No Bookmarks Exist.
Mr. Shamas. 00:00:02
I have a question about, okay, if you eliminate the crosswalks at Fountain and Pine, is it now illegal to cross there or what? Is 00:00:04
there going to be a sign directing pedestrians to go different ways? It'll be like every other cross street along Pine for the 00:00:11
entire length of Pine. 00:00:18
It's considered a legal unmarked crosswalk, so it's legal to cross there. You just have to, you know, make sure it's it has dual 00:00:27
responsibility. The pedestrian has to make sure it's safe before they step out. 00:00:33
The driver has to pay attention and look for pedestrians, so it's kind of the dual responsibility for crossing the street. 00:00:40
So, interestingly, the crosswalks. 00:00:47
On the North and South legs of intersection have a much higher pedestrian volume because it's kid walking from school toward 00:00:53
forest. So they're just walking home from school along that that crosswalk and if they go two blocks away from fountain, they're 00:01:01
in a signal which has a lot better control for pedestrians and stuff so it. 00:01:10
Seemed to be a really natural place to eliminate those crossings. 00:01:18
Great. Thank you. 00:01:26
Anybody else? Vice Chairman? Yeah, I I have a couple of points. First of all, can we get these slides so that we can have them in 00:01:27
the record? 00:01:31
There is a link. 00:01:38
Yes. 00:01:42
I just want to make sure that, you know, for minutes purposes it'll be available. Umm. 00:01:42
Second, you know, with regard, I'm also a little concerned about the fountain crosswalk only because there has been a habit of 00:01:48
people doing that. 00:01:53
Would it make any sense to do anything, at least temporarily? 00:01:59
To put up some kind of a sign on the crosswalk saying, you know, no crossing here anymore or something like that. 00:02:03
I I'm a little hesitant because now it mimics every other intersection on pine that's crossing pine that's uncontrolled or has a 00:02:11
two way stop control, so there's nothing unusual about the way it is now. 00:02:18
Well, I, I think my point is simply that people have been doing it for years and it's not like another intersection on Pine 00:02:27
because they haven't been doing it for years. It's just a temporary thing, maybe just a. 00:02:33
You know, a temporary sign. Not, not anything permanent, but just something to discourage people from. 00:02:39
You know, using, you know, being, doing that as a habit. I just wouldn't want any kid just not thinking one day and then, you 00:02:46
know. 00:02:50
Makes a mistake trying to cross there, Commissioner Brown. 00:02:56
Right after implementation and when we were receiving a lot of inquiries about this, we did put up our informational sign boards 00:03:00
on both ends of Fountain. So on the South end and the North End, informing drivers that Pine Ave. no longer had a stop, which 00:03:08
seemed to help tremendously. We've now removed those because we can't keep them out permanently and we're using them to now alert. 00:03:17
Visitors and residents that no fireworks are allowed on the 4th of July. So we did have those out at that location for about 3 00:03:26
weeks informing drivers, pedestrians that it's no longer a four way stop. OK, so you think that's sufficient? I have not received 00:03:33
one e-mail since maybe the first week of. 00:03:40
Implementing these new markets after we put out those signs. 00:03:48
Can I raise another question with you? I think part of the concern here, because certainly we've all heard it, I've heard it from 00:03:53
neighbors, et cetera, was that. 00:03:57
It seemed that this was very abrupt and there was number bore warning about it and it really, people really got confused. And it's 00:04:01
not that necessarily that you didn't present it to the City Council or somebody, but it seems like it wasn't published or, you 00:04:10
know, it wasn't presented to the public in a in a form that made it easy for them to understand it and take it into consideration. 00:04:18
I would, I would relay that same concern and we could have done a better job of communication. Well, we, we appreciate that. So I 00:04:29
think the next time around we we need to do that because the number of complaints we all got was pretty outstanding. Anyway, Thank 00:04:36
you very much. 00:04:42
Thank you. Commissioner Proctor, do you have any questions? 00:04:50
OK, Commissioner Shamas, one more question on We did get communication from someone who was concerned about coming down Fountain. 00:04:56
And stopping but not being able to see because of the palm trees there. 00:05:09
Is did you review that those sight lines there or? Yeah, the those palm trees go all the way up and down pine. They're not great. 00:05:17
I mean, they're beautiful. 00:05:22
But they do limit visibility. And so at each intersection, doesn't matter which one it is, the driver has to stop at the limit 00:05:28
line, you know, make sure it's clear and then inch out until they can see. And that's the only way to kind of safely and 00:05:35
reasonably get across the street. And it's that way along the whole thing. It is possible to remove all the pine trees or the palm 00:05:43
trees, but I think the effect would be, you know, a pretty ugly St. 00:05:51
I mean they they add an awful lot of character. 00:06:00
Would you get better visibility? Yeah. 00:06:03
But it, you know, I think there's a character trade off and because drivers are naturally used to stopping the little line and 00:06:05
then creeping out to clear traffic, I think it works. And the volumes here are relatively low. 00:06:12
You know, in the morning, Pine Ave. had shoot, it was like 40 cars. 00:06:21
You know, crossing pine in One Direction and 40 roughly 54 in the other direction. So it's very low volumes. 00:06:28
And that's similar on the rest of the blocks going down behind. There's also a gap that's created by the traffic signal at forest. 00:06:38
So every time that thing cycles to forest, then there's that yellow and red interval that creates a gap and as that traffic kind 00:06:44
of moves through. 00:06:50
The opportunity to turn is kind of there each cycle. 00:06:57
All right. Thank you. I have a question to actually kind of related to that. Does does the city have any guidelines as far as tree 00:07:01
or any kind of vegetation planting on corners? 00:07:08
For because I see this on many corners, not just not just here where there are small trees or large trees planted right where you 00:07:16
need to look. And as you mentioned, you have to inch out there, but even inching out you, you still have the potential 00:07:25
vulnerability of not seeing a cyclist or or somebody else. But it's. 00:07:34
