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OK. I'd like to call the March 27th, 2024 meeting of the Historic Resources Committee to order. 00:00:23
And let's the records reflect that all members are present. 00:00:32
May we go to item two? Do we have approval of the agenda? 00:00:39
Thank you. 00:00:49
Motion by. 00:00:51
I'm going to say greening again. Grannis and second by Beckett and. 00:00:55
Can I have a? 00:01:02
Hands to approve the agenda, please. Yes. 00:01:04
All right. Thank you. The agenda is approved 520. 00:01:08
Nobody absent. Let's go to item 3, Committee and staff announcements. Do we have any committee announcements to begin with? 00:01:13
Seeing none, do we have any staff announcements? 00:01:22
Yes, I have one announcement very happy to announce that due to some very hard work and. 00:01:25
Taking on tasks that were above and beyond his position as an assistant planner, Garrett has been promoted to an associate 00:01:36
planner. So congratulations, Garrett, and all right, well deserved. 00:01:42
That's good news. I that's the first I've heard of it. Thank you. Good for you, Garrett. Thank you. 00:01:51
OK. Do we have any council liaison reports from Mayor Peak? Thank you for coming. 00:02:00
Members. 00:02:13
A few items that's going on right now. Council has been interviewing for City Manager, so we might have some announcements here. 00:02:15
In the not too distant future, the American Tin Cannery Hotel and Conference Center will be heard. It was appealed to the Coastal 00:02:25
Commission will be heard on April 11th and in Long Beach. 00:02:34
And there were modifications to the project. 00:02:45
The few other items Skate Park proposal for a pilot here in the parking lot. 00:02:49
Adjacent to the youth center was not approved but will continue conversations with Pacific Grove Unified School District's. 00:02:57
For a possible location, also a council approved. 00:03:07
Putting on the. 00:03:12
Ballot in November, a reduction of council from six to four members. That would be a five person council that is the norm across 00:03:16
Monterey County and the state. 00:03:22
And so let's see. And coming up next week, we're going to hear more about a proposal by the Monterey Bay Chinese Association for a 00:03:29
pavilion, which they've suggested in El Murray **** replacing the gazebo that has been deteriorating. 00:03:39
And last but not least, you'll hear more on next week we'll be talking about sewer fewer fees from M1 W. 00:03:52
Which have been billed out, I think bimonthly and the. 00:04:03
The sewer fees will now go on to the property tax roll, so stay tuned for that. 00:04:11
Thank you for your service. Thank you very much. Thank you for coming always. 00:04:17
The next item is general public comment. 00:04:24
This must deal with matters. 00:04:27
That are subject to the jurisdiction of the city and of the Historic Resources Committee. 00:04:30
And these have to be items that are not on the regular agenda today, so. 00:04:35
I will open first to general public comment from the. 00:04:40
Audience that's present. Would anybody like to speak? 00:04:44
OK. Do we have anybody from the virtual audience who would like to speak? 00:04:51
I see one hand raised, I'll allow, and the next speaker will be Lisa Gianni. 00:04:56
Thank you. I just wanted to remind everyone to please. 00:05:02
Not only speak into your microphone, but make sure it's turned on. I I wasn't able to hear Jennifer Bickett even though I saw her 00:05:08
lean forward to the mic. So. 00:05:13
Anyway. 00:05:21
As those of us out here in the audience really love to hear what you're saying. All of you, thank you. 00:05:22
Thank you for the reminder. 00:05:30
Any other public. 00:05:33
I see no other hands raised. 00:05:36
All right. The next item is the consent agenda. We only have one item on the consent agenda. 00:05:39
Do we have a motion? Well, I should ask, Does anybody want anything removed from the consent agenda? 00:05:47
Yes, excuse me, I was looking at the. 00:05:55
Regular agenda. 00:06:01
So the answer is no. 00:06:04
I don't have a consent agenda. 00:06:09
It's. It's here. 00:06:11
The first words are here. 00:06:13
And then it's this. 00:06:16
It's just down there. It's just the minutes. OK, OK. 00:06:17
Is there anybody from the the audience that would like to remove anything from the consent agenda? 00:06:23
I see no hands raised. 00:06:35
All right, do we have a motion to approve the consent agenda? 00:06:36
I approve the consent agenda. Thank you. Do we have a 2nd I'll second? 00:06:40
Say motion by Beckett, second by Greening. 00:06:45
And maybe have a vote to approve, just with a show of hands, please. 00:06:49
I see five hands. So that is approved 50. Thank you very much and we will move now to the regular agenda. 00:06:54
The first item. 00:07:03
Which was 8A. 00:07:05
Is regarding an architectural permit and coastal development permit for 107 14th St. Pacific Grove, so may we have a staff report 00:07:08
on that please? 00:07:12
Yes, and we have, it looks like we have two members that will be recusing today. 00:07:18
Yes, we have two weeks. 00:07:24
I hear myself on my. 00:07:26
2 recusals. 00:07:29
These are people that live within a very short distance of the project that have to be refused. 00:07:31
All right. And I will be presenting the report. Joe Sidor, Senior Planner was the the planner for this project and was not able to 00:07:39
make it today. So I will cover for him and I'll do the best I can. I'd like to start by saying this is architectural permit and 00:07:47
coastal development permit 107 14th St. two 3-0290. It was the notice of public hearing and the mailers went out on February 16th, 00:07:54
2024. 00:08:01
And the mailers? It was a 100 foot radius. On February 26th the applicant notified city staff that the story, polls and netting 00:08:10
had been installed. 00:08:14
The store polls and netting was verified by staff on February 26th and on March 5th city staff requested the applicant install 00:08:20
netting to show the exterior wall lines of the proposed development. 00:08:26
On the March 6th, the applicant inform City staff that the revised netting had been installed and provided photographic 00:08:31
confirmation. The city staff also confirmed the installation of the revised netting on March 7th and 12th of. 00:08:38
2024 I also want to point that out this was continued, which I'll mention again later. 00:08:45
For. 00:08:51
For doing story polls and netting from the last meeting. 00:08:54
If you give me a moment. 00:08:58
Get the Share My screen here. 00:09:01
All right, the project site is an interior lot located near the intersection of 14th and Ocean View Blvd. And an area consisting 00:09:27
of medium to large one and two-story residences in the Pacific Grove Retreat residential neighborhood and R3 PGR Zoning district. 00:09:36
The 1820 square foot parcel is currently developed with a 1108 square foot, one story single family. 00:09:46
Residents. 00:09:55
The proposed development would include a demolition of a rear addition comprising 770 square feet of the existing residents and 00:09:57
construction of a 1078 square foot two-story addition resulting in a 1416 square foot, two-story single family residence. 00:10:06
As shown at the top, the existing structure is nonconforming with regard to building coverage site. 00:10:16
Building coverage, site coverage inside and rear setbacks. 00:10:23
As proposed in the lower view, the project would correct these non conforming features and then the property into compliance with 00:10:26
all applicable development regulations. 00:10:30
These elevations so the existing and proposed Westview from 4th 14th St. 00:10:38
The phase two historic assessment prepared for the property concluded the proposed development would be consistent with the 00:10:49
Secretary of Interior Standards for Rehabilitation of Historic Buildings. 00:10:54
Phase one archaeological assessment prepared for the project by qualified archaeologists recommended pre construction sensitivity 00:10:59
training and archaeological monitoring during ground disturbing activities. Clinicians numbers 8-9 and 10 have been added to 00:11:05
address training and monitoring as well as inadvertent discovery of cultural resources. 00:11:11
That has proposed the project is categorically exempt for SEQUEL guidelines Section 15301 that's existing facilities and 15331. 00:11:19
Historic Resource Restoration and Rehabilitation. 00:11:25
Therefore, staff recommends the HRC recommend to the Planning Commission that they approve the architectural permit and coastal 00:11:33
development permit subject to the findings, conditions of approval and Class One and Class 31 categorical exemptions for SEQUEL 00:11:39
guidelines, Section 15301 and 15331. 00:11:45
I am here for to answer any questions if if need be. 00:11:52
Thank you very much. And now we'd like to hear from the applicant or the owner or maybe both. 00:11:57
Thanks for having me today. I'm James Ducker. I'm the owner. My wife couldn't be here today. We're both teachers. So I got the 00:12:09
short straw and had to be here. 00:12:13
Yeah, so 107 Fourteenth is our downsizing plan. We've been PG residents for 18 years. Our kids have gone through the PG schools. 00:12:19
We're down to our last kid to be gone in a few years. So we live on the asylum, our area now in a very large home, which has been 00:12:28
awesome over the last several years, but it's a little bit too big for two people and there's our downsizing plan, so. 00:12:36
We identify the project. We actually know the previous owners. We taught their kids at Stevenson and have a long, you know, 00:12:46
relationship with them through the Stevenson connection. 00:12:51
We love the cottage style of the house. As you see from the plans, we want to keep sort of that charm of. 00:12:57
Of the house. But that being said, we do have 4 kids that are going to be returning the visit as they grow older, so having the 00:13:05
extra space is going to be helpful. So the. 00:13:10
I think it's about 1100 square feet now. My directive to our architect, who I've worked with on all four houses we've owned in BG 00:13:16
over this time we've lived here, was to, you know, add the square footage about 300 square feet to add that two extra bedrooms and 00:13:22
the bathroom. 00:13:28
But to keep the charm right? And this was the plan that he came up with. 00:13:35
And we like. And part of that process was discussing this with our neighbors, especially our immediate neighbors. 00:13:40
Steven and Deborah Rose are the uphill away from the water neighbors. They have a two-story residence. Their primary concern was 00:13:48
their view from their bedroom to the ocean. So we accommodated that by reducing the square footage a little bit on the upper 00:13:55
section and adding a back deck that. 00:14:02
Gives them the sight line that they requested and they're supportive of our design. 00:14:10
After that downhill neighbor is a two-story resident. I think she's 104 now so she's kind of she's hard to to connect with but she 00:14:17
didn't express any concerns what we did talk to her briefly I. 00:14:25
And I have some Mike Strasser's my general contractor that I've used in our houses in the past, and he drew up a condition 00:14:34
assessment of the current structure, which if you've been there, you probably know how bad it is. I'm happy to hand these out and 00:14:40
also have. 00:14:45
The I took pictures of the four other houses that we've lived in. One is currently my mom's house on 17th. One house was our 00:14:51
original house here in PG and I think you can see from the theme of the houses. 00:14:59
We love PG, we love the architectural style and we want to keep that so. 00:15:06
That's kind of it and. 00:15:12
Do you ask me questions now or is? 00:15:14
We we may have questions for you. OK, you have one now. 00:15:16
Either one not right now you have a description of the. 00:15:20
Existing condition of the house or something, Yeah. So it's a called a property condition assessment. 00:15:25
From our general contractor, yeah, the. 00:15:32
Part of the back part of the house that you intend to demolish. Uh. 00:15:35
What condition is it in? I'd be interested to know if it's. 00:15:40
Historic or has it? Has it been modified a couple of times or what? According to Mr. Seavy, it was put together, if I recall 00:15:46
right, in the 50s or 60s. Oh, is that right? Yeah. So that back portion was added probably in two phases. It looks like there was 00:15:54
a bedroom added on and then a second bedroom added on. And the reason they're. 00:16:02
Probably two different. 00:16:11
Time periods is because of the foundation work. The foundation is really bad in all sections of the house. That's probably the the 00:16:13
biggest issue. 00:16:17
An 18 inch or a foot and a half difference between the front of the house and the back of the house. So that gives you a sense of 00:16:22
sort of the and it's a wood sill foundation, so there's no concrete underneath it. 00:16:28
Does that answer your question? 00:16:35
The back of the house. 00:16:37
Was the most original part of the house from 1887. 00:16:39
Sanborn map sounds like it was demolished back in the 50s. 00:16:45
Yeah, that's our best guess given like there's uh bulb and tube, uh, no, sorry, knob and tube wiring in there that I can't thought 00:16:51
was in that time period I see. 00:16:56
And the rest of the house has been sort of. 00:17:02
Haphazardly updated and you can see from the report there's nothing to code. I mean it has open Romex throughout the house. 00:17:04
There's it's not, it's not, you know in the walls or anything. 00:17:09
The uh. 00:17:17
The Foundation. There's pictures in this report are, you know, substandard at Best I. 00:17:18
The plumbing. 00:17:24
Doesn't work. The hot water heater, it says in here he was afraid to fire up because there's a gas line that's laying in the grass 00:17:27
