 111 Fountain Ave. from the HRI. 01:21:06
Now this item is continued from April 26th, 2023. 01:21:16
Historic Resource Committee meeting. 01:21:22
We have included more historic documents in the packet to help make a determination. 01:21:25
The city records indicate that the building was constructed in 1900, per Page and Turnbull. 01:21:31
Accumulative additions and alterations have resulted in the loss of integrity. 01:21:38
Historic integrity. 01:21:43
Page and Turnbull's recommendation is to remove the property from the HR I. Therefore, staff recommendation is to remove the property from the HR I. 01:21:45
This concludes my staff report. I'm available to answer any questions. 01:21:54
Thank you and I will. 01:21:59
Let me just ask. 01:22:02
Is there anybody that? 01:22:04
Owns or lives in that house, present that would wish to speak. 01:22:06
No. OK. So I will open to public comment. 01:22:10
Starting with. 01:22:15
Present comment. 01:22:16
Nobody present, all right. 01:22:18
Do we have any virtual comment? 01:22:20
Yes, we have. 01:22:22
Two hands raised, I'm going to allow Lisa Chiani to speak. 01:22:23
Thank you. I wrote to you this morning, but I'm not sure that you all had a chance to hear, so I will read what I wrote it. It's good to see the ownership information and Sanborn maps provided by Steve Hanniger. 01:22:29
However, the original 1977 DPR form and the permit history are not provided. A substantiated decision regarding deletion cannot be made without carefully considering all the available documents. They're available, but not in the agenda report. Permit histories are provided for the properties applying for initial historic screenings. 01:22:43
And they should, equally as importantly, be provided for properties recommended for deletion. 01:23:05
Here's the I I provided the link to the 1977 DPR form that's on the city's website. I do not know how to access the permit history, but somehow in the planning, someone in the planning department must know. 01:23:10
How to do that since that information is provided for initial historic screening applications? 01:23:25
In senior planner Joe Seedorf's absence. 01:23:31
Perhaps there is some confusion. 01:23:34
Apparently his contract funds have been used up for the current fiscal year. It's hard to know however he is. Mr. Sedor is available to the Planning department by phone or e-mail. 01:23:36
To find out how to do this. 01:23:49
Until someone in the planning department is able to provide all the necessary information to make a careful, substantiated decision. 01:23:51
I request that this item be continued. 01:23:59
Umm. 01:24:03
And I. 01:24:04
I think that's it I I. 01:24:05
I if you do not choose to to to wait for all the information. 01:24:08
I would just like to say that. 01:24:14
Umm. 01:24:17
I think that that the house. 01:24:18
Should remain on the HRI and. 01:24:21
If for some compelling reason it should not. 01:24:24
Then it should definitely be added to the neighborhood character list. 01:24:27
But. 01:24:32
First, I think you need to get all the information. 01:24:34
Thank you. 01:24:37
Thank you. 01:24:39
We have one more hand raised. I'm gonna allow Inga Lorenzen Dahmer to speak. 01:24:46
Thank you. 01:24:53
And once again, I'm just. 01:24:54
Going to since I'm following Lisa. 01:24:57
I'm just going to echo absolutely. 01:24:59
What she said and that we do not still have all the information. 01:25:03
And in the absence of, I mean, excuse me, the permits, the. 01:25:08
You know the property files. 01:25:14
It is. 01:25:17
It's imperative that we get these and. 01:25:18
With all the turmoil in the planning department, I think that. 01:25:23
This is part of the training here is that we need. 01:25:27
This information or historic resources? 01:25:32
Specially. 01:25:36
So I would appreciate this. 01:25:38
And the fact that, yes, I would vote for retention myself, but. 01:25:40
If not then neighborhood character. So thank you very much. Information first. 01:25:47
Thank you. 01:25:53