And is that something, well, I guess the first question, does the city have any guidelines and. 00:07:44
Second question, should the city have any guidelines? 00:07:51
If not. 00:07:55
I think the city chair, Gumby, the city has um. 00:07:57
Kind of standards that we'd like to adhere to and by all means we take those into account now when we're doing plantings. I think 00:08:02
a lot of our plantings and trees are. 00:08:08
Older and maybe those considerations weren't taken when they were planted as St. trees back in the day. Now we try to select 00:08:15
appropriate species and make sure that when we do plant them that sight lines are. 00:08:22
Available and it's visible for pedestrians and cars, bicyclists. So of course we have parameters that we use when we make those 00:08:30
plantings. But like these palm trees on pine or by fifty, 60-70 years old traffic volumes and so on and so forth at the time when 00:08:38
those were planted weren't nearly what they are now. 00:08:45
And I think also that a lot of times it's the adjacent property owner that plants especially in a in a grass strip or in a 00:08:55
planting strip between the back of curb and the in the sidewalk, which is technically in the city's right away. But often the 00:09:03
property owner is supposed to take care of that. So that I guess becomes somewhat problematic. 00:09:12
Vice Chairman Brown, did you have a comment? Yeah. Is this is related, but it's not exactly on topic. The the city trees that have 00:09:23
been planted, for example, one was planted in front of my house is pulling up my sidewalk. 00:09:30
Is that taken into consideration? 00:09:37
We. Yes. And what am I supposed to do about that now? 00:09:42
It's not my tree, it's your tree. Or it's the city's tree, I should say. 00:09:49
Per the city code, the property owner would be responsible for the sidewalk adjacent to their house or property, right. But the 00:09:55
city caused the damage. I think we're getting a little off topic. If you would like to, you could reach out to me tomorrow offline 00:10:01
and we can discuss. I would love to discuss that with you because it's it's rampant all along Pine and a lot of other streets. 00:10:07
Thank you. All right, thank you. I had one other comment. 00:10:13
Mr. Deal, you, you had mentioned that. 00:10:21
As in many cases these intersections they didn't meet the vault traffic volume as you mentioned subsequently and and warrants and 00:10:24
all the other criteria that would have. 00:10:31
Potentially triggered this, but it was your observation and police department's observation of is there anything different in this 00:10:39
location than other locations? In other words, was the fact that there was a school involved? Did that make a difference? 00:10:48
Here, as opposed to for instance at my infamous. 00:11:00
Lighthouse in Congress intersection where people do crazy things seemingly all the time anyway. 00:11:06
Two. 00:11:15
All I did was. 00:11:47
He doesn't do what I'm supposed. 00:11:54
The answer is no, because. 00:11:57
It's the lower of the pedestrian crossing point. 00:11:59
And got crossed on boarding systems at the other two. 00:12:03
It really made sense to take that. 00:12:07
Stop control. 00:12:10
Move it. 00:12:14
So that it met at a crossroad that would be. 00:12:16
Made a lot of sense to the driver. 00:12:20
I wasn't creating something that had. 00:12:22
Driver expectation. 00:12:26
And you know. 00:12:30
What I'm trying to do is eliminate the extra stuff. 00:12:35
Doesn't change traffic. 00:12:39
Condition as much. 00:12:41
And do the best job we can at the right location, so it makes sense that. 00:12:43
Parents driving to school, the people commuting through there. 00:12:50
That's and again this is on four lane arterial St. that. 00:12:55
Probably be A2 Lane Rd. 00:13:00
That's a whole nother story we can go on to, but some other time. 00:13:03
The best solution we're going to get. 00:13:09
All right, great. Thank you. No other comments from commissioners. I do see that now Inga has raised her hand. 00:13:15
We can go ahead and have. 00:13:23
Inga. 00:13:26
Make her comment. 00:13:27
Thank you so much. Unfortunately the traffic engineer did not have his microphone on and so his whole comments to you were 00:13:30
completely unavailable. 00:13:35
To a Zoom audience for sure. 00:13:42
All I could do was try and when closed captioning started to pick a little of it up, but if the microphones are not on we can't 00:13:46
hear. Thank you very much. 00:13:52
All right. 00:14:01
Thank you. 00:14:02
OK. I guess we can move on to our next one that'll be 3B. 00:14:04
This came up at our. 00:14:11
May meeting. 00:14:14
Where we had discussed briefly. 00:14:17
The compilation of all of the comments written and world comments that we get. 00:14:21
On at Traffic Safety Commission's. 00:14:29
We're compiling that in a spreadsheet and going back to January of 24. 00:14:31
And we will. 00:14:40
On a regular basis, probably in July, maybe not necessarily for July meeting, but sometime in July, August time time frame. 00:14:43
Look at the the top top issues we have have been noted on these communications. 00:14:57
And relative to that was brought up that we should have a hearing concerning traffic issues in in PG sometime in the future. So 00:15:08
I'm. 00:15:15
I can open that up for public comments if there's anybody that wants to comment on a future hearing, but we're going to. It's 00:15:23
something that the Commission will discuss. 00:15:29
If they're. 00:15:36
If anybody is there anybody that's wanting to comment so far? 00:15:38
OK, so let me open it up to Commissioners. Commissioner Shamash, you brought it up. So do you want to you want to start us off? 00:15:44
I just thought that it would be helpful maybe for the public to to have a place to come and and give us their ideas on maybe what 00:15:57
they see as the more needy types of traffic situations. We do get a lot of these I. 00:16:07
Complaints that come in, but. 00:16:18
And, and usually public works or the Police Department do take care of them. And so it kind of begs the question, what are we 00:16:20
doing? So I feel like in our. 00:16:27
Area of. 00:16:34
Responsibility. Umm. 00:16:36
I'd like to maybe see that we have some way of knowing like what are the most common? 00:16:38
Areas of concern in the city and we've talked about having goals for our Commission and we've we've approved the goals and we've 00:16:47
also approved our recommendations as how to achieve those goals. 00:16:55
Which it can relate to some of some of the complaints. Yeah, yeah. And so it just seems that it would be helpful to have just more 00:17:05