in the back of the house and he didn't want to, you know. 00:17:32
Turn the gas on and to see if it worked or not I. 00:17:38
Yeah, I mean, the current condition is unlivable, right? So we couldn't get a loan on the House. We had to pay cash for the house 00:17:43
to give you a sample of how bad it was. 00:17:47
But that doesn't deter us. We love the location. We love the character of the house. And here I can give you. 00:17:52
Can I approach that? 00:17:59
Please take them to our staff person. 00:18:01
So that. 00:18:07
Escape your colleague is. 00:18:15
The four houses that we've lived in. 00:18:17
Prior so the first one is a 501 early. It's a fantastic Victorian I. 00:18:19
The second one, 176 Lighthouse. 00:18:28
The third one is our current residence at 49017 Mile. 00:18:34
And then my mom's house at 2/17/19 and the reason I bring this because these were all in the same condition. 00:18:37
That 107. 00:18:43
Was in. Couldn't get a loan, all the paid cash to secure the the home and then. 00:18:45
An entirely new modern infrastructure run underneath they're keeping. 00:18:52
The character of each house and you know some of the the things that. 00:18:57
I I particularly enjoy doing is adding. 00:19:03
Features or continuing features in homes that have. 00:19:06
Historical Legacies Our house at 17 Mile. 00:19:10
For example, the floors, it was built the same year as NPS, so the floors are Philippine mahogany and they're beautiful floors 00:19:14
when we added the addition. 00:19:19
That current home, We literally sourced them from the Philippines to keep that consistency in the house. The 176 lighthouse. 00:19:24
The entrance to the house, which you can't see from this picture, has a beam that was from the reconstruction of. 00:19:32
The Mayflower Church here in Central so that that being. 00:19:42
That even came from the church when they they redid it, I. 00:19:47
So that was just to sort of give you a sense of our goal for the house is to keep the sort of. 00:19:51
Charm of the house, but run a modern house underneath so it's good for the next 100 years. Yeah. Thank you. That helps a lot. 00:19:56
And you have a couple of minutes and Mr. Seavy, I think you'd like to say something. 00:20:04
Can't see any Pacific Grove Historic Preservation Consultant. On page 11 you will see under weather under Southside elevation 00:20:14
demolish unpermitted. 00:20:20
And undated additions. 00:20:26
Those are under permitted undated additions to the rear of that building envelope. 00:20:28
I noted that. 00:20:34
Thank you. 00:20:36
OK, I will now open to public comment. 00:20:40
And again, this is regards to. 00:20:43
107 14th St. 00:20:48
Welcome. 00:20:50
Good afternoon. I'm John Moore, the residential designer, not architect on the project and I just wanted to say that one of the 00:20:53
comments. 00:20:57
That was continued from last meeting. Was somebody called in on the chimney? 00:21:02
And so I just wanted to address that. So it came up and so that original chimney is part of the original house and be in the front 00:21:06
of the house or the right side of the house. And we didn't want to destroy it. We didn't want to extend it with the 2nd floor and 00:21:11
all that stuff so that it's going to be converted to a gassed enter. 00:21:16
So at that point we no longer have to meet the 2 foot and 10 foot building code. So it'll remain as is and less structural. 00:21:22
Engineers say we have to embrace it in some way but other than that it won't be extended up and that was just some a comment from 00:21:28
last time. And other than that we've worked hand in hand with Mr. Seavy on this project from day one knowing it was historical 00:21:33
and. 00:21:39
Did several iterations with him and until it met all the standards that in this report and what he wanted to see. 00:21:46
Thank you very much. 00:21:55
Other public comment. 00:21:56
Do we have any virtual public comment? 00:21:59
I see one hand rate as. 00:22:03
The the first speaker will be Inga Lorenzen Dahmer. 00:22:05
Thank you Chair and tone. 00:22:11
Two other Members at this point. 00:22:14
I really appreciate. 00:22:18
This applicant's. 00:22:19
Care. 00:22:21
With his other homes especially and his appreciation of history and and detailed work and bringing things back to life. 00:22:22
That's commendable. 00:22:35
And there's always that, and I find the poor little cottage pretty much. 00:22:38
Overwhelmed. 00:22:47
By the massive big box that is looming behind it. 00:22:49
It would be lovely if it weren't so massive and and because the little cottage is pretty much lost. 00:22:58
But. 00:23:07
I understand his needs. 00:23:12
So thank you very much. 00:23:14
The next speaker will be Lisa Gianni. 00:23:26
Thank you. 00:23:30
I have. 00:23:33
Really serious concerns about this project. 00:23:35
I'm glad somebody who really appreciates PG's cottages. 00:23:40
Owns it, but I hope some changes can be made it it's such a significant. 00:23:45
Very historic vernacular home and the phase two historical report. 00:23:51
It doesn't recognize that it will be clearly visible. The addition will be proposed addition from all angles and from the coastal 00:23:58
road and and the coastal trail, as can be seen with the benefit of story poles and netting. 00:24:07
So I hope that that can be reduced in in some way to not overpower the cottage it. 00:24:16
Definitely is overpowering as planned here and regardless of being to the rear. 00:24:26
And and seems to me not consistent with Secretary of Interior standards. 00:24:34
The the issue about the chimney. 00:24:41
Being. 00:24:46
Too close to to the roof. 00:24:49
But only if it were a wood burning. 00:24:51
Fireplace and and the. 00:24:54
Statement that that it will be converted to a gas burning fireplace. It seems to me should be in the. 00:24:59
Conditions of approval. 00:25:07
For for. 00:25:10
Everybody. 00:25:12
Concerns. It's so that it would not. 00:25:15
Ever in the future. 00:25:19
Be a fire hazard. 00:25:22
I I strongly object to the failure to require tribal monitoring during ground disturbing work. In addition to the archaeological 00:25:25
monitoring that specified, the project is located in a designated archaeological site. 00:25:32
Designated. 00:25:40
Cal Monterey 109 ON Archaea archaeologist Gary Burstini's map in the city's 2005 Monitoring and Mitigation report for the Phase 00:25:42
Two Wastewater Collection System Improvements Project and Lovers Point Dry Weather Urban Runoff. 00:25:50
Project that the city must have that I. 00:26:00
I only have it because. 00:26:05
Doctor Bruschini gave me a copy and I don't share it because it has locations. This is the ancestral home of the Lone Kosano and 00:26:07
Esalen Nation. 00:26:13
And they would always request our. 00:26:19
Tribal monitoring. 00:26:23
And the Coastal Commission would. 00:26:26
Would require that if. 00:26:29
If they were still in charge here, and I certainly hope the city will live up to that. So please do not approve the project as 00:26:31
presented and please require tribal monitoring. Thank you. 00:26:37
Thank you. 00:26:45
I see no other hands raised. 00:26:49
All right. Then I will close public comment, bring it back to us for discussion. 00:26:51
And I'm going to start with you, Mr. Steers. 00:26:58
Yeah, I'm not sure if this thing is on or not. It's hard to tell. 00:27:07
It's on. 00:27:10
That's all. OK, there it is. 00:27:12
Yeah, I'm. 00:27:17
Generally. 00:27:18
Disposed to approving the project I see that the windows. 00:27:22
The new Windows are gelled 1. 00:27:27
Wood clad. 00:27:30
That they are large. 00:27:33
Undivided windows and the the historic part of the house has a bunch of. 00:27:37
Windows that are divided up into small squares in different ways. 00:27:43
I wonder if we could get a little closer to the original character of the house. 00:27:49
But you know that. 00:27:54
I guess I'm in favor of this, yeah. 00:27:56
Yeah, Lida. 00:28:01
I'm glad we're saving the little house. My biggest objection are really my only objection to it is that. 00:28:11
Just looking at the house and what's going to happen, I just feel that the little houses cottage is going to be so overpowered and 00:28:18
we're going to miss. 00:28:23
Everything from the small and. 00:28:27
Are when we go by it or see it, it's not going to be the small part, it's going to be the add-on that that we see. 00:28:30
That that's my main concern. 00:28:38
Well, I have a number of things written down. 00:28:45
I do find the story polls that are there right now. 00:28:49
Kind of confusing. I'm not sure that they're. 00:28:51
Quite accurate, so I'm using the architectural drawing mostly to. 00:28:54
Kind of form my opinions. 00:29:00
The one thing I thought might be more interesting, you know that. 00:29:05
If you look at the peak of the original house, and then you look at the peak of the new addition there, they don't line up. 00:29:10
And so it's. 00:29:17
I kind of like the idea that the whole house, the whole addition maybe didn't line up instead of bringing it to the edge. And I 00:29:20
understand that gives you more square footage to bring it to the edge of the original house. 00:29:25
But it it kind of went through my mind that the whole new addition maybe could be just offset a little bit. 00:29:32
Making the the peaks of the roof. 00:29:38
Make a little more sense. But then I thought, Oh well, maybe I'm the only one that'll see that when I walk by, maybe nobody will 00:29:41
notice. I don't think that I. 00:29:46
The new addition, even though it's tall but but it sits back far enough, I don't see that it's going to detract so much from the 00:29:51
original house. 00:29:55
I think it sits right out there in front and that's that's really what you're going to see. 00:30:00
Yeah, I had a note that the part being removed was. 00:30:07
Unpermitted additions from some point in time? Oh. 00:30:11
I have a note about metal railing. 00:30:16
On the back porch, upstairs balcony, porch, metal railings. 00:30:18
Instead of wood railings. 00:30:25
I think it'd be more in character with the time period if they were wood, or at least had the appearance of wood. 00:30:27
I'm a little concerned about drainage between the two buildings, but I have the feeling that the. 00:30:36
Contractor will address that you're going to have. 00:30:42
I did have a concern too about the chimney and I would like to know. 00:30:46
Even though it's going to be converted to. 00:30:50
A gas stove now. 00:30:53
Will whatever goes into the top be? 00:30:56
Safe. I mean, there has to be something that goes up there to make everything, you know, because it's so close to the roof. Can I 00:30:59
be assured that there's. 00:31:03
Safety involved in that, even though now it's going to be gas. 00:31:08
I see it's nodding here. May I answer that for you? 00:31:12
Anything having to do with safety and building will be covered under the building code. So when John Keel does his when, when it. 00:31:17
You know if this goes through approvals, it then goes on to the building department. 00:31:27
All everything that is built will have to be built by the building code. So no. 00:31:33
They would not allow. 00:31:39
If it were to continue as a wood burning stove and if that were against code, which? 00:31:41
Which it is they he wouldn't allow it. So they're they're what they're doing is correcting that and bringing up to building code. 00:31:45
And John will double check that and it wouldn't be approved unless it was safe. And most of that is actually for drafting because 00:31:51
the draft for you need to be able to get the air. 00:31:57
To draw the smoke out of the chimney where it's not as necessary for those. 00:32:04
With high efficiency gas units so. 00:32:10
That's your it will be covered in the building departments. Less of a planning, it's more building. 00:32:13
Thank you. And then my last question. 00:32:19
I don't like listening to myself is regarding the tribal monitoring and I know that you have notes in here about that and. 00:32:24
I want to be sure that that that all requirements are covered with regard to the, you know, breaking up of the land. 00:32:32
That that there is somebody that's standing by, there's somebody checking on. 00:32:40
Everything that's being done when the ground is. 00:32:45
Dug into. I used those words. 00:32:51
So could I get somebody to speak to that? 00:32:55
Sure. 00:32:58
First of all, I'm part Native American, so it's going to be. 00:33:02
I'm sorry, I'm part Native American, so it's going to be correctly. My grandmother, who lived the 17th, is Navajo. 00:33:05
So. 00:33:13
Yeah, I didn't even know that was a part of it. Being a teacher. My wife's a science teacher. I'm a teacher. We're actually 00:33:14
looking forward to that part, you know, making sure it's done right. We'd love to see if there's anything where we're in. No 00:33:18
timeline here we have a. 00:33:23
A couple of years before our daughter, you know, leaves the house. 00:33:28
So we'd love to see if there's something there, right? So I'm happy to do a stipulation where tribal, you know? 00:33:32
Relationship or monitoring or whatever, that known place you used to describe it. Happy to to sign off on that because we're going 00:33:39
to do that anyway. 00:33:43
OK. And the? 00:33:48
There was one other thing. 00:33:50
On your comments together, roof alignment was to be conforming with the setbacks. 00:33:53
To sort of because everything right now you can't even walk between you talk about drainage. 00:34:00
My roof runs off onto Deb and you know Steve's house right now and they've addressed it on their side, but that was why we did 00:34:04
that and the wood. 00:34:09
Totally agree. We had the. 00:34:15
The see through railing for their view but now that we have like the story pulls up we can see you know we got up I. 00:34:17
Steve and I went into the bedroom, so having a wood railing is not going to be a visual. 00:34:24
Problem for them. 00:34:30
But when we originally did it, we weren't sure until we actually could see it. 00:34:31
OK. Thank you. 00:34:34
So do we have other comments from here? 00:34:40
Well, at this point I would ask for a motion to approve, but I would like to, to add, you know that we include. 00:34:45
Tribal monitoring and. 00:34:53
The use of wood for the railings. 00:34:57
Make a motion please do OK, I'll move that. We approve the project as submitted with the additional. 00:35:03
Uh, stipulations that. 00:35:13
Tribal monitoring. 00:35:16
All tribal monitoring that's required. 00:35:20
Be in the conditions for approval. 00:35:24
And that the and that the wood, the railing on the balcony not being metal but be would. 00:35:30
Do we have a second? 00:35:38
I'll second. 00:35:40
Do we do we do a roll call vote now or do we just vote? 00:35:42
All right. I say all in favor of this project with the two conditions that we place on it. Please raise your hand. 00:35:52
All right. So a vote of three, zero with two recusals and congratulations and we look forward to. 00:36:00
Seeing this little house looking great in the future. 00:36:09
Thank you very much. 00:36:13
All right, the next item is. Let's bring in our. 00:36:22
People from outside. 00:36:26
I'm in. Then they have to go out again. 00:36:39
All right. We're on to item 8B. This is regarding 215 chestnut. 00:36:49
And do we have a staff report please? 00:36:55
Yes, we do. 00:37:10
Hi and good afternoon Chair, HRC members and members of the public. 00:37:14
I'm Laurel O'halloran, the planner, presenting to you today a historic determination for a property located at 215 Chestnut St. 00:37:18
The Subject property is located on the east side of Chestnut St. between Lighthouse Ave. and Short St. The site is developed with 00:37:26
an existing vernacular style single family dwelling construction in 1926. 00:37:32
The subject property is located in the Pacific Grove Edition Three neighborhood consisting of medium sized one and two-story 00:37:39
single family residents of varying architectural styles. 00:37:44
In May of 2018, the city contracted with Paige and Turnbull to conduct a Historic Resources Inventory survey on properties 00:37:50
identified as Historic Resources. 00:37:55
The information contained. 00:38:01
And the reports was based on a reconnaissance level survey. The reconnaissance level property survey consists of exterior visual 00:38:03
inspections from the public right of way and digital photographs of the subject site. 00:38:10
At the time, Page and Turnbull found the property to remain eligible for the Historic Resources Inventory on January 4th of 2024. 00:38:17
A phase one Historic assessment was prepared by. 00:38:23
Our qualified historian who is here, Kent Seavy. The information contained in his report was obtained through analysis of Pacific 00:38:30
Grove Heritage Society files. 00:38:34
The city's property files, historic newspapers, published reports, Sanborn and fire insurance maps and a physical on site 00:38:40
inspection. 00:38:44
Mr. Seabee concluded that the subject property should be removed from the city's Historic Resources Inventory. 00:38:48
Staff has received one letter from a neighbor in support of removing the property from the City's HRI and based on the Phase One 00:38:56
Historic Assessment prepared by our qualified historian Kent CV. Staff recommends the Historic Resources Committee delete the 00:39:02
subject property from the City's Resources Inventory. 00:39:09
This concludes my report. All right, Thank you very much. And do we have the applicant or owner? 00:39:18
President, Would you like to? 00:39:24
So, Madam Chairman and members of the committee, my name is Ted Hill. My wife Amy, and I purchased 215 Chestnut last spring in 00:39:30
2023. 00:39:35
We appreciate your time and consideration. I. 00:39:41
To sort of recap what I think you probably already know, there are two key criteria that need to be met to be included on the 00:39:45
historic resources inventory. One is integrity and the other one is historical significance. 00:39:52
And a thorough review by Mr. Seavy has uh. 00:40:00
Conclusively demonstrated that this property fails to meet either criterion. 00:40:05
As you know, there are 7 aspects of the integrity criterion Materials, Workmanship, Design, Location, Historical Event, Feeling 00:40:11
and Association and Setting. 00:40:16
The with regard to materials and workmanship, the front of the property which you've seen a picture of. 00:40:23
Really the the sighting was changed from the original vertical to horizontal, so that was completely altered. The windows are the 00:40:29
other major features. They were completely altered in a manner there was not in keeping with the original. 00:40:35
And in front a little bump out you can see on the left was added which apparently was not even permitted so that was also so 00:40:43
completely changed the the. 00:40:49
The view of the of this property, therefore the design is not the same as it was originally with regard to the location's. 00:40:55
It wasn't. 00:41:06
Appear on the town records until 1949. It's not a significant historic location. 00:41:09
There's no historical event. Nothing significant has occurred there. Nothing significant either with the feeling and association 00:41:15
or with the setting. 00:41:19
In its original form it was not a quote, particularly good example of a period or style End Quote. And now, and it's greatly 00:41:24
altered state, its integrity has been completely lost. 00:41:30
The With regard to the second major criterion, which is historical significance, Mr. Seeley observed that age alone does not 00:41:37
qualify a property for historical designation. 00:41:43
And as I've just stated, it does not qualify on on historical grounds. It has had multiple owners. 00:41:49
It was vacant for quite a long time. It's been used as a barn, as a garage, various purposes, but it is not historically 00:42:00
significant. 00:42:06
So therefore in conclusion. 00:42:11
We would appreciate. 00:42:15
Positive consideration to remove it from the historical resources inventory. 00:42:18
Thank you. Thank you. 00:42:23
And now I'll open to public comment. 00:42:27
Do you have anybody present that would like to speak to this project? 00:42:30
Please come forward. 00:42:35
Can't see me again, just briefly. 00:42:40
The project the building was originally we have in its own file. Unfortunately a photograph of it is a vertical board and vet 00:42:44
building at one point in time when it was done I figure mid 50s mid 60s they changed the exterior wall cladding. 00:42:52
The rest of the stuff that went on but. 00:43:01
Is that when the owners purchased? 00:43:04
They contacted. 00:43:08
The Heritage Society. 00:43:10
To get a plaque because it had been determined to be historic and the Heritage Society just said in point of fact that they didn't 00:43:14
qualify in fact and no one could tell anything about the historic nature of our house except that was billed a long time ago. 00:43:23
So indeed it was 213 to begin with and that's why when you go in the, you know, the Sanborn maps, the rest of that I have seen 00:43:34
1926. It couldn't be much earlier. 00:43:42
And it could have been moved to that location as well. We did move things for purposes. So it's. 00:43:50
Not what it claims it is. Thank you. Thank you. 00:43:57
Hi, my name is Pat Carroll and I'm the neighbor. I live across the street at 218 Chestnut St. and I just want to say that I 00:44:05
support removing from the Historic Resources inventory. 00:44:11
Thank you. Thank you. 00:44:16
Do we have anybody from the virtual audience? 00:44:21
Next speaker will be Lisa Ciani. 00:44:27
Thank you, I live very nearby. 00:44:31
The. 00:44:37
The home has been occupied for the 12 years that I've lived here. 00:44:37
I, as you know, I don't always agree with Page and Turnbull about property properties that they. 00:44:44
Recommend deletion from the HRI. 00:44:52
I'm really puzzled how they could get it wrong though about a property to remain on the HRI. 00:44:57
Because you know it's a visual. 00:45:08
Thing. 00:45:11
However it's it's a. 00:45:12
Very small. 00:45:14
Not not precious. Umm. 00:45:17
A house? What? Whatever its historic status and and I would just ask this. 00:45:22
The street, The neighborhood's. 00:45:30
Is full of historic homes and I do hope that the new owners. 00:45:34
Will. 00:45:41
Build, build something. I presume they plan that that that is in character with the neighborhood and and I wish them well in their 00:45:43
new home. 00:45:49
It's a wonderful neighborhood. Thank you. 00:45:55
Thank you. 00:45:59
The next speaker will be Inga Lorenzen Dahmer. 00:46:09
Thank you. 00:46:14
Well, siding and windows we know. 00:46:16
Things that can be changed back. 00:46:20
Forward, but one thing we can definitely say that is it's a large. 00:46:22
Crime lot. 00:46:28
With many, many mature trees on it. 00:46:30
And unfortunately, of course, this little cottage is going to be gone. 00:46:33
I expected demolishment and you know. 00:46:40
Pretty large new home. 00:46:44
Plans coming up soon and. 00:46:47
Page and Turnbull, I don't think really got it wrong, but. 00:46:54
We can see time marches on. Thank you very much. 00:46:58
I. 00:47:03
I see no other hands raised. 00:47:07
OK, I'll close public comment and bring it back for discussion here. 00:47:10
Well, I I have no problem with taking it off the list. I mean, they're even the larger homes and and more to them. 00:47:16
We have turned down on. 00:47:25
Because of I mean the the side is, the siding's wrong, the windows are wrong, and it's really. 00:47:28
It's too bad, but I I would be in favor of taking it off. 00:47:37
Thank you, Jennifer. 00:47:40
Based on everything we've heard and and read about, I'm willing to take it off. 00:47:45
Within here, yes, I would take it off. 00:47:50
I agree. I see no reason no good can come of leaving it on the historic inventory. 00:47:54
The. 00:48:01
Sanborn map. 00:48:03
It's on the Sanborn map going back as far as 1914. It is old enough, but that's all it is. It's really tiny. It's been changed a 00:48:05
lot. 00:48:09
How could you possibly incorporate this into a larger house, which is what somebody's going to want to do? No, I just take it off. 00:48:16
Well, I agree and this puts us back in that the dueling between Page and Turnbull and Kent CV. 00:48:27
And can't you know I'm going with you this time. I think Page and Turnbull was probably asleep on that particular one because it's 00:48:33
pretty clear that the siding has been changed, even though it's way back in the corner. Hard to see that it didn't look. 00:48:39
Particularly original to me and I'm looking from the streets, so. 00:48:46
I am fine with removing it from the HR I so with that in mind to any other discussion. 00:48:51
May we have a motion to that effect then, please? 00:48:59
I'll remove that. We approve the. 00:49:03
The applications to remove it from the. 00:49:07
Historic inventory. 00:49:10
Can we have? 00:49:12
I'll second so motioned by steers, seconded by greening. May I have a show of hands if we all agree that we should remove it from 00:49:13
the HRI? 00:49:18
All right, so the vote is 50 and. 00:49:24
We look forward to. 00:49:28
Whatever you do. 00:49:30
Try to save save those trees. 00:49:32
All right. The next item, I believe we have recusals again. Am I right? Do you have to be? You don't, but you do. OK. 00:49:41
I'm on the right side of the street with this one. 00:49:52
No, I'm glad. I know you're out. 00:49:56
Just by a road with my walk. Oh my gosh. Yes, we lose our audience now, too. 00:50:00
Oh boy. All right, our next project. This is regarding 116 and 116 1/2 15th St. 00:50:09
And the issue is. 00:50:20
To put all or none or part onto the HRI. 00:50:22
And do maybe have a staff report and welcome Hunter. 00:50:28
Good afternoon, Chair Anton and Committee members. The items before you is a historic determination for 116 15th St. and 116 1/2 00:50:32
15th St. Both cottages are on the same parcel located in the Pacific Grover Treat. 00:50:40
Three PGR zoning district. 00:50:49
The Historic Resources Committee conducted an initial historic screening at the April 26, 2017 HRC meeting. 00:50:52
At that time, the committee determined that a determination of ineligibility could not be made. 00:51:01
This recommendation was forwarded to the community Community Development Director Mark Broder. 00:51:07
WHO also found that the determination of ineligibility could not be made and that a phase one historic assessment is required. 00:51:13
The applicant has submitted a Phase one historic assessment prepared by Dana Supernowitz, which is included in this agenda packet. 00:51:21
Based on the conclusions of the Phase One Historic Assessment, staff recommends the HRC add 116 15th St. to the HRI. 00:51:30
And also based on those conclusions from the Phase One Historic Assessment, staff recommends that the HRC. 00:51:41
Not add 116 1/2 15th St. to the HRI. 00:51:49
This concludes my staff presentation. I'm available for any questions that you have. Thank you. 00:51:54
Why, thank you. And looks like we have oh, you have a question for him. OK. 00:52:00
Half the garage. 00:52:06
From the other house is also on this property, is it not or has it already been removed? 00:52:08
It straddles the property line. 00:52:16
Yeah, and. 00:52:19
That ought to be addressed as well. 00:52:22
So noted. 00:52:29
All right, so the architect is present and if you'd like to speak, please come forward. 00:52:34
Architect working with the owner, Patricia Sewell. At this point we're just trying to establish a determination about. 00:52:47
The designation of of. 00:52:55
The structures on this property. 00:52:58
In past experience, I've brought projects before that. Actually, we're not. 00:53:02
Formally determined to be historic. And when I brought them before you with our design plans, you said, well, what are you doing 00:53:06
here? So I think at this point, I just want to start by making sure. 00:53:11
Any proposed development on the property is is addressed to the appropriate. 00:53:17
Board. 00:53:25
So I really don't have a big presentation other than you know, hopefully you've looked at the the property and in the phase one 00:53:27
assessment. 00:53:31
Rick, you're making a point and the the carriage house that straddles the the two properties isn't really. 00:53:36
Addressed and it and it probably should be a. 00:53:42
I would say all of these structures are in pretty poor condition and they've been here quite a long time with a lot of deferred 00:53:47
maintenance issues. 00:53:51
From the reading the consulting historians report, he seems to identify that the front cottage on the right hand side of this 00:53:57
image has more significant than the rear significance in the rear one's. 00:54:04
Again, I'm really not here to to present any design to you today, but rather just to get a determination on on on the significance 00:54:13
of these structures. 00:54:17
All right. Any questions for him? 00:54:22
Right now. OK. All right. Let me open to public comment. 00:54:25
Nobody, president, but do we have a virtual comment? 00:54:30
Next speaker will be Lisa Gianni. 00:54:36
OK, just just starting off. I never did figure out why the background talks about. 00:54:43
307 Fountain Ave. 00:54:54
When this is. 00:54:57
116 15th St. 00:54:59
Maybe that's obvious to everyone else's. 00:55:02
And. 00:55:06
You know. 00:55:09
I would find them. I mean poor condition, deferred maintenance. 00:55:10
Really doesn't have a lot to do with historic. 00:55:17
Significance Um. 00:55:21
And I I. 00:55:24
Looks historic to me, That's. 00:55:27
That's about all I can say. I would hate to see them. 00:55:29
Be removed? 00:55:36
From the property. Thank you. 00:55:38
Any other public comment? 00:55:48
Next speaker will be Ingle Lorenzen Dahmer. 00:55:51
Thank you. 00:55:56
Well, I hope you get kind of the garage issues settled as whether it's front, back, in between, whatever. 00:55:58
I'm kind of unclear on the this whole concept, but I can see how the front one, especially with the windows etc is. 00:56:08
Certainly looks more historic to me. 00:56:20
Then the back. 00:56:26
I mean, it has. 00:56:28
It has quite a bit of character. 00:56:30
Oh man, I'm always so pleased. 00:56:33
If someone's going to add something. 00:56:36
To the historic resources inventory, I mean that's a new concept too so. 00:56:39
I just wish you guys would figure it out of what it is I'm not averse to. 00:56:47
Having one and not the other. 00:56:54
Year I have the 116 15th St. the front. 00:56:56
Be added. 00:57:02
And the back not but. 00:57:03
I think that would be great, but. 00:57:07
Figure it out. Thank you. 00:57:10
As you know, their hands raised. 00:57:16
All right. I'm going to close public comment and bring it back for discussion. 00:57:18
So Glennis, we'll start with. 00:57:24
And your thoughts, I I do think the. 00:57:27
The 116. 00:57:30
Is his should be on the historic? 00:57:32
The front cottage. The back one I think has had too much. 00:57:36
Too much alteration to it. As for the garage, I noticed that it matches exactly the one uphill the property uphill, but I didn't 00:57:41
quite know how to consider that. 00:57:46
So it's I don't know if it was half a garage or if. 00:57:55
It was a two separate garages. I'm not sure there is a concrete wall that runs along there. 00:57:59
But they're definitely on two different properties. 00:58:05
The garage so or carriage house or whatever you call it. So I don't know how we evaluate that. 00:58:09
The garage is 1 building with two cars, Yes, but one of the cars goes to the house next door. Yes. And one of them, and it's on 00:58:16
their property too. Yeah, next door is property. So I don't know how you. 00:58:22
Let's keep it. 00:58:29
No discussions here. Oh, sorry. 00:58:30
Rick, would you like to speak? 00:58:34
As Hunter well knows, I'm really familiar with this property crawled all over all these things. 00:58:37
And uh. 00:58:44
I agree that. 00:58:46
Cottage in Front, 116 15th St. 00:58:48
Uh, should remain on the OR should be placed on the historic inventory. I think it has a lot of character. 00:58:52
And was probably the earliest. 00:58:59
Thing on the lot, but. 00:59:02
We don't have any real proof of. 00:59:04
But the cottage in the back? No, it's not of the same quality. 00:59:07
And the garage, of course, the half of the garage that's on this property should not be on the historic inventory either. 00:59:12
Yeah, I go along with that. I agree that. 00:59:25
The 116 is fine. I am kind of curious about the carriage house at UMM. 00:59:28
It's interesting. I don't know the whole the whole concept is interesting, but I I would go along with putting 116 on and not 116 00:59:35
1/2. 00:59:39
Well, I went by a number of times and looked and I mean I sort of thought either all on or all off is kind of how I felt. I mean 00:59:47
they they even though the one in the back is not maybe in as good a condition, but what they've done to it like that little roof. 00:59:55
Addition on both of them. I mean, they've kind of done the same thing. 01:00:03
The windows in the front one are much nicer than the ones in the back. 01:00:08
So I'm sort of OK either way. Whether. 01:00:12
But I feel kind of like they should both be on or both be off. 01:00:15
My thought I I do agree with that. The only thing about the reason why I would not probably want them. 01:00:20
The the other one on is because of the windows and just the the house the way it is so. 01:00:28
But I I would go along with either on and off and at this point if we we talked about putting both of them on, I would probably 01:00:36
vote against it. 01:00:40
Well, and I mean we are trying to cull the herd, so to speak. 01:00:46
And keep the best examples of. 01:00:50
Houses that are on the inventory we've we've reduced it purposely to try to get rid of houses that have had a lot of. 01:00:53
You know, illegal work or work that was, you know. 01:01:01
Incorrect. And so forth. 01:01:06
But like I say, I could be persuaded either way. 01:01:10
Yeah, through the, through the chair. I would just like to point out that structures that are placed on the inventory do have to 01:01:13
meet the criteria for historic. So if if. 01:01:19
If it's found, and I I it seems like the historian didn't find that that met the criteria, I think you'd have to, you'd have to 01:01:26
find that it met the criteria to be able to. 01:01:31
To put it on the inventory, he found that the front house met the criteria and not the back house is what he found. 01:01:36
I'm fine either way. 01:01:46
So would somebody make a motion then? 01:01:49
See what happens. 01:01:52
I'll move that. 01:01:54
Approve the recommendation given to us by the. 01:01:57
Staff which is to. 01:02:01
Put 116 15th St. 01:02:05
On the historic inventory but not include. 01:02:09
116 1/2 the. 01:02:13
The cottage in. 01:02:16
And we'll also add. 01:02:18
For completion sake, the half of the garage that's on the property too, I don't know how to do that, but well, maybe we just 01:02:21
consider the garage. If it's not historic then we can do something to with it, but we can't, that's not on our. 01:02:29
Little recommendation here to deal with the garage, so I don't think we can make a recommendation that wasn't. 01:02:38
Dealt with here, I think you can say it as an aside. 01:02:45
But I don't think we can make it in the motion. I can't say it, OK? 01:02:50
Would I be correct on that? I mean the garage is not considered here in any of the work that we've. I don't believe that it was. 01:02:56
Garrett would be able to speak better than if it was mentioned in the phase two report. 01:03:03
But I think that right now you're focusing on those two properties that are. 01:03:08
Yeah, you're looking at since it's not like a removal or anything, you're you're kind of just picking. 01:03:14
We're putting this one on and not the other. 01:03:20
I think that it's fair just to. 01:03:23
To not. If you don't want it on your, it's OK not to say it, because it won't be going on. 01:03:25
OK, so we have a motion. We can leave off that last part. 01:03:32
We're a friendly group, aren't we? 01:03:38
Do we have a second to the motion? I'll second it. 01:03:42
All right. May I have a show of hands all in favor of? 01:03:46
Putting the front house on the HR I and not the back house. 01:03:50
Please raise your hands. 01:03:55
All right. So it's a 40 vote with one recusal. 01:03:57
Thank you. And we'll look forward to what happens to the garage. 01:04:01
All right. We have one more project here if we can bring Jennifer back in. 01:04:09
There she is. All right, the last one we're looking at today is 307 Fountain. 01:04:16
And may we have a staff report please? 01:04:23
Chair Anton and committee members. The item before you is a historic Determination for 307 Fountain Ave. 01:04:27
Located on Fountain Ave. between Laurel and Pine Ave. in the 1st Edition neighborhood, R4 Zoning District. 01:04:35
In May of 2018, the city contracted Page and Turnbull to review the city's Historic Resources inventory. 01:04:43
With the goal of providing a recommendation to the city on which properties should be removed. 01:04:51
From the HRI due to specific criteria and which property should remain on the HRI. 01:04:56
The Historic Resources Inventory Update Survey report submitted by Page and Turnbull provided a list. 01:05:03
Of properties recommended for deletion from the HRI and the Subject property was included on this list due to its loss of historic 01:05:09
integrity. 01:05:14
On February 5th, 2024, qualified historian can't see if you prepared a Phase One historic assessment for the subject property. 01:05:19
Which concluded that the property no longer retains its architectural character due to building modifications. 01:05:28
So, based on the page and Turnbull recommendation and the conclusion from the Phase One Historic Assessment by Kent, CV staff 01:05:35
recommends that the HRC remove. 01:05:40
3307 Fountain Ave. from the HIS The Cities Historic Resources Inventory. 01:05:46
This concludes my staff presentation. I'm available for any questions you may have. Thank you. 01:05:52
Thank you. I don't see anyone present, but do we have an applicant or owner? 01:05:57
Virtually would like to speak to this. 01:06:03
Victor Barclay will be the next speaker. 01:06:10
That is, we're looking for the applicant. He's, he's the applicant. 01:06:13
Victor, you may speak all right. Can you hear me OK? 01:06:27
Yes, OK. I really am just referring to the. 01:06:32
Reports done by Page and Turnbull and CV. My grandfather made major. 01:06:40
Changes to the home, I believe in the 1950s. 01:06:50
And. 01:06:54
The windows the. 01:06:56
It went from a Gable and. 01:06:59
Two different roof styles to three different roof styles. It has about a 500 square foot flat roof. 01:07:04
And then about 30 years ago. 01:07:11
We added a. 01:07:14
Umm, ramp in the front of the house for my grandmother. 01:07:17
So it. 01:07:23
In my understanding, from the 2 reports no longer meets the criteria for historic. 01:07:26
And designation. 01:07:34
All right. Thank you. 01:07:40
That's it from the applicant, right. Oh, OK, so that's it. All right. I shall now open to public comment. 01:07:58
The next speaker will be Lisa Ciani. 01:08:07
Thank you. Well now I understand my confusion on the last item because the background report. 01:08:13
For this. 01:08:23
Was on the last. 01:08:25
Agenda item and the background report for the last agenda item is on this one, so I would have loved to read that background 01:08:28
report. I didn't bother with this one. 01:08:33
I. 01:08:41
I obviously don't. 01:08:41
Think that this needs to stay on the HRI, but I do believe that the. 01:08:43
Agenda reports should be corrected to have the right information with each one. Yes, it does go down in the cities records. 01:08:49
Thank you. 01:08:58
I. 01:09:00
I'm sorry Garrett, I actually saw that and I forgot to call you. 01:09:04
Yeah, no problem. 01:09:09
I'll be more diligent next time. 01:09:11
I see no other hands raised. All right, very good. I'll bring it back to. 01:09:16
The HRC for comment. 01:09:22
I have no problem with taking it off, in fact I would be very much in favor of it. They have done so many things to the windows 01:09:25
and I think originally it was a nice. 01:09:30
A nice anti comb, but at this point I think there's just been too much done to it. 01:09:35
Thank you, Jennifer. 01:09:41
I agree. I think that the Commission on the Northside on its own with the flat roof should take it off the hi. And in addition 01:09:43
they added, it seemed like to me they added a Bay window on the but in addition to that. So it's really changed quite a bit from 01:09:49
what it originally was and I think it should come up. 01:09:55
I agree as well you can see on the. 01:10:05
Aerial view that the addition wraps around two sides of it, and it's two stories tall. The basement is a full story, too. 01:10:08
So yeah, needs to go. 01:10:17
Well, and I let's see that page and Turnbull has it on their deletion list and can CV agreed. 01:10:20
So we can't argue with that. So maybe we have a motion to delete 307 Fountain from the HRI please. 01:10:28
I make a motion to delete 307 fountain off the HRI. 01:10:36
2nd I'll second it. Yes. OK Motion by Beckett. Seconded by steers. Can we have a show of hands? 01:10:40
Those in favor of deletion. 01:10:48
I see five hands up, so the vote is 50. 01:10:51
To take it off the HRI. 01:10:55
And I believe that concludes our Business Today. 01:11:00
And unless somebody has something else, I will adjourn the meeting at 4:10. 01:11:06
And thank you all for your help today. 01:11:13
Thank you. Quick one. 01:11:16
That didn't happen. 01:11:19
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OK. I'd like to call the March 27th, 2024 meeting of the Historic Resources Committee to order. 00:00:23
And let's the records reflect that all members are present. 00:00:32
May we go to item two? Do we have approval of the agenda? 00:00:39
Thank you. 00:00:49
Motion by. 00:00:51
I'm going to say greening again. Grannis and second by Beckett and. 00:00:55
Can I have a? 00:01:02
Hands to approve the agenda, please. Yes. 00:01:04
All right. Thank you. The agenda is approved 520. 00:01:08
Nobody absent. Let's go to item 3, Committee and staff announcements. Do we have any committee announcements to begin with? 00:01:13
Seeing none, do we have any staff announcements? 00:01:22
Yes, I have one announcement very happy to announce that due to some very hard work and. 00:01:25
Taking on tasks that were above and beyond his position as an assistant planner, Garrett has been promoted to an associate 00:01:36
planner. So congratulations, Garrett, and all right, well deserved. 00:01:42
That's good news. I that's the first I've heard of it. Thank you. Good for you, Garrett. Thank you. 00:01:51
OK. Do we have any council liaison reports from Mayor Peak? Thank you for coming. 00:02:00
Members. 00:02:13
A few items that's going on right now. Council has been interviewing for City Manager, so we might have some announcements here. 00:02:15
In the not too distant future, the American Tin Cannery Hotel and Conference Center will be heard. It was appealed to the Coastal 00:02:25
Commission will be heard on April 11th and in Long Beach. 00:02:34
And there were modifications to the project. 00:02:45
The few other items Skate Park proposal for a pilot here in the parking lot. 00:02:49
Adjacent to the youth center was not approved but will continue conversations with Pacific Grove Unified School District's. 00:02:57
For a possible location, also a council approved. 00:03:07
Putting on the. 00:03:12
Ballot in November, a reduction of council from six to four members. That would be a five person council that is the norm across 00:03:16
Monterey County and the state. 00:03:22
And so let's see. And coming up next week, we're going to hear more about a proposal by the Monterey Bay Chinese Association for a 00:03:29
pavilion, which they've suggested in El Murray **** replacing the gazebo that has been deteriorating. 00:03:39
And last but not least, you'll hear more on next week we'll be talking about sewer fewer fees from M1 W. 00:03:52
Which have been billed out, I think bimonthly and the. 00:04:03
The sewer fees will now go on to the property tax roll, so stay tuned for that. 00:04:11
Thank you for your service. Thank you very much. Thank you for coming always. 00:04:17
The next item is general public comment. 00:04:24
This must deal with matters. 00:04:27
That are subject to the jurisdiction of the city and of the Historic Resources Committee. 00:04:30
And these have to be items that are not on the regular agenda today, so. 00:04:35
I will open first to general public comment from the. 00:04:40
Audience that's present. Would anybody like to speak? 00:04:44
OK. Do we have anybody from the virtual audience who would like to speak? 00:04:51
I see one hand raised, I'll allow, and the next speaker will be Lisa Gianni. 00:04:56
Thank you. I just wanted to remind everyone to please. 00:05:02
Not only speak into your microphone, but make sure it's turned on. I I wasn't able to hear Jennifer Bickett even though I saw her 00:05:08
lean forward to the mic. So. 00:05:13
Anyway. 00:05:21
As those of us out here in the audience really love to hear what you're saying. All of you, thank you. 00:05:22
Thank you for the reminder. 00:05:30
Any other public. 00:05:33
I see no other hands raised. 00:05:36
All right. The next item is the consent agenda. We only have one item on the consent agenda. 00:05:39
Do we have a motion? Well, I should ask, Does anybody want anything removed from the consent agenda? 00:05:47
Yes, excuse me, I was looking at the. 00:05:55
Regular agenda. 00:06:01
So the answer is no. 00:06:04
I don't have a consent agenda. 00:06:09
It's. It's here. 00:06:11
The first words are here. 00:06:13
And then it's this. 00:06:16
It's just down there. It's just the minutes. OK, OK. 00:06:17
Is there anybody from the the audience that would like to remove anything from the consent agenda? 00:06:23
I see no hands raised. 00:06:35
All right, do we have a motion to approve the consent agenda? 00:06:36
I approve the consent agenda. Thank you. Do we have a 2nd I'll second? 00:06:40
Say motion by Beckett, second by Greening. 00:06:45
And maybe have a vote to approve, just with a show of hands, please. 00:06:49
I see five hands. So that is approved 50. Thank you very much and we will move now to the regular agenda. 00:06:54
The first item. 00:07:03
Which was 8A. 00:07:05
Is regarding an architectural permit and coastal development permit for 107 14th St. Pacific Grove, so may we have a staff report 00:07:08
on that please? 00:07:12
Yes, and we have, it looks like we have two members that will be recusing today. 00:07:18
Yes, we have two weeks. 00:07:24
I hear myself on my. 00:07:26
2 recusals. 00:07:29
These are people that live within a very short distance of the project that have to be refused. 00:07:31
All right. And I will be presenting the report. Joe Sidor, Senior Planner was the the planner for this project and was not able to 00:07:39
make it today. So I will cover for him and I'll do the best I can. I'd like to start by saying this is architectural permit and 00:07:47
coastal development permit 107 14th St. two 3-0290. It was the notice of public hearing and the mailers went out on February 16th, 00:07:54
2024. 00:08:01
And the mailers? It was a 100 foot radius. On February 26th the applicant notified city staff that the story, polls and netting 00:08:10
had been installed. 00:08:14
The store polls and netting was verified by staff on February 26th and on March 5th city staff requested the applicant install 00:08:20
netting to show the exterior wall lines of the proposed development. 00:08:26
On the March 6th, the applicant inform City staff that the revised netting had been installed and provided photographic 00:08:31
confirmation. The city staff also confirmed the installation of the revised netting on March 7th and 12th of. 00:08:38
2024 I also want to point that out this was continued, which I'll mention again later. 00:08:45
For. 00:08:51
For doing story polls and netting from the last meeting. 00:08:54
If you give me a moment. 00:08:58
Get the Share My screen here. 00:09:01
All right, the project site is an interior lot located near the intersection of 14th and Ocean View Blvd. And an area consisting 00:09:27
of medium to large one and two-story residences in the Pacific Grove Retreat residential neighborhood and R3 PGR Zoning district. 00:09:36
The 1820 square foot parcel is currently developed with a 1108 square foot, one story single family. 00:09:46
Residents. 00:09:55
The proposed development would include a demolition of a rear addition comprising 770 square feet of the existing residents and 00:09:57
construction of a 1078 square foot two-story addition resulting in a 1416 square foot, two-story single family residence. 00:10:06
As shown at the top, the existing structure is nonconforming with regard to building coverage site. 00:10:16
Building coverage, site coverage inside and rear setbacks. 00:10:23
As proposed in the lower view, the project would correct these non conforming features and then the property into compliance with 00:10:26
all applicable development regulations. 00:10:30
These elevations so the existing and proposed Westview from 4th 14th St. 00:10:38
The phase two historic assessment prepared for the property concluded the proposed development would be consistent with the 00:10:49
Secretary of Interior Standards for Rehabilitation of Historic Buildings. 00:10:54
Phase one archaeological assessment prepared for the project by qualified archaeologists recommended pre construction sensitivity 00:10:59
training and archaeological monitoring during ground disturbing activities. Clinicians numbers 8-9 and 10 have been added to 00:11:05
address training and monitoring as well as inadvertent discovery of cultural resources. 00:11:11
That has proposed the project is categorically exempt for SEQUEL guidelines Section 15301 that's existing facilities and 15331. 00:11:19
Historic Resource Restoration and Rehabilitation. 00:11:25
Therefore, staff recommends the HRC recommend to the Planning Commission that they approve the architectural permit and coastal 00:11:33
development permit subject to the findings, conditions of approval and Class One and Class 31 categorical exemptions for SEQUEL 00:11:39
guidelines, Section 15301 and 15331. 00:11:45
I am here for to answer any questions if if need be. 00:11:52
Thank you very much. And now we'd like to hear from the applicant or the owner or maybe both. 00:11:57
Thanks for having me today. I'm James Ducker. I'm the owner. My wife couldn't be here today. We're both teachers. So I got the 00:12:09
short straw and had to be here. 00:12:13
Yeah, so 107 Fourteenth is our downsizing plan. We've been PG residents for 18 years. Our kids have gone through the PG schools. 00:12:19
We're down to our last kid to be gone in a few years. So we live on the asylum, our area now in a very large home, which has been 00:12:28
awesome over the last several years, but it's a little bit too big for two people and there's our downsizing plan, so. 00:12:36
We identify the project. We actually know the previous owners. We taught their kids at Stevenson and have a long, you know, 00:12:46
relationship with them through the Stevenson connection. 00:12:51
We love the cottage style of the house. As you see from the plans, we want to keep sort of that charm of. 00:12:57
Of the house. But that being said, we do have 4 kids that are going to be returning the visit as they grow older, so having the 00:13:05
extra space is going to be helpful. So the. 00:13:10
I think it's about 1100 square feet now. My directive to our architect, who I've worked with on all four houses we've owned in BG 00:13:16
over this time we've lived here, was to, you know, add the square footage about 300 square feet to add that two extra bedrooms and 00:13:22
the bathroom. 00:13:28
But to keep the charm right? And this was the plan that he came up with. 00:13:35
And we like. And part of that process was discussing this with our neighbors, especially our immediate neighbors. 00:13:40
Steven and Deborah Rose are the uphill away from the water neighbors. They have a two-story residence. Their primary concern was 00:13:48
their view from their bedroom to the ocean. So we accommodated that by reducing the square footage a little bit on the upper 00:13:55
section and adding a back deck that. 00:14:02
Gives them the sight line that they requested and they're supportive of our design. 00:14:10
After that downhill neighbor is a two-story resident. I think she's 104 now so she's kind of she's hard to to connect with but she 00:14:17
didn't express any concerns what we did talk to her briefly I. 00:14:25
And I have some Mike Strasser's my general contractor that I've used in our houses in the past, and he drew up a condition 00:14:34
assessment of the current structure, which if you've been there, you probably know how bad it is. I'm happy to hand these out and 00:14:40
also have. 00:14:45
The I took pictures of the four other houses that we've lived in. One is currently my mom's house on 17th. One house was our 00:14:51
original house here in PG and I think you can see from the theme of the houses. 00:14:59
We love PG, we love the architectural style and we want to keep that so. 00:15:06
That's kind of it and. 00:15:12
Do you ask me questions now or is? 00:15:14
We we may have questions for you. OK, you have one now. 00:15:16
Either one not right now you have a description of the. 00:15:20
Existing condition of the house or something, Yeah. So it's a called a property condition assessment. 00:15:25
From our general contractor, yeah, the. 00:15:32
Part of the back part of the house that you intend to demolish. Uh. 00:15:35
What condition is it in? I'd be interested to know if it's. 00:15:40
Historic or has it? Has it been modified a couple of times or what? According to Mr. Seavy, it was put together, if I recall 00:15:46
right, in the 50s or 60s. Oh, is that right? Yeah. So that back portion was added probably in two phases. It looks like there was 00:15:54
a bedroom added on and then a second bedroom added on. And the reason they're. 00:16:02
Probably two different. 00:16:11
Time periods is because of the foundation work. The foundation is really bad in all sections of the house. That's probably the the 00:16:13
biggest issue. 00:16:17
An 18 inch or a foot and a half difference between the front of the house and the back of the house. So that gives you a sense of 00:16:22
sort of the and it's a wood sill foundation, so there's no concrete underneath it. 00:16:28
Does that answer your question? 00:16:35
The back of the house. 00:16:37
Was the most original part of the house from 1887. 00:16:39
Sanborn map sounds like it was demolished back in the 50s. 00:16:45
Yeah, that's our best guess given like there's uh bulb and tube, uh, no, sorry, knob and tube wiring in there that I can't thought 00:16:51
was in that time period I see. 00:16:56
And the rest of the house has been sort of. 00:17:02
Haphazardly updated and you can see from the report there's nothing to code. I mean it has open Romex throughout the house. 00:17:04
There's it's not, it's not, you know in the walls or anything. 00:17:09
The uh. 00:17:17
The Foundation. There's pictures in this report are, you know, substandard at Best I. 00:17:18
The plumbing. 00:17:24
Doesn't work. The hot water heater, it says in here he was afraid to fire up because there's a gas line that's laying in the grass 00:17:27
in the back of the house and he didn't want to, you know. 00:17:32
Turn the gas on and to see if it worked or not I. 00:17:38
Yeah, I mean, the current condition is unlivable, right? So we couldn't get a loan on the House. We had to pay cash for the house 00:17:43
to give you a sample of how bad it was. 00:17:47
But that doesn't deter us. We love the location. We love the character of the house. And here I can give you. 00:17:52
Can I approach that? 00:17:59
Please take them to our staff person. 00:18:01
So that. 00:18:07
Escape your colleague is. 00:18:15
The four houses that we've lived in. 00:18:17
Prior so the first one is a 501 early. It's a fantastic Victorian I. 00:18:19
The second one, 176 Lighthouse. 00:18:28
The third one is our current residence at 49017 Mile. 00:18:34
And then my mom's house at 2/17/19 and the reason I bring this because these were all in the same condition. 00:18:37
That 107. 00:18:43
Was in. Couldn't get a loan, all the paid cash to secure the the home and then. 00:18:45
An entirely new modern infrastructure run underneath they're keeping. 00:18:52
The character of each house and you know some of the the things that. 00:18:57
I I particularly enjoy doing is adding. 00:19:03
Features or continuing features in homes that have. 00:19:06
Historical Legacies Our house at 17 Mile. 00:19:10
For example, the floors, it was built the same year as NPS, so the floors are Philippine mahogany and they're beautiful floors 00:19:14
when we added the addition. 00:19:19
That current home, We literally sourced them from the Philippines to keep that consistency in the house. The 176 lighthouse. 00:19:24
The entrance to the house, which you can't see from this picture, has a beam that was from the reconstruction of. 00:19:32
The Mayflower Church here in Central so that that being. 00:19:42
That even came from the church when they they redid it, I. 00:19:47
So that was just to sort of give you a sense of our goal for the house is to keep the sort of. 00:19:51
Charm of the house, but run a modern house underneath so it's good for the next 100 years. Yeah. Thank you. That helps a lot. 00:19:56
And you have a couple of minutes and Mr. Seavy, I think you'd like to say something. 00:20:04
Can't see any Pacific Grove Historic Preservation Consultant. On page 11 you will see under weather under Southside elevation 00:20:14
demolish unpermitted. 00:20:20
And undated additions. 00:20:26
Those are under permitted undated additions to the rear of that building envelope. 00:20:28
I noted that. 00:20:34
Thank you. 00:20:36
OK, I will now open to public comment. 00:20:40
And again, this is regards to. 00:20:43
107 14th St. 00:20:48
Welcome. 00:20:50
Good afternoon. I'm John Moore, the residential designer, not architect on the project and I just wanted to say that one of the 00:20:53
comments. 00:20:57
That was continued from last meeting. Was somebody called in on the chimney? 00:21:02
And so I just wanted to address that. So it came up and so that original chimney is part of the original house and be in the front 00:21:06
of the house or the right side of the house. And we didn't want to destroy it. We didn't want to extend it with the 2nd floor and 00:21:11
all that stuff so that it's going to be converted to a gassed enter. 00:21:16
So at that point we no longer have to meet the 2 foot and 10 foot building code. So it'll remain as is and less structural. 00:21:22
Engineers say we have to embrace it in some way but other than that it won't be extended up and that was just some a comment from 00:21:28
last time. And other than that we've worked hand in hand with Mr. Seavy on this project from day one knowing it was historical 00:21:33
and. 00:21:39
Did several iterations with him and until it met all the standards that in this report and what he wanted to see. 00:21:46
Thank you very much. 00:21:55
Other public comment. 00:21:56
Do we have any virtual public comment? 00:21:59
I see one hand rate as. 00:22:03
The the first speaker will be Inga Lorenzen Dahmer. 00:22:05
Thank you Chair and tone. 00:22:11
Two other Members at this point. 00:22:14
I really appreciate. 00:22:18
This applicant's. 00:22:19
Care. 00:22:21
With his other homes especially and his appreciation of history and and detailed work and bringing things back to life. 00:22:22
That's commendable. 00:22:35
And there's always that, and I find the poor little cottage pretty much. 00:22:38
Overwhelmed. 00:22:47
By the massive big box that is looming behind it. 00:22:49
It would be lovely if it weren't so massive and and because the little cottage is pretty much lost. 00:22:58
But. 00:23:07
I understand his needs. 00:23:12
So thank you very much. 00:23:14
The next speaker will be Lisa Gianni. 00:23:26
Thank you. 00:23:30
I have. 00:23:33
Really serious concerns about this project. 00:23:35
I'm glad somebody who really appreciates PG's cottages. 00:23:40
Owns it, but I hope some changes can be made it it's such a significant. 00:23:45
Very historic vernacular home and the phase two historical report. 00:23:51
It doesn't recognize that it will be clearly visible. The addition will be proposed addition from all angles and from the coastal 00:23:58
road and and the coastal trail, as can be seen with the benefit of story poles and netting. 00:24:07
So I hope that that can be reduced in in some way to not overpower the cottage it. 00:24:16
Definitely is overpowering as planned here and regardless of being to the rear. 00:24:26
And and seems to me not consistent with Secretary of Interior standards. 00:24:34
The the issue about the chimney. 00:24:41
Being. 00:24:46
Too close to to the roof. 00:24:49
But only if it were a wood burning. 00:24:51
Fireplace and and the. 00:24:54
Statement that that it will be converted to a gas burning fireplace. It seems to me should be in the. 00:24:59
Conditions of approval. 00:25:07
For for. 00:25:10
Everybody. 00:25:12
Concerns. It's so that it would not. 00:25:15
Ever in the future. 00:25:19
Be a fire hazard. 00:25:22
I I strongly object to the failure to require tribal monitoring during ground disturbing work. In addition to the archaeological 00:25:25
monitoring that specified, the project is located in a designated archaeological site. 00:25:32
Designated. 00:25:40
Cal Monterey 109 ON Archaea archaeologist Gary Burstini's map in the city's 2005 Monitoring and Mitigation report for the Phase 00:25:42
Two Wastewater Collection System Improvements Project and Lovers Point Dry Weather Urban Runoff. 00:25:50
Project that the city must have that I. 00:26:00
I only have it because. 00:26:05
Doctor Bruschini gave me a copy and I don't share it because it has locations. This is the ancestral home of the Lone Kosano and 00:26:07
Esalen Nation. 00:26:13
And they would always request our. 00:26:19
Tribal monitoring. 00:26:23
And the Coastal Commission would. 00:26:26
Would require that if. 00:26:29
If they were still in charge here, and I certainly hope the city will live up to that. So please do not approve the project as 00:26:31
presented and please require tribal monitoring. Thank you. 00:26:37
Thank you. 00:26:45
I see no other hands raised. 00:26:49
All right. Then I will close public comment, bring it back to us for discussion. 00:26:51
And I'm going to start with you, Mr. Steers. 00:26:58
Yeah, I'm not sure if this thing is on or not. It's hard to tell. 00:27:07
It's on. 00:27:10
That's all. OK, there it is. 00:27:12
Yeah, I'm. 00:27:17
Generally. 00:27:18
Disposed to approving the project I see that the windows. 00:27:22
The new Windows are gelled 1. 00:27:27
Wood clad. 00:27:30
That they are large. 00:27:33
Undivided windows and the the historic part of the house has a bunch of. 00:27:37
Windows that are divided up into small squares in different ways. 00:27:43
I wonder if we could get a little closer to the original character of the house. 00:27:49
But you know that. 00:27:54
I guess I'm in favor of this, yeah. 00:27:56
Yeah, Lida. 00:28:01
I'm glad we're saving the little house. My biggest objection are really my only objection to it is that. 00:28:11
Just looking at the house and what's going to happen, I just feel that the little houses cottage is going to be so overpowered and 00:28:18
we're going to miss. 00:28:23
Everything from the small and. 00:28:27
Are when we go by it or see it, it's not going to be the small part, it's going to be the add-on that that we see. 00:28:30
That that's my main concern. 00:28:38
Well, I have a number of things written down. 00:28:45
I do find the story polls that are there right now. 00:28:49
Kind of confusing. I'm not sure that they're. 00:28:51
Quite accurate, so I'm using the architectural drawing mostly to. 00:28:54
Kind of form my opinions. 00:29:00
The one thing I thought might be more interesting, you know that. 00:29:05
If you look at the peak of the original house, and then you look at the peak of the new addition there, they don't line up. 00:29:10
And so it's. 00:29:17
I kind of like the idea that the whole house, the whole addition maybe didn't line up instead of bringing it to the edge. And I 00:29:20
understand that gives you more square footage to bring it to the edge of the original house. 00:29:25
But it it kind of went through my mind that the whole new addition maybe could be just offset a little bit. 00:29:32
Making the the peaks of the roof. 00:29:38
Make a little more sense. But then I thought, Oh well, maybe I'm the only one that'll see that when I walk by, maybe nobody will 00:29:41
notice. I don't think that I. 00:29:46
The new addition, even though it's tall but but it sits back far enough, I don't see that it's going to detract so much from the 00:29:51
original house. 00:29:55
I think it sits right out there in front and that's that's really what you're going to see. 00:30:00
Yeah, I had a note that the part being removed was. 00:30:07
Unpermitted additions from some point in time? Oh. 00:30:11
I have a note about metal railing. 00:30:16
On the back porch, upstairs balcony, porch, metal railings. 00:30:18
Instead of wood railings. 00:30:25
I think it'd be more in character with the time period if they were wood, or at least had the appearance of wood. 00:30:27
I'm a little concerned about drainage between the two buildings, but I have the feeling that the. 00:30:36
Contractor will address that you're going to have. 00:30:42
I did have a concern too about the chimney and I would like to know. 00:30:46
Even though it's going to be converted to. 00:30:50
A gas stove now. 00:30:53
Will whatever goes into the top be? 00:30:56
Safe. I mean, there has to be something that goes up there to make everything, you know, because it's so close to the roof. Can I 00:30:59
be assured that there's. 00:31:03
Safety involved in that, even though now it's going to be gas. 00:31:08
I see it's nodding here. May I answer that for you? 00:31:12
Anything having to do with safety and building will be covered under the building code. So when John Keel does his when, when it. 00:31:17
You know if this goes through approvals, it then goes on to the building department. 00:31:27
All everything that is built will have to be built by the building code. So no. 00:31:33
They would not allow. 00:31:39
If it were to continue as a wood burning stove and if that were against code, which? 00:31:41
Which it is they he wouldn't allow it. So they're they're what they're doing is correcting that and bringing up to building code. 00:31:45
And John will double check that and it wouldn't be approved unless it was safe. And most of that is actually for drafting because 00:31:51
the draft for you need to be able to get the air. 00:31:57
To draw the smoke out of the chimney where it's not as necessary for those. 00:32:04
With high efficiency gas units so. 00:32:10
That's your it will be covered in the building departments. Less of a planning, it's more building. 00:32:13
Thank you. And then my last question. 00:32:19
I don't like listening to myself is regarding the tribal monitoring and I know that you have notes in here about that and. 00:32:24
I want to be sure that that that all requirements are covered with regard to the, you know, breaking up of the land. 00:32:32
That that there is somebody that's standing by, there's somebody checking on. 00:32:40
Everything that's being done when the ground is. 00:32:45
Dug into. I used those words. 00:32:51
So could I get somebody to speak to that? 00:32:55
Sure. 00:32:58
First of all, I'm part Native American, so it's going to be. 00:33:02
I'm sorry, I'm part Native American, so it's going to be correctly. My grandmother, who lived the 17th, is Navajo. 00:33:05
So. 00:33:13
Yeah, I didn't even know that was a part of it. Being a teacher. My wife's a science teacher. I'm a teacher. We're actually 00:33:14
looking forward to that part, you know, making sure it's done right. We'd love to see if there's anything where we're in. No 00:33:18
timeline here we have a. 00:33:23
A couple of years before our daughter, you know, leaves the house. 00:33:28
So we'd love to see if there's something there, right? So I'm happy to do a stipulation where tribal, you know? 00:33:32
Relationship or monitoring or whatever, that known place you used to describe it. Happy to to sign off on that because we're going 00:33:39
to do that anyway. 00:33:43
OK. And the? 00:33:48
There was one other thing. 00:33:50
On your comments together, roof alignment was to be conforming with the setbacks. 00:33:53
To sort of because everything right now you can't even walk between you talk about drainage. 00:34:00
My roof runs off onto Deb and you know Steve's house right now and they've addressed it on their side, but that was why we did 00:34:04
that and the wood. 00:34:09
Totally agree. We had the. 00:34:15
The see through railing for their view but now that we have like the story pulls up we can see you know we got up I. 00:34:17
Steve and I went into the bedroom, so having a wood railing is not going to be a visual. 00:34:24
Problem for them. 00:34:30
But when we originally did it, we weren't sure until we actually could see it. 00:34:31
OK. Thank you. 00:34:34
So do we have other comments from here? 00:34:40
Well, at this point I would ask for a motion to approve, but I would like to, to add, you know that we include. 00:34:45
Tribal monitoring and. 00:34:53
The use of wood for the railings. 00:34:57
Make a motion please do OK, I'll move that. We approve the project as submitted with the additional. 00:35:03
Uh, stipulations that. 00:35:13
Tribal monitoring. 00:35:16
All tribal monitoring that's required. 00:35:20
Be in the conditions for approval. 00:35:24
And that the and that the wood, the railing on the balcony not being metal but be would. 00:35:30
Do we have a second? 00:35:38
I'll second. 00:35:40
Do we do we do a roll call vote now or do we just vote? 00:35:42
All right. I say all in favor of this project with the two conditions that we place on it. Please raise your hand. 00:35:52
All right. So a vote of three, zero with two recusals and congratulations and we look forward to. 00:36:00
Seeing this little house looking great in the future. 00:36:09
Thank you very much. 00:36:13
All right, the next item is. Let's bring in our. 00:36:22
People from outside. 00:36:26
I'm in. Then they have to go out again. 00:36:39
All right. We're on to item 8B. This is regarding 215 chestnut. 00:36:49
And do we have a staff report please? 00:36:55
Yes, we do. 00:37:10
Hi and good afternoon Chair, HRC members and members of the public. 00:37:14
I'm Laurel O'halloran, the planner, presenting to you today a historic determination for a property located at 215 Chestnut St. 00:37:18
The Subject property is located on the east side of Chestnut St. between Lighthouse Ave. and Short St. The site is developed with 00:37:26
an existing vernacular style single family dwelling construction in 1926. 00:37:32
The subject property is located in the Pacific Grove Edition Three neighborhood consisting of medium sized one and two-story 00:37:39
single family residents of varying architectural styles. 00:37:44
In May of 2018, the city contracted with Paige and Turnbull to conduct a Historic Resources Inventory survey on properties 00:37:50
identified as Historic Resources. 00:37:55
The information contained. 00:38:01
And the reports was based on a reconnaissance level survey. The reconnaissance level property survey consists of exterior visual 00:38:03
inspections from the public right of way and digital photographs of the subject site. 00:38:10
At the time, Page and Turnbull found the property to remain eligible for the Historic Resources Inventory on January 4th of 2024. 00:38:17
A phase one Historic assessment was prepared by. 00:38:23
Our qualified historian who is here, Kent Seavy. The information contained in his report was obtained through analysis of Pacific 00:38:30
Grove Heritage Society files. 00:38:34
The city's property files, historic newspapers, published reports, Sanborn and fire insurance maps and a physical on site 00:38:40
inspection. 00:38:44
Mr. Seabee concluded that the subject property should be removed from the city's Historic Resources Inventory. 00:38:48
Staff has received one letter from a neighbor in support of removing the property from the City's HRI and based on the Phase One 00:38:56
Historic Assessment prepared by our qualified historian Kent CV. Staff recommends the Historic Resources Committee delete the 00:39:02
subject property from the City's Resources Inventory. 00:39:09
This concludes my report. All right, Thank you very much. And do we have the applicant or owner? 00:39:18
President, Would you like to? 00:39:24
So, Madam Chairman and members of the committee, my name is Ted Hill. My wife Amy, and I purchased 215 Chestnut last spring in 00:39:30
2023. 00:39:35
We appreciate your time and consideration. I. 00:39:41
To sort of recap what I think you probably already know, there are two key criteria that need to be met to be included on the 00:39:45
historic resources inventory. One is integrity and the other one is historical significance. 00:39:52
And a thorough review by Mr. Seavy has uh. 00:40:00
Conclusively demonstrated that this property fails to meet either criterion. 00:40:05
As you know, there are 7 aspects of the integrity criterion Materials, Workmanship, Design, Location, Historical Event, Feeling 00:40:11
and Association and Setting. 00:40:16
The with regard to materials and workmanship, the front of the property which you've seen a picture of. 00:40:23
Really the the sighting was changed from the original vertical to horizontal, so that was completely altered. The windows are the 00:40:29
other major features. They were completely altered in a manner there was not in keeping with the original. 00:40:35
And in front a little bump out you can see on the left was added which apparently was not even permitted so that was also so 00:40:43
completely changed the the. 00:40:49
The view of the of this property, therefore the design is not the same as it was originally with regard to the location's. 00:40:55
It wasn't. 00:41:06
Appear on the town records until 1949. It's not a significant historic location. 00:41:09
There's no historical event. Nothing significant has occurred there. Nothing significant either with the feeling and association 00:41:15
or with the setting. 00:41:19
In its original form it was not a quote, particularly good example of a period or style End Quote. And now, and it's greatly 00:41:24
altered state, its integrity has been completely lost. 00:41:30
The With regard to the second major criterion, which is historical significance, Mr. Seeley observed that age alone does not 00:41:37
qualify a property for historical designation. 00:41:43
And as I've just stated, it does not qualify on on historical grounds. It has had multiple owners. 00:41:49
It was vacant for quite a long time. It's been used as a barn, as a garage, various purposes, but it is not historically 00:42:00
significant. 00:42:06
So therefore in conclusion. 00:42:11
We would appreciate. 00:42:15
Positive consideration to remove it from the historical resources inventory. 00:42:18
Thank you. Thank you. 00:42:23
And now I'll open to public comment. 00:42:27
Do you have anybody present that would like to speak to this project? 00:42:30
Please come forward. 00:42:35
Can't see me again, just briefly. 00:42:40
The project the building was originally we have in its own file. Unfortunately a photograph of it is a vertical board and vet 00:42:44
building at one point in time when it was done I figure mid 50s mid 60s they changed the exterior wall cladding. 00:42:52
The rest of the stuff that went on but. 00:43:01
Is that when the owners purchased? 00:43:04
They contacted. 00:43:08
The Heritage Society. 00:43:10
To get a plaque because it had been determined to be historic and the Heritage Society just said in point of fact that they didn't 00:43:14
qualify in fact and no one could tell anything about the historic nature of our house except that was billed a long time ago. 00:43:23
So indeed it was 213 to begin with and that's why when you go in the, you know, the Sanborn maps, the rest of that I have seen 00:43:34
1926. It couldn't be much earlier. 00:43:42
And it could have been moved to that location as well. We did move things for purposes. So it's. 00:43:50
Not what it claims it is. Thank you. Thank you. 00:43:57
Hi, my name is Pat Carroll and I'm the neighbor. I live across the street at 218 Chestnut St. and I just want to say that I 00:44:05
support removing from the Historic Resources inventory. 00:44:11
Thank you. Thank you. 00:44:16
Do we have anybody from the virtual audience? 00:44:21
Next speaker will be Lisa Ciani. 00:44:27
Thank you, I live very nearby. 00:44:31
The. 00:44:37
The home has been occupied for the 12 years that I've lived here. 00:44:37
I, as you know, I don't always agree with Page and Turnbull about property properties that they. 00:44:44
Recommend deletion from the HRI. 00:44:52
I'm really puzzled how they could get it wrong though about a property to remain on the HRI. 00:44:57
Because you know it's a visual. 00:45:08
Thing. 00:45:11
However it's it's a. 00:45:12
Very small. 00:45:14
Not not precious. Umm. 00:45:17
A house? What? Whatever its historic status and and I would just ask this. 00:45:22
The street, The neighborhood's. 00:45:30
Is full of historic homes and I do hope that the new owners. 00:45:34
Will. 00:45:41
Build, build something. I presume they plan that that that is in character with the neighborhood and and I wish them well in their 00:45:43
new home. 00:45:49
It's a wonderful neighborhood. Thank you. 00:45:55
Thank you. 00:45:59
The next speaker will be Inga Lorenzen Dahmer. 00:46:09
Thank you. 00:46:14
Well, siding and windows we know. 00:46:16
Things that can be changed back. 00:46:20
Forward, but one thing we can definitely say that is it's a large. 00:46:22
Crime lot. 00:46:28
With many, many mature trees on it. 00:46:30
And unfortunately, of course, this little cottage is going to be gone. 00:46:33
I expected demolishment and you know. 00:46:40
Pretty large new home. 00:46:44
Plans coming up soon and. 00:46:47
Page and Turnbull, I don't think really got it wrong, but. 00:46:54
We can see time marches on. Thank you very much. 00:46:58
I. 00:47:03
I see no other hands raised. 00:47:07
OK, I'll close public comment and bring it back for discussion here. 00:47:10
Well, I I have no problem with taking it off the list. I mean, they're even the larger homes and and more to them. 00:47:16
We have turned down on. 00:47:25
Because of I mean the the side is, the siding's wrong, the windows are wrong, and it's really. 00:47:28
It's too bad, but I I would be in favor of taking it off. 00:47:37
Thank you, Jennifer. 00:47:40
Based on everything we've heard and and read about, I'm willing to take it off. 00:47:45
Within here, yes, I would take it off. 00:47:50
I agree. I see no reason no good can come of leaving it on the historic inventory. 00:47:54
The. 00:48:01
Sanborn map. 00:48:03
It's on the Sanborn map going back as far as 1914. It is old enough, but that's all it is. It's really tiny. It's been changed a 00:48:05
lot. 00:48:09
How could you possibly incorporate this into a larger house, which is what somebody's going to want to do? No, I just take it off. 00:48:16
Well, I agree and this puts us back in that the dueling between Page and Turnbull and Kent CV. 00:48:27
And can't you know I'm going with you this time. I think Page and Turnbull was probably asleep on that particular one because it's 00:48:33
pretty clear that the siding has been changed, even though it's way back in the corner. Hard to see that it didn't look. 00:48:39
Particularly original to me and I'm looking from the streets, so. 00:48:46
I am fine with removing it from the HR I so with that in mind to any other discussion. 00:48:51
May we have a motion to that effect then, please? 00:48:59
I'll remove that. We approve the. 00:49:03
The applications to remove it from the. 00:49:07
Historic inventory. 00:49:10
Can we have? 00:49:12
I'll second so motioned by steers, seconded by greening. May I have a show of hands if we all agree that we should remove it from 00:49:13
the HRI? 00:49:18
All right, so the vote is 50 and. 00:49:24
We look forward to. 00:49:28
Whatever you do. 00:49:30
Try to save save those trees. 00:49:32
All right. The next item, I believe we have recusals again. Am I right? Do you have to be? You don't, but you do. OK. 00:49:41
I'm on the right side of the street with this one. 00:49:52
No, I'm glad. I know you're out. 00:49:56
Just by a road with my walk. Oh my gosh. Yes, we lose our audience now, too. 00:50:00
Oh boy. All right, our next project. This is regarding 116 and 116 1/2 15th St. 00:50:09
And the issue is. 00:50:20
To put all or none or part onto the HRI. 00:50:22
And do maybe have a staff report and welcome Hunter. 00:50:28
Good afternoon, Chair Anton and Committee members. The items before you is a historic determination for 116 15th St. and 116 1/2 00:50:32
15th St. Both cottages are on the same parcel located in the Pacific Grover Treat. 00:50:40
Three PGR zoning district. 00:50:49
The Historic Resources Committee conducted an initial historic screening at the April 26, 2017 HRC meeting. 00:50:52
At that time, the committee determined that a determination of ineligibility could not be made. 00:51:01
This recommendation was forwarded to the community Community Development Director Mark Broder. 00:51:07
WHO also found that the determination of ineligibility could not be made and that a phase one historic assessment is required. 00:51:13
The applicant has submitted a Phase one historic assessment prepared by Dana Supernowitz, which is included in this agenda packet. 00:51:21
Based on the conclusions of the Phase One Historic Assessment, staff recommends the HRC add 116 15th St. to the HRI. 00:51:30
And also based on those conclusions from the Phase One Historic Assessment, staff recommends that the HRC. 00:51:41
Not add 116 1/2 15th St. to the HRI. 00:51:49
This concludes my staff presentation. I'm available for any questions that you have. Thank you. 00:51:54
Why, thank you. And looks like we have oh, you have a question for him. OK. 00:52:00
Half the garage. 00:52:06
From the other house is also on this property, is it not or has it already been removed? 00:52:08
It straddles the property line. 00:52:16
Yeah, and. 00:52:19
That ought to be addressed as well. 00:52:22
So noted. 00:52:29
All right, so the architect is present and if you'd like to speak, please come forward. 00:52:34
Architect working with the owner, Patricia Sewell. At this point we're just trying to establish a determination about. 00:52:47
The designation of of. 00:52:55
The structures on this property. 00:52:58
In past experience, I've brought projects before that. Actually, we're not. 00:53:02
Formally determined to be historic. And when I brought them before you with our design plans, you said, well, what are you doing 00:53:06
here? So I think at this point, I just want to start by making sure. 00:53:11
Any proposed development on the property is is addressed to the appropriate. 00:53:17
Board. 00:53:25
So I really don't have a big presentation other than you know, hopefully you've looked at the the property and in the phase one 00:53:27
assessment. 00:53:31
Rick, you're making a point and the the carriage house that straddles the the two properties isn't really. 00:53:36
Addressed and it and it probably should be a. 00:53:42
I would say all of these structures are in pretty poor condition and they've been here quite a long time with a lot of deferred 00:53:47
maintenance issues. 00:53:51
From the reading the consulting historians report, he seems to identify that the front cottage on the right hand side of this 00:53:57
image has more significant than the rear significance in the rear one's. 00:54:04
Again, I'm really not here to to present any design to you today, but rather just to get a determination on on on the significance 00:54:13
of these structures. 00:54:17
All right. Any questions for him? 00:54:22
Right now. OK. All right. Let me open to public comment. 00:54:25
Nobody, president, but do we have a virtual comment? 00:54:30
Next speaker will be Lisa Gianni. 00:54:36
OK, just just starting off. I never did figure out why the background talks about. 00:54:43
307 Fountain Ave. 00:54:54
When this is. 00:54:57
116 15th St. 00:54:59
Maybe that's obvious to everyone else's. 00:55:02
And. 00:55:06
You know. 00:55:09
I would find them. I mean poor condition, deferred maintenance. 00:55:10
Really doesn't have a lot to do with historic. 00:55:17
Significance Um. 00:55:21
And I I. 00:55:24
Looks historic to me, That's. 00:55:27
That's about all I can say. I would hate to see them. 00:55:29
Be removed? 00:55:36
From the property. Thank you. 00:55:38
Any other public comment? 00:55:48
Next speaker will be Ingle Lorenzen Dahmer. 00:55:51
Thank you. 00:55:56
Well, I hope you get kind of the garage issues settled as whether it's front, back, in between, whatever. 00:55:58
I'm kind of unclear on the this whole concept, but I can see how the front one, especially with the windows etc is. 00:56:08
Certainly looks more historic to me. 00:56:20
Then the back. 00:56:26
I mean, it has. 00:56:28
It has quite a bit of character. 00:56:30
Oh man, I'm always so pleased. 00:56:33
If someone's going to add something. 00:56:36
To the historic resources inventory, I mean that's a new concept too so. 00:56:39
I just wish you guys would figure it out of what it is I'm not averse to. 00:56:47
Having one and not the other. 00:56:54
Year I have the 116 15th St. the front. 00:56:56
Be added. 00:57:02
And the back not but. 00:57:03
I think that would be great, but. 00:57:07
Figure it out. Thank you. 00:57:10
As you know, their hands raised. 00:57:16
All right. I'm going to close public comment and bring it back for discussion. 00:57:18
So Glennis, we'll start with. 00:57:24
And your thoughts, I I do think the. 00:57:27
The 116. 00:57:30
Is his should be on the historic? 00:57:32
The front cottage. The back one I think has had too much. 00:57:36
Too much alteration to it. As for the garage, I noticed that it matches exactly the one uphill the property uphill, but I didn't 00:57:41
quite know how to consider that. 00:57:46
So it's I don't know if it was half a garage or if. 00:57:55
It was a two separate garages. I'm not sure there is a concrete wall that runs along there. 00:57:59
But they're definitely on two different properties. 00:58:05
The garage so or carriage house or whatever you call it. So I don't know how we evaluate that. 00:58:09
The garage is 1 building with two cars, Yes, but one of the cars goes to the house next door. Yes. And one of them, and it's on 00:58:16
their property too. Yeah, next door is property. So I don't know how you. 00:58:22
Let's keep it. 00:58:29
No discussions here. Oh, sorry. 00:58:30
Rick, would you like to speak? 00:58:34
As Hunter well knows, I'm really familiar with this property crawled all over all these things. 00:58:37
And uh. 00:58:44
I agree that. 00:58:46
Cottage in Front, 116 15th St. 00:58:48
Uh, should remain on the OR should be placed on the historic inventory. I think it has a lot of character. 00:58:52
And was probably the earliest. 00:58:59
Thing on the lot, but. 00:59:02
We don't have any real proof of. 00:59:04
But the cottage in the back? No, it's not of the same quality. 00:59:07
And the garage, of course, the half of the garage that's on this property should not be on the historic inventory either. 00:59:12
Yeah, I go along with that. I agree that. 00:59:25
The 116 is fine. I am kind of curious about the carriage house at UMM. 00:59:28
It's interesting. I don't know the whole the whole concept is interesting, but I I would go along with putting 116 on and not 116 00:59:35
1/2. 00:59:39
Well, I went by a number of times and looked and I mean I sort of thought either all on or all off is kind of how I felt. I mean 00:59:47
they they even though the one in the back is not maybe in as good a condition, but what they've done to it like that little roof. 00:59:55
Addition on both of them. I mean, they've kind of done the same thing. 01:00:03
The windows in the front one are much nicer than the ones in the back. 01:00:08
So I'm sort of OK either way. Whether. 01:00:12
But I feel kind of like they should both be on or both be off. 01:00:15
My thought I I do agree with that. The only thing about the reason why I would not probably want them. 01:00:20
The the other one on is because of the windows and just the the house the way it is so. 01:00:28
But I I would go along with either on and off and at this point if we we talked about putting both of them on, I would probably 01:00:36
vote against it. 01:00:40
Well, and I mean we are trying to cull the herd, so to speak. 01:00:46
And keep the best examples of. 01:00:50
Houses that are on the inventory we've we've reduced it purposely to try to get rid of houses that have had a lot of. 01:00:53
You know, illegal work or work that was, you know. 01:01:01
Incorrect. And so forth. 01:01:06
But like I say, I could be persuaded either way. 01:01:10
Yeah, through the, through the chair. I would just like to point out that structures that are placed on the inventory do have to 01:01:13
meet the criteria for historic. So if if. 01:01:19
If it's found, and I I it seems like the historian didn't find that that met the criteria, I think you'd have to, you'd have to 01:01:26
find that it met the criteria to be able to. 01:01:31
To put it on the inventory, he found that the front house met the criteria and not the back house is what he found. 01:01:36
I'm fine either way. 01:01:46
So would somebody make a motion then? 01:01:49
See what happens. 01:01:52
I'll move that. 01:01:54
Approve the recommendation given to us by the. 01:01:57
Staff which is to. 01:02:01
Put 116 15th St. 01:02:05
On the historic inventory but not include. 01:02:09
116 1/2 the. 01:02:13
The cottage in. 01:02:16
And we'll also add. 01:02:18
For completion sake, the half of the garage that's on the property too, I don't know how to do that, but well, maybe we just 01:02:21
consider the garage. If it's not historic then we can do something to with it, but we can't, that's not on our. 01:02:29
Little recommendation here to deal with the garage, so I don't think we can make a recommendation that wasn't. 01:02:38
Dealt with here, I think you can say it as an aside. 01:02:45
But I don't think we can make it in the motion. I can't say it, OK? 01:02:50
Would I be correct on that? I mean the garage is not considered here in any of the work that we've. I don't believe that it was. 01:02:56
Garrett would be able to speak better than if it was mentioned in the phase two report. 01:03:03
But I think that right now you're focusing on those two properties that are. 01:03:08
Yeah, you're looking at since it's not like a removal or anything, you're you're kind of just picking. 01:03:14
We're putting this one on and not the other. 01:03:20
I think that it's fair just to. 01:03:23
To not. If you don't want it on your, it's OK not to say it, because it won't be going on. 01:03:25
OK, so we have a motion. We can leave off that last part. 01:03:32
We're a friendly group, aren't we? 01:03:38
Do we have a second to the motion? I'll second it. 01:03:42
All right. May I have a show of hands all in favor of? 01:03:46
Putting the front house on the HR I and not the back house. 01:03:50
Please raise your hands. 01:03:55
All right. So it's a 40 vote with one recusal. 01:03:57
Thank you. And we'll look forward to what happens to the garage. 01:04:01
All right. We have one more project here if we can bring Jennifer back in. 01:04:09
There she is. All right, the last one we're looking at today is 307 Fountain. 01:04:16
And may we have a staff report please? 01:04:23
Chair Anton and committee members. The item before you is a historic Determination for 307 Fountain Ave. 01:04:27
Located on Fountain Ave. between Laurel and Pine Ave. in the 1st Edition neighborhood, R4 Zoning District. 01:04:35
In May of 2018, the city contracted Page and Turnbull to review the city's Historic Resources inventory. 01:04:43
With the goal of providing a recommendation to the city on which properties should be removed. 01:04:51
From the HRI due to specific criteria and which property should remain on the HRI. 01:04:56
The Historic Resources Inventory Update Survey report submitted by Page and Turnbull provided a list. 01:05:03
Of properties recommended for deletion from the HRI and the Subject property was included on this list due to its loss of historic 01:05:09
integrity. 01:05:14
On February 5th, 2024, qualified historian can't see if you prepared a Phase One historic assessment for the subject property. 01:05:19
Which concluded that the property no longer retains its architectural character due to building modifications. 01:05:28
So, based on the page and Turnbull recommendation and the conclusion from the Phase One Historic Assessment by Kent, CV staff 01:05:35
recommends that the HRC remove. 01:05:40
3307 Fountain Ave. from the HIS The Cities Historic Resources Inventory. 01:05:46
This concludes my staff presentation. I'm available for any questions you may have. Thank you. 01:05:52
Thank you. I don't see anyone present, but do we have an applicant or owner? 01:05:57
Virtually would like to speak to this. 01:06:03
Victor Barclay will be the next speaker. 01:06:10
That is, we're looking for the applicant. He's, he's the applicant. 01:06:13
Victor, you may speak all right. Can you hear me OK? 01:06:27
Yes, OK. I really am just referring to the. 01:06:32
Reports done by Page and Turnbull and CV. My grandfather made major. 01:06:40
Changes to the home, I believe in the 1950s. 01:06:50
And. 01:06:54
The windows the. 01:06:56
It went from a Gable and. 01:06:59
Two different roof styles to three different roof styles. It has about a 500 square foot flat roof. 01:07:04
And then about 30 years ago. 01:07:11
We added a. 01:07:14
Umm, ramp in the front of the house for my grandmother. 01:07:17
So it. 01:07:23
In my understanding, from the 2 reports no longer meets the criteria for historic. 01:07:26
And designation. 01:07:34
All right. Thank you. 01:07:40
That's it from the applicant, right. Oh, OK, so that's it. All right. I shall now open to public comment. 01:07:58
The next speaker will be Lisa Ciani. 01:08:07
Thank you. Well now I understand my confusion on the last item because the background report. 01:08:13
For this. 01:08:23
Was on the last. 01:08:25
Agenda item and the background report for the last agenda item is on this one, so I would have loved to read that background 01:08:28
report. I didn't bother with this one. 01:08:33
I. 01:08:41
I obviously don't. 01:08:41
Think that this needs to stay on the HRI, but I do believe that the. 01:08:43
Agenda reports should be corrected to have the right information with each one. Yes, it does go down in the cities records. 01:08:49
Thank you. 01:08:58
I. 01:09:00
I'm sorry Garrett, I actually saw that and I forgot to call you. 01:09:04
Yeah, no problem. 01:09:09
I'll be more diligent next time. 01:09:11
I see no other hands raised. All right, very good. I'll bring it back to. 01:09:16
The HRC for comment. 01:09:22
I have no problem with taking it off, in fact I would be very much in favor of it. They have done so many things to the windows 01:09:25
and I think originally it was a nice. 01:09:30
A nice anti comb, but at this point I think there's just been too much done to it. 01:09:35
Thank you, Jennifer. 01:09:41
I agree. I think that the Commission on the Northside on its own with the flat roof should take it off the hi. And in addition 01:09:43
they added, it seemed like to me they added a Bay window on the but in addition to that. So it's really changed quite a bit from 01:09:49
what it originally was and I think it should come up. 01:09:55
I agree as well you can see on the. 01:10:05
Aerial view that the addition wraps around two sides of it, and it's two stories tall. The basement is a full story, too. 01:10:08
So yeah, needs to go. 01:10:17
Well, and I let's see that page and Turnbull has it on their deletion list and can CV agreed. 01:10:20
So we can't argue with that. So maybe we have a motion to delete 307 Fountain from the HRI please. 01:10:28
I make a motion to delete 307 fountain off the HRI. 01:10:36
2nd I'll second it. Yes. OK Motion by Beckett. Seconded by steers. Can we have a show of hands? 01:10:40
Those in favor of deletion. 01:10:48
I see five hands up, so the vote is 50. 01:10:51
To take it off the HRI. 01:10:55
And I believe that concludes our Business Today. 01:11:00
And unless somebody has something else, I will adjourn the meeting at 4:10. 01:11:06
And thank you all for your help today. 01:11:13
Thank you. Quick one. 01:11:16
That didn't happen. 01:11:19
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