We have no more hands raised. All right, I will close public comment and bring it back to the committee. 01:26:00
For discussion. Anybody want to? 01:26:07
Speak up here. 01:26:10
Yeah, it would be really nice if we had all those DPR's and old photographs on things, but sometimes it just isn't there. 01:26:13
Yes, sometimes it is, sometimes it's not. 01:26:22
But looking at the. 01:26:26
Ground plan on. 01:26:29
All of these Sanborn maps? This goes back at least as far as 1905. 01:26:31
And the Planning department said 1900. 01:26:37
And it has. 01:26:43
There was one little tiny change. On the South end of the building. There's a covered porch. 01:26:45
That isn't shown on some of the earlier plans, but it's there and it's. 01:26:53
Certainly in character with the rest of the house. 01:26:58
I think. 01:27:02
And I'm. 01:27:04
To some extent, I'm guessing. 01:27:05
That most of the changes occur on the top floor, all those dormers on top of the there's millions of dormers up there and. 01:27:09
Some of those things have windows that didn't exist back in the early 1900s. 01:27:20
Like the plastic? 01:27:26
Amber bottle glass things and aluminum windows and things like that. So yeah, some changes have been made. The upper floor the dorm was up there also have a different siding. It's a shingle siding. 01:27:28
And the rest of the house has a a horizontal, maybe an 8 inch. 01:27:43
Wide horizontal. 01:27:48
Lap siding. 01:27:51
So yeah, I'm thinking there are a few changes up there, but I don't think it's enough to take it off the inventory. I I would vote to leave it on. 01:27:52
Alright, thank you. 01:28:04
Other comments. 01:28:06
Yeah, I kind of disagree because I although I really love this house, but those dormers are just not. I mean, even in. 01:28:07
They just don't look good in my eyes. And there's been enough changes that I think we should put it on the neighborhood character list, but I'm not for. 01:28:14
Umm. 01:28:24
Do you mean it on the inventory? 01:28:25
I would concur with Rick that. 01:28:29
I mean. 01:28:31
Ohh sorry. 01:28:32
Again, I would concur with Rick's comments that, you know, I can live with the dormers, I mean. 01:28:35
I pass this house all the time on my walks and I I treasure the house and that doesn't bother me as much as some things would bother me. 01:28:41
So I would I would vote to keep it on the HRI. 01:28:48
Madam. 01:28:55
I will. 01:28:56
Like to keep it on the HRI? 01:28:57
Umm. 01:29:00
I looking at the list of the work done, there's only. 01:29:01
One exterior one that's listed here. We just don't have enough information. 01:29:04
And that was adding to the porch the risk. We don't know if they're interior or. 01:29:08
What was done and it's got a lot of character, even with all the dormers. 01:29:12
So I would prefer to keep it on. 01:29:17
Keep, you know, Be more inclined to keep it on than to let it. 01:29:20
Come up the list. 01:29:23
Thank you. 01:29:29
I'm sort of torn on this one and and I do want to echo I think what Rick said that. 01:29:31
If there's no information, there probably isn't information. I mean, I think the Heritage Society. 01:29:38
Tried to help out with something and I believe that the city probably dug in and. 01:29:45
Look for whatever they had and. 01:29:50
You know, we didn't have computers going way back, so things were. 01:29:52
Put in file boxes and. 01:29:56
I believe the file box is burned up in that fire. If I'm not mistaken, when we had the fire at. 01:29:59
Public works building out there. 01:30:04
I'm pretty sure a lot of good stuff burned up, along with some not so good stuff, so. 01:30:06
Going by what what I see, I can totally understand why Page and Turnbull would like to remove it, I mean. 01:30:14
It's it's kind of a hodgepodge. 01:30:20
But living in a house? That's a hodgepodge, I understand that. 01:30:23
That may be how it was built and when I consulted with. 01:30:27
Couple of people with the Heritage Society, they felt that that was probably. 01:30:31
How it was built, that it was not always you know. 01:30:36
Built with perfect windows that matched other windows and. 01:30:41
You know, maybe they didn't have the siding. 01:30:46
Enough for the front and the back to be the same, et cetera. So the sort of consensus there was. 01:30:48
To leave it on then. 01:30:54
I mean, I sort of feel when in doubt, let's just leave it on. 01:30:56
And I don't know if you all agree with me, but. 01:31:01
Agree. 01:31:04
I agree with you as well. I would like to interject here that. 01:31:07
Most of these files. 01:31:12
Have a lot more information in them. 01:31:14
And I just want to say thank you. 01:31:17
Good job. Yeah. Thank you. 01:31:20
Thank you. 01:31:24
We hope you enjoy doing all that research. 01:31:25
And stay a while. 01:31:30
It really helps. 01:31:33
All right. Do we have a a motion one way or the other? 01:31:34
Hearing no more discussion. 01:31:41
I'll move. Go ahead. 01:31:44
I'll move that we. 01:31:47
Keep it on the historic inventory. 01:31:48
Do we have a second I second it. May we have a roll call vote please? 01:31:51
Vice chair steers. 01:31:58
Aye. 01:32:00
Member, please. 01:32:02
Remember Grannis? 01:32:06
No. 01:32:08
Remember Greening? 01:32:11
Aye. 01:32:12
Chair Anton. 01:32:14
Aye. 01:32:16
Motion passes. We have four eyes, one no and one recused. 01:32:19
One vacancy. Thank you and I believe that. 01:32:26
Concludes our meeting for today. 01:32:29
So thank you to our audience and thank you to everybody up front here. 01:32:33
Thank you to our staff. 01:32:37
Thank you, Chair, and see you. Next month's meeting ends at 4:33. 01:32:38

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We're good. 00:00:00
All right. Good afternoon, everyone. I'd like to call the May 24th, 2023 meeting of the Historic Resources Committee to order. 00:00:04
And we'll begin with A roll call. 00:00:13
Chair Anton. 00:00:18
Present. 00:00:20
Vice Chair steers here. 00:00:22
Member Bickett. 00:00:25
Member. 00:00:28
Member, please. 00:00:30
Member Greening. 00:00:33
All members are present. 00:00:35
Thank you. We'll move to item number two, approval of the agenda. 00:00:38
Do we have a motion to approve? 00:00:43
So moved. Thank you. Second I second. 00:00:46
Thank you. And we have a roll call vote please. 00:00:50
Aye. 00:01:00
Member. 00:01:03
Grannis. 00:01:04
Member Greening. 00:01:07
Aye. 00:01:09
Member Kleis, please. 00:01:10
Chair Anton. 00:01:14
Aye. 00:01:15
And member Bickett. 00:01:20
We have six I 0 nays. 00:01:24
Motion passes. Thank you. And we'll move to item 3, which is Commission. 00:01:27
It should be committee once again, committee and staff announcements, and if we have. 00:01:31
A staff announcement. 00:01:38
Yes, we have two announcements. We'd like to welcome Aaron Campbell, Associate Planner to the Community Development Department. 00:01:43
Welcome. 00:01:53
And. 00:01:56
Just went to inform you that the staff had has met with Paige and Turnbull. 00:01:59
About a neighborhood character list, we discussed the process. 00:02:04
Involved with creating a list. 00:02:09
Umm. 00:02:11
The guidelines that would be involved and ballpark figures of what the cost may be. 00:02:12
And no definitive, no definitive lift list has been made. 00:02:18
But we just wanted to form. 00:02:23
That we're in discussions. 00:02:25
Thank you. 00:02:28
Any committee announcements? 00:02:30
All right. Seeing none, we'll move on to #4, the council liaison. 00:02:33
Announcements welcome, Mayor Peak. 00:02:37
No. 00:02:43
Good afternoon, Madam Chair, Committee members. 00:02:44
I just have a few announcements. One is that council recently discussed the proposal by Rincon for a general plan update. We had a lengthy discussion on that. That'll be coming back to council on a housing element update. That's for the arena numbers for adding affordable housing. That project is underway. 00:02:48
Also, Rincon is a consultant. 00:03:16
OHH Council also began a discussion of a cannabis ordinance, WE. 00:03:19
There's a lot of questions around. 00:03:26
Delivery that we. 00:03:29
Discussed but didn't come to many conclusions on that. So that'll be coming back. And lastly, 1352 Lighthouse Ave. that's the Noah building was a council subcommittee and it's been discussing what's going to go into an RFQ for a historic assessment. 00:03:33
OK. 00:03:54
So that's in progress. 00:03:55
Thank you very much. 00:03:58
All right. 00:04:02
Monsoon. 00:04:03
Item number 5. General public comments. 00:04:05
1st I'll note that we at least I received. 00:04:08
Written comments from Mike Gibbs, which was really about the Noah building, and from Lisa Chianni and from Jane Fleischman. 00:04:11
So at this point I will open to public comment. 00:04:21
Comments must deal with matters that the. 00:04:25
HRC can deal with but that are not on the current agenda. 00:04:28
So do we have any? 00:04:33
First of all, any in present in house. 00:04:35
Public comments. 00:04:38
I see none. Do we have any virtual public comments? 00:04:41
Let's see one hand raised. 00:04:45
I'll allow Lisa Chiani to speak. 00:04:47
Thank you. I have two brief comments before my main comment here. First of all, the sound system is very. 00:04:51
Difficult for. 00:05:03
For those of us on Zoom, So if you're not speaking directly into your microphone, we don't hear you. And I think maybe member Bickett's microphone is off, because I haven't. 00:05:05
I heard her. 00:05:17
Respond and also I had a question about. 00:05:18
Staff announcement about the. 00:05:23
The neighborhood character list in Page and Turnbull with an estimated price and I wanted to know when we would hear more about that because. 00:05:28
They had a starter list in the HR. I update and I'm I'm not, and then you guys have been setting things aside. 00:05:37
For consideration for the neighbourhood character list, so I'm not quite sure why why we would continue with that. 00:05:44
My main comment is about the former Pat Hathaway home at 960 Bayview. 00:05:52
That was before ARB and I I think it must have been continued. 00:06:00
For lack of time. 00:06:06
There's there's a very. 00:06:08
Good. 00:06:10
Historic report about the home. 00:06:11
Finding that it it is eligible for the HRI. 00:06:15
And and that is my request today, is that you agendize consideration of the home for the HRI? 00:06:20
My only concern about the historic report. 00:06:28
Was that it did not. 00:06:33
Really acknowledge. 00:06:35
The Significance of Pat Hathaway's photography collection, Historical Photography Collection, and his own photography. 00:06:37
Which James Perry of Monterey Historical Society has. 00:06:45
Has commented for a newspaper article. I believe it was that he wants to write up more about that, and perhaps Kent Seavey could write about it because. 00:06:51
His heroic. 00:07:01
Efforts have not been significantly acknowledged for for what he's done to to have Pats collection. 00:07:02
Preserved here in Monterey. 00:07:12
Of a county by the Monterey Historical Monterey County Historical Society. Sorry, I'm I wasn't clear about that. 00:07:14
Is so putting. Considering this for addition to the HR, I would not be the complicated process it was for is. 00:07:24
Is for the Noah building because there's already a historic report. 00:07:34
Finding it. 00:07:38
Eligible and we just need a little more information about Pat himself to make the report complete. I hope you will agendize that for your next meeting. Thank you very much. 00:07:41
Thank you very much too. 00:07:53
Could we have the timer present? 00:07:56
It's. I didn't see one on this. 00:07:59
Oh, I'm sorry. It's moved. 00:08:02
Sorry. 00:08:03
OK. 00:08:05
All right. 00:08:06
Let's see, the next item is the consent agenda. We we have one more hand raised. Ohh, I'm sorry. 00:08:08
I thought you said there was just one. OK. 00:08:14
I'm gonna allow Inga Lorenzen Dahmer to speak. 00:08:17
Thank you. 00:08:23
Yeah, I wondered about the just one also. Thank you. And I'm going to echo Lisa's comments. Absolutely. 00:08:25
As regard to yes, you're speaking into microphones and no, I didn't hear, member Bickett. 00:08:34
And and that Pat Hathaway is one of our treasures and he is more than just Pacific Grove. He is nationally and. 00:08:40
Recognized also in his collection and so this is something that I really would like to push forward to. 00:08:50
And. 00:08:58
And agenda is it. 00:09:00
And also I'm wondering where are. 00:09:02
Quote UN quote Senior planner has gone as in Joe Sidor. 00:09:06
And what is happening because? 00:09:11
We are getting a lot of new ones. 00:09:15
Or we've just added a new one and and welcome. 00:09:18
To Aaron Campbell, but. 00:09:23
What's happening with our? 00:09:26
Contracted Senior planner? I would really like to know. 00:09:28
Thank you very much. 00:09:33
Thank you. 00:09:36
Do we have anymore? 00:09:39
Online people, no more hands raised, alright? 00:09:41
Thank you. I'll close public comment. 00:09:44
And excuse me, move on now to the consent agenda. 00:09:47
Does anybody from the? 00:09:52
Committee wish to remove something from the consent agenda. 00:09:54
All right, seeing none, does anybody from the audience wish to move? 00:10:00
Something off the consent agenda? 00:10:03
From the virtual audience. 00:10:08
All right, we have two hands raised, OK? 00:10:13
I'm gonna let Angel Lorenzen Dahmer. 00:10:17
Speak. 00:10:20
I'm sorry. I was thinking it was a City Council meeting. Sandra always lowers our hands. I have to lower mine myself. I will do that. 00:10:23
Thank you. 00:10:32
No more hands raised. No more hands raised. 00:10:40
Alright then, may we have a motion to? 00:10:43
Approve the consent agenda. 00:10:46
Thank you. Do we have a second? I think you're mic I second motion. 00:10:52
May we have a roll call vote please? 00:10:59
Member Grannis. 00:11:02
Aye. 00:11:04
We're Beckett. 00:11:06
Vice chair steers. 00:11:10
Aye. 00:11:12
Chair Anton. 00:11:14
Aye. 00:11:15
Member, please. 00:11:17
Aye. 00:11:18
Member Greening. 00:11:19
Motion is passed. 00:11:22
Six eyes, 0 nays. 00:11:24
Just to repeat who seconded the motion? 00:11:27
That would be member Bickett. 00:11:30
OK. Thank you. 00:11:35
Got that? 00:11:36
OK. 00:11:37
On the next item is item number 9. 00:11:38
And the first one is the architectural permit for. 00:11:42
Umm. 00:11:45
129 Forest Ave. and unfortunately, two of us must recuse ourselves again. 00:11:46
So we'll do that now and I will turn the meeting over to Vice Chair Steers. 00:11:52
The presentation. 00:12:30
From. 00:12:32
The architect or some some another. 00:12:33
Yeah. 00:12:37
Vice Chair steers staff has a a report. Yes. And then we'll hear from the architect. Please go ahead. Good afternoon, Vice Chair committee members and members of the public. 00:12:39
I'm Laurel Ohana o'halleran and I'm representing Joe Sedor for this project. 00:12:49
That is Architectural permit and Coastal development permit 22-0305 for 129 Forest Ave. 00:12:55
This has been continued from the April 26 HRC regular meeting. 00:13:04
The proposed project includes the relocation of the existing residence approximately 4 feet, 8 inches further from the street, thereby increasing the front setback to a conforming distance. 00:13:08
Construction Constructing a new perimeter foundation. 00:13:19
And lowering the height by approximately 18 inches. 00:13:23
A partial demolition of. 00:13:26
Approximately 132 two square feet of a rear addition. 00:13:28
Replacement of windows with historically correct or period windows and construction of approximately 791 square feet of first and second story additions. 00:13:32
The resulting 1397 square foot structure would include a. 00:13:42
12 Accessory Dwelling Unit. 00:13:48
And a two-story main dwelling. 00:13:51
The proposed project is not eligible for the standard residential. 00:13:53
CDP exemption. 00:13:57
And CD and CD staff forward a CDP determination to the California Coastal Commission on January 12th of 2023. 00:13:59
Per the historic assessment, the standard for rehabilitation is met by retaining the historic use of the property as a single family residence. 00:14:08
And retaining the historic character and fabric of the primary elevation. 00:14:15
Staff recommends that the HRC recommend approval to the Planning Commission of the AP and the CDP, subject to the findings, conditions of approval and a class one and a Class 31 categorical exemptions. This concludes my staff report and the architects here if for further questions as well. 00:14:20
With the architect like to give us a presentation. 00:14:41
And I'm thinking 10 minutes maybe. 00:14:44
I yeah. 00:14:48
Hi, I'm Bill Mefford, I'm the architect on the project. You since this has been continued, you've obviously seen it before and the last meeting you guys were running some more clarification or some more. 00:14:49
Specifics on some of the materials and whatnot. 00:15:02
Which I we've given in the packet we are, we did switch the siding to a plywood. 00:15:06
Plywood board and bath is what I'm calling it. So it will look like board and bat siding with the plywood. So it'll be a different spacing than the than the original board and bat siding. 00:15:13
We are proposing. 00:15:23
On the historic part of the house to use wood windows, which would be consistent with the original original windows which are not there right now, but and then on the addition, we're going to be using fiberglass windows, they actually look. 00:15:25
Exactly the same. 00:15:41
They're just made out of fiberglass than wood. I have pictures of of both of them in there and. 00:15:43
For for reasons of. 00:15:50
Longevity in this marine climate that we're in. 00:15:53
Umm. 00:15:57
They they'll be painted so, so they'll they'll be the same anyway. 00:15:58
The and that's. 00:16:05
You know we're using. 00:16:08
The composition shingles on the roof like we were before and. 00:16:10
I think that pretty much SO covers it. Or any questions? 00:16:16
Tell me about the windows again that you said fiberglass, so the fiberglass would be in the in the new portion the that not in the historic portion. The historic portion would we would be using wood windows. 00:16:21
They actually, I figured with the is the manufacturer. 00:16:33
Doug, they manufactured you, remember? 00:16:38
It it's, it's, it says on the, on the, but it says here, yeah. 00:16:43
Anyway, they're they're fiberglass window. 00:16:47
Looks exactly like there would window. 00:16:50
They're, I mean they're the profiles are the same et cetera, et cetera. 00:16:53
But the owner would prefer to use in the new portion. 00:16:57
The fiberglass windows. 00:17:01
OK. 00:17:03
Really. And then only, like with you. The only thing I was kind of questioning when he was talking about the. 00:17:14
The windows. 00:17:19
OK. 00:17:21
All right. 00:17:23
Have a seat. 00:17:24
Be close in case we need you. 00:17:25
Do we have any more comments from the studio audience? 00:17:29
Seeing none, let's look at the online audience. 00:17:37
We have one hand raised. 00:17:42
Lisa Gianni. 00:17:43
Thank you. My concerns are with archaeology still and and and and the historic consultants. 00:17:49
Comments at the last. 00:17:59
Meeting where this was discussed and and. 00:18:00
Contesting that. 00:18:04
My saying that there are archaeological resources in the area. Pacific Groves entire coastal zone is an archaeologically sensitive area, meaning that meaning there is a likelihood of archaeological resources being exposed during excavation, also referred to as ground disturbance. The the draft permit for this project provides only inadvertent discovery language in the conditions of approval to protect cultural resources. A term which refers to archaeological and tribal cultural. 00:18:05
Resources refers to archaeological and tribal resources. 00:18:35
Well, it's historical resources. Inadvertent discovery language means work must be stopped until an archaeologist can come to evaluate the resources. If construction workers happen to notice and recognize archaeological artifacts or ancestral remains, there will be no professional monitors on site during ground disturbing work as the conditions are now written, there will be no archaeologist and no tribal monitor. It is inappropriate not to have even a tribal monitor in an. 00:18:39
Area of the coastal zone that has a concentration of mapped archaeological sites, including one on the same block of the next street Over There is a map of all the map sites in this area of PG and Gary Briskin's 2005 report for an infrastructure project for the city, which I sent you a screenshot of the cover of and which should be on file with the city. Due to confidentiality issues, I did not send HRC the full report which Gary Bruschini shared with me and a council member in 2007. 00:19:09
17 The year before Doctor Bruschini died. Of course, not all sites have been mapped, and previous disturbance or failure to discover artifacts during a site survey do not rule out. 00:19:40
The potential for cultural resources. 00:19:50
This is the ancestral homeland of the alone Costanoan, Esselen Nation, or ocean as the initials. 00:19:53
Is responsible for a very large area of the county. 00:20:13
Please require a condition of approval for tribal monitoring to carry out Pacific Groves local coastal program and out of respect for the indigent for the indigenous people whose land here was taken from their ancestors by the colonizers. And I sent you kind of late today the the e-mail I had sent you last month when I expected this to be heard and I I realized that. 00:20:17
You might not have had that included in your packet. Again, I don't know, but I do hope that you will provide for tribal monitoring. 00:20:42
During ground disturbance. Thank you. 00:20:52
Thank you. 00:20:56
Anyone else? 00:20:57
Invite Inga, Lawrence and Damen to speak. 00:21:08
Thank you. 00:21:13
Once again, I'm going to completely agree with Lisa. 00:21:15
And say that the city has a draft report of our. 00:21:18
Archaeological resources Policy. 00:21:23
Somewhere in there that's still, after two or three years, has not come to council to be heard and for public disclosure and then we need this policy. 00:21:26
And. 00:21:37
I would. 00:21:39
Hope that the historic Resources Board Committee would completely protect. 00:21:40
These resources. 00:21:47
In lieu of the city. 00:21:49
Having their policy, their full policy, in place. 00:21:51
Thank you very much. 00:21:56
Thank you. 00:21:58
Again. 00:22:00
Anyone else? 00:22:02
Telephone. 00:22:07
Ending in 864. 00:22:09
We allow them to talk. 00:22:12
864. 00:22:34
You're unmuted. 00:22:37
I see we have another one. Why don't we go to that one and come back to this and try again? 00:22:47
OK, I'm going to allow. 00:22:53
Travis to speak. 00:22:55
I would just like to echo. 00:23:00
Bella residents and that one Lisa and engage. 00:23:03
A big concerns about. 00:23:07
Archaeological. 00:23:10
Issues and also chemical situations as far as the materials that are used so close to the ocean. 00:23:11
Given it's 2023, it's it's kind of important to like. 00:23:19
Really. 00:23:24
Be relevant and up to date with what's going on and and what could could potentially like you know happen down the road if we just put something in place permanently. 00:23:25
That could leak into. 00:23:34
Our city and like just if if if, we would be like. 00:23:37
Involved in that process, which would be a shame, so I would like to echo those. 00:23:41
Before thank you. 00:23:45
We have no more hands raised. 00:23:50
And we go back to the other one that we missed and try them again. 00:23:53
They're not. 00:23:58
They're going attending anymore. 00:24:00
OK. 00:24:02
All right, then we'll bring it to the committee here. 00:24:05
Do we have any? 00:24:09
We have any comments? 00:24:13
Committee. 00:24:16
There's a committee. 00:24:18
Really. 00:24:20
I think your mic is off. 00:24:27
I'm sorry. 00:24:30
There we go now as a committee member A. 00:24:31
I'm not sure what. 00:24:34
We can do about. 00:24:35
Having somebody there? 00:24:38
On site. 00:24:40
I mean, we recommend that and. 00:24:41
Yes. 00:24:44
Who said this? 00:24:48
Shambles. 00:24:54
No, I didn't know. I know when they do Rd. works, there's there's somebody there permanently looking at, yeah, yes. And I assume the city authorises that. 00:24:57
But what is it our duty to? 00:25:06
To authorize this if we think it's pertinent. 00:25:09
There. 00:25:12
If we want to authorize something over and above what the city requires. 00:25:13
Then yes, we need to say so. But. 00:25:18
If the. 00:25:21
Ordinary. 00:25:24
Umm. 00:25:26
In the conditions for approval, there's a. 00:25:30
One of the conditions has to do with this speaks to this. Maybe we can revisit it. 00:25:34
Can you call it up and? 00:25:40
Read it for us, please. 00:25:43
You want the draft, AP read too? Yeah, I believe at the last meeting this was discussed and it was just brought up that if any artifacts were to be found. 00:25:47
That then the the calls would be made, but it was brought up by. 00:25:57
Some of the callers that. 00:26:01
This isn't within our purview to discuss this, and it's that handbook that I'm not familiar with and this is not. 00:26:03
Something that I know that much about in terms of what is what is our responsibility. 00:26:09
But in terms of. 00:26:14
What was sent in by letters and citizens concerns is that being close to the ocean and and in the archaeological site that is in. 00:26:17
And. 00:26:24
You know, this just came up around the Noah building in terms of looking at that, So I think it deserves some credence to pay attention to it. 00:26:25
Yeah, I know we've talked about it a. 00:26:37
Just slightly not a lot, but I don't know. 00:26:39
That that is, is. 00:26:43
In our jurisdiction though. 00:26:45
What about? I guess I have a question for staff. What about the handbook that was mentioned? 00:26:49
And that. 00:26:54
I mean, then of course couldn't be sent in because that would be in violation of policy. But can can you address that handbook that one of the callers mentioned, I believe, Miss Gianni? 00:26:56
Did you mean the Archaeo report? I guess so, yes. Ohh, OK. Yeah, those are confidential and then I believe that. 00:27:06
This was addressed in the agenda report. 00:27:15
Umm. 00:27:19
But is it related to this? I mean, are we tasked to pay attention to this being an archaeological site as referenced in that? 00:27:20
And book, I don't know that was what the caller addressed that this is something that should be addressed in terms of archaeological. So, so the report is written by a. 00:27:27
Certified Professional. 00:27:38
OK, who? 00:27:41
Who addresses the archaeological issues and they have been addressed. 00:27:43
In the report. 00:27:46
And it's mentioned in your agenda report with the, Yeah, yeah. And then it's in our draft architectural permit. 00:27:47
Cultural and or archaeological artifacts and Cultural, archaeological and important discovery. There's two. 00:27:56
Conditions of approval and the draft Agenda architectural permit attached in your Agenda report. Sounds like we need to hear them again. 00:28:03
You want me to read you? Read them. OK, please, yes. 00:28:12
Condition of approval #9 Archaeological and inadvertent discovery. 00:28:17
When human remains or artifacts are exposed, the Health and Safety Code. 00:28:21
Dash 7050.5 requires that no further excavation or disturbance occurs in the area and that the county coroner is called so that the coroner can verify that the remains are not subject to medical jurisprudence. 00:28:25
Within 24 hours of notification. 00:28:38
The coroner calls the Native American Heritage Commission. If the remains are known or thought to be Native American, the Native American Heritage Commission selects the most likely descendant. 00:28:41
From a rotating list. 00:28:50
And then? 00:28:52
MLD has 24 hours to respond. All work will halt within a 50 yard radius until an osteologist can examine the remains. 00:28:53
And a treatment plan for any said remains has been provided. 00:29:01
According to the MLD. 00:29:05
Condition Approval #10 Cultural and or archaeological artifacts. 00:29:08
If such artifacts are unexpectedly discovered during ground disturbing activities. 00:29:12
Work shall be halted until the item can be evaluated by a qualified professional archaeologist. 00:29:18