of an interaction with the with the public. 00:17:11
Through that through a hearing that. 00:17:20
Those are my comments. OK, Commissioner Brock, did you have any? 00:17:23
Somewhere along the line. 00:17:31
We mentioned. 00:17:35
So, so we mentioned doing something on a spreadsheet. Yeah, we are. Well, we are in the process, the Police Department is, is in 00:17:37
the process of, of compiling all of the complaints that we've had so far this year. And we'll continue to do that and then we will 00:17:44
review those on a regular basis for the top, you know, what are the the top now whether it's, it's probably not going to be every 00:17:51
meeting, it might be every quarter, it might be coming up, it'll be in July or August. 00:17:59
But we can review those. 00:18:06
And and then so there's there's that. So, so we've got one. Should we open from Commissioner Shamas suggestion, did you want to 00:18:10
open it up to any complaint about any kind of traffic issue anywhere in the city or do we just concentrate on what we've heard so 00:18:17
far from the. 00:18:24
Folks that have written in or who have. 00:18:32
Called in citizens complaints, in other words, strictly, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I would just, I, I would like to see an open 00:18:36
forum and not have have it be directed to any particular thing and have a way to encourage people to come. I mean, I, I believe 00:18:43
that they if they know we have a traffic Commission. 00:18:50
We're here, yeah. I mean, we, we don't have too many people that you don't know that I don't think, but or they misinterpret maybe 00:18:59
what we're really about. 00:19:05
So, umm. 00:19:12
You know, like this one e-mail seemed to think that we made the decision to put this change the stop signs that fountain and pine 00:19:14
or we can fix tickets. We don't do that either. 00:19:20
Vice Chair, thank you. Vice Chairman Brown, you have a comment. Yeah, I, I, I completely support Commissioner Shamas position on 00:19:28
this. And I, I think what we want to do is make it an open forum so that also people understand the process that they can go 00:19:33
through. 00:19:39
There are people who have sent us. 00:19:45
Just close. There are people who've also sent us, you know, complaints and concerns. But at the end of the day, I think it would 00:19:47
be nice to leave it open. You know, quite frankly, I think it might save the police a little bit of. 00:19:55
Annoyance and maybe some other people to give people an opportunity to bring these up, but when I when I think we should have also 00:20:04
available for them would be our goal. So they can see that kind of an informational meeting where we can say these are some of the 00:20:10
things we've looked at these are goals that we've come up with and then the statistics to show also that certain intersections, 00:20:16
yes, you don't have to go over it 15 times. 00:20:21
But there may be things that we're not thinking about. 00:20:28
That other people are thinking about that. I would give us an opportunity to, you know, to look at that, look at those issues in 00:20:31
more depth. But I think the major goal here is just to provide an opportunity for the public to engage with us and get more 00:20:38
information. 00:20:45
On what's going on with traffic, you know from all standpoints, from the standpoint of pedestrians and bicyclists and vehicles, 00:20:53
and that there is a form. 00:20:59
Of approach that they can take by contacting us and are then. 00:21:07
Enlisting the support of public works and the Police Department. OK. Now do any of the commissioners think that the forum that we 00:21:14
have right now, the Traffic Safety Commission, does that fulfill or wouldn't that fulfill what the hearing that you're? 00:21:23
Well, I think, I think the problem with it is, you know, there are a lot of commissions and a lot of groups and we have a lot of 00:21:34
meetings. 00:21:37
I think this, if we could advertise it and make sure that it's it's in things like the pine cone or something like that, that 00:21:40
people can come. 00:21:45
And know there will be one at least one night or one time when they can come and get this information that we've generated and 00:21:49
also present. 00:21:55
Concerns that they've got, you know, this is also a tough time. You're talking about 4:00 in the afternoon on a, on a, on a 00:22:02
weekday, you know, people who work or are working. And I think that also limits the number of people who can participate in our 00:22:08
deliberations. 00:22:13
And so I would hope we would hold this at a time that would be better for the more, you know, more a more general population than 00:22:20
perhaps the retired population or people who. 00:22:26
Can actually take a take time off for the meeting. All right, thank you. So and I think in general I agree with the commissioners. 00:22:32
You know, having a having a hearing on on traffic issues I think is. 00:22:43
Is is fine? I however I do see. 00:22:49
Number one, this isn't, unfortunately, it's not a unilateral thing that we can do by ourselves. In order to have a hearing beyond 00:22:54
our Traffic Safety Commission meetings, we would have to basically ask the City Council, make a presentation to the City Council 00:23:03
and they would have to agree to because there would be funding involved. We would potentially have the Community Center at Unipro 00:23:11
on, you know, on either weekday night or a Saturday morning or, you know, whatever. 00:23:19
And so that wouldn't be something that that we would have just control over. It would be something that we would. 00:23:28
Request that from City Council. OK, Well, you, you maybe you've done some research on this. My, my understanding simply is that 00:23:38
the manual says we can hold hearings. Commissioner Shamas pointed that out to me. And I think that's right. But if you're right, 00:23:44
if we have to, if there's money involved, perhaps that's an issue. 00:23:50
Then again, maybe we can just use, you know, City Hall on a weekend and it shouldn't be a major expense. Well, on a weekend that 00:23:57
you'd have to have a crew come in and do everything. But I guess another an alternative maybe do we want to just. 00:24:06
More or ask the city, say the city clerk to advertise. 00:24:15
Our Traffic Safety commissions meetings in a more. 00:24:22
Say for instance in the. 00:24:28
Monterey Weekly I see a number of City Council meetings are are posted in the the back of the Monterey Weekly along with the. 00:24:32
ARB Arctouch review boards, sometimes the historic resources committee and Planning Commission. So those those are are posted 00:24:42
legally, they have to be posted there. Ours, since we're not a under adjudicatory type Commission, we don't have to do it that 00:24:51
way, but maybe we can again, it takes some money because somebody has to pay the the newspaper I imagine to. 00:25:01
To do that and organize that. So I think that, you know, it runs into the problem I just described, which is that only certain 00:25:11
people can really come here at 4:00 in the afternoon. I and I agree, I agree. So I, I think what we need to do is try to set this 00:25:17
off as something separate and either works or doesn't work. We can see, but at least at that point we can also say we've made this 00:25:23
available. 00:25:30
This day where people could come and make their comments and also learn something about the process and the goals etc. 00:25:37
Actually on a Saturday at the Community Center, there's usually staff there anyway because the pickle ball in their tennis courts, 00:25:45
so that you probably wouldn't have to hire bring any extra people in for that. 00:25:51
Up the building and. 00:25:58
Things like that, right? It shouldn't, it shouldn't be much any, any funds involved in that. And you never know, we might have to 00:26:02
have our traffic engineer and our public works director there too, along with police contingent. 00:26:08
Just in case to protect them. 00:26:18
And the other, the other, the other thing I'd I'd like to point out too. And, and while it sounds like and I think this is going 00:26:22
to continue a further discussion on this into the future, I think also. 00:26:29
If we waited until after the first of the year, then we would have a year's worth of compilation of traffic complaints, both 00:26:38
written and oral complaints, to review and and share, share with, share with the public. 00:26:46
Yeah, I don't have any thoughts about exactly when this should be done. I don't know if anybody else does. Well, that seems like a 00:26:55
long you're talking about in January 2025 now. 00:27:01
Well, well, so then we'll have at least a year's worth of, of information that we can share with the public and say this is what 00:27:07
the public is telling us already, don't we? We have six months of it to do, you know. Well, I mean, but we've been collecting 00:27:15
certain things for, for, I don't know, but it's never been, to my knowledge. It's never been compiled like we're doing it now. And 00:27:23
this is eventually we'll be on on the Traffic Safety Commission website as a link to go to this document that. 00:27:31
At least expands on a yearly. 00:27:39
Yearly basis? When do we think that'll be ready? Do we know? 00:27:42
Staff not putting you on the spot. Do we have any idea when? 00:27:46
A link might be on the website to this living document. 00:27:53
Or do we have a goal? 00:28:01
After July, so that we had a good six months worth of data before we posted anything. OK, So yeah, into, you know, July, August 00:28:04
time frame. 00:28:09
Sounds like. 00:28:16
Yeah. I mean, if my preference would be to try to do in the fall after, you know, people go back, the kids go back to school and 00:28:18
stuff like that. But I think we we can certainly have further discussions depending upon the progress being made with the various 00:28:22
pieces to get this done. 00:28:27
Would it would it help if for the next meeting I bring kind of a some? 00:28:34
Some written description of what a public hearing's goals are. Sure. So so then we have something we can all look at and and say 00:28:44
yeah, that makes sense or, and and it kind of gives it a little more I. 00:28:52
Direct. 00:29:01
Subject, you know, so that we're not just because we're a little bit up in the air about exactly what that means to have a public 00:29:04
hearing and and if we write something, I mean, I'm willing to write up something to present to you guys next meeting. And then you 00:29:11
can look at it and see if that works it to help, you know, focus us a little bit so that we know, you know, we're all feeling 00:29:19
like, yeah, this is a good idea let's do it, let's do it this. 00:29:26
At this time and we'll we're going to get this kind of information that we can use. 00:29:34
OK, great. OK, that's good. 00:29:39
So we'll put that on the list. Commissioner ******* will bring us a presentation on on how she sees this hearing coming about in 00:29:43
the future. I'll be happy to do that. All righty, thank you. And then moving on to 3C, we don't have a report from the 00:29:51
subcommittee. We haven't met for a while. And so that is. 00:30:00
That's the end of our meet. 00:30:10
Oh, wait a second. No, we guess one more thing. OK, I know this is well, I'm going to stick it on subcommittee type of thing. 00:30:13
We talked about last meeting wanting to have the stats from the traffic collisions and things. And you know, when I was looking on 00:30:24
the city manager's report, this one's from April 19th of this year. This is online. 00:30:32
And, and here under the law, Police Department, you have. 00:30:43
Monthly stats on traffic accidents, arrests, written reports, citations issue so it is available. 00:30:49
And it also made me think if you, you know, do all of you look at this when we get this on our OK, this is a place where the 00:31:01
traffic Commission could also have something quarterly maybe where we. 00:31:09
Give out information that's a little easier for the public to to find it. 00:31:18
You know, that's something actually that comes from the city manager's office and and anybody can sign up to get that that e-mail 00:31:24
on AI guess every other week, biweekly basis. 00:31:31
So I mean, it would be we can look at the, we can. 00:31:39
Talk to staff and see how. 00:31:46
I mean, if we put together the verbiage, you know, so they don't have to do anything, the staff wouldn't have to do anything 00:31:50
except, you know, except maybe a here's something the traffic committee would like to put out for the quarter on some on things 00:31:58
that we're working on or whatever it is. But it's a way to, to give information easily to the public. 00:32:05
You know where they can just go to the website and find the city manager's report. OK, yeah, we can look into that. That's I want 00:32:14
to talk to staff and see what the the process for doing all that and how because most I don't see any of the other committees or 00:32:21
commissions doing that. So I'm not sure if well. 00:32:27
I'm not sure, but I'm not sure that's what the city wants. That's the way it's supposed to work. 00:32:37
By the city. 00:32:43
Nothing to do with the members of the city. 00:32:47
All right. So any other comments from commissioners? All right. 00:32:52
We're adjourning at 4:51. Thank you. 00:32:57
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Mr. Shamas. 00:00:02
I have a question about, okay, if you eliminate the crosswalks at Fountain and Pine, is it now illegal to cross there or what? Is 00:00:04
there going to be a sign directing pedestrians to go different ways? It'll be like every other cross street along Pine for the 00:00:11
entire length of Pine. 00:00:18
It's considered a legal unmarked crosswalk, so it's legal to cross there. You just have to, you know, make sure it's it has dual 00:00:27
responsibility. The pedestrian has to make sure it's safe before they step out. 00:00:33
The driver has to pay attention and look for pedestrians, so it's kind of the dual responsibility for crossing the street. 00:00:40
So, interestingly, the crosswalks. 00:00:47
On the North and South legs of intersection have a much higher pedestrian volume because it's kid walking from school toward 00:00:53
forest. So they're just walking home from school along that that crosswalk and if they go two blocks away from fountain, they're 00:01:01
in a signal which has a lot better control for pedestrians and stuff so it. 00:01:10
Seemed to be a really natural place to eliminate those crossings. 00:01:18
Great. Thank you. 00:01:26
Anybody else? Vice Chairman? Yeah, I I have a couple of points. First of all, can we get these slides so that we can have them in 00:01:27
the record? 00:01:31
There is a link. 00:01:38
Yes. 00:01:42
I just want to make sure that, you know, for minutes purposes it'll be available. Umm. 00:01:42
Second, you know, with regard, I'm also a little concerned about the fountain crosswalk only because there has been a habit of 00:01:48
people doing that. 00:01:53
Would it make any sense to do anything, at least temporarily? 00:01:59
To put up some kind of a sign on the crosswalk saying, you know, no crossing here anymore or something like that. 00:02:03
I I'm a little hesitant because now it mimics every other intersection on pine that's crossing pine that's uncontrolled or has a 00:02:11
two way stop control, so there's nothing unusual about the way it is now. 00:02:18
Well, I, I think my point is simply that people have been doing it for years and it's not like another intersection on Pine 00:02:27
because they haven't been doing it for years. It's just a temporary thing, maybe just a. 00:02:33
You know, a temporary sign. Not, not anything permanent, but just something to discourage people from. 00:02:39
You know, using, you know, being, doing that as a habit. I just wouldn't want any kid just not thinking one day and then, you 00:02:46
know. 00:02:50
Makes a mistake trying to cross there, Commissioner Brown. 00:02:56
Right after implementation and when we were receiving a lot of inquiries about this, we did put up our informational sign boards 00:03:00
on both ends of Fountain. So on the South end and the North End, informing drivers that Pine Ave. no longer had a stop, which 00:03:08
seemed to help tremendously. We've now removed those because we can't keep them out permanently and we're using them to now alert. 00:03:17
Visitors and residents that no fireworks are allowed on the 4th of July. So we did have those out at that location for about 3 00:03:26
weeks informing drivers, pedestrians that it's no longer a four way stop. OK, so you think that's sufficient? I have not received 00:03:33
one e-mail since maybe the first week of. 00:03:40
Implementing these new markets after we put out those signs. 00:03:48
Can I raise another question with you? I think part of the concern here, because certainly we've all heard it, I've heard it from 00:03:53
neighbors, et cetera, was that. 00:03:57
It seemed that this was very abrupt and there was number bore warning about it and it really, people really got confused. And it's 00:04:01
not that necessarily that you didn't present it to the City Council or somebody, but it seems like it wasn't published or, you 00:04:10
know, it wasn't presented to the public in a in a form that made it easy for them to understand it and take it into consideration. 00:04:18
I would, I would relay that same concern and we could have done a better job of communication. Well, we, we appreciate that. So I 00:04:29
think the next time around we we need to do that because the number of complaints we all got was pretty outstanding. Anyway, Thank 00:04:36
you very much. 00:04:42
Thank you. Commissioner Proctor, do you have any questions? 00:04:50
OK, Commissioner Shamas, one more question on We did get communication from someone who was concerned about coming down Fountain. 00:04:56
And stopping but not being able to see because of the palm trees there. 00:05:09
Is did you review that those sight lines there or? Yeah, the those palm trees go all the way up and down pine. They're not great. 00:05:17
I mean, they're beautiful. 00:05:22
But they do limit visibility. And so at each intersection, doesn't matter which one it is, the driver has to stop at the limit 00:05:28
line, you know, make sure it's clear and then inch out until they can see. And that's the only way to kind of safely and 00:05:35
reasonably get across the street. And it's that way along the whole thing. It is possible to remove all the pine trees or the palm 00:05:43
trees, but I think the effect would be, you know, a pretty ugly St. 00:05:51
I mean they they add an awful lot of character. 00:06:00
Would you get better visibility? Yeah. 00:06:03
But it, you know, I think there's a character trade off and because drivers are naturally used to stopping the little line and 00:06:05
then creeping out to clear traffic, I think it works. And the volumes here are relatively low. 00:06:12
You know, in the morning, Pine Ave. had shoot, it was like 40 cars. 00:06:21
You know, crossing pine in One Direction and 40 roughly 54 in the other direction. So it's very low volumes. 00:06:28
And that's similar on the rest of the blocks going down behind. There's also a gap that's created by the traffic signal at forest. 00:06:38
So every time that thing cycles to forest, then there's that yellow and red interval that creates a gap and as that traffic kind 00:06:44
of moves through. 00:06:50
The opportunity to turn is kind of there each cycle. 00:06:57
All right. Thank you. I have a question to actually kind of related to that. Does does the city have any guidelines as far as tree 00:07:01
or any kind of vegetation planting on corners? 00:07:08
For because I see this on many corners, not just not just here where there are small trees or large trees planted right where you 00:07:16
need to look. And as you mentioned, you have to inch out there, but even inching out you, you still have the potential 00:07:25
vulnerability of not seeing a cyclist or or somebody else. But it's. 00:07:34
And is that something, well, I guess the first question, does the city have any guidelines and. 00:07:44
Second question, should the city have any guidelines? 00:07:51
If not. 00:07:55
I think the city chair, Gumby, the city has um. 00:07:57
Kind of standards that we'd like to adhere to and by all means we take those into account now when we're doing plantings. I think 00:08:02
a lot of our plantings and trees are. 00:08:08
Older and maybe those considerations weren't taken when they were planted as St. trees back in the day. Now we try to select 00:08:15
appropriate species and make sure that when we do plant them that sight lines are. 00:08:22
Available and it's visible for pedestrians and cars, bicyclists. So of course we have parameters that we use when we make those 00:08:30
plantings. But like these palm trees on pine or by fifty, 60-70 years old traffic volumes and so on and so forth at the time when 00:08:38
those were planted weren't nearly what they are now. 00:08:45
And I think also that a lot of times it's the adjacent property owner that plants especially in a in a grass strip or in a 00:08:55
planting strip between the back of curb and the in the sidewalk, which is technically in the city's right away. But often the 00:09:03
property owner is supposed to take care of that. So that I guess becomes somewhat problematic. 00:09:12
Vice Chairman Brown, did you have a comment? Yeah. Is this is related, but it's not exactly on topic. The the city trees that have 00:09:23
been planted, for example, one was planted in front of my house is pulling up my sidewalk. 00:09:30
Is that taken into consideration? 00:09:37
We. Yes. And what am I supposed to do about that now? 00:09:42
It's not my tree, it's your tree. Or it's the city's tree, I should say. 00:09:49
Per the city code, the property owner would be responsible for the sidewalk adjacent to their house or property, right. But the 00:09:55
city caused the damage. I think we're getting a little off topic. If you would like to, you could reach out to me tomorrow offline 00:10:01
and we can discuss. I would love to discuss that with you because it's it's rampant all along Pine and a lot of other streets. 00:10:07
Thank you. All right, thank you. I had one other comment. 00:10:13
Mr. Deal, you, you had mentioned that. 00:10:21
As in many cases these intersections they didn't meet the vault traffic volume as you mentioned subsequently and and warrants and 00:10:24
all the other criteria that would have. 00:10:31
Potentially triggered this, but it was your observation and police department's observation of is there anything different in this 00:10:39
location than other locations? In other words, was the fact that there was a school involved? Did that make a difference? 00:10:48
Here, as opposed to for instance at my infamous. 00:11:00
Lighthouse in Congress intersection where people do crazy things seemingly all the time anyway. 00:11:06
Two. 00:11:15
All I did was. 00:11:47
He doesn't do what I'm supposed. 00:11:54
The answer is no, because. 00:11:57
It's the lower of the pedestrian crossing point. 00:11:59
And got crossed on boarding systems at the other two. 00:12:03
It really made sense to take that. 00:12:07
Stop control. 00:12:10
Move it. 00:12:14
So that it met at a crossroad that would be. 00:12:16
Made a lot of sense to the driver. 00:12:20
I wasn't creating something that had. 00:12:22
Driver expectation. 00:12:26
And you know. 00:12:30
What I'm trying to do is eliminate the extra stuff. 00:12:35
Doesn't change traffic. 00:12:39
Condition as much. 00:12:41
And do the best job we can at the right location, so it makes sense that. 00:12:43
Parents driving to school, the people commuting through there. 00:12:50
That's and again this is on four lane arterial St. that. 00:12:55
Probably be A2 Lane Rd. 00:13:00
That's a whole nother story we can go on to, but some other time. 00:13:03
The best solution we're going to get. 00:13:09
All right, great. Thank you. No other comments from commissioners. I do see that now Inga has raised her hand. 00:13:15
We can go ahead and have. 00:13:23
Inga. 00:13:26
Make her comment. 00:13:27
Thank you so much. Unfortunately the traffic engineer did not have his microphone on and so his whole comments to you were 00:13:30
completely unavailable. 00:13:35
To a Zoom audience for sure. 00:13:42
All I could do was try and when closed captioning started to pick a little of it up, but if the microphones are not on we can't 00:13:46
hear. Thank you very much. 00:13:52
All right. 00:14:01
Thank you. 00:14:02
OK. I guess we can move on to our next one that'll be 3B. 00:14:04
This came up at our. 00:14:11
May meeting. 00:14:14
Where we had discussed briefly. 00:14:17
The compilation of all of the comments written and world comments that we get. 00:14:21
On at Traffic Safety Commission's. 00:14:29
We're compiling that in a spreadsheet and going back to January of 24. 00:14:31
And we will. 00:14:40
On a regular basis, probably in July, maybe not necessarily for July meeting, but sometime in July, August time time frame. 00:14:43
Look at the the top top issues we have have been noted on these communications. 00:14:57
And relative to that was brought up that we should have a hearing concerning traffic issues in in PG sometime in the future. So 00:15:08
I'm. 00:15:15
I can open that up for public comments if there's anybody that wants to comment on a future hearing, but we're going to. It's 00:15:23
something that the Commission will discuss. 00:15:29
If they're. 00:15:36
If anybody is there anybody that's wanting to comment so far? 00:15:38
OK, so let me open it up to Commissioners. Commissioner Shamash, you brought it up. So do you want to you want to start us off? 00:15:44
I just thought that it would be helpful maybe for the public to to have a place to come and and give us their ideas on maybe what 00:15:57
they see as the more needy types of traffic situations. We do get a lot of these I. 00:16:07
Complaints that come in, but. 00:16:18
And, and usually public works or the Police Department do take care of them. And so it kind of begs the question, what are we 00:16:20
doing? So I feel like in our. 00:16:27
Area of. 00:16:34
Responsibility. Umm. 00:16:36
I'd like to maybe see that we have some way of knowing like what are the most common? 00:16:38
Areas of concern in the city and we've talked about having goals for our Commission and we've we've approved the goals and we've 00:16:47
also approved our recommendations as how to achieve those goals. 00:16:55
Which it can relate to some of some of the complaints. Yeah, yeah. And so it just seems that it would be helpful to have just more 00:17:05
of an interaction with the with the public. 00:17:11
Through that through a hearing that. 00:17:20
Those are my comments. OK, Commissioner Brock, did you have any? 00:17:23
Somewhere along the line. 00:17:31
We mentioned. 00:17:35
So, so we mentioned doing something on a spreadsheet. Yeah, we are. Well, we are in the process, the Police Department is, is in 00:17:37
the process of, of compiling all of the complaints that we've had so far this year. And we'll continue to do that and then we will 00:17:44
review those on a regular basis for the top, you know, what are the the top now whether it's, it's probably not going to be every 00:17:51
meeting, it might be every quarter, it might be coming up, it'll be in July or August. 00:17:59
But we can review those. 00:18:06
And and then so there's there's that. So, so we've got one. Should we open from Commissioner Shamas suggestion, did you want to 00:18:10
open it up to any complaint about any kind of traffic issue anywhere in the city or do we just concentrate on what we've heard so 00:18:17
far from the. 00:18:24
Folks that have written in or who have. 00:18:32
Called in citizens complaints, in other words, strictly, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I would just, I, I would like to see an open 00:18:36
forum and not have have it be directed to any particular thing and have a way to encourage people to come. I mean, I, I believe 00:18:43
that they if they know we have a traffic Commission. 00:18:50
We're here, yeah. I mean, we, we don't have too many people that you don't know that I don't think, but or they misinterpret maybe 00:18:59
what we're really about. 00:19:05
So, umm. 00:19:12
You know, like this one e-mail seemed to think that we made the decision to put this change the stop signs that fountain and pine 00:19:14
or we can fix tickets. We don't do that either. 00:19:20
Vice Chair, thank you. Vice Chairman Brown, you have a comment. Yeah, I, I, I completely support Commissioner Shamas position on 00:19:28
this. And I, I think what we want to do is make it an open forum so that also people understand the process that they can go 00:19:33
through. 00:19:39
There are people who have sent us. 00:19:45
Just close. There are people who've also sent us, you know, complaints and concerns. But at the end of the day, I think it would 00:19:47
be nice to leave it open. You know, quite frankly, I think it might save the police a little bit of. 00:19:55
Annoyance and maybe some other people to give people an opportunity to bring these up, but when I when I think we should have also 00:20:04
available for them would be our goal. So they can see that kind of an informational meeting where we can say these are some of the 00:20:10
things we've looked at these are goals that we've come up with and then the statistics to show also that certain intersections, 00:20:16
yes, you don't have to go over it 15 times. 00:20:21
But there may be things that we're not thinking about. 00:20:28
That other people are thinking about that. I would give us an opportunity to, you know, to look at that, look at those issues in 00:20:31
more depth. But I think the major goal here is just to provide an opportunity for the public to engage with us and get more 00:20:38
information. 00:20:45
On what's going on with traffic, you know from all standpoints, from the standpoint of pedestrians and bicyclists and vehicles, 00:20:53
and that there is a form. 00:20:59
Of approach that they can take by contacting us and are then. 00:21:07
Enlisting the support of public works and the Police Department. OK. Now do any of the commissioners think that the forum that we 00:21:14
have right now, the Traffic Safety Commission, does that fulfill or wouldn't that fulfill what the hearing that you're? 00:21:23
Well, I think, I think the problem with it is, you know, there are a lot of commissions and a lot of groups and we have a lot of 00:21:34
meetings. 00:21:37
I think this, if we could advertise it and make sure that it's it's in things like the pine cone or something like that, that 00:21:40
people can come. 00:21:45
And know there will be one at least one night or one time when they can come and get this information that we've generated and 00:21:49
also present. 00:21:55
Concerns that they've got, you know, this is also a tough time. You're talking about 4:00 in the afternoon on a, on a, on a 00:22:02
weekday, you know, people who work or are working. And I think that also limits the number of people who can participate in our 00:22:08
deliberations. 00:22:13
And so I would hope we would hold this at a time that would be better for the more, you know, more a more general population than 00:22:20
perhaps the retired population or people who. 00:22:26
Can actually take a take time off for the meeting. All right, thank you. So and I think in general I agree with the commissioners. 00:22:32
You know, having a having a hearing on on traffic issues I think is. 00:22:43
Is is fine? I however I do see. 00:22:49
Number one, this isn't, unfortunately, it's not a unilateral thing that we can do by ourselves. In order to have a hearing beyond 00:22:54
our Traffic Safety Commission meetings, we would have to basically ask the City Council, make a presentation to the City Council 00:23:03
and they would have to agree to because there would be funding involved. We would potentially have the Community Center at Unipro 00:23:11
on, you know, on either weekday night or a Saturday morning or, you know, whatever. 00:23:19
And so that wouldn't be something that that we would have just control over. It would be something that we would. 00:23:28
Request that from City Council. OK, Well, you, you maybe you've done some research on this. My, my understanding simply is that 00:23:38
the manual says we can hold hearings. Commissioner Shamas pointed that out to me. And I think that's right. But if you're right, 00:23:44
if we have to, if there's money involved, perhaps that's an issue. 00:23:50
Then again, maybe we can just use, you know, City Hall on a weekend and it shouldn't be a major expense. Well, on a weekend that 00:23:57
you'd have to have a crew come in and do everything. But I guess another an alternative maybe do we want to just. 00:24:06
More or ask the city, say the city clerk to advertise. 00:24:15
Our Traffic Safety commissions meetings in a more. 00:24:22
Say for instance in the. 00:24:28
Monterey Weekly I see a number of City Council meetings are are posted in the the back of the Monterey Weekly along with the. 00:24:32
ARB Arctouch review boards, sometimes the historic resources committee and Planning Commission. So those those are are posted 00:24:42
legally, they have to be posted there. Ours, since we're not a under adjudicatory type Commission, we don't have to do it that 00:24:51
way, but maybe we can again, it takes some money because somebody has to pay the the newspaper I imagine to. 00:25:01
To do that and organize that. So I think that, you know, it runs into the problem I just described, which is that only certain 00:25:11
people can really come here at 4:00 in the afternoon. I and I agree, I agree. So I, I think what we need to do is try to set this 00:25:17
off as something separate and either works or doesn't work. We can see, but at least at that point we can also say we've made this 00:25:23
available. 00:25:30
This day where people could come and make their comments and also learn something about the process and the goals etc. 00:25:37
Actually on a Saturday at the Community Center, there's usually staff there anyway because the pickle ball in their tennis courts, 00:25:45
so that you probably wouldn't have to hire bring any extra people in for that. 00:25:51
Up the building and. 00:25:58
Things like that, right? It shouldn't, it shouldn't be much any, any funds involved in that. And you never know, we might have to 00:26:02
have our traffic engineer and our public works director there too, along with police contingent. 00:26:08
Just in case to protect them. 00:26:18
And the other, the other, the other thing I'd I'd like to point out too. And, and while it sounds like and I think this is going 00:26:22
to continue a further discussion on this into the future, I think also. 00:26:29
If we waited until after the first of the year, then we would have a year's worth of compilation of traffic complaints, both 00:26:38
written and oral complaints, to review and and share, share with, share with the public. 00:26:46
Yeah, I don't have any thoughts about exactly when this should be done. I don't know if anybody else does. Well, that seems like a 00:26:55
long you're talking about in January 2025 now. 00:27:01
Well, well, so then we'll have at least a year's worth of, of information that we can share with the public and say this is what 00:27:07
the public is telling us already, don't we? We have six months of it to do, you know. Well, I mean, but we've been collecting 00:27:15
certain things for, for, I don't know, but it's never been, to my knowledge. It's never been compiled like we're doing it now. And 00:27:23
this is eventually we'll be on on the Traffic Safety Commission website as a link to go to this document that. 00:27:31
At least expands on a yearly. 00:27:39
Yearly basis? When do we think that'll be ready? Do we know? 00:27:42
Staff not putting you on the spot. Do we have any idea when? 00:27:46
A link might be on the website to this living document. 00:27:53
Or do we have a goal? 00:28:01
After July, so that we had a good six months worth of data before we posted anything. OK, So yeah, into, you know, July, August 00:28:04
time frame. 00:28:09
Sounds like. 00:28:16
Yeah. I mean, if my preference would be to try to do in the fall after, you know, people go back, the kids go back to school and 00:28:18
stuff like that. But I think we we can certainly have further discussions depending upon the progress being made with the various 00:28:22
pieces to get this done. 00:28:27
Would it would it help if for the next meeting I bring kind of a some? 00:28:34
Some written description of what a public hearing's goals are. Sure. So so then we have something we can all look at and and say 00:28:44
yeah, that makes sense or, and and it kind of gives it a little more I. 00:28:52
Direct. 00:29:01
Subject, you know, so that we're not just because we're a little bit up in the air about exactly what that means to have a public 00:29:04
hearing and and if we write something, I mean, I'm willing to write up something to present to you guys next meeting. And then you 00:29:11
can look at it and see if that works it to help, you know, focus us a little bit so that we know, you know, we're all feeling 00:29:19
like, yeah, this is a good idea let's do it, let's do it this. 00:29:26
At this time and we'll we're going to get this kind of information that we can use. 00:29:34
OK, great. OK, that's good. 00:29:39
So we'll put that on the list. Commissioner ******* will bring us a presentation on on how she sees this hearing coming about in 00:29:43
the future. I'll be happy to do that. All righty, thank you. And then moving on to 3C, we don't have a report from the 00:29:51
subcommittee. We haven't met for a while. And so that is. 00:30:00
That's the end of our meet. 00:30:10
Oh, wait a second. No, we guess one more thing. OK, I know this is well, I'm going to stick it on subcommittee type of thing. 00:30:13
We talked about last meeting wanting to have the stats from the traffic collisions and things. And you know, when I was looking on 00:30:24
the city manager's report, this one's from April 19th of this year. This is online. 00:30:32
And, and here under the law, Police Department, you have. 00:30:43
Monthly stats on traffic accidents, arrests, written reports, citations issue so it is available. 00:30:49
And it also made me think if you, you know, do all of you look at this when we get this on our OK, this is a place where the 00:31:01
traffic Commission could also have something quarterly maybe where we. 00:31:09
Give out information that's a little easier for the public to to find it. 00:31:18
You know, that's something actually that comes from the city manager's office and and anybody can sign up to get that that e-mail 00:31:24
on AI guess every other week, biweekly basis. 00:31:31
So I mean, it would be we can look at the, we can. 00:31:39
Talk to staff and see how. 00:31:46
I mean, if we put together the verbiage, you know, so they don't have to do anything, the staff wouldn't have to do anything 00:31:50
except, you know, except maybe a here's something the traffic committee would like to put out for the quarter on some on things 00:31:58
that we're working on or whatever it is. But it's a way to, to give information easily to the public. 00:32:05
You know where they can just go to the website and find the city manager's report. OK, yeah, we can look into that. That's I want 00:32:14
to talk to staff and see what the the process for doing all that and how because most I don't see any of the other committees or 00:32:21
commissions doing that. So I'm not sure if well. 00:32:27
I'm not sure, but I'm not sure that's what the city wants. That's the way it's supposed to work. 00:32:37
By the city. 00:32:43
Nothing to do with the members of the city. 00:32:47
All right. So any other comments from commissioners? All right. 00:32:52
We're adjourning at 4:51. Thank you. 00:32:57
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