No Bookmarks Exist.
All right, it is 6:00 PM. I am Steven Lilly and I will call to order this June 8th, 2023 regular meeting of the Pacific Grove 00:00:04
Planning Commission. 00:00:09
Mr. Campbell, would you please call the roll? 00:00:15
Sure, let me. 00:00:19
Resident. 00:00:20
Vice Chair Murphy. 00:00:22
Present. 00:00:24
Commissioner, Commissioner Frederickson. 00:00:25
He has an excused absence. 00:00:29
Commissioner Sawyer. 00:00:32
President. 00:00:34
Commissioner Davison. 00:00:35
Present. 00:00:37
Commissioner Kubica. 00:00:39
Present. 00:00:41
Commissioner Nuzenski. 00:00:43
Present. 00:00:45
We have 6 present this evening, so we have a quorum for the meeting. Thank you. We have a quorum. 00:00:46
A couple of comments. This meeting is being conducted under revised rules mandated in AB. 00:00:52
2449 Besides our meeting in chambers, we also have virtual or zoom participation. 00:00:57
And therefore have a hybrid format. 00:01:03
The webinar ID and toll free telephone numbers on the are on the agenda face sheet. 00:01:06
As always when the host opens. 00:01:11
The agenda for public comment Those wishing to speak via Zoom should press Star 9 to raise your hand and then Star 6 to unmute 00:01:13
when recognized. 00:01:17
Before we get to our agenda, I would like to introduce the newest member of our staff, Aaron Campbell. 00:01:22
He's sitting next to Garrett Mccowan. 00:01:29
Mr. Campbell is an associate planner and has several years experience in zoning and land use management, primarily in 00:01:32
Pennsylvania. 00:01:35
He has a Masters in Public Administration for Widener University in Chester, PA with an emphasis. 00:01:39
In community sustainability, so welcome Mr. Campbell. 00:01:45
Comma. 00:01:50
We also have with this this evening, other staff members that have been introduced I believe before and that would be Garrett 00:01:51
Mccowan, assistant planner. 00:01:54
Lisa Kroger, who may be on Zoom. 00:01:59
Housing. 00:02:01
Program manager And then there's Dara Sanders, who we see here on the screen, and she is a contract planner with Good City. Is 00:02:03
that correct? Is that the name of the firm? 00:02:08
Yes, Sir. It is wonderful to see you again, Chair Lilly. 00:02:14
OK. Thank you. 00:02:19
So now we come to our agenda. 00:02:21
And so, does anybody have any changes to the agenda? 00:02:23
Commissioner. 00:02:31
Sawyer. 00:02:32
I'd like to pull the minutes there on the consent agenda, but I just want to make that known now. 00:02:33
OK, so you wish to pull? 00:02:40
The minutes and from the agenda, OK, are there any other changes? 00:02:42
OK. 00:02:51
Yeah. 00:02:56
Staff would like to make a change. 00:02:58
Sure. 00:03:00
Mr. McGowan. 00:03:01
The applicant for. 00:03:04
8B has requested to be continued. 00:03:06
All right. That's 1060 Jewell Ave. 00:03:09
All right. 00:03:12
Then that is pulled. 00:03:15
The minutes are pulled from the consent agenda. 00:03:18
Is there anything else? 00:03:22
That needs to be changed, modified, pulled, whatever. OK. 00:03:24
Commissioner, Vice Chair Murphy. 00:03:29
If I could have staff if we are continuing that I until next meeting. 00:03:32
That is correct. Thank you. 00:03:38
I, I believe, to clarify that further. 00:03:40
The the applicant requested a continuance. Is that correct? 00:03:44
Yes, Chair Lilly. Thank you. OK. 00:03:50
So. 00:03:52
That's the score with. 00:03:53
That item. 00:03:55
So with those two items being changed, then may I have a motion? 00:03:57
To approve the remain the amended agenda. 00:04:02
Or potentially. 00:04:06
Amended agenda Commissioner Sawyer, I make a motion that we approve the amended agenda which states we're pulling the meeting 00:04:08
minutes. 00:04:13
And continuing AB to the next meeting. 00:04:19
All right. 00:04:22
And is there a second? 00:04:23
I'll second. 00:04:24
Alright, so Commissioner Sawyer moved that we approve the amended agenda. 00:04:25
With the continuance of item 8B and the. 00:04:29
Removal of the. 00:04:35
Minutes. 00:04:37
Zoom. 00:04:41
Is there Is there a? Is there somebody? 00:04:45
We don't usually. We usually don't. We usually don't involve the community with this unless. 00:04:50
Umm. 00:04:57
They were seen to approve the amended agenda with the removal of the minutes and the. 00:05:00
Continuance of item 8B And so that was seconded by Commissioners Izinski. 00:05:05
Is there any discussion? 00:05:10
If not, then Mr. Campbell, would you please call the roll? 00:05:14
Commissioner Sawyer. 00:05:19
Commissioner Nijinsky. 00:05:21
Aye, chair Lily. 00:05:22
Aye, Vice chair Murphy. 00:05:24
Commissioner Davison. 00:05:28
Aye. 00:05:30
Commissioner Kubo I. 00:05:31
The. 00:05:34
Agenda is adopted as. 00:05:37
Passed. 00:05:39
All right. So as Mr. Campbell said, the agenda modified or amended. Agenda is sorry, it's modified. I apologize. That's alright. 00:05:41
Six votes 4, none against. So it passes. 00:05:46
We are now to Commission and staff announcements. 00:05:53
Does any member of the Commission have an announcer? 00:05:57
Commissioner Sawyer. 00:06:00
I have several announcements and I think we'll go ahead and start with the first one because that that way we'll get it done. I 00:06:03
recently wrote a letter to. 00:06:08
The. 00:06:15
Person that's in charge of public works, Mr. Go, I wrote to the mayor and members of the City Council, and also to Mr. Pierrick. 00:06:17
Our. 00:06:21
City Attorney and what I wrote about was the great tide pools and my safety concerns. 00:06:27
And I think you can probably all read it. I don't need to read it to you, but. 00:06:34
I was really dismayed when I walked there to see. 00:06:40
What was happening, I was concerned about pedestrians safety and I also was extremely. 00:06:45
Concerned in regards to protecting this fragile dune area and one of the reasons I was really concerned is we have. 00:06:52
The world's largest population of. 00:07:00
A special loop in there, and so we need to protect that. 00:07:03
So I do have some photos just so folks can see what it looks like. 00:07:08
And as you look at this photo, you can see that the walkway that was down to the ADA. 00:07:13
Viewing platform has precipitously dropped off. 00:07:20
Next photo please that you can see where people are just walking through the fragile dunes area. 00:07:24
Because there's really no one place where they can go. There's no walkway anymore. 00:07:33
And next slide please. 00:07:39
This shows what has been left at the site. There are nails and so if someone wasn't careful they could fall on the nails of the. 00:07:41
A part of the wood platform next slide please. 00:07:52
And this is the upper entrance to the Great Tide Pool area. And if you're a little unstable on your feet, it also presents an an 00:07:58
issue. It is not the way that. 00:08:04
Folks that have on disability or ADA issues would come down for. 00:08:10
People who are, say walking their dogs or. 00:08:15
I saw a couple today with a. 00:08:18
Baby in a carriage coming down this and it was interesting to watch them. 00:08:21
Try to navigate this so I just feel. 00:08:26
Umm. 00:08:29
All of this needs to be looked at and taken care of. It's been five months. 00:08:30
Thank you. 00:08:35
And I have two other announcements. Thank you, Garrett. I'm done with the photos. 00:08:36
I attended 2. 00:08:41
Events The first one was a Best Complete Streets Policies for 2023. 00:08:46
And that was put on by the nonprofit Smart Growth America. 00:08:53
And they looked at policies from 2019 to 2022, which was 157 policies. 00:08:58
That dealt with. 00:09:06
Complete Streets. It was a fascinating. 00:09:08
Webinar to attend and they raided them and in the top ten were Tucson, Sacramento, and El Paso, TX. So. 00:09:13
I think as we begin looking at what we want to do with Complete Streets, we have some really good examples to look at. 00:09:22
And the thing that was really emphasized, that I thought was very important for us to think about, it's not just about 00:09:30
transportation anymore, it's about the community. 00:09:34
And when the gentleman from El Paso presented his part, he talked about the coalitions that they put together. 00:09:39
And they had AARP as one of their coalition members. 00:09:47
The Heart Association. The Vilo Club. 00:09:52
YMCA The school district. 00:09:55
Folks from the disability and blind communities. 00:09:58
And. 00:10:02
Then parents that were interested in making sure that their kids had safe ways to get to school. So it's something that we can 00:10:03
look forward to maybe doing. 00:10:07
Then the second event that I attended was a community wildfire protection plan, the CWP. 00:10:12
Which was offered on May 25th. Garrett and Aaron were there. 00:10:18
And it was developed by the Monterey Fire Department with Dudak, which is a consulting firm. 00:10:24
And it has to do with doing wildfire protection for Carmel, Pacific Grove and Monterey. 00:10:31
And I have to say, it probably was one of the most outstanding public. 00:10:37
Meetings that I've been to, that the city has put on, it was really powerful. So thank you guys, you did a good job. 00:10:42
And that's the end of my announcements. 00:10:49
Thank you. 00:10:52
Are there any other announcements? 00:10:53
If not, I have a couple. 00:10:57
First, it is with sadness that I report the passing of Maureen Mason, who was a member of the HRC. 00:11:00
And close to some of the members of the City Council and Planning Commission, And so are. 00:11:07
Thoughts and prayers go to her family and loved ones. 00:11:12
You should know that I attended remotely the Housing Committee meeting of May 15th, 2023. I believe that Commissioner Sawyer and 00:11:16
Vice Chair Murphy were there as well. 00:11:20
The Rincon consultants attended and provided more detailed information about the housing plan development process. 00:11:25
I also attended the City Council meeting on May 17th, 2023 as and spoke as a private citizen. 00:11:32
On the cannabis matter, On the agenda the Council. 00:11:39
Has referred the two proposed ordinances to us for our review and input on that and that's later in our agenda this evening. 00:11:43
I also briefly spoke in support of funding a contract with Rincon for an update to our general plan. 00:11:51
Are there any staff announcements, Mr. Campbell? 00:11:59
I I would just like to piggyback on Commissioner Sawyer with the CWP which is Q Community wildfire protection plan is that if you 00:12:03
we really don't need as much community involvement in this and Dudek is is looking for it. You can get information if you go to 00:12:10
have your same Monterey there's a link that will take you to an interactive map and the the residents, I mean we could really 00:12:18
benefit from the input from the residents. 00:12:25
And the mayor was also there and. 00:12:33
So we appreciate everybody who was involved. 00:12:35
Thank you. 00:12:38
Thank you. Any other comments? 00:12:39
If not, next we have Brian Purick, who is our city attorney, and Erica Vega. 00:12:42
Was also legal counsel with his firm welcome. Do you have any announcements or comments that you'd like to make at this time? 00:12:50
Well, as you said, I'm Brian Pierick, I am the City attorney and my only announcement is that I'm filling in for the Assistant 00:12:58
City Attorney, Greg Rubens today and I'll be available to respond to any legal issues that come up and Erica Vega is going to be 00:13:04
addressing the cannabis issue. 00:13:10
Good. 00:13:17
Well, thank you. 00:13:18
Next we have council liaison announcements. Council member Colletti or liaison, do you have any announcements? Good evening, Chair 00:13:20
members of the Commission. A couple announcements regarding our council meeting yesterday. 00:13:28
It was a full agenda. Big item on the agenda was, of course, adopting our budget for fiscal year 2324. 00:13:36
But before that we we did reshuffle a few of our capital improvement projects. 00:13:44
Mostly ones that were funded through ARPA funds. 00:13:52
We reallocated, defunded some and then reallocated the funds to others. 00:13:56
We also approve the pints on the Peninsula Special event. 00:14:01
And as part of adopting our budget. 00:14:06
Uh. 00:14:09
We included. 00:14:10
We amended the budget to include the following. 00:14:13
A George Washington Park Enhancement Project. This was item number six on the unfunded project list. 00:14:16
We also funded the Urban Canopy Improvement Project. 00:14:23
Which was an improved mitigation for 2012 Tree ordinance. 00:14:27
That was item number 34 on the unfunded project list. 00:14:32
And we also approve funds to meet one of our council goals, which was to update and implement the 1999. 00:14:36
George Washington Park Master Plan. 00:14:44
And finally, the City Council approved $50,000. 00:14:47
For parklet sidewalk extensions. 00:14:51
For parklet use. 00:14:54
And the City Council Parklet Subcommittee will be bringing forward concept drawings for this effort at our June 21st regular 00:14:56
meeting. 00:15:00
That's the end of my report. Thank you and have a good week. 00:15:06
Thank you. 00:15:09
We now come to item five, general public comment. General public comment must deal with matters subject to the jurisdiction of the 00:15:11
City and the Planning Commission, but are not on the agenda this evening. 00:15:16
This is an appropriate time to comment on items in the consent agenda, but only if the speaker does not wish to remove. 00:15:22
That item for consideration. 00:15:29
Comments from the public will be limited to 3 minutes per speaker and will not receive Commission action. 00:15:31
Comments regarding an item on the agenda will be heard at the time of the Commission's consideration of that item, so you. 00:15:37
Get one more than one more than one bite at the apple. 00:15:43
Before we continue, I believe we have several emails and and letters in our agenda packet. 00:15:47
They include the following communications, which are in your agenda package, and there are several. There's six actually. 00:15:53
Inga Lorenzen Dahmer on May 15th regarding. 00:16:00
PINTS on the Monterey Peninsula. 00:16:03
Little colletti on May 20th regarding the amicus briefs submitted by the league of California cities on litigation concerning the 00:16:06
constitutionality of SB 9. 00:16:11
Tony Ciani May 27th regarding the fire at La Porte Mansion. 00:16:15
Carol Olson on May. 00:16:20
March, May 30th, I should say regarding A use permit. 00:16:22
For you. 00:16:26
1060 Joule Ave. and and that's on this evening's agenda or was but is now continued. 00:16:27
Stephen Lilly or used truly? 00:16:33
On May 16th regarding the proposed cannabis ordinance, but I I would say that that. 00:16:36
Litter appeared three times in our packet and is in the back. 00:16:42
In, in in the appropriate place under the cannabis section, so. 00:16:45
It probably doesn't count up here. And then Michael Gibbs on June 1st regarding Parkland agenda item. 00:16:50
A park legend item on the Economic. 00:16:57
Development Commission agenda of June 1st. 00:17:00
There were also several. 00:17:03
Emails that were submitted after. 00:17:05
Actors, most of them after our agenda was. 00:17:08
Was put out last. 00:17:11
Thursday or Friday? 00:17:13
Lisa Chiani on June 2nd about Coastal Commission, June Webinar series Jane Haynes and June 2nd regarding the Need for a Story Poll 00:17:15
Subcommittee. 00:17:19
And go Lawrence and Dahmer on June 2nd and June 3rd. Regarding the need for a Story Poll Committee subcommittee, that's two 00:17:24
communications. 00:17:28
Marion H Trent Morelli on June 2nd regarding an architecture review. 00:17:33
The Architectural Review Board meetings of May 9th and 16th for permits. 00:17:37
At 773 and 775 Ocean View Blvd. 00:17:41
And I asked the staff to respond to that e-mail. 00:17:47
Janet Cohen on June 3rd regarding the Need for Story Poll Subcommittee. The same with regard for Tony Chiani on June 3rd. 00:17:50
Again, regarding the story poll subcommittee. 00:17:58
Ingle Lorentzen Dahmer on June 3rd regarding the draft cannabis ordinances. Tony Chiani on June 5th regarding Pump Station near 00:18:01
Crispy Pond. 00:18:05
The next one the 9th 1 Michael Gibbs on June 5th regarding the sale of city owned, city owned parking lot. 00:18:10
On Fountain Ave. at Laurel. 00:18:16
Jane Hennings on June 5th regarding sale of city owned parking lot. 00:18:19
The same location that Fountain Ave. at Laurel. 00:18:23
Tony Chiani and June 5th regarding the sale of city owned parking lot. 00:18:26
In the same location. 00:18:30
Jane Haynes on June 6th regarding Rina Cycle housing elements and neighboring cities. 00:18:32
Turns Johnny on June 6th regarding Crispy Pond bathroom replacement of Liverpool Lovers Point Pier repair. 00:18:37
Tony Chianni and Marianna Phillip with the Coastal Commission on June 5th and 6th regarding Pacific Grove, Rocky Shores and the 00:18:44
Solamar Dunes fencing. 00:18:48
Tony Chiani on June 7th regarding story polls and capital improvement projects. Lisa Ciani on June 7th regarding the 00:18:52
archaeological resource. 00:18:56
And treble monitoring. 00:19:01
Protocol. 00:19:02
In Clarence and Dahmer on June 7th regarding Monterey City approval of temporary cannabis events. 00:19:03
Also the Coastal Commission June Webinar series. 00:19:10
The 18th is coast. 00:19:15
And I'm not sure who who sent it. 00:19:17
Regarding. 00:19:19
On June 7th regarding the African American 51st Coast 54th Coast Artillery Regiment. 00:19:20
Pacific growth some years ago. 00:19:28
Jane Hayes on June 8th regarding hollisters new general plan. 00:19:31
Lisa Chiani on June 8th regarding tribal monitoring during. 00:19:35
Ground disturbance as a condition of approval for 129 Forest and that should be included or part of our discussion possibly later 00:19:39
on that item. 00:19:44
And then Tony Chiani on June 8th regarding state mandated date dated General Plan requirements and timelines. 00:19:49
I would say there may be others. If I have admitted any, I apologize, but there's 21 plus. 00:19:56
Another. 00:20:04
6 or 27 letters or or more, actually a couple of my combined. So there's quite a bit of correspondence and some of it's in our 00:20:07
package. I know that Debbie Gonzalez, the administrative technician for the. 00:20:13
Community Development Department makes a copy of each of these letters and puts them in a binder so they are not lost to the. 00:20:19
To posterity. 00:20:25
So with that. 00:20:27
That is what we have here for the. 00:20:31
The letters. 00:20:35
So with that. 00:20:36
Mr. Campbell, has anybody provided any further written communications that we have not included? I think I covered most of them, 00:20:38
but possibly not. 00:20:43
I think you have them all. 00:20:48
Good. Well, there was a struggle in any case, you know, earlier today, but yeah, I think you got. 00:20:50
So now with that, would anyone in the audience or on Zoom like to address the Commission on matters not on the agenda? And I'll 00:20:56
start with the audience here this evening. If not, we'll go to Zoom. So. 00:21:02
Anybody raises their hand or Mr. Gibbs, I think your first step. 00:21:08
Welcome. 00:21:14
And you might want to turn off the mic or turn on the mic. There it is. 00:21:15
Turn off the red light and on there we go, Mike. 00:21:19
So, Mr. Chairman and Planning Commission, thank you for. 00:21:22
Being here and doing duty and paying a lot of attention to the, particularly the emails that people send in. My name is Mike 00:21:26
Gibbs. I'm a member of the Pacific Grove Economic Development Commission. I'm here talking. I'm on my own behalf. 00:21:32
And I I just have a couple of things I wanted to bring up. One is first of all. 00:21:39
The chairman's letter on cannabis to the City Council was outstanding. It was precise. 00:21:43
It detailed a number of issues. I know you all are going to be talking about it later tonight, so I won't get into that. I'll be 00:21:48
on Zoom. 00:21:51
For that, but I think for that letter it was great. Second item is that a group of us showed up at the cemetery here. 00:21:55
And Pacific Grove on Memorial Day. 00:22:03
And most of them were veterans. 00:22:05
And they put out in about a 90 minute period with 908 flags. 00:22:08
On the cemeteries of veterans and their wives or spouses of of veterans. 00:22:14
On Memorial Day, but the only comment is, is that the some of the gravestones were. 00:22:19
Grown over it was we had to clear them away to find out. 00:22:24
You know, if they were a veteran or not or or who they were, and it would be nice next year to have that prepared in advance. We 00:22:27
did talk to Rocky and. 00:22:30
He said he was understaffed and and the the cemetery did need a little bit of work, so I just wanted to bring that up. 00:22:34
Next, I think Mr. Chairman referenced a letter about the 54th. 00:22:41
And. And what it is called is the 54th Coast Artillery Regiment. 00:22:47
The first battalion of that was stationed here. 00:22:52
In Pacific Grove over near the lighthouse and slow and clear if it was on the north property. 00:22:55
Which wasn't there at the time where the lighthouse and and it's an all black. 00:22:59
Artillery regiment that was assigned to Pacific Grove to guard the coast. So they had artillery they practiced. 00:23:03
In the evening, some people that lived in the area didn't like it because the guns are going off. 00:23:09
If you live next door to get you didn't appreciate that you couldn't sell your house, right? So anyway, these guys were here. A 00:23:13
lot of them were professionals for the ***** Baseball League. Some of them settled here. 00:23:19
And So what we're asking is, and part of the letter was to create a memorial or a plaque. 00:23:25
For this 54th Coast Artillery Group First Battalion. 00:23:30
Here in Pacific Grove, there was a letter. 00:23:35
About this in an article in the front page of The Pine Cone written by Kelly next this week. 00:23:38
Detailing the service of this 54 If it's a great story, it's compelling. It would be cool to have just a small maybe a plaque. 00:23:43
You know city can't fund it. We'll raise the money for it and help put it in. So I just wanted to bring that to your attention. 00:23:52
You may be hearing more about this and I'll be talking to the mayor about this. Also, my last item tonight is about the letter 00:23:57
that I wrote. 00:24:01
About the parking lot between Fountain and Laurel behind the cinema. 00:24:06
And this came up last night at the City Council closed session at the last minute. 00:24:11
Apparently the city manager. 00:24:16
Added an agenda item that that said they're going to talk about price, terms and condition of the sale of that property to then 00:24:18
so, so, very. 00:24:22
And it was a surprise to everybody. It was surprised to me. There was no public hearing about it. 00:24:26
I'm not sure if it came up in front of the Planning Commission. 00:24:30
And the first thing that the mayor did was postpone that agenda item because I don't, I don't know why, but I think it was because 00:24:33
there hadn't been proper discussion of this particular item and it was the right thing to do. So I want to thank the City Council 00:24:39
for doing that. It was not the right time. There was no discussion. 00:24:44
And everybody that called in or sent a letter was against this. I didn't hear a single person stand up and say, ohh, yeah, we 00:24:50
should have this discussion in secret about selling city property to a developer. So I wanted to thank the City Council for that 00:24:55
and thank you for your service. Thank you very much. Thank you. 00:25:00
Are there any other hands raised? 00:25:07
I think there was one other I think. 00:25:09
For instance, Dahmer. 00:25:12
We have two hands raised. 00:25:14
I'm gonna allow Lisa Chiani to speak. 00:25:16
Welcome. 00:25:19
Thank you. I intended to send you earlier this week, but it sounds like you had plenty of public comment to read. I intended to 00:25:22
send you a copy of the appeal. 00:25:29
Of the Planning Commission's decision. 00:25:36
About 1661 Sunset Dr. This was an appeal. 00:25:41
By two coastal commissioners. 00:25:46
And the city was notified on April 13th and was requested to provide. 00:25:48
Coastal Commission staff. 00:25:56
With. 00:25:58
The names of interested persons. 00:26:00
Umm. 00:26:03
So. So they could be no. We could be notified. I, my husband and I spoke at. 00:26:04
Planning Commission on that item and I also spoke at a RB and at site plan review committee and and our names are on in the 00:26:12
minutes of those meetings. However. 00:26:19
The city staff. 00:26:27
The city. 00:26:29
The planning director in particular did not. 00:26:30
Provide. 00:26:34
Our names to Coastal Commission staff, however. 00:26:36
So the first I knew of it was when it showed up on the Coast Commission agenda. 00:26:40
That appeal has been postponed now because the applicant signed the waiver of the 49 day limit or whatever it is so. 00:26:45
The city is supposed to be working with the applicant or vice versa, to resolve the issues in the Coastal Commission appeal. 00:26:57
Umm. 00:27:07
Which dealt with Esha. 00:27:09
And environmentally sensitive habitat area. 00:27:10
And water supply and one other that escapes me right now, but so. 00:27:13
I would assume that Planning Commission would be considered. 00:27:21
Persons of interest, and so I hope you received it, but one planning commissioner I spoke to had not received it, so that's why I 00:27:27
mentioned it and I will send it. 00:27:31
As soon as that I I am concerned about the. 00:27:38
Lack of following. 00:27:46
Procedures. 00:27:49
And responding to requests from bodies like the Coastal Commission, and this was in the middle of April. This is not involved our 00:27:50
new employees. 00:27:54
In CD who? 00:27:59
Seem to me very. 00:28:02
Very personable and eager to do a good job and I certainly hope they're getting the training they need for the complex. 00:28:07
Issues that that the city is dealing with. 00:28:17
But that is so I I hope you have that a copy of that appeal and in any case you will soon. Thank you. 00:28:21
Thank you. 00:28:30
Is there? 00:28:33
Anyone else? 00:28:34
We have one more hand raised. Here's Inga. Yeah, we're gonna allow Inga Lorenzen Dahmer to speak. Welcome. 00:28:37
Thank you. 00:28:45
And planning commissioners. That was an extensive list of letters, and somehow we still need to get a citywide policy of. 00:28:47
Putting them. 00:28:55
Publishing them. 00:28:56
On agendas or a late agenda so that the public can actually see the letters Also because. 00:28:58
That is part of public comment is that they are shared with the public and I appreciate your synopsis of them very much, Steve, 00:29:05
but it seems like you were the only one that got. 00:29:10
Your letter in there, over and over. 00:29:16
We need. I'll bring it up at council and with Mr. Gibbs. Yes, the cemetery was lovely. Yes, it needs work. And all of those issues 00:29:21
are the BNRC, including a plaque. 00:29:26
So I wish you would bring them up there. 00:29:32
Then I wanted to bring up to you the fact that yes as. 00:29:35
Council member Colletti. 00:29:39
Sad. 00:29:41
Heinz on the Peninsula was approved last night at the council meeting, 4:00 to 3:00. 00:29:42
With no coastal development permit. 00:29:49
No application for one either. 00:29:52
No traffic plan. 00:29:55
No. 00:29:58
Parking plan. 00:30:01
No, it was just an amazing. 00:30:03
Thing that I watched. 00:30:06
And I'm wondering that the. 00:30:08
Planning Commission, who specifically was very adamant to Mr. Gough and only gave him one year. 00:30:11
Of his. 00:30:18
He asked for five years of this blanket CDP for coastal things and I'm wondering when he's going to deal with this. 00:30:20
Because the CDP's. 00:30:28
Are specifically to be dealt with by the Planning Commission. 00:30:30
Before. 00:30:35
They're approved. 00:30:37
So. 00:30:39
It's one of those very interesting issues. 00:30:41
That we shall see what unfollow unfolds. 00:30:44
Umm. 00:30:48
Thank you very much. 00:30:50
Thank you. 00:30:52
Everyone else. 00:30:55
We have no more hands raised. 00:31:00
Alright then. 00:31:02
Vice Chair Murphy. 00:31:04
If if I may. 00:31:05
If I may, it's not our practice to respond to to public comment. 00:31:07
But if one of our decisions had been. 00:31:12
Was in fact appealed to the Coastal Commission. 00:31:15
I would have expected the director or staff to to have let us know. 00:31:18
And I I don't think that happened and if if you could bring that message to the director, that would be appreciated. 00:31:23
Thank you very much. 00:31:29
Thank you. 00:31:31
We now turn to the consent agenda, which deals with routine and non controversial matters and may include actions. 00:31:33
Resolutions, ordinances, or other public hearings for which testimony is not anticipated. 00:31:41
We have three items on the consent agenda this evening, the first under item 6A for information only. 00:31:47
Is Archaeological resources review and Tribal Monitoring Protocol update. 00:31:54
The second item, number six B, is the Planning Commission 2023 Work plan. 00:31:59
The third one is item 7A. 00:32:07
Although that's been pulled now from the agenda. So I guess we only have two items. So I stand corrected there. 00:32:10
Item 7A was the minutes from May 11th, but those are are going to be worked on some more in then I believe. 00:32:17
Submitted at our next meeting, so. 00:32:24
There's two items left, so would any commissioner like to remove either of these two remaining remaining items from the consent 00:32:27
agenda? 00:32:31
Vice Chair Murphy, I would not. I would like to ask. 00:32:36
Commissioner Sawyer. 00:32:39
If the minutes that she asked, you just go on. 00:32:41
Original minutes for the ones in Colorado. 00:32:45
They were the ones in the errata. 00:32:50
Umm. 00:32:55
Commissioner Sawyer. 00:32:57
Is Miss Halaby going to be present so that when she gives her report we could ask questions? 00:32:59
She is she. 00:33:08
She is on yes. 00:33:11
All right, she's on. She's on her zoom call. 00:33:12
So when it's report for information only, do we need to pull it? 00:33:15
And you need to pull it. So you want to pull it. 00:33:20
Like to pull it in if possible. 00:33:25
Could we put it first under the public hearings? 00:33:28
If there's no objection. 00:33:33
To that I would. 00:33:35
Agree. I don't think that would take a long time. 00:33:37
I will Is there are there any other I Well, there's only one remaining item on the consent agenda to poll. 00:33:43
Does anybody wanna pull? 00:33:50
Of the 2023 work plan. 00:33:53
Well, I will pull it. 00:33:55
So everything is off now and I I just have one comment to make about that. So that will be quick. So I would place that first 00:33:58
before everything else so we can get that out of the way. 00:34:05
So. 00:34:12
Since everything's been pulled, I I guess I don't need to ask the staff or the audience if they'd like to pull any item from the 00:34:14
consent agenda, because it's all done. 00:34:18
And so there is no need for a motion. 00:34:23
There's no need for calling the roll. 00:34:25
And so I I just want to make the comment about the work plan. 00:34:28
I update the work plan. 00:34:33
Between. 00:34:36
The current meeting and then the next meeting. 00:34:38
And to reflect what? 00:34:41
Occurred in. 00:34:43
For example, in tonight's meeting. 00:34:45
There is one item though that I will add for the consideration of the Planning Commission and our next meeting and that would be a 00:34:48
date for which. 00:34:52
Coastal development permits for special events. 00:34:57
That that. 00:35:02
That protocol or that process that was in the the motion at our last meeting. 00:35:03
That there be presented. 00:35:11
And I I would tentatively say maybe October, but I will consult with the public works director and the community development 00:35:13
director about an appropriate time for that. I just wanted to let you know that so that. 00:35:19
I wasn't doing that on my own. 00:35:26
So that item then is, is it? Unless there's any comment about that, Vice Chair Murphy. 00:35:29
Since we opened up. 00:35:36
Since we opened up the item, I'm wondering if you have to ask for public comment. I will ask for public comment just as a as a pro 00:35:39
forma matter. I mean, I don't know if there is, but we certainly should give the public. 00:35:44
The opportunity to comment on anything we do and so with that. 00:35:51
Mr. Campbell is does anyone have their hand raised? 00:35:57
We have one hand raised. One hand raised. OK, and that would be Lisa Chiani. Welcome. I would allow Lisa China to speak. 00:36:01
Thank you. 00:36:09
I just wanted to support that addition, especially considering the situation. 00:36:11
Last night and the. 00:36:19
Planning directors. 00:36:22
E-mail to me saying that the. 00:36:24
Agreed upon logical. 00:36:28
Process for reviewing CDP's for special events would be to go. 00:36:32
After the. 00:36:39
After the initial application to the Parks Department and the rec board, review would be to go. 00:36:41
To the Planning Commission. 00:36:48
For the CDP review before going to the. 00:36:51
Council. City Council. 00:36:54
Even though that was agreed upon by Commissioners and Mr. Go. 00:36:56
The. 00:37:01
Planning director maintains. 00:37:03
That. 00:37:05
That that doesn't start till next year. So with this late application that came through this year after all the other, after the 00:37:08
special events, calendar and all the other. 00:37:14
Special events had been. 00:37:20
Approved by Planning Commission. She still thinks we should go by the. 00:37:23
Non logical. 00:37:29
Process rather than the logical process. 00:37:32
So I I hope. 00:37:36
Anyway, that will get somehow ironed out. You can't take back the. 00:37:38
Councils. 00:37:46
Approval there was a lot of information that came out in in the. 00:37:47
In the City Council hearing of the matter, that was really quite amazing, the fact that. 00:37:54
They will close down. 00:38:02
Ocean View Blvd. from. 00:38:04
Jewel in 7th. Excuse me, Yeah, Jewel in 17th to. 00:38:06
CPOM for 12 hours from 6:00 AM to 6:00 PM that day and. 00:38:12
And fence off the public. 00:38:18
In the in the city, right of way the. 00:38:21
Coastal Rd. 00:38:24
And. 00:38:25
And sell 7065 or $70. 00:38:27
Tickets to. 00:38:30
For a beer fest, I guess. Or some. 00:38:32
Some such thing but anyway. And they expect 3000 people but they have no traffic plan or parking plan. 00:38:34
Yeah, 3000 people and 40. 00:38:42
Plus vendors. So I think there are coastal access issues. 00:38:45
OK. That's so. I'm glad you're going to be reviewing. 00:38:52
The. The. 00:38:56
Uh. 00:38:58
Policy the CDP process before. 00:38:58
The next round of. 00:39:02
Of special events for the next fiscal year. Thank you. 00:39:04
Thank you. 00:39:08
Are there any other comments? 00:39:10
If not, are there any comments from the Commission regarding or or discussion regarding? 00:39:13
The work plan which? 00:39:19
We have routinely put in the consent agenda for the last several meetings for the rest of the year. 00:39:22
If not, then I'll move on. 00:39:30
Next we have the item of the Archaeological Resource Review and Travel Monitoring Protocol update. 00:39:33
And that would be. 00:39:42
Her name on the agenda package is listed. That would be Joyce Halaby. Is she available to speak or is there someone else? 00:39:44
She's right there. 00:39:52
I'll allow Joyce Halaby to speak. Thank you. 00:39:54
Welcome. 00:39:59
Good evening, Terry, Lilly. 00:40:00
Planning Commissioners, this item was on the consent agenda, so I do not have a presentation prepared. 00:40:02
This is intended to just be an update to let you know where we're at with the development of the protocol. 00:40:08
And to let you know that we will be bringing the full protocol forward to the Planning Commission in July or August. 00:40:13
Umm. 00:40:19
And so it's taking a little bit longer than originally anticipated just with several changes in the community development 00:40:20
department and we really want to ensure that we get this protocol right. 00:40:23
And that the drivers have all the opportunity to review. 00:40:27
And provide comment and feedback so. 00:40:31
It will be coming to you in the very near future here and I'm happy to answer any questions that you might have about that 00:40:34
timeline. 00:40:36
OK. Does any Member of the Commission have any questions of of Miss Halaby, Commissioner Sawyer? 00:40:39
I am curious about the timeline. 00:40:46
Either July or August, and one of the reasons for the delay is related to the CD changes and concerns regarding implement. 00:40:52
Implement ability. 00:41:01
Could you go into that a little bit more so I have a better understanding of exactly what the issue is? 00:41:03
I'm happy to do that so. 00:41:12
I wouldn't say there's an issue. We just were reviewing the protocol with the new leadership and community development. 00:41:14
And we found some areas that we wanted to add information to, for example. 00:41:19
And there's significant language around affordable housing and things like that, just elements that needed to be included in the 00:41:24
protocol. 00:41:27
Some items that could qualify as exemptions. 00:41:31
So we really wanted to add that language in and with that we now also want to provide the tribes and other opportunity to take a 00:41:34
look at those changes. They have been heavily involved in the process from the get go. 00:41:39
And they were reviewed the first draft of the protocol, but now we are in the process of providing them with this second draft 00:41:44
with. 00:41:48
The additional edits because again, they're an integral part of this process. 00:41:51
So before bringing it back to you, we want to go back to the tribes. 00:41:55
So that they have an opportunity to review it. So that's. 00:41:58
What? What has shifted our timeline a little bit? 00:42:02
Can I continue? 00:42:07
My. 00:42:09
Next question is, I understand that Rincon did a draft that was comprehensive. 00:42:10
What was it exactly that got changed in? 00:42:17
Are we as a Planning Commission, going to be able to look at the draft that Rincon submitted to you? 00:42:21
So as I alluded to my previous statements, the changes are primarily related to the exemptions section of the protocol that you 00:42:30
will see. 00:42:33
And then some language pertaining to affordable housing. 00:42:37
We just want to be as clear as possible. 00:42:40
You know, when we bring this forward in terms of this is going to be a protocol that applies to all ground disturbance in the 00:42:42
city, public and private. So again, we really want to make sure that the language is clear that folks who look at this policy in 00:42:46
the future. 00:42:50
Can understand how it's intended to be implemented, both staff and the public. 00:42:54
So we really want to get this right. 00:42:57
So that so that's. 00:43:00
What the changes have been? 00:43:01
The changes that we've been making have been related to and again we want the tribes and opportunity to be able to review those 00:43:04
changes. 00:43:07
So you will be able to see the the formal protocol come forward in July and August. 00:43:11
That didn't really answer my question. If we're going to be able to look at the original draft. 00:43:18
We were planning to bring the draft forward as proposed, so we're going to bring forward a proposed draft, but I'm happy to in the 00:43:27
presentation include. 00:43:30
Some information on those changes that we've proposed. 00:43:34
So you'll show us a red line draft then, so we can see what the changes are. 00:43:38
I'm happy to include that information in the slide, but the actual protocol that will come before you will be the final version 00:43:44
that we're hoping. 00:43:47
To bring forward. 00:43:50
You mentioned that the tribes are to be reengaged. Has that process been begun yet and do the tribes? 00:43:53
Know that you wish to reengage with them and who will be doing that? 00:44:00
I will be taking that on alongside representatives from the Community Development department. 00:44:05
And we will initiate that process. 00:44:10
Is that anytime in the near future? Do you have a date for that? 00:44:14
I plan on doing that this week. 00:44:17
Ohh, good. Thank you. 00:44:20
Umm. 00:44:21
And then? 00:44:23
I just was curious because the original title was Cultural Resources and Tribal Monitoring Compliance Protocol. 00:44:26
It's now titled Archaeological Resource Review and. 00:44:33
Tribal monitoring protocol. 00:44:38
Why was the title change? Because that sort of gives a sort of different feel to what the report is. 00:44:43
Gonna be about. 00:44:49
Yeah, so the original title was something that we developed as staff. 00:44:51
The title change is since now been made and it's reflective of the title of the actual policy that we will be bringing forward. 00:44:55
And that's at this suggestion of Rincon. There are experts in this field. 00:45:00
They've developed protocols for the county and other. 00:45:05
Jurisdictions. So we went with that language at their at their recommendation. 00:45:08
All right. Thank you. 00:45:13
There are any other questions? 00:45:19
Vice Chair Murphy. 00:45:22
I. 00:45:24
I guess I'm not entirely sure what a. 00:45:25
A protocol means in this context. 00:45:28
And I'm wondering if. 00:45:31
This is something that will be integrated into the zoning code. 00:45:33
And perhaps into our local coastal program through an amendment. 00:45:38
Planning Commissioner Murphy. It is intended to be a protocol that is used by staff. 00:45:48
At the end. 00:45:53
Staff and the public. 00:45:55
As they're determining their project, so if there's ground disturbance, they'll review the protocol and see. Depending on they'll 00:45:56
be a very nice flow chart that they're able to reference and see what steps they need to take through the permitting process. 00:46:02
Umm. 00:46:08
To see whether or not they'll need to do. 00:46:10
Certain steps in order to ensure that our resources are properly protected, so it's going to be a protocol that's used at the 00:46:12
counter by our staff. 00:46:15
As well as information that's provided to the public as they're thinking about construction projects that maybe serve the ground 00:46:19
in the city. 00:46:22
OK. 00:46:26
Would it, or does it have the force of law? 00:46:27
It will be implementable, yes, because it is. 00:46:31
You know, it's building upon existing legislation, so Sequoia, AB 52, things like that, but it's taking it a step further to try 00:46:35
and clarify those. 00:46:39
Gray areas, but it'll be an implementable policy adopted by the City Council. 00:46:44
Thank you very much. 00:46:49
Are there any other questions? 00:46:52
I have one if if not. 00:46:55
Saliby, our next meetings are on July 3rd. Scheduled meetings are on July 13th and August 10th. You said July, August, so would 00:46:58
this be available or ready for us to review on August 10th? 00:47:04
That is my goal, yes. 00:47:11
Right. 00:47:13
At this point, if there's no other questions from the. 00:47:15
Commission, then I will open it for public comment. 00:47:19
Mr. Campbell, has anybody raised their hand? 00:47:23
We have one hand raised. 00:47:27
One hand raised, I will allow Lisa Chiani to speak. 00:47:29
Thank you. Welcome. 00:47:32
Thank you. I, I appreciate the questions by the commissioners. 00:47:34
Umm. 00:47:40
And so I'm I'm trying to revise a little of what I've. 00:47:41
Written because because there were some changes there but. 00:47:47
Umm. 00:47:51
Let's see this implementability well. 00:47:53
So we're told that new questions arose. 00:47:57
And that a new draft is now being reviewed internally and Joyce Halaby has said that additional edits. 00:48:00
Have been made. 00:48:09
And so so actual changes. 00:48:10
And therefore they are going to the tribes again for consultation. 00:48:14
I do have trouble with. 00:48:19
With consultation by. 00:48:22
The. 00:48:26
Who seems to the the public works? 00:48:27
Deputy director. 00:48:31
Who's seems to be very much. 00:48:33
Involved in this I I would rather. 00:48:36
Have the consultation be with a. 00:48:40
Impartial. 00:48:45
Person like the consultant who? 00:48:47
Who Miss Halaby seems to indicate is still involved and and should be because, as I understand it, there, there. 00:48:49
Contract was not. 00:48:59
The The full amount of the funding was not expended. 00:49:02
Since they were, they were supposed to be doing the presentation to. 00:49:06
To the Planning Commission and and to council the presentations so. 00:49:10
I I I. 00:49:15
I've forgotten if if Miss Halaby said that that is the case or if. 00:49:17
She's going to be presenting it, but. 00:49:23
In any case. 00:49:26
Umm. 00:49:27
You know, while we're waiting CD's, inconsistent practices and conditions of approval for ground disturbing work will. 00:49:29
Just continue and. 00:49:39
ARB and HRC are kind of floundering. 00:49:42
But I submitted a PR a request for the original Rincon draft last week, and I've been informed by the City Clerk. 00:49:45
That the Rincon draft is exempt from PR requests. 00:49:52
I've also been informed by her subsequently. 00:49:56
In response to my question, that quote staff has stated. 00:50:00
The draft documents are one and the same, so in other words. 00:50:04
The original Rincon draft draft and this edited draft that Miss Halaby is referring to are one and the same that that doesn't 00:50:09
compute to me. 00:50:15
Umm. 00:50:22
So. 00:50:24
It's hard to be confident in what we're being told by staff. 00:50:25
I hope we're going to see a full red line version of the consultants original draft, which is the only way we're really gonna 00:50:30
understand what was what. 00:50:35
Has or hasn't been changed? 00:50:41
Umm. 00:50:43
And. 00:50:44
OK. I guess then my last thing, my last point is simply we saw endless drafts of the local coastal program while it was being 00:50:49
developed. 00:50:53
And I would like to understand why this draft is not available to the public and the Planning Commission after almost two years. 00:50:59
Thank you. 00:51:06
Thank you. 00:51:08
Are there any other comments? 00:51:10
We have one more hand raised. Hand raised. I will allow Inga, Lawrence and Dahmer to speak. 00:51:12
Thank you very much. 00:51:19
Boy oh boy, I'm going to completely agree. 00:51:22
With Lisa's comments, and I'm going to thank the commissioners for trying to push for any little kernel of information. 00:51:26
And basically what I heard. 00:51:33
Was that they're working on exemptions. 00:51:36
I am not confident in staff doing this at all. 00:51:40
And it has been two years and the ARB and the HRC are thinking, the new members think that archaeology and these concerns are not 00:51:44
any of their concerns in issuing. 00:51:50
Architectural permits. 00:51:57
Literally. 00:51:59
The new ones saying, well, archaeology isn't in my job job description. Well, excuse me, it is. 00:52:01
Especially if you're approving a permit. 00:52:08
And plans. 00:52:10
And this putting off and putting off and the fact that has not. 00:52:12
The original draft has not come to the Planning Commission. It's just unconscionable. 00:52:17
It needs your input. 00:52:24
Frankly, I am. I am just not trusting staff to do this at all. They're looking for exemptions. 00:52:26
Thank you very much. 00:52:33
Thank you. 00:52:35
Are there any other public comments? 00:52:38
If not, then I will close the proceedings to further public comment. And is there any discussion on the Commission? 00:52:41
Regarding this. 00:52:50
Commissioner, sorry, do you have any comments since you had some questions? 00:52:53
I would encourage Miss Halaby to ensure that we get the original draft. 00:52:57
I would like a further report of. 00:53:05
What's going on with the meetings with the tribal members? Because I think that that's. 00:53:10
Really important and I do agree with Miss Channy and regards to. 00:53:17
Umm. 00:53:23
A non a non partial. 00:53:24
Person to do that. And if we still have the monies available for the consultant to do that, I would highly recommend that we do 00:53:29
that. 00:53:32
Just to ensure that we're doing the right thing. 00:53:36
Thank you. 00:53:40
Are there any other comments? 00:53:42
If not, I have one or a couple. Actually I don't understand the comment. 00:53:45
If I heard her correctly from Miss Halaby that this is a staff document and it wouldn't go through the regular. 00:53:50
Process. I think this is something that we need to consult with. 00:53:58
Legal counsel about because if we're applying standards to a. 00:54:01
Close to the development permit it it's got to be I think in the plan or seems to me that that's the logical approach, but. 00:54:07
That's going to be a question for Mr. Rubens and Mr. Purick. I suppose down the line we'll see what happens. So. 00:54:14
With that, if there's no other comments, I'll move on. 00:54:22
We're now to the regular agenda. How about that? 00:54:27
Tonight we have under. 00:54:31
Agenda item 8A. 00:54:33
Now a single quasi judicial review. 00:54:36
Because 8B has been continued. 00:54:39
Before we proceed, let me review our rules first. We will hear the staff report. 00:54:41
Then the applicant or proponent will be given 10 minutes to speak. 00:54:47
A designated spokesperson in opposition may also be given 10 minutes to speak. I say this because in controversial matters, we 00:54:51
encourage those known to represent the same position to designate a spokesperson. 00:54:57
To speak for the that entire group. 00:55:04
Brief rebuttal and surrebuttal will be allowed at our discretion. 00:55:07
I will then open the. 00:55:11
Hearing for public comments. Those wishing to speak may have 3 minutes each. 00:55:13
I will then close the hearing to further. 00:55:17
Communications. 00:55:20
From the applicant opponents and the general public, so the Commission can then ask questions to liberate and make a decision. 00:55:22
We should also be aware that findings and conditions are a necessary part of the decision making process. 00:55:29
Therefore, the Commission, at its pleasure, may either make a single motion that includes both findings and a decision. 00:55:35
Or make separate motions for a finding and decision. 00:55:42
And by the way, that also needs to have specific reference to Sequel compliance in in appropriate situations. 00:55:45
So now we are to Item 8A, architectural permit and coastal development permit. 00:55:54
22-0305 for 129 Forest Ave. Pacific Grove and I will now open the public hearing. 00:56:00
This agenda item was previously reviewed. 00:56:10
And recommended for approval on March 22nd and May 24th, 2023. 00:56:13
By the Historic Resources Committee. 00:56:18
Mr. Campbell, what is the staff for this review? Is that you or? 00:56:21
I will be giving you step report. 00:56:25
OK. 00:56:26
Then, before we proceed, does anyone on the Commission need to recuse or report an ex party communication? 00:56:28
Seeing none, then, Mr. Campbell, have you received notification from any group wishing to designate a spokesperson in opposition 00:56:36
to the project? 00:56:41
I have not. 00:56:47
OK, you have not. 00:56:47
With that, Mister Campbell, you may now proceed with your staff report. 00:56:49
Are these? 00:56:54
Was project is 129 Forest Ave. 00:56:55
The site is a 1912 square foot interior lot located on the east side of Forest Ave. between Ocean View Blvd. And Park Place. 00:56:59
It is currently developed with a 764 square foot, one story single family residence. 00:57:08
The property is located in the coastal zone and archaeologically sensitive area and the city's area of special biological 00:57:15
significance. 00:57:19
The property is also listed on the city's Historic Resources Inventory. 00:57:24
The parcel is located in an area consisting of small, medium and large size one and two-story residences and the Pacific Grove 00:57:28
Retreat neighborhood. 00:57:32
The properties immediately surrounding the project site are developed with two-story residences. 00:57:36
The proposed project includes the relocation of the existing residence approximately 4 feet, 8 inches further from the street, 00:57:42
thereby increasing the front setback to a conforming distance. 00:57:47
Constructing a new perimeter foundation and lowering the height by approximately 18 inches. 00:57:52
Partial demolition of approximately 132 square feet of a rear addition. 00:57:57
Replacement of windows with historically correct or period windows and construction of approximately 791 square feet of first and 00:58:02
second story additions. 00:58:06
The resulting 1390 Sevens square foot structure would include four 94191 square foot one story accessory dwelling unit. 00:58:11
Ministerially approved or state requirements. 00:58:21
And a 906 square foot two-story main dwelling. 00:58:24
The proposed structure will use exterior colors and materials that will blend with the surrounding natural streetscape and will 00:58:28
not introduce a substantive increase to the mass or appearance of the existing residents from the street. 00:58:34
The Phase Two Historic Assessment was prepared by qualified historian, which was Historic Resources Associates in November of 2022 00:58:41
and concluded that the proposed development would be consistent with the Secretary of the Interior Standards for Rehabilitation of 00:58:46
Historic Buildings. 00:58:51
Phase one archaeological study was conducted by the project site in April of 2022 by qualified archaeologist also with Historic 00:58:56
Resource Associates. 00:59:01
The study concluded that the subject property contains no indication of pre contact cultural sites, features or artifacts. 00:59:06
The project is conditioned to address inadvertent discovery of human remains and or cultural artifacts. 00:59:14
The proposed project is found to be categorically exempt under SEQUEL guidelines Section 15301 Class One existing facilities and 00:59:23
Section 15331 Class 31 Historical resource restoration or rehabilitation. 00:59:31
The proposed project is consistent with the General Plan, and the neighborhood within which the project is located is not 00:59:39
environmentally sensitive. 00:59:42
The exceptions to exemptions in section 15300.2 of the Sequel guidelines pertaining to location, cumulative impacts, significant 00:59:47
effects, scenic highways, hazardous waste sites, and historical resources do not apply to this project. Specifically, in this 00:59:53
case, the project would not cause a substantial adverse change. 00:59:59
And the significance of a historical resource. 01:00:05
An application for Coastal Development Permit was filed with the Community Development Department on December 12th, 2022. The 01:00:09
application submittal is consistent with the PGMC section 23 point 90.060 regarding application submittals. 01:00:17
Findings and related conditions of approval are included in the draft permit. 01:00:25
Due to the scope. 01:00:29
Which is a major remodel, including a second story addition and a new accessory dwelling unit. 01:00:31
Or accessory unit. The proposed project is not eligible for the standard residential CDP exemption per Pacific Grove Municipal 01:00:35
Code section 23.90 point 040A, which is the CDP exemptions for single family residence. 01:00:43
And CD staff forwarded a CDP determination to the California Coastal Commission on January 12th, 2023. 01:00:51
This concludes the staff presentation. And at this point, I'd like to ask our City Attorney, Brian Pernick to clarify discussion 01:01:00
parameters regarding projects involving ministerially approved accelerated accessory dwelling units. Can we have Brian? 01:01:08
Mr. Purick, are you here? I'm here. So thank you, Erin. 01:01:16
The, as Aaron mentioned, the AU portion of this project. 01:01:21
Is subject to ministerial approval, meaning that that is done at the staff level, not by the Planning Commission. 01:01:27
I would also mention that. 01:01:35
The Planning Commission does not have the authority to mandate any changes in the design or structural features of the AD U. 01:01:38
That's all set forth in the government code. 01:01:46
So in case there was any question about that. 01:01:49
Aaron asked me to make that clarifying statement. 01:01:52
And that's all I have on that point. 01:01:58
Thank you for that help. 01:02:00
And and chairman, we are available, We also, this is a point where Dara is also available if we have any other Sarah Sanders. 01:02:03
Yeah, myself and Aria. 01:02:08
Does she have any comment right now that she would like to add to the staff report or is that? 01:02:14
We OK. 01:02:19
I think. 01:02:20
We're OK, I could ask. 01:02:21
Well, I'm asking her. 01:02:23
No. 01:02:25
Thank you Chair Lilly, I have nothing to add at this time. 01:02:26
OK. Thank you. 01:02:29
So is the applicant present? 01:02:31
So please come forward. Identify yourself as other as well as other members of your group. Please. Is this on? Yeah. OK. I I'm, 01:02:34
I'm Bill Medford. I'm the architect for the owner. 01:02:40
Doug White. 01:02:45
And it's a I I feel like it's a relatively simple project. 01:02:47
We are moving the project back so that we have a little more space, be the house back from the street, so we have a little more 01:02:53
space. 01:02:56
In in the front to give it. 01:03:02
So it's not looming on the street as it was. 01:03:05
We the addition on the back we is kept as low as possible with just 8 foot ceilings in the both levels. 01:03:08
And I feel like it's. 01:03:17
And it's. 01:03:20
Basically at the very back and the that is the. 01:03:21
The. 01:03:26
Historic original historic house at the front is the Adu and then the the addition is the back is the two-story residence 01:03:27
basically. 01:03:31
We are using the materials to blend with the existing house. 01:03:38
And that's. 01:03:43
Pretty much so it. Any questions? 01:03:46
There any questions that the Commission has of the of the applicant Vice Chair Murphy? 01:03:49
I I noticed on. 01:03:55
A1 Of the plants that I think you're providing an uncovered parking space on the front. Yes that moving it back allowed us to be 01:03:57
able to actually put a an off street parking space in the plans Anyway, I didn't see a curb cut. 01:04:05
Ohh, well, there will be. I mean, yes, I I. 01:04:14
Yes, there will be a curb cut. 01:04:17
And and I also perhaps I I just didn't notice I. 01:04:19
I didn't see, you know. 01:04:23
I saw the data sheet how much of the wall. 01:04:26
Will be demolished. 01:04:29
But I couldn't tell from the plans what's going to be demolished. 01:04:30
For for exterior is, is. 01:04:34
The Basically the back wall of the house. 01:04:39
Is going to be demolished as far as the exterior goes. 01:04:42
Um And and the there's a non historic addition on the back that's being demolished. 01:04:46
Other than that, the the original house itself is pretty much staying as is. And is that little shed or garage on the north side, 01:04:51
is that going to be demolished? Yes, that's actually that's actually on the neighboring property. Ohh, yeah. 01:04:58
Address. 01:05:08
Now that that covers my questions. Thank you very much. I have questions. Commissioner Sawyer, you have a couple questions. Was a 01:05:10
lot surveyed at anytime. Yes, OK. And that just wasn't shown on our plan set the. 01:05:18
Yeah, I I we didn't. I guess I didn't, yeah. I didn't provide a survey. I mean it it is surveyed and that's how we got the 01:05:27
information, alright. 01:05:31
And then there is no lighting shown exterior lighting. 01:05:34
I wasn't aware that I needed to provide it. That is one of the things when you're asking for a coastal development permit, you 01:05:41
need to show that. And I I thought you probably weren't aware of that and I'll be asking some other questions if things you 01:05:45
probably weren't made aware of. 01:05:50
I didn't see any EVE information on your plan set either. 01:05:57
And I'm wondering. 01:06:04
If. 01:06:06
I see it. It's on your project. 01:06:07
Data sheet, but I need to see it on a plan as well. You mean how, how, how far it is from the property line etcetera. OK. Yeah, 01:06:10
Yeah. 01:06:14
And. 01:06:19
Also, there are no porch details and we do need to see the porch details because there are steps. 01:06:21
And and it's important to see that. 01:06:28
Not so much for the AU, but for the house part, there's one step up. 01:06:31
OK. But so we don't see it. OK. And that's, that's a question. The other question that I have is there's no differentiation 01:06:36
between the board and Batten, between the old part of the house and the new part of the house. 01:06:43
So the the, the in the historic review committee. 01:06:50
We discussed that and the the original board and Batten is true Board and Batten. 01:06:55
And I believe it's about 12 inch spacing. The the new board and bat board and Batten is plywood with batons and historic review 01:07:02
committee and it will be a different, a different spacing. 01:07:09
And that would have been appropriate to put on the plan as well because that's really important when you're doing historic, OK. 01:07:16
Curb cut wasn't shown. 01:07:24
And then the. 01:07:26
Parking space. Is it a full 99 feet by 18 and half? Yes. 01:07:27
Umm. 01:07:35
That's considered a compact space. So what's a compact space? Because a compact space I believe is 17 by 8 1/2. 01:07:36
Okay or by 8 actually I think it is. And so the assumptions being made that there's only going to be compacts right in there, yes. 01:07:44
OK. 01:07:48
Umm. 01:07:52
Also, the other thing that the CDP does ask for is the site plan demonstrating existing development on the property, which would 01:07:54
include the fence. 01:07:58
And if there was a garage on the property, the property the again the garage is on the neighbouring property, OK, but we do need 01:08:03
to see the fence, just so that you're aware, I I don't believe there's a fence separating the two. 01:08:09
There is a fence on the property when I drove past it today on the sides. 01:08:16
And the back. 01:08:20
Oh, OK. 01:08:21
OK. 01:08:22
And. 01:08:23
I also wondered about changing the amount of impervious surface area. 01:08:24
Because you've increased it by about 25%. Is there a way to change what the sidewalks are and maybe make them? 01:08:30
Pervious, because I really appreciate what you did with the parking space. That was great. That was wonderful. Really. I I was 01:08:40
like, woohoo. Yeah, but you're increasing the pervious, right, The impervious. And and that's a concern. 01:08:47
With our water system. So I'm just wondering if that's something that could be looked at. Yes, we can. We have pavers, we can look 01:08:55
at pavers for the siding. 01:08:59
And then you're not gonna like this question, but I have to ask it. 01:09:03
Because I don't understand. 01:09:07
How are you going to move the house? Where is it gonna go? Where is the dirt gonna go? Put equipment on there And how is the house 01:09:09
not going to fall down? 01:09:14
Well, that is up to the That's actually up to the house movers. They the. 01:09:20
The. 01:09:25
I was just involved in 144 Forest where they actually lifted the house. They didn't move it, but they lifted the house. 01:09:27
In order to put foundation underneath of it and we used, I don't even remember the name of the company, but we use it very good 01:09:35
house lifting moving company from the Bay Area that will probably be used for this one as well. OK. And and the reason why I ask 01:09:40
is we've had history here in Pacific Grove. I noticed that one, how's the following polls and I just didn't want that to happen. 01:09:45
Yes. 01:09:50
And then? 01:09:57
Where is the fiber lasque door going to be placed? It's the the front door. 01:09:59
Of what of of of both units? 01:10:04
They're there, it's painted, so even if it were a wood door, it's going to look. 01:10:06
Saying. 01:10:11
OK. I just haven't had any experience with fiberglass doors and I was, you know, it's it's, it's yeah, it's smooth it it once when 01:10:12
they're painted they it looks just like a wood door. OK. Thank you. 01:10:18
And that's. 01:10:25
The end of my questions. 01:10:27
Thank you. OK. 01:10:29
Any other questions? 01:10:30
Commissioner Netsky, thank you Chair Lily. Well, the curb cut removal parking spot from the street. 01:10:32
More than likely. I I, I'm not exactly certain where, right? Because they're neighbors and stuff. I mean, racist, Yeah. 01:10:41
Right. 01:10:48
More more more than likely it's it's near it's close to the neighbouring curb cut. 01:10:50
So it's yeah, it's not like it's going to be in the middle of the site where it really. 01:10:58
Breaks up two spots. 01:11:03
So. 01:11:07
The curb cut is going to be close to the other neighbors curb cut, correct? When I drove past there today, that is a very. 01:11:09
Busy St. park on. 01:11:18
So basically what you're doing with your curb cut is taking out two parking places. Is that correct? No one. 01:11:21
You're taking out one, but if your curb cut is close to the neighbor, that's. 01:11:29
Taking out that. 01:11:34
Parking space as well, well the the the neighbouring curb cut is. 01:11:35
Almost at our property line, OK. And our curb cut is almost at the same property line. OK, alright, OK, good. Yeah. 01:11:40
Thank you. 01:11:48
Any other questions? 01:11:50
I I I had a couple. So the the new the AU part is the two-story in the back. No, the D part is the first story in the one story in 01:11:52
the front, one story in the front. Yes, I see that there is a slight difference in the plans between the the distances between the 01:11:57
bats. 01:12:02
Yes. 01:12:08
Yes, so. 01:12:09
Umm. 01:12:11
Then in the front it it talks about wood windows, yes. And then the back clad in no in the back, in in the back. 01:12:13
Are we doing? I forget, remember? 01:12:23
We're doing fiberglass. 01:12:25
Yeah, yeah. So on the on the new part, we're doing fiberglass windows. 01:12:27
And on the on the historic part, we're doing wood windows. The Anderson windows that we're using literally look exactly the same. 01:12:31
Wood versus you know, as far as their profiles and stuff go? 01:12:39
Well I'm asking that question because I went through the same thing the city wouldn't let me do. Clad windows in our yeah window 01:12:43
historic house. Right, right. So the the the the the fiberglass windows are gonna be in the new construction area. OK, Not in the 01:12:49
historic part. Right. Alright so then that's it works then recording to the. 01:12:55
Director of our Secretary of the Interior. 01:13:01
Standards correct. 01:13:04
All right. Is there, are there, Commissioner, in Nuzenski, so? 01:13:08
It. 01:13:12
During the historical review. 01:13:14
I'm I'm surprised that. 01:13:16
We're having a historical building that's going to be really just not being able to see from the street, is that right? No, the 01:13:18
historic building is is seen from the street. That's what you see. 01:13:22
The one story part is the historic building. 01:13:26
But that's going to be in the front or in the back. That's in the front. 01:13:29
The the the so so the Adu is in the back no? 01:13:32
No, the AD is the one story part. 01:13:36
And that is the historic building, the in the front. 01:13:39
The. 01:13:42
The Adu is the historical building. The Adu is the is the is in the front, which is the 8 which is the historic building. OK, OK. 01:13:44
Usually a DUI is usually a new. It seems something like it's a new part, but I understand. No, no, Yeah, yeah. 01:13:52
OK. 01:13:58
OK. 01:14:00
Alright, do we have we have that straight then? 01:14:02
Well, well, thank you for your for your information and Commissioner. 01:14:06
Kubica. 01:14:13
Once you turn on your mic. 01:14:16
Have a question and maybe I missed it. A sprinklers, are there sprinklers in both sections? There will be, yes and even in the 01:14:20
Edu, yes. OK. Thank you. 01:14:24
All right. We'll now open the item for public comment. 01:14:29
Are there any public comments regarding this application? 01:14:35
We have one hand raised. I will allow leases. 01:14:40
Alisa Gianni to speak. 01:14:44
Thank you. Welcome. 01:14:46
Thank you. I'm asking for a tribal monitoring condition of approval during ground disturbing work, primarily for a new foundation 01:14:48
I believe. 01:14:53
Considering the greater than usual archaeological sensitivity of the specific coastal zone area where this project is located. 01:14:58
The conditions of inadvertent discovery in the permit. 01:15:06
Are not the same as having a tribal monitor on site during all ground disturbance. 01:15:09
And as the Project Archaeologist said at the March 22nd HRC meeting, it's quote. 01:15:14
Up to the city to decide how they want to approach monitoring. End Quote. 01:15:21
Here's a sample tribal monitoring condition of approval that's been used at ARB quote. 01:15:26
Prior to ground disturbing activities relating to new construction, the applicant shall contract with the local tribal 01:15:32
representative. 01:15:36
To conduct, excuse me on site monitoring for the duration of the ground disturbing activities, the applicant shall provide a copy 01:15:40
of the contract to the CD prior to commencement of work. End Quote. 01:15:46
I sent the Planning Commission a screenshot of the cover of an archaeological report that archaeologist Gary Bruschini prepared 01:15:52
for the city of PG in 2005. 01:15:57
For a large wastewater stormwater project. 01:16:02
In the report, which is confidential but should be in the city's possession, and he gave me a copy, there is a mapped 01:16:05
archaeological site very nearby on the same block on the next street over. 01:16:10
Designated C AM and T 119 and map sites designated Cam NT 110 and C AM NT111 in close proximity to the projects. That is well, 01:16:16
previous disturbance of this site does not rule out the likelihood of archaeological resources. 01:16:25
Finding no evidence of archaeological resources on the property in a superficial survey does not rule out the likelihood of 01:16:35
archaeological resources there. 01:16:39
Doctor Piscani explains in his report The Importance of Small Project Archaeology and Pacific Grove quote, beginning at about 01:16:45
Monterey's Fisherman's Wharf and extending along the entire shoreline in the Monterey Peninsula. 01:16:51
From moderate Carmel, a distance of about 12 miles, there is a rocky shore which contained a wide variety of equal, easily 01:16:58
accessible food resources. 01:17:03
Not surprisingly, the archaeological deposits are virtually continuous in this area and often extend from the coast to 500 or more 01:17:08
metres inland. 01:17:14
Along the facing shoreline of new moderator. 01:17:19
This area seems to be virtually 1. 01:17:24
Takes archaeological deposit with few definite boundaries, while each parcel and each small project may only be able to contribute 01:17:26
a small amount of data. 01:17:31
The information can accumulate End Quote. 01:17:37
Consistent with LCP policies, DRS one and two, I request that you make tribal monitoring during ground disturbance a condition of 01:17:40
approval in addition to the inadvertent discovery conditions. 01:17:46
In an area of designated archaeological sites sacred to the Aloni Costanoan Esselen Nation. 01:17:52
Thank you. 01:17:58
Thank you. 01:18:00
And we'll are there any other comments? 01:18:03
We have one more hand raised. Inga, Lorenz and Dahmer welcome. 01:18:08
Thank you very much. 01:18:15
I'm going to absolutely agree. 01:18:17
With Lisa. 01:18:19
And this was one of those meetings where the new people didn't seem to understand that archaeology is part of the job description. 01:18:21
And this one is very important, especially in absence of our protocols, so to speak. 01:18:29
For two years. 01:18:39
Umm. 01:18:41
I think it's the Laurel even explained that the city does have a contract. 01:18:43
Already in place? 01:18:50
To call tribal. 01:18:52
And this is one of those times that I think it should definitely be. 01:18:54
A condition. 01:19:00
Thank you very much. 01:19:01
Thank you. 01:19:04
Any other comments? 01:19:08
If not, then we will proceed to. 01:19:10
Discussion I will close the hearing to further public comment. 01:19:14
So with that. 01:19:19
Commencing with discussion, who would like to start Vice Chair Murphy? 01:19:22
Thank you, Mr. Chair. 01:19:27
This this is a question for for staff and the the staff report and the report the. 01:19:29
The Phase Two by Historic Resources Associate. 01:19:36
Says this project meets the federal standards the Secretary of Interior Standards for Rehabilitation. 01:19:40
Because it's retaining its use as a single family residence. 01:19:47
And that seems off to me. It's it's turning into a multifamily, a primary unit, and A and an Adu. 01:19:52
It doesn't. I guess my real question is, does that matter? 01:20:01
In this case, and I did discuss this with Dora today, and she can jump in at any moment, but the state does not. 01:20:05
Consider these a multifamily because if it's an AU and since the state doesn't consider it, then it is still a single family for 01:20:14
the secretary of the interiors OHH interest payments. Thank thank you very much. Yes, as far as the and STR. 01:20:23
Am I right? 01:20:33
That the. 01:20:34
Adu part cannot be under our code cannot be used as an SDR, but the main unit could is or do I? Do I have that correct? 01:20:35
Yes. 01:20:44
Believe so. I'd have to check because I that's I haven't gotten. 01:20:45
Being the new guy. 01:20:49
Have I gotten too deep into the SDR? But I believe so. OK, and. 01:20:51
And. 01:20:55
Is parking actually required? I mean, it's an AU and A and it's in the the retreat area? No. For an ADO, no. 01:20:56
So so for this. 01:21:06
This project. No parking is required. Parking is required. OK. 01:21:08
Umm. 01:21:11
From the cities point of view. 01:21:16
You know the applicant is is offering parking. 01:21:19
But it will remove a. 01:21:23
At least a spot because of the curb cut. So it's sort of a. 01:21:25
Does the city care or have a preference? 01:21:29
I couldn't speak to that actually. 01:21:33
I wouldn't. 01:21:35
Yeah. I I wouldn't really comment on that. I I see. Yeah. 01:21:38
Yeah. 01:21:42
May I chime in here. 01:21:45
Thank you. Thank you. 01:21:47
So in terms of the SPR question. 01:21:50
If this is considered a Junior AU, which I believe it, it probably is being considered a Junior AU. 01:21:54
There would be a requirement. 01:22:02
For the property to be occupied by the owner so so that would one eliminate the. 01:22:06
Ability for anyone to rent out the AU portion as a short term rental, but it would also require that the property owner either 01:22:16
live. 01:22:21
In the primary unit and the the single family home. 01:22:26
Or occupy the junior AU itself. 01:22:29
As far as the the parking requirements there. 01:22:33
We can look at it two ways, the parking space, the driveway, essentially. 01:22:40
Could be considered bringing the single family home closer to conformance with the city's off street parking requirements. 01:22:46
But then at the same time, you know, the Coastal Commission is very much interested in maintaining public parking as part of their 01:22:54
accessibility policies for coastal access. 01:23:00
So we we could go either way in terms of. 01:23:06
How we would like to treat or or approach that? 01:23:12
That that driveway being introduced to the property. 01:23:17
Thank, Thank you. 01:23:22
Any other? 01:23:25
Comments from Staff Commissioner Sawyer. 01:23:27
Umm. 01:23:30
I believe that this is an Adu, not a JADU. Is that correct? 01:23:31
OK. 01:23:37
And my understanding too in regards to parking requirements, because the size of the lot you are not required. 01:23:38
To provide parking for the AU, nor for the house. And so you are doing this just to make things easier. 01:23:44
OK. Thank you. 01:23:52
Umm. 01:23:53
I do have a number of questions for staff. Aaron, Are you ready? 01:23:54
Absolutely. One of the things that I it's just a moot point but. 01:24:01
If our agenda report could address the correct Commission, please, it says to the HRC. 01:24:06
We're not the HRC. 01:24:12
And do you know what the Coastal Commission said when they saw the CDP application? Was there any issue with it? 01:24:15
I'd have to look at that report and I don't have it right in front of me. I'd be happy to get back to you on that. I'll look into 01:24:25
it and see what, see what kind of response they had, alright. 01:24:30
Umm. 01:24:34
And then I'm just looking at the local coastal implementation plan 2390.060. 01:24:35
For CDP applications submitted, A1 states that there has to be a clear depiction of all existent development on the site. 01:24:43
That was not presented to you. 01:24:53
Because they didn't show the fence. 01:24:56
And the garages doesn't belong to them, which I didn't know. So that was good. 01:24:59
And then I had a question. 01:25:03
It also stated in a six under that same that. 01:25:06
They had to have a dated signature by all or on behalf of applicants. 01:25:11
When you go to do the CDP permit and we only have one applicant signing. 01:25:18
Are you the main? 01:25:24
Person. 01:25:26
OK. 01:25:28
I just wasn't sure, so that's why I had to ask. 01:25:29
OK, let me interject there. That may be a legal question it depends on. 01:25:31
Possibly And and Mr. Pirie or Miss Sanders, you may want to jump in. 01:25:38
May depend upon whether the title says or or, and among the names I I don't know, but. 01:25:44
Any any comments from either one of you? 01:25:50
And I'm not sure I understood the question. Could you say that again? 01:25:57
Commissioner Sawyer asked the applicant if they were the. 01:26:01
There, there are four owners. Let me start again. There are four, four owners of the property. There's only one signature on the 01:26:06
application. 01:26:09
Commissioner Sawyer asked the applicant if if. 01:26:13
His signature was the only one required and and he appeared to answer yes. And so my comment is that may be a legal question that 01:26:17
we should probably address with with council. 01:26:23
Well property can be held in a number of ways. It can be held in joint tenancy. 01:26:30
Which typically you would see or. 01:26:36
Or it can be a tenant in common. 01:26:40
And that typically you see? 01:26:42
You know, John and Mary for example, and then they would be tenants in common and they would have an equally undivided interest. 01:26:45
Umm. 01:26:53
Is there as the person who signed this application? 01:26:54
Represented that he's got the authorization from the other owners. 01:26:58
I'm not sure I'll ask through as the chair of the Miss or Commissioner Sawyer can ask is the applicant if that's the case? 01:27:04
That is the case you. 01:27:15
That that has been shown or can be shown or has been shown. 01:27:17
Well, we don't have any documents in front of us that do. 01:27:23
But it can't. 01:27:26
Well, what you could do I suppose is. 01:27:30
Ask for, you know, make whatever action you're taking conditional upon. 01:27:33
Umm. 01:27:37
Written confirmation from. 01:27:38
The owners that they. 01:27:42
You know agree with the proposed application. 01:27:44
All right. 01:27:49
OK. Thank you. 01:27:51
Thank you. May I continue? I have more questions. Sorry. 01:27:52
I have a question in regarding. 01:27:59
Meeting the DS. 01:28:02
1. 01:28:04
Out of our land use policy, it says all new development shall be consistent with requirements of the certified. 01:28:06
Local Coastal Plan and that is one of the. 01:28:11
Conditions that you cite, however. 01:28:15
There's no lighting element shown. 01:28:18
And there's no existing development on the lot shown either. 01:28:21
So I'm just wondering how can we say it needs DS? 01:28:26
DS1. 01:28:30
Dora, can you address that if that's. 01:28:33
Sure so. 01:28:38
Commissioner, Sir, you're you're referring to? 01:28:41
The sort of completeness items that would typically be reviewed by the intake planner who was vetting that that application. 01:28:44
There are a couple of ways that we could approach this. 01:28:55
We could condition add additional conditions. 01:28:59
Who the the approval document should the Planning Commission be inclined? 01:29:04
Approved today to update the plans with that information to comply with the the requirements any sort of additional regulations. 01:29:09
That may be associated with those elements that are required to be shown on the on the project. 01:29:20
Or the Planning Commission could continue the item requiring that the additional information be shown. 01:29:26
And and act on the application at a later date. 01:29:33
Great. Thank you. 01:29:38
Umm, I think. 01:29:41
I just had a question about some of the architectural guidelines #10. 01:29:46
Would be regarding lighting and #12 would be light fixtures and. 01:29:52
That wasn't mentioned and it seemed like it wasn't. 01:29:57
Because it wasn't shown on the plan, so just wondering about that. 01:30:00
Just a comment and then my last question. 01:30:05
Don't all clap. 01:30:09
Is there are there enough water credits for three bedrooms, 2 kitchens and three baths? 01:30:11
Thank you. 01:30:20
That's it. 01:30:24
Great. Thank you. 01:30:25
Commissioner, Vice Chair Murphy. 01:30:28
I don't know. 01:30:30
Other commissioners still have questions, but I. 01:30:32
I think this is a good project. 01:30:34
I would favour Miss Sanders. 01:30:37
Recommendation that we. 01:30:41
Condition. 01:30:43
That the the missing items on the on the plants that are provided. 01:30:46
To staff before it goes to the building department. 01:30:51
Umm. 01:30:55
I I am interested to hear. 01:30:56
From other. 01:30:59
Commissioners about the idea of tribal monitoring. 01:31:01
And I it's it's a difficult issue and I'm not I'm not sure how I how I feel. 01:31:05
And and part of how I feel would be determined by what staff tells me. 01:31:11
Umm. 01:31:16
The the current condition is for any inadvertent finding. 01:31:17
Work stops until it's it's dealt with. 01:31:22
What, if anything? 01:31:26
Does our staff do? 01:31:28
As far as meeting with the. 01:31:30
Contractors or Workers to. 01:31:33
To tell them what the rules are and how to respond and who? Who does that do? Does the city do it? Does the? 01:31:35
Architect drew it the building. I don't, I don't know who does that. 01:31:42
It is included in our permits and our building permits, so they are notified. 01:31:47
From our documentation to them through through these approvals. 01:31:53
And what was suggested as well is is to. 01:31:59
Contact. 01:32:05
Have have have the CD staff. 01:32:07
Notified if this happens and then we can we can move from there as well as a condition. 01:32:10
And it's really notification of what's found, not, you know, not having someone on site. But if something happens to be found, 01:32:17
notified CDC staff there are already hold to notify the authorities. Of course there are. 01:32:24
And this is all in our application or in our our permitting. 01:32:32
Part of the process and part of the approvals that they receive. 01:32:37
Thank you. 01:32:41
Would like well does anybody have any further comments and and if not well I'm sure you do but I also in your comments like well 01:32:45
in response to Vice Chair Murphy's comment if you have any comment about the. 01:32:52
Or observations about the tribal monitoring and that would be the time to say so. 01:33:00
So. 01:33:05
Commissioner Sawyer. 01:33:06
My feeling about the tribal monitoring is that this is a site that has been. 01:33:08
Relatively undisturbed. I mean it was disturbed initially, but that house has been there for quite some time. There's been little 01:33:14
extra. 01:33:18
Done to it. 01:33:22
And it's mostly probably on the surface. 01:33:24
And my thought is that. 01:33:28
It probably would be a good idea to have a tribal monitor there. 01:33:32
Because it's right by those other sites. 01:33:36
And. 01:33:40
Again. 01:33:41
As Miss Johnny noted, just doing a little surface survey doesn't really tell you if you're going to find anything when you're 01:33:42
digging for the foundations. 01:33:47
So that's a concern. 01:33:53
We shouldn't Rosinski. I guess my question is how often is tribal monitoring done in when projects similar to this? 01:33:58
What's been the city's experience? 01:34:06
I don't know. Perhaps. 01:34:10
Dora Sanders could could answer that if it's if. 01:34:15
Thank you, Aaron. Unfortunately I haven't had the. 01:34:20
Long term experience and Pacific growth to speak to other similar projects of this scale. 01:34:27
Requiring A tribal monitor. 01:34:36
You know the the sort of the rate of. 01:34:41
Discoveries associated with projects at the scale and and heavily developed areas are or densely developed areas. 01:34:46
I will say, however, that it is not unusual to have tribal monitors in areas where there are potential. 01:34:54
Discoveries or resources that aren't that could be uncovered. 01:35:04
It may not. 01:35:09
It's. 01:35:12
I would say that it's. 01:35:13
Not an overbearing requirement of. 01:35:16
Properties in historic districts are culturally sensitive areas. 01:35:22
Umm. 01:35:27
We typically in areas where where we know some artifacts may be found. 01:35:28
Or areas of of historical or or cultural significance. 01:35:34
Where? Where they have had discoveries. 01:35:40
It's always helpful to have that tribal monitor just to ensure that the the discoveries are. 01:35:43
Umm. 01:35:50
Are reported appropriately to city staff. 01:35:52
And so that we can also handle the discoveries. 01:35:56
Appropriately and preserve those those resources that may be uncovered through the construction process. 01:36:00
Typically not something that we would that monitoring that we would see from. 01:36:07
Groundbreaking to certificate of occupancy. It's typically a very short window window of time, so I don't believe that it would be 01:36:13
an over. 01:36:17
Burdensome condition to place on this particular property? 01:36:21
Thank you. 01:36:27
Vice Chair Murphy, if I could ask a question of the applicant. 01:36:29
Sure. 01:36:33
And if you wouldn't mind. 01:36:34
Coming to the microphone. 01:36:36
The applicant, I guess that's. 01:36:39
Yeah. 01:36:42
Well, I think, I think it's. 01:36:43
I I think so. 01:36:45
The owner is the one that has to pay for it. 01:36:50
I was trying not to go there. 01:36:53
How long do you anticipate ground disturbing activity would? 01:36:57
Would last. I would say it's probably going to be 6 weeks, maybe 8. 01:37:01
OK. Thank you. 01:37:12
Commissioner Sawyer. 01:37:15
Umm. 01:37:18
So that ground disturbing, is that going to be with your heavy equipment moving in and out and moving the dirt? 01:37:19
Etcetera, etcetera. Well, there won't be able to be real heavy equipment because of the fact that it's going to be. 01:37:27
Under. 01:37:35
Being dug under a house, it'll it'll be a lot of. 01:37:35
Not necessarily hand digging, but not big. 01:37:40
Pieces of equipment. 01:37:43
Cool. 01:37:47
If you would like, go ahead and go ahead and finish your question, yeah. And then. 01:37:48
Right. 01:37:54
The owner speak but umm. 01:37:54
My concern is. 01:37:56
That street is. 01:37:58
Pretty busy, right? And. 01:38:00
Is there a traffic plan? 01:38:02
That you've come up with to sort of mitigate the equipment being there and? 01:38:04
People being parked there etcetera, etcetera, because it. 01:38:10
When I drove past there today, every parking space was full and because it was a lovely day. 01:38:14
Right. I will let the owner answer that because he's more involved in in that, the specifics of how that's going to be. 01:38:20
Handled. 01:38:27
OK. 01:38:29
Any. 01:38:30
The applicant can come to the podium please and answer Commissioner Sawyer's question. 01:38:34
You have a question. 01:38:40
Dentify yourself. I'm sorry. I'm Doug White and I'm the owner of 129 Forest. 01:38:43
Most of the digging will be done by hand for the most part because of its size and what we have and how soft the surfaces are. 01:38:49
I happen to own a lot next door, too. 01:38:57
Ohh okay. 01:38:59
And I own the house. 01:39:01
On the right hand side as well. Ohh, it's on the side. 01:39:03
Ohh my fiance on 133 forest and I was a builder of 133 forest and we lifted that one as well which is 3/4 times the size. 01:39:06
OK. 01:39:16
So, and I'm a contractor. I'm a industrial contractor as well. 01:39:18
OK. How high do you lift the building? 01:39:22
You don't lift them so much. Yeah, that's what I was. OK, you actually just raise them up, right? You raise them up, then you dig 01:39:25
under. 01:39:28
And most of the most of it is dug out. 01:39:33
And with the house coming back 4 1/2 feet. 01:39:35
We're not going to be really so much into. 01:39:38
Virgin land, so to speak. 01:39:43
Because previously. 01:39:45
And we have some of the historical data. 01:39:47
Previous reports that Dana did. 01:39:50
There's been an out there was an outhouse out. 01:39:52
Please call that. 01:39:54
So there's other structures in the back, so it's not. 01:39:56
3%. 01:39:59
Property right there. 01:40:03
And. 01:40:05
One other thing with the parking spot. 01:40:06
We're swapping one parking spot for our driveway because there's. 01:40:08
There's currently. 01:40:12
An old type apron. 01:40:15
For that little garage that's there. 01:40:18
So we're gonna remove that apron. 01:40:20
Yeah. 01:40:22
Cut anyway. 01:40:23
That's kind of a wash. 01:40:25
OK. 01:40:26
So let me ask you a question. So you're really exchanging 1 curb cut for another, Is that what you're saying? Pretty much. 01:40:29
OK. 01:40:36
Any you have any other questions of the applicant? Well, since he knows, absolutely I'm going to ask, but so do you have a plan 01:40:38
for trucks and where people are going to park, what you're going to do with some of the equipment the lot next door? 01:40:46
So you can park on your lot then, is what you're saying I'm going to give myself permission. 01:40:54
Yeah, good. 01:41:00
All right. 01:41:03
Yeah, sure. Commissioner Davison. Thanks, Doug, Just out of curiosity, do you have development plans for the adjacent lot, the 01:41:04
empty lot that's currently there? Not yet. 01:41:08
But in the future, is that something that you would consider? 01:41:13
We would like to, OK. 01:41:16
So with that, maybe have all washed the other direction again, where it might require another apron. 01:41:18
That would probably. 01:41:23
Conceivably, we don't have land yet. 01:41:25
Correct. 01:41:27
Cool. Thanks. 01:41:28
And these are not for sale. These are. 01:41:31
These are properties and I'm going down basically. 01:41:33
This will end up being my single story when I get old. 01:41:36
Retirement. 01:41:39
Vice Chair Murphy. 01:41:42
Forgive me, I'm not that familiar with construction, is it? 01:41:44
Right, That there's no foundation now. 01:41:49
That's correct. 01:41:51
And most empire. 01:41:52
So there's been. 01:41:55
How much digging does that mean that would have been in the past to to create that? 01:41:57
I really can't say because I don't know how far they went down. 01:42:03
OK. Thank you. 01:42:08
But it's it, it would be relatively minor and we're not going to go down really that deep. 01:42:09
For this, I can't speak off the top of my head because. 01:42:16
We don't have that specific engineering, but it's going to be pretty minor. 01:42:19
Thank you. 01:42:23
Are there any other comments, especially about the the issue of of the? 01:42:26
Vice Chair Murphy asked about the tribal monitoring. Thoughts about that. Commissioner Zinski, did you have any comments about 01:42:32
that or? 01:42:36
How would you, how would you feel about if we require tribal monitoring and and and what happened when you moved the other house? 01:42:40
And the other property. 01:42:49
We actually dug a basement. 01:42:51
And there was no tribal monitoring and we found nothing. 01:42:53
It was. It was sad. 01:42:57
It was literally sand and. 01:42:59
It's something I'm quite interested in, so I was watching. 01:43:01
I was. I was watching that one. 01:43:05
Thank you. 01:43:08
And how would I feel about tribal monitoring? 01:43:10
The cost of it would scare me. It's gonna slow down my project. 01:43:14
Where does the city stand on the? 01:43:20
Those other projects. 01:43:22
Having done it, it sounds like. 01:43:24
I might be the first. 01:43:26
Which I? 01:43:28
Necessarily wanna be. 01:43:29
OK. Any other comments about that issue or because I have Commissioner Davidson? 01:43:34
I have maybe an A less palatable thought on the tribal monitoring where I think if we go on, you know, historic use of tribal 01:43:41
monitoring if we are thinking about new protocols. 01:43:46
That maybe we should think about the forward thinking way that we are going to be doing trouble monitoring moving forward rather 01:43:52
than referring to previous projects. I know that that's not a great or not a palatable option for you. 01:43:59
I'm. I'm. 01:44:06
5050 I'm driving wondering myself. I think that they're. 01:44:07
They're likely will not be. 01:44:12
Anything there. But there is a chance that there could be and that especially if it doesn't have a foundation already, there will 01:44:13
be some pretty significant excavation areas that probably haven't been excavated. 01:44:18
But also understanding that that is a burden on. 01:44:25
You know development. 01:44:27
As far as, let me make a couple of comments as far as the tribal monitoring goes, I mean I'm sympathetic to the idea of doing 01:44:31
that, but and perhaps this becomes a legal question, but. 01:44:36
By making such a condition or we creating. 01:44:43
New rules or rules of our own? 01:44:47
We're not a policy making authority that's here. This is, that's the role of the City Council. 01:44:50
We don't have an ordinance that requires this, so I don't see. 01:44:56
How we get from A to BA being where we are now and B. 01:45:00
Requiring. 01:45:05
Tribal monitoring, I I just don't see that. Perhaps someone could explain that to me. Maybe Mr. Pierrick? 01:45:06
I see Commissioner Davidson has his hand raised so. 01:45:13
Just to refer to what Lisa Chani brought up, it sounds like there are new protocols that are coming, maybe with the the August 01:45:16
development plan. So maybe we don't roll out trembling requirements until we do know what those new protocols are. 01:45:23
Would that be more palatable? 01:45:30
That's the question. I mean, you know, I, I, I we will see a. 01:45:32
A set of of protocols in a couple of months. 01:45:38
And we'll make a recommendation one way or the other, I suppose, to the City Council, and they'll. 01:45:42
Take action one way or the other. 01:45:48
And then we may or may not have a protocol, but we don't. Now is my point. So how do we? 01:45:50
Are we making up the rules? 01:45:56
And. 01:45:59
I I have I I I have some problems with that because. 01:46:00
We're not the policy maker. We're here to implement the law, not make it. 01:46:05
That that's my point. 01:46:09
Commissioner Nuzenski, thank you, Charlie. At this point, yeah, I think I'm leaning towards not requiring it. 01:46:11
And and. 01:46:19
Written just instead. 01:46:20
Being that they will faithfully do it as required by the permit. I mean he's required to report anything he finds. So I'm going 01:46:24
to, that's where I'm gonna fall, is to based on his honour and doing the right thing. 01:46:30
And Vice Chair Murphy. 01:46:37
Of listening carefully to this discussion and and I'm in the same place as Commission Nuzenski. 01:46:40
And. 01:46:46
And this is a project that creates, you know, some new housing. 01:46:47
I I think it's well done. 01:46:52
Umm. 01:46:54
There is a responsibility to pay attention to. 01:46:56
To the ground disturbance into into report and I'm, I'm comfortable with that. 01:47:00
Can we? Sure. Could we could. I think you started to raise your hand. Or can I ask the applicant? Sure. 01:47:07
The applicant. 01:47:13
Please come forward. 01:47:14
And you need to put on your microphone, please. 01:47:18
Now you can talk it. It has a crawl space underneath. 01:47:21
Right now, yeah. 01:47:25
Pretty minimal. Yeah. Yeah. So that's the standard 18 inch crawl space underneath. Roughly speaking, roughly speaking with the the 01:47:27
posts and the. The. Yeah, yeah. Concrete. I've not measured it some there's something like that because a lot. I mean it's it's, 01:47:32
it's and that's approximately what you're gonna do for the pretty much. And I think I read in here there was like 6 cubic yards 01:47:37
you were gonna move or take away or something like that. I couldn't speak to that off top my head. OK. I thought that's what I 01:47:41
read in in the. 01:47:46
And in the documentation and. 01:47:51
It's about 12 refill with six. Hmm. And there is a state law, federal law to monitor. 01:47:54
And the contractors normally monitor that for. 01:48:02
OK. 01:48:06
I mean I I can say you know, having built hospitals, you know you didn't never wanted to find artifacts in the ground because you 01:48:07
ohh. OK that stops the project right away. OK, thank you. 01:48:12
With with the minimal amount of excavation and. 01:48:18
And the fact that there is a a requirement to monitor it, you know. 01:48:24
Feel comfortable that at this time, maybe we wouldn't require a travel monitor. 01:48:28
Right. 01:48:35
That kind of. 01:48:37
Vice Chairman does that, kind of. 01:48:38
Cover the waterfront? No, it it does, yeah. 01:48:40
So where do we stand now? We've talked about that issue and we've talked about the. 01:48:43
The project in general, what is the pleasure of the Commission in terms of this project? 01:48:48
Vice Chair Murphy. 01:48:55
And. 01:48:57
I'd make make a motion that we approve the project. 01:48:58
With the findings and. 01:49:03
The secret acknowledging the secret exemption. 01:49:07
I would like to add an in the existing conditions and I'd like to add it. 01:49:12
New condition. 01:49:19
And somebody can help me with the language if need be? 01:49:21
That the requirements of the CDP. 01:49:24
The. 01:49:28
They're showing the lighting. 01:49:29
Detail of the the porch steps. 01:49:33
Umm. 01:49:37
The site plan showing all of the existing structures, including fencing. 01:49:39
And have I left anything out, Commissioner Sawyer? 01:49:45
Yes, the curb cut. The curb cut. 01:49:48
And the porch detail, the porch detailer said, the eaves required. 01:49:51
So all of those things, and. 01:49:56
Decrease impervious surface. 01:50:00
Please. 01:50:03
Would that go in the data sheet or? 01:50:04
That would be a condition that you would write on that. 01:50:07
Then they would. 01:50:10
Need to. 01:50:12
Demonstrate how they're doing that. 01:50:13
I believe Murphy, Commissioner Murphy's talking first about the CDB application submittals that Commissioner Sawyer. 01:50:15
I believe we're missing. 01:50:25
Right. Yeah, that wasn't that wasn't a missing. That was a. 01:50:26
So this would be 23 point 90.060. 01:50:30
Submittals, Application submittals. 01:50:36
So seeing that we need those with the applicant to have a. 01:50:39
A plan set that includes all of those that will go forward to the building department. 01:50:43
And then an additional condition would be to decrease the impervious surface. 01:50:47
Area. 01:50:53
With the Beavers. 01:50:53
Let let me interject on on that last condition. 01:50:56
About the impervious services, does that require a percentage or I mean that's? 01:51:01
That can be very open-ended. 01:51:08
So do we need to specify? What do we need to specify in that? I guess is the question would be the the issue. 01:51:10
Well, they increased the pervious surface by 25%. So I would say decrease it. 01:51:16
By 25%. Can you do that? 01:51:23
OK. 01:51:29
Part of. 01:51:31
Part of that increase was increase of the footprint of the house. 01:51:32
And so I don't think we can. 01:51:38
I don't think we can bring it down a full 25%. We can make all of our the sidewalks good. I would be happy with that. Great. Thank 01:51:40
you. Great. 01:51:44
Can we then restate that to? 01:51:49
That's something that's a little more specific so that. 01:51:52
That the sidewalks would be converted to pervious surface. 01:51:55
Thank you. 01:52:00
That that would be acceptable. 01:52:01
Yeah. 01:52:03
I'm glad. 01:52:05
Do we also need a condition for verifying verifying ownership for signature or? 01:52:06
Umm. 01:52:12
If that's well, first of all, Commissioner, Vice Chair Murphy made a motion. Is there a second? 01:52:14
If you'd like to 2nd and then provide that as a friendly or. 01:52:20
Unfriendly Amendment Tyson. Whichever works. I'll second the motion and 2nd and then then it's the question is that a? Should we 01:52:23
require that also? 01:52:28
And can I throw that one to staff as far as? 01:52:34
Requiring. 01:52:37
And further signatures from the owners. Is that something you usually do? You don't pay attention to that? What? How? 01:52:39
How do you, how do you handle that? 01:52:45
I would refer this is a legal question typically, so I would refer to Brian. 01:52:47
Eric on this, the city attorney? 01:52:54
Mr. Peering. 01:52:57
Good. Good. 01:52:58
Just quote. 01:52:59
Did you want me to answer that question? 01:53